Comparing The Ford Barra N/A LPG & Turbo Engines
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- If you're considering A Barra conversion on your project car, then this video may help you on deciding which engine to use!
In this video i disassemble 3 Ford BF MK2 Barra engines and go through some of the differences between the NA, LPG and Turbo models.
Green Top Comparison Video:
• Comparing Ford Barra G...
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Music in this video:
The Greeting Method
Fictitious Me
0:00 Intro and Brief Overview
1:38 External Walkaround
4:19 NA Disassembly
8:42 Stripped NA Overview
9:48 LPG Disassembly & Overview
13:48 Turbo Engine Disassembly
18:05 Turbo Head Overview
20:50 Turbo Bottom End Overview
23:07 Outro - Auta a dopravní prostředky
So hard to find a legitimately informing video on these beastly engines. Thanks for this man
Thanks for checking it out!
@@EverythingFuzzY hey mate some of the fg gas also come in silvertops are they the same thick rods or not and do you think they were gas converted or not and also should I buy a fg gas silvertop
What an excellent, informative channel you have. The people responding to also give real quality information. You deserve much higher subscription rates so I will be doing my bit and sharing your videos as wide as I can. Please keep up the excellent work
Thanks for the rad comment, mate! Just trying to give people the help i didn't have when i did my conversion. Thanks for the support, i appreciate it!
Handy tip with the brittle clips on wiring connectors, before touching them, hit them briefly in a sweeping motion with one of those small handheld butane torches, it softens them back up so they won't break when touched.
Thanks for the tip! I’ll give it a try next time.
Being a Holden person, I still found this video to be excellent and well presented. Already a legendary motor this one with so much potential and ease of upgrade with the cams up top and a Turbo in the family. Probably one of Holdens biggest downfalls considering how well they respond to a Turbo. LPG doesn't wash the oils off the piston walls but the burning of LPG puts nitrates into the oil. Unless you run a high detergent oil and a decent C (diesel) rated oil then it will break down and cause a dirtier motor.
finally i get to have a barra turbo'd na after like 22 years of waiting great video i have 3 engiens to tear down and fix one gas ba bf one na bf ba one fg2 na fantastic info thanks for brushing me up on my barra lore
Love how your so straight forward and don't carry on like you no everything.
Great work mate. Keep up the good work. 👍
The injectors are the same as stated, they increase the cc of the injector by running the higher bar regulator
This was a really cool video man! Thank you I appreciate it!. I learnt alot and it was really cool all your research you've done! Good on you dude!
Awesome video, well documented easy to understand, thankyou for taking your time making this video and clearing up some misconceptions about the Barra motor.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hay dude what a great video, you did a truely awesome job on the editing. You really taught everyone in the world interested in the Barra something. 👍 and a new subscriber.
Thanks for watching and for the rad comment!
Good informative video.
There’s also another version of the “silver top” (unpainted valve cover) naturally-aspirated “Barra” six. It’s the EcoLPI. This has computer controlled liquid-phase-injection (LPI) of LPG. They have 12:1 compression ratio pistons. These engines are two levels of LPG engine technology above the “green top” E Gas (LPG carbureted) engine seen in this video. They produce more torque & power than the naturally-aspirated petrol version.
I’d be interested to know which version of connecting rods are used in the EcoLPI “Barra” sixes? Given that these engines only have air flowing through their intake manifolds, and not fuel & air mixture like the E Gas (“green top”) engines, there’s no risk of backfiring, which can cause bent connecting rods. That is why the E Gas engines are said to have came with thicker rods like the turbocharged versions also have. 🚙
Thanks for the watching! I have heard different info regarding the LPI motor, i would love to pull one down but they're still a bit pricey at the moment.
I have an FG MK2 EcoLPI. It has the same throttle body as the NA petrol. The Egas FG Mk1 had a different throttle body.
Thanks. I was going to ask about that. As I have the FG XR6 MK2 EcoLPI with the grey/silver motor :)
Finally a vid of all the differences cheers
Aweosom video mate thankyou for the information ! super underrated CZcamsr, 100k subs coming
Mate you're too kind! Hope i get to see your FG at the strip soon!
Wow it’s a small world. I remember setting up the sound for Warrnambool coastal jam and talking to you about your EB and having a chat about my ba xr6 turbo Ute with a gas motor in It and now I stumble upon your you tube channel. Such a great and informative video to watch and your an awesome bloke to talk to in person 👍
Haha pete! That was such a rad gig, hopefully tee up another gig with you guys soon! How’s the stato treating you? Thanks you checking out the video dude!
Was a awesome gig that weekend. Everything went awesome. The WK just went to the Warracknabeal drags and I placed second in my class making it all the way to the finals. Will hopefully see you at the next gig and get to talk some more 😀
Again, great video. Enjoyed your myth busting 3 x gas motor pull down video too. The rumor that ba gas motors had 1R spaghetti legs must have had the spreader LOL. Cant confirm but bought parts off a guy who tuned his na based turboed fg to 600hp rear wheel. Car still lives on that tune. Tells me he destroys a lot of contenders at the lights that fg does. Good, cheap, fun.
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant Video mate..thanks for taking the time to show case these motors.....
Thanks for watching!
Nice work man, a good watch.
Underrated content, great vids mate
Much appreciated!
Best video..
No one has even bothered to do a video like this..
Thanks 👍
Thanks for checking it out!
Thank you for a great video very helpful for me to consider an engine , well explained .
Cheers mate, thank you for your efforts and knowledge. Nice work.
Much appreciated!
Enjoyed the video, very informative. keep up the great work.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
Thanks mate, informative video. Nicely shot so I could see what you were talking about too.
Thanks for watching!
Hey bro -- awesome and informative channel ..... learnt a bit myself so thnks... awesome job...
Great information as always mate. Cheers
Thanks for watching!
Would love to see a bf mk1 and ba turbo motor pulled down and see the difference, awesome video mate!
Thanks for watching!
Im so glad I watched this...since I bought my xr6 I have thought alot about reconditioning the motor myself, just for the experience. No WAY am I doing it now..far more complicated than I imagined and way too many 'bits' ...lol..thanks, great video :) EDIT: I just read the persons comment regarding the 3k spent on custom rods and pistons in a donor motor for the turbo conversion...now Im interested again..haha..sub added
Nothing better than grabbing some tools and figuring it out yourself! Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed!
If you love stripping engines check out the all alloy 2.5 Lt 4 banger used in the mazda sp25 2009-2013 it's an L5 engine code capable of handling 500hp unopened. Completely forged bottom end standard, Nobody has a bellhousing to turn them into rear wheel drive yet , I'm working on that , the 2.5 is made by Ford for Mazda , highly regarded engine very few people know its true potential.
You can make them rear wheel using a nc mx5 6 speed gearbox. The l5 is a common swap for nc mx5s
Awesome video thanks for taking the time to explain everything properly, iv got a question iv always thought about it are the roller rockers all the same across all three engines?
Great job Love the music and that t-shirt 💪
Thanks for watching!
Great vid 👌 explanation v knowledge on topic on point.. not too much taking crap, just gettin on with the job at hand and reason for the vid 🍻 👍👍
Thanks for the rad comment! Glad you enjoyed it.
Que vídeo sensacional! Parabéns ❤️🔥
Gday m8 thank you for putting this video up . very helpful 👌
Thanks for watching!
Great video, I learnt a lot..thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Excellent video mate.
Thanks for watching!
thank for your information between two piston on lpg v turbo so now l understand
Great video.
Just fyi, the all camshafts are the same from n/a to turbo. Used to be a parts manager at a Ford dealer and the part numbers when having to order a new camshaft, parts numbers are the same whether it’s n/a, gas or turbo.
Great content 👌
Thank you!
Hey bro great video. Heaps of useful info. I learnt alot. Could you possibly set up the different cams with a dial gauge and degree wheel to see if there are any differences in lift, duration, overlap etc. Would be interesting to see if there any and what they are. Cheers
Thanks for watching! Yeah, a dial gauge and wheel would definitely answer some of my questions but unfortunately i don't feel confident in my ability to take those measurements accurately!
A Ford dealer technician, who was trained about the “Barra” sixes, told me that the original camshafts for all these engines are the same. Assuming the EGas variant isn’t computer controlled, then all but that variant have their inlet & exhaust camshafts independently phased to optimise performance. For example, the overlap between inlet & exhaust valves will most likely be controlled to be less than for the naturally-aspirated engines, when boost is occurring with the turbocharged variants. That is to minimise boost being wasted by blowing through the engine during the brief periods when both the inlet & exhaust valves are open at the same time. 😎
Good stuff your putting out here
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching.
Thank you for this video! My heater hose is rotting at the thermostat and haven't known what it's called to order a new one, thanks :)
Great video mate, subbed 👍
Thanks for watching!
best intro ever
Good vid man, and great intro :) you got another sub from me
Haha thanks for watching. Spewin i lost the 10mm deep socket!
nice work my dude!
Thanks for the watching!
I just subscribed legend, Bloody great video mate I have a 2007 Fairmont Silver Top 6 speed auto and I'm just wondering what I have to do to up some power on the cheap with out comprising reliability? 🤙🍻
Awesome vid brother! Just subd 👍
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for sharing !
My pleasure!
2nd very informative engine video. Wholeheartedly agree on your theory of the valves. I’ll save this video to share on a lot of ill informed posts
Thanks for watching!
good work. great video
Thank you! Cheers!
G’day mate great video, I’m on the hunt for a Barra for my Xb Ute. Any recommendations on which one would be best to go for considering it’s probably going to have to be completely gone over anyway. I do want to run a turbo but not going to pay top dollar for a turbo engine
Good stuff. I have a black top turbo territory engine. I'm going to assume they're the same as the xr6 red top, just didn't want the colour I guess.
Great information
Thanks for watching!
Great info, I've watched it several times. I have now disassembled my territory turbo engine because of a big end knock. The crankshaft has damage. Do you know if a N/A crankshaft is the same as a turbo?
Fuzzy you still have a red top apart? Would be super interesting to measure the factory ring gaps between green/red/silver. Can’t find the info anywhere
Thanks mate!
Anytime!
going off the rod part number and gudgeon pin diameter, looks like LPG amnd turbo rods are the same part, but the turbo rods have a press fit bush as an addition(probably to help with the extra loads).
what surprises me, is the facrt the turbo gudgeon pins have a smaller diameter.
they must have a much thicker walled pin for the loads.
ive been doin my own plugs etc on my old 1980 corona,for 23 years,i just bought a 2011fg xt..i watched you pull it down ,does it even HAVE sparkplugs?
If the circlips in the turbo are the wire type you can just flick them out with a screwdriver there should be a small indentation used for fitting and removing the clip put you hand over it as they tend to just disappear. Ive never had a barra set apart as i left the engine reconditioning game before the barra came along but most of the euro cars use wire type circlips and the japanese stuff used flat ones with the little holes for circlip pliers. The secret to the falcon engines long life is the material the block is made of back in the day we would rebore maybe 20 holdens to 1 falcon, the blocks tend to outlast the cars. Takes longer to hone out a falcon cyl as well.
Thanks for watching! Yes, pulling the pin out of the turbo assembly would be easy but i don't have a shop press or correct tools to push out the pin on the LPG/NA assembly and i didn't want to risk damaging it.
love the shirt
Good onfo thanks I always wondered if the FGmk1 and BF mk3 wagon LPG gas engines after about mid 2009 with the silver tops, are just as good as the green tops that proceeded them. Suspect they are really "green tops" less the green paint to save about $2.46 per car. Or did ford downgrade that gas engine after mid 2009 to save a few more dollars?
I have heard the BF mk3 LPS wagon engines were a green top but with a silver rocker cover. Unfortunately i have had a chance to grab one and pull it apart to check!
Hey mate! Question, can you use a bottom end of an N/A barra to a turbo? Blown the bottom end my turbo Barra (red top) but I’m not keen on buying a red top motor
Do the barras have the sbf bell housing pattern?
A blue top or black top would be great too.
Good video dude, I have a question about bf mk2 na and xr6t motor short block. Is there a difference in wall thickness comparing the na with xr6t? Soon to start na bf convert to turbo. Cheers mate.
Not that I know of!
0:49 Silvertop also went into XR6
Sure did! I forgot to mention that.
Thanks for watching!
Ive Had a Territory with a Na Thats been my parents family car for most of my High school years and its been sitting for the last couple of years thinking of bringing it back giving it a service or maybe a rebuild and turboing it but Thanks for the vid 👍🤣
Yes fucking do it mate up the territory
hi mate , can you tell me why people always choose the gas engine to do up , and turbo ? instead of a standard NA motor ? cheers
good video mate, doesnt matter how many times people are told tho they will always make up their own mind tho, i ran a wrecking yard for years and people would come in and spend more money and ask for a 06 onwards gas engine and pay extra for it just thinking they are diffrent and wouldnt listen when i told them otherwise, then people buying gas motors and wanting to do a rod and piston upgrade ??? i would say buy a high km nugget petrol motor and save your money, nope wouldnt listen, also when removing and fitting the timing covers, the sump comes off first from factory, when built the sump is fitted after the timing cover to stop risking rolling the front main seal when pushing the timing cover on, just a tip when putting them back together
That's exactly right, mate... and the very reason i bought the NA motor in the first place. In my green top comparison video i got accused of swapping the pistons/rods in the BA Gas motor to get views. Doesn't matter what i show on video... people will believe whatever they want.
What's the difference between a 2007bf green top motor and a 2010black top motor both gas
What a awesome informed video, what would be chances of doing the Boss 4V V8 and the Barra 3V V8
Thanks for watching! I'd love to get my hands on some V8 engines but they're way more costly than a barra, unfortunatly!
I have a ford barra block silver engine, what if I add a turbo?
Yep only fuel pressure reg is different injectors are the same for turbo and n/a. Watching the cam sensor clips break 😂 they always do easy to get new clips just D pin out of the old one and re pin into new clip
I'm looking to do a Turbo Barra swap on a 1986 Ford Ranger. Note I am in the US. So I am looking for a rear sump petrol turbo Barra. Which Barra would that be? FG?
I want to have the engine built for about 500hp in Australia before being shipped to the US. But I want it over built so I'll never be close to it's limits. Of course because spares aren't exactly available here, so a failure will be highly time consuming. I also want to mount a T56 6-speed manual behind it.
What are your recommendations and whom should I get in contact with?
the numbers prefixing the part number looks to be a date code 06 = 2006, 036/008 = week made, the "-6" may be the day even so could be the 25th of February 2006 that cam was made..
Only guessing by similar date codes used by ford..
more speculation, the 296 could be degrees of Intake Duration, and the 250 the valve lift? 250/1000 inch, or quarter inch?
My 03 BA Fairmont (195 K) blew out a sparkplug on #3 last week.. Now has no compression at all on that #3 plus some other new internal noises.. for economical reasons, not stripping down to find problems just replacing motor... mechanic found a goodun with only 140ks on it...nz$500 and 6 month warranty...love your vid.. cheers
When I popped it it probably got a peice stuck between the piston and the wall and but a gauge there by taking away the compression
@@snapped4433 . I'm thinking the new internal noise could be valve damage or bottom bearing ? Anyway, I thought 5 hundy for a replacement motor with 50k less wasn't too bad.
@@squiddly-diddly yeah. Was it a LPG, turbo, naturally aspirated engine barra or a v8?
@@snapped4433 was na.. cracked the cover as well when the plug blew out..plug actually broke in half...my brother has an 05 LPG..gets 700km from a tank but many LPG filling stations are being closed over here.
@@snapped4433 the old engine was pretty good on fuel..9 l / 100km on open road..was only doing 1700/1800 rpm at 110kph.
Sprints have black tops as well
Thanks for letting me know!
So what I’m gathering from the video is that the heads are the same part numbers on the outside between NA motors and turbo motors, the difference being the valves between them. With that being said, if I had done a head on an Turbo motor, would I be able to swap an NA head over to it with no issues? And swap the valves with the O on it over or is that not possible?
Thanks for the informative video too
Cant buy a bare head from Ford.Only as an assy minus camshafts
Is it safe to turbocharge a green top with it still running on lpg?
So that's like a gen 3 autogas system (green bara)?
Have you got a video of an LPI engine teardown to differentiate between the standard gas verse’s the injected gas with the 12.5 compression ratio.
Nah no ecoLPI video. A lot of people have been asking for it, though. if i find an engine cheap enough! Thanks for watching!
Anyone have any info on the "Green Top" Intech in an AU Taxi?
Great video bud! Personally I didn't need the music.
Thanks for watching!
Good man
(Like)
Are all the cranks the same
You got a black top in the FGX sprint
Thanks for letting me know!
So essentially the bottom end is still the same and its the head that's different. You could just swap a turbo head ?
Here in South Africa we get red top N/A barras for sale 🤔
Can prob check if the rocker cover is painted or they blocked the oil return line on the block if they removed the turbo
I've seen them in Aus too. Don't know if they were ex-turbo.
@@donotwantahandle1111 Yea prob but def not a N/A barra,the older 6 cyl AU single cam falcon had a red cover...
Wouldn't be surprised if you get our older Aus n/a ford motors
I see they say on the adds 4.0 barra TJHH the territory turbo engine here in South Africa has a black top but I've also seen some adds where they selling N/A barras here silver top that is gas motors 🤷🏻♂️
Hi, just wondering if my 2007 SY - TX territory with a Barra 4lt motor with 4 speed box, can be turbocharged without too much alteration? Or is it not a good idea, Sorry... just learning.. Rob
Hey mate i have turbocharged my 2007 SY territory NA. Im running 5 psi atm with no problem at all. Im doing bigger injectors, fuel pump and maybe bigger value springs awsell for 10-12 psi
you may be able to help, I have a SERIES 2 BF 07 N/A Falcon , but I have had problems getting the right parts when ordering. it appears that I have a BA block fitted, and it appears that it has come from factory like that , as the hose clamps still had the factory fitted snap off clamps. I have a different oil filter and starter motor that are off the BA. do you have any idea how this has happened, it doesn't look like it been swapped....
No idea, sorry mate! Have you checked the engine number matches the vehicle id plate? that would confirm if the engine has ever been changed.
Good vid dude' wish someone would do this for 2jz eng's
People saying the turbo xr6 or what so ever is better . Remember, it’s still a Barra the mighty falcon 🇳🇿💥
wait hold up. i just bought a 2011 FG Turbo a couple weeks ago and it has a black top barra in it. Also is labelled FPV on the dash of the car. Has someone engine swapped a territory motor into this thing?
Is it an FG sprint? I’ve heard they have black rocker covers too.
hey mate you should do a video on the turbo territory motor vs the ba- bf f6 typhoon motor vs the turbo bf 06/06 on motor as a lot of people say there the same internally would be interesting to see the piston and Conrod configuration
Hey mate, i'd love too but the cost of blue top/FPV barras is simply way to high for my small youtube channel haha. Maybe one day!
Thanks for watching.
@@EverythingFuzzY totally understand mate thanks for the reply 🤙
Would I be able to buy a cheap Barra off you . I need to budget build one for rocky nats next year and people are wanting crazy money
BF E-Gas & N/A timing are identical parameters depending on load obviously. Initial valve timing overlap for advanced & retarded graphs are (valve overlap was fixed at 25°, intake duration 251° & exhaust duration was 246°) - where as the intake & exhaust duration on the Barra 190 was 256° plus the petrol had the ability to vary valve overlap from -35° to 85°.
*Intake* (pin lock position)
Open - 27.5° BTDC
Close - 48.5° ABDC
**Exhaust**
Open - 78.5° BBDC
Close - 2.5° BTDC
**Intake** (10° advanced)
Open - 37.5° BTDC
Close - 38.5° ABDC
**Exhaust**
Open - 88.5° BBDC
Close - 12.5° BTDC
**Intake** (50° retarded)
Open - 22.5° ATDC
Close - 98.5° ABDC
**Exhaust**
Open - 28.5° BBDC
Close - 47.5° ATDC
Thanks for the detailed info! Is their any benefit to swapping camshafts between these motors? I wouldn't think the gain overall would be worth it.
@@EverythingFuzzY Best swap you can do to any BF or FG is f**k off the dog 2.73 gears in N/A 6sp auto models 🤣🤣 really wakes them up with 3.27's. I don't think there is any gain for the green top, Ford set them up pretty decent. The EcoLpi was where the gains were. From a daily driven n/a perspective. Especially considering peak power came in 1000rpm sooner than the petrol counterpart.
What oils for greentop? Can you use diesel spec 20w50. Cheapest option
I use 15w/40 Nulon in my greentop.
On the BA Turbo even though it says 'Dual VCT' and it still has the 2 vct solenoids, the exhaust solenoid isn't connected to the loom and the engine only uses the intake cam phasing.
Actually both VCT solenoids are connected to the ECU. They’re pins 641 for VCT 1 and 642 for VCT 2 on the “A” connector of the BA ecu. What you’re referring to is the lack of independent cam phasing which is actually a software limitation and wasn’t implemented until BF. The ecu does control both camshafts but any changes in timing affect both camshafts.
@@EverythingFuzzY
Hmm maybe the previous owner of my XR6T removed the plug for god knows what reason as it certainly wasn't there.
I sold the car a long time ago but when I changed the spark plugs it struck me as odd at the time.
@@johno9507 people do some weird things! Maybe it had a fault or something? Thanks for watching!
Are the rod lengths and piston compression height the same
Rod length is the same. Compression on the LPG and N/A is a domed piston with 10.3:1 and the turbo is a dished piston with 8.7:1.
My factory 2010 lpg fg motor is not green? Just looks like the na but obviously with all the lpg components any reason?
They probably were running low on green covers.