Fate Zero: The Appeal of the Classic Greek Tragedy
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2015
- Who's ready for some rambles and pseudo-intellectual posturing? No one? Well...........carry on..........
Relevant Resources:
classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/poe...
www.ohio.edu/people/hartleyg/r...
• BBC Ancient Greece The...
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Music Used:
Fate Zero OST - Point Zero
Fate Zero OST - Let the stars fall down
Fate Zero OST - Grief
Fate Zero OST - The legend
Fate Zero OST - The beginning of the end
Fate Zero OST - Silver Moon
Fate Zero OST - You Are My King
BarlowGirl ~ Never Alone
Ending AMV:
• AMV - MoonFlower - Bes... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
![The First Holy Grail War Explained [Fate/Stay Night] [Fate/Zero] [FGO]](/img/n.gif)
As a Greek who is well-versed with Greek tragedy thanks to the basic school curriculum focusing heavily on it and all of its elements, as well as my immense personal investment in studying it... I can say this was a damn well-made video. Good job.
Ελλάδαρα ρε Μαλακααααα. ναιιιιιι
@@God-mi8fw παμε ρεεεεεε
@@God-mi8fw bruh yt can't translate greek language
Now it can
I know Saber's way of thinking is very naive, but I couldn't help myself but getting absorbed into her character because of it. In a way, I think she knew deep down that her ideology was unrealistic, but she kept vigorously fighting reality during her life and during the war in hopes that she could change it, which unfortunately only made her situation much worse in the end. She's seriously one of my all-time favorite anime characters.
" In a way, I think she knew deep down that her ideology was unrealistic, but she kept vigorously fighting reality during her life and during the war in hopes that she could change it" That's exactly the point of Saber's character actually. She's too rigid with her ideals in such a way that she knowingly prevents herself from achieving them.
That's why she's such a perfect fit for Shirou basically the same ideology but Shirou confronts it more directly
That’s why she’s Gilgamesh’s favorite.
that was the same for Pre-Archer Shirou, he knew deep down that he could not save everyone, but he kept fighting for his ideal, an ideal world where no one cries and everyone is happy. He knew he was empty, that his ideal was borrowed from Kiritsugu , he never had anything authentic of his own, and he never even knew what being an Ally of Justice means, but he kept on fighting based on its beauty.
@@Zarozian i was looking for this comment :p
These types of videos remind me why I like anime
I fell in love with Zero for one reason. The sheer beauty of emotion that is painted into each scene via visuals and audio. The characters alone had me hooked with their desires and struggles.
But none hit on a more personal level than Iskander. Getting to first see his character was like taking a full breath of clean ocean air. As the series progressed, I grew to love him all the more. because he is bold and passionate and literally challenging everyone and everything around him. He makes you look at yourself and asks you, "Is this all you want to be or do you have it in your heart to strive for more?"
At the time I watched Zero, I was at a deep low point. I was just getting out of a ten year long abusive marriage. Group therapy for survivors of rape and domestic abuse weren't doing much. The I found UBW. It was spellbinding and had me get excited for something for the first time in eight years. Then I found Zero. And it was glorious. I fell in love with Fate, the characters, and how they made me feel things I had all but discarded ever feeling again. Iskander in particular made a big impact. I felt a kind of comfort and love I had long lost from when the person I love most passed away. The series gave me moments of exhilaration and deep emotional connection. I was left with the sense that no other series would ever move me that way again. It's still a special series to me after several years of delving into more amazing stories.
And yet, when the dreamer wakes up, the dream disappears...
I hope you are well, Megan, and that after all that you had to suffer to, and all that you had to survive, you managed to find an island where Iskander could laugh and entertain you with his stories of how we can strive for more, and be both inspired and inspiring. If we are able to keep our garden going, that is. Because after all, we all have always wanted to be... heroes.
I found fate zero (especially because of Iskandar) and Clannad were 2 of the most impactful animes on my life.
Iskandar is such an amazing character because he resembles a character who literally conquered the world. And had the confidence of someone who did. And appearing in the future to find the world was so much bigger than he ever imagined, and all the work he had ever done was undone soon after his death didnt matter to him because he lived so damn well. His dream crumbled to dust almost immediately after he died, and instead of wallow he laughed, slapped his hands to his hips, struck a pose and said "im gonna do it again, but better!"
It inspires confidence. Confidence that inspires you to be better than you are, because you *deserve* better. You deserve the world. But only if you want it bad enough to take it. Alexander the great, in real life, conquered thousands of miles of land before the age of 22. Compared to him, anyones life seems wasted. But also makes you realize how much can be accomplished with the right drive and attitude.
Clannad showed me the importance of family. Which clannad means in gaelige (or Gaelic to the layman. But specifically speaking, the irish dialect)
Clannad is an anime that focuses heavily on love, loss, and family. Blood family, family you create, and the family you make through strong friendships. It shows various forms of relatable suffering. Being orphaned and blaming yourself. Losing a brother who you loved but never truly got to understand. Being raised by a seemingly abusive and distant father. Death of a loved one. Being a single parent. And even more. Bur all of it is centered around the love of family, and the understanding of suffering. The distant father you grew up to hate may have just been a broken man, shattered by the loss of his wife, grief and stress of raising a son alone while working himself to the bone to provide for his baby boy until eventually it breaks him into a hollow shell from years of unseen abuse and stress.
It helped me realize everyone suffers in some way, and nobody is evil or bad, without some big reason or even pushing them there. Its a beautiful anime, and one of what i consider the "four horsemen of heartbreak" lol. Because it makes you cry.
Clannad
Angel beats
Your lie in April
And, Anohana
💯
This was a really fucking good video. Definitely the best one I've ever seen on Fate/Zero, and probably one of the best anime-related ones that I've seen. I honestly can't compliment it enough. Now, let's answer those questions.
1. In the sense of giving the audience choices where there isn't necessarily a right or a wrong, I definitely consider this to be a return to greek tragedy. There were several parts of this show in which characters were faced with choices and I could really understand their struggles as I myself found the choices to be just as excruciatingly hard as the characters who were faced with them did.
2. I think there are many anime out there who attempt to do something like this, but few in the same scale as Fate/Zero does. I think one example that immediately sticks out to people would be Neon Genesis Evangelion but there are several ones out there.
3. The character I found myself relating to the most in this show was Kariya Matou as I could not only understand, but also respect his decision to sacrifice himself for the people he loves, and I also think his character symbolises just how cruel life can be. Throughout the series we see Kariya give up everything. He gives up the love of his life to Tokiomi in order to prevent her from falling into his father's clutches, he takes the crest worms into his body facing excrutiating pain and gradually loses both his sanity and his life during the war, all because he wanted to protect Sakura and let her be with Rin and her mother. And then despite sacrificing all of these things he dies having achieved nothing, only finding solace in the few moments before his death before he disappears from the world forever, with his only achievement being that he's hurt the ones he loved. And, as seen in Fate/Stay Night, there isn't even anyone left to tell his story. He is utterly forgotten. He lived sacrificing everything, but in the end he achieved nothing.
skill392 :(
Oof
Well, of course he did...
His life went Out, out like a brief candle; a mere walking shadow.
Kariya was a poor player in the play authored by Gilgamesh,
Who strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and was heard no more.
His tale was told by an idiot, full of sound and fury... Yet signifying nothing.
~Paraphrased from Macbeth
Yes, he sacrificed everything he had but it is also quite obvious that he had nothing by the moment he appears for the first time. He and Kayneth are somehow opposed to each other (about Kariya it is said that he is a looser and Kayneth is a genius), although they face quite a similar end.
Honestly this video got me to watch fate zero
Definitely the best video on Fate Zero I've seen. This series really does have many resemblances with that of Greek Tragedy. Your video provides great insight for many Fate fans. Keep up the good work, Eric! :)
I think Berserk falls into this idea of a Greek Tragedy
care to elaborate?
@@samaritan29 golden age arc is literally the greek tragedy where human lost himself in his own darkness and we get two character griffith and guts. Griffith fall into this darkness and become a person which he and world deems perfect (his idealistic persona) by completely succumbed by his one straightforward feeling without understanding his other emotions and guts literally struggle his whole life to slay it and mourn his failure with dignity. Then he grow from lesson he find from his actions and create his own meaning to live. He become much modest through his life. suffering his own life and find meaning in it. Guts is the best character who is tragic but never play victim like other tragic character do. Guts always fight with his suffering and try to find meaning in it. He fully embraces his personality but when one of his factor started to overwhelm him. He fight against it with those who are dear to him. He even embraces his own darkness but always struggle against it. So that he never forget that what he is fighting for. He is true hero who find beauty in his struggle itself and have different way of dignity than anyone.
"...I could write an entire thesis paper on it."
...if you won't, then I will, bud. This is everything I've ever wanted to say on Fate/Zero and I thank you for making such a fantastic video! Probably won't write a thesis paper on it, but I'll probably throw it under the microscope for a school project of some sort. I've always wanted to do something with it, and this video as lit a fire inside me for it.
A well-structured and thought out analysis.
I look forward to more.
“People die when they are killed” ah, there’s no escaping that joke where ever you are LOL
Good video Eric, it was very interesting and almost fitting hearing the ideals of Aristotle being mentioned in reference to a show that has characters from all over history, some even from close to his time. With that said the following are my responses to the questions you posed.
1. I think in the sense that the classic Greek Tragedy is centered around the concept of a choice that is difficult to make I feel in some aspects Fate/Zero definitely displays such a conflict.
2. I think there are quite a few other anime that could also be considered a tragedy as described. Some examples being: Evangelion, Kara no Kyoukai, and even Code Geass to some extent but much less of one. I think while anime and these listed especially may not have all of the requirements I think they at least present a strong sense of Catharsis in them which as you mentioned is believed to be the most integral part of a tragedy.
3. The characters I found myself relating to the most were Kiritsugu due to how his ideals of sacrificing the few for the many and how in the end such an ideal may superficially work but it is impossible to quantify the worth of a human beyond simply numerically accounting for their existence. A person can be just one person but the inflated value we may feel towards that person makes them much greater than that. That is why when it come to human lives we cannot always arbitrarily and or simply say the many are more important than the few, we can only put the > or < between the numbers, we cannot put them between the names, or at least if we do well there is no correct answer since such a question is so deeply rooted in subjectivity that you will never get a unanimous answer. 3 >2 but They ≯ Them.
***** Hello there, haven't seen you in a while, good to see you finally :)
RCgamer 77 I maybe inactive but I am always around.
***** Yes I know as always I love all your videos and keep up the good work!
RCgamer 77 I will man, hopefully there will be a video out sooner than later :)
***** Also I agree with you that we can't justify humans worth with quantity alone, every time I think about Kiritsugu, I will think a thought experiment called train dilemma where you are a train driver and you suddenly can't stop the train you are driving, you know you will kill 5 workers working on the rail in front of you, but you have a option to switch to another rail and killing off 1 worker working on that rail, using Kiritsugu's mindset, you will chose to kill off 1 instead of 5 workers, but what if that one person is someone you value the most? Then as you said one person inflated value will greater than 5 workers. All in short, Kiritsugu conflict mindset become his downfall.
As a Fate fan, I was always a bit disappointed in how Zero handled Saber’s character. It completely changed her character from stoic and war-hardened king of knights (who honestly should have gotten along fairly well with Kiritsugu, being pretty utilitarian and experienced in the art of war herself), to an overly chivalrous submissive character that gets emotionally scarred because a couple of other kings disagreed with her…
My favourite part of people discussing their ideas of “who was right” in F/0, is that it just proves the shows idea that no one person will look at the same situation the same as anyone else, especially on the matter of such a broad subject
fate zero is a masterpiece, but do you know what's also a masterpiece? your videos.
Death Note is the first thing that comes to my mind as a tragedy like you would describe. Because you watch Light's good intentions turn into a hunger for power as his world crumbles around him and Light, like Kiritsugu is constantly faced with a question of what to do even if he always chooses the same option. And even with the good intentions the major flaws in himself become more and more prevalent and take over, leaving Light a shell of himself that is filled with bitterness and arogance
"who else will I have ice cream with?" Line always make me lmao
Firstly I would like to applaud you on the amazing job with this review of Fate/Zero. I've watched a lot of reviews and discussion on this anime and yours is by far one of the best I've heard.
1) I would consider Fate/Zero a classic Greek tragedy even though I think my English teacher would object. I was so immersed in the story for episode 0, which many people didn't like but I thought was amazing.
2) I have yet to come across an anime that tells such a compelling and yet such a deeply philosophical story, but that might be due to the fact that I haven't been watching anime for that long
3) Kariya Matou the master of Beserker was the character that I connected to the most. He's determination to save Sakura from a horrible future, and him putting himself through all the torture to improve his magic skills to him having his mind destroy by having Berserker as his servant to not only lose the grail but be betrayed by Sakura who he went through an ordeal to try save. For me the betrayal by Sakura and him slowly losing his mind felt like the most tragic moment in a story full of tragic moments
How exactly did Sakura betray him?
od geo she didn't betray him. It's just easy to see her final scene that way. She saw his death a warning from "grandfather" so the betrayal could be seen as her choosing the worms over freedom because of her fear
I know. I am asking why they say it was betrayal.
Sesese Masondo She didn't betray him. She was probably so defeated/emotionally destroyed at seeing her last hope crumble that coldly distancing herself saved her sanity.
You are saying yet to find another story like zero. Then read berserk or watch 1997 anime of berserk. It is literally my favourite manga of all time. I really love every arc of berserk because every arc is important for development of his phenomenal main protagonist i.e guts. But Especially golden age arc which is adapted as 1997 anime is my favourite greek tragedy story of all time.
This was a really good video, very informative and well edited. While generally philosophy is a subject I usually don't get. I think I understood most of what you were talking about. It was a good video, your work is definitely getting better.
Also I just finished Fate/Zero like a month ago, but if I didn't I would have been totally shocked by the that beginning scene
Departed Reflections thanks man ^.^
haha lets hope everyone else wont be so lucky >:)
So..... you ever gonna do that video on The Distorted Shell that is Shiruo Emiya
another year has passed. this is almost as bad as waiting for maintanance in fate/grand order at this point
Maybe he's waiting for Heavens Feel to end which will be soon, hopefully
This video essay is one of the best I have ever seen on Fate/Zero. I will always come back to it, all these years later, as one of my absolute favorites. Thank you so much for making this masterpiece of a video!
This is great to see someone else draw a comparison between Greek Tragedy and Fate/Zero cause when I was in highschool I literally wrote a four page essay for school in an attempt to classify Emiya Kiritsugu as a Greek Tragic Hero lmaoo
Awesome video Eric! Really loving Anime Analytics! Never thought about Fate Zero in this light before. Gives me reason to rewatch it soon enough.
A really well-structured and well-reasoned analysis of one of the best animēs I have ever watched -- an analysis from which I've learned a thing or two, which doesn't happen all that often. Thank you very much.
Your channel is exactly what I was looking for, your two videos on my favourite anime shows (Psycho pass and Fate Zero) were very illuminating and enjoyable. Keep it up dude! This is great work you are doing!
It's kind of funny. Right after you asked the third question, picture of Irisviel appears... Which was exactly the answer that popped up instantly in my brain.
Seriously tho, for me she can easily be the most relatable character throughout all the anime I ever watched. She's not even human, but rather a homunculus, created with a single purpose. Purpose, that ultimately requires her death. And yet, she does not mourn this fact. On the contrary, she finds great joy in all the little things that happen to her along the road, she is happy to explore the world that Kiritsugu has shown to her, the world she have never seen, and was never supposed to see. She finds her own personality, love, and family - all in spite of the purpose she was created for.
However, you asked not only about characters, but ideologies as well, and one might say that Iri does not represent any ideology on her own, but rather absorbs and copies Kiritsugu's ideals without fully understanding them. After all, she herself acnowleged this... And yet, I genuinely think that there is more to it. For me, she represents faith, but not in some random god or or abstract ideas. She represent faith in people around you, tha ones you love and care for.
Also, just like Irisviel, I absolutely admire Kiritsugu, despite all the flaws that he has and all the terrible things he has done. The sheer ability to maintain all the good intention, even after he was touched by - oh well - all the world's evil, is marvelous. And while I do not have nessesary expirience to relate to Kiritsugu himself, I still find his ideas, however flawed, much better optinon that all the alternatives, presented in the show. In my expirience, people who refuse to choose between two evils, for example, end up simply supporting status quo, which is never good for the victims.
Well said! I didn't put much thought into Irisviel, but I find your points about her, especially that about faith, very true.
Great video man. Your analysis was extremely insightful. I probably relate the most to Saber or kiritsugu, if I could utterly save humanity from suffering and tragedy, I probably would, which is why it sort of hurt to realize that that isn't possible. Anyway, once again, great job with the video man, keep it up!
They do a good job of portraying the bleeding heart.
You sir deserve more subs. Bravo on the video.
This was amazing. ty for this.
Pretty thorough and clear video! Loved it
Don't know what to say besides that I loved the video. Great job, keep it up.
Fantastic video. Might be one of my favourite anime analysis vids. Really looking forward to seeing what your take on Fate Stay Night will be.
Great video. The element of tragedy I would say is what elevates Fate/Zero above the other works in the Fate franchise. Also, I absolutely loved that you added my favorite part from (quite possibly) my favorite Fate/Zero amv to the end.
Great video about one of my first and still favorite anime, despite my slight dislike of the ending. 1. Yes, under the definition presented in the video and most general definitions, Fate Zero seems like a strong modern example of classical Greek tragedy. 2. Evangelion and Code Geass come to mind, and a little bit of Death Note, although I feel Evangelion is the strongest in this case with its emphasis on choice at the end of the series. 3. I surprisingly related to Kariya Matou, due to his quest to attempt to free someone he cared for despite the pain it would cause him, only in the end to be done in by his own attempts at being a hero. Something about that speaks to me despite how tragic it is, and makes him probably the second most tragic character in the show, combined with the other despicable things he does along the way.
Your selection of music is beyond great man
Wow, absolutely well thought out. You just made my heart this close willing to shell out 300 dollars for a re-print for Fate/Zero coming out this fall.
This is also my favorite show (out of all entertainment I've consumed) and my introductory show into anime.
The ray of hope that shines more brightly than anything in this tragedy. Is RIDER! BROSKANDER. Live life to it's fullest. As you will find true happiness when you follow the beating (drum) of your heart. Live on and tell people about your kings last stand... aka. try to instil, light the burning flames of admiration within others. As you've been inspired, by your king, your role model, the person that inspired you. And always remember: GLORY LIES BEYOND THE HORIZON!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yet, when the dreamer wakes up, the dream disappears. And the horizon will never be reached.
Look at me, boy -- a fool who is aware he will never see Okeanos. You can call me stupid if you want. That is why I think I have the perfect Master.
chad dad
I truly loved how torn i was between hope and despair that this anime made me feel, this is one of my own favorite animes and always will. It was so hard to watch, knowing how no matter what was tried it would bring dispair, the main characters try to do what they thought was right, while knowing the truth at the same time. I felt this way also while reading and finishing the book ubik...
Wow I am so late, this is such a good video man. Thumbs up
A long time ago, I learned the story of Oedipus. It was sad about his story in the end, but what I enjoyed was the journey from the start until the end. It has this grasping and tragic revelation to it. When I watch Fate Zero, I can't shake the feeling that the series has that grasping tragedy. This video confirmed my suspicion. Great analysis, my man. I felt like I received a great revelation.
You sir, just earned another subscriber, this video was awesome, very insightful.'
1: I'm not sure if I'd call it a "return to form", but it definitely plays on that aspect, as does most of Urobuchi's work. I think you can find the makings of a Greek Tragedy in shows like Psycho-Pass and Madoka Magica, but that's just me.
2: Most of Nasu's work, like with Fate/stay night, Kara no Kyoukai, and Tsukihime. As for other anime I'd go with Evangelion, or Madoka Magica like I said above.
3: Kariya. While I find the ideologies of everyone fascinating, it was Kariya who I understood the most, being a person who martyrs themselves to achieve a noble goal, and the pain of watching that sacrifice being all for nothing.
I must have watched this video at least 10 times. Seriously man, good job
i liked this video, thank you random youtube recommendation feed
I applaud this video and it's structuring in how it stayed compelling as well as creatively reflective from beginning to end. I love when I get such well thought out depictions on viewpoints that touch on what made a series wonderful to a viewer.
Personally, there are three characters I adore from this arc of the Fate series I will comment on.
Iskander by far has become my favorite character in the entirety of the Fate anime. (Since the mobile game just has soooooooo many characters I'm gonna give it a head nod and leave it at that) And the reason Iskander is my favorite is a simple yet deep reason. His emotional depth and compassion. Granted, in the beginning he just seems like a loud and direct individual. Yet to just label him as only this borderlines on blasphemy in my opinion. Iskander as a Hero and as a person openly calls out to others to discuss and relate to. (Figuratively and literally) He genuinely wants to know others and see them for who they are at heart. And in turn wants to share his own ideals and passions in turn. He gives his Master, the timid and inexperienced Waver, a stepping stool to stand on and see what is beyond his limited view of all things. But overall, I love how Iskander has such a big heart. His emotion and compassion literally just reached out of my monitor and wrapped me in a hug. I felt a connection to a character simply because they held so much emotional depth. Something I don't get to enjoy that much anymore and was at the time starving for. So yeah Iskander is gonna be my favorite of characters.
Diarmuid Ua Duibhne. The epitome of a chivalrous knight of olden beliefs and honor. Majestic in his righteous duty to uphold those ancient yet priceless ideals. Living to serve and to make it your heart and soul. That kind of character depiction is rare when it comes to being properly depicted and executed. And I genuinely feel that this sharp and fierce loyalty that Diarmuid embodies makes him one of the best knight in shining glory characters I have seen in a series in totality. It also helped that he was brought to life by the talented Grant George to further emphasize those character qualities to perfection. So even though Diarmuid isn't my favorite Lancer of Fate (sorry that would be Cu Chulainn) Diarmuid is still a phenomenal character. I was captivated by him and his chivalry and genuinely wanted for him to be the one to find his wish fulfilled.
Kiritsugu is the last of the three characters I enjoyed. All because he is the literal embodiment of struggle and despair mixed in with masterful talent and will power. His character alone was compelling enough to have me binge watch Fate Zero in entirety from beginning to tear jerking end. (Well that and Matt Mercer did a brilliant job giving him emotional depth way to go Matt love your work) But to put it simply, Kiritsugu is both an uplifting example of hope against all odds and what it looks like when all hope is crushed. I cannot count how many times I had to pause the show just so I could take many needed deep breaths against the emotions that were tightening my ribs. And there were many times I got furious with Kiritsugu for how he played his end game to a fight or scenario. (not gonna spoil it too much but there were two big ones and both dealt with one particular Master seriously Kiritsugu I could smack you upside the head man) But it was his heart gripping tragedy and sorrow that made him one of the most compelling characters I have seen in anime or a series in general in a LONG time. And I tend to be drawn to tragic and sorrowful characters the most. (Examples: Vash the Stampede, Father Abel Nightroad, and surprisingly Itachi Uchiha despite the fact I loathe his brother Sasuke) And by far Kiritsugu is a character I find great favor in and see myself wanting to support as a person.
Great video. I love everything you do related to this series as it is my favorite too. Unfortunately I don't think I have the knowledge at this point in time to answer the first or second question. As for the third, probably Kirei and maybe Archer a little bit. Thanks for relevant resource material! I'll read it soon and hopefully come up with an answer. Keep up the good work :)
Oscillot Abhi, I swear to god, I'll translate your music in anime video to serbian if this continues :D
I appreciate the music in the background for setting the tone and this is the first video of yours I have watched so maybe this is fixed but the music is very loud.
Bravo! Very very well done. I always suspect certain anime appeals to the the thinking and reflecting type.
10:07 Perfect choice of setting, which is in tune of the series picking up the OP theme as Shirou's took Kiritsugu dream and Saber saw another chance of redemption. That redemption is shown more in the UBW more than FSN, as she goes through exactly what you said: catharsis. That concept is echoed in Viktor Frankl's Man Search for Meaning. Saber finally found meaning in her past choices, even in the resulting tragedies and regrets.
Naturally, I relate most to Arturia with much of past mistakes. I am biased, and thus to me F/Z is a Greek tragedy with the moral story of finding meaning , even in our mistakes and regrets, and moving on
0. Now that's a subscribe worthy video.
1. Yes, I agree with you that it is a return to classic Greek tragedy. Although the few pieces I still know about the concepts from school don't lend themselves very neatly to form a great argument about that.
2. Any other anime...Hmmm. I'd say The Song of Ice and Fire does something similar. But that's not an anime. But aside from that, I can't really think of anything.
3. Now, despite my arrogant behavior most of the time, I have not decided for a path I could as rigidly follow as most of the protagonists. But I always liked the Jester/Fool persona (No, not the arcana in the game, I mean Persona in it's actual meaning). I read somewhere that jesters where the only ones alowed to laugh over the king. And additionally, they had fun and brought fun, taking nothing too seriously, but didn't desolve into cynical everything is pointless depressive nihilism. I like that idea of living. Bring some fun, have some fun, laugh at the world. Granted, I didn't manage to quite get there yet and my cynical and depressed sides often get in the way, but I try to get there. It seems like a nice place to stay.
And what that makes me most similar to? Maybe a mixture of Alexander and Gilgamesh? Not the worst combination, I'd say.
i was completely taken away by Kirei and Gil, i loved seeing them on screen just being themselves - Kirei on the destructive war path to find meaning in his life and Gil just being...well...Gil XD them teaming up just sealed it for me. Kiritsugu was okay, i liked his character but he was completely overshadowed by Kirei for me in every way and Saber....well...i never really cared much for her, not the type of character i'm interested in.
So combine that and this show having no obvious main character / protagonist with the ending of this series, i was rooting for Kirei to win at the end with the final fight and that's what is great about this show, it doesn't present you with who's good and bad (apart from Rynuusoke and Gilles) it presents you with ideals and different attitudes and lets you pick who you're good and bad people are
0:00 I knew caster was gonna go ape shit, but I still can’t get used to this
Love this! it was very interesting and haven't really thought about all of this too much. Thanks for the awesome video!
ThaliaLizette You're Welcome ^.^
Code Geass?
Kenpu Denki Berserk?
Interestingly with Fate Zero, these are my 3 favorite animes.
I have never realized what was so appealing about this show, but now I get it! The bittersweetness of Greek tragedy. The feeling I had while watching the show was like watching carcrash in slow motion. Like the entire time you know that these people are probably going to die, ususally through fault of their own. It hurt, but it was fascinating.
As much as I would like to identify with him, I could only admire Lancer. First time watching Fate/Zero, I was really surprised by his loyality and devotion, since I had lost faith in those. Staying loyal to someone like Archibald required some self-control I am sure. He stole every second of screentime he was in. And his death, as you said, was indirectly his fault, which made it even worse for me.
Incredible analysis. You earned a life time subscription from me. Keep up the good work. I would like to remark on thing. Saber's character arc is really alike Kiritsugu's. The diference between the two is in which part they are. In her time, Saber already tasted the cruelty of the world and the weight of the desicions to save the many. In the path of saving Britain, she had to sacrifice entire villages of inoccent to win an important battle. That desicion was condemn by her followers but she didn't show any remorse despite hating herself for betraying her initial wish of saving ALL Britain. Finally, that path or ruthness was her demise her when her followers betray her for thinking that their king didn't have human feelings. It is the same with Kirtisugu, despite having the best intentions, the path he had taken for making true his pure but childish dream was his demise. When Saber was summoned and started to know how Kiritsugu is, it reminded her of herself. Because she was given a second chance with the Grail War, she didn''t want to take the same path of ruthness she embraced in the past and that is why she try to uplift her ideals in this new war. But she wanted to understant Kiritsugu and wanted to know if he was taking his path of ruthness to acomplish a greater good or because it was the most effective way. Because Kiritsugu was the same as her and didn't show regret (the path of the solitary hero) Saber never knew if it was for the greater good (Until FSN).
Again, incredible analysis.
To be honest, I would view Fate:Zero to be a modern greek tragedy.
This is because Aristoteles also set up some rules for his ideas of drama. First, the plot must be linear (no time jumps) then, there can only be one plot, not several others and finally, the drama must be in only one setting. Fate:Zero doesnt have these rules, therefore, in my opinion, it is kind of a modern greek tragedy.
Loved this video I believe I saw my self in the all the characters magicians and there servants.
Please make an extended video on this.
It's a shame this doesn't have more views. Overall great video!
It still hurts when I think about that Kiri clung onto a distorted sense of justice, until the Grail itself proved him otherwise, and he chose to destroy it; yet he still clung onto that, in front of a destroyed Fuyuki, looking desperately for survivors, anyone he could save... makes me wonder what would happen if he didn't stumble into Shirou 😔😔😔😔
To me, Gilgamesh is the character i see myself the most in. He's arrogant, stubborn, and a genuine hedonist, but he is also learned, and his hedonism takes the form of wanting to watch interesting stuff, people and ideologies (which makes him the perfect audience surrogate for a show like F/Z). In his manipulation, he creates the world he wants for himself, and in that, he finds contentment. This is also the likable part about caster: He does what he finds joy in, even when he knows the world is against him. Defining your own hapiness is certainly been an important part of my life for the last 3 years. This is also where i find Iskander to fall just a little short. While he is entertaining to watch, he is trapped by his own dream for a large part of the series, and at best, he's just a Great Big brother, and Kamina from TTGL honestly does that job a lot better.
Bøø9 Well said. I used to resent Gilgamesh strongly, but if you consider that his absence wouldn't remove tragedy in this setting, it's pointless to blame him and his arrogance for it. There truly is something to be said for the things we draw solace from, and perhaps that is the biggest takeaway from Fate - those who embrace the people they really wish to be are the ones with the happiest moments.
Nevflinn he grows out of his archer phase actually to become caster gil just think of him now as his teenage years
@@tribacioustee2846 Even granted that Gilgamesh's absence wouldn't have prevented tragedy, there remains a question whether his arrogance and disrespect (using others as mean) deserve denouncement.
@@gouhoh7906 That's not a question, of course it is. That's not good for anyone
I (probably) relate to Kariya the most since, I too would rather sacrifice myself for the people I love and care about.
He only used soccer as an excuse for an actuality only just wanted to do was kill tokimine and get with Rin's mom
MrAJcosplay I swear, this is the second time that I've researched something very recently (specifically on Wikipedia) that you've talked about in your video as a topic. The first one was Death of the Author, and now it's Hamartia. This is a really weird coincidence, synchronicity or something. :D
0T5C Maybe we're linked ;)
this video was so fucking good. i swear 1 month ago when i finished Fate Zero (fucking tragic)
i had so many vids to watch. love it so much
This is a great video, and im sad that i havent found it before now.
Beautiful analysis.
I actually cried at the 358/2 days scene when I first played the game :P
Aot of people did
Love the analysis! Can we please have that follow-up on Shirou, soon?
Excellent video.
3:27 really looks like lord el-Melloy II, a.k.a. future Warver Velvet. So, as one friend and subject of Iskandar, are future Waever recorded in Rider's noble? phantasm
I will always resent you for using the 358 ice cream scene for your point. As, like many I'm sure, you probably didn't play the game but just watched the "movie". Which was devoid of the character moments and build up to showcase that tragedy.
It's as good as showing some random scene from Macbeth to someone who's never seen/read it. Full of over the top acting and funny 'old timey' English.
As good as this show is I can never finish it due to my hatred for kiritsugu how alot of his details reminds me of someone I used to despise.
Cool video. Me likey your channel. Keep it up :)
Marvelous video.
Can I just say that Ive watch Zero so many times and yet i dread seeing Iskandar being killed?
ANN: How much control and input did you have over the characters who participated in the 4th Holy grail war? Did you sit down with Kinoko Nasu and discuss who would be added to the Nasuverse or were you given free reign to create any characters that were not previously established?
Gen Urobuchi: The process was that I drafted up a proposal for the new characters and the plot, and showed it to Nasu-san for his supervision. However, consequently, 90% of those proposals were accepted as they were already Nasu-san's ideas. As for character names, Hisau Maiya was only character name that I suggested. The other characters were all named by Nasu-san
www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2011-10-21/interview-fate-zero-screenwriter-gen-urobuchi
Not trying to discredit your video as you made a good video, I just want to make sure the proper credit is given as to who was responsible for Fate/Zero. Kinoko Nasu should be given credit aswell, not simply Urobutchi as he himself admitted.
EDIT: Whoops, looks like you did mention Nasu! I still think this information is relevant though so I am keeping the comment up for those who didn't know how integral Nasu was in terms of how Fate/Zero turned out.
***** Ah,, fair enough! Looks like I missed that part.
***** Verbatim say "Urobuchi and Nasu" 4:49 ...
***** Yup I was corrected already, I wasn't paying enough attention. I will leave the comment up though since it's good for more people to know that Nasu played a big part in how Fate/Zero turned out.
***** Yep Definitely . Nasu already created the world ,ending,rules and Kiritsugu's background for Urobuchi . Urobuchi should be judge by how he portrayed the masters and servants since thats his most important job on this series
Robz Sarmy l am fairly certain Kotomine's character arc during Zero was already thought up by Nasu aswell considering what is revealed about him in Heaven's Feel.
Dang, 9:00 to 9:30 made me start to cry, remembering that stuff.
Thank you for enlighten me
Anyone know the name/link of the version of To The Beginning used at around 12 minutes?
But you never answered the most important question:
Who will Roxas have ice-cream with?
The only other anime I can think of that comes anywhere near as close in terms of tragedy (not how much it made me cry, just how emotionally drained it left me) would have to be the Kizumonogatari trilogy. Like F/Zero, its a story where you know how its going to end as it is a prequel to Bakemonogatari, but the sheer depression I felt during that final movie's last moments, when Etoile E Toi started to play, certainly rivals how I felt after Zero. Not many people die, and only Kiss-Shot and Araragi suffer, but the suffering they do go through and the things that will happen later to build up their bond together really gets at me
This video deserves more views.
11:41 Someone please tell me how to hear that music!
I won’t drink now I’m freaking depressed
The reason im obsessed with fate^
there's just so much material to go through, and i love all the righteous characters
This video just blew my mind
Well, I've already watched it six times, but I between the FGO rerun event, lack of seasonal shows, and less options for going out, I guess it's time for a seventh go.
I think this video needs to be longer.
this is great
This is my 5,000th liked video
It is more than worthy
Very nice video. A few years ago I wrote an article about tragedy in regard to another one of the butcher's classics, Madoka Magica. The conclusion I came to then (and this was before Rebellion) was that Madoka has all the makings of a tragedy, but was averted at the 11th hour by Madoka's wish which kept just about everyone from completing their tragic fall. It would be interesting to revisit that idea after Rebellion given how Madoka's wish wasn't such a saving grace for Homura.
www.ign.com/blogs/fiercealchemist/2013/12/03/madoka-magica-as-a-tragedy-the-perfect-ending
Imagine the pain Kiritsugu went through, his wish couldn't be granted by the grail and after destroying it he basically killed 500(I think) people.
Well, as I'm wrapping up an essay about Seven against Thebes I just noticed kurei (pronounced kirei in greek, kinda) means "obtain", sometimes "recieve from the gods". So if you knew classic greek well enough you would've known from the start that the guy would win. lol
Fate/zero is more like: ah? yes! I know all this coarpses
Ah yes, Fate/Zero aka Saber Reverse Harem. But honestly this is the best one of all Fate series.
I am completely disagree with you. If you consider it is the best. Then i have to disagree with. My favourite is always stay night and Hollow Ataraxia. Because character of shirou really developed throughout the series like guts in berserk and understand how to understand and fight this world and find beauty in it. Hollow Ataraxia really show the humanity of fantastic character like lancer, bazzet, kuzuki, Medusa and especially Angra Mainyu.
Cleansing of excessive desire aka Greed. The Grail is corrupted from desires aka greed. The mud being the collective desires of humanity coming to destroy us.
Hey Cartoon Cipher!
Great video, but I am curious if you have any further scientific resources about Fate/Zero being a greek tragedy. I have to do a scientific work for school about why Fate/Zero is in many ways fairly similar to a greek tragedy. Would love to have more sources!
Thanks for the reply!
the funny thing about the type moon verse is not everyone dies when they are killed and that can be a really big problem.
even if everyone worked against the honor-filled characters, those characters still ended up fully living up to their ideals till their deaths. The unhonorable actions of others doesn't negate or make the honorable actions of others pointless. Dying with your own ideals intact is all that matters.
Lancer?
Pseudo-intellectual posturing? Maybe .....
The JuanTrueKaiser indeed...
The JuanTrueKaiser a show where historical figures are only characterized by name alone and proper character study was brushed over by riding the coattails of said names... yes, pseudo-intellectual meandering to it's truest form. I like Fate/Zero, had an endearing cast, nice fights and a dash of grey morality and nihilism sprinkled in BUT I would never take it to a philosophical plain. It's a great action show with more thought placed in it than most but the hardcore fans overwrought usage of semantics and unintentional apophenic analysis is why people discredit the show.
SilverVeil ..........when I said "Pseudo-intellectual posturing", I was referring to myself. Not the show >.>
MrAJcosplay and I wrote a detailed response regarding my thoughts on fans that overthink the show but you can ignore that if you want. cheers.
eh, I just thought he was trying to make the story of little red riding hood look like the Da vinci code. This doesnt bring anything pretinent, not discredting your work, it was nicely edited and it did had an engaging train of thought otherwise I wouldnt have bothered watching but it really is overthinking
Amazing video!!! And one question, can Tokyo Ghoul (manga) be considered a Classic Greek Tragedy?
I would love to read that thesis.