Super Mario Wonder, The Mario Movie and Why One Is Worse Because Of The Other.
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Super Mario Wonder launched in a really interesting context.
On the one hand 2D Super Mario has gotten stale.
Yet while 2D Mario has fallen from grace over the past couple of years, the Super Mario franchise itself certainly has not.
On the contrary. The Mario franchise is currently as popular as it arguably hasn’t been in three decades.
Thanks to the huge success of the Super Mario Movie and the homerun that the Switch ended up being, Mario is currently living through a massive popularity surge. So at the height of Mario’s popularity, Nintendo released a game in the 2D Super Mario platformer genre - a genre that has lost popularity in the past decade.
Super Mario Wonder.
And Super Mario Wonder is pretty good.
In this video, we are going to take a look at why I believe this.
We are going to have a chat about the level design of Super Mario Wonder and how Nintendo evolved the 2D Mario formula, we will discuss the Mario movie and why I ultimately am not too happy about it, even though I thought it was fun, we will discuss what the opera Carmen has to do with all of this and in the end you will hopefully understand, why I think that Super Mario Wonder is an excellent game that left me disappointed.
====== Links
Link to the Patreon write-up:
/ open-post-isis-92742999
====== Timestamps
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:01 - Shaking Up The Stale (Evolution of 2D Mario)
00:13:04 - Systemic Difficulty (Difficulty Discussion)
00:27:34 - The Mario Movie (Movie Review)
00:45:16 - The Luigification of Mario (State of the Mario Franchise)
====== Credits for the Music
Super Mario Wonder OST - “Piranha Plants on Parade”, “Title Screen”
Super Mario Bros OST - “Overworld Theme”
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST - “Gerudo Valley”
Dark Souls OST - “Firelink Shrine”
Tropical Freeze OST - “Grassland Groove”
== Kevin MacLeod
“The Builder”, “Adventure Meme”
Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Additionally, the video uses licensed tracks from productioncrate.com and motionarray.com - Hry
Hey everyone!
I noticed that there is a bit of a controversy going on because of the AI art (its stable diffusion) that I used during the Mario movie part.
I thought it might be best to address this.
My general idea when using the AI art during the Mario movie part was to mirror the Mario movie with it.
You know, the Mario movie is a bit of a soulless calculating product that uses art as a means to fulfill financial ends, instead of displaying art for the value of art itself.
I liked the idea of making this point while using AI art because, you know, AI art is kind of soulless, artificially created art that is used to make it easier to “create” art as a product.
There is always a financial aspect to art.
This financial aspect is why the Mario movie is the way it is.
And AI-generated art is kind of the ultimate perversion of the financial aspect of art.
It’s also why there are missing eyeballs and hands that look like claws in the pics used in the video.
I wanted those pictures to be obviously artificial because at least in my mind there is a bit of a parallel between the artificiality of the Mario movie and the artificiality of AI art.
So that was my line of thought when I put the AI art into the video, but looking back at it from a distance and after reading a bit of feedback, I think I may not have handled that especially gracefully.
There are huge unsolved copyright concerns when it comes to AI art, as AI is arguably trained with the stolen work of every artist who ever lived.
When it is ethical to use AI-generated content is still an open debate that will only become fiercer the more mainstream AI tools become.
Looking back at it, I probably should have either addressed the parallel I was thinking of directly in the video, or not use AI art at all.
You know, if I want to draw a parallel I probably should actually draw it.
So I understand why some people aren’t too happy about the AI art in the video and I’ll be more careful with this going forward. Though I honestly never intended to use much AI art going forward - not only due to ethical concerns but also because I like my humans to have five fingers.
thank you for addressing this, please never again
Its ait, no problem
Womp womp
-Wow, Ceave is biased against non 5-fingered people. (Though, technically, most humans are because we tend to be afraid/feel uncomfortable around the abnormal.)-
But, genuine comment coming: there are definitely genuine uses for AI generated images. My favourite example of this is Corridor Crew's AI-powered animation. I am honestly completely fine with that purely because it took more effort than just "put in text, get animation out" they actually had to act themselves, do the backgrounds, fix the animations, get the costumes right, construct the AI itself, all that jazz. That is art, because they actually had to put effort into it; they used AI as a tool, not as the creator.
Though, AIs do not create, they mix up what data they have been given in order to appear to be creating. Unlike humans who can make up our own data without having ever been taught it. Such as, if we do not have a word for something the concept still exists in our brain. Like, before we had "schadenfreude" in English we could still identify the concept (see: Tom And Jerry). AIs have to be given every piece of data to be able to blend something together. This second section turned into a short footnote into why AIs will never become sentient…cool.
In short: A"I" generation can be used for art but is not art on its own. Is the natural landscape art until someone paints it or does something to it? According to the OED*, no, because it has no human element.
*Definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary used:
"A human skill as an agent, human workmanship. Opposed to _nature_ "
"The application of skill to subjects of taste, as poetry, music, dancing, the drama, oratory, literary composition, and the like."
"The application of skill to the arts of imitation and design, painting, engraving, sculpture, architecture; the cultivation of these in its principles, practice, anad results; the skilful production of the beasitufl in visilbe forms."
Seems like people could use a bit of perspective. Nothing wrong with using AI-generated art. Keep up the good work Ceave.
I’m really surprised you didn’t at least mention the interview that stated the Wonder devs didn’t have a deadline, considering it seemingly goes against the theory that the game was rushed out.
Yeah ! I certainly felt like ceave about how the rushed final stages and bossfights might've been the result of a strict deadline, but having heard about the interview made me discard that idea. I wondered if ceave had another idea as to what might've happened, but having watched the video the deadline theory seems plausible again. Wonder what the deal is with that interview... Did Nintendo lie about the game's deadline or something ? If so that's really scummy...
They had no deadline for a prototype. Not a full game. I guarantee that once the movie was released they were pressuring the devs of wonder to get it out by before holiday 2023. They baked the cake but didn't let it bake fully.
@@silverercoinTbh i think the "cake" is perfectly baked as it is, personally
@@dudder6633 This entire video you just watched sir, literally explains the opposite of what you said.
@@MarioFanOnCZcams This entire video just explains Ceave's take on Mario Wonder, and i absolutely agree with some things, and don't with others. It does not explain objective facts, it's a video about a person's opinion, and, as i stated in my comment, personally i think the game is perfectly baked as it is. I don't see your point.
Star Coins persisting through death would honestly be a really a nice change if they worked like the coins in Rayman or the berries in Celeste, where they are collected only once you move to safe ground away from the collectible.
That way, the tedium of having to repeat a challenge you already completed is eliminated, while not making the challenge easier to complete.
Mario is so goddamn easy that I feel like the problem would still persist
Oh I'm fully on board with this solution. I had similar feelings about how Mario keeps the flower coins in this game, but this solution is so much better than having to get all the way to a check point or flagpole.
I feel like another way to fix the problem is to just lock the instant collect behind an early game badge.
I can't believe I'm defending the "You just got Luigi'd" line, but it's one of the rare instances where I felt the movie got something extremely right from a characterization perspective. Yeah, Luigi gets scared, but he's also surprisingly egotistical and short sighted. There's a reason he's always dancing around and congratulating himself in the Luigi's Mansion games. I thought Luigi was woefully underutilized in the movie and didn't amount to much of a character by the end, but this was pretty in character.
Characterization was good but the scene could've been paced better
@@jceggbert5movie in general*
@heckssoda588 It did basically get by with "I hope people know all these references because this is not the kind of movie where anything will be explained" With extra fast pacing from scene to scene.
It worked for sure but if people took the movie seriously or it wasn't based on a decade old franchise it would have been a box office flop.
Luigi was only "in character" because of what we have come to expect from many years of games. And Peach was Daisy
@@GoremizeLuigi only was in character for the final part of the film. In the rest of it it feels like only half of his personality exists wich is honestly very disappointing for a Luigi fan like me
@@biondigiacomo7176Luigi movie next?
'This video is going to spoil the whole of Super Mario Wonder, of the Super Mario movie, and of the opera Carmen' - this. This is the sort of mad combinations which make me love this channel
The Mario movie has the exact same message of the Angry Birds movie of all things - if everyone hates you, all you have to do is save the world, and suddenly everyone will love you
EDIT: I'm not saying it's a bad thing to put this message in a movie, but when it's the *only* message in the movie, then it comes across as very shallow. Other movies that had this trope, like The Lego Movie and Kung Fu Panda, didn't rely on it as the only core theme.
lmfao
Isn't that the plot of every movie?
thats just a consequence of saving the world, not the actual message 😭
A surprising amount of movies say that.
@@ego-lay_atman-bay I don't watch a lot of movies, but I Imagine that there are a lot of movies with better stories out there
33:55 Fun fact, the official soundtrack has songs that were supposed to be in the movie instead of the licensed songs. There are even CZcams videos of these and other scenes with the soundtrack restored.
Bro where
Including the biggest crime of all: a fucking BEAUTIFUL rendition of the DK Country theme for the karting section that ended up having... *sigh* Take On Me
The forced in licensed songs is the worst thing about the movie. the songs they replaced were so much better.
Chris Pratt being added to the movie was just one sign of the insanity that went on with its production. Someone probably felt they had to "play it more safe" from there too
@@mustacheman529 I'd argue seth rogen, but yes.
55:16
"If this is what it took to release a TTYD remake then I am all for it"
Truer words have never been spoken.
But it's likely not what it took to release a TTYD remake. The Mario Movie was released this year. It was only known of its way stronger than expected success later this year. You won't develop a remake in a single year. Super Mario RPG was already coming, Super Mario Wonder was already coming, and Paper Mario remake was already coming. Even the princess peach game was coming. All of this was coming. If anything what should worry or excite us about the effects of the success of the movie on the Mario franchise it is what's coming in 2025 or later. Nintendo is a big company and big companies take years to react to the unexpected.
@TheLeviathan1293 Yeah I know, Cave was talking not about the movie specifically, it is the endless cycle of marketing, release games in sequence to surf in the hype of the previous game or marketing product.
But I don't actually think that is what caused the remake I think this is more incidental than consequencial. I personally have another theory for it:
Nintendo ultimally have been doing remakes to test developer teams to see if they could handle the franchise so they can absorb their essence so they can continue them. Like how they remake wind waker and then the same dev team made BOTW, or how Metroid Dread dev team worked in a remake of metroid.
I do believe Nintendo is doing the same to SMRPG and TTYD. AND TTYD's Remake team is the same that made ORIGAMI, so this super talented dev team is not only remaking TTYD but also studying and making reverse engineering of it. After that this same team is going to make the NEXT PAPER MARIO GAME. I personally think this is very promising.
@@oldpernilong0Intelligent Systems has been making Paper Mario games ever since the N64
@thechargedcreeper3967 I am saying it is the same team, not same branch of Nintendo.
Needing a spoiler-check for Carmen in a Mario Wonder video essay is peak Ceave.
So happy to have ya back, dude. And I'm sorry about Wonder's lack of Fuzzies.
I find it brilliant how you keep changing that "Don't worry, that's not the final boss in the background..." joke. This time it was so good it had me almost choke on my snacks.
21:50 Hmmm, power-up storage has been in Super Mario World, NSMB, NSMB2, 3D Land/World...
_has_ been a lot of Mario Maker playing in the meantime though, as well as two home console 2D platformers (plus re-release)
I thout about that
Yes many of the 2D games do have item reserve, notably NSMB and NSMB2. While NSMBW and NSMBU don't have these systems, they instead give you an "item bank" where you can use a power up before entering the level like Mario 3.
With item storage you have one power that can be used any point in the level, item bank lets you have multiple items only used before the entering. Both make the game easier in different ways.
In super mario world there are a lot of ways you could miss a power up since they didn't go just one tile above you
The 3D world port has the same flower coin / green star collection counting after death mechanic
@@semario2606NSMBDS and 2 have an item reserve though. It’s Wii and U that give you the item bank
I don’t know, I don’t think that the Mario Movie was trying to say that you need to believe in yourself and therefore achieve your dreams. I think it says something more like “If you believe in yourself, you can find success in life, often through trial, error, and a lot of failures.” The scene where we see Mario go through the obstacle course and fail time after time after time, does not show Mario necessarily achieving his dreams, but rather overcoming the challenges life has presented him. Just because you believe in yourself, doesn’t mean that you will simply be able to achieve your dreams. There are so many other factors that can make or break your path to success that we don’t have any control over. All you can count on is what YOU have control over. Throwing yourself at a plumbing crisis that spans a whole city is not something you can just throw yourself in the deep-end of with little prior experience and expect to fix. However, the obstacle course is just that and was something that finally gave Mario the chance to do what we have done as him to reach the goals that we want to achieve in game. Of course there isn’t a great way for this to be conveyed through the brothers’ father, as he never saw the struggle that Mario had to go through to achieve the proficiency in platforming that we saw at the end of the film, but I argue that that is the real message to be taken away from that film.
Exactly! I see what you mean.
I thought this too. The movie is also quite in your face about it, with the whole "I didn't think not giving up was my biggest quality" (when Mario and Peach are talking after Mario beats Donkey Kong).
I didn't realize when I watched it that the father doesn't actually see Mario grow (I was more occupied enjoying Mario and Luigi destroying Bowser's army) but saying that because of this the message changes to "Mario's dad only likes him when he's successful" is disregarding the previous 50 minutes, which I don't think is fair to do because of a little plot hole
That's just not very deep, though, and the movie was otherwise uninteresting
I will say that whilst I mostly agree with the video, the "5 wonder tokens" wonder effect isn't really the wonder effect, it's what's happening during it that matters, which is different between almost all of them (such as the giant raindrops, the invisible glowing paths, the lava swimming...). To me, it's like complaining that every wonder effect is the same "collect the wonder seed" wonder effect. Just because they share a similar trigger does not mean that they function the same at all.
I disagree with the thesis of the video.
I have 2 points.
*POINT 1: Wonder was not Rushed*
Things don't really add up to me. If they really wanted to rush out the game because of the movie, why didn't they rush it out to release in the Spring instead? They knew the movie would do amazingly. Not as amazingly as it _did,_ but they definitely knew it was gonna be a hit.
They were radio silent about new Mario games from June of 2022 to June of 2023. That's a whole year with nothing but Mario Kart Tour & Booster Course Pass news. It's genuinely the longest Mario game drought we've had in decades.
Announcing 4 Mario games in a single direct? That's definitely due to the movie. But 2 of those games were 2023 releases. Note that we didn't even _know_ about Mario Wonder until that direct. They would've lost nothing from postponing the announcement to September or February, and releasing it Spring 2024. People would've been satisfied with Mario RPG, Princess Peach Showtime, and Luigi's Mansion 2 HD.
Super Mario Bros. Wonder was not rushed. The dev team said that they were given as much time as they needed for the game, and it clearly shows. A lot of focus was put onto the Wonder Effects, but what about the tens of new enemies? The unique world themes? To me it just feels like they were advancing so many parts of the series, that development was dragging and they had to choose some things to spend less time on. They chose to make every level memorable instead of making big bosses. They chose to give everything loads of animations and attention to detail. And I'm guessing they reached a point where they decided they wanted to start working on the next game. A lot of Nintendo sequels start with ideas that they didn't include in the previous game.
Super Mario Bros. Wonder is now the blueprint for the future of 2D Mario. Next time they can make better bosses and challenges. Wonder didn't need to be a perfect game. They made it the best they could, and then chose to move on. I'd have to imagine if they started making more bosses, they'd start thinking "hmm, there's so many other cool ideas we're coming up with, but we can't include them!"
It's better to move onto the next game and try to make _that_ the best it can be as well.
*POINT 2: The Movie has no effect*
Like I said, Nintendo was radio silent about Mario games for an entire year. They didn't care about the movie's schedule.
Nintendo, in the leadup to a massive Mario event, didn't have any Mario games ready. They could've rushed Super Mario Bros Wonder, but they let the developers have as much time as they wanted. They could've rushed out rereleases or... _something,_ but they didn't. Mario games will not have to come out around McDonald's toys or merchandise. They will not have to release at the same time as movies. The developers of Wonder literally knew nothing about the Mario movie and it inspired them to make the game as great as possible, to please the new fans. Mario media will keep going on consistently, but the games themselves will follow normal development cycles. The games have nothing to do with the media being released anyway. And they can always rush out a smaller project if they need buffers in-between. Nintendo has even been known to just sit on finished games until they get a good window to release them. They're not gonna rush Mario games, at least not any more than they have been over the years.
--
This is all my own speculation and thoughts on the matter. I enjoyed the video and agree with some of the points, but I do think the closing message is a bit flawed in-context. It's okay to be disappointed about Wonder, but I don't see how Wonder's faults paint a negative view of the future. They paint a brighter future, where the next game improves upon those faults. They've already answered a lot of creative questions while making Wonder. So they don't have to try to answer those again. They can put more focus into other aspects of the next game.
4:54 _"in my humble onion"_ is gonna be my next favorite Ceave quote of all time
Just letting you know, that quote is probably about as old as ceave on youtube
@@xelspeth really? I've never heard him say the word onion before. Maybe he did but I missed it or forgot about it after all these years
Yeah, it's in most of ceave's stuff!
@@chamtheman551
Actually, in this channel alone he's already used the expression 7 times :
- The Outer Wilds video (czcams.com/video/689GvaHKD54/video.html) at 4:59
- The Majora's Mask video (czcams.com/video/iS9__Mf0NbI/video.html) at 16:40 and 35:23
- The Hollow Knight video (czcams.com/video/_eDUHT3LBrM/video.html) at 7:13 and 55:16
- The Tears of the Kingdom video (czcams.com/video/a4ldmt3eU2I/video.html) at 0:38 and 53:13
@@lienep7917 He said "onion" on the his main channel far before the RE4 video. Though to be fair, the RE4 video came out before this was publicly known to be a Ceave channel.
I played the whole game in singleplayer but I tried online after finishing it and ended up playing the final-final test several times because it felt so fun to be part of a group of random players helping each other through a level. Also, Nabbit players are disproportionately kind.
The last few Special World levels are quite fun to play together. It's a very Dark Souls experience, in a weird, positive way.
@@eneekmot it’s the closest thing there is to having a community
As someone who played almost the whole game online. That one goomba special world level was so funny to play with people. One person would carry the squad and when they died almost everyone else would die and many people would have to restart 😂
The meme-ification of the script Mario Movie script is also why the Star Wars prequels were memed so much and regained popularity. Stating the obvious is something the prequel scripts suffer from, but it just works so well in a meme. Nintendo seemingly tried to achieve the same thing with their pacing-breaking, catchphrasy moments
Hello there.
The issues you brought up with the pop songs, it was the part of the movie that detracted the most for me. But... it was sadly inevitable. Out-of-place pop songs are Illumination's bread and butter and the main reason why everyone was hesitant about this movie for so long. I really, really wish they didn't include them but I'm absolutely certain whichever illumination exec is in charge INSISTED
Eh I wouldn't really say it was the main reason people were worried. When people were shitting on the movie before we saw any trailers it was usually about toilet humor and the celebrity casting
And apparently they insisted later on in the movie's development, too, since the movie's official soundtrack has music that originally would've been used in those scenes. It's a shame they never did.
@@MirrorHall_Clay was reading in another comment you can find the scenes on youtube with the original intended music tracks. One of them is even an original track created for the movie that they took out to put in the license tracks
No sleep till Brooklyn was very fitting in my opinion
The thing is though, Nintendo themselves said that Mario Wonder had no deadline. The developers could take as long to work on the game as they wanted.
So if they did rush the game out, it wouldn't really make much sense. It's not like Pokémon with strict deadlines and a one game per year order, no matter the quality.
If I had to hazard a guess to why it could have been so weirdly paced, I'd guess it could be a simple lack of interest in making boss battles, or filling out certain worlds, or adding extra depth to certain levels. Maybe some of the ideas picked to make into levels turned out to be harder to make a full sized level out of than expected, or the folks making the castle/palace levels didn't consider a boss at the end, and realised a bit late that they had to add one (or thought it was a necessary thing for that type of stage).
Or maybe Nintendo was lying about the no time limit thing. Either way, it's definitely weird to see so many areas where things possibly could have been cut in a game made under these circumstances.
I'd also like to point out that the reserve item system also existed in Super Mario World, plus Super Mario 3D Land and World, and the one in Bowser's Fury is even more generous. But your mileage may vary as to whether it made any of those games easier than they could have been.
Either way, great video!
I was only able to figure out the secret exits for World 3 and 5 because I noticed those "levels" didn't have the green checkmark behind them to show that you've found everything. And even then it seemed weird going back in. I never would have thought to do that, but at least the game gives you a small hint
same, i was surprised i found it on my own
20:17 Regarding the Star Coins saving when you get them, even if you die. The Celeste dev talks about how he made Strawberries save, so it serves as a mini goal that you don't have to repeat again when you die (and he knew you're gonna die A LOT). I very much agree that you shouldn't be allowed to suicide to collect a star coin (3D World Switch had the same problem). The Strawberries only collect when you reach safe ground, and I wish Mario would implement a system like that.
Anyway, great video, as always!
I love how Bowser's ipad still has a scratch from when he tried to digitize the Dangerous List of Evil™
About the item buffer storage: You can also store items in Super Mario Bros 2 (3DS) and Super Mario Bros (DS)
And world as well
@@mrptr9013 I had similar thoughts. While he sounds convincing. There are a lot of various pieces of evidence that say otherwise about his points.
thank you Ceave, i will never get tired of your insightful onions
49:06 That's not the wonder effect though. The wonder effect is either the rhythm mechanic in one, the being chased mechanic in the second one, the giant "raindrops" in the third one, the invisible paths in the fourth one.
Those wonder effects have all the same objective: Get the tokens. But the structure of the level sections where you do that are all different, as are the wonder effects themselves.
I think this one is a terrible example to support the argument that the wonder effects are being repeated, but even then it's still the best example for it. Because the wonder effects themselves barely get repeated.
Thanks for this comment. It's an odd claim in an otherwise solid video. Not every wonder effect is a total winner but each one only happens like 2-3 times throughout the entire game, and if the wonder effect is reused more than once, it's always in a new context with different obstacles or revamped to be much more challenging now that the player is familiar with the concept (see basically any special world level). Heck some effects, like turning into a fluff cube or metal mario only happen once!
@@0ceanking Yeah. I do think these claims hurt the point of the video a lot.
In these months I played the game again and 100%'d it, and there is an actual example. In world 5, they use the "become a blob" wonder effect three times, one of them being mostly pointless. I don't think it's a big deal though, it's a very fun wonder effect.
5:32 I see what you're doing there. Will we get a "can you finish Super Mario Wonder without pressing right" video? :D
I think someone else already did that.
Well, to play devil's advocate, the "star coins" in Wonder also count for 10 of the very Flower Coins needed to purchase critical items at the shops. Thus, the two ways to handle uncollecting them on death would have been to either let them still count for Flower Coins and thus have an easy infinite money exploit on their hands, or uncollect the 10s and risk a bit of a wonky sense of accomplishment because you could have sworn you'd collected a higher number of Flower Coins than what your total after the level would indicate.
if you recollect the coins later on you still get flower coins
They could have just added the flower coins you get from the 10-coins at the end of the level
The power up holder actually was in previous Mario games though.
Collectables staying collected after death is exactly how they work in 3D World as well, so that's only a change for 2D Mario, not unique to Wonder.
Has everyone forgotten about super mario bros 3? It was 2d and did it first.
@@notsyzagts7967
Nope. In that game, you could collect power-ups on the overworld, but not in the actual levels.
@@sidnew2739 I hope they meant Super Mario World.
Super Mario World 1 aside... in Yoshi Island you can store a bunch of items that you can use anywhere in the level.
@@QuarriesAndCorridors *3D world switch version
I was confused with where you were going with the Mario movie but made perfect sense when you laid out your point. What an incredible connection!
This channel is better than the main channel at this point ❤
Not to disrespect the fantastic content on this channel, but any content is better than no content, so you're not setting the bar very high there.
fr@@Trogloglation 🤣
I'd say... not really. The videos are better made and more polished, but the content of the videos itself was way better in the other channel.
@@TheLeviathan1293 agreed
I completely agree with you on the difficulty.
I even found the game boring some times, just having the feeling of losing my time completing easy levels without any challenge. I though it will become better as I go through the worlds, but no, most of the levels were short first-try levels without any kind of challenges.
I also hate so much the fact that you keep the star even if you die afterwards. It removes all the fun to try to collect them the correct way, even if the level design is sometime very well made.
I cannot understand why they made this decision.
Great video as always btw! You're producing such amazing content !!
I can’t get past the first couple worlds because of this. It has its moments but man does it feel dull most of the time.
I think this is mainly because they now allow you to choose which levels you want to complete in order to progress. Even in the final world there are still 1 star levels. They wanted to let players choose their difficulty. in my opinion I hate this decision, mostly. There's still too many easy levels with not enough hard ones. Even the secret world levels were easy
@@colecube8251 Which is why I’ll never understand why Nintendo felt like the mainline 2D Mario games needed to be fixed. Mechanical speaking the previous Mario games were fine because the difficulty naturally increased as you made your way through the later worlds. The pacing was consistent throughout those games, even though I still think they could’ve handled secret exits a whole lot better, but that’s an entirely different problem. Wonder’s pacing is all over the place because there’s no difficulty curve set in stone.
@@larrylazer yup exactly.
There is also the other Mario movie that put a shadow over the current one. I think Nintendo was trying to be careful to the point of keeping this '23 movie as safe as possible. They wanted to avoid another '93 movie.
This was a wild ride that all came together and pinpoints a lot of my feelings about the game. Thank you for taking the time to make this!
I enjoyed my time with Mario Wonder, but if I have to be perfectly frank, I'd give it a solid B-tier. Personally, I really like the new art direction and as much as people craptalk the talking flowers, I actually thought they were pretty charming and got a genuine chuckle out of me a couple times.
However, when it comes to level design, it's a but hit or miss to me. I understand that they were trying to go for a Mario Maker feel, but it didn't really work for me.
Another big problem I have with the game is lack of replayability. That isn't new to Mario games, I don't replay the Galaxy games particularly often because of the slow movement and slow levels. But with Mario Wonder, not only are there levels I have no interest in replaying, regardless of which badge I'm wearing, but there's zero incentive to try to challenge myself beyond bragging rights... to myself. A leaderboard and/or achievement system would've gone a long way.
Because of that, it made me go back to Super Mario 3D World. That game isn't a masterpiece, but the game was overall a bit harder and had more consistent level design. The game also keeps track of your fastest time, highest score and which characters you've used (which are that game's equivalent to badges), encouraging me to challenge myself. At first it was just for time, but soon I even went for score, which was surprisingly fun and gave a bit of depth to the otherwise short levels.
Key point is, you can have all the charm in the world, you could make it 1000 hours long, but if it's not fun beyond the first playthrough, or even the first couple hours, why bother.
I feel like calling Wonder rushed is just incorrect, there was no deadline, it's most likely that they put the focus on the levels as opposed to the bosses (levels barely reuse enemies or gimmicks), which left those areas bare and the dumb stuff like having to re-enter levels for the secret world. They felt like that was enough, and the game is still content complete even if those sections are disappointing, so I don't feel like those points really connect.
With most of the worlds having so many levels, we could have done with each of them having one or two less to focus more on giving this game the crucial stand-out roster of unique powerful enemies to take down that it so desperately needed, but no! Let's do NOTHING with Kamek, and hype up Master Poplin as this kung fu master, and do nothing with him either! They couldn't even bother to include Boom Boom and Pom Pom using Wonder Effects either for crying out loud!
I did think of those songs shoved into the movie with no purpose, but I never really thought of how that was reflected by the story and little jokes around the movie. Very interesting you brought that up.
Sorry for not watching your Outer Wilds video. I've never played it, and I want to experience it blind.
It's wild. I've never seen a fanbase this dedicated to making sure you played the game blind, dude. Even Subnautica fans weren't as crazy about you playing it without spoilers, which is why this is the only game for which I have actively AVOIDED spoilers.
Anyways, fantastic video, as always :3
I personally think the only thing that Super Mario Bros Wonder was lacking was bosses tbh. Otherwise a wonderful game! 👌
Yeah I was shocked when world 3 ended without a boss. It seems so anticlimactic. 2D Mario bosses have never been mind blowing, but this could've been the game to really shake that up.
@@Paul-to1nb I think that was honestly kind of the point? Not to feel anticlimactic, but I think them playing around with what a Mario world is expected to have as a part of the formula absolutely could've worked had the levels had that finality to them.
@@TheMarioman121 most of the worlds without bosses were way too short tbh
I really like that Shining Falls and Fungi Mines don't have a boss as it's a nice break from tradition. The problem I have with it is that those worlds are already so short, and could've used an extra level or two.
@@speedude0164 world 2's boss does not make up for it. In fact, it's easier than world 1's
Nice that Ceave called Tropical Freeze the best "traditonal" platformer. Because it's extremely hard to compare them with Action-Platformers (your more run&gun style games) which have a tendency to be focussed on the boss fights.
I was quite literally jumping on my chair when the old Ceave gaming intro started. Every single Ceave video is a wild ride in the best way possible.
So here I leave a comment for the algorithm, until I have the funds for more direct support.
Great video, I thouroughly enjoy your editing style. I was surprised by your conclusion. While I do agree that the boss fights are dissappointing and that Wonder doesn't reach its full potential, during interviews, Wonder's developers have said that they had no deadline and that they did not know anything more about the Mario movie other than the fact that there was one in the works. My theory for the lackluster boss fights is that they might have listened to people disliking 2D Mario's boss fights and decided to put less of them, or maybe that they wanted to focus more on pure, moment-to-moment platforming gameplay, a bit like the first SMB game. I would rather put my bets on a bad design decision rather than a greeedy decision from higher management, as Nintendo is known for rarely being like this when treating their games' development.
Also gotta consider that Super Mario Wonder is not made in a vacuum. It's made in the context of many other really nice platformers. There are quite a few things from Celeste that I think this game seems to have taken as inspiration (At least two wonder effects and maybe three, the timed stages). And Celeste has only one boss, at least in the traditional sense of the word (Badeline in chapter 6). The other "bosses" actually work like wonder flowers, bringing a new mechanic to the platforming.
There is also, say, Spelunky. Spelunky 1 (HD) has two bosses, one of which is optional, and the other is literally a Thwomp doing Thwomp things. Spelunky 2 has more bosses, but, same as before, only two of them really matter, as bosses. And one of them is still literally a Thwomp.
The same happens in Mario Maker. In a traditional level you want to add bosses. But in a platforming-focused level, like a kaizo level, you don´t need to add a boss. In fact, the best way to use one of them, Meowser, is precisely in a celeste way. He'll follow you for the entire level so he can add to the platforming by adding obstacles himself. In fact, that's exactly how he's used in 3D World.
So, you may want to focus less and less on bosses if you want more and better platforming.
It's a good day when Ceave uploads something, even on this underrated channel ;)
I'm glad you are so good at articulating and describing why things are issues so I don't look like a cynical old man when I don't like things that seem kind of minor.
That part at the end about the franchising, the wheels turning each other, being unable to delay a game to finish it leading to underwhelming releases, is exactly what has happened to Pokémon. The need to sync up a new main series release every three years alongside the anime has given us really a decade of disappointing, unfinished games. Mario has been able to avoid that so far, he delivers every time without fail, so I really hope Wonder isn't a sign of things to come. I enjoyed it, but I can't deny it was unusually easy and your complaints about the Bowser Jr and airship bosses being bland and repetitive are legit.
Never watched the other videos since they're all about games I've never played and don't want spoiled, so this is the first video on this channel I'm watching. I'm so glad you're still making videos on this channel, I loved your main channel analysis videos!
Same here!
For what it's worth, I think the problem with the outer wilds video might be with outer wilds itself. The few things I know about outer wilds are that:
- It's really worth playing
- It's really bad getting spoiled, like, getting spoiled would actively harm your experience
When I saw a video about resident evil or any of the nintendo games, I was happy to click it because I know I'm never gonna get around to playing it. I don't have the consoles to play them anyway. But for outer wilds, I got the video recommended like 15 times and didn't click it even though I usually watch your videos more or less immediately. I think there are a bunch of people for whom outer wilds has been sitting on their to-play or to-complete lists for a while and who are scared of getting spoiled in a way that they wouldn't be for most other games. Even if it's just like 10% of the ceave-watching population (and I believe it's actually higher, going from people around me), the exponential behaviour of the algorithm would massively slow down the video's growth.
While I have my doubts that it's the primary issue, you definitely have a point, considering that I'm choosing to skip the video for now for similar reasons.
Even if I do eventually play Resi 4 Remake I doubt the spoilers will affect my play experience too much, especially already being familiar with the original, and as for Nintendo games... Well, I play most of the big ones, and rarely do spoilers for them have an impact on me anyways.
I'm generally very lax when it comes to spoilers, but Outer Wilds has cultivated a certain reputation that I have left well enough alone. Probably just waiting to have better hardware for it at this point, my PC is awful.
I find your analysis towards the end of this very interesting, not because you're wrong exactly, but mostly because you present the Mario Movie > Mario Wonder > Mario is a Multimedia Franchise idea as if it's new.
The Mario franchise has been a multimedia franchise for... at least 30 years now I'd say? You sound like you're probably fairly young, and I'm not sure how far this extended outside of the US, but Mario as a multimedia franchise began in the 1980s. There were several Mario television shows and cartoon series, there was a ton of non-video-game Mario merchandise, and there was even a movie (though it was an insane live-action, artistic-license-laden, barely-related fever dream). That train has slowed a bit here and there in the ensuing years, but it never really stopped.
tl;dr - Mario as a multi-media franchise is far from something new, and in fact has kind of been the status quo since the mid-1980s.
This is an incredible video. I never would have thought I'd want a Ceave Reviews Films channel, but MAN do I want that now.
I do find it odd that in interviews before the game came out, some of the devs said that they had designed the game to be on the harder side and that some of the levels were too hard even for them. I would agree that most of the game is very much on the easier side
I absolutely love all of the Wonder effects and the vibrant level themes of Wonder. My only complaint is the reused bosses. 2D Mario games need more boss variety and not just constant Bowser Jr. and stepping on a switch.
I was literally watching one of your main channel videos for the first time in months and you upload right now.
I was surprised that this was not on your main channel but it does not matter!! I would be glad to watch any Ceave video.
The main channel is not for videos like this one.
Ceave continues to make me never regret having subscribed all those years ago. Absolutely based and amazing piece of media analysis.
41:30 I dislike how today people that want to criticize a product that ends being shallow needs to tiptoe around making criticism. even if something is "meant" to be shallow it's a good thing to note how and why it's shallow, and it doesn´t diminish the good times you had on the surface with that thing. But we can still criticize and demand things and products to be better and less shallow.
Sorry to hear about your Outer Wilds video. I haven't watched it yet because I haven't played the game yet, and I don't want the game spoiled since I plan to play it at some point. I truly love all the work you do and look forward to the next video!
I would love the option of using multiple badges at the same time. It would have been way more fun IMO to have like 2-3 of them Active at the same time.
Especially in co-op. The fact that we all need to use the same badge is a buzzkill.
Way too broken tbh. People are already complaining the game is too easy, this wouldn't do any good imo
@@Paul-to1nb WHAT?! OH MAN! WHY????
I actually mostly used the Additional Blocks Badge. Like why shouldn't I?
Plus it's weird that you can always wear exactly one badge, even though some badges are more powerful than others. What if each badge had a point value based on how powerful it is, and you had a limited number of points which you spend to put on badges. Some kind of... Badge Points perhaps?
@@mike_280I REALLY, really hope Nintendo will continue the Super Mario Series with Wonders 2 and change the Badge-System. I want them to actually make it EVEN more customizable
3:38 when he says "There is a goomba" I can't help but to see a part of the Bush texture being enlarged
It bothers me just as much if not more…
its a lovely day when ceave uploads
Yeah the mario movies use of pop music was probably my least favorite aspect of it, it never really fit. I don't mind their use of the Habanera though and don't think "it sounds vaguely Italian". I thought it worked well enough for the scene. It's also something that kids might know "from somewhere" without really knowing where it's from. It's used in Up, has been sang by Muppets, was performed on Sesame Street,..
That's actually a good point I didn't think about that.
Honestly I'm kinda shocked they didn't take more time to polish up the bosses considering during the direct that it was announced at not many people were expecting a new 2D Mario. Ironically the Koopalings would've been great bosses in this game
Imo mario wonder is one of the most beautiful video games art design wise imo and the devs used so many clevers tricks to make the game look better such as having the backgrounds be pre rendered 2d images layered atop each other to give the illusion of 3d
Just in terms of the animations too, I love how Wonder makes the world and characters feel much more... animated, for lack of a better word. Like, seeing the goombas freak out before you kill them or the elephant forms struggle to fit into pipes for a second really adds to the freshness of the game.
"Imo" stands for "in my humble onion" right?
Mario is becoming Pokemon. And that, really scares me. Multimedia franchises CAN work well, but often falls short of their own popularity and the expectations to get media out on a tight schedule
I was going to comment something like this about how the the takeaway point of the video is fearing that Mario could become Pokémon but you already did. Even though it's scary I think Nintendo could make it work quite well. Game freak is practically an indie developer at its core and have this "mandate" of releasing an important game anually. Meanwhile there are a few studios that work almost exclusively on Mario (Camelot or Next Level for example) and could serve to keep releasing quality games giving them as much time in the oven as possible (Wow I chose some bad examples being Mario Golf Star Rush and Mario Strikers Battle League their latest releases but well). Nintendo also said that they will always be primarily a Video Game Company (but never trust corporations when they say something like that).
I hope this just becomes an opportunity to see the Wahoo man in other contexts apart from video games and keep spreading how fun the franchise is to other mediums
It’s sad how accurate this is. The Switch Pokémon games look so bad while in motion and you can tell that Game Freak is getting lazy with their releases. The lack of difficulty in Wonder really keeps me bored in the game, especially when you have stages like the airships where you can just tell they’re building up to something, only to end in a disappointing boss fight, if you can even call it that. I’d hate it if Mario continues down the same rabbit hole that Pokémon has found itself in.
@@larrylazer Damn I didn't think I'd have to see yet more idiotic Pokémon slander under a fricking mario video essay. If you think the switch games look bad, you're wrong. I'm tired of having to explain it because it's obvious so you don't get an explanation. Pokémon didn't "get bad," you just grew out of it. Get over yourself.
@@larrylazer calling it lazy feels so unfairly reductive. Gamefreak only has about 170 employees (as of 2022, number is likely slightly different now but probably not dramatically), and they're releasing at least one, often multiple, games per calendar year. Games which have dramatic and unavoidable feature bloat by their core design (needing to make models for and balance a constantly increasing number of Pokemon being the main one. The reduction of the national dex size was necessary, inevitable, and a good thing for the games imo, and the fanbase is STILL mad about it years after the fact). I think Nintendo and the Pokemon Company and even Game Freak executive staff are so much more to blame than the developers being lazy. They've genuinely been set up to fail and the companies that set them up that way don't care because they still sell despite their ever-declining quality and Gamefreak gets all the blame for it anyway.
Every Pokemon I've played since they moved from 2D to 3D has given me the same exact feeling of missed potential. Not "a badly made, lazy game" but "a game that could have been great, if only it had an extra year in the oven." It's very clear to me that there's genuine talent there and it's stifled by deadlines and budget issues that the companies responsible for don't see as issues at all, because the game still make plenty of money and most Pokemon money comes from the other media anyway, they really just need the games to regularly introduce more Pokemon to sell merchandise of, and they don't need to run well to do that.
Thank you for taking the time to include captions!!!
I like the way you add a symbol to the channel banner with every new video, much like small completion goals leading to the larger goal, a banner where you struggle to fit new symbols onto it.
Using video game logic to motivate productivity is clever!
ceave use ai "art"... 3:
Reminds me of the Pokemon franchise, now that you've brought it to my attention. Good video.
I love your perspective on the Mario Movie. You fully point out and show how it's shallow and lacks solid artistic vision, but you're totally okay with that and seem to have a good guess as to the reasoning behind it. That's so interesting about the meme moments and how it's primarily a product, not cinema. I do now share the concern that the multi-media enfranchisement will hurt the series over time. I sure hope we see many more great games to come, though!
Love your content and im soo happy that you are back😊
Hope to find a new video on this channel soon.
I find myseld still every week checking if i missed a new video from you.
Please take your time to feel good while you give us still so nice videos😊
I truly loved your video and watching it while taking notes on video design is amazing! Great videos and great explanation for the design on what at first glance seems to be a silly video game. Truly loved your take on it!
Only think I didn't liked that much was the use of IA for images of peach and mario (if u used it) on the Karman section. I think it quality is too low for the quality of your videos and not that good for artist I think...
Great video anyways! Thank you!❤ ❤
I adore the way you analyze stuff, speculating their content, comparing them to games that are seemingly unrelated with as well as timeless pieces of media, like Carmen or Alice in Wonderland. It's so brilliant and fun to go through. Thank you for creating videos for us.
Let’s go! I’ve been looking forward to this video for a while, very excited to see this!
gonna have to bookmark this video for later as I'm holding on until I (hopefully) get the game at christmas and can't play it, I've heard so many great things I want to go in blind
The real nightmare in the final final stage (spoiler) was the invisible section at the end, not collecting the (one? two?) star coins after the last check point IMHO. Playing a platformer while not being able to actually SEE what you are doing will be the most cursed thing I'll ever have to do in a game unless someone forces me to play an RTS game keyboard only. Maybe it's easier on a big TV, but on a Switch Lite this was really unpleasant in a bad way,
5:31
Wait, an SMB Wonder challenge "without pressing left" is in progress of making? That's great
Hey Ceave, Sorry for your Outerwilds mishap. That video was amazing. It even made me buy the DLC of the game and play it. This video was great as well. All of your perspective videos feel great to be honest :). I always sit down to watch the full thing with full attention, which is something not much other youtube creaters can achieve. Lets hope youtube does not screw you over any more, so that you can keep making these great videos!
I get the hype for Super Mario Wonder, but seriously, Donkey Kong is still so much better. Specifically, Tropical Freeze is leagues ahead imo.
Loved the Ceave Gaming cameo
is the art in the background when youre talking about the opera ai generated?
That was my first impression for sure.
Very clearly is, yes. Kinda weird choice :/
I want you to know that the way you structure these videos is SO GENIUS
Fr it’s always mind blowing when he connects it all together 🔥
Amazing video as always ceave, was wondering when mario wonder would get a lil showcase
Now we need to see if we can beat wonder without a single one of those shiny yet deadly coins
Loved the video and especially found the takes on advertising and self-fulfilling games really interesting.
Yet, I dont quite share your views on the difficulty. While I also experienced the game as easy, I held it as I did with Elden Ring some time back (fitting since your plan on doing a vid on that game)
So I found Elden Ring extremely easy when I used spirit ashes, and you can, just as in mario, skip all the enemies to run to any loot in order to pick it up and be killed right after.
I personally think this to be a genius move that finally opens the souls game to an audience that doesnt have to spent ages to git gud, but others were free to make the game as challenging as they wanted to. I played without summoning, trying to kill every enemy at least once and even stopped leveling up on my quest to have my first run also be a completionist run.
Mario Wondermaker can be as difficult as you want it to be, as it doesnt force those extra powerups upon you, as well as still showing you the outlines of already collected stars.
The feeling is maybe not as fulfilling, but it enables throse with less time on their hands to achieve a similar feeling
But like I said - great video and the main reason for this comment, is to boost engagement
Cant wait for the next vid ❤
I unfortunately don't think I've ever disagreed more with you on a video. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the difficulty aspect, but I guess difficulty is subjective and the enjoyment of the platforming far outweighed any issue I had with difficulty. Movement in Super Mario Wonder for me was some of the best in the series and the badges let you mix that up in ways that I love. I don't necessarily need that difficulty to enjoy the game more, and if I wanted it, I could've experimented more with the expert badges I believe.
Difficulty is kind of a hard thing to nail, but for me, having to recollect Flower Coins can really kill the pacing of the game and make me annoyed, so I appreciate that Nintendo didn't make me recollect them. Maybe they could've had more options for more experience players, but that's a contentious issue. I didn't play online, so I never ran into that issue with difficulty, and the special world was probably one of the weaker aspects of the game, yet I enjoyed it nonetheless.
The fact that Super Mario Wonder only had 8 worlds didn't affect me in the slightest. This might be one of the most content dense 2D Mario games Nintendo has ever released. It took me 5 hours to beat NSMBU and NSLU back to back while it took me 8 hours to beat the main campaign for Super Mario Bros. Wonder. I don't think Super Mario Wonder is perfect by any means, but it does so many things that put a smile on my face that it ended up being my favorite game this year.
I find your last point to be very contentious and a bit too speculative and cynical. This game has so much love and polish put into it that calling it rushed feels wrong. You can end up not enjoying a design decision and feeling that it's underdeveloped, but Super Mario Wonder has so much love in care put into nearly every aspect of it, it's kind of hard to say what's rushed and what's not.
A lot of content can just be what the designers thought was the right choice. I would've rolled my eyes if they brought back the koopalings, and overall the Bowser Jr. Fights were memorable for me along with the Bower Castles. I didn't necessarily love the choice for the end of W3 and W5; I would've preferred a boss fight. But to call it a decision because they were rushed... at what point is something rushed and something just a decision they thought fit the theming of the world? One is to complete a bunch of trials and one is to save miners from dangerous caves.
Nintendo is a company, and at some point you need to release a game. That means you have to prioritize certain parts of the experience, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I feel like there will always be a gradient in every game. Not everything is going to be a home run, and not every design decision is going to mesh with every person, but there was a lot of love, effort, and care put into this game. So all I can hope for is that they learn from this experience and use that to make an even better game next time.
The New Super Mario Bros. games. kind of poisoned me on 2D Mario and the release of NSMBU felt like a new low for Mario to me and a lot of others; 3D World didn't help that perception for me that the series was going downhill. Super Mario Wonder is the innovation and return to form for 2D Mario that me and a lot of people were hoping for. It does a lot and is such a great game that it made me fall in love with 2D Mario all over again. I guess I just find it weird how negative and cynical your perception of this game is. There's no wrong opinion on the matter, but I can firmly say I don't agree.
Great video, just some weird points made in my opinion.
He still said it's the second best 2D platformer of all time. I get he was focusing more on the negative side of his opinions, but it's possible to love a game and still have some issues with it.
I think the Flower Coins only needed a Celeste like feature where you have to bring them back to solid ground in order to collect them. Suicide should never result in collecting something. Other than that, I love the fact that they save.
The fact that there's no 9th world, when that's been a pattern since since SNES, is very odd. I don't think the game was "rushed," but I believe that somewhere in development (early-mid probably) they decided that they wouldn't make a 9th world or a couple bosses and instead focus on polishing ensure the game released before the Switch 2. It's a fair compromise for me, although I'd like a W3+5 boss and better secret exit to the special world in those worlds.
I love Wonder and it made me appreciate 2D Marios for the first time, tbh. The attention to detail everywhere is astounding. I always preferred DKC1/2/R/TF over Marios released near them. The New series was incredibly depressing, but I went back to NSMBU after Wonder and found it's way better than I remembered (NSMB2, as well). I think it gets a bad rap since the New series was stale by then and the Wii one was pretty bad for single player.
@@Paul-to1nb I went back to the NSMB games recently. The only game where my opinion of it went up was the DS games. NSMB DS is the best and most creative of the NSMB games.
I didn't focus as much on the Flower Coins and Difficulty as you read since that's more a matter of preference and didn't bother me in the slightest for my playthrough, but I understand to each their own. I would've preferred some changes to some things of my own no doubt, but we could argue about these things all day and it would just come down to agree to disagree.
What really bothered me was the last part which was speculative and overly cynical in my opinion. Calling the game rushed and pointing to individual things that may or may not be indicative of that? It feels so off. This isn't a Corona Mountain situation. This isn't Super Mario Sunshine where it's obvious the game was rushed and we know that for a fact.
There are many reasons there might not be 9 worlds. It's a convention, but it's not needed. Maybe they made another world but felt like it didn't live up to their quality standard. Maybe they thought 9 would be good, but only had enough ideas for 8. Each world has extremely strong theming so I can see that being the case. Also each of the 7 main worlds are way meatier than any past Mario game for the most part. So that's another thing.
That last point... It just does not sit right with me in the slightest especially when you can see how much effort was put into this game. I feel like it's insulting to the people who put so much hard work into this game. No level overstays its welcome and they experiment with so many ideas, it's insane. Ofc there will be rough patches and not everything is gonna stick the landing, but saying that it's rushed because of that? I feel like it's reaching very hard.
it's great that there is still room for improvement. there was that interview where supposedly mario wonder had no deadline. to say content was cut to rush the game out carries negative connotations.I think its more fair to say it got to a point where they limited the scope . I don't think Bowser Jr. was tacked on as filler. nor the airships. i think if they had wanted to add more boss characters they would've been some of the earlier levels designed and implemented. though I think part of it may have also been a we want to stick to iconic main characters.
Sure us in the gaming sphere all know the koopalings by name. but other people don't. I think other parts would've been deprioritized first.
@@Paul-to1nbI don't think having every World either end with fighting Jr over and over again, or having no boss at all is a fair compromise. It isn't fair that the game's climaxes, something that many gamers are supposed to look forward to at the end of every World, should be given so little attention. With Pipe Rock Plateau, Fluff Puff Peaks, Sunbaked Desert, Deep Magma Bog, and Petal Isles having so many levels, the dev team could have shaved off one or two of them from each to give more time to improve on the game's boss lineup. When you end every World with either the same character or no boss at all, have Kamek and do nothing with him, reduce a kung fu master like Master Poplin into being all talk and no action, and ending every single airship level with an insultingly easy 5-second sprint towards the kill switch, that reeks of one too many cut corners.
a fascinating and well thought-out video :O I just have to wonder why I had to stumble across it instead of hearing about this channel on your other channel!
Really love your use of music and sound effects here!
Oh my God and I thought I was the only one pointing out the completly dumb and irritating message of the Mario Movie :D
As always, what an incredible, creative and extremly entertaining review. Really loved the part about the Mario Movie!
Probably one of my favorite channels on youtube, thanks for your great content :D
I really hated how easy the game was. Nsmbu wasn't harder by default, but my favorite thing about that game is the challenges. Getting gold medals in everything is really hard and i feel like something similar could've been added to wonder too
Big props for getting that much movie footage in and skirting copyright
The content output Ceave is doing is actually insane considering the time he has to put into it
For me the game felt like playing a fever dream lol. Glad others like it
Is that bad?
Thats the entire concept of Mario
By the way you phrased that you don’t mean in a good way?
The joy of playing a fever dream without being in a fever dream :D
53:45 And in my opinion, this is what poisoned the Pokémon franchise. The games have a harsh drop in quality because they *must* be released every three years to keep the multimedia franchise going.
Three years if you're lucky
And “every three years” is how it used to be done in THE 2000s, and not even strictly that.
I have been WAITING for this video. As soon as the game came out i was waiting for the Ceave Perspective on it.
I really enjoyed both the game and this analysis, great video as always, love your content ❤
The entire time I was playing Mario Wonder, I kept saying to myself, "This feels like a Mario Maker level."
Good to see I am not the only one who noticed that Nintendo took inspiration from Mario Maker.
Same here. I made this comment on another video, but anyone who has played, made or watched a lot of Mario Maker levels will notice many common Mario Maker level design tropes, hacks and themes sprinkled throughout Mario Wonder. I remember there was one level with a vertical standing pipe spawning powerups from it, with two blocks on either side of the pipe to prevent the powerup from escaping. That's a very common design in Mario Maker stages. And those awful search party levels full of hidden blocks are right out of the worst hot garbage Mario Maker levels.
Amazing video as always, Ceave. Celeste is an indie platformer I’d be really interested to hear your take on, as I think it has unique solutions to a lot of the issues you discussed in this video!
My only disagreement with this video is that Celeste is the greatest platformer of all time, with tropical freeze coming in a close second
While an awesome game, that's a super wild comparison...
that's actually a perfect comparison! I think the wonder seeds are similar in function to the level themes in Celeste, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some inspiration...
Just finished the video, and wow, you never miss :)
This Video is absolutely Amazing i am so thankful that you are back on CZcams.
I really loved your analysis of the multimedia mario machine near the end-it reminds me of whats clear to see in the Pokemon franchise.
(As a side note, I'd be happy with simpler visuals or even just gameplay footage instead of AI art)
Keep up the good work!
Great video dude. You explained my issues with the game (especially the boss fights and inconsistency of wonder challenges) perfectly. I'm going to go ahead and play Frozen Ape I guess
I don't understand why people dislike the boss fights in mario wonder so much. Yes, they are all Bowser Jr but so what? Would you like the bosses more if they just copy and pasted different Koopaling models in? People say they are all the same, but the wonder effects in the boss fights shake them up and make them actually interesting and enjoyable. Just because you have to defeat the boss by jumping on them doesn't mean it's the same exact boring boss.
That is true, jumping on a boss (even the same boss) is not the problem. It is that the Wonder gimmicks make them functionally the same as some versions of Koopaling battles, where a Koopaling may have mildly challenging environments to challenge them in, with one or two somewhat difficult ones. Except here they are all Bowser Jr., there are only four of them, and there is not even a significant shake up amidst those four battles.
The problem is that this is effectively like battling four Koopalings and saying the other three were shopping for furniture.
Because "Yoshi's Island" (which is still the best 2D MARIO-game imho) exist and had really original bosses.
Something like that would have fitted perfectly in Mario Wonder.
Even Kamek shows up here.
49:49 They are also not repeated. Bowser Jr. works the same way, but with a twist. First one is a little like Baby Bowser in Yoshi Island, second one has a honey phase in which he acts like SMW Lemmy and an ice phase with ice physics, and there is the water one in which you fight with underwater features. Then there is the one in which you get the silhouette effect making it harder to figure out which is the real one.
I think the best thing in a 2D platformer (At least one without a complex health and combat system) is to make bosses simple, and if anything you could get rid of most of them and it's perfectly fine. Celeste literally has a single boss. Spelunky 2 has five bosses, and only two of them really matter as a boss (Olmec and Hundun, the rest of them you'll rarely see or you'll literally ignore). In
the ultimate challenge for that game there are no bosses.
The third and the fifth worlds of SMBW, without bosses, end with such nice platforming levels with amazing endings, I don't know why you want a boss there.
Uh, maybe because many of us LIKE having bosses to fight? And even if you think bosses in a 2D Mario game should be simple, the least the dev team could have done was make every boss a different character, especially if they were going to have so few in a mainline 2D Mario game like. But no! The devs didn't even have the common courtesy to do that for us!