I disagree with this comparison as well. A more adequate comparison would be Ranger vs Buccaneer. As for Archer, Archer vs Fusiler. The Ranger could be a versatile healer and attacker, then once you get the guns, he can become a ranged attacker, but he is limited to only one gun. Unless there is some other super gun later in POTD. Archer is the best ranged attacker from beginning to chapter 4, but once you get the Fusiler, the Archer becomes obsolete. Changing Vyce into a Buccaneer is a good idea, and the reason why I believe Buccaneer is better than Ranger. The two support skills that allow you to totally negate magic and physical damage are just golden.
@@kmking2000 i'd say ranger vs. fusilier vs. beast tamer is the better comparison for lobber units then archer vs. ninja for ranged debuffers as these are the roles these classes excel in. i'd probably compare buccaneer instead to a hoplite for "stealth" frontline units. i wouldn't say the archer becomes obsolete in chapter 4 for 2 reasons: 1. there's alot of charm objectives that require archer. 2. archers are still situationally useful for one thing: assuring stuns/silence on bosses. still i wouldn't bring more than one archer though. they are more like a flex unit like a dragoon.
I used Vyce as a combat medic. He lobs mending potions around the map while is also able to defend and attack reasonably well. His finest hour was saving Azelstan during that first Port Omish fight. I must admit that I'm tempted to switch him to Bucco or Fusilier though.
Yeah my beast tamer pretty much does the same thing and offers more utility i feel than ranger but anyone with lobber can do that lobber is just so gooooood
beast tamers or fusilier have better skills for a lobber unit but are slower than the ranger. personally i prefer beast tamer canopus or fusilier over ranger.
In Chaos, you don’t get Vice. However, if you get Azelstan, you’ll find that you get 1 Ranger classmark at the same time. You can change Azelstan into a Ranger if you want, but he’s the only character able to do this.
So the past few nights I was making it through the graveyard areas. Last one before I left was the one with the pits on the way out. For some reason I looked away and didn’t see Olivya get knocked off. Didn’t think anything of it. Left and saved on the wrong file. Looked and saw she was permanently dead and gone…. Save right before me going to the graveyard was the next newest. @FaizedFox Gaming Currently going back through 10 hours of gameplay because I use the hell out of the sisters. My ocd kept me from pushing forward for the world tarot. 🤷♂️
Agreed with everything You said. He is like FFT's pure Squire Ramza. Good in almost everything but lack something. At least in FFT, we can add secondary traits (monk, ninja, etc) to any unit. But here in TOR there's no way to do that. To me, ranger is like a wingless magicless Vartan. I find 2x attack underwhelming for both Ninja/Ranger. Two weapons mean every attack will cost the total RT of the two. I find that the best way to maximize his ranger class, thematically, is to make ranger plays like Legolas with daggers and bows/crossbows. He has high dexterity, good RT, and VIT to exploit. Good video. Thanks for keeping this up. I think it's okay about last video. I don't find it bad or anything. Have a great day ahead, and see You in Your next videos.
agreed on double attack. double attack is inefficient/bad unless you find a way to expound the dmg (mighty impact, mighty strike, berserk) or offset the steep RT (speedstar, conserve mp + BOS). there's only 1-2 units in the game who can do this so in general, i'd advise against using double attack and just use finishers. to me a ranger is faster beast tamer/fusilier without the better skillset (empowers, quickdraw, engulf). all 3 classes have the same function: lobber unit. that's the best skill of all 3 classes and needed often in optimal parties.
Ranger has far better stats than an archer tho. I use it as a frontline fighter with his double attack, and also as an opportunistic grenade thrower. The "Back attack" skill isn't supposed to increase damage, it just makes your melee/ranged attacks much less likely to be parried/evaded.
well main reason ranger has better stats is it a unique class and archer is generic. all unit classes out stat any generic sadly. well back on psp version back attack dealt damage as if u were attack from behind which in turn deals more damage than a frontal attack
Good video, I think I agree, even with the best bow set in the game I find that it is easier to balance a beast tamer in my party easier than giving up the double hit with the archer. There should be a breach weapon in late game, but there is not. The archer wins for me as well, just being able to have my mage charge it up (the gloves and helmet ,other than the holy crown) don't do much other than slow mages down, with double shot and the range the archer gets, mine can usually take out a back line unit on turn 1, where ranger even though it can breach on turn one it can not then attack. It would be better if the ranger had haste, but then it would just be a better buccaneer.
I think the archer is better overall but ranger is "more essential" due to lobber. Lobber is a critical skill for every party to have and the ranger is one of the best at it. Its needed to handle the difficult battles in the game. Archers are also used to debuff bosses with stun/silence but they can also kill squishies fast. So they are more versatile. Thing is archers arent essential for any party. Lobber units are. Though if you use canopus beast tamer then ranger isnt needed. Rangers are the faster lobbers. Canopus is the lobber who can get places faster. Though i heard there are flight boots later in the game so the edge goes back to the ranger. So while the archer is the overall better unit, ranger is my pick for the win due to lobber. It is an S-tier skill. With that said, i'd probably just change vyce to another class (like a buccaneer) and use canopus beast tamer as my lobber unit.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 if you use beasts or dragons then for sure. I was presuming in my assessment there are no beasts/dragons in the party. If its that, then we're down to stats and RT where the ranger is ahead of the beast tamer. The beast tamer only has an edge over the ranger if on a winged unit like canopus. Fusilier i consider to be better than both once you get winged boots assuming no beasts/dragons. If there are beasts/dragons then the edge goes back to beast tamer.
Ranger Vyce imo most important thing is Lobber, he is a good item support. Ranger works best with Fusils, I don't think he's any good with 2x swords. Give him the 180ATK Longgun from San Bronsa and upgrade it to 36 piercing, he hits like a TRUCK with it. His 2x swords build is half baked he doesn't have any good skills to back it up like Ozma
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 agreed Ranger Vyce is not spectacular. I think he's supposed to change into a Buccaneer as his upgraded option. but i messed that quest up I haven't tried it yet
@@soandsononame8750 you're not missing much. buccaneer is essentially a hoplite. another stealth frontline unit. speedstar has very low proc rate until you have 2-3 skill cards. i find buccaneer's meh. i just use it for levelling up due to good stat growth.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 with the bows the engulf ability is not so useful, they already shoot far and eagle eye only means that they cannot block it, so if you shoot at someone who cannot block it is not useful and double shot if it does a little more damage but I prefer the Goal attempts
@@loko-pr3ys eagle eye isn't just that. it assures conditions from weapons like stun/silence which works on most bosses unlike other conditions or finishers like charm and sleep. tremendous shot gives you an mp cost option to do this as well in case eagle eye doesn't proc. engulf isn't as useful for a crossbow user but absolutely useful on a bow user to shoot behind enemy lines and debuff critical units like mages or bosses. double shot is actually alot of dmg if you can save mp and do double shot + tremendous shot and target only squishies or anyone debuffed by TKs.
ranger is really designed in an awkward way... it is a frontline melee without survival skill.. ninja would be slightly better, or buccaneer is way better. I would say archer is more useful, you can either go debuff with bow or hit hard on light armour with crossbow. Ranger is pretty much go melee and get knocked-out.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 It is pretty odd to design a special class in this way, it is more like a generic class, nothing special at all. well at least Vyce got buccaneer, so that is easily kicking ranger class out of the way,....
The Ranger is an odd fusion between Warrior and Archer with a grain of Fusilier. So sad in the PSP version this class was an absolutely nightmare for every enemy unit due to his deadly skills…but why the nerf this time?
Ranger is the stronger class because items are op in this game. But design wise, the Archer is better in my opinion, with more diverse skills and options. If items were not broken, the ranger would be much weaker, but outside of lord it is the best lobber in the game. But the ranger is one of the most underwhelming classes in the game, back attack and first aid are just bad. This just goes to show that raw strength is not everything in TO Reborn.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 it is just preference because I played much of the game for now I just did not want to bother leveling a beast tamer as knight or bodysnatch a winged with a knight to have a lobber with higher hp to be together with beasts, but the ranger is there and he has nothing better to do outside of lobber and double attack so I just used Vyce out of laziness, lol.
agree that ranger is the best lobber outside of lord once you get flight. otherwise canopus beast tamer is the best pre-POTD. Beast tamer denam is also useful in some battles as he's scripted at times to be nearer to the boss.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 they have one major difference. Priests can use spiritsurge and judgement. They have offense. Thus are again better than the cleric.
i'd say ninja is comparable to archer as they serve the same function: debuff bosses. ranger is more similar to fusilier and beast tamer as they also serve the same function: lobber. agreed though that fusilier is the best among the 3 unless you're bringing beasts/dragons then i'd go with the beast tamer.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 i suppose it's based on the thought behind the ranger. If you think of it as the bow archetype that a lot of fantasy goes with then yeah. If you think of it as the older woodsman archetype maybe less so. I don't think vyce's ranger really fits any of the more common archetypes
while i agree both are underwhelming, i'd say they fit vastly different roles in the party. a ranger is a lobber. that's their best skill. their purpose is to debuff/heal. berserkers are strikers. their job is to deal dmg.
What do you guys think ranger versus archer is a pretty fair comparison
I disagree with this comparison as well. A more adequate comparison would be Ranger vs Buccaneer. As for Archer, Archer vs Fusiler.
The Ranger could be a versatile healer and attacker, then once you get the guns, he can become a ranged attacker, but he is limited to only one gun. Unless there is some other super gun later in POTD. Archer is the best ranged attacker from beginning to chapter 4, but once you get the Fusiler, the Archer becomes obsolete.
Changing Vyce into a Buccaneer is a good idea, and the reason why I believe Buccaneer is better than Ranger. The two support skills that allow you to totally negate magic and physical damage are just golden.
@@kmking2000 i'd say ranger vs. fusilier vs. beast tamer is the better comparison for lobber units then archer vs. ninja for ranged debuffers as these are the roles these classes excel in. i'd probably compare buccaneer instead to a hoplite for "stealth" frontline units.
i wouldn't say the archer becomes obsolete in chapter 4 for 2 reasons:
1. there's alot of charm objectives that require archer.
2. archers are still situationally useful for one thing: assuring stuns/silence on bosses.
still i wouldn't bring more than one archer though. they are more like a flex unit like a dragoon.
I used Vyce as a combat medic. He lobs mending potions around the map while is also able to defend and attack reasonably well. His finest hour was saving Azelstan during that first Port Omish fight. I must admit that I'm tempted to switch him to Bucco or Fusilier though.
Yeah I think ranger is the best potion carrier
Yeah my beast tamer pretty much does the same thing and offers more utility i feel than ranger but anyone with lobber can do that lobber is just so gooooood
beast tamers or fusilier have better skills for a lobber unit but are slower than the ranger. personally i prefer beast tamer canopus or fusilier over ranger.
The birds 🐦 agree. Ranger class is underwhelming.
that they do lol
This is a much better vs video, they were both nerfed so it's a lot more interesting
yeah and i feel ranger is really really nerfed in this version compared to psp
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 yeah absolutely
Thank you so much for doing these guides. Love it 👏
Thank you for taking the time to watch them :)
Absolutely. This game is so amazing!!! The only thing I'm excited for next is Sons of the Forest. No point though as I don't have a PC 😫
In Chaos, you don’t get Vice. However, if you get Azelstan, you’ll find that you get 1 Ranger classmark at the same time. You can change Azelstan into a Ranger if you want, but he’s the only character able to do this.
oh no making Azelstan a ranger is like the worst idea hes so good with buccaneer
Its like Ozma and Deneb, yes you can make Ozma a White Knight and Deneb a Shaman, but what a waste.
@@IzunaSlap very true
So the past few nights I was making it through the graveyard areas. Last one before I left was the one with the pits on the way out. For some reason I looked away and didn’t see Olivya get knocked off. Didn’t think anything of it. Left and saved on the wrong file. Looked and saw she was permanently dead and gone…. Save right before me going to the graveyard was the next newest. @FaizedFox Gaming Currently going back through 10 hours of gameplay because I use the hell out of the sisters. My ocd kept me from pushing forward for the world tarot. 🤷♂️
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 Yes indeed, change Vyce into a Buccaneer instead!
Agreed with everything You said. He is like FFT's pure Squire Ramza. Good in almost everything but lack something. At least in FFT, we can add secondary traits (monk, ninja, etc) to any unit. But here in TOR there's no way to do that. To me, ranger is like a wingless magicless Vartan.
I find 2x attack underwhelming for both Ninja/Ranger. Two weapons mean every attack will cost the total RT of the two. I find that the best way to maximize his ranger class, thematically, is to make ranger plays like Legolas with daggers and bows/crossbows. He has high dexterity, good RT, and VIT to exploit.
Good video. Thanks for keeping this up. I think it's okay about last video. I don't find it bad or anything. Have a great day ahead, and see You in Your next videos.
yeah thats good compared to ramza in fft i like it
agreed on double attack. double attack is inefficient/bad unless you find a way to expound the dmg (mighty impact, mighty strike, berserk) or offset the steep RT (speedstar, conserve mp + BOS). there's only 1-2 units in the game who can do this so in general, i'd advise against using double attack and just use finishers.
to me a ranger is faster beast tamer/fusilier without the better skillset (empowers, quickdraw, engulf). all 3 classes have the same function: lobber unit. that's the best skill of all 3 classes and needed often in optimal parties.
Ranger has far better stats than an archer tho.
I use it as a frontline fighter with his double attack, and also as an opportunistic grenade thrower.
The "Back attack" skill isn't supposed to increase damage, it just makes your melee/ranged attacks much less likely to be parried/evaded.
well main reason ranger has better stats is it a unique class and archer is generic. all unit classes out stat any generic sadly. well back on psp version back attack dealt damage as if u were attack from behind which in turn deals more damage than a frontal attack
Good video, I think I agree, even with the best bow set in the game I find that it is easier to balance a beast tamer in my party easier than giving up the double hit with the archer. There should be a breach weapon in late game, but there is not. The archer wins for me as well, just being able to have my mage charge it up (the gloves and helmet ,other than the holy crown) don't do much other than slow mages down, with double shot and the range the archer gets, mine can usually take out a back line unit on turn 1, where ranger even though it can breach on turn one it can not then attack. It would be better if the ranger had haste, but then it would just be a better buccaneer.
Yeah i agree with what your saying too i wish there was a breach weapon for late game too
I like the ranger much more. I’ve used Vyce from day 1. I find the archer needs height to be useful.
ranger is pretty nice with lobber
I think the archer is better overall but ranger is "more essential" due to lobber. Lobber is a critical skill for every party to have and the ranger is one of the best at it. Its needed to handle the difficult battles in the game.
Archers are also used to debuff bosses with stun/silence but they can also kill squishies fast. So they are more versatile.
Thing is archers arent essential for any party. Lobber units are. Though if you use canopus beast tamer then ranger isnt needed. Rangers are the faster lobbers. Canopus is the lobber who can get places faster. Though i heard there are flight boots later in the game so the edge goes back to the ranger.
So while the archer is the overall better unit, ranger is my pick for the win due to lobber. It is an S-tier skill.
With that said, i'd probably just change vyce to another class (like a buccaneer) and use canopus beast tamer as my lobber unit.
i think beast master with lobber is just better than ranger personally
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 if you use beasts or dragons then for sure. I was presuming in my assessment there are no beasts/dragons in the party. If its that, then we're down to stats and RT where the ranger is ahead of the beast tamer. The beast tamer only has an edge over the ranger if on a winged unit like canopus.
Fusilier i consider to be better than both once you get winged boots assuming no beasts/dragons. If there are beasts/dragons then the edge goes back to beast tamer.
Ranger Vyce imo most important thing is Lobber, he is a good item support. Ranger works best with Fusils, I don't think he's any good with 2x swords. Give him the 180ATK Longgun from San Bronsa and upgrade it to 36 piercing, he hits like a TRUCK with it. His 2x swords build is half baked he doesn't have any good skills to back it up like Ozma
yeah i find beast master better with lobber and more useful than ranger and it just sucks hes not good till he gets like a really late game gun
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 agreed Ranger Vyce is not spectacular. I think he's supposed to change into a Buccaneer as his upgraded option. but i messed that quest up I haven't tried it yet
@@soandsononame8750 you're not missing much. buccaneer is essentially a hoplite. another stealth frontline unit. speedstar has very low proc rate until you have 2-3 skill cards. i find buccaneer's meh. i just use it for levelling up due to good stat growth.
I use the ranger with a bow and I don't change it for anything for the archer, it does damage and support with the lobber ability
just dont bad it dont have access to any good bow skills like archer has
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 with the bows the engulf ability is not so useful, they already shoot far and eagle eye only means that they cannot block it, so if you shoot at someone who cannot block it is not useful and double shot if it does a little more damage but I prefer the Goal attempts
@@loko-pr3ys eagle eye isn't just that. it assures conditions from weapons like stun/silence which works on most bosses unlike other conditions or finishers like charm and sleep. tremendous shot gives you an mp cost option to do this as well in case eagle eye doesn't proc. engulf isn't as useful for a crossbow user but absolutely useful on a bow user to shoot behind enemy lines and debuff critical units like mages or bosses.
double shot is actually alot of dmg if you can save mp and do double shot + tremendous shot and target only squishies or anyone debuffed by TKs.
ranger is really designed in an awkward way... it is a frontline melee without survival skill.. ninja would be slightly better, or buccaneer is way better. I would say archer is more useful, you can either go debuff with bow or hit hard on light armour with crossbow. Ranger is pretty much go melee and get knocked-out.
yeah it was such a good unit in psp and they nerfed it for this version almost to being useless
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 It is pretty odd to design a special class in this way, it is more like a generic class, nothing special at all. well at least Vyce got buccaneer, so that is easily kicking ranger class out of the way,....
The Ranger is an odd fusion between Warrior and Archer with a grain of Fusilier. So sad in the PSP version this class was an absolutely nightmare for every enemy unit due to his deadly skills…but why the nerf this time?
yeah this class has been gutted compared to psp version :(
Ranger is the stronger class because items are op in this game.
But design wise, the Archer is better in my opinion, with more diverse skills and options.
If items were not broken, the ranger would be much weaker, but outside of lord it is the best lobber in the game.
But the ranger is one of the most underwhelming classes in the game, back attack and first aid are just bad.
This just goes to show that raw strength is not everything in TO Reborn.
true items are op which is why i prefer my beast master item boy :)
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 it is just preference because I played much of the game for now I just did not want to bother leveling a beast tamer as knight or bodysnatch a winged with a knight to have a lobber with higher hp to be together with beasts, but the ranger is there and he has nothing better to do outside of lobber and double attack so I just used Vyce out of laziness, lol.
@@geovannipurcino i get it make sense to me i try to keep all units i have max level
agree that ranger is the best lobber outside of lord once you get flight. otherwise canopus beast tamer is the best pre-POTD. Beast tamer denam is also useful in some battles as he's scripted at times to be nearer to the boss.
I updated my comments yesterday, you can compare priest (catiua) vs cleric. Only she can be changed to priest.
im pretty sure priest has the exact same skill set as cleric i will have to check
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 They are almost the same with the priest much better but that class will be the closest in term for comparison.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 You need Abuna mark from Phorampa if You want to test them. Have fun with them lol.
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 they have one major difference. Priests can use spiritsurge and judgement. They have offense. Thus are again better than the cleric.
I think Fusil is better comparison to archer than ranger. Maybe ninja is better comparison to ranger in my opinion.
ninja is nothing like ranger ninjutsu better skill options they destroy ranger
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 I also feel ninja is better but as for comparison, I think those 2 classes are more similar.
i'd say ninja is comparable to archer as they serve the same function: debuff bosses. ranger is more similar to fusilier and beast tamer as they also serve the same function: lobber. agreed though that fusilier is the best among the 3 unless you're bringing beasts/dragons then i'd go with the beast tamer.
@TheRobversion1 that's depend on each on view as I don't use them this way.
I'd actually compare ranger to berserker of all things since they occupy a similar role and I personally find both underwhelming most of the time.
let be honest in reality a ranger and archer should be similar u know :)
@@faizedfoxgaming7426 i suppose it's based on the thought behind the ranger. If you think of it as the bow archetype that a lot of fantasy goes with then yeah. If you think of it as the older woodsman archetype maybe less so. I don't think vyce's ranger really fits any of the more common archetypes
while i agree both are underwhelming, i'd say they fit vastly different roles in the party. a ranger is a lobber. that's their best skill. their purpose is to debuff/heal. berserkers are strikers. their job is to deal dmg.