Shimano Drivetrain Comparison - XTR vs. XT vs. SLX vs. Deore
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Shimano has multiple drivetrain levels and in this video, we are going to explain the differences between them all. Consider this your Shimano Drivetrain Buyer's guide. Recently, Shimano completed their hierarchy of drivetrain groupsets with the release of the Deore 12 speed groupo. With the borrowed technology from XTR, XT, and SLX, there is a 12-speed drivetrain offered at every price point. In this video, Jeff walks us through the physical differences, weights, and shifting characteristics of each drivetrain group kit. Also included is a deep dive into each group's individual components which include the crankset, chainring, shifter, derailleur, hub spline, and chain. Get comfortable and take it all in!
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#shimano #drivetrain #comparison - Sport
Protip: The XT shifter works on SLX and Deore, giving you double downshift capability (and nicer shift feel) on the cheaper groupsets.
Good tip. Getting an expensive cassette, chain (consumables) or rear derailleur (likely to break) just doesn’t make sense.
Aren't all the Shimano components cross compatible between groupsets as long as they're the same gear count?
@@isthisnametaken978 I'd say even beyond that..I use a zee derailleur in a 36 tooth cassette, which, although 10 speed like the derailleur, it shouldn't work because of the gap between cogs, but it's worked smooth for the last three years, plus, I use an altus 9 speed crank, and even with the bigger chainring pretty much destroyed for me using it as a bash guard it still works fine with and I never have chain dropping. Summing up, if you wanna follow the manual rules then the answer is not always (like zee components with bigger cassettes for instance) now if you don't mind experimenting a little, then you can even extrapolate that rule a little.
@@isthisnametaken978 At least one counter-example comes to mind: The latest Shimano Tiagra 4700 road groupset is 10 speed but has a different pull ratio than other/older 10 speed groupsets.
@@PedroHenrique-dn1dj I've been using zee m640 shifter paired with deore xt m786 derailleur, both 10 speed. Shifts without a problem, except some delay in shifting down from 8th to 7th gear. Probably because I had to tighten the b screw to accommodate the 42t cassette, larger than m786 was intended for. Or could be because it's a cheapo offbrand cassette from China. Or a combination of both. But I doubt it's because the zee/deore xt combo.
It's incredible how genuine and honest he is. Not pushing higher priced items. I seriously only want to buy from these guys after seeing these videos. Great work!
Thanks mate! I believe honesty is the best policy. I'm not here to BS people. 👊
They don't call him Honest Jeff for nothing
Chris Mitchell you have no idea. They are the most humble dudes EVER. During this pandemic they have been nothing short of AMAZING. I have purchased stuff from them in the past 2 months and will do even more in the future. Jeff is amazing and the dudes who work for them as well.
It's not always pushing the higher sale if they'll return it...
This video made me a customer of theirs.
After watching this video I ended up going SLX rather than XT and have some $ left over for several rounds of post ride beers (once we are safely able to do so). Thanks for being a man of the people!
Get the Deore and spend the saved money on a high end fork instead.
Or treat your other half so you can ride anytime you want :D
@@mazditzo works best if she really wants a Garmin watch and the watch is already in the mail when you order a new bike!
Yup, Get Deore with XT shifter, spend the money you save on other upgrades.
*get cheap suspensions components (a base model to serve as a chassis) and made them custom tuned by someone (eg. avalanche). it will be faaar better than anything fancy, over marketing bullshited, heroin priced shit.
You don't need a high end fork you dunderheed .. you just need better riding skills ....dave yer money If you really want suspension that actually works .. Buy a Motorbike
I feel like the difference is night and day when you are shifting in real life applications with loads of torque. This is when for example the XT or XTR truly shine as you can shift while at full power and it doesn’t cause any problems which for me is a game changer
For competitions or as a sponsor bike ok i would agree otherwise for daily use the XTR doesn't make any sense with that price.. i get the upper quality materials are expensive but still one full XTR set costing 4x Deore sets is insane : like i could have 4 different fully Deore equipped bikes or one bike fully equipped with Deore set and still 3 full sets as spares to replace.. just say'n regarding XTR price, so in my case for double switching thru gears i would really get XT shifters +rear deraylor and everything else Deore since they are compatible and still benefit of the 2x faster nicer shift feel. brakes in my case i got full set front +rear Magura MT7 - with 4 pistons they work awesome.. so yeah..
Youre crap is probably not adjusted correctly. For the average rider an slx or max xt is acceptable
@@serafinlagunas yeah you’re totally right. XT is perfect
the R in XTR stands for Rich!
😂 Probably!
Either that or race
Xpensive To Replace
@@scottpatterson8289 SLX - slightly less xpensive
Actuality it means, eXTraRich! See what I done there?🙃🤣
I don`t race and I have a family to support so the Deore stuff looks just right for someone who only rides for fun and does not give a crap about MTB snobs.
Ain’t that the truth! I am lucky enough that I can ride almost every day of the week.
I am rocking a budget build, got about $700 in it right now. SLX brakes, used XT homemade 1x10 drivetrain, no name rims with Shimano hubs, midrange suntour fork, etc....
It never fails to put a slightly sadistic smile on my face when I pass people on their high end full sus carbon frame bikes.
But then I realize that they’re just out there riding also, having probably just as much fun as I am and I’m just being a judgemental asshole. Who am I to judge their 8k bike. I would ride it if I could afford it, lol.
@@nasonguycouldn't agree more
@@nasonguy Ha someone who actually made a fair point on the Internet for once. Refreshing. Also many people, myself included would ride every day but I have a business to run. I go to the gym 5 days a week in the early AM and ride on the weekends. I can afford expensive bikes but only because I work hard and have been lucky at other times. At some point though the team will be big enough where I can ride more during the week :) Cheers and happy riding mate.
@@phillipconnolly5020 Keep the rubber side down buddy!
Ironic that you rae the only snob here lol
I really appreciate that you took the time to measure the parts yourself and avoid doing mistakes this way. Really nice video.
Awesome video Jeff and all at WWC! I’ve been wondering about the differences between the tiers and this comparison knocked it out of the park
Would like to see the brake sets compared
We basically did that and more in this video in article - www.worldwidecyclery.com/blogs/worldwide-cyclery-blog/sram-vs-shimano-brake-buyers-guide-the-ultimate-comparison-video
so from my own personal experience, SLX 4 pistons are amazingly good, only thing XT gets you is a small weight reduction.
@@mrvwbug4423 That's what i take from it. If I'm not mistaken the calipers are the same throughout the range, the difference being the external finish.
One of the best review I've ever watched. Very detailed and well organized when it comes to comparing.
I run for my shimano xt for almost 10 years and still kicking on a trail!
Definitely the best comparison of different groupset and their prices with the best most transparent feedback 👍👍👍
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
On older models, XT and XTR allows instant shifter release, meaning the chain drops right after the shifter lever is pressed before returning, but Deore shifter lever has to return before chain drops. Something to note and I got the XT for this reason.
You guys rock! Thanks for all the great content. Cant wait to see you evaluate and breakdown SRAM’s Eagle lineup of XX1, XO1, GX, NX, SX, XX1 AXS, and XO1 AXS !
It's coming!
Can’t wait!!!!!!! I had no doubt you guys were!
@@aamgdp you sure about that?
@@WorldwideCyclery that's what she said.
Which Shimano drivetrain would you run on your bike?
Btw, we have a SRAM version of this same comparison: czcams.com/video/9JmU5r5T_WU/video.html
Worldwide Cyclery the one they put on Walmart bikes
Xt or slx
XT because of the number of clicks to change the gears and the clutch adjustment, also price for me 🤘🏻
Mix of Deore and SLX, May have to get that XT Shifter for double upshifts.
ride whatever comes on my bike then upgrade to xt when ive used stuff for a year or so
Greetings from Germany! You guys make quality content.
Now this is a detailed review. As always perfect explanation.
Great review! I've wanted to hear something like this for a long time! Thanks!!
Holy moly poo, seriously if you guys had a shop in England, i would spend my money with you even if i had to pay extra compared to others for the simple reason that, i like honest, well explained and fun. It's everything i haven't got anywhere near me. Ok, now i'm waiting for the next video😁
I'm loving my Shimano XT 2×12 groupset on my bikepacking mountain bike 👍
2x group sets get bashed a lot but not all of us want a 1x, not everyone wanted less gears for less complexity. It’s a preference thing
I use the Deore cassette Bc the steel is more durable and xt derailleur and cranks and xtr shifter
That’s a rad combo!
So you use the cheapest component that makes the biggest difference in performance? They all shift the same but feel is only 10% difference at most. But the cassette is the biggest tangible difference because it's so much heavier
I'd use SRAM NX cassette instead. Not only it is more durable but also compatible with Shimano HG. Missed opportunity here by Shimano
Ivo Roilev I have a micro spline hub thought and the range is 1 tooth less
@@roilev shimanos 5100 cassette is 11-51teeth and compatible with the old hg freehub. 11 speed though
I have an SLX drivetrain on a FS XC 29 Alloy Bike. It's perfect for my style and riding on dutch flat and smooth trails. Just ride for fun and keep myself healthy and fit. Great vids guys. Keeps me updated with al the cool stuff out there.
Great video. It is clearly well explained and made the comparison a lot easier than doing one by myself. Thank you so much.
Thanks for the breakdown fellas!
As a bike tech, yes you can see the quality differences when you tune the bike. However, SLX and Deore run so well, and if you could ride blindfolded, the only difference between these is how they sound shifting and the double trigger downshift. Absolutely love the quality of Deore, definitely worth it over Sram SX and even NX
The SLX and XT shifter also has 'instant release' - It drops the cog when you press, not when you release.
If is minor, but adds to a snappy feel.
Plus the weight difference
Awesome video! I have the deore set-up on my Kona... I've always thought it was the smoothest I've had, and wondered if it was even possible to have a better set-up!! The fact that you said they all shift like butter, makes me think about spending that money elsewhere on my bike now! Good stuff!!
Thank you a lot for this! I looking so lang for someone to show me this major differents...
XT has always been my go-to drive-train and preferably the complete bike fitted like this. However in my newest bike I am actually mixing and matching components and it’s been interesting. Front meg is Deore. Rear meg is XTR. Breaks levers and calibers are Deore but shifters XT because of their added functionality and crisp feel.
My honest opinion is that Shimano is over complicating things. Deore is fine for most, but bikesnobs like me ride XT (because it’s cooler and because we finally can afford it and a set of carbon wheels) XT is a hell of a nice group set. XTR are for pros where seconds matter. SLX to me is the odd one out, just like the 105. Almost but not really...
I think the SLX does an important job. It allows a beginner to choose to go low-cost on the first hand (Deore) or to spend a little more (SLX), just to show some extra commitment, reflecting the own positive expectations about the new hobby. On the other hand, same goes for most routined riders, not those few likely to go for XTR: Choice between XT (best with still reasonable price point) or budget-friendly, but more than decent (and not beginner model) SLX.
Having such options to choose makes customers happy, and happy customers buy stuff.
Yes I agree. The XT shifter in particular is worth it, it also has the rubber bits on the shifter grips
@@andreaslange8256 Shimano clearly must succeed greatly with their strategy, since they would not be doing it if it didn't pay off. How ever I am not sure consumers are benefitting. Huge production and developing costs lays hidden in having to produce so many different components and I think Deore and XT could both become more affordable IF the development of SLX was cut out. I do how ever find Shimano a democratic and fair company in the sense that they have allowed compatibility within the whole Deore Eco-system. That in itself is quite amazing that you can mix from all tiers of their product range and not have to commit exclusively to one group-set. Smart choice undoubtedly as it gives customers the option to upgrade and bike shops the possibly downgrade and flash a high-end rear meg to make the whole package seem greater value. That along with a set of entry level tires (which in my humble opinion should be banned as they are waste of money) and we're in business!
No I would definitely say deore is the odd man out. Best bang for your buck is slx groupset with an XT shifter. I wouldn't let deore touch anything SLX and above.
Shimano seems to refer to these as; Doere, SLX, "Deore XT", & XTR. Throwing the "Deore" in on the XT name feels like Shimano is actively trying to confuse us.
Thank God for WWC for helping demystify this stuff!
Dude! Don't get me started on confusing BS Shimano does. Have you looked at the part numbers and shifter / brake lever mounting terms and variants?! 😂🤦♂️
SLX used to be Deore LX. So it used to be worse.
In the 90 ties they were all „deore“ and there also was a DX
Great video, love the in depth comparison. You guys should do one comparing a the new brakes too!
Your vids are so thorough and much appreciated for that 👍
I run a SLX 11s set with the XT shifter ( 4 down/ 4 up) and loving it.
You get 4 gears with a lever push?
Old school equivalent of Deore LX, Deore DX, Deore XT and XTR
Great video, great production quality and very insightful
this is what im looking for. thank you 👍🏽 ride safe always
I would really like a video about what are the difference between sram and shimano groupsets !!
Oh it's coming!
Main difference is sram is overpriced and feels clunkier.
Shimano is better. That's the main difference LOL.
Yuuup the difference is Sram is overpriced and feels smoother**
It would be great to see a xt vx gx! thanks
I’ve had full XT on every ride including brakes. Now I’m digging the trickledown tech to save money in some places and everything works together. I think if I was in the market I would go for SLX with the XT shifter and cassette.
Amazing video. Very well put together and very VERY informative.
Thank you.
Really good review and desciptions! Thanks!
I don't race and just do casual day rides, naturally XTR is the choice :)
Thank you so much for this video
Thx for the realistic and honest overview! 👍🏻
Wonderfully insightful vid: thx!
I can say from experience the ‘feel’ between the groups is the biggest change between them outside of the weight. Crispy shifts are important for quick riding. The SLX and Deore can feel plastic-like and kind of hollow. Whereas the XT & XTR is actuated almost immediately with a firm click of the shifter. It can be related to manual transmissions between cars that are basic daily drivers, and sports cars or ones with a short throw shifter. In a sporty / aggressive situation, you’re gonna want those immediate, quick and crispy shifts!!
That immediate and smooth actuation of the derailleur can be achieved on those cheaper ones too, but it requires a lot more maintenance to keep it that smoothly because they're made to less tight tolerances... there's more drift, so you need to readjust things more often and perfect lubrication plays a way bigger role compared to the higher end ones.
Wow here was me thinking it was technical ability and fitness. Guess I’ll be the next Amaury or Nino when I get xtr. Unless you are like top 10 nationally or regionally and race seriously you are just doing it for bling factor. Even if you are you would get it handed to you by a world class rider. So let be honest you are just buying bling and maybe the real difference is a lack of ability, which is sweet but don’t pretend you need the performance. Your not that good you might save 1/100of a second .
100% agree with your shifter analogy. A lot of people seem to think theres no different between the different levels but I absolutely seem to notice the feel, sturdiness, responsiveness, and overall quality of the XT compared to something like Deore or SLX. Those are still great groupsets but for the small price increase to go to XT, its definitely worth it in my opinion.
Nice to see that SLX cranks are still lighter than XT, (this trend goes back at least 2-3 generations.) And it still looks like a mix of SLX/XT is still a nice balance between cost and features. (I'm trying SRAM on my new build, but still running a XT/SLX/Saint/Zee mix on my 26" bike and 105/XT/SLX/Zee on my road bike.)
Great video, lot of help. I'd love to see the differences between the brakes and hubs as well.
Best explanation I ever had about drivetrains
Hell, I like the fact that he's got the Bourbon bottle behind him for decoration... lol. Looks like it's been tapped and some is missing too. Great, honest review!
I like how when he's talking about weight he pulls out an LG gram
Super useful! Trying to work out which groupsets are better than which was a minffield for me!
Holy crap, very educational. Learn a lot today. Thank you!
Very interesting video. I just wonder about the durability of the components.
I love my 1x11 slx m7000 groupset. I pieced it together over a few weeks for about $260.
2x11 XT here. Shifts smooth as butter. Scored the entire groupset with brakes for $625.
Thanks for making these videos!
Yep, definitely best bike shop ever doesn’t just sell bikes but also give us all the updates/information we need to know about.
who else misses the way the old XTR derailleur looks, with that gold clutch lever
I am currently working on getting a SB130 with XT build.
Nice
After 3 months on a new Giant Trance X Pro 0, just stumbled across this video which has helped me learn 1: That my XT shifters have double downshifting (to a harder gear) using your thumb, but only single using your index finger (didn't realise there was double shifting but noticed that it only does that with your thumb). 2: XT shifters have a triple upshifting with your thumb. 3: There is a clutch on the XTR derailleur to make it easier to take the back wheel off. Thanks for the video. Super useful.
Great review! nice job on the amount of information.
I'd argue that almost all of the 'feel' comes from the shifter.
True, but I was surprised when I upgraded chains and felt a noticable difference. Biggest difference I ever felt in a single upgrade was going from 18t to 54t star ratchet on my 350 hubs.
@@topspot4834 new chains always feel like you have a brand new drivetrain in my experience. I’ve been spoiled my near instantaneous engagement. Hopping on a regular hub recently highlighted that to me.
@@biznatcho7 Can you elaborate on that please? What is a regular hub? And what did you switch from if you don't mind me asking? I'm an MTB newbie so I'm trying to understand all this better.
@@imranvp I didn't switch but I did ride a buddy's Ibis Logo hubs recently. Those are 36T hubs, so 10* of rotation between teeth (360* / 36T = 10*). That free rotation between teeth means that you will feel the pedals/cranks spin freely before the pawls engage and drive the rear wheel to get you going. There will also be a noticeable clunk. This will only be noticeable when starting from a standstill, pedaling again after slow speed coasting, ratcheting cranks through slow technical sections, etc. None of this is a big deal when you're first starting out (or ever for some people) but it can be noticeable if you're used to something with higher engagement (more teeth/less free rotation). In my case, I have i9 Hydras (0.5* or whatever) and Onyx Classics (0* due to sprag clutch instead of ratchet-pawl). Hope that helps.
Great comparison video. You guys rock. But, you forgot to mention the index finger shifting(pull or push for harder gear) My XT has it, but I’m not sure if SLX and Deore do. It’s something I learned after 4 months of ownership and it’s great!
Dual release. It’s only for XT and XTR.
2-way release is a feature of SLX, too. 👍🏼
I’ve got a xt shifter derailed slx cassett and cranks works amazingly
This explained things so well for s dummy like myself. Thanks guys.
SLX is the sweet spot for me. Great quality for a cheap price.
Deore cassette Ftw Bc it’s steel and stronger. Then again I have an emtb so I’m not counting grams by any means..
perfect just what I was after
could u do one on for or rockshox levels please
Thx WC,I have been always confused about the different Shimano drivetrains..
Great video! Cheers from Portugal!
Great information! One thing not mentioned in this video is the durability of each groupset. Are they also more durable as you move up to better groupsets? and if so can that help to justify the price increases if you don't need to replace parts as frequently?
Yes!! But the opposite is true. Xtr is for racing and less durable than xt.
@@paulwhat322 that was the GOLD Answer i was waiting for!! Thank you so much! You made me finally get the point for a decision. So I will stay on XT rather than changing to XTR for less weight because as you mentioned XT is the more durable one ! ❤️
@@Fitnesstrainingpersonaltv You are welcome!👍😁. I mean XTR is beautiful stuff and often the focus of my fantasy lol🤣, but with what I've seen and heard it's all about weight saving which a few grams make a difference in a professional race, but seems that in normal use xt is slightly more robust and durable. The important thing is to get out there and ride. Whatever you are on😉👍👍 Enjoy and good luck!
The longest life has an deore and SLX groupset. XT and XTR are lighter but are made of softer materials. So you have to replace the higher sets (cassette, chain, chainring) more often than on the deore and SLX groupsets.
Have a look on here czcams.com/video/Xz3RI4sgvQU/video.html
XTR cassette needs to get fixed by this guy to not remove the whole expensive cassette
WWC tells me that shipping may be slower due to covid. I placed an order on friday and got it on Saturday (the next day... with free shipping)
Oohhh yeah baby 👊👊💩
Excellent video for a newbie like myself who's been researching his next "value"bike and getting lost in the component woods...
XT for life...thanks for putting this together!
Hope don’t make carbon cranks either. hmm new hope ally cranks and xtr 12spd on my bike would look nice.
8:17 Lg Gram to talk about the weights eh?
So happy someone noticed this 😂
Excelente video. Muy buenos detalles y muy clara la explicación. Me quedó clarísima la diferencia. THank you very much
Just bought Xt groupset this weekend!
Looking at the Stand box in the background and now I am hungry :/ GIMMIE ONE OF THOSE BURGERS
With xt you can actually drop 3 gears if you use both thumb and index shifter.2 thumb push and 1 index pull on its way back.😉👍
Could you record a video how to do that? Would be useful for many people
Fantastic review!
Awesome video appreciate all the great info 👍 😀
2:43 "The really high-end stuff vs the slightly less expensive stuff" Remember the "slightly less" expensive stuff is on $300 vs $1350 for XTR...I mere factor of 4.5. So there you have it, slightly less = 1/4.5. Ironically, I spend a ton of money on XTR components that I wore out from riding so hard when I was a young strong rider...but I didn't need it. Now I am old, slow, bitter with money I can't live up to that level of gear.
Do all of the cassettes require microspline? Will the 12 speed cassette fit an 11 speed freebody hub on any of these or do they all require a specific freebody?
All require microspline
Deore M4100(10s 11-46)/M5100(11s 11-51) are also available and for standard freehub. Or M6100 and Sunrace/SRAM 12s cassette If you don’t want to change freehub. Shimano released a Microspline freehub with the Deore 12 speed. FH-MT410/FH-MT410-B for about $/£30 and uses cartridge bearings. I had my wheel rebuilt using one of these until I buy a new wheel set
You can use SRAM NX cassette, it works with retro shimano (unlike shimano).
You can get a 12 speed sunrace cassette that will work
You Always do great reviews thanks,,
👊🏻👊🏻
WOW stopped by for a quick overview, and leaving with a Dr degree in drivetrains :) Thank you. Thinking about moving off my old setup to a new 12 gear setup. Maybe I need a new hub/rim for this....
Slx cassette, cranks and derailleur with an xt shifter, don’t want to spend lots on a derailleur as that can easily be broken and i don’t want to spend lots on a cassette as that will wear out and I’m not bothered about the wait or the cranks, they’re just cranks. But I do like the double shift on the xt. In my opinion this is the better value option if your doing a bike build, you can then spend more money on other stuff like suspension which will give you more of a benefit on the trail.
Hey nice thoughts. Still building my bike here. I will try your build
Currently riding this set up and its great!
I use SLX groupset with XT shifter.
Also I have drilled the cap thats covering the clutch, so I can access the bolt underneath, so I can adjust it quickly. Of course I covered the hole by tapping threads in the plastic and I 3d printed a screw which fits perfectly. I also added an O-ring to make sure no water is going inside the clutch.
I really hate the cycling industry, since they can never justify their prices for what you get....
Great Video.
Thanks from 🇮🇹
Awesome explanation! Congrats!!
I know they make great fishing products, are they new to the bike industry???
No they have been making bike stuff for 50 years
I didn't even know they made fishing products until last month.
honestly, not much people will notice/need xtr stuff. slx cassete xt shifter and derailer and slx cranks maybe eaven deore doesnt matter as much
I'd say that an XTR shifter is worth it, with an XT derailleur, an Deore casette, and a Deore crankset would be the best performance/lifespan ratio.
The selection of aftermarket carbon cranks is a lot better for the Shimano BB standards vs SRAM Dub, just sayin ;)
Great comparison!
That Jack Black scene had me cracking up. Gotta wonder how many takes it took to perfect it and how much the crew was laughing as they shot the scene!
Thanks for the great review comparing and contrasting the group sets. Just got a new bike that has the SLX and will see how it performs. Willing to upgrade to XT or XTR in the future.....
My 2006 Sram X0 downshifts 3 gears at a time
Yeah I don't get the limited shifts and then it's only 2? I could swear my old 90's XTR reversed 9 speed could do 3 as well. I just want that thing back.
That’s going down the gears, I think he said it the wrong way round, you can do lots of shifts down, from the little one to the bigger ones, but can do only on on up on SRAM stuff, 1-12
You can go down 3, and up 2.
Eagle can go down 5 and up 1.
Eagle Grip shift can go 11 up and 11 down
Meanwhile i'm using shimano's alivio lmao
Just ordered the 2021 ML Trek Fuel EX 8 XT in Rage Red to Dnister Black Fade colour. Can’t wait to receive & send it! Came here to learn about what’s on my new bike 😏
Great stuff! Hoping to get an XT one day
I’m confused, I thought Deore was the name of their drivetrains like “Deore xt m8100”
Faz5HD imagine the XT as a Deore Pro, no idea why they still keep Deore in the XT brand name
Wtf, my deore shifter actually makes up to 3 downshifts at a time 🤣
Gripshift
I get 2 out of an alivio lol i was going to change the shifter to match the slx derailleur but really haven't felt the need to it works thats all that matters
Those are up shifts you are talking about, when you're about to go up a hill. He's talking about down shift, right after an uphill and now you'll be going down hill and need to down shift to pick up speed quickly. You are confusing the up shift/down shift brother.
Thanks! A Great review
amazing good analysis of groupset 👍👍👍👍👍