From outside it kinda looks like the opposite, no offence 😅 But I mean, your country was founded by people who either were too progressive or too religious for Europe, so I guess both is true. 🤷♀️
@@yosoykibbles Catholic italians are a very peculiar case: they will hate on anyone and anything, traditions, customes and food habits, that isn't Roman Catholic. Then they will swear against God and all saints in 'swear words' that can't even be translated into other languages.
Thank you for saying this, for foreign catholics from more 'secular' countries Italy can be a bit a disillusion in that regard 😅 but that's everywhere where religion is more tradition than conviction I guess. People will be people.
as a comment under a video of Jimmy quello Bello said : "Italy is a country of religious *tradition*, not a religious country". That is so true because we have a ridiculous amount of churches, and traditions based on christinity. Most of us know how catechismo is like or some things about the Catholicism but we don't practice it. In the south there is this annyoing feeling of being overwhelmed by this sense of strictiness on this topic but they don't actually do any of that . What I always say is that Italy is at the same time the country closest to Catholicism and the farthest from it
I feel in the US, even people who aren’t particularly religious or devout still internalize quite a lot of Christian values and beliefs, even without the belief in Christ. Perhaps another factor too is that marriage in the US affords you a lot more rights and security. That may not be as much of an issue in Italy. Personally, if I was going to have a child with somebody, hopefully that would be with someone I would also enjoy being married to. Having a child with someone is definitely a lifelong commitment and while doable, I would hate that commitment done with the wrong person.
Me too, which is part of the reason I have not had any children, even though I would have loved to have a family-I point blank refuse to undertake that serious responsibility with someone I am not certain I want to partner with for life. And for me, I value taking those vows as an expression of commitment between the couple-no matter either party’s religion or lack thereof.
@@cendrillonatsea5006 being married not make you sure to be with someone for the rest of your life, not being married and have children doesn't mean you are not sure about the other person. maube you married and make children after a couple of year you are toghether while here you stay with someone 10 years, go living together fot a couple of years and then decide to have children. some then can married too. in italy the father have to give contribution for the child in both case.
Oh but those people who have children without being married definitely spend (or plan to) their lives together, they just don't do any ceremony. Is not that they're not certain they want to be together, they just don't value the paper so much as their personal commitment.
Yes, definitely that part about marriage in the USA affording more safety and security!! I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I'm American and live with my partner, but we are not married. I also have a chronic illness and I am disabled and not currently working because of it. At my most recent appointment with my specialist MD, it came up that my partner and I are not married, and I got a whole lecture about what would happen if my partner suddenly died and how my son and I would not be eligible for assistance from death benefits, and how if I became very sick and had to go to the hospital when he was not with me that the hospital could prevent him getting to me (assuming I am incapacitated), and then how he would not be able to help make any medical decisions for me, among other things. I definitely didn't realize the extent of potential situations it could affect, so now we must think about that versus the cost of losing my health benefit assistance due to his income. I wish there were other options available for couples.
@@OrNaurItsKat about partnership, yes, here too could be a problem, someone prefer civil union that give yo the same rights, or civil marriage. about children here the father has right and duty also without marriage. nowadays the "children reconnition" there is also without marriaga and if a father give problem, a judge can ask for a test, so father's duty and rights cannot be avoided. however i suppose a lot of ppl nowadays marry just for legal purpose
Basically: Name one Italian person you know who regularly goes to church on Sundays. (you can't) Name one Italian person you know who hasn't had sex before marriage. (you can't) Name one Italian person you know who doesn't say a blasphemous exclamation at least once a day. (you can't) [I'm joking, but everyday life where I live in Italy doesn't feel religious at all, except for the surprising amount of time dedicated to the Pope's speeches on tv, and the fact that they still teach Catholic religion in school (you can opt out). Religion is simply part of tradition and culture, nothing more. As it's normal in a secular society.]
That's actually quite shocking. As an American, I too had the impression that Italy is more religious than America since the Vatican is based there and all. However, the fact that it's hard to find people who attend church weekly over there while I have many friends who do and are super religious is very shocking. Granted, me and my friends come from a very religious culture, but it's very eye-opening.
@@intreoo I'm Italian, and I agree with what the other commenter said. No matter how much airtime the Pope gets on TV, religion is not a big deal anymore in our country.
No, you're wrong , it's not different in the south . I'm from Sicily and it is like that here too . In my niece classroom ( she's 13 ) most of the kids are born from parents that don't feel the need to be married . It's not a matter of south or north , it's a matter of city versus village . In a bid city like Catania for example is much more common than in a small village in veneto ( just an example ) .
@@Notturnoir Not necessarily cause older generations most of the times don't care if their kids are married or if they live with their partners and have children out of the wedlock . Nowadays grandparents do not care if their grandkids were born out of the wedlock . We don't give this huge of importance in marriage like Americans seem to give .
I agree with the marriage thing, especially in younger generations but i see a big difference in others things. The Festa di sant'Agata in Catania (it's a cerimony where they bring the statue of a saint around the city and people follow it, saying for who doesnt know it). In Catania is full of people of all generations and they take It seriously. There are many young people actually praying and you see they genuinly care. If you organize It in Veneto you wont see young people around, and if some show up it's probably just to make their older relatives happy.
@@Animalover-xm4lefrom what i see in my country, people are not tipically religious, they may be believers but they dont feel the need to follow every step and rule, its like the ones that are religious believe in god but dont do it in a traditional way(going to church, first marriae then children) i dont think its bad they have faith but dont care about church as an institution( obviously you have people that do but i dont see it very often, especially in the city or in younger people) and also everyone lives their religion in their own ways and freely(majority again, you always have the very religious family)
in the premarital courses of the Catholic church in northern Italy, out of 10 couples, 8 already live together, and 4 of them already have children... and this is not a problem for anyone
Another reason is that until a few years ago you needed to go through a 3-5 years of “separazione” to be allowed to file for divorce! That’s another reason why so many people didn’t get married if they didn’t have a solid motivation. Today the procedure has been simplified, but, compared to other countries, getting divorced is still a hassle.
Imagine going… I’m not going to marry this person but I don’t want to wait three and a half years for a divorce 😂. Yes, definitely not the mindset for marriage. Stay single.
Compared to usa i would describe my country Italy as a culturally religious country more than a religious country (as i would describe USA). Culturally religious means that we view religion as a national tradition, something that is part of the uses and customs of the place, often linked to celebrations (like parties, festivities etc) and other stuff that start from a religious pov but is nowadays mostly a common way to do things, to act, etc. I.e. the simplest international example i can think of is Santa K on Christmas, it started from a Christian pov but nowadays exchanging gifts is almost a global thing more than an exclusively Christian tradition. That's how we view religion. The way USA does it is is "too much" to us, if done here you would be seen as an extremist or a really old style old priest/noun (in the local community even priests are criticized if they refuse to adopt a more modern view of religion) Btw I'm from the South of Italy, in the North they're even more laid back from what I know
I think to describe the way the US does Christmas as the way the US does Christmas misses the fact that there is a huge diversity of ways of celebrating here. There are certainly religious people who keep it wholly religious and don't participate in the exorbitant gift-giving. There are also people who get angry if someone tells them to keep Christ in Christmas because they just want to have a party and don't want to be bothered with all that religious stuff and Christmas is a cultural holiday now, not a religious one. And then there are people who believe in other religions who may celebrate the cultural side and do trees and gifts and lights, or those who avoid taking any part in it.
@@erin6945Believing in a god or not doesn't automatically have to include also believing that all historical imperatives and moral judgments that come up in certain parts of a historical religious tradition are right or still apply to your current society. Like, you can believe in Jahweh and still believe that it's not a good thing for husbands to legally own their wife, as it's described in certain parts of the Torah/Bible. And even within, f.e., the Christian Bible there are many contradicting rules, because some parts of the texts were just written in a completely different time than others. It's quite possible to see that, accept it, choose which ideas and injunctions are important to you and discard any others, and still believe in that religion. Religion is more than just belief, its precepts reflect a historical era too.
@@erin6945 and you think religions have never adapted to modern ages till now? How do you think they survived so long? Honey we're old people, we've seen everything our religion had to offer, when they were persecuted in the Colosseum, when they persecuted other lands in religion wars, when they got rich and powerful and acted like sovereigns more than god's spokesperson, when they got entitled enough to sell indulgences, when they ignored and later accepted a dictator and made convenient laws of out it, when they started the people's pope propaganda.. we've seen it all. The Church changes with time because adapting to times is the only way to survive that long. So yes people demand adaptability to modern era from religion, that's way i.e. in the past divorced people couldn't get communion or have important roles in other people's weddings and now the priest doesn't bat an eye if a divorced person does it
I don't think people realize how religious Americans are. Many early colonist came to America for freedom of religion. This includes Puritans, Amish, Quackers, and lots of very religious groups. Even today, America has large Amish communities, Mennonites, Orthodox Jews, Catholics and hard core Christians. about three in four Americans said they identify with a specific religious faith. So we do have very religious people including Muslims, hindi and Buddhists. Lots of religious exist in the world and because America is a country built with different nationalities we tend to have lots of religious people.
It was wild moving from the US to the UK and finding out how different the Puritans are viewed. In school in the US we were just taught "oh they were a bit strict but very hard working and built the country." In the UK they're viewed as unhinged religious extremists
I am from Naples. All my grandparents didn't get married until they were 30. My parents got married at 36. My only friend who is already married is 41. It depends on the social context, not on north/south. What I have noticed, however, is how totally normal it is in America for various show business people, I'll take Justin Bieber as an example to name but I could name a thousand others, to talk openly about religion and their relationship with God. Try as I might, I cannot recall any current Italian public figure doing the same. The thing here would be judged strange and perhaps, even and unfortunate, 'ridiculous'.
I think for a lot of us europeans, talking about "relationship with god" in public is weird. Religion is considered to be private. Everyone interprets their religion differently, and then, in my country (germany) i think we're too "mixed" in a lot of places. Talking about youur specific faith as if it were a common sense fact in a room full of agnostics, atheists, catholic and protestants is just ... off.
my cousin once half-jokingly said: "Italy is the least religious theocracy in Europe". Our society has been shaped by centuries of Catholicism, the Pope still holds a lot of influence in our politics (i mean he's basically the equivalent of the British Monarch to us), and definitely, in the South, people *tend* to be more actively religious, but even so, most people are not religious at all. Most people don't pray, don't have the church as their central moral compass, haven't read the Bible etc... Blasphemy is seen as taboo yet people are blasphemous all the time, it's normal to the point that it's weird to not be blasphemous. There are even memes about certain regions (Veneto) and their...colorful use of blasphemy.
That's really interesting. Your English is immaculate (better than a lot of native speakers). But just for the sake of interest - the British monarch has no political influence. It's part of our constitution - that way we get to have a monarchy and a democracy. The last time the monarch was overly involved in government, his head got chopped off.
@@yippee8570 Aw thank you, i love speaking English as often as i can. When i compared the two figures i meant it more on how the people perceive them than what powers they actually have. In practice, the Pope has no power over the Italian government, only on the Vatican state, yet it holds a great deal of influence on the morality of the people, not just, but especially of Italy. I'll say, though, there is less tabloid gossip around the Pope, which is certainly pleasant because i could not stand the type of aggressive gossiping that the Royal Family gets about the Pope too.
"The least religious theocracy" I could not have put it better! Your cousin is a genius, I will definitely steal that one when I have to describe Italy's situation to foreigners.
Italian here and I find this cultural difference very interesting! From one side I think the “waiting a lot before marrying or even not marrying at all” comes from a kinda religious reason too, because there is the idea that marriage is something very very important that you are stuck with forever so you wanna be sure! (aka if you have a catholic marriage you cannot have a second one in the case of divorce because the divorce is only a civil thing not a religious one) But also divorce was illegal in Italy until like the 70s so there’s that it was truly THE commitment for life 😅 and even now that is legal, divorcing is such a pain and a mess that lots of people prefer to avoid the risk lol
I see you point on some aspects but I don’t understand the people date a very long time bc marriage as seen as something very important but they will happily have children out of wedlock. Like saying, have a child… no big deal but marriage is😂
@@soullessnight6539 uhm I don’t know how to explain it better because I’m not very religious myself so it was only a perception from people I know. To be honest I think the biggest reason is that divorcing is truly very difficult in Italy (and marrying very expensive), and legally there is the “conviventi” status where you can have the recognition of being a couple and other benefits but if you break up is way easier, so usually people do that before marrying.
@@soullessnight6539 it's called "more uxorio" meaning that effective couples have almost same rights and commitments of married ones, including children support, without all the expenses and legal fees coming from wedding ceremony and divorce. Moreover if you don't get married, your personal wealth stays nominal to you and you don't have to share once divided, except for alimony (prenup here are not legally valid, from what I know). That is a really big issue that comes into play, especially with tight finances and our bad job market with low wages. Basically it's "we're ok with how we are, we try and avoid being super broke if we split"
@soullessnight6539 it's not uncommon here in Italy to have children out of wedlock because, legally, there is no difference between a child born in wedlock or out. Both parents are legally bound the same way. Even if you decide to marry later on and have more children they are all legally the same. And, from a religious point of view, having children while unmarried is, I think, a "lesser" sin, divorcing your husband/wife will cause you not to be accepted for holy communion.
I was also a bit baffled by that comment 😂 I agree with the rest of the comments in their description of Italy, and the video by Kacie was a good discussion start, but like... yeah, of course having a child is a bigger commitment than marriage, isn't it so elsewhere?? 😂😂 Unless she meant to say the opposite, I'm not sure what she meant by that. If in the US they consider marriage a bigger commitment than having children, I... I don't even have words
I think it’s similar to the UK in that regard, which is always viewed as a more Christian country than the US. It’s really,,, not. Like, there are definitely leftover things from when it was a religious country, but they tend to be more cultural? Like, a lot of people get christened as young children but don’t get raised religious at all. There’s definitely a difference between those who identify as Christian and those who actually practice Christianity. Hell, most church schools are fairly secular on the whole, and a lot of non church schools still do religious things as more of a cultural thing. And I think that’s kind of reflected in marriage here too. Nobody I know is willing to marry someone they haven’t been in a relationship with for a minimum of five years. And we’re less marriage focused in general, very few people in my age range (18-25) are focused on finding a spouse. I’d even go as far as to say only about half were looking for relationships in any regard. And, as love island would suggest, we’re definitely less uptight than the US about number of previous partners.
This is spot on. Speaking as an italian, born and raised, my country is the same. I come from what's best described as ''the land of saints'' (region's called Umbria, neighbour of Tuscany where Florence is), birthplace of people like Saint Francis and Saint Benedict, yet the true amount of really religious people is close to zero. For people of younger generations, like myself, i know no one who actually follows the Roman Church and practices their faith in Catholicism. The only person i know that's quite religious is my paternal grandma, 96 years old, and yet she has absolutely no problem with the LGBTQ+ community and their rights (my best friend is bi and has a girlfriend, she's another granddaughter for her) , couples living together before marriage, having kids before marriage, abortion and so on. I'm an atheist (and a scientist) myself.
It sounds similar to Spain. In Spain (or at least in Madrid) everything is very culturally Catholic. You get a week off for Easter. There's a casual assumption that everyone is familiar with Catholic traditions, etc. But few people actually go to church or care about religion. Whereas in the US, people are much more aware of religious diversity, but people tend to hold on to their beliefs more firmly
It's not that different in the south, at least in my generation (I'm 26). People of my age are "culturally" religious (they celebrate Christian holidays, most of them are baptized and have taken their first communion as children) but they don't practice Christianity actively, most are indifferent to religion, or see it just as a tradition. Older people generally care more about going to church and things like that but overall our lives are not dictated by religious norms.
Isnt’t it also different in the countryside than in big cities? I’m sure it is… in Poland the big cities vs. other parts of the country divergence is really visible
Yes and no. I would say it really depends on the regions and provinces we're talking about, because Italy has a really complex story of local divisions and feuds and it's to this day still not a mentally unified country. Here in the centre of Italy, the country side is not so different from the cities, for the most part. My grandma, who's 96 years old and comes from a tiny Village of less than 50 people in the mountains (and now lives in a city of 60k people, so...definitely not Rome or Milan, or even Florence) is the only religious person i know and she's a LGBTQ+ rights, abortion rights etc supporter too.
Italians are religious only on the facade but most of them don't really go to church, maybe they go on Christmas day but they would definitely get married in a church because they're so beautiful and because they want to stick to traditions. My sister baptized her kids because she wanted them to attend church after school programs which are free and offer many activities to kids (sports, trips, theater, etc) and I think a lot of people do that, not really because she is religious. I live in Germany now and I was shocked when I found out that you have to pay tax church if you are baptized/belong to the chutch.. if they would implement this law in Italy everybody would drop the church. In regards to getting married people don't really do that anymore because they are afraid of divorce and all they hussle and the money that it requires. Also they don't really see the need for that since you can still build the life with a persona you love and have kids... and it's basically the same thing
I think that there is also a big difference in how we perform religion and how we feel about it, because it’s so deeply linked to tradition… And that may end up screwing other people’s perception of Italian religiousness. Marriage, for example, is often celebrated with a religious ceremony still today; and I personally know many couples that got married in a church because of “traditions” and whatnot, even if they personally didn’t care/didn’t believe (but recently more and more couples started to defy tradition, going for a civil ceremony only). Non-Italians see a big, fancy, religious Italian wedding and think “oh, wow, what a religious country!” Meanwhile, Sunday masses are deserted except for a few true believers (mostly elderly).
Anche a me, hahaha, poi ci ho pensato su, sta semplicemente facendo un ottimo caffè "all'americana", a cui in Italia non si è proprio abituati, tutto qua😊
@@24Lorn in realtà il caffè americano dovrebbe essere preparato in modo diverso. quello è espresso più acqua. (e ha lo stesso sapore il che la dice lunga sul caffè americano). comunque sia è stato un colpo al cuore
I'm from the north of Italy and I am religious, but not only I am basically the only one that goes to church in my friend group, but also adult people I know that are married are the ones that go to church with me, because they give marriage an important value, as our religion want us to. All others aren't married or sometimes have been obliged by their family to marry in church because their parents wanted a traditional ceremony
It’s hard to explain culture. In Albania the government illegalized religion and yet the country remained culturally very conservative during communism. I didn’t know a single child who was born out of wedlock (if they were their mother probably claimed she was a divorcee). Divorce was very rare. Young girls died in illegal abortions. My point is that religious beliefs can shape culture long after the laws have changed or the beliefs themselves have faded. I think that’s the case in America. Most people don’t go to church every Sunday, but that doesn’t mean their social attitudes are not deeply shaped by Puritan culture. Here it is generally the poor who have children without getting married-probably to protect the government benefits they get.
That's the thing, getting married is expensive, a lot of trouble and kinda tricky to get out of, most people wait to have a good job, some stability and a real connection with the partner, and this usually happens later in life because of our economy 🤷♀️
I live in what is considered the region of Saints (and the green heart of Italy), aka Umbria. We' re neighbours with Tuscany, here in the centre of Italy and we're the birthplace of a lot of important Saints and overall religious people, like St. Francesco (Francis) from Assisi, Saint Rita from Cascia, Saint Benedetto (Benedict) from Norcia and let me tell you... MAYBE 1/2% of people under 35 is religious. I'm an atheist myself, like pretty much all of my friends. The younger generations are definitely, definitely NOT religious, as in followers of the roman church.
I live in Turin/Torino in the north and I know more people with kids that are not married than are. I know a couple guys that have kids with more than 1 woman. It is also common for couples to live together without being married
Secularization has really powered through in most of western europe, not just now but for decades - while it still might be culturally significant, most younger people here (I’m speaking for Belgium) really don’t consider themselves religious at all
I think in US not being married seen as not chosen. But a committed relationship is just as valid. It’s nice to stand before God/family/friends and pledge to love your spouse but it’s not necessary and doesn’t mean they are more likely to stay married. There is no legally binding paper but no less important.
Like the US needs that paper to actually treat each other decent?! Sounds a bit like that. And I would agree, cos I get that impression from what I see online and movies etc. And it's like...the romantic thing to do. And idk, if you don't do it you failed your life somehow. That's what.. I get the feeling some Americans think.
@@lisastenzel5713 I don’t wanna say they need it to take it serious, it’s as if the other ppl outside of the couple need it to take it as seriously. And with no paper there is no protection of things you do together like buy a house, do-mingle incomes. Courts don’t divide things when not married. The old argument of it’s just a piece of paper then why is it so important? I think the paper is for other like family, friends, government bc it is seen differently than a couple making the commitment without marriage. 🤷♀️
@@lisastenzel5713the US still has many religious undertones in society. Not getting married before having children is looked upon negatively by society, almost like sin even by those who aren’t religious. It’s not that they need the paper to treat each other decent, but rather the religious undertones still present in culture. Also, marriage provides a lot more security and protections when living together long term and if you have children. There are legal and economic motivations to want to get married in the United States.
@@janiceh4521 well yes marriage can give you some "facilities", however here exsist the "unione civile" that give you most of the rights married ppl has (usually gay ppl use this formula bcs in italy same se x marriage is forbidden for now)
My experience of the USA is of rampant hypocrasy: people who SAY they're religious and go through the motions because of social pressure to do so, rather than true faith. The 'social disapproval' is massive; atheists who'd never admit it in public,
The US has different levels of religious, too. Here in the north east, it’s very common to see people get married in their 30s and/or have kids out of wedlock. In the south or other more religious regions, people get married much younger. One of my high school friends was 24 and we all thought that was soooooo weird and sooooo young.
i'm from the north of italy, personally i've grown up with parents who never got married and it was never something that was frowned upon. in the rare times that it came up with my friends when i was younger, some ppl were just surprised but most found it completely normal. none of my gradparents or extended family have ever commented about this, it's truly a non issue (at least in my experience) my family used to be practicing catholic and i remember when we went to church my parents had been instructed not to take communion since they technically had a child (me) out of wedlock, idk if this is accurate/if it was more of a personal decision made by my parents rather than sth the priest told them to do or even if this would still happen today tbh but yea that's the only difference i can think of when comparing married and unmarried couples with children (ofc in this case exclusively for catholic families)
I'm not sure, I was in the airport on Sunday morning and they invited everyone to attend mass at the airport church. That never happened to me, and I'm South American.
I can vouch for this difference between Northern and Southern Italy. My dad's family is Southern and my mom's is Northern. Dad, my uncle, and their cousins grew up going to church every Sunday and only went to Catholic schools, whereas Mom's family only went to church for certain family functions and major holidays. I think the only reason the three of us went to church every week throughout my childhood was because my dad insisted on it.
Children born out of wedlock have been made fully equal in front of Italian law to those born inside wedlock like less than 20 years ago. At the same time, there are too few daycare facilities (I mean for toddlers under 3 years old) to the point that there is competition to obtain a place in the public ones, which are cheaper than the private ones (though the price difference is sometimes not that big) and toddlers with unmarried parents get a priority in this competition because their mother can pass herself off as single, even if the parents have actually been living together since like the past 10 years. Of course it's right that a real single mother gets a priority for getting her child in the daycare, but unmarried couples take an unfair advantage of this.
I come form Italy and my parents didn't get married because they say that most married couples end up breaking up with each other. Now we're 4 in the house: me, my brother, my mom and dad and their relationship has been over 35 years now
As an American, this was a massive eye-opener for me. I always assumed Italy was an extremely religious country, more than the US, due to it being the hub of Roman Catholicism and the cultural stereotypes about Italians being religious I absorbed growing up. Interesting that it's actually the complete opposite; the country I live in is more religious than Italy. I'm not sure why I thought this, probably exposure. I've never been to Europe or Italy, but I have been to South Korea as my parents are Korean, and South Korea is also an extremely religious society just like America. It's insane how religious Korean-Americans are, to the extent that I've been shamed for considering myself an atheist by none other than fellow Koreans. Likewise, America is quite religious too, and you'll often hear politicians incorporate God or Christianity into their campaigns. Fascinating how I never noticed this before. Thank you for this insight :).
Sheesh, it’s almost like you go to different regions of ANY country and the culture is different from region to region. Need I mention the American South v anything North of the Carolinas? Virginia is mid state but go further north and its not the same at all.
i wouldn't really link these to being religious but practicing the religion differently. a lot of things in the bible can be interpreted differently, especially so in the modern times and people always picked and chose (or added) there as well anyways. i would see for example the need to have a child while being married as the child being secure with both parents around and it being bad when the father just leaves the mother on her own. as long as both parents care for the kid it'd be all good. if all of the community changes their views like that then it just starts to get accepted. there's also a lot of different practices in different countries and different branches. branches who allow priests to marry aren't less religious, branches that wait for someone older to "choose" to be baptised aren't either. it's just different. now idk about the statistics though, i just feel like even there there's often more to it bc in different cultures with different standards one would maybe be more lenient or strict about calling themselves devout. (also arguably the US has whole christian groups that follow along political parties that go against the very bases of christian values like, caring for each other, yet still get to call themselves religous)
I think the distinction is US's Puritanical Christian religious history specifically. It plays out in our culture in a lot of ways, even for the non-religious
An italian friend of mine and his italian girlfriend had their first kids baptism before they were married. 😂 And even in north Italy...this was a bit of a thing for the priest and the families.😅 But he didn't care. I don't know why they married so late, but they did marry after all. Just showed up with a ring one day. And well, my mother and father only got married cos they wanted to leave east Germany and my mother was pregnant. I think she was 5 months along. The wedding pictures are hilarious with that belly. Cos I am a twin. 😅 And born after the 8th month. Also we had a baptism at ~2 years old. Cos she figured we would have to, to get into a kindergarten and school etc. Cos everywhere they ask for the religion.😅 So my mother used to end the story like that: So, I chose the lesser evil and you became protestants.🤣🙈 Anything but catholic was good for her. Funny enough, that baptism wasn't really real it seems. Cos I was never a member of the church. I never paid church taxes. I was never registered. Don't know how she did that. But narcissists get what they want, right.😂
Nope. I live in Lombardy, in a small village where I was born and raised, located about 30 minutes from Switzerland. I know at least 5-6 couples who got married in their mid-20s (mostly from super religious or very rich families). My (29, F) boyfriend (31, M) and I are not. Just like many others, but most of my friends got married at 30-31-32, etc., *BEFORE* they got kids. It's a big city v.s. small village thing. Not a North v.s. South thing.
I imagined Italy had a relationship with religion a bit like Brazil. Here in Brazil a lot of catholics only go to church when they need one of the sacraments, like baptism or marriage. Still there's a lot of people who are actively religious, and that's especially true of pentecostalian and neo-pentecostalian protestants.
Here in Italy only the first statement is true. The vast majority of people are only 'traditionally religious' (as in for holidays like christmas), but not practitioners of faith at all. And we only have a tiny minority of other religious groups separated from Catholicism, like Jehovah witnesses (which i believe is the larger minority here). For example, i come from what's best described as the land of Saints (Umbria, the neighbour region of Tuscany where Florence is) and i'm an atheist 😂
I lived for a few months in Montecorice in Campania last year....no one spoke English and the culture is very conservative there. BUT..... no one went to church except on Palm Sunday. Totally agree that even in the more traditionally conservative Southern Italy, people aren't religious, at least not the younger (60 and below) crowd.
(Italian language follow, sorry) Cara Signora Rosie, scusi la domanda: fa una caffettiera così grande? E' una caffettiera da 6 tazze o da 9? Inoltre credo abbia messo troppo poco caffè😂 Salutoni
from what i see in my country, people are not tipically religious, they may be believers but they dont feel the need to follow every step and rule, its like the ones that are religious believe in god but dont do it in a traditional way(going to church, first marriae then children) i dont think its bad they have faith but dont care about church as an institution( obviously you have people that do but i dont see it very often, especially in the city or in younger people) and also everyone lives their religion in their own ways and freely(majority again, you always have the very religious family) and also there isnt a lot of young people who are religious so
To better understand the religion in italy, I think you must watch Peppone e don Camillo films. This films are very old but shows how italians are catholics and anti-catholics at the same time
about south, depends. i live in Napoli. i'm not religius i don't wanna marry or have children. my parents are religius but not strictly, they rarely go in church for ex. my sister has a child (she had her at 31 yo) not married- however her mil is very religius and her partner's sister married at 23 but no kids, with a man from milan. a lot of friend of mine are with children (my gen had children late, between 30 and 40) and not merried. few think about it one day. however also in napoli, ususally ppl dont't marry or have children before 30 yo, or bcs don'care/want or bcs they have not enogh money. obviusly, i'm sorry to say, ppl with a culture and a better family contest, are less religius and think more about marriage and children, if have that or not or when (and this is valid in all italy, bcs also in the north the milan mentality it's different from the one in a little village). however a lot of person marry not in church. USA to me is way more religius in big number. here only the old one go to the church every sunday, here it's not a big deal and we don't put god in everything like in the usa when ppl always bless or thank god. of course, you can find these ppl here too and more open mind in usa, this is a generical observation, however, from what i read and watch, in the usa looks like here in the 50s about religion. technically italy it's a laic state (not alway i'm afraid) but on paper it is. politics usually use religion to take some simpaty however here in a conversation it's common with young ppl (or veneti) to use blasfemy words. In napoli then there are a lor of believers not just about god but to san gennaro or de*aths: "il culto dei m=rti" it's very important here, against what church say.
Great analysis. I'm Italian, from the North. My husband and I got married last year after 10 years together and a child. We did it purely for legal reasons, in case something happens... And a little bit because I wanted to be a bride for 2 hours 😁
My English grandfather was only allowed to marry my Italian grandmother if they raised their children as Catholics. That was years ago, though. Obviously.
They probably wait to get married because if you're someone like me who doesn't want to disrespect anyone, I have to invite 100+ relatives from southern Italy to make everyone happy at my future wedding. And it's costly. Really costly.
Guys, Kacie is having a delicious "caffè all'americana", that's all, it's just not a classical Italian "espresso". We're not used to see people having it, but it's just less intense, it's simply another way of having coffee!
I don't really know for the South, but in the North nobody would care. I know a lot of people that have children and they are in a committed relationship, but they are not married. In the last twenty years only one couple I know married before being thirty (but they were in their late twenties). For instance, my brother married when he was 32, his wife was the same age and they have two children. My sister has lived with her partner for almost 15 years, they are not married, they have two children and nobody never said them anything. I even know some people whose parents are very religious and they have children without being married. Not a big deal.
Practically today almost the half of marriages ends up with a divorce within less than 10 years. And the other half is not cupcakes and sprinkles. Longer and stable relations instead generally end up with a marriage because of tax deductibles and succession and pension rights. As long as you grow a couple of kids in the right way until the school age, then your parental function is succeeded and then the relationship can be dissolved as desired.
RELIGION IN ITALY is a money-making enterprise with the most minimal tax costs and the easiest income system due to donation-rooted income, which make up impossible estates and patrimony. Religion in Italy is also tightly link to political power and social control in a soft, elegant and justified way. The two main religious systems in Italy competing with each other are Christianity (Catholic Church) and Islam, which are both very strong and can be powerful and can be stronger than the Italian Civil Governament, in a very unseen way, yet effective to dominate in the italian society with pros and cons.
Perché ha mischiato la religiosità con una vita tradizionale? Al sud hanno una vita più tradizionale ma non sono effettivamente più religiosi, solo nei costumi
I was surprised that they have children out of wedlock, even the Prime minister of Italy has had a child out of the confines of marriage. Even when establishing paternity has been very historically important in Italy.
Yeah. Not only they were never married, they recently split up. Also, what do you mean exactly with establishing paternity being important in Italy...?
@steveniswho9254 oh, I heard that mentioned. I know it is an issue for many people (mostly in South America) who can not prove Italian descent and, therefore, citizenship if their ancestor is a woman born before that date. To be honest, I have no idea if that also means that an Italian woman living in Italy with a (let's say) French husband couldn't pass on her citizenship... Although I wouldn't be surprised. However, I can tell you for sure that people wouldn't like you having children out of wedlock in 1950! We are talking about a change that happened very gradually in the last 35/30 years. I believed what paved the way was the reform of the Family Law Code in 1975, which revolutionised the concept of parenthood from a "father authority" to "parentS authority", putting the role of the mum on the same level of the role of the dad. That was the same year when the Italian citizens were called to vote for the right of divorce and abortion. So, a very important year for women independence 💪
This is really interesting. I've seen some alarming things about right-wing attitudes in Italian politics lately, particularly towards LGBT+ people. In the UK we have the monarch as the Head of the Church, and we don't have separation of Church and State (which the US supposedly does but the reality lately is that the Church's values are being imposed on everyone else), but overall it's pretty much a secular society. The Methodists and others like them brought about a lot of social change in the 19th century and we still see that influence today, e.g. with the creation of the Labour party (many Methodists were working class men and women wanting a better, fairer society). I was a Christian when I got married first time around (21 years old and had known him for six months) and it was an unmitigated disaster. Needless to say in the years since I've gradually moved away from all that and now have a much more secular view of life, in line with most people. I just wish I hadn't been influenced in that way when I was young. It's abusive, ultimately, because it's controlling and it's not about the best interests of the individuals but about the best interests of the Church's image... Anyway...
What’s I find sad is truth isn’t based on what’s culturally acceptable. Truth is based on God’s standards. He sets up the covenant of marriage to protect people, and as a symbol of His covenant with us. Sad the church hasn’t taught this to the young people of today.
That's what you think is God's Truth, my pov of God's Truth tells me how to be a person that is good to others and deserving of Its love but does not dictate me on how to act in a way opposed to others; free will remember? We're free in God's love, It will judge what kind of person I've been not if I did or didn't sign a marriage contract lol You can't judge other believers just because you like stricter and more literal rules
Another truth is: there is no invisible man in the sky.... Just treat other people how you want to be treated (aka "the golden rule" long invented before religion).
@@erin6945 you can't be tolerant with the intolerant, that's how you get yourself in a fascist country; and we would know a thing or two about that ;) plus as a believer myself I only told her to not cross the line, you as an individual can do whatever you want with your religion but the moment you're trying to dictate others with your views is the moment you went too far. God's won't love you more because of it, you will just selfishly make other people's lives more difficult. We're both believers, if I see a believer using my religion to bully people I speak up, I don't cover them just because they believe in the same God I do, it would be against what my religion preaches
I live in Milan and most of the young couples I know aren't married and do not intend to. They may have children, but getting married is out of question. Oh, they don't care about religion either.
I think americans fail to realize how religious their country is in relation to most of the western world
The Right wing, evangelicals, are a minority in the US. Yet the media treats them as the majority.
It's crazy because I feel like we have too many atheists controlling everything yet when I travel the lack of Christianity is a culture shock
From outside it kinda looks like the opposite, no offence 😅 But I mean, your country was founded by people who either were too progressive or too religious for Europe, so I guess both is true. 🤷♀️
I'm a southern italian and I can tell people are literal hypocrites about religion, to the point it's disrespectful to the people who really believe.
Wow, that’s exactly how it is in America.
That is very rich 🎉🎉 i guess this applies to the whole world 😂😂
@@yosoykibbles Catholic italians are a very peculiar case: they will hate on anyone and anything, traditions, customes and food habits, that isn't Roman Catholic. Then they will swear against God and all saints in 'swear words' that can't even be translated into other languages.
Thank you for saying this, for foreign catholics from more 'secular' countries Italy can be a bit a disillusion in that regard 😅 but that's everywhere where religion is more tradition than conviction I guess. People will be people.
So, exactly like the rest of the world
as a comment under a video of Jimmy quello Bello said : "Italy is a country of religious *tradition*, not a religious country". That is so true because we have a ridiculous amount of churches, and traditions based on christinity. Most of us know how catechismo is like or some things about the Catholicism but we don't practice it. In the south there is this annyoing feeling of being overwhelmed by this sense of strictiness on this topic but they don't actually do any of that . What I always say is that Italy is at the same time the country closest to Catholicism and the farthest from it
I feel in the US, even people who aren’t particularly religious or devout still internalize quite a lot of Christian values and beliefs, even without the belief in Christ. Perhaps another factor too is that marriage in the US affords you a lot more rights and security. That may not be as much of an issue in Italy. Personally, if I was going to have a child with somebody, hopefully that would be with someone I would also enjoy being married to. Having a child with someone is definitely a lifelong commitment and while doable, I would hate that commitment done with the wrong person.
Me too, which is part of the reason I have not had any children, even though I would have loved to have a family-I point blank refuse to undertake that serious responsibility with someone I am not certain I want to partner with for life. And for me, I value taking those vows as an expression of commitment between the couple-no matter either party’s religion or lack thereof.
@@cendrillonatsea5006 being married not make you sure to be with someone for the rest of your life, not being married and have children doesn't mean you are not sure about the other person. maube you married and make children after a couple of year you are toghether while here you stay with someone 10 years, go living together fot a couple of years and then decide to have children. some then can married too. in italy the father have to give contribution for the child in both case.
Oh but those people who have children without being married definitely spend (or plan to) their lives together, they just don't do any ceremony. Is not that they're not certain they want to be together, they just don't value the paper so much as their personal commitment.
Yes, definitely that part about marriage in the USA affording more safety and security!! I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I'm American and live with my partner, but we are not married. I also have a chronic illness and I am disabled and not currently working because of it. At my most recent appointment with my specialist MD, it came up that my partner and I are not married, and I got a whole lecture about what would happen if my partner suddenly died and how my son and I would not be eligible for assistance from death benefits, and how if I became very sick and had to go to the hospital when he was not with me that the hospital could prevent him getting to me (assuming I am incapacitated), and then how he would not be able to help make any medical decisions for me, among other things. I definitely didn't realize the extent of potential situations it could affect, so now we must think about that versus the cost of losing my health benefit assistance due to his income. I wish there were other options available for couples.
@@OrNaurItsKat about partnership, yes, here too could be a problem, someone prefer civil union that give yo the same rights, or civil marriage. about children here the father has right and duty also without marriage. nowadays the "children reconnition" there is also without marriaga and if a father give problem, a judge can ask for a test, so father's duty and rights cannot be avoided. however i suppose a lot of ppl nowadays marry just for legal purpose
Basically:
Name one Italian person you know who regularly goes to church on Sundays. (you can't)
Name one Italian person you know who hasn't had sex before marriage. (you can't)
Name one Italian person you know who doesn't say a blasphemous exclamation at least once a day. (you can't)
[I'm joking, but everyday life where I live in Italy doesn't feel religious at all, except for the surprising amount of time dedicated to the Pope's speeches on tv, and the fact that they still teach Catholic religion in school (you can opt out).
Religion is simply part of tradition and culture, nothing more. As it's normal in a secular society.]
That's actually quite shocking. As an American, I too had the impression that Italy is more religious than America since the Vatican is based there and all. However, the fact that it's hard to find people who attend church weekly over there while I have many friends who do and are super religious is very shocking.
Granted, me and my friends come from a very religious culture, but it's very eye-opening.
@@intreoo I'm Italian, and I agree with what the other commenter said. No matter how much airtime the Pope gets on TV, religion is not a big deal anymore in our country.
@@intreoo I live in the south and its still very religious. I dont know what these people talking about
No, you're wrong , it's not different in the south . I'm from Sicily and it is like that here too . In my niece classroom ( she's 13 ) most of the kids are born from parents that don't feel the need to be married . It's not a matter of south or north , it's a matter of city versus village . In a bid city like Catania for example is much more common than in a small village in veneto ( just an example ) .
Seems like age is the most defining factor
@@Notturnoir Not necessarily cause older generations most of the times don't care if their kids are married or if they live with their partners and have children out of the wedlock . Nowadays grandparents do not care if their grandkids were born out of the wedlock . We don't give this huge of importance in marriage like Americans seem to give .
I agree with the marriage thing, especially in younger generations but i see a big difference in others things. The Festa di sant'Agata in Catania (it's a cerimony where they bring the statue of a saint around the city and people follow it, saying for who doesnt know it). In Catania is full of people of all generations and they take It seriously. There are many young people actually praying and you see they genuinly care. If you organize It in Veneto you wont see young people around, and if some show up it's probably just to make their older relatives happy.
@@Animalover-xm4lefrom what i see in my country, people are not tipically religious, they may be believers but they dont feel the need to follow every step and rule, its like the ones that are religious believe in god but dont do it in a traditional way(going to church, first marriae then children) i dont think its bad they have faith but dont care about church as an institution( obviously you have people that do but i dont see it very often, especially in the city or in younger people) and also everyone lives their religion in their own ways and freely(majority again, you always have the very religious family)
in the premarital courses of the Catholic church in northern Italy, out of 10 couples, 8 already live together, and 4 of them already have children... and this is not a problem for anyone
Another reason is that until a few years ago you needed to go through a 3-5 years of “separazione” to be allowed to file for divorce! That’s another reason why so many people didn’t get married if they didn’t have a solid motivation. Today the procedure has been simplified, but, compared to other countries, getting divorced is still a hassle.
Imagine going… I’m not going to marry this person but I don’t want to wait three and a half years for a divorce 😂. Yes, definitely not the mindset for marriage. Stay single.
In the past.. Now you can separate and divorce at the same time.. You pay a lawyer, they prepare the documents, not so many really, and that's it!
Compared to usa i would describe my country Italy as a culturally religious country more than a religious country (as i would describe USA). Culturally religious means that we view religion as a national tradition, something that is part of the uses and customs of the place, often linked to celebrations (like parties, festivities etc) and other stuff that start from a religious pov but is nowadays mostly a common way to do things, to act, etc.
I.e. the simplest international example i can think of is Santa K on Christmas, it started from a Christian pov but nowadays exchanging gifts is almost a global thing more than an exclusively Christian tradition.
That's how we view religion. The way USA does it is is "too much" to us, if done here you would be seen as an extremist or a really old style old priest/noun (in the local community even priests are criticized if they refuse to adopt a more modern view of religion)
Btw I'm from the South of Italy, in the North they're even more laid back from what I know
Why should they have to adapt to modern views of religion? You can't really update a religion. You either believe or you don't.
i'm italian as well (from the north) and YES, i've been trying to explain this for the longest time and you described it perfectly!
I think to describe the way the US does Christmas as the way the US does Christmas misses the fact that there is a huge diversity of ways of celebrating here. There are certainly religious people who keep it wholly religious and don't participate in the exorbitant gift-giving. There are also people who get angry if someone tells them to keep Christ in Christmas because they just want to have a party and don't want to be bothered with all that religious stuff and Christmas is a cultural holiday now, not a religious one. And then there are people who believe in other religions who may celebrate the cultural side and do trees and gifts and lights, or those who avoid taking any part in it.
@@erin6945Believing in a god or not doesn't automatically have to include also believing that all historical imperatives and moral judgments that come up in certain parts of a historical religious tradition are right or still apply to your current society. Like, you can believe in Jahweh and still believe that it's not a good thing for husbands to legally own their wife, as it's described in certain parts of the Torah/Bible. And even within, f.e., the Christian Bible there are many contradicting rules, because some parts of the texts were just written in a completely different time than others. It's quite possible to see that, accept it, choose which ideas and injunctions are important to you and discard any others, and still believe in that religion. Religion is more than just belief, its precepts reflect a historical era too.
@@erin6945 and you think religions have never adapted to modern ages till now? How do you think they survived so long? Honey we're old people, we've seen everything our religion had to offer, when they were persecuted in the Colosseum, when they persecuted other lands in religion wars, when they got rich and powerful and acted like sovereigns more than god's spokesperson, when they got entitled enough to sell indulgences, when they ignored and later accepted a dictator and made convenient laws of out it, when they started the people's pope propaganda.. we've seen it all. The Church changes with time because adapting to times is the only way to survive that long. So yes people demand adaptability to modern era from religion, that's way i.e. in the past divorced people couldn't get communion or have important roles in other people's weddings and now the priest doesn't bat an eye if a divorced person does it
I don't think people realize how religious Americans are. Many early colonist came to America for freedom of religion. This includes Puritans, Amish, Quackers, and lots of very religious groups. Even today, America has large Amish communities, Mennonites, Orthodox Jews, Catholics and hard core Christians. about three in four Americans said they identify with a specific religious faith. So we do have very religious people including Muslims, hindi and Buddhists. Lots of religious exist in the world and because America is a country built with different nationalities we tend to have lots of religious people.
It was wild moving from the US to the UK and finding out how different the Puritans are viewed. In school in the US we were just taught "oh they were a bit strict but very hard working and built the country." In the UK they're viewed as unhinged religious extremists
I am from Naples.
All my grandparents didn't get married until they were 30.
My parents got married at 36.
My only friend who is already married is 41.
It depends on the social context, not on north/south.
What I have noticed, however, is how totally normal it is in America for various show business people, I'll take Justin Bieber as an example to name but I could name a thousand others, to talk openly about religion and their relationship with God. Try as I might, I cannot recall any current Italian public figure doing the same. The thing here would be judged strange and perhaps, even and unfortunate, 'ridiculous'.
just salvini ahahahah
@@ilarya8463 ahahahah la mia mente lo rimuove completamente! Ed effettivamente viene considerato dai più "ridicolo" per questo
@@dilettacgf magari fosse rimosso da tutti noi ahah
I think for a lot of us europeans, talking about "relationship with god" in public is weird. Religion is considered to be private. Everyone interprets their religion differently, and then, in my country (germany) i think we're too "mixed" in a lot of places. Talking about youur specific faith as if it were a common sense fact in a room full of agnostics, atheists, catholic and protestants is just ... off.
Justin Bieber is Canadian, not American.
my cousin once half-jokingly said: "Italy is the least religious theocracy in Europe". Our society has been shaped by centuries of Catholicism, the Pope still holds a lot of influence in our politics (i mean he's basically the equivalent of the British Monarch to us), and definitely, in the South, people *tend* to be more actively religious, but even so, most people are not religious at all. Most people don't pray, don't have the church as their central moral compass, haven't read the Bible etc... Blasphemy is seen as taboo yet people are blasphemous all the time, it's normal to the point that it's weird to not be blasphemous. There are even memes about certain regions (Veneto) and their...colorful use of blasphemy.
That's really interesting. Your English is immaculate (better than a lot of native speakers). But just for the sake of interest - the British monarch has no political influence. It's part of our constitution - that way we get to have a monarchy and a democracy. The last time the monarch was overly involved in government, his head got chopped off.
@@yippee8570 Aw thank you, i love speaking English as often as i can. When i compared the two figures i meant it more on how the people perceive them than what powers they actually have. In practice, the Pope has no power over the Italian government, only on the Vatican state, yet it holds a great deal of influence on the morality of the people, not just, but especially of Italy. I'll say, though, there is less tabloid gossip around the Pope, which is certainly pleasant because i could not stand the type of aggressive gossiping that the Royal Family gets about the Pope too.
"The least religious theocracy" I could not have put it better! Your cousin is a genius, I will definitely steal that one when I have to describe Italy's situation to foreigners.
Italian here and I find this cultural difference very interesting!
From one side I think the “waiting a lot before marrying or even not marrying at all” comes from a kinda religious reason too, because there is the idea that marriage is something very very important that you are stuck with forever so you wanna be sure! (aka if you have a catholic marriage you cannot have a second one in the case of divorce because the divorce is only a civil thing not a religious one)
But also divorce was illegal in Italy until like the 70s so there’s that it was truly THE commitment for life 😅 and even now that is legal, divorcing is such a pain and a mess that lots of people prefer to avoid the risk lol
I see you point on some aspects but I don’t understand the people date a very long time bc marriage as seen as something very important but they will happily have children out of wedlock. Like saying, have a child… no big deal but marriage is😂
@@soullessnight6539 uhm I don’t know how to explain it better because I’m not very religious myself so it was only a perception from people I know. To be honest I think the biggest reason is that divorcing is truly very difficult in Italy (and marrying very expensive), and legally there is the “conviventi” status where you can have the recognition of being a couple and other benefits but if you break up is way easier, so usually people do that before marrying.
@@soullessnight6539 it's called "more uxorio" meaning that effective couples have almost same rights and commitments of married ones, including children support, without all the expenses and legal fees coming from wedding ceremony and divorce. Moreover if you don't get married, your personal wealth stays nominal to you and you don't have to share once divided, except for alimony (prenup here are not legally valid, from what I know). That is a really big issue that comes into play, especially with tight finances and our bad job market with low wages. Basically it's "we're ok with how we are, we try and avoid being super broke if we split"
@soullessnight6539 it's not uncommon here in Italy to have children out of wedlock because, legally, there is no difference between a child born in wedlock or out. Both parents are legally bound the same way. Even if you decide to marry later on and have more children they are all legally the same. And, from a religious point of view, having children while unmarried is, I think, a "lesser" sin, divorcing your husband/wife will cause you not to be accepted for holy communion.
Having a child is a bigger commitment because you’re responsible for a new person. That’s pretty common all over Europe.
I was also a bit baffled by that comment 😂 I agree with the rest of the comments in their description of Italy, and the video by Kacie was a good discussion start, but like... yeah, of course having a child is a bigger commitment than marriage, isn't it so elsewhere?? 😂😂
Unless she meant to say the opposite, I'm not sure what she meant by that. If in the US they consider marriage a bigger commitment than having children, I... I don't even have words
I think it’s similar to the UK in that regard, which is always viewed as a more Christian country than the US. It’s really,,, not. Like, there are definitely leftover things from when it was a religious country, but they tend to be more cultural? Like, a lot of people get christened as young children but don’t get raised religious at all. There’s definitely a difference between those who identify as Christian and those who actually practice Christianity. Hell, most church schools are fairly secular on the whole, and a lot of non church schools still do religious things as more of a cultural thing. And I think that’s kind of reflected in marriage here too. Nobody I know is willing to marry someone they haven’t been in a relationship with for a minimum of five years. And we’re less marriage focused in general, very few people in my age range (18-25) are focused on finding a spouse. I’d even go as far as to say only about half were looking for relationships in any regard. And, as love island would suggest, we’re definitely less uptight than the US about number of previous partners.
This is spot on. Speaking as an italian, born and raised, my country is the same.
I come from what's best described as ''the land of saints'' (region's called Umbria, neighbour of Tuscany where Florence is), birthplace of people like Saint Francis and Saint Benedict, yet the true amount of really religious people is close to zero.
For people of younger generations, like myself, i know no one who actually follows the Roman Church and practices their faith in Catholicism. The only person i know that's quite religious is my paternal grandma, 96 years old, and yet she has absolutely no problem with the LGBTQ+ community and their rights (my best friend is bi and has a girlfriend, she's another granddaughter for her) , couples living together before marriage, having kids before marriage, abortion and so on.
I'm an atheist (and a scientist) myself.
It sounds similar to Spain. In Spain (or at least in Madrid) everything is very culturally Catholic. You get a week off for Easter. There's a casual assumption that everyone is familiar with Catholic traditions, etc. But few people actually go to church or care about religion. Whereas in the US, people are much more aware of religious diversity, but people tend to hold on to their beliefs more firmly
It's not that different in the south, at least in my generation (I'm 26). People of my age are "culturally" religious (they celebrate Christian holidays, most of them are baptized and have taken their first communion as children) but they don't practice Christianity actively, most are indifferent to religion, or see it just as a tradition. Older people generally care more about going to church and things like that but overall our lives are not dictated by religious norms.
Isnt’t it also different in the countryside than in big cities? I’m sure it is… in Poland the big cities vs. other parts of the country divergence is really visible
Yes and no. I would say it really depends on the regions and provinces we're talking about, because Italy has a really complex story of local divisions and feuds and it's to this day still not a mentally unified country.
Here in the centre of Italy, the country side is not so different from the cities, for the most part.
My grandma, who's 96 years old and comes from a tiny Village of less than 50 people in the mountains (and now lives in a city of 60k people, so...definitely not Rome or Milan, or even Florence) is the only religious person i know and she's a LGBTQ+ rights, abortion rights etc supporter too.
Italians are religious only on the facade but most of them don't really go to church, maybe they go on Christmas day but they would definitely get married in a church because they're so beautiful and because they want to stick to traditions. My sister baptized her kids because she wanted them to attend church after school programs which are free and offer many activities to kids (sports, trips, theater, etc) and I think a lot of people do that, not really because she is religious. I live in Germany now and I was shocked when I found out that you have to pay tax church if you are baptized/belong to the chutch.. if they would implement this law in Italy everybody would drop the church. In regards to getting married people don't really do that anymore because they are afraid of divorce and all they hussle and the money that it requires. Also they don't really see the need for that since you can still build the life with a persona you love and have kids... and it's basically the same thing
I think that there is also a big difference in how we perform religion and how we feel about it, because it’s so deeply linked to tradition… And that may end up screwing other people’s perception of Italian religiousness.
Marriage, for example, is often celebrated with a religious ceremony still today; and I personally know many couples that got married in a church because of “traditions” and whatnot, even if they personally didn’t care/didn’t believe (but recently more and more couples started to defy tradition, going for a civil ceremony only).
Non-Italians see a big, fancy, religious Italian wedding and think “oh, wow, what a religious country!”
Meanwhile, Sunday masses are deserted except for a few true believers (mostly elderly).
Most Italians opt for religious ceremonies just because old churches are fancier backdrops for the photos than secular venues...
stavo guardando come facevi bene il caffè. poi verso la fine mi è venuto un infarto 😂😂😂
Anche a me, hahaha, poi ci ho pensato su, sta semplicemente facendo un ottimo caffè "all'americana", a cui in Italia non si è proprio abituati, tutto qua😊
@@24Lorn in realtà il caffè americano dovrebbe essere preparato in modo diverso. quello è espresso più acqua. (e ha lo stesso sapore il che la dice lunga sul caffè americano). comunque sia è stato un colpo al cuore
I'm from the north of Italy and I am religious, but not only I am basically the only one that goes to church in my friend group, but also adult people I know that are married are the ones that go to church with me, because they give marriage an important value, as our religion want us to. All others aren't married or sometimes have been obliged by their family to marry in church because their parents wanted a traditional ceremony
It’s hard to explain culture. In Albania the government illegalized religion and yet the country remained culturally very conservative during communism. I didn’t know a single child who was born out of wedlock (if they were their mother probably claimed she was a divorcee). Divorce was very rare. Young girls died in illegal abortions. My point is that religious beliefs can shape culture long after the laws have changed or the beliefs themselves have faded. I think that’s the case in America. Most people don’t go to church every Sunday, but that doesn’t mean their social attitudes are not deeply shaped by Puritan culture. Here it is generally the poor who have children without getting married-probably to protect the government benefits they get.
That's the thing, getting married is expensive, a lot of trouble and kinda tricky to get out of, most people wait to have a good job, some stability and a real connection with the partner, and this usually happens later in life because of our economy 🤷♀️
That beautifully placed sip of coffee made my day! 😂
I live in what is considered the region of Saints (and the green heart of Italy), aka Umbria. We' re neighbours with Tuscany, here in the centre of Italy and we're the birthplace of a lot of important Saints and overall religious people, like St. Francesco (Francis) from Assisi, Saint Rita from Cascia, Saint Benedetto (Benedict) from Norcia and let me tell you... MAYBE 1/2% of people under 35 is religious. I'm an atheist myself, like pretty much all of my friends.
The younger generations are definitely, definitely NOT religious, as in followers of the roman church.
Yes! Thank you for doing this video ❤
Clear explanation ❤
You’re so pretty! Europe looks great on you! I wish I was still young and beautiful❤
Yep it's a generational thing, not really a big difference from north to south
I live in Turin/Torino in the north and I know more people with kids that are not married than are. I know a couple guys that have kids with more than 1 woman. It is also common for couples to live together without being married
Secularization has really powered through in most of western europe, not just now but for decades - while it still might be culturally significant, most younger people here (I’m speaking for Belgium) really don’t consider themselves religious at all
Your hair is looking awesome! That’s all. 😊
I think in US not being married seen as not chosen. But a committed relationship is just as valid. It’s nice to stand before God/family/friends and pledge to love your spouse but it’s not necessary and doesn’t mean they are more likely to stay married. There is no legally binding paper but no less important.
Like the US needs that paper to actually treat each other decent?! Sounds a bit like that. And I would agree, cos I get that impression from what I see online and movies etc.
And it's like...the romantic thing to do. And idk, if you don't do it you failed your life somehow. That's what.. I get the feeling some Americans think.
@@lisastenzel5713 I don’t wanna say they need it to take it serious, it’s as if the other ppl outside of the couple need it to take it as seriously. And with no paper there is no protection of things you do together like buy a house, do-mingle incomes. Courts don’t divide things when not married. The old argument of it’s just a piece of paper then why is it so important? I think the paper is for other like family, friends, government bc it is seen differently than a couple making the commitment without marriage. 🤷♀️
@@lisastenzel5713the US still has many religious undertones in society. Not getting married before having children is looked upon negatively by society, almost like sin even by those who aren’t religious. It’s not that they need the paper to treat each other decent, but rather the religious undertones still present in culture. Also, marriage provides a lot more security and protections when living together long term and if you have children. There are legal and economic motivations to want to get married in the United States.
@@janiceh4521 well yes marriage can give you some "facilities", however here exsist the "unione civile" that give you most of the rights married ppl has (usually gay ppl use this formula bcs in italy same se x marriage is forbidden for now)
I live in Florence too, and I second that.
My experience of the USA is of rampant hypocrasy: people who SAY they're religious and go through the motions because of social pressure to do so, rather than true faith. The 'social disapproval' is massive; atheists who'd never admit it in public,
Con questo taglio dei capelli sei stra bella!!🩷🩷
Ms Rose what are you doing with your coffee from the Moka pot?? Water!! 😢😢😢
PS I think your videos are cool!
The US has different levels of religious, too. Here in the north east, it’s very common to see people get married in their 30s and/or have kids out of wedlock. In the south or other more religious regions, people get married much younger. One of my high school friends was 24 and we all thought that was soooooo weird and sooooo young.
Love the hot tea!
i'm from the north of italy, personally i've grown up with parents who never got married and it was never something that was frowned upon. in the rare times that it came up with my friends when i was younger, some ppl were just surprised but most found it completely normal. none of my gradparents or extended family have ever commented about this, it's truly a non issue (at least in my experience)
my family used to be practicing catholic and i remember when we went to church my parents had been instructed not to take communion since they technically had a child (me) out of wedlock, idk if this is accurate/if it was more of a personal decision made by my parents rather than sth the priest told them to do or even if this would still happen today tbh
but yea that's the only difference i can think of when comparing married and unmarried couples with children (ofc in this case exclusively for catholic families)
I'm not sure, I was in the airport on Sunday morning and they invited everyone to attend mass at the airport church. That never happened to me, and I'm South American.
Of course having a child together is more binding and important than being married. It's literally making a human being vs signing some papers.
I can vouch for this difference between Northern and Southern Italy. My dad's family is Southern and my mom's is Northern. Dad, my uncle, and their cousins grew up going to church every Sunday and only went to Catholic schools, whereas Mom's family only went to church for certain family functions and major holidays. I think the only reason the three of us went to church every week throughout my childhood was because my dad insisted on it.
Children born out of wedlock have been made fully equal in front of Italian law to those born inside wedlock like less than 20 years ago. At the same time, there are too few daycare facilities (I mean for toddlers under 3 years old) to the point that there is competition to obtain a place in the public ones, which are cheaper than the private ones (though the price difference is sometimes not that big) and toddlers with unmarried parents get a priority in this competition because their mother can pass herself off as single, even if the parents have actually been living together since like the past 10 years. Of course it's right that a real single mother gets a priority for getting her child in the daycare, but unmarried couples take an unfair advantage of this.
I come form Italy and my parents didn't get married because they say that most married couples end up breaking up with each other. Now we're 4 in the house: me, my brother, my mom and dad and their relationship has been over 35 years now
As an American, this was a massive eye-opener for me. I always assumed Italy was an extremely religious country, more than the US, due to it being the hub of Roman Catholicism and the cultural stereotypes about Italians being religious I absorbed growing up. Interesting that it's actually the complete opposite; the country I live in is more religious than Italy.
I'm not sure why I thought this, probably exposure. I've never been to Europe or Italy, but I have been to South Korea as my parents are Korean, and South Korea is also an extremely religious society just like America. It's insane how religious Korean-Americans are, to the extent that I've been shamed for considering myself an atheist by none other than fellow Koreans. Likewise, America is quite religious too, and you'll often hear politicians incorporate God or Christianity into their campaigns. Fascinating how I never noticed this before.
Thank you for this insight :).
Sheesh, it’s almost like you go to different regions of ANY country and the culture is different from region to region. Need I mention the American South v anything North of the Carolinas? Virginia is mid state but go further north and its not the same at all.
i wouldn't really link these to being religious but practicing the religion differently. a lot of things in the bible can be interpreted differently, especially so in the modern times and people always picked and chose (or added) there as well anyways. i would see for example the need to have a child while being married as the child being secure with both parents around and it being bad when the father just leaves the mother on her own. as long as both parents care for the kid it'd be all good. if all of the community changes their views like that then it just starts to get accepted.
there's also a lot of different practices in different countries and different branches. branches who allow priests to marry aren't less religious, branches that wait for someone older to "choose" to be baptised aren't either. it's just different.
now idk about the statistics though, i just feel like even there there's often more to it bc in different cultures with different standards one would maybe be more lenient or strict about calling themselves devout.
(also arguably the US has whole christian groups that follow along political parties that go against the very bases of christian values like, caring for each other, yet still get to call themselves religous)
We have the face of a religious country but the young generation is as atheist as in ... idk ... Ireland for example.
ireland??
I feel as if my generation (z) isn't very religious. If they do identify with a religion it's for political reasons imo.
Probably not the best example, but the sentiment is there.
I think the distinction is US's Puritanical Christian religious history specifically. It plays out in our culture in a lot of ways, even for the non-religious
How was your coffee? Was this in the morning?😮 I can't build full sentences before coffee 😂
An italian friend of mine and his italian girlfriend had their first kids baptism before they were married. 😂 And even in north Italy...this was a bit of a thing for the priest and the families.😅 But he didn't care. I don't know why they married so late, but they did marry after all. Just showed up with a ring one day.
And well, my mother and father only got married cos they wanted to leave east Germany and my mother was pregnant. I think she was 5 months along. The wedding pictures are hilarious with that belly. Cos I am a twin. 😅 And born after the 8th month. Also we had a baptism at ~2 years old. Cos she figured we would have to, to get into a kindergarten and school etc. Cos everywhere they ask for the religion.😅 So my mother used to end the story like that: So, I chose the lesser evil and you became protestants.🤣🙈
Anything but catholic was good for her.
Funny enough, that baptism wasn't really real it seems. Cos I was never a member of the church. I never paid church taxes. I was never registered. Don't know how she did that. But narcissists get what they want, right.😂
My cousin and her husband literally got married and baptized their kid the same day lol.
Nope. I live in Lombardy, in a small village where I was born and raised, located about 30 minutes from Switzerland. I know at least 5-6 couples who got married in their mid-20s (mostly from super religious or very rich families). My (29, F) boyfriend (31, M) and I are not. Just like many others, but most of my friends got married at 30-31-32, etc., *BEFORE* they got kids. It's a big city v.s. small village thing. Not a North v.s. South thing.
I imagined Italy had a relationship with religion a bit like Brazil. Here in Brazil a lot of catholics only go to church when they need one of the sacraments, like baptism or marriage. Still there's a lot of people who are actively religious, and that's especially true of pentecostalian and neo-pentecostalian protestants.
Here in Italy only the first statement is true. The vast majority of people are only 'traditionally religious' (as in for holidays like christmas), but not practitioners of faith at all.
And we only have a tiny minority of other religious groups separated from Catholicism, like Jehovah witnesses (which i believe is the larger minority here).
For example, i come from what's best described as the land of Saints (Umbria, the neighbour region of Tuscany where Florence is) and i'm an atheist 😂
South isn't that different to be honest. Hi from Campania!
I lived for a few months in Montecorice in Campania last year....no one spoke English and the culture is very conservative there. BUT..... no one went to church except on Palm Sunday. Totally agree that even in the more traditionally conservative Southern Italy, people aren't religious, at least not the younger (60 and below) crowd.
(Italian language follow, sorry) Cara Signora Rosie, scusi la domanda: fa una caffettiera così grande? E' una caffettiera da 6 tazze o da 9? Inoltre credo abbia messo troppo poco caffè😂 Salutoni
from what i see in my country, people are not tipically religious, they may be believers but they dont feel the need to follow every step and rule, its like the ones that are religious believe in god but dont do it in a traditional way(going to church, first marriae then children) i dont think its bad they have faith but dont care about church as an institution( obviously you have people that do but i dont see it very often, especially in the city or in younger people) and also everyone lives their religion in their own ways and freely(majority again, you always have the very religious family) and also there isnt a lot of young people who are religious so
To better understand the religion in italy, I think you must watch Peppone e don Camillo films. This films are very old but shows how italians are catholics and anti-catholics at the same time
about south, depends. i live in Napoli. i'm not religius i don't wanna marry or have children. my parents are religius but not strictly, they rarely go in church for ex. my sister has a child (she had her at 31 yo) not married- however her mil is very religius and her partner's sister married at 23 but no kids, with a man from milan. a lot of friend of mine are with children (my gen had children late, between 30 and 40) and not merried. few think about it one day. however also in napoli, ususally ppl dont't marry or have children before 30 yo, or bcs don'care/want or bcs they have not enogh money. obviusly, i'm sorry to say, ppl with a culture and a better family contest, are less religius and think more about marriage and children, if have that or not or when (and this is valid in all italy, bcs also in the north the milan mentality it's different from the one in a little village). however a lot of person marry not in church. USA to me is way more religius in big number. here only the old one go to the church every sunday, here it's not a big deal and we don't put god in everything like in the usa when ppl always bless or thank god. of course, you can find these ppl here too and more open mind in usa, this is a generical observation, however, from what i read and watch, in the usa looks like here in the 50s about religion. technically italy it's a laic state (not alway i'm afraid) but on paper it is. politics usually use religion to take some simpaty however here in a conversation it's common with young ppl (or veneti) to use blasfemy words. In napoli then there are a lor of believers not just about god but to san gennaro or de*aths: "il culto dei m=rti" it's very important here, against what church say.
Great analysis. I'm Italian, from the North. My husband and I got married last year after 10 years together and a child. We did it purely for legal reasons, in case something happens... And a little bit because I wanted to be a bride for 2 hours 😁
Bill Maher's "Religulous" made a nice analysis about this.
My English grandfather was only allowed to marry my Italian grandmother if they raised their children as Catholics. That was years ago, though. Obviously.
That was a lot of scoops of coffee in that moka pot. 😮
They probably wait to get married because if you're someone like me who doesn't want to disrespect anyone, I have to invite 100+ relatives from southern Italy to make everyone happy at my future wedding. And it's costly. Really costly.
Sounds like northern Italy is basically an extension of France religionwise.
Guys, Kacie is having a delicious "caffè all'americana", that's all, it's just not a classical Italian "espresso". We're not used to see people having it, but it's just less intense, it's simply another way of having coffee!
Shes using a coffee percolator
I don't really know for the South, but in the North nobody would care. I know a lot of people that have children and they are in a committed relationship, but they are not married. In the last twenty years only one couple I know married before being thirty (but they were in their late twenties). For instance, my brother married when he was 32, his wife was the same age and they have two children. My sister has lived with her partner for almost 15 years, they are not married, they have two children and nobody never said them anything. I even know some people whose parents are very religious and they have children without being married. Not a big deal.
Here’s the more important question - did you just put water in your coffee? 😶
Forgive my foibles, but the slurp actually made me jump. Yikes!!
Practically today almost the half of marriages ends up with a divorce within less than 10 years. And the other half is not cupcakes and sprinkles.
Longer and stable relations instead generally end up with a marriage because of tax deductibles and succession and pension rights.
As long as you grow a couple of kids in the right way until the school age, then your parental function is succeeded and then the relationship can be dissolved as desired.
I'm from the north and religion was always just a personal matter and about spirituality, not marriage and kids per se, no one care about that
RELIGION IN ITALY is a money-making enterprise with the most minimal tax costs and the easiest income system due to donation-rooted income, which make up impossible estates and patrimony. Religion in Italy is also tightly link to political power and social control in a soft, elegant and justified way. The two main religious systems in Italy competing with each other are Christianity (Catholic Church) and Islam, which are both very strong and can be powerful and can be stronger than the Italian Civil Governament, in a very unseen way, yet effective to dominate in the italian society with pros and cons.
Jesus is crying seeing what you did with that coffee 😂
Perché ha mischiato la religiosità con una vita tradizionale? Al sud hanno una vita più tradizionale ma non sono effettivamente più religiosi, solo nei costumi
I was surprised that they have children out of wedlock, even the Prime minister of Italy has had a child out of the confines of marriage. Even when establishing paternity has been very historically important in Italy.
Yeah. Not only they were never married, they recently split up. Also, what do you mean exactly with establishing paternity being important in Italy...?
@@loiracitr Before 1948 Italian women couldn't pass on citizenship. Then if an Italian man has a child with a foreign woman.
@steveniswho9254 oh, I heard that mentioned. I know it is an issue for many people (mostly in South America) who can not prove Italian descent and, therefore, citizenship if their ancestor is a woman born before that date. To be honest, I have no idea if that also means that an Italian woman living in Italy with a (let's say) French husband couldn't pass on her citizenship... Although I wouldn't be surprised. However, I can tell you for sure that people wouldn't like you having children out of wedlock in 1950! We are talking about a change that happened very gradually in the last 35/30 years. I believed what paved the way was the reform of the Family Law Code in 1975, which revolutionised the concept of parenthood from a "father authority" to "parentS authority", putting the role of the mum on the same level of the role of the dad. That was the same year when the Italian citizens were called to vote for the right of divorce and abortion. So, a very important year for women independence 💪
@@loiracitr Very informative, yes after 1948 women could pass on Italian citizenship to their children.
Yes
Did you just water down your coffee?
The US is definitely more religious than Italy in any sense, Italy follows the “atheist” trend of other countries in Europe.
This is really interesting. I've seen some alarming things about right-wing attitudes in Italian politics lately, particularly towards LGBT+ people. In the UK we have the monarch as the Head of the Church, and we don't have separation of Church and State (which the US supposedly does but the reality lately is that the Church's values are being imposed on everyone else), but overall it's pretty much a secular society. The Methodists and others like them brought about a lot of social change in the 19th century and we still see that influence today, e.g. with the creation of the Labour party (many Methodists were working class men and women wanting a better, fairer society). I was a Christian when I got married first time around (21 years old and had known him for six months) and it was an unmitigated disaster. Needless to say in the years since I've gradually moved away from all that and now have a much more secular view of life, in line with most people. I just wish I hadn't been influenced in that way when I was young. It's abusive, ultimately, because it's controlling and it's not about the best interests of the individuals but about the best interests of the Church's image... Anyway...
Oohh religion… the weapon invaders used against God and humans.
God is kind and loving not punitive like what religions placed Him to be.
❤
How one gets married isn’t really a good indicator of how ‘religious’ a person is.
Yikes
Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
The Hobbit 1:1- "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit". There. I can quote fantasy fiction too.
@@charlesunderwood6334 That's so far from the truth. the Bible is the most reliable historical document that's ever existed.
@@quickasmr2781 I assume that is sarcasm
@@charlesunderwood6334 no
What’s I find sad is truth isn’t based on what’s culturally acceptable. Truth is based on God’s standards. He sets up the covenant of marriage to protect people, and as a symbol of His covenant with us. Sad the church hasn’t taught this to the young people of today.
That's what you think is God's Truth, my pov of God's Truth tells me how to be a person that is good to others and deserving of Its love but does not dictate me on how to act in a way opposed to others; free will remember? We're free in God's love, It will judge what kind of person I've been not if I did or didn't sign a marriage contract lol
You can't judge other believers just because you like stricter and more literal rules
Another truth is: there is no invisible man in the sky.... Just treat other people how you want to be treated (aka "the golden rule" long invented before religion).
@@areswalker5647 You are doing to her the same thing you think she's doing to you.
@@snoopstheboss994 According to you. According to her, there is.
@@erin6945 you can't be tolerant with the intolerant, that's how you get yourself in a fascist country; and we would know a thing or two about that ;) plus as a believer myself I only told her to not cross the line, you as an individual can do whatever you want with your religion but the moment you're trying to dictate others with your views is the moment you went too far. God's won't love you more because of it, you will just selfishly make other people's lives more difficult.
We're both believers, if I see a believer using my religion to bully people I speak up, I don't cover them just because they believe in the same God I do, it would be against what my religion preaches
I do not consider the US religious at all. Like, not even a tiny bit. I’m so surprised you said that.
I live in Milan and most of the young couples I know aren't married and do not intend to. They may have children, but getting married is out of question. Oh, they don't care about religion either.
Girl - how strong dyou drink your coffee 🥄 🥄 🥄 🥄👀