Cyclone dust separators for shop vac dust collection
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- I explain how a cyclone dust separator works with a shop vac and also how well they work. This is the 3rd video in the series about shop vac dust collection hacks. Merch available at shirtpuppy.com
Shop vac dust collection hacks for shop vac dust collection systems
The RIG I DID dust collection part 3. Lost in the vortex
Episode 1- • Dust collection adapte...
Episode 2- • How to make short hose...
Auto vac switch - amzn.to/2Zd7DYL
Good vac filters - amzn.to/37SFudp
DUST COLLECTION ADAPTERS www.ebay.com/i...
My dude. I've watched probably over 50 cyclone videos getting ideas for my own shop vac/dust deputy setup and yours is easily the most informative and entertaining by a looooooong shot. I've seen videos three times as long that didn't offer even 1/10th of the info you provided. Simply amazing. Standing ovation.
Gushing out of the way, I plan on using a bag inside the shop vac, so I know I'll probably lose a bit of suction, but I'll be using PVC for my run from the cyclone to my hose boom arm, and the shop vac will be connected to the cyclone via a short 2 1/2" hose, so lose should be minimal compared to using all flex hose. The advantage is that my vac filter will probably take 100 years to clog to the level of yours after 800 gallons of dust.
Thanks again, I can't stress enough how helpful and entertaining your video was. 👏
Thank you!
What can I say? This is the best movie I've seen this year. Excellent Christmas present to us all. Great to see you back Tony.
Thanks Mark! Happy holidays! :)
I work in movie mill-shops where we often use mdf- a destroyer of sinuses and lungs. A coupla years ago i joind the Dust Deputy posse. I am a natural skeptic and was stunned, amazed, shocked, you name it, by the efficiency. I, soon after, switched from regular hepa filters, to the GoreTex ones. Phenomenal! More expensive by a bit, but it is probably the last one I will have to buy. Just tap, shake, and go! (Maybe a little compressed air, if I'm feeling frisky). Also, I used the double bucket set-up, with ballast in the bottom one. Works well. Added a side-car to my shop-vac, so they are always together. Thanks, and I am enjoying your work!
Thank you! I appreciate it.
Wonderful filmmaking! Smart. Funny. Original. A great way to learn and a blast to watch.
Thank you! I appreciate it.
Best depiction of a dust collector I've seen.
Thank you!
I have a lot of experience with hydrocyclones, basically the same except for liquid applications. The reason the models with the extended ceiling, as you described it works better, is because as the diameter of the cyclone decreases, the centrifugal forces within the cyclone increases generating greater separational force. Contrary to what most people think, the larger the cyclone, the less efficient the separational forces exist. We used hydrocyclones that were 4 inch diameter at the top with a 1.5 inch inlet, narrowing over a distance of 6 feet lone to a 1 inch outlet on both the top and bottom and generated an estimated 1000g of separation force within the cyclone.
Interesting. So several small cyclones could potentially work better than a large one on a large dust collection setup?
@@SlowandExpensive , yes. Large ones are sometimes used to separate large quantities of, or large pieces as a type of prefilter, or in situations where the separation doesn’t have to be optimized. Hydro cyclones are used to clean oil spills out of ocean water, but they aren’t large cyclones, but rather are lots of smaller diameter cyclones plumbed through manifolds that have controls to regulate the pressure of the inlet and outlet.
I put one of these on my central Vacuum a couple of years ago from an adapted old wetvac. and it works great, haven't had to clean the central vac yet.
Glad to see you back.
Thanks !
Enlightening video thanks for showing us ,i appreciate your editing skills im still working on mine on my channel ,right im going searching for a cyclone separator now ,ive liked and subd you Greetings from Wales UK . Ant
Thank you!
Glad to see you’re back to posting videos. I wish you would have included the Ridgid Duststopper in the demonstration as a comparison. Great video.
I had the Ridgid Dustopper on one my systems. Did not work as well as the Dust Deputy. Swapped it for another Dust Deputy, Duststopper sitting on a shelf.
Thanks Paul! A proper cyclone dust separator shootout video sounds fun! :)
I’ve used the Dust Deputy and a Ridgid 6.0 and a Ridgid 6.5 both for about 5 years for vacuum sanding drywall. I tested the Duststopper by hooking them up in tandem. Once with the Dust Deputy to the Duststopper then to the machine. Then I swapped the orientation Duststopper to the Dust Deputy then to the machine. I’ve done this test several times and every time the Duststopper misses about 1/3 of the larger particles and almost all the very very fine particles. The Dust Deputy catches almost all of both. I use a bag and a Dacron filter. I look in the machine once in awhile and if I see any dust at all I know there is a hole in the bag. I have it mounted on a cart for moving around construction sites and it has proven to be very effective at keeping the whole site cleaner.
Thanks for sucking up 800 gallons of dust ! We've all wondered exactly how much more effective the cyclones are. Now we have a number ! 100:1. Cheers ! Great video graphics too
Thanks!
Very impressive.... I just made one up this evening.... thanks for the video and God bless
Thank you!
You put a lot of effort in this production!
Indeed! It would be cool if more people got to watch it but, it is what it is.
I just watched several of your videos. Not only did I learn something, but I also got a good laugh too. Thank you for that. Oh, and I love the t-shirts you wear.
I'm glad you enjoyed them! The shirts I wear are available at shirtpuppy.com if you ever want one. Thanks for the comment :)
My dude! That editing is on POINT! Very well done, also thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
Helpful, entertaining and very unique. Now this is a high potential YT channel. Well done. Definitely getting one.
Thank you!
Welcome back Tony! I hope you are doing well. Really well edited video!
Hey Grant! Thanks, and all the best to you and yours! :)
A couple things I need to say about Rigid vacuums. They are not as powerful as Shop Vac rands of the same power. Also, replacing the filter is a messy job. When you snap off the filter, it leaves a big dust cloud. That needs to be redesigned.
I have one of the Dust Deputies - I did two things to improve the process - 1 - got a metal 10 gallon drum so the Dust Deputy would not tip over -2 - put a bug in the vacuum to keep the filter supper clean because I hate cleaning the filters.
if you do drywall you need the filter bag the vacuum because cyclone struggle to have the same efficiency with drywall dust as the do with sawdust.
I've been using a ridgid and a Dust Deputy for drywall sanding for several years and find the new ones with the neutral vane, or what ever they call it, don't work as well. It seems the fine drywall dust hits it, drops then gets caught in the airflow to the machine. However the top on the new DD is easily removed and you can cut the new "improved" piece off. You can then see the dust is forced to the outside as it spirals down to the pail; as it should.
The laser guns got the like.
Cool special effects! I can see that you love fooling around with the editing stuff. Must be DR?
Thanks!
The world of separation science used in industry far exceeds that which has tricked down to woodworking. Woodworkers would greatly benefit if some of the separation science practices were incorporated into the at source collection, separation, and filtration. In the eye of the cyclone there is an induced upward flowing vortex of air stripped of its heavier particulates (swarf) moving into the vortex finder (the bottom of the outlet tube) and into the negative pressure outlet and through the ducting to the filter, impeller, and to the positive pressure outlet of the motor. Particulates are traveling at speed in a descending spiral towards the lower discharge outlet. This brings a fair amount of airflow with it and this enters the collection chamber. This air needs to return to the induced upward moving vortex. In fact if the level of swarf rises and the collection chamber fills, swarf from the collection chamber can be re-entrained and sucked up through the discharge outlet and sent upwards and to the negative pressure outlet. The problem is the lower opening of the conical section serves as both downward and upwards airflow. This is more noticeable under the Thein baffle with swarf caked (at speed as it tries to exit the collection chamber) and plastered to the underside. Segregating the downward and upward return airflow from the collection chamber leads to more efficient separation. As the downward airflow exits the conical section and enters the much wider inside diameter of the collection chamber it speeds to the inner wall with centrifugal force. This swarf laden airflow spirals around loosing velocity and as it does more particulates fall out of the airflow. If the collection chamber had deceleration baffles (a circle of vertical paint sticks) the swarf will slow faster and drop to the bottom of the chamber. The airflow now moving slower doesn't suspend the particulates, they drop and the slower airflow stripped of its heavier particulates then is drawn up the center of the chamber and into the conical sections lower outlet, into the upward vortex, and to the negative pressure outlet and ducting. Attach a reticle baffle/support 4 inches below the conical section discharge. Attach a wider diameter tube (think protein jar) to its underside, this will serve as a segregation baffle. Segregating the faster downward swarf laden airflow along the inner walls from the slower flowing return airflow rising to the conical section. On top of the reticle baffle attach a smaller diameter tube (50% surface area of conical lower outlet) that goes through the conical section lower outlet and stops 2 inches form the vortex finder. The upward flowing induced vortex in the conical section will draw the collection chamber return air into th evortex finder and out. I have started 5 gallon bucket models. I extended the height of the collection chamber to 2 buckets tall to allow more time for separation and to make sure a full bucket is far from the suction of the upward moving vortex. I also REALLY like your idea of connecting 2 and 3 vacuum motors together into a "negative pressure manifold." I was impressed with the cfm, velocity, and static pressure of this arrangement. I am also using secondary air positive pressure air injection (PPAJ) in a push-pull ventilation of the swarf generations xone and PPAJ along the negative pressure path to serve as boosters. Positive pressure air jets in the conical section just after the inlet port serve to provide an air wash of the inner walls decreasing friction, directing the airflow and increasing velocity (Venturi). Industry has pneumatic conveyance down to a science. I'm just borrowing those principles. cboliver@live.com Oliver Wooddust Productions
Great demo...thank you!
Thank you!
Nicely done - love your videos.
Thank you!
Hello Mr. Tony, I'm happy to know you're up & well. Welcome Back!
Grrrrrrreat vid. presentation. Especially, the senic scenes.
1 question: Where can we purchase the 'Xmaster' dust collector that has the sunken top?
Thank you. Howard
Thanks Howard! I haven't seen the Xmaster for some time.
I tuned in to check out the information about dust separators, not be drowned out by background audio
Thanks for the video. Though, the cake test is invalid. Only the smallest particles ever make it through to the vacuum. By reusing the same batch of dust over and over, most small particles are removed from the earlier tests leaving fewer and fewer for each subsequent test. The ratio would likely have been much smaller if you used brand new dust at each iteration, thereby replenishing the small particles which would then contribute to a quicker accumulation of cake.
Thanks!
Look at the Dust Deputy models ! They are the best by far.
Dyson the second. Now you need to add more cyclones around the edge of the cover and tie them in and you have better filtration
The cyclone setup works so well I can afford to use HEPA filters because they last so long. To save headroom, like under a miter saw, Home Depot offers a flattish cyclone, the Dustopper, that works similarly. Dustopper's 2nd generation is more efficient and is less money than before.
Besides the street elbows what is different? I have the old version and it works good but I found the cone shaped separators to filter better. I use the Dustopper as a mobile unit due to the lower center of gravity and toughness in a construction environment.
@@williamganley4739 The newest version I'm aware of, about a year old, besides a broader sweep to the els, has a horizontal surface below the inlet to reduce turbulence in the bucket. A few hours ago, when I went to Home Depot's site to find the name of their device, the site showed a price of $39.95. If I'm correct the price was $45 several years ago. I also believe - as you seem to - that the vertical cyclones are more effective but the improvements make the Duststopper a closer second and in some situations the better choice.
I use a Dust Deputy and until this video I thought it was the only one with the tool inlet on the right (ccw airflow). I use mine mainly for sanding drywall and was interested in the Dustopper for the lower profile. My first test with the Dustopper was dismal but adding a gasket between it and the pail made a huge difference. It still missed the finer dust that the DD got but did a reasonable job. I use a Cleanstream filter and a bag in my Ridged 6.5 and the inside of the machine is usually cleaner than the outside. If I see any dust on the inside I know there is a hole in the bag.
@@williamganley4739 The second one I bought had an admittedly flimsy horizontal disc with a slit in in it to direct the inward flow into the periphery of bucket. That keeps the airflow of the inlet from fighting the airflow out. You're right, though, about the street els being an improvement.
So good, thank you for posting!!!:)
Thank you!
The best explanation of dust collection. I do have a question. Have you used the low profile version of the dust separater? If so witch one works? Im in the process of building a cabinet to put my table saw into and i want the shop vac and separater under the out feed table. I have a12'×20'shop space is a premium. Thank You for all the great videos you put out! And i can say that YOU Have a Great VIBE!!!!
Randy Weathington
Thanks Randy! I'm not sure which type you are calling low profile. If it's the dust stopper, I've not used it but I'd say that they all work to a certain degree. The price on the Chinese separators has gone up so much that I would recommend either the Dust Deputy or Dewalt also makes one and either of these are about $40 on Amazon. The container really just needs to be air tight. It doesn't have to be a bucket or a bucket shape it can be a box as long as it's air tight. I have two vacs hooked up to my table saw the big one is under the table and the separator is the xmaster which is similar to the two I've recommended and I have it fitted to an old shop vac container. The motor died and with the motor portion removed, I cut a circle made of 3/8 plywood that fits snuggly into the top of it and the separator is screwed to the center of it. It just fits under the outfeed table behind the saw with the hose bent over as it comes off the top of the separator. You can also build a box out of plywood. The Dust Deputy is even sold with a box design you can also find on Amazon but it is pricey. I don't use 5 gallon buckets because they are so tipsy. The shop vac container I use has wheels which is nice but you can put wheels on a box just as well. Once you have a separator you can experiment with the container. The shape isn't as important as it being air tight is. I also have a second smaller vac that is up by the ceiling that catches the dust that shoots off the top of the blade but the majority of the dust is captured under the table.
@@SlowandExpensive thank you for replying. I understand where you're coming from. Great clear explanation. Helps a lot. Randy
Do you have a link for the "X-Master" dust cyclone? I can't find it.
They are no longer available
In the first test, the lightest dust that stuck to the filter isn't returned to the test sample. The following tests do better because the worst material was already removed by the first. I agree that cyclone dust separators work great, but the tests aren't objective because the sample material changes. (I get why you did it that way, it just skews the results in the dust separator's favor.)
Yeah, the testing could have been more accurate by using freshly cut dust each time but that would have taken even longer. That part of the video took me two days to shoot the way I did it and the main idea was only to explain how and why cyclone separators work :)
things seemed to change a little after 4:20, really kicked in at 4:32
Cool video, where did you get your DoWhat t shirt?
Never mind, found it.
I have exact same the same setup but the coarse bits of wood are going in the bucket but the fine dust is going in the shopvac. Why?
If you have a similar setup and it seems like it should be working better the most common reason is an air leak at the container or somewhere in the hose.
Thanks for the reply, I will check it out.
Where do you buy an Xmaster cyclone separator
I got mine on ebay years ago for around $28. They are no longer available and haven't been for a long time. The last time I purchased a cyclone was also years ago and I bought them on ebay. I got three 3rd generation SN50's for $45 plus shipping straight from China. Now it's even difficult to find an SN50 (any model) and when you do they are almost as much as a dust deputy if not more. The price on the Dust Deputy has come down from what it used to be. You can get one from Amazon for $40 and it looks to be most similar to the Xmaster. There is also a Dewalt on Amazon for around the same $.
@@SlowandExpensive ty
what is your opinion of buying some plumbing parts, a garbage can and making your own separator. How well do they work?
I believe what you are describing is more of a chip separator that works with a conventional dust collector.
Have you tried out the harbor freight "Bauer brand" cyclonic sepators? I ended up getting one due to necessity and needing it right away as I'm grinding concrete in my basement and hoping to cut down on the dust making it to my filters so quickly.
Most the complaints it seems, seemed to have been corrected with the recent refresh they did to the design and the included lid is now much more "Ridgid" (had to haha) than the first generation.
I've not but I will check it out. Thanks
Gotta be a Trekkie
Space cadet :)
Add a hepa filter and vacuum bag. Your lungs will thank you. 🙄 Welcome back!
Thanks for the tip!
With all due respect, it looks like you have five (that I see) shop vacs for your system. For the cost of those vacs you could buy one system that would work about 4 times as well and take up a fraction of the space. I have a home made cyclone system that I built out of two 5 gallon buckets and cost less than 50 bucks. I already had the vacuum. But if I were going to upgraded I would no way add a second dust collector like this because they suck at a very low cfm.