Z Review - DarkVoice 336 Tube Amplifier
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
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It all started when Linus tech tips didn't review the hd800's and I started searching CZcams for a Review, Now my wallet is fucked.
Ditto
Same....I only wanted to understand why my klipsch x12i with 50 ohm weren't loud enough using them through my phone....here I am trying to know which headphones and DAC/amp combination do I start with 🙄🙄 well there were no traveling this year anyway 🤷🏻♂️
I feel ya! I’m about to buy a pair of lcd 2c rip wallet
Lol....such a relatable comment
Linus is mad he didn't get your money instead
To save some fellow Europeans the long trip to Google.
300°F = 149°C
Yeah, this thing gets pretty hot.
and fellow asian
+Harry creasian and fellow everyone else in the world
+Aiden Gilmartin Wrap it in Bacon!
I think you mean the rest of the world!!
It seems way to dangerous this way.... They are secured in guitar amps for a reason
that romantic tube glow and that fucking blue LED lol
Same complaint I have with my xduoo TA20. I'm thinking about cutting out a square of dark window tint to try to dull it down a bit
I didn't know what to make of you at first but not only have you grown on me but I now hang on for your entire review. Awesome stuff.
The reason the volume dropped on the Darkvoice when you plugged the mad dogs in is because it's an OTL amp. This means that the amount of power it is able to output goes UP with higher impedance where as solid state would go down. So if you plug in a headphone with low impedance but high power demands, the OTL will output less power. Mad Dogs are orthodynamic and have low impedance and heavy power requirements so OTL is about the worst amp you could pick for driving that kind of headphone. OTL is best with high impedance dynamic headphones like the HD6x and HD8x. Headphones you would want to avoid with an OTL would be your orthos like HE4x,HE5x,HE6x, LCD's, Fostex etc.
Noted.
Will the Darkvoice cope ok, with 32 ohm Grados?
It wont output as much power as it would with a 600 ohm but its personal preference as to whether its enough.
the little dot I+ is a hybrid amp which means it's basically a transistor based amp with a tube for a small sound change/coloration (and for looks:D). It's good for low impedance and he-400i are easy to drive.
Not all tube amps are OTL. There are amps that are OTC (output transformer coupled) like the WOO WA6/WA6SE/WA22 and others.
I specifically bought the Little Dot 1+ because it is made to output high with low imp headphones.
Like a solid state amp, the amount of mW output is highest with lower ohm headphones, and lower with high ohm headphones.
After tons of research I ordered the Mullard M8100 tubes to go with it, just saying.. for a good warm tubey sound supposedly. :)
a 26 minute zeos review, is a christmas gift in itself.
+Lucky Dane I went in on this. His long videos are the best.
After watching this video I went and assembled myself Laconic Lunchbox Pro. It's a triple tube 20W Russian amp that you can buy made or make buying from the company the complete componentry for it. Mine actually increases low end. Using Fiio E10K I had +3db on bass in VB-Audio Voicemeter, now I have +1,5 on tube and it's still seems to be louder or punchier, or deeper probably because tube sound is softer to the ear and allows for higher volume without noticing it (I wish I had AB switch similar to your's).
Moreover, I found that it's not high impedance headphones that are usually the problem on tube, it's low ones. That amp is rated 32-150 Omh on low-gain and 150-600 on high but my headphones currently are 16 and they just sounded like badly EQed on low-gain mode and struggling with volume while they were fine on high-impedance mode. Obviously I couldn't just use it on high setting because it actually makes abnormal load on power circuit of the amp. Transformer gets slightly hotter which puts longevity under question. I had to change couple of resistors to allow more power on the output while in low-impedance mode to make things work with my beyerdynamics until I get at least 80 Omh version. Temp is still not perfect (~46,5°C on it's metal box in a hardly ventilated summer heat), but that workaround should be healthier for the transformer.
In other words tubes are perfect for fucking around with hardware. They are like custom PC builds compared to consoles (solid state amps). There's always headroom for improvement. Some people think (and I'll probably agree) that one should ideally make tube amp for particular specific headphone pair. And although you understand that what you hear on tube differs from the way track is meant to be, there is still a shock of how dead solid state sounds after tube even though definitely more accurate.
Finally someone that actually does a proper review. Well done.
yes! solid state has been designed to emulate the tube sound. The examples I'm thinking of are the old school CARVER TFM series of amplifiers, which to this day, are remarkable! The TFM means TRANSFER FUNCTION MODULATION. They're solid state amps designed to sound like tube amps.
tube rolling now that's a rabbit hole to go down.
So I should not get one hahaha. Should I get a Vali 2 😋
A single ended triode tube amplifier is the most beautiful thing you could ever hear.
The remark about the tubes almost adding a slight reverb is quite interesting to me. I've spent quite some time trying to make my soundcard sound as close as possible to another one that sounded somehow "better" to me, had a smoother, "glassy" kind of sound compared to a slight "harshness" of my other soundcards (because the one I liked had other issues that made it kinda unsuitable for my use). I tried everything, including changing opamps (didn't really do much). Eventually I figured out how to get very close to its sound - simply add a very slight hint of reverb. It somehow smoothed everything out and warmed it up. It seemed the soundcard with the sound I liked was kinda adding a bit of reverb to its sound as well.
About damn time you posted this. Been waiting a long damn time to see you review a real, hardcore tube amp.
By the way, thanks for the videos. You're quite entertaining and informative.
Knowing it gets so hot is a deal killer for me. Good info. Thank you!
Don’t you like hot things, big boy?
Are you kidding? I swear people have become such pussies. It's not 300° on the outside the damn tube smart dude
you are right :) I have a really nice ss guitar amp and 7 Marshall tube amps for that reason. Tube amps produce imperfect sound that are hard to reproduce.Nice review and happy holidays.
Very informative and enlightening facts there Z! That's why you're the best. Merry Christmas! Tubes/valve amplifier would definitely be my next must-buy. Remember when I was a kid when our b/w television and sound system was driven by tube/valves.
It's refreshing to see an honest appraisal of tube amps and even vinyl records by someone for whom the pastime of listening to music hasn't transcended into something that is more dependent upon faith than his own ears and for whom primitive and/or arcane equipment is more important to the aesthetic experience than the sound of the music itself. Well done.
Edit: I have gone onto Patreon and I am now going to patronize you.
+Dr. DAC Who doesn't?
great review! I debated between the darkvoice and the little dotmk2, but chose the mk2 for tube rolling options.
I'm debating picking one of these up to compliment my Schiit Asgard 2 but I am worried it won't give off enough power for my Audeze LCD-2. I know the OTL design is made for high impedance.
Thanks, you sold me on Solid. Trying to push my HiFiMAN HE-400i's to be a bit more clean.
Coolmfn Steve what did you end up going with? I have the same cans. Looking to drive them better.
What tubes did you end up upgrading to for this amp?
also, if you've tried it with the HD598, HE400i, 712Pro or X2's do you have thoughts on the pairing?
Merry Christmas Z....Cheers from BC Canada.....
Just found your channel today, could not be more happier that I did. I love it and probably will watch all of your back catalog. Keep it up, just might have to become a patreon.
Will Do
+Z Reviews Dude, I love your channel and videos, please keep them coming. Plenty of haters on CZcams, thought I would just share my appreciation. Great stuff. Thank you! Happy New Year!
Need to talk about Op-Amp switching at some point. I would love to hear your two cents on it.
whats a good recommendation for a beginner like me. need a good soilid state amp for headphones and computer minitor.
To comment on the perceived reverb, that's the even order harmonic distortion you're hearing. It's slightly delayed, but it is enough to be noticed, and all tubes do this. Fantastic and honest review!
+Lord Byron Yeah I am not crazy!
+Z Reviews If you replace the Chinese tubes with comparable German or American counterparts, this Even and Odd order harmonic distortion will decrease significantly. Hope this helps, thanks for making these videos!
Wow man, umm I just found you by streaming through diferent amplifier reviews. I'm hooked, you have my subscription and likes, such good reviews!!! O by the way I hate tube amplifiers just for the reason you stated. Awesome job man, I'm off for 3 days and look forward to watching many more of your videos!! Fantastic!!
Zeos can you buy an audiophile grade fuse for the darkvoice I have read a on a few forums out there that say there is a difference being made they range form 40-70 dollars. Also could you compare it to a decent Littelfuse brand ceramic fuse they range for a few dollars on ebay.
With the DarkVoice, is there a need for pre-amp if the receiver being used doesn't have one, and/or would one help? If the receiver has a phono input would the line from the DarkVoice go into a regular line-in input and not the phono input?
In terms of sound alone (not portability or anything else)would you rather have a dark voice or the Oppo HA-2?
so.... bout a moth ago timmy decide to push in the speakers and tweeters at my house. next time he come visit iwill have one of this waiting for him on a table... merry fucking xmas timmy !
ROTORHEADPR Damn! Thats why I don't let timmie's go near my audio equipment. I had a timmy flip the ear cup of my sennheiser headphone backwards, destroying them...
which power amp for speakers would you suggest to be connected to the darkvoice? (source: macmini>>DAC>>darkvoice)
Can you record the tube amp and solid state amp in AB test, with your headphone sound demo equipment? That would at least give people idea, whats the difference. Would be thankful if you can do that :)
+qwertyrewtywyterty Possible with this new one.
Z Reviews Thank you very much, im looking forward for the video
+Z Reviews Yes please do this
Great vids. Keep up the good work Z.
Can't wait to hear the Bifrost MB review!
You got this one right, hope you end up with some more tube reviews (find a bottlehead crack + speedball to pair with your painted 600s!). I've got an old school OTL tube amp (ASL MG-Head_OTL) with some incredibly rare and expensive NOS tubes and it continues to amaze me with it's sound and temperament. I prefer the HD600s on when it's just barely "warmed up", and HD650s when it's fully warmed up (6hrs+!!!!). You can't explain that -O'Reilly. It's black magic, and I think I'm finally ok with that.
Zeos why haven't you ever reviewed the bottlehead crack? If you've used it, darkvoice vs bottlehead? Which one's better
Would love to see a comparison between this and Little Dot MK2 MKII 6J1 X2 6N6 X2.
Any plan on doing a review of Little Dot MK2 MKII, Zeos?
this is an excellent review. I have begun enjoying this hobby. The stock Chinese tubes should be replaced.
remember the transistor radios? those came around in the 60's. at the time tubes were light years ahead of transistors in sound quality, but we got our first transistor based radios in the 60's.
Recreating the tube sound is like playing fake engine noises through your radio. Sure, it sounds similar but it lacks the magic of the real thing.
well said... faking something isn't the same as the real thing.
It’s so good you need to buy solid state amps.
You should review the Shure SRH1540 that would be great man. awesome review by the way.
I know valves (tubes in the US) are nice to look at they should really be in some sort of chimney, because they a 'microphonic', sound waves, say from nearby speakers, can vibrate the valve/tube and this modulates the output signal (slightly) which is noise.
You should revisit this review with some tube rolling. NOS American Manufactured Tung Sol 6SN7 tubes change the sound signature of the DV quite a bit. I have a Vintage Silvertone 6SN7GTB driver and an GE 6080 6AS7 power tube and the difference from the Chinese stock tubes is night and day on Senn HD-6XX.
this is a great system you got going man being able to switch between different stuff.
The problem is when testing headphones you cant do this switch system this is really only meant for amps/dac. For headphones you have no choice but to listen to them for hours and then listen to something else for hours and then decide.
poor Timmy
timmy gon' learn today!
NOT a guitar player.....
Fuck Timmy
I have found that studio tracks that have isolated recorded tracks then layered and masters sound best through the solid state amps. Unprocessed vocals and recording of an entire ensemble sound better with the Darkvoice to my ears.
debating if I should get a saga pre-amp or one of these :)
I really like your videos, entertaining and informative. Actually one of the main reasons I bought the LCDx's but I have to comment on the vinyl never sounds better...... Hum..... Well everyone's entitled to an opinion that's for sure. To me at least there is no doubt that some vinyl definitely sounds better than anything I can find on a digital high res format.
Now by far digital is what I listen to most usually Spotify or Tidal and it is because it's better for most things but I wouldn't say it beats out every piece of vinyl out there.
Merry Christmas Zeo
Would there be any gain in sound quality or any other possible benefits to adding a dac or dsp to the line out from a music recording interface then to a headphone tube amp. ??
Chain=
Recording Interface -- DAC -- Headphone tube amp.?
What does the AD1000X/2000X Sound like on a tube?
What its better the dark voice or the massdrop cavalli tube hybrid?
So should I buy this or the a-100 for myself for Christmas? Akg712. They're both on the list
Hey Z, serious question that's bugged me recently and I'm honestly curious. You've reviewed a few tube amps since getting this one and a few times I've noted you saying "this sound tuby-er than the darkvoice" etc. etc., but after all that you still own the darkvoice. So I'm wondering - have you not heard anything in the price range of the darkvoice, especially once in a blue moon when it's on massdrop, that makes you wanna upgrade your seemingly reference tube amp?
The bass drops because tube amps are capacitor coupled which doesn't allow any DC, this can affect low bass frequencies. A lot of solid state amps are DC coupled which means you can have a flat response down to 1Hz.
The real reason why most amplifiers are capacitor coupled is because DC voltages on the voice coil of a speaker creates nothing but heat. Heat + voice coils= dead speaker!!!!. While there are OCL (output capacitor less) amplifiers, you run the risk of burning out the voice coils if you drive the amplifier into clipping or if an output transistor shorts and stays switched on... In that case your speaker driver's will vaporize instantly.... Capacitors are an amazing passive device, depending upon where you place them in a circuit, they will perform different functions for example: if used in a power supply after the voltage has been rectified from Ac to Dc in parallel then it acts like a storage device that can accommodate fast delivery of power to what ever it's connected to... It also has the side effect of smoothing out fluctuating voltage ripples. If you were to say... Place the capacitor in series in the same power supply, your device will not function... So! That being said... A capacitor can store Dc and give it back for when it's needed, kinda like a battery (except that the battery has high internal resistance which = the inability to provide all of it's current instantly). But.... The capacitor can pass Ac voltage straight through it almost like it wasn't there... If there's a Dc voltage coupled with an Ac voltage and it's on it's way to your speakers, the Dc component of the voltage hits a brick wall when it gets to the capacitor... Remember that the sound that you hear from your speakers is because they are receiving Ac voltage. The signal that is fed into your amplifier is an Ac voltage but the amplifier is being powered by Dc voltage.... If Dc coupling went to the speakers then that would be like connecting a 1.5v AA size battery across the positive and negative wire's on a speaker or headphones... Try it sometime and you will either see the magic smoke come out or in the case of the headphones... See your hair transition into a form of magic smoke LoL... Although... I really don't recommend that you try it unless you are outside in a well ventilated area where you can't set anything else on fire LoL... Anyway, I hope that I have cleared up the topic of output capacitors... They are there for a reason and if the amplifier is really old like 20 years or more... You might want to get the capacitors replaced with new ones because they dry out or leak electrolyte and eventually take out the next device in line till magic smoke appears...
could i use a dragonfly red as a DAC for the darkvoice?
I can tell you why I like listening to amps for hours before making any decision on them. It's because when I am picking what amp I like, I want to know how it makes me feel after hours of listening. When I pick an amp to use while sitting on the couch and reading a book, it's different from what I want when I pick an amp for my desktop to listen to games and youtube videos. If I'm picking a couch listening headphone amp, I want it to be warm and fluid with a wider sound stage. When I am sitting at the computer playing games and watching youtube videos, I want it to be forgiving and accurate.
i admire the effort you put in this project. you definitely got my like + subscribe
ps:i m your new European fan :D
Hello,
I bought myself a pair of Beyerdynamic T1' s . I have a HK 970 amp. My question would be, would it be worth chaning the amp? Budget is not unlimited; in the price range of the Darkvoice. Other options other than Darkvoice? I was looking at the Schiit Valhalla 2, but ended up considering is not worth it. Thanks!
Just curious if I used this as a preamp into a topping a30 pro would sound good or is using it as a pre amp to just tune up my current setup a waste of money?
Could you please make a video on how to bias or if you can bias a DarkVoice 336 or 337 dual mono headphone amp. There isn't 1 video on this. I don't see any ports to bias my 337???
hello zeo i have a asus gaming laptop about 7 yrs old. i just bought a k7xx headphones what a good dac amp combo for gaming laptop?
+Z Reviews
What you said about vinyl sounding different I have turntable from 1970 and I like to listen some records on vinyl like this turntable -> Pre-Amp Pro-Ject -> RCA 3.5mm -> O2+ODAC -> Headphones I've same album as digital and vinyl some records I might hear slight difference and in some records I might not hear anything..but my point is that some of my friends go "ohh vinyl is far better than digital" but idk man..i think both are good. But I also don't have "audiophile" headphones yet..I've to get ones.
Do you think the WA6 is worth 2 times+ price?
How are you my friend .... I love your channel ... it is very useful with my English language is weak but I try to understand as much as possible because I love the field of acoustics .... I have a question my dear friend .... What is the best dac for darkvoice .336se ... knowing i have ifi micro idsd is it possible to pair with it and give good productivity or buy a separate dac.?
great review. i thin i might get one of these for myself
The cool thing about using a tube amp is that you can tube roll which is fun!
I just bought a Sennheiser Hd800 for 690€ . I know you are not a fan of it but this is my first High End Headphone ...would you suggest the DarkVoice 336 Tube Amplifier for the Hd 800 ?
really interesting looking at tube headphone amp reviews as a guitarist. i love playing through a tube amp and have for 15 years professionally. It seems like the same buzz words apply the only difference with guitar being the tactile element to the experience. Tubes feel as everyone says "warmer" and "real" but i think that's down to a level of imperfection and almost human error in a way. Tubes also sag though I honestly don't know know the technical reason for this, only the practical limitations. I'd be interested it hear if anyone could shed some light on valve sagging..?
Valve sagging…
Can you use this as a phono stage? with the line outs?
I thought you review was pretty on spot, for the most part. I try to tell folks who ask me about tube vs ss, that most are better off with ss. I myself, almost always prefer a tube preamp with a good ss amp. I have a blue circle tube preamp that does every thing a ss can do, only better. Of course it was $1600 15 years ago. These days there is less difference between tube & ss the better they are made. A good tube amp should not be overly warm or have soft bass . That was my grandfathers tube amp in the 1950's. However to get these qualitys they do not come cheap.
Have you had any dealings with neuhaus labs. Mainly there T2 tube amp/dac
Dear Zeos, could you review some gaming sound cards? I'm heard that the Creative Sound Blaster AE-5 is really good.
How are you splitting out of your DAC?
Fek, I just bought my first headphone amp. It's a Little Dot MKII. Oh well, I'll be in the market for a solid state soon
I’m really liking the sound from your review on the dark force 336. In your opinion dark force 336 vs Schiit Valhalla 2 for your sub $400 250ohm headphone amp? I’m torn after watching a few of your videos.
The darkvoice will give you a more tube amp sound and the Valhalla 2 has a more solid state sound if that helps. I don't own both but I ordered the darkvoice off drop formerly massdrop and I have schiit products so either way I'm sure you will be very pleased.
Are tube amps really second to solid state in the head phone world?
when your s.m.s.l did the "clicking" i automaticly looked to my sd-793ii^^ such a funny noise^^ why do they do this anyway?
can you try to get your musty hands on the Schiit vali 2? ☺
it is good for Audio technica W1000Z ?
I caved.. Finally grabbed the Darkness..sounds very clean. Liking the Raytheon 6SN7GT as preamp,, should do a headphones that play well with the Darkness video.
Edited
I have a very silly question. I know there are rca outputs at the rear. So what if I have speakers connected to the rca output when I plug in headphone? Will it stop playing sound via the speaker and output the sound via headphone, like a pc?
It passes through without stopping.
Interesting review. I hope you get this comment because I would hope that you can maybe review the Antique Sound Labs MG HEAD DT OTL MKIII
The name is awful and I have to copy and paste it all the time. This is the best tube headphone amp I have heard for less than 1000 bucks. The nice thing is that you can change between OTL and transformer coupled. So not only can you use it for your HD600s. But with the flip of a switch, you can also listen to planar headphones as well.
Why not use stone-axws as well?
zeos you got to try this 6sn7wgt brown base 3 hole plate in darkvoice 336 you won't believe it.
Have you tried tube rolling on this heard it changes the sound some. I was wondering if it actually changes the sound noticeably if you could throw some different tubes in there and let us know if it's worth the price of buying more tubes.
Well that is the question. How much is different worth.
Is that switch one way? I.e. Can I have two headphones plugged into the sides and switch between them when i flip the switch?
Yes
did u have any hum problems with DV?
i ve been solid state guy(O2, Magni, DC1). Last week i got WA2 and it gives out hum thru headphones. I disconnect all inputs and hum goes away. When i connect my DAC(modi,DC1,Fiio X3ii) hum comes back. There is hum even when dac is not powered on.
+mahee The splitter I use to A/B can add a hum but if I wiggle the wire a bit it grounds and goes away. This can happen with any amp and can be hard to track down.
would you recommend that solid state over a mayflower ODAC/amp? trying to get a first dac and pair of cans for my setup
+SuburbanDisposal I would.
I like how you say the sound is "different". My experience is that tubes and SS do sound different and both sound amazing considering good quality amps. I however seem to like the tube sound better. it seems to engage me somehow "differently" than SS and that's what I like better about it. So one is not "better" than the other, they just have different characteristics. Some people will prefer one over the other but both can be very good!
Do you have a recommended amp/dac combo for under $300 ish ?? I have a pair of AKG 7xx and Senn HD598s. I have an alright onboard amp/dac combo on my high end mobo but I know external will always sound better so it's time to upgrade!
Id grab the Aune X1s [amzn.to/29Pa3Cs] for that budget and those cans.
Diddnt know about the mono base on lp’s. Interesting
would I need a DAC or those this improve the sound good enough?
well a dac is always recommended. You need to feed this with something.
Transistor's tend to create distortion all over the audible spectrum. Tubes; although they may create more distortion than solid-state devices, tend to distort at harmonic intervals of the input signal. So, the output just doesn't sound as inorganic to the human ear.
Is there $200+ more in the tube vs an Asgard 2
To really get technical, what tubes do is compress the signal and add harmonics: most strongly odd-order harmonics, but even-order harmonics to a reasonable degree (which things like tape don’t do). It’s essentially distortion, but also makes them sound “richer” and “warmer”.
The bass dropoff isn’t exactly bass dropoff (although I suppose it depends how you look at it) but everything else going up in volume. If you imagine everything in the signal is now producing a harmonics series above it, you’re actually getting a mids and treble boost.. which kind of equates to a bass drop.
"But Timmy isn't afraid of audio gear." "He WILL be!"