Revisiting Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure (Major Spoilers)
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Revisiting Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure
It's no secret that Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure collectively as an arc are what I consider to be the best of the Trails series thus far.
And fortunately I was able to play it one more time in it's current best form with the Geofront patch around 2 months a go. This was my third playthrough of both Zero and Azure, and it will also be the last time I play both games as I don't intend to play the official versions, merely to purchase them.
So in my final playthrough, I wanted to establish the reasoning as to why I hold Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure in such high regard, what specific reasons or examples from both games tie in with what I consider to be a top tier JRPG experience.
Major spoilers in this one, hope you enjoy.
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0:00 - Intro
2:07 - What Makes a Story?
2:57 - Setting the Stage
4:35 - Escalating the Issue
7:05 - Pacing
10:20 - Executing the Premise
11:34 - Characters
17:17 - Optional Events
19:27 - Conclusion
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Music Used:
Zero no Kiseki OST - Afternoon in Crossbell
Ao no Kiseki OST - A New Daily Life
Zero no Kiseki OST - Special Support Section
Zero no Kiseki OST - Scene of a Street Corner
Ao no Kiseki OST - A Victims Past Wish
Ao no Kiseki OST - A Barrier to Get Over
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Still the best Trails has to offer.
I'm on Cold Steel 4 right now, having played all Trails in order - I completely agree with you thoughts and judgement here.
Maybe we can just agree That all of them are amazing? that's what i think about the series. There is no bad flaw with any of the games and if there is one, then i don't have any problem with those, at least in my opinion.
I still think The Azure Arbitrator is the best final boss theme in the series, though.
@TheCynic Where I could see that video again? I forgot to mark it.
Nah.
@TheCynic It's fine. I just never liked these sort of videos. I'm just saying that in my opinion all of them are great games.
Zero and Azure - one of the best jrpgs ever made.
Ah, this was a nice trip down memory lane. Honestly I don't know if Falcom can achieve what they did in Zero and Azure ever again. Although I'm one of those that like the first 2 games of the series most, I can't argue that these 2 games were the highest the series has been to date. As for Cold Steel, I can understand that they wanted to appeal to a wider audience but that came at a deep price, I'm hoping that they have had enough attention diverted their way so they can go back to how they used to making their stories.
Amazing video as always:)
I've heard great things about Kuro, and I still love all the other arcs. Though Crossbell is still the peak, the quality is more than consistent throughout all of the games.
Man, the Crossbell games were so good... Cold Steel still is my favorite, because I just love op characters, but Crossbell really makes me reconsider sometimes. I went into Sky thinking ''Those guys are exagerating, they just prefer it over Cold Steel because of nostalgia factor and blah blah blah'' and... as expected, I still prefered Cold Steel. Don't get me wrong, Sky is amazing. I didn't really like Estelle as a character, but I understand why other people did. I also understand why people wouldn't like Rean. Now, I went into Crossbell thinking the same thing... and I got out of there really questionning if Cold Steel was so good. Lloyd was such an interesting character. I like when characters have something unique to them and practical. Rean was a practitioner of the Eight Leaves and that was cool. Lloyd ended up having amazing deduction skills. And that was almost as cool to me. Like, seeing him at the begining of the game, ignoring important hints, and then at the end of Azure, where he understood everything the player did was amazing. Randy and Tio had really good backstories as well that really fleshed out the Trails world, and Elie was fun as well. It was as small gang, but really that's what made it so fun. Anyways, I could go on a while talking about those games, so I'm gonna stop here lmao.
Just finished Ao a few weeks ago; masterpiece for sure. Cried only 9 times
Truly..Zero shows you the barriers and the hope that shines that you can overcome them a stunning buildup showing you crossbell's situation and the fact it's the SSS that will have to make a difference because they were chosen for it gives you the feeling of "progression" on your very first mission you see some of the best the bracer guild has something you feel is way too far ahead to reach but you have to do it step by step your efforts are surely recognized by the citizens earning you a respectable position that you earned through teamwork and the determination to shatter the barrier.
And azure brings it to a magnificent finale by showing how everyone learns about everything that's going on because the main plan has come in outside play, and that everyone has to push through with the odds stacked against them by using the knowledge they learned and the strength and experience they gained to show that the barrier they had in front of them since so long can be broken..your description of the crossbell games is spot on and helps us understand the key details..even I got into the kiseki series recently and this is absolutely amazing.
just rolled credits on azure official port, and it was so amazing to finish an awesome game, and it was heartwarming to see it dedicated to Scott
Oh and thank you for touching on the optional event thing. As much as I like these games, sometimes the side events and conversations feel like they'd serve the main story better in terms of character development and interaction, and it sucks that so much of it is easily missed.
For me, this particular duology really hit home, I did not expect it to tackle a lot of the mature issues it does, while also gracefully telling a story that makes sense and is not to be for shock value. I related the most to Lloyd and Gang, which is crazy to me because I thought Sky was the definitive experience and while I still feel it is, these games just blew me away and are currently my favorite so far. The whole Lloyd brother thing at the end of the second game really hit me hard, especially as someone who has experienced loss in my life, and I don't know... I just needed that. I admit that I defnitely cried in that one scene I mentioned, something that hasn't ever happened with a game. And as previously stated, I knew it was gonna be good I just didn't expect it to be this impactful. Also props to Geofront! What a wonderful localization. It takes a lot of talent to be able to not only translate but localize this dialogue the way they did. Everyone felt distinct and the dialogue was S tier for me.
totally agree with you. I also loved that crossbell lost in the end. The heroes failed despite everything, which hits that much harder. I have never played a game where the heroes lose and it isn't obvious. usually the heroes overcome impossible odds like in the sky and cold steel games to win, but here? the arc ended and crossbell is no more an independent state, that made some of the chapters in cold steels 3 that much more gut wrenching to play.
The Tio scene makes me tear up and it was so well written. I completely agree with you. I love the Crossbell games so much. Currently playing through Cold Steel 2 and working my way through those games until we get Hajimari! Yes the optional events and bonding events are a major issue.
Same here, I'm into CS II atm, too. Another major issue for me is the grown amount of fanservice and anime tropes, which started with Azure. I really don't like the way characters like Millium or Alfin behave in certain scenes, same goes for Ilya or Shirley. Sky was so much better in that regard.
@@firebreather4192 I have no problem with the fanservice and anime tropes. But I still do like Sky the most, just because it had a certain charm to it that can't really be replicated in Cold Steel.
ah yes, I shed a few in that scene as well...though the ending with Guy really broke me lol
@@firebreather4192 sadly that's the one thing I feel like Falcom is dropping the ball on but good thing is it's not too excessive i guess we have to accept it lol
@@firebreather4192 but the Heram elements are really exhausting, and it's more pronounced in CS. And I'm over Rean's sister thing, same thing happened with SAO and the cousin thing ugh
I will definitely buy the official copy of these games to support the time and hard work of the translators that even made this impossible thing possible
I 100% agree. Zero and Azure is the pinnacle of the trails series with Hajimari trailing a close second. Hopefully they apply this quality in Kuro and beyond
I'm still partial to Kloe in the Sky arc, but Elie's healing powers + Holy Bullet + Strike Bell are just too OP
She's not even the best healer in Sky! (good bait?)
I can't wait to finally play them when the physical versions are released stateside. It's like I've been reading an excellent book, but chapters 4 and 5 were torn out.
These two games are a MUST PLAY if you need to understand CSI and CS2, in that regard. I'm glad NIS finally decided to port these titles in anticipation of Trails into Reverie, which wraps up the entire Erebonian arc before we visit the Calvard Republic.
That being said, the writing and direction of Zero/Azure is off the charts. I truly enjoyed these two games after being somewhat confused and lost while playing through CS3, which took me into Crossbell and I had no idea what was happening; I didn't play these games yet.
Great video, I agree with a lot of your points: small cast for one. I also definitely agree with side content fleshing out important story bits. After Trails in the Sky FC I decided I would just use guides for Trails games to see all the side content - something I've done through all the games up until CS4 (still on my backlog). I wish they would steer away from that. I'm already having trouble getting my friends to play this series, now I have to tell them to make sure to do all the sidequests to get the full story, lol.
It's been a few months now since I finished my Azure playthrough, and I still find myself pondering on it and Zero. Finally after all that time I can say that the Crossbell Arc is indeed my favorite Arc. I went into Zero after FC and SC, kept a open mind, and savored every moment in Crossbell.
I did have a rough time trying to pinpoint exactly why I loved this duology so much. Your video here helped me out greatly. I love to watch videos of Trails fans talking about Trails and their experiences. Unfortunately I've no one to talk Trails with, but to hear someone else talk about why they love these games sorts my mind out....what I'm trying to say is thank you for making a video such as this one.
I absolutely loved everything about these games…like a lot…like ALOT alot. When I got laid off last year in March, it was the first time I actually got to sit down and actually PLAY the trails series. I played through sky and wow what a rush….but omg after I finished Zero and Ao I was blown away! The character bonds and development, the more “gruesome” dive into the past of crossbell with the cult, and the music…oh my the music!
I feel like this ark in the trails series was more “real” if that makes sense. It felt more adult and more real, with political intrigue, destruction, terrorism, and the Mob.
Interesting I’m currently going through the story recap to get ready for my CS playthrough. This series has been a wonderful experience and the Crossbell Duology is one of the reasons why I think so
I agree with the video. I complete the zero and azure with geofront patch and will planning to play it again with official launch. Trails to Azure is one of the best trail game i played, on par with cold steel 4. I did find that there too many characters in Cold steel series, which make it more difficult on bonding and interacting with other characters.
I wish that Elie played a bigger role in the games, especially when she's supposedly the canon love interest. Nonetheless a great duology for sure tho.
Although if you were to look at it from a gameplay perspective...... Yeah I can't count how many times Ellie and Tio's S-Crafts saved my ass XD
True, since she is a politician at heart you would expect her to play a bigger role. i still consider her the best female in all trails, cute yet mature at the same time.
I would add one criticism, a recurring problem in the Trails franchise, and it ties into your comment about how quickly Grimwood suddenly developed regrets: How easily forgiven antagonists are. It seems like the minute someone isn't actively opposing the protagonists, all is forgiven. It's most notable in Cold Steel ("okay, so Crow's a terrorist leader, assassinated a head of state, and made it clear his time with us was all a lie, but he attended lectures with us for almost a whole three months, so he's one of the good guys and we'll forgive anything!"), or with Oroborous seemingly being a part-time gig you can enter or leave at any time, but Zero/Azure had a big problem in that you're theoretically supposed to be cops.
When it turns out Rixia is a freaking assassin for the Chinese Mafia, the SSS, a group of police detectives, collectively shrugged its shoulders and accepted her into their ranks without so much as a finger-wag. We find out that Arios was involved in the plot to murder Lloyd's freaking brother (itself a mystery that took too long to resolve), but by the next time we see Arios (CS3 and the Birdcage), Lloyd and Arios are shown working side-by-side with zero indication of animosity. At least when Col. Richard was forgiven for his coup attempt in Sky, it took three games, definite action to protect the queen, and a whole lot of self-loathing, not just an instant shrug of the shoulders and "oh well, water under the bridge."
Crossbell arc is the best to me. I did not regret of playing those games before ending Sora No kiseki games SC yet.
I didn't figure i would grow to like Wazy. What a well written series to have such range with characterization. And that scene at the end for Lloyd to choose not to rewrite history so he can preserve his experiences with his friends. Brave and bold choice.
I was literally just listening to the kiseki cast on music of crossbell and thought to myself, man crossbell gotta be the pinnacle of kiseki.... And BAM tkn uploads a video on why crossbell is bestz
I'm still working on Trails in the Sky SC and can't wait to get to these. As much as I love it part of me still wants to start Cold Steel and play them concurrently. Resist, professor!
Was saddened that I had to hold off on watching this until now due to the fact I was in the middle of my crossbell journey. Took me a bit but I finished it a couple weeks back and it lived up to all the hype the community created around it. The main takeaway for me which as you stated was the SSS team. The original 4 and that they had all of that time to develop. I couldn't help but love each one of them and enjoyed seeing how not only their pasts unraveled but also how they developed as characters through their experience in the SSS. I prefer smaller casts as well and this definitely was one of the best examples of why that can be great.
The only thing I missed personally was the in game canon and well written romance seen in Sky. I know that there's appeal to having what ifs and 'choose your waifu' type setups but I'll always prefer having the payoff of a solid straightforward romance like estelle and joshua rather than seeing them only able to take it so far due to not being able to commit.
I enjoyed every bit of my experience in crossbell and look forward to replaying it one day through official release instead. Going to hold off for a little bit as a break but next will be cold steel for me. Here's to hoping I can find something good in it since I feel like most people I see online talk about it as nothing more than a letdown.
Good video as always. You're part of why I started my journey into the kiseki side of Falcom and how I found some of my new favorite jrpgs of all time.
Edit: At this point I have 3 games in the cold steel arc under my belt and am enjoying my playthrough. Looking forward to playing that finale.
You did the right thing, all games are best played as blind as possible!
Just beat Azure last night. So good man. Just tasty content.
Amen ! I couldn't explain it better. As much as I deeply love the Sky trilogy , Crossbell remain at the top ! Azure was a jaw dropping game with incredible pacing and plot twist.
Having just finished azure, that twist at the end and what it means reflecting back, absolutely cemented zero and azure as my favourite Jrpgs ever
I'm definitely going to have to replay the Crossbell Arc again soon. Even after 140+ hours between the two, there are still parts that I would like to re-examine, particularly from Azure's side of things.
The last 20 hours of Azure was fantastic, but it would be a blatant lie to act as if Grimwood and the entire ending didn't leave me with what I would call "surprise"/"confusion" than anything else.
Crossbell Arc is my favorite of the Trails series so far. But when I get the time, I would like to take a few steps back and resoak in the experience.
I just finished Azure yesterday night. It was amazing and the last scenes before the ending made me cry so hard I almost couldn't read anymore. The games do many things right but I agree that having lots of crucial content hidden behind optional events sucks. I loved Wazy and Rixia and would have loved to see mor of their backstory in the actual story. I am about to start Cold Steel and I will enjoy it for what it is. I am especially excited to see all the events from the end of Azure that happened in Erebonia while the SSS was trying to save KeA. But I guess one thing I will have to get used to is the new Orbment system. I love my magic lego cellphone\pocket watch. But the pacing in both Zero and Azure was truly amazing. You have this slow start where you get to do stuff and meet people. And then at the end it escalates and the shit hits the fan. It was a crazy experience and I'm glad to have played it. I still miss playing as Ries and Kevin. You only get 1 game with Ries being playable! I just hope I don't hit the "played everything and have to wait" club too soon.
Finally finished Azure a few days ago. It took me over 150 hours but let's just say I enjoyed 99% of it. The last dungeon or rather its enemies were annoying as hell in my opinion. But aside from this and the sudden reconsideration of Ian at the end I'd say the storytelling within the Crossbell Arc was amazing. Also I dunno if you touched on it during the other video but Holy damn the music in those games is pure bliss.
Crossbell State... FUCK YEAH!
i feel like you explained grimwoods reasoning for giving up on his plan pretty well in your character ranking video? anyway to add to it i also felt like it was implied that one of the reasons for his wavering determination was because he felt guilty for what he did to guy. he killed him in the moment because he had been very sure up to that point, but then he slowly started to realise what he had done, which is why he gives up on what hes doing after lloyds speech sorta forgiving him for guy.
to me, the best game in the series is Cold Steel 4 followed closely by Sky SC, I just think in those games overall character arcs of the main cast are much more potent
like the growth of Estelle and Joshua in Sky SC and then the new class VII (plus Rean) in CS4 just showed much more than the SSS
to me, of the 6 SSS members only 3 show their all in both games, Tio, Randy and Lloyd. idk never cared much for Noel, but also Elie and Wazy felt like they were shunned during these games, they just weren't truly explored deeper.
Don't get me wrong, CS4 is my second favourite game in the Series. I just think Crossbell as an arc is the best the Series has to offer.
I know this is out of nowhere, bt I just HAD to say it. After finnishing Azure last year, I still think Nielsen as a suspicious guy XD. He is just pure suspicious as I have quite the trust issues of characters with lab coats, glasses, and closed eyes in this game XD.
Haven't played the Crossbell arc yet, but so far from my deductions playing the other series although I haven't finished some. Crossbell tends to be the most political region due to geography. Like I could already compare their region akin to real life country especially being stucked against two large country on each side of their borders
Will play it soon i am in love on the OST btw. i am stream it on my FB Page :D
Great video as always TKN.
I think you do a fantastic job with all your Trails content always love seeing it. Now that you’ve done a couple of revisits, have you ever considered a video comparing and contrasting what you feel Zero/Ao does and does not do better vs Cold Steel and vice versa? I know your favorite is the former and you’ve presented some of your key points, but if your schedule ever allows it would be really interesting to see a full direct comparison video showing Zero/Ao does X better than Cold Steel here’s why and Cold Steel does Y better here’s why
Just my thoughts appreciate your work!
Yo bro, thanks for the suggestion but I think if I straight up did a video comparison of them side by side it was just devolve in to a war in the comments. Not really what I want to be honest, so I'll keep the analysis of each game separate.
I played through these games about 1 year ago, Absolutely loved them. The Liberl arc was excellent but the Crossbell one took all that and raised it up.
I loved the Mad dash through the city in Zero, With Dudley and Sergei holding off the Various Manipulated forces, I just couldn't put the game down.
I did my best to 100% these games and get all that juicy hidden content because it was of such high quality.
I just wanted to add to the point that you made about Lawyer Grim.
Maybe it wasn't just a 2 minute speech from Lloyd, but also seeing about a Years worth of the SSS actually maybe making some progress towards overcoming those barriers?
Or at least Seeing the SSS had sparked some hope in him again?
IDK, I've only played through them once, I'm now onto Cold Steel 2, and working my way through that one.
The problem is that it's delivered poorly. The evidence to show his conviction was wavering is shown via hidden events (Pete's letter, Nielsens final quest). Without those, you're left with a 2 minute speech from Lloyd which should never trump a decade old plan that you've worked on meticulously.
@@TheKisekiNut Yeah true, It is for sure not telegraphed sufficiently. I was fortunate enough to witness both of those events.
I disagree somewhat with that Class VII is worst then the SSS as a team because of the reasons mentioned in the vid. I think it isn't because of numbers of characters. The whole purpose of original Class VII was to place various high potential talents of differing backgrounds and skills in one class. In a sense, not that different from the SSS. The problem is the lack of interactions between various members, but I see that as a problem of Falcom wanting to focus on one character instead of them all which I feel they had the time for.
The problem is that CS as a series had to rap up western Zemuria. In my opinion, the first 3 games should have had sole focus on class VII, old and new. And have other Librl/Crossbell characters cameo. And the 4th and perhaps 5th jam in as many characters from other arcs as they wished.
Because you can't say they didn't set up intricate stories with potential payoffs between Class VII characters and those characters interaction with other Erebonian characters. Alisa-Irene-Grandfather-Black Albrich-Sharon; Laura-Victor-Duvalie-Lianne S.; Georg-Towa-Crow-Agelica and many more.
The payoffs between characters for me were largely...ok to meh, because Falcom had to speed up CS:IV and juggle as many characters and still ran out of time.
The problem I have with all CS arcs apart from 1, is that it quickly went far beyond the direct problems facing the introduced Erebonian characters and the country as whole. Rather it had to solve the entire overarching western Zemuria plotline and even parts of the Crossbell arc. Instead of dealing with class warfare, Osborne and Crossbell, suddenly it became about giant Gundams who turned out to be part of literally a miracle which one part cursed an entire country. With Ouroboros doing their thing in between.
Something which the Librl nor original Crossbell arcs had to do, even if it did the whole 'there also something bigger' thing. Both Sky 1-2 and both Crossbell games could stay more focused than most of the CS games.
They just didn't bother to write good characters.
Which is pretty much shown in Hajimari when the new writers write an excellent Route while the old writers continue to botch preexisting characters.
Most of CS1-4 is just stalling till Chapter 4 when they finally tell us plot relevant info and then rushing to the credits with a cliffhanger.
Class 7 had an interesting premise that sadly stays contained in CS1 as all the character conflicts get resolved in very boring ways in that game.
A lot of the characters are also just there.
Gaius experiences a slight bit of racism from Patrick but they never decide to actually delve into the big picture of Nord and Erebonia.
Elliot has tiny amounts of conflict with his dad not wanting him to go to music school.
Machias and Jusis conflict is gone before you know it and Machias's Dad is so irrelevant to the whole arc it hurts.
Fie gets to learn how to be a normal human which is enough of a character arc to outshine most class 7 members.
Emma is either just there or is used as means to make the plot work but her character is incredibly bland.
Alisa has such a stacked family but boy do they not bother doing anything with her.
Laura similar to Alisa gets completely abandoned by the plot, she even gets to personally experience the worst bullshit that CS4 pulled when
CS does not bother itself with all of western Zemuria.
We know of Jurai, North Ambria and the other minor states but aside from Crossbell they have no importance to any event. Even Crossbell isn't important in CS as all the events there serve as filler/nostalgia bait besides the El Prado awakening, who could've been placed anywhere else narratively.
None of the pre CS characters receive any additional development in CS, Randy comes close but they don't even let him fight Shirley.
CS1 and CS2 also have close to no impact on CS3 and CS4.
Rean is a totally different person at the beginning of 3 than he was at the end of 2, so all his character development that he got happened off screen.
The arc just clearly had too many subpar ideas and nobody putting their feet down and saying No to most of them.
If Coldsteel had the same focus on the premise that crossbell had the arc could've been great.
While I definitely agree about the pacing being excellent in the grander scale of things, I just want to bring up a specific pacing grievance in Azure that I think was an unfortunate, easily avoidable misstep: The final chapter really should've been divided into two rather than being one extremely lengthy chunk of story.
Chapter breaks shape pacing expectations and build up hype, and that goes double for final chapters. So, when I got to the start of the chapter labelled as the finale, I was excited for the endgame... which made me feel fatigued when the amount of content before we even get back inside Crossbell City turned out much more extensive than I expected. Starting the "finale" from Lloyd being alone with little idea on where anyone else even is felt weird, too - how are they going to resolve all this in addition to confronting the conspiracy and bringing KeA back in a satisfactory way within the span of a single chapter? Turns out the answer is by making the chapter really long, but naturally the player doesn't know that, so there's the lingering unease of whether things will be rushed or not. At any rate, that point certainly didn't feel like the start of the finale of the story. While none of this certainly ruined the finale in any way, it did mess with the flow of the story by creating false pacing expectations, something that could've easily been remedied by labeling the segment outside Crossbell City getting the gang back together its own chapter and having the finale start from re-entering Crossbell. There certainly is still enough content left at that point to justify a chapter break there, and that's the point of peak excitement for the player to see things to their conclusion.
This is far from the only time the Trails series has made some strange pacing fumble at the very end. Sky SC has its lengthy Liberl tour which, while it has its merits, still somewhat breaks the flow of the story by sending tension crashing down right after something very dramatic and exciting happens. Cold Steel 1's final chapter alternates between school festival funtimes and intense plot stuff in a jarring way - setting the final dungeon right in the middle of the school festival just makes it harder to truly immerse oneself in either. Cold Steel 2's epilogue is way more extensive than at least I expected, making for an awkward moment where I thought I still had enough time in the day to finish CS2 after I finished the chapter labelled "finale" at around 23:00 but had to end the session mid-epilogue at 4:00 because the game just refused to end...
Zero and Azure are my favorite games as well I hope Nisa does a good job on localizing these and removes the Geofront's meming. These games deserve Xseed quality localizations, but they're not on falcom anymore..
So sad though
If they cut the bruh moment scene I would get mad.
I absolutely love the crossbell saga and i couldnt really put to words why is that i personally rate SC and the third above it.
just finished azure geofront , starting in march i played trails 1,2 and skipped 3rd, zero and then azure. im moving on to cold steel on my ps5 . i bought the 4 cold steel games digitally on sale over the last two years...great series better than ff to me .i rank tales of #1 and trails #2
Also, keep in mind KeA only "deactivated" herself. She still has some perks here and there from being the Septentrion of Zero, which power wise, if she did return to her original form, having control of Space, Time and Mirage seems like a deity at this point and makes the Septentrion of Steel look like a baby in comparison... and a tiny bit op inside the plot.
On a side note, if you point out Aidios, keep in mind that's a lie, she doesn't exist. Funnily enough the only way to know this is taking some Blue or Red Gnosis or being way, way high up in the ranks in the Septian Church.
In general I agree with your point about pacing, although I will say that if you're not careful with this "slow pace but building to something amazing" then you can end up letting down your audience with the payoff you actually have to offer. I felt like this happened in Cold Steel, at least if you couldn't take the supernatural stuff too seriously. I'd also argue that it seems like this kind of pitfall is likely to befall Trails in general (from my perspective at the end of CS4).
Another thing about optional content: I almost feel like Trails has started leaning into the idea that their serious fans are going to be using guides regardless. It's sort of inevitable because these games don't really have much replay value from the gameplay perspective, so fans tend to want to get the most out of their first playthrough (which makes stuff like the CS2 scene with Thomas really aggravating). They've thrown a few bones to anti-guide folks with things like icons on the map for some of the side stuff in recent games, but there's still obscure stuff all over the place with high impacts. I'm really not sure how to feel about that trend in general.
Swings and roundabouts really. I loved the payoff from CS4, though I can see why some weren't as impressed.
Given that I've recenly finished both games (currently back on Erebonia with CS3) I have two personal big cons with this duology, expecially with Azure. One is as a gameplay focused person, I go for most effective setups rather than lore in my gameplay so if the game force me to have a specific character in the party they better be useful or else to be it's going to be a chore to play. I like Randy but they nerfed his offensive options in Azure to the point that whenever I had the chance he was on the support role when I was forced to have him in the party (I had the the same problem with Josette in that one specific part of the last dungeon of Sky SC). The other is the big plot twist before the final battles of Azure: I am not a fan of that type of trope myself. I had already a guess that something was off during the final dungeon of Zero but the reveal itself in Azure didn't clicked with me at all. I felt all my effort was worthless becasue it was pretty much new game plus on a snap of the finger.
I've still enjoyed a lot the Crossbell Duology and I can see how they can help with the experience of CS3 onward (more on a side quest for CS3 as far as I see) but I can't put them as my favorite games of the series.
I'm also the weird one who likes Sky 3rd the most.
Just starting the video but I just finished From Zero To Azure a couple weeks ago and I was soooooooo moved. I've since started Cold Steel and it feels.... flat it comparison to the first five games tbh. But I'm only in chapter 4/5 of the first of four games so I'm hoping it gets better. Does it get better???
Update. I've since started TOCS2 and it most definitely gets better. The slow payoff really reminded me of the first Trails in the Sky
I gotta agree with your opinion. Crossbell has the strongest story, but I also didn't like the plot twist of Ian being the mastermind and his quick change of mind in the end. I also find it implausible that Elie didn't have the slightest clue that her early childhood friend is actually kind of evil. Nevertheless I'm looking forward to my second playthrough with the official releases.
Bell is just a badly written character.
Ian is believable but the issue comes in the way his change of heart is delivered, that being a short talk with Lloyd.
Ian doesn't really want to go through with the Azure Zero plan, he feels obligated to because he killed Guy.
However since then he adopted Pete who has become his new family, a family which he would give up if the plan went through.
do we get to kill G in the cross ball arc as he went off to attack the trade conference
now we have to wait till atleast 2023
Zero and Ao are still my favorite originally it Sky second Chapter but these games blew it outta the water.
These were also the last games I played in the series 😅😅😅😅
رائع جدا من نجاح إلي نجاج ومشاهده مستمره تحياتي لكم من مصر
I think I'm the only person who hates Crossbell (mostly because of Ao's last and endless chapter) with the same passion people love it. Don't get me wrong though, when I say I hate it, it's not actually that, it's more of a mix of a lot of feelings towards these games that culminate in massive disappointment. The first thing being that the games couldn't live up to the expectations I had on them, and I think here lies one of the big reasons people love this arc so much, many who've played these games actually didn't have much expectations, since it was a game never released in the west, the common sense (at least for me), is that it would be kind of a black sheep, just like Ys V is for the Ys series, and when people payed it and it was actually a great game, they were really surprised and had an experience way beyond what they had expected.
For me, the opposite happened, I played these games right after finishing Sky the 3rd, and I had MASSIVE expectations, since I had heard a lot about how they were great, and maybe the best in the series. What I played wasn't even close to what I was waiting for. Along with this is the fact that I was probably fatigued and needed to play something different, since I had played through Sky in less than a month, and went directly to Zero after finishing the Sky trilogy.
These are all reasons outside of the games that probably hindered my experience, but the games themselves are not free from my criticism, one of the biggest flaws these games have, in my opinion, is that they are excellent in setting high stakes and surprising you with twists and turns, only for the outcome to be boring and inconsequential, the best example of this happening is at the end of Zero, when I was expecting a kind of twist and the reveal of Ouroboros in Crossbel, and it actually ended the story in the most boring and filler way possible.
The other problem these games have are the parallels it kinda makes with the Liberl arc, or should I say the Liber Ark? The Azure Tree is of course a kind of Liber Ark 2.0, yeah they are different, but they are essentialy the same thing, and serve the exact same purpose, be it narratively, as being the last area in the game, where you fight the bad guys and save the day, as well as being part of the bad guys plans. The problem with this is not actually the parallels themselves, but the fact that the Liber Ark was waaaay more interesting than the Azure Tree, it had story, it connected to the roots (pun not intended) of Liberl as a nation, and it was just cooler overall. One is a flying city, the other is a big blue tree. When you make these kind of parallels you have to be very careful for it not the be a copy of your previous work, while still being interesting enough that it doesn't live in the shadows of it either, Crossbell *maybe* managed the former, but it did *not* manage the latter.
Finally, the last piece of disappointment that serves to me disliking these games, is Ao's ending. As I stated above, I was probably fatigued and needing to play something else, so this may have a bit to do with my hatred towards this last chapter. It's just too damn long, I swear that I had about 50h of playtime going into the last chapter, and I finished the game with 70h+, and most of this time you're doing boring and meaningless shit. Travelling all over Crossbell to find your friends is just a chore, it doesn't add anything, and it takes away from the urgency that the amazing interlude had just set up. When you're finally over with you homework, and you think it's time to go home, you enter the final dungeon, and you won't leave it for a loooong time. It's a boring place, with nothing to explore or to look at, enemies everywhere, and more bosses than all the games in the Sky trilogy combined (this might be an exageration, I think). This dungeon is another chore, and everything in it, especially the boss fights, seems to be there just because they couldn't put it anywhere else, all of those fights carried a lot of weight, since they connected to the story of each character, but being in that meaningless boss rush just demeaned them so much it carried little to no weight in the end. It didn't help that my game started crashing in this last chapter, and it loved to crash right after a difficult boss fight, when I was still watching the cutscene (happened twice in the Azure Arbitrator). One last thing now, the big twist at the ending, when KeA reveals that she changed the reality for the SSS to be alive after the events of the first game, I had already predicted it, the first game does a nice job of foreshadowing this, and when we enter the dungeon in Zero with Estelle and Joshua, I noticed something was off, so this twist, that may have surprised some people, meant nothing to me.
And this is the story of how I hate two of the most beloved games in the franchise I love the most. I intend to play them again sometime, when the official release is out there, to see if something magically changes and I can finally appreciate the "best the series has to offer".
My top 3
Trails in the sky fc
Azure
Sky 2nd chapter
I really need to finish Azure and Cold Steel 2. Didn't finish Cold Steel 2 cause the epilogue stuff was about Crossbell, so I wanted to finish the Crossbell arc. And I am literally at the final hours of Azure. I stopped when I just returned to the city after all the shit went down and it's basically the final grind before the last dungeon.
And then FF14 happened, I really liked FF14 because it had balls to kill off characters, something I wished Trails did a bit more.
I just wish Lloyd and Elie had more interesting personalities. There are many cool characters in zero/azure but the main two are surprisingly boring. And in their final bonding event they are .... in love?! Maybe I'm dense but even after 120 hours with these people I had no idea.
This is where the annoying bonding system that locks character development behind multiple playthroughs started.
That aside, these two games are still the peak of the series for me. Tio and Randy are still easily my favorite Trails characters.
@Vegesther Yeah but those don't matter.
The issue is only relevant if its ties into character arcs or story content such as Millium telling Rean she is unable to cry in a bond event in CS2 and her then actually crying at the end when they beat Loa Luciferia and realize that Class 7 will split up.
The NG+ only Black records in CS2 and their reveal of Instructor Thomas as a Dominion and CS3 then expecting everyone to have seen that scene.
CS4s Grandmaster scene which only plays if you reload a savefile which no normal human would ever think to reload on their own.
Randy's final bond event in Zero.
Gameplay shouldn't really be left out when evaluating Zero and Azure because especially Azure is where Trails kinda peaked in terms of customization and proper difficulty.
Every playable character in Azure feels great to use. With everyone having at least 1 but often more powerful abilities that excel at beating different challenges.
Combo Crafts do an amazing job at selling the feeling of teamwork between the individual members of the SSS and they are all a blast to look at, once again a benefit of a smaller cast.
Crossbell really just nails the "building a story about a premise" with every event painting a part of the big picture and being motivated by the underlying philosophy of the games.
My only complaints in terms of story and characters would be the Crois Clan and the way the DG cult got kinda thrown by the wayside as just a jobber organization despite them being probably the most vile antagonists in Trails in terms of actually committing atrocities.
Trails has a few "2 person Organizations" most notably the Gnomes in CS 2nd half. Are there any other Gnomes besides G.Nome and Alberich? We never see any nor is it explained how they run the massive Black Workshop all on their own.
Contrast that to the Red Constellation which is pretty much operated by Shirley and Sigmund but we see a lot of faceless goons as well as Gareth to kinda get a sense of hierarchy.
It gives the player the Idea that they are just seeing a part of a bigger whole, with other Red Cons Jaegers probably being busy elsewhere and waiting to be introduced later.
That leads me to the Crois clan and the DG cult, Dieter and Mariabell seem to be operating on their own,they work with Arios and Ian but those hardly are the people to do grunt work, then how did they do any of the big stuff towards the end of Azure?
Dieter wasn't even in on most of the crap so Bell had to do it all behind his back.
Bell also just seems so unbelievable in her mastery of alchemy if we assume that the Crois Clan is just her and Dieter(who isn't involved with any alchemy stuff).
Her motivations are really odd since she pretty much fulfils her family's ambitions just for fun and then doesn't so much as bat an eye when she is stopped.
It works but just isn't very interesting since as a character that would allow her to do just about anything.
Zero's DG Cult is fine as a 1 Person organization as Joachim is operating in secret and most of the things he uses were built by others and are just maintained by him, which makes sense considering the DG Cult being eradicated by the alliance of all the strong people in zemuria.
His Motivations are also simple zealotry and delusion.
Overall Grimwood was just the far more compelling antagonist in crossbell with Dieter being a close 2nd as both of them have actual motivations that tie into the premise of a country being oppressed by 2 superpowers.
I don't have an issue with Grimwood's change of heart as he didn't really want to go through with the plan, he just felt obligated to due to his killing of Guy.
He likely has the largest amount of information on both the current state of Crossbell and the potential future that the antagonists are working towards.
As such he likely already knows that what he is doing is wrong and won't lead to a better world, just a hollow one.
He also like Lloyd and the SSS has experienced something in the current timeline which he would sacrifice if everything were to revert to a "nobody ever died" timeline.
That is his adoption of Pete whom he likely views on the same level as his biological family that he lost.
The only problem with the change of heart would be the way in which its conveyed coming across as "talk no jutsu".
I leave gameplay out because it's the least important thing to me in any JRPG. A game with solid gameplay but terrible story (Tales of Vesperia) will lose me very quickly, whereas vice versa it's a completely different take.
azure still to this day is the best in the series for me
IMHO, Kuro surpass Zero as best first game in an arc for this series. The character is more...alive, and the banter between the cast is better imo. The only thing that is slightly worse than Azure is I feel they integrate the Wazzy/Rixia/Noel position too early, so the late joiner doesn't have time to be explored a lot
Because of the English announcement a few months ago, I am tempted to play the patched version again but I am holding back to play the official version... Don't do this to me. Lol
I hate the dancing optional event... that is my swimming event vs Aurelia in CS III
Great scene, awful sidequest. Could never get the timing down on when she lands.
Yeet. We just can't keep you away from this game
Lloyd is like 2x better than rean as a protagonist, that alone made the Crossbell arc of the series way more interesting than the empire arc
Beat both games, still have zero clue why you think Crossbell is peak.
Ian would have been ten times better if he didn't get talk-no-jutsued in the last moments...
idk personally i found azure underwhelming maybe it was because people hyped it up so much. i thought zero was better than azure and sky 2,cs3,sky1,cs4 and hajimari were better than zero imo
I share the same opinion as you, for me zero is my least favorite game after FC, I also was hype to play azure and the game is fantastic it's in my top 5 but there are many issues with the game and the arc that bother me
huh, I am really suprised. Ok i know the game wont be everyone's fav but I didn't think I would find anyone who like zero more than azure.(not saying you shouldn't, i am just surprised). for me there are just too many iconic moments in azure for it to be below zero.
Interesting, I was kinda the opposite. I thought Zero was a bit underwhelming, but Azure was, for the most part, fantastic. I dunno if I’d say the Crossbell arc is peak Trails for me personally. I really love the Cold Steel games, maybe it’s just cause I played them first that I hold such a fondness for them.
The biggest thing stopping me from loving Azure was that it was so dark that it made it hard to enjoy the happy moments. Even the end of the game ends telling you that you just got occupied
Agreeing with the other folks here that Crossbell is a let down, but mostly due to Azure. I love Zero because Tio and Renne’s arcs are amazing and the payoff at the end felt good, but Azure failed to add anything to character development except a tiny bit to Lloyd and Randy and of course KeA, making the SSS have the best chemistry yet the worst individuals-essentially the opposite of Class VII. This becomes so evident in Randy in CS3 where he goes from one of the best characters in the group dynamic to mostly forgettable because alone he’s not that interesting except for his connection to Shirley. I agree the pacing is much better, like Hajimari, though I feel the game is overall pretty weak. The villains are flimsy and the worst in the series. The reveals and betrayals are not shocking. The lore came off as more contrived then CS did to me with all the cult stuff. Honestly the only good thing is the pacing and world building, which is so far the best in the series.
How does Class 7 have good individual characters?
I'll go against the grain, to me Zero was an okay start but Azure was a massive disappointment. It was full of promise, but failed on delivering a satisfying exploration to any of its very interesting themes and had some absolutely disgusting choices in it regarding Elie and Randy that made me hate the writers. Not to mention that it discards the only interesting villain it had before the end for the sake of a half-baked twist that doesn't really change anything.
And they did Randy so dirty. He deserved better than to suddenly and inexplicably decide he actually likes his abusive family of psychos and cares about them after all.