Gore-Tex vs Layers [Membranes] | Which is Better for Long Motorcycle Trips?
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2022
- What would be the best choice?
Gore-tex - vs Membranes, Which is Better for Long Motorcycle Trips? This is a good question, isn't it? In the following few minutes, I will share my opinion on this topic.
As a user and owner of both types of riding gear, I believe that I can tell you the pros and cons of each one of the options. This I hope will help you choose the correct riding gear for your type of trips.
Listen very carefully to what I am about to tell you because this might help you save money, even if you need to pay more in the beginning. So let's begin!
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Gotta love the eminently practical, pragmatic, no-BS way Slavic people (and especially you, Pavel) communicate. Great videos, very informative, and lets me leverage off your experience and mine combined. Thanks!
I have an aerostitch one piece riding suit i bought around 1997.. gore-Tex lined. Lots of vents, padding in critical locations, pockets, even two piece liner made out of polar fleece material, and a thermometer with a windchill gage.
I wore this suit commuting on my motorcycle 31 miles a day, six days a week optional overtime on Saturdays which I never turned down, eight months a year..
I would ride to work in lite rain or if it had rained overnight on various machines- klr 650 - vstrom 1000- two different Honda Pacific coasts(One of them got totaled while I was waiting at a stop sign from behind. The most profitable paid nine months vacation of my life. I actually had my aerostich suit on…)
I can tell you that these nylon suits with Gore-Tex, and Dakar style jackets that I had from Barbour and Belstaff In nylon and waxed cotton. The nylon ones do not stop the wind, and they are not waterproof for long. My aero stitch did not stop the wind.. and it was not waterproof. You got damp and musty in the rain..
I would wear the suit over my electrician uniform going to work in the mornings, and if it was cool or cold on the way home I would wear the suit over my widder electric vest….
having worked outside for a couple of decades, I can tell you there is no such thing as waterproof except for rubber. And rubber does not allow perspiration to escape so your feet get wet anyway. And rubber boots are no support. I don’t care what brand. You need a stiff sole..
treatments for boots do not last for long, not mink oil, not snow seal melted in with a hairdryer, not needsfoot oil, not clear silicone caulk mix with mineral spirits. There is no such thing as ware terproof treatment for leather boots that lasts ..I know this because my first 19 years with the electric company I work for, I was a meter reader here in Pennsylvania where it rains about 55 inches a year, and in the late 70s and early 80s we used to get around 60 inches of snow over the winter..
your feet do not get wet in the winter. They get soaked by 9 AM in Spring and summer grass from the dew.. I used unlined wolverine 6 inch boots when they made good ones. I kept three pair of boots and I would rotate them from one day to the next. I would dry them out with a whisper equipment fan every night with no heat or they would shrink and get hard , and then they would crack and separate from the SOLE..
if you’re just gonna occasionally ride your motorcycle and get caught in the rain or you’re just gonna walk from your car to the house through the grass once in a while, yes, your socks wont get damp.. but if you’re gonna walk through grass at least five hours a day, that wet/dry/wet/dry cycle takes all of the oils out of the shoes/boots, and they generally will crack. I’ve tried timberlands, Red Wings, Wolverines, Carolinas, and Herman survivors… I always kept my receipts and all of the tags that came with new shoes/boots that claimed to be waterproof. After about the third year, I never had to buy new boots again because I always took them back when they started leaking. Several stores told me they would not give me a new pair directly anymore, I would have to send them to the factory to get replacements..
The Gore-Tex works for a while in the motorcycle boots & work shoes but where your feet bend the shoes, that pumps air in and out through the pores of the Gore-Tex, and that breathing action pushes out air, and wicks in water..
.there were 135 of us meter readers, and we would exchange information about gloves and hats and longjohns and socks, and boots. No one I ever had a pair of truely waterproof boots that were actually waterproof for more than a couple weeks..
as for my aerostitch suit that I still have, I could feel the dampness coming through the pores of the suit in a heavy rain. It was especially clammy and uncomfortable if I rode to work in heavy rain, and then I had to put the suit back on for the ride home. I find that a coated nylon 2 piece rain suit is best for stopping the rain.. I carry my rain suits rolled up in a large sock, not in a plastic container that won’t allow it to breathe because the rain suit will start to get moldy and mildew if the water is not allowed to evaporate from the rain and you put it in a plastic container. As far as rain gloves that are Gore-Tex lined..I have several pair that are standard always carry equipment in my saddlebags with my rain suit on each machine. They don’t really keep your hands dry, they keep your hands warm and they won’t dye your hands like leather gloves do when riding in the rain..
so when you buy something that has Gore-Tex lining, SAVE the tags that came with it, save all that including the receipt because you’ll be taking it back when it starts leaking. If you buy from a small mom and pop store, they are less cooperative when it comes to replacing leaky boots or things like that. It’s best to buy from a large company that has a bunch of employees that don’t have any skin in the game…
by the way. The best commuter motorcycle I have had was the Honda Pacific coast. On my 1994 Pacific coast, I commuted on that one machine for 24 years. All I did was replace fluids and filters, and tires, and front brakes, when I sold it, it still had the original brake shoes in the rear.. Who needs a heavy 250 hp rear disc brake anyway..i’ve had dozens and dozens of motorcycles. in my opinion , The Honda Pacific coast is the most useful most perfect all-around motorcycle in the history of the universe. Dated, some old things like carburetors, twin shock suspension, but it had self adjusting valves, multiple valves per cylinder, two spark plugs per cylinder which meant it would run on Mexican gasoline in a pinch. It had, side stand and center stand, and that useful useful trunk.. zero hot air off of the engine or radiator no matter how hot it was outside. Pretty good protection from road splash riding on wet roads.Of my manymotorcycles so far, that was the best all-around most useful motorcycle..
my least favorite motorcycles. My GL 1800 Goldwing, simply because of how difficult it is to do just basic maintenance which I do all myself. And my BMW K 1200 LT. I am never going out on that BMW limb again. They sure ain’t what they used to be.. with labor at $125 an hour in a motorcycle service department now, motorcycles are getting too complex. You have to marry the dealer now if you don’t do your own work. The result of that is, motorcycles get neglected to death..
if you buy one of the top of the line motorcycles from just about any manufacturer these days. Including the purchase price, and interest , service department work and parts, by the time you pay it off, you’re gonna have between $35,000 and $50,000 spent on just one motorcycle..
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience!
I appreciate your very realistic perspective on relevant points all riders should be aware of. Cheers.
Much appreciated!
Excellent tip about wearing the liner outside.
Simple is genius.
Thanks for sharing
Happy, safe travels 👍
Glad it was helpful!
As a motorcycle courier of 30 years i found goretex to be the best all round waterproof material, i refined my riding kit over the years and a goretex touring coat with back protector, body armour and a lot of pockets and ex army goretex unlined trousers worked well all year round, with just a fleece and good long johns in winter. Workman's kneepads (preferably with a hard plastic shell) were effective knee protection and kept the freezing weather away from my knees. I usually spent £200_£400 on a coat and got about 4 years before leaking.
Don't forget i was wearing that 5 days a week up to 12 hours a day.
Thanks for sharing!
Can you list your gear and what they're called. From the jacket to the boots
@goodafternoonworld4456
I went through a lot of motorcycle gear as i was wearing it for work on a daily basis, when it came to specific brands, i didn't pick anything particular, i just went to a big motorcycle gear store or the motorcycle show and looked through what was available and how it fitted, pockets, armour etc. My only preference for branding is for Schuberth helmets because they are good quality and fit my head shape well. I got lucky and found some goretex ex army surplus trousers at a surplus store that were practically indestructible that cost £20 that i could wear all year round. German flecktarn trousers are good if you can still get them, they have built in braces and i still prefer hiking boots to motorcycle boots, they still protect my feet and ankles and are waterproof if kept polished occasionally. (Any boot with steel toecaps is a nightmare in winter).
Awesome explanation and very informative. Good job!
Glad it was helpful!
Well covered. I have recently switched to Revit gear from the various BMW stuff I have used the last decade because they seem to stand behind it far better.
Thanks for sharing!
Lovin the Dublin reg plate in your garage :)
Good!
Regarding the costs of Rev'It and other high-end gear companies (and I think it is true to some degree) in the US, we say, "Buy once, cry once," when it comes to buying the better brands up front. Good video! Very true!!
Well said!
I just drove across the US from the east coast to the west. I have the Revit' offtrack jacket. The rain membrane doesn't take up much room, and it's easy to stop and throw on the membrane of the jacket when it starts to rain. I like your idea of always wearing Gore-Tex pants. It is a PIA to deal with the lower half on the side of the road. I think I'm going to just buy the best vented Gore-Tex pants I can get for my trip to Alaska next year. I am still on the fence whether to go with goretex on top, or just stick with a lighter jacket and use the rain layer on the outside. Thanks for your content, I have found it very useful!
Good video. I agree. I have a Klim Carlsbad Gore Tex jacket and I ride in the mountains of North Carolina, US. On a summer day you may see temperatures as you climb go from 30 to 12 degrees. With my ventilated jacket I would need to stop to put on my wind proof jacket, then stop to take it off when it got warm. With the Gore Tex jacket I can just open and close zippers on the move to adjust for temperature. However on flat roads at more than 30 degrees ventilated is definitely the way to go.
Thanks for sharing!
All good points Pavlin. There is no one do all jacket especially for RTW rides. I use an Aerostich Darien Goretex jacket/coat. It is great. Keeps me dry. 30 plus it starts to get very warm, too warm. I'll use a mesh riding jacket with a waterproof liner then. However I lived in the desert at 40 plus everyday, it felt better with the Goretex on and zipped up and the helmet shield closed. Keep the heat out. I also have a Falstaff version which is a Darien cut jacket but constructed of waxed cotton, heavy grade with all safety pads in place. Warm and dry. I also use a Gerbings heated jacket liner. It is great and always have it for high mountains or cold snow weather. Above the Arctic Circle in the summer. So many but I have it down as to what works and carry only minimal wears with me. Years back and I still have this coat, A Motosport jacket with a membrane liner. Scholler material, top notch. The coat can be totally wet and heavy but the liner keeps me dry and warm. The jacket dries fast on the road but it is heavy when wet. I still like it but the Goretex is much handier. I hate stopping. If it is bad wet weather then there's another safety factor flag thrown because it is generally not safe to stop just anywhere to change clothes. Safe riding. RTW
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the review, I think you hit the pros and cons. I have used Rukka Goretex for about 8 yeard and maybe 180.000 km, and it is still waterproof. This year I purchased a Klim Carlsbad jacket, Gore-Tex and a lot of vents, it was perfect for traveling in Italy and France due to the vents. I hope the zipper in the vents will hold tight for many years, bud the waterprof zippers is something I am worried about.
Thanks for sharing
Very good mate thank you
Glad it helped!
That's great review,
Glad you think so!
Thank you a very good explanation
Glad it was helpful!
Very many true points Pavlin. Many pros and cons, it is almost an endless argument. You forgot to add that with your layer on the inside your jacket gets wet and holds the water and if you are traveling day in and day out you can't always dry it. In fact it gets slightly dangerous if the next day you ride with a wet jacket and it is wet again and the temperature drops, your body heat soon wicks away. I just spent 3 days riding in bad rain and on day 3 my boots got corrupted because I was too complacent about applying my waterproofing cream one night.
Thanks for taking the time, Chris!
Excellent point that is rarely discussed. The windchill factor of a wetted textile outer layer at highway speed can be very significant, even with the DWR in good condition and the inner layer completely dry. You can easily end up with windchill temperatures below freezing on days where you're not expecting it or dressed for it. A simple outer rain smock solves the problem.
Thanks for the video, Pavel! What might have been useful to mention is that one system you are talking about is Goretex laminated and the other one is (or can be) a Gortex layer (which can be removed). If I had not known the difference between the two, your video would have been less clear.
Yes, I should have said it, sorry!
Thank you for this video. Good points! Nevertheless, I started from 3 layers’ gear, then I went for a BMW gore text gear, cause I was tired of putting the wind & waterproof layer every cold morning while commuting. After 3 years I am going back to 3 layers’ gear, cause I found gore tex too cold in the mornings and too hot in the afternoons, so it didn’t work for me. And its weight and the stiffness was killing me. As you concluded - it’s an individual choice. Thank you for another video of Sand 4 - probably my next choice 😉
Tanks for sharing!
Thank you for this video Pavlin ! only this year did I switch from a multilayer to a goretex jacket and pants.( after 40 years of riding ) I went for, what is in my opinion the best, Rukka. As I do most my riding in Benelux, France and Germany, the chances of encountering temperatures of >30 are slim. In that case I have full Mesh gear with small foldable raingear in my lugage. Works just fine !
Thanks for sharing!
always good opinion to help people like me decide before I go thru USSR,,
Another great video. Gore tex per se should be breathable inside out and waterproof outside in. Without layers inside (you remember one of your previous videos), sometimes may be more comfy than mesh. I am also checking all the time what suits me best throughout the various weather conditions and altitudes. Fair enough, i found some clothing pieces from lesser known companies to offer outstanding gear, such as Belo and Spool, and came across really low quality Dainese and AStars boots, for example.
Thanks for sharing!
*_Its just Crazy how expensive Gore-Tex is. I can do without the Gore-Tex jacket and go with layers but I can't go without the Mesh Gear in the heat fo Northern Nevada. Thanks for sharing this._*
Thanks for sharing!
I wear a a raincoat over my protective jacket for rain and for cold. You would be surprised how much warmth it adds by blocking the cold wind.
I know what you mean.
Same here. I found a good waterproof rain jacket for $30 at Cycle Gear (no longer available). It is waterproof, doesn't leak and keeps the wind out completely. Fits nicely over my mesh.
Try Adventurespec gear for hot weather. It's amazing and your adventure rider audience deserves to learn about it.
I'll check it out!
One thing I might mention; I camp when riding (or just sleep in our riding gear, next to our bikes for quick naps) and find lighter colors show the inevitable dirt more (as if I care), even though they stay cooler than darker colors.
My best gear for the hot trips to the western Alps is Offroad Gear and an extra rain jacket in the back. Travel light!
Thanks for sharing!
There's definitely place for both.
If you know you're going to be riding in rain for hours then put a waterproof shell over any riding gear you have.
If you're riding in a climate where it might rain at any time, Goretex motorcycle gear will give you a "first layer of defence" that means you can either wait for the rain to stop or get to a place where you can put a shell over the top and continue.
If you're riding in a hot climate, wear gear that's as breathable as possible and have a waterproof shell ready to use on cold mornings or if it rains!
For maximum flexibility you can get motorcycle gear with a removable waterproof membrane which means one suit can cover all conditions. However my preference is having "hot weather" and "cold weather" riding suits and have some flexibility with each using other layers.
Thanks for sharing!
I had Klim Kodiak, that was 95% perfect, with tons of ventilation, the only problem was that the water came in through the collar...and sizing was a bit ackward. But agreed with your accessment here. I now have a Rev It Trench GTX, a Rev it sand 4 H20 and a Rev it Airwave mesh jacket for the really hot days. Always compromises, and that's why it's impossible to have one suit all year round :) Same with boots and gloves...
Thanks for sharing!
Greetings Pavel! Your channel is great. To avoid confusion, sand 4 is not equipped with a goretex membrane, but with an in-house membrane. The Defender 3 GTX is equipped with gore tex membrane and is almost twice as expensive as the sand 4 model. So I think the Defender and Dominator jackets should be compared.
But ok, the point is membrane or not. My opinion is that it depends on where you drive and in what season... I'm in Croatia, if you drive in the summer it's quite hot and it doesn't rain much. a better option is a well-ventilated jacket with membranes. in case of a short rain, you only wear a rain suit outside. if you are in, for example, the Austrian Alps, I think the better option is without a membrane due to frequent temperature changes and possible rain… there is a better option, for example Dominator. Revit is a very nice equipment, not too expensive or cheap. I think that everyone can find something for themselves. As for the membrane itself, I think that rain is not the problem, but breathing. it is important that it drains from the inside to the outside, and Goretex does this excellently. and that for the driver means that he will stay less wet due to sweat, not rain. I think that you should have quality equipment and that it makes the trip much more pleasant.
Greetings to all drivers, especially Pavel. 😁
Thanks for taking the time!
For me, Goretex worth the money! I have GTX boots and gloves and can't be happier!
Good!
For me living in South of France and riding a bit around the europe and africa there is only one... touratech companero. I've own one for 7 years and around 120000km and I'm very happy . Yes is expensive but whennis hot i put my mesh jacket and with the Rain or cold outer goratex jacket. For me it's a Winner . One set For all Weather .
Thanks for sharing!
Alrighty .. although I do wear Gote-Tex winter boots, the membranes approach keeps me warmer and more dry. And that's a good thing when you're riding in the cold and wet.
Absolutely!
Motolegends in the UK have very good videos covering the differences between the types. Drop in liner, laminated and loose membrane. The suggestion is that a loose membrane is best…worn outside the jacket when in rain.
Fair enough!
This is the way
Thanks!
Good video. I've got an all in one water proof suite made by Frank thomas which folds up really small and easy to put on. £49 in the UK. Job done and it's hiviz 🤣
Thanks for sharing!
You should consider Mosko Moto style layering...for top...light Merino t-shirt (optional), dirt bike style light body armor ( modular systems available) with back, shoulder, arms, abd chest protection...very light motocross style loose fitting shirt over that to look presentable (if needed)...then, depending on expected conditions pack a lighter or heavier goretex/membrane shell to wear over that....add a fleece or down vest if things get really cold. Check out Charlie Sinewan who now uses this type of system on his long term travels....initially he used the more traditional system of armored jacket as described in this video. I personally use this system and find it works really well over a wide range of temperatures and humidity...to save on the packing bulk you can go as light as possible on the goretext/membrane over jacket, since it will mostly live rolled up in a Pannier until needed. Mokso's quick on and off gorerex Ponch style rain jacket is a compromise between packability and protection while providing excellent rain protection....no front zip area to leak.
I will check it out.
Always the raincoat on the top. It is better for the jacket lifespan also. Gore-Tex for the average motorcyclist is very very expensive and you have a point that you will buy it once. Still for countries with mild winters you can live without it. Gore-Tex in boots is something though you cannot skip... Thanks Pavlin great video again! You are the top of the top honestly!
Thanks for taking the time, Chuck!
After 35 years of all weather riding, I'm sold on the waterproof over shell, especially on a long trip. I go merino vest, Knox urbane, Adv Spec Linesman and a Klim over overshell Hot, lose layers, cold, add them. On TET and ACT Portugal the temperatures ranged from 4 degrees in the mountains to 40 degrees. I was glad for my down jacket!
@@TheIdlesurfer Why do you add the Linesman as well?
@@mikoshnanasi4366 I like layering. Last year in Portugal on the TET and ACT temperatures went from about 4 degrees to about 38 degrees. The Linesman is a good evening jacket, off the bike. I do not have armour in the Linesman. I think the jacket is too loose to keep armour in place. So armour is in the Knox. If it is hot, I wear the knox alone, with a wicking long tee underneath. If it is cooler, a merino long vest. If it is really cold, a down jacket goes on, then the Linesman - that is fine to around 6 or 7 degrees. Then I can stick the Klim waterproof over the top, that stops windchill and then that is good to where I stop riding - which is around freezing point. The Linesman gives an extra layer of abrasion resistance, wind proof, shower proof and easily opens up for venting. I spend more time in the Linesman and urbane than any other riding kit.
@@TheIdlesurfer Thanks for the reply.
I’ve been looking at changing up to layering as I think this really is the best way to go.
I was thinking about starting with a good wicking shirt and then either the Knox Urbane Utility or the Adventure Spec Supershirt although I’m not sure how keen I am on the way the Supershirt shirt zips up and it looks like it will be hotter than the Urbane.
I was just going to throw a down jacket on top of that and then some sort of waterproof and never really considered The Linesman as well as I thought of it as another armoured layer.
Laminated (Goretex or another quality alternative) with the best direct to skin ventilation for the pants, agreed. Hassle with layers inside or outside pants is not fun by the side of the road. For upper body I've gone the direction of layering after trying all the alternatives over the years. So a Base layer with Level 2 protection included, e.g. AdventureSpec Supershirt or Knox or Bowtex or Leatt. Then only a shirt on top of that if it's hot. And according to wetness or coldness carry a light but warm insulating layer, maybe even a heated layer, and a light but very waterproof rainlayer. This is the setup I like the best out of all the things I've tried.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the interesting information Pavlin.
Please tell me about the item on your wall that looks like a hand protecting from "slings and arrows"
If you mean the wood working, it is made from my father many years ago. It is a hand that stops a few guns. The name was freedom.
I agree with you. I love my Klim Kodiak 3 layer goretex set. I made it to 54000 km and it is still excellent. What do you think about the Lightweight, breathable protector underjacket/jersey jacket from revit ? You can add a raincoat or layer to keep warm.
I never use it and cannot talk about it.
Hi Pavelin, I just found your channel and I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I got back into biking after a 9 year hiatus, last November. I still have loads of my old kit (though BMW kindly exchanged 3 helmets for brand new ones because the “seat belt” style chin fastening had a recall. Anyway, my kids bought me an airbag jacket for my 60th birthday (which my RT was my present for). The idea of the airbag is great, the jacket it was equipped for is probably the worst jacket in history. It’s an RST Paragon 6 Airbag. RST are a British company and if this jacket (and trousers) are anything to go by the rest of the gear must be sh1te! It’s so badly thought out, for example, the way the jacket connects to the trousers, the zip interferes with the waist adjusters. The cuffs of the jacket don’t have a zip, only cheap “velcro” (not real velcro). This makes it virtually impossible to get winter gloves under without a real rigmarole.
The main jacket zip snags and won’t do up without a fight, because of poor quality control, then the worst bit of all is the cheap membrane Sinaqua. I urge all riders never to buy anything but Goretex. The sh1tty RST jacket’s Sinaqua means in the height of winter, I arrive at work with the inside of the jacket soaking wet with sweat. The jacket was brand new last year when I started commuting to London (320km round trip). On my last bike, between 2006 and 2013, I covered 80,000 miles (128,000km) on road. My BMW goretex kit which I used from 2006 to 2008, never leaked once, nor did I ever sweat my @rse off in the winter in winter it. I switched to the Atlantis 4 suit, which is leather with a hydrophobic treatment. I’ve been to Scotland in 4 hours of torrential rain in the Atlantis, and it never leaked once, and that was without a Goretex membrane.
I think the lesson to be learned here, just like in life, if you want the best, you have to pay for it. (I’m not saying BMW kit is the best, but that my experiences of it have been positive). My main problem I have now, is over the last 9 years, my weight has increased and I can still get into my BMW kit, but the trousers especially need me to lose 5 or so kilos! I would never ever recommend RST kit to anyone. Admittedly, I have always had a highly efficient cooling system, meaning I will lose litres under exercise or in hot weather, to the point where I need to drink 5 or 6 litres a day and take potassium tablets to prevent cramping. As for the airbag, once I lose weight I will buy the airbag vest and put it under my BMW kit. I currently need to lose 5cm around my waist for it safely deploy…..or I could just buy some new bmw kit!
So sorry to hear about the bad purchase. This RST has in my opinion the best airbagsystem (In&motion) available today, yet it is inseparable incorporated in what seems to be a bad jacket. I have this exact same airbagsystem for over 4 years in a lightweight stand alone undervest from ixon and it is perfect. I can use it with any jacket over it. ( I prefer the REVIT Tornado ) . I don't need to buy a backprotector for any jacket I use, since it is already incorparated in the light mesh airbagjacket. My recommendation is to always go for a lightweight stand alone airbag underjacket. In summer : Tshirt, airbag and complete blowthrough jacket ( my Tornado without liner) . It doesn't get any better to ride safe yet ventilated.
@@gvybin I shall look at the Ixon version. I agree, the in&motion seems to be the best. It’s a far better system than the tethered Helite, and much more cost efficient than the Dainese and A-Stars.i was looking at the Held version, but if there’s more mesh with Ixon, I’d prefer that, thank you.
Hi, Pavlin! I am considering buying the Helite adventure jacket with the built in airbag. It is a bit more expensive than the airbag vest itself but you have the ability to use the ventilation holes and pockets. On the other hand, if I buy the airbag vest, I will be able to use it on multiple jackets and in long term it will survive many years. It will be interesting to hear your opinion on to help me with my choice. All the best and from next year I am coming back to live in Bulgaria, will be glad to host you in the Dryanovo region.
Здрасти, Георги,
якето на Helite не е добра опция. Посредствени материали и дизайн, с една дума нищо особенно. Моя съвет е да купиш само жилетката и да я ползваш с много други възможности.
TBH, 1k to 2k EUR for a jacket is pretty expensive for the Western market as well. It may be more affordable, but it's still in the high range and too expensive for a lot of guys.
Now, when it comes to Summer - I have two jackets, one all year round and one specific for the Summer. The all year is nice, ventilation at all but it's simply too thick for temperatures over 30 degrees. A side note here: if it is that hot, then usually the rain is also rather warm and somehow less of an issue temperature wise - but the intensity might still be a huge problem.
Also, I ride with the HELITE air vest at all time so the ventilation will be a bit compromised in any case.
Now, thanks for the topic as I'm considering whether I should go for gore tex, or not. Nothing urgent, but it's still good to know.
As always, thank you for the video!
Any time!
Hi Pavlin, you should check out Rev'it Defender 3 GTX jacket and pants. It is very similar to your Sand 4 but with a Gore-tex membrane insert! Still pretty expensive but less so than the Dominator.
I work at a motorcycle clothing store and revit is my favorite brand! Not cheap but the quality is exceptionally high.
I know very well defender model.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I liked your idea. Gore pants and regular jacket with waterproof top. Problem is that waterproof = sweat inside. On rainy summer days I’m wet not because of rain but rather sweat. Any suggestions about Gore top layer? Something like skiers are using or hikers?
I told you my opinion about the layers in the video.
I want to know more from the goretex suit over 40c you told that is better , interesting .
I think manufacturers would do well to offer non goretex models without the liners. I don’t use the ones in my Rev’it gear. When it’s raining I have an overcoat an pants that work exceptionally well to keep me warm and dry, and they pack up small. Doesn’t look pretty, but not going for style points when it’s raining out.
Fair enough!
Love your channel ....
Love your presentation brother ...
All is troooooo and sweet ....
U R a good teacher . .........lots of love from south india .
God willing I want to meet you Brother . Cheers till thn... Chal👍👍👍👍
👍👍👍👍.....
Thanks, man!
Goretex keeps bulk down as that’s two less “layers” that have to go on the jacket (with Goretex Pro, that is.) My rev’it Sand 3 with all the layers gets real bulky. Base and mid layers work better as discreet items. Only downside is obviously the cost
Agree!
I think it's probably the best solution to just have an outer waterproof stashed, then a light weight protective jacket, most of the time. I guess with Gortex you just don't have to stop, however, it's not much trouble to throw the overcoat on if it looks like rain.
Whatever works for you!
That Revit jacket is the best I’ve worn in a lifetime of riding. Does not let water through at all. Worst jacket I’ve ever owned was a BMW jacket which had a separate goretex inner liner. Water goes straight through the outer, runs down the liner then into your gloves. The Dominator is very heavy when you pick it up but no problem when on. Other problem is that it has no warm lining and you might need to consider a larger size if you want to wear a down liner. One other issue, it is a slim euro fit and great if you are slim with long arms. The KLIM jackets are made for chubby yanks.
Well described!
Gore-Tex needs not just to be washed, but treated. You have to wash then spray the jacket with a waterproofing product. Another thing about the expensive riding coats is the incredible protection you get on them. D3O, Kevlar, etc...Its a big part of the weight, and why I only ride with my heavy Gore-Tex gear.
Thanks for taking the time!
I haven’t washed my Goretex Rukka jacket in 4 years. Still water tight.
Hi, great review. Anyway, I am confused because I am unsure what Revit model would be best for me. What do you think about the Poseidon 3 GTX vs The dominator 3 GTX , Which is better and if you have to choose one, what would you choose?
Dominator!
I always wear gtx…in summer I pack a mesh in case it gets up over 30.
Thanks for sharing!
In hot and/or dry climates I use a mesh suit & carry a goretex 2 piece rain suit
In cold and/or wet climates I use a goretex suit & I carry a goretex rain jacket (for the really wet/cold days) & goretex over-gloves (indispensable!!)
Nothing else, for me, comes close
Thanks for sharing!
Hello guys!! This was a cool video! Congrats.
Anyone knows what model is the black revit membrane that is mentioned in the last part of the video in the 14m 30 s?
Thank you ✌🏼
It is from Sand 4
@@motorcycleadventures thank u for the information!!
Gore-Tex can be laminated (attached to the inside of the outer layer) or used as an internal layer. When laminated, the outer layer is stiffer, less comfortable, but also waterproof. When used in an internal layer, the jacket will be more comfortable but the outer shell will get soaked in the rain. The water will not make it all the way through but allowing the water to get closer to your skin will make things cold and wet due to sweat condensing.
Also note that when laminated, the Gore-Tex layer can be damaged if the outer layer is mechanically distressed. This is because it is attached to the outer layer and requires a solid outer layer to provide mechanical support. A Gore-Tex membrane will be more durable in most scenarios as internal layers are generally well protected.
The type of membrane means nothing as Gore-Tex is no longer patented and plenty of manufacturers make equivalent products. It is how the waterproof membrane integrates into the piece of clothing that makes the difference. Is it laminated or not - Gore-Tex can come in either form.
Thanks for the info!
Hello Pavlin, what would you recomend for a trip that is about 60 days with cold (alaska) and hot (Arizona desert) temperatures??
Gore-tex with good ventilation.
GoreTex, eVent, and DryStar are all examples of waterproof/breathable "membranes." There are two ways to make garments waterproof and breathable. When you use a "membrane" like those I mentioned, there is a thin "membrane" laminated to the parent fabric. In a three-layer membrane fabric, there is the parent fabric, laminated to that is the waterproof membrane, then there is an inner liner fabric bonded to the membrane to make it softer to the touch. A two-layer membrane includes only the parent fabric, and the waterproof membrane. It feels like plastic against your skin and is more delicate. It does however breath better in most cases.
But, a "membrane" is a type of layer bonded inside any waterproof and breathable garment.
Ok
How do you keep your revit suite so white?
I’ve got the dominator 3 gtx and after 2 months it’s already looking like crap 😂😬 yes, even after the washing machine
By the way, revit says it needs to be 20 minutes in the dryer after washing to reactivate the membrane.
It is white only on camera!
A great video.... again!
The first pants and jacket I bought had a cloth/mesh outer layer, with a zip in/out waterproof liner, and a final quilted zip in/out liner. This sounded great UNTIL the first cold day when it rained heavily.
The jacket now soaking wet weighed twice as much, and the quilted liner was also soaked from my own sweat because the "waterproof" liner was not breathable. Picture a plastic bag.
On another trip riding in only the mesh outer shell in 114F/46C temperatures with minimal water because I did not have a water bladder and hated to stop every half hour to drink I was almost hospitalized from heat exhaustion/stroke due to being dehydrated. Later, learning from your videos, how riding in mesh is worse in hot temperatures above 98.6F/37C. I still remember your comment in your video "You will dry up like a small fish".
Like you said in this video, it is an absolute pain in the butt to stop on the side of a busy highway, dismount, remove what you have on (including having to remove your boots if you are changing the pant's liners) to zip in and out of all the liners as the day's weather changes....plus storing all the liners on the motorcycle. In my case I had a 20 litre bag just for the liners!
That budget suit was sold and a 100% Gortex suit replaced it. It is fantastic even with all the pros and cons you listed.
Now, if the weather changes, all that is required to be done is open or close vents. Most of these vents can be accessed while still riding so you do not need to stop as often too.
Keep up your great information.
Glad to hear that my advice helped! Thanks for sharing your experience!
The price for the Revit is prohibitive and is not the ultimate riding jacket. With that prices (2000E) you can buy 3 very good jackets from other brands. Regarding the waterproof issue, for me the raincoat is a fail safe option.
Safe rides for all of you !
Use whatever is good for you.
The problem with having 2-3 jackets and going on a long trip is that you simply can't carry them all with you and have to make a compromise. Having different gear for different conditions is best, but this applies to 2-3 day trips.
@@georgibakalov9922 Of course it was an hipotetical solution.... If you have 2000Euro you don't buy 3 similar motororcycle jackets... a multilayer jacket + a raincoat is fail safe ;)
Best rides for all of you !
Hi Pavlin - what is the difference between the Defender 3 GTX and Dominiator 3 GTX because they are both GTX but your one Dominator is a lot more expensive? Thanks
3 layers of laminated gore-tex for Dominator and a few more features.
Is it better to take a black jacket? A jacket gets less dirty if it's black.
👍
Thanks!
Very very good review, as usuall !
But my personal opinion is: If you take long adventure jurney, no metter what kind of astronomic price GTX gear you might have, the raingear always should be in the bag, 1kg more ore less apsolutely it isn't matter.
Fair enough!
Goretex brand membranes have very few functional benefit over other brands, most of the "performance" benefits between any membranes are quickly lost due to poor cleaning of the fabric or maintenance of the water repellent finish. breathability will almost always end up winning out because once you become wet drying out becomes more critical. brands like Event will dry and keep you dry longer than goretex from your own perspiration. staying warm becomes more key after the inevitable, layers of quick drying synthetic material like polyester fill puffys or even just thin base or lightweight mid layers become critical. even goretex claims of durability are not as important base because the laminate materials used have to be up to the task, sometimes they are but not always. plus if you are not being active and generating a temperature/pressure gradient to allow the breathability to occur the ratings begin to suffer greater inadequacy. while "special" soaps are made (and not very pricey) for these types of garments even basic soaps like castile soaps will work as long as they are thoroughly rinsed away. not all waterproofing sprays are equal as they may clog the fabric and those labeled(dwr) for use with goretex or similar should be used to maintain breathability and a good drying helps set the dwr across the fabrics face. i choose a non waterproof laminate outer jacket for riding cause breathability for me is so critical and still treat them with a dwr wash in product. layers have so much more versatility at significantly less cost. thanks for another great video.
Thanks for sharing!
Gore Tex is the BEST. I Have Gortex boots, pants and jacket. It can rain shit and I'm staying dry. I once rode almost 800km in rain without goretex clothes and I had puddles in my boots and I was freezing to hell because everything was so wet. I felt so miserable that I will never ride again long trips without Goretex stuff on.
Thanks for sharing!
One more thing to consider. Some outdoor gear brands are refusing to use Gore-Tex because of its environmental impact and the fact that it's a chemical substance that never really disintegrates in nature. They are going to be here forever. Also. The video is about goretex vs membranes but there are also goretex membranes. It migth cause some confusion. I personally keep a regular rain coat with me. Even if rain doesn't get inside you your jacket will be wet and heavy. I can just shed the raincoat and the jacket will be (mostly) dry.
Thanks for sharing!
GoreTex is a membrane or laminated layer. The ultra-thin layer that is GoreTex is too delicate to be used on its own, so it has to be laminated to a parent fabric. GoreTex, like eVent, DryStar, and a dozen other "laminated membranes" are all made the same way. These laminated membranes are just as you say, made of PTFE synthetic materials that are not very enviromentally safe.
And also as you say, titling this as GoreTex OR Membrane is confusing as GoreTex is a laminated membrane fabric.
@@christophenoel8402 Thats exactly what I was hoping to find out in this video, looking at jackets and they all mention gore-tex (or just waterproof) membranes, some removeable, some laminated, and I thought I just wasnt able to find a jacket that was "made of" gore-tex, so cheers for clarifying that
REVIT Sand4...end of story...even my 12 year old Sand 2 suit still keeps me dry...not cheap... either is a GSA.
Good!
I never understood the point of an inner liner. Your jacket will be soaked in the evening, including all the stuff in the pockets. Phone, wallet,...
Either gore tex, or rain Membrane OVER the jacket, Just as you di it.
When it is rainy AND cold, i use gore tex + rain jacket combined. Often skip the rain trousers, too bulky over the gtx trousers.
Exactly what I do.
Yes, some can be a pain in the ass!
Absolutely!
The inside layers that you can zip in are kind of silly. I don't use them.
The rain layer should go on the outside, not in the middle.
I agree!
Rain suit maybe..
How about waterproof membrane that stays in one of the pockets on a jacket? Then when its starts raining, you simply take it out and wear over your jacket? Totally waterproof, not that difficult to take out and put on, don't need to carry it separately. Takes literally one minute. Have it with my alpinestars halo jacket, seems like the right solution... Pants - not so much. I'll probably end up getting gore-tex pants. Too much trouble wearing something over, especially when it's raining
Agree!
What about laminate motorcycle jackets and pants
If you mean laminate Gore-tex, this is exactly what I have.
@@motorcycleadventures thanks for your reply , I taught they different type off motorcycle clothing,, closer to fishing gear,
Gore tex works if the outer fabric is clean and impregnated. Which it is the first times you use it.
And its not waterproof especially not when you sit on it. And the breathability are close to zero.
IMO Gore tex can (should) be avoided.
Cannot agree, but...
It is like a house... you have to isolate it from the outside...not from the inside 😊
True!
The area were water always creeps in is around the crotch, it runs down the front of the rain jacket and the pools right at the crotch, I'm hoping goretex pants will solve this cause no rain pants I have ever bought have kept the rain out there.
True
Gortex over layer, Or Gortex membrane. ?
Its always better to use a gortex seperate layer, not built in membrane. More versatile. In different conditions. You cant remove a Gortex membrane.
It comes with the same negatives of the other layers.
@@motorcycleadventures We all agree you require a waterproof layer when touring. In my experience (30 years Africa, Asia and all of Europe) A removable, good quality Gortex worn over the top is much better than any laminated membrane waterproof layer. Why? Because it can be removed for hot weather.
Any waterproof layer worn over the top will do the same job. No need to be Gore-tex.
@Motorcycle Adventures Gortex will allow a margin for humidity from sweating. A 100% PVC coating for example would make you wet from the inside. Gortex is expensive, but it performs.
Nothing lasts forever. Even Gore-tex start leaks after a few hours.
When traveling between mountains and valleys, you may have hot summer temperatures, to winter conditions in a matter of hours. So one jacket has to do all this work, unless you want to ride with an enormous amount of gear that detracts from the experience.
You failed to mention that some Goretex is baked right into the shell, and some is in between the shell and liner as a separate layer. With the separate layer you will have a lighter, and more maneuverable jacket. Not as heavy but still waterproof and breathable.
Zippers will eventually fail.
You also failed to report on the difference in armor protection with the different jackets.
Goretex rules! In my gloves, boots, jackets and pants. There are other products like Goretex that can work as well.
But buyer beware, some of these products don’t work as well, but some do.
That's why I prefer my Gore-tex gear. It works in any conditions. More or less the protection is the same for every jacket.
Goretex is a membrane. I’ve been to the gore facility in shenzen so I know what I’m talking about. Event is better
It is, but I am sure that you get the idea.
Just buy a nice big air conditioned 4 WD and travel round the world in style, if you get tired just lay back and have a snooze, no more worries about goretex or layers!🤣
Fair enough!
😂 You have to be crazy to spend that kind of money 😂
It is not a problem, if you have it!
@@motorcycleadventures to each his own.
Er...Goretex IS an membrane. By "membranes" do you mean liners?
Honestly, I am not convinced by your arguments regarding the guarantees. You don't make it clear if you got a replacement of the previous jacket by the Gore warranty (life warranty) or the Revit warranty. The fact that you are sponsored by Revit may clarify something. It is not clear if you recommend the garments of this manufacturer because the replacement is assured for any customer. Besides, Gore's lifetime warranty is not what many may think, that warranty covers the correct functioning of the membrane (which is not, far from it, 100% waterproofing). I think that wearing a jacket with a membrane, Goretex or another, for high temperatures is a very bad starting idea.
A layer on the inside doesn´t make sense IMHO. You sweat and it doesn´t transport this to the outside when it is warm. When it is cold and raining the jacket gets soaked in water.
It is pure marketing to put these liners on the inside - if you just use an outer shell which costs around 80 EUR you wouldn´t be able to sell stuff at the mentioned price point of 2k EUR. For a jacket!
Just saying... ;)
Fair enough!
Last con on Gortex, its like a nuclear plant waste. Cannot not be recycled and it's none biodegradable.
Because gtx are generally better quality they last longer. Less landfill. Tips are full of cheap membrane gear. Bought my gtx gear 6 years ago…still good.
@@jamesridgeway7799 gtx is way over rated and doesn't last as long as you make out !
@@jamesridgeway7799
What happened to the garment that leaked and returned by Pavlin? I bet there's alot more returns
@@expatbiker6598 not my experience. 6 years so far.
@@expatbiker6598 did you know that gtx is a licenced brand? It includes quality control standards and a 5 year warranty. Try taking your 2 year old membrane gear back on warranty. I have endured leaky gear for much of my riding life. My current gtx gear does not leak.
gore tex = $$$
True
Goretex IS a membrane
Yes
Washing machines destroy other membranes the same way they destroy goretex.
Any breathable membrane will be damaged if you don't wash it properly.
Membranes are absolutely dogshit. I’ve learned that expensive lesson.
Goretex is essentially watertight. There’s no competition.
Thanks for taking the time!