Loved PinBot as a kid. It had the bonus feature of being good for my health. Would spend my pocket money on one more credit rather than a bus ticket and have to walk the 8 miles home. Sure, the ass kicking my mother would give when she found out was hazardous, but still worth it.
My electronics skills are, frankly, minimal, but the explanation of the need to add fuses to the power supply was so clear that I was easily able to follow it. Kudos!
Wow, an enterprising young man could design a neat little PCB to go between the connectors and implement the correct fuse holders. It’d look good mounted on the wall there!
Joe, 1st.. where are you located ? 2nd.... Man I actually understood what you were Teaching. I'm positive that has the first time I understood ANYTHING the first time( my wife will vouch for that) Bravo sir.
We're in Rock Hill, SC which is just below Charlotte, NC. The whole point of our videos is to show you that if I CAN DO IT, you can do it! Thanks for watching Jason, see you on the next video!
I play this game all the time at one of my local places. It's fascinating to learn how the flashers on the playfield are also linked to the topper's flashers. Awesome troubleshooting.
Ron, the schematic for the top flashers looks like a preheat circuit for the bulbs so they aren't thermal shocked each time they fire. 7 watt resistor is dropping a bunch of heat too.
Regarding pinballs from this generation, only system 11 and 11A were impacted by this flaw with the missing fuses on the bridge rectifier line. This was fixed after "Fire !" pinball (no pun intended :=)) which was the last 11A machine in august 1987. Once system 11B has been launched in october 1987, starting with "big guns", the fuses were added in the backbox on the inner right side.
@@Newberntrains But if you follow the idea that a fuse is there to blow if a fault develops and stop a fire, then why take the chance? Those boards would not have been cheap, especially when fully populated.
@@Newberntrains I guess it's simply a design flaw and not an intentional measure to reduce cost. They probably assumed that in case a short would occur in one of the bridge rectifier the fuse close to the main transformer would have blown and protect the board. But they couldn't forecast that in certain cases, the transformer fuse wouldn't blow immediately allowing a sudden rise in temperature leading to a wire meltdown and sometimes starting a fire. I guess the fire problem was not so frequent as they carried that design flaw from system 3 up to system 11-11A and only deemed necessary to address the issue starting with system 11B in 1987. Just my asumption though... :=))
@ 1:32 The lights on top are supposed to flash (3X) with the music, ain't they ? @ 18:45 I believe the material is called lexan. @28:03 THERE WE GO !!! Looks like minimal light replacment ahead. The reason my friends and I punished this game back in the day is because they took out Space Shuttle and brought in Pinbot.
it could be worse you could have to replace the transformer as it can be burned if the wires dont burn first so it is important to have fuses. sometimes people bypass fuses either by jumpering the fuse or putting in a higher rated fuse or even putting foil on the fuses. that can lead to fire or damage to the wiring
I’m sorry if I missed it in the video, but what gauge wire was used for the blue wire replacement. I am thinking it’s 18 AWG based on all the documentation I’ve seen. Great video!
I recall you having one a little while back where the back box was black inside after a fire. Also, I think I recall you mentioning back then about one catching fire on you in the shop?!? Maybe I am not remembering right lol
Yes one burnt up while I was filming! The video of that one was here: czcams.com/video/Yjzzwc_PIm0/video.html If was when we were fixing another Pinbot of all things, ha!
Great video !!!! Thank you for doing this one ! I will need to do the fuse mod on my F-14, and Fire ! Is automotive wire suitable for replacing the melted wires ? Or what wire would you recommend ?
Any particular reason not to also up the wire size on the rectifier circuits as well? Seems like if the wire is getting hot it could be they undersized the wire for the load. The slow blow fuses will help but could still have some chance to melt a little. The circuit on the flasher's seems like a voltage divider actually. Only reason why I know about that one is I needed something that put out 25mv for an oxygen analyzer I was building. Didn't have a power supply I could set so I used a AA battery with a pair of resistors to cut the voltage output to the circuit while waiting for the sensor to come in. Interesting that they would do that though. I am guessing the bulb they used needs a specific voltage they didn't want to supply directly and just used a voltage they already had available. I am guessing that there are now cheap bulbs that use the regular input voltage available and would allow the removal of the divider circuit.
those bulbs look like 1178 i have those but need the 1178a (amber) for the front side marker lamps my 68 mustang cannot find them ANYWHERE and car show/swap meets have been notta this year
I had a 67 before the corner marker lights. Have you tried: www.bulbtown.com/1178A_Amber_Miniature_Bulb_Ba15d_Base_p/1178a.htm ? They claim to have 1178 in stock.
JOE CLASSIC, Fuse F2 is Rated 2.5Amps so why are you putting in an 8 amp fuse before the bridge rectifier? Fuse F8 is Rated 8 amps it says on the schematic. I don't understand why F2 and F8 fuses aren't blowing when the bridge rectifiers are shorted because they are in series but I guess the current only flows BEFORE the short circuit not after the short circuit. Both Fuses you added are rated differently but you installed both at 8 amps which I think is incorrectly since the current are different.
No. That is not a mistake. For example, I grabbed this from PINWIKI.COM: "A design flaw carried over from the earlier systems was the lack of fuses on the two bridge rectifiers used for the solenoid and controlled lamp power. In theory, if either of these bridges short, the main power fuse in the game should blow, but that's not always the case. If the primary power fuse fails to blow, the wiring from the transformer to the bridge becomes the fuse. The end result is not pretty! On games before Big Guns, interrupt one of the AC input lines and install a fuse holder _with an 8 amp fuse installed"._ So I tend to think that if pinwiki recommends 8-amp fuses, then that's what you should install. The same thing was recommended on the pinside.com forums, creditdotpinball.com, and several other sites. As long as the fuse blows before something catches on fire, that's the important thing.
@@waynegram8907 The Pin*Bot machine uses the System 11A board. Williams fixed this flaw in the System 11B board... _with an 8-amp fuse._ In other words, you're modding the 11A board to have an 8-amp fuse _before_ the rectifier (like the System 11B board), instead of a 2.5 amp fuse _after_ the rectifier. If you looked at the schematics for a System 11B board, the 8-amp fuse would be shown on the schematic.
@@SpearM3064 That totally doesn't make sense to me to have a 8 amp fuse BEFORE the rectifier and have a 2.5 amp fuse AFTER the rectifier. There is no way that the rectifier is consuming and drawing 8 amps - 2.5amps = 5.5 amps. I just don't believe that the rectifier can be consuming 5.5 amps of current.
@@waynegram8907 The 2.5 amp fuse is obviously not performing its intended task, since it's _supposed_ to blow if anything goes wrong with the rectifiers, but frequently doesn't. Look, all I know is that you're supposed to install 8-amp fuses in the mod, because that's what Williams and Data East did. Since they _built_ the machines in the first place, I'm sure they know what they're doing. Ask the people over at pinwiki; they might have a better answer than I do.
Awesome as usual. I love the old tech! If I had the money, I would love to refurbish one of these old machines. Whatever happened with those four coloured blocks under the play field? Or is that in the next video where you said you’re working on the play field?
There is this weird thing on youtube, where I'm working on incredibly complex stuff, and all people want to talk about is the really easy stuff that they think they could do. If I knew the bulbs were bugging everybody so much I never would have replaced them.
@@LyonsArcade hey i watch all the stuff, i never know when i see something that i have not seen yet every aspect is interesting. and it helps to hear your opinion about some repair methods.
You might think that but it would be overkill... if one side was red with red rings and one side was blue with blue rings it wouldn't really have any contrast, red with white rings and blue with white rings looks great!
Do you mostly buy broken machines to fix and resell? What percentage are brought in by people to have fixed? Just curious. Scary to see those melted wires...
Loved PinBot as a kid. It had the bonus feature of being good for my health. Would spend my pocket money on one more credit rather than a bus ticket and have to walk the 8 miles home. Sure, the ass kicking my mother would give when she found out was hazardous, but still worth it.
That's awesome, priceless memories...
My pinbot has been sitting in the basement folded up for 12 years.
I’m gonna pull it out and play with it.
Thanks
Yeah you gotta get that thing out and working! Hope the batteries didn't screw anything up....
To cool a machine to be neglected...Good luck with it.
Best of luck !...i'm sure I speak for everyone when I say "let us know how you get on "...cheers.
My electronics skills are, frankly, minimal, but the explanation of the need to add fuses to the power supply was so clear that I was easily able to follow it. Kudos!
Glad it helped William!
Nice looking " Larson Scanner "...cheers.
They probably should have paid royalties for that one :)
Pinbot is my favorite pinball machine of all time.
It's definitely up there!
Wow, an enterprising young man could design a neat little PCB to go between the connectors and implement the correct fuse holders. It’d look good mounted on the wall there!
You’d think somebody would have done it by now... maybe the connector is different on each game or something.
Joe, 1st.. where are you located ?
2nd.... Man I actually understood what you were Teaching. I'm positive that has the first time I understood ANYTHING the first time( my wife will vouch for that)
Bravo sir.
We're in Rock Hill, SC which is just below Charlotte, NC. The whole point of our videos is to show you that if I CAN DO IT, you can do it! Thanks for watching Jason, see you on the next video!
I play this game all the time at one of my local places. It's fascinating to learn how the flashers on the playfield are also linked to the topper's flashers. Awesome troubleshooting.
We're getting there, more video tomorrow....
Awesome machine! Thanks for detailing the upgrade to the bridges. Have a great day. -David
Hey Ron, I have a rapid fire too. The thing is a blast.
Hopefully you do an episode on it.
Thanks for all you do. Keep it up!
We did a whole bunch of them a year or so ago on the rapid fire it’s definitely a fun one!
Love the sounds it makes. Really interesting
It's a pretty masterful game, they did a great job.
Looking good! That game sounds great too!
They did a great job on the sound on pretty much every Williams game!
Love it! Thanks man! 👍👍👍
Thanks Gnomesteader we appreciate you watching!
Favorite top 5 pinball games when I was young.
It's one of the greats!
@@LyonsArcade I want to buy...live in Canada, must research. I am ok to repair.
Man, Pin-Bot is RAD
Sadly I've never seen one in the wild. But if I did, it would get my quarter!
It's definitely worth the experience :)
I still have my pinbot. It was the first machine I bought in 93. I got it for $600 in middle California Solano vending.
Very cool man, that's a great deal! Times sure have changed, huh?
@@LyonsArcade Here's my current line up except I added a 1951 coke machine 2 weeks after I made this video. czcams.com/video/CemH29b7Z2M/video.html
Ron, the schematic for the top flashers looks like a preheat circuit for the bulbs so they aren't thermal shocked each time they fire. 7 watt resistor is dropping a bunch of heat too.
thanks atschimer, that makes sense!
Thanks for the show. Looking forward to the next video.
Thanks Joseph, we appreciate you hanging out with us!
Great mod on that brige rectifires,always to be on safe side... 👍
Especially if it already burnt up once!
Regarding pinballs from this generation, only system 11 and 11A were impacted by this flaw with the missing fuses on the bridge rectifier line. This was fixed after "Fire !" pinball (no pun intended :=)) which was the last 11A machine in august 1987. Once system 11B has been launched in october 1987, starting with "big guns", the fuses were added in the backbox on the inner right side.
Ok
Really question: Did an engineer miss the fuse oversight or was the fuse holder removed to save money?
@@gorillaau i wonder if the failure rate of the bridges were so minimal they didn't feel the need to fuse
@@Newberntrains But if you follow the idea that a fuse is there to blow if a fault develops and stop a fire, then why take the chance? Those boards would not have been cheap, especially when fully populated.
@@Newberntrains I guess it's simply a design flaw and not an intentional measure to reduce cost. They probably assumed that in case a short would occur in one of the bridge rectifier the fuse close to the main transformer would have blown and protect the board. But they couldn't forecast that in certain cases, the transformer fuse wouldn't blow immediately allowing a sudden rise in temperature leading to a wire meltdown and sometimes starting a fire.
I guess the fire problem was not so frequent as they carried that design flaw from system 3 up to system 11-11A and only deemed necessary to address the issue starting with system 11B in 1987. Just my asumption though... :=))
Here comes ten extra thumbs. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Why thank you!
Love this machine. Nice work!
Thanks Michael, we appreciate you watching!
Yep A C select is the relay. From what I have seen in my games A is solenoids and C is flashers. 2 functions for 1 transistor.
That's a pretty clever way for them to do it...
@ 1:32
The lights on top are supposed to flash (3X) with the music, ain't they ?
@ 18:45
I believe the material is called lexan.
@28:03
THERE WE GO !!!
Looks like minimal light replacment ahead.
The reason my friends and I punished this game back
in the day is because they took out Space Shuttle and
brought in Pinbot.
Boy you almost caught something that was wrong, try harder next time!
"It probably won't burn your house down" reassuring :) I think Donnie needs you at the ..... erm...... new store :) rake care out there.
Hey probably is pretty good!
@@LyonsArcade :) I've owned about 30 pinball machines myself and you are 'probably' correct :)
Man, lookin at how that works thats my favorite so far
It's pretty cool!
Wish I had gotten a chance to play this. It looks awesome :)
it's pretty awesome :)
I wanna play this so bad lol looks like a very fun fast game too
It's pretty cool :)
That's one nice machine though! Thank you gentlemen.
Thanks Spider we appreciate you hanging out with us as always!
Wow.....love it ...great machine.....cheers
Thanks Chris, we appreciate you hanging out with us!
it could be worse you could have to replace the transformer as it can be burned if the wires dont burn first so it is important to have fuses.
sometimes people bypass fuses either by jumpering the fuse or putting in a higher rated fuse or even putting foil on the fuses. that can lead to fire or damage to the wiring
I’m sorry if I missed it in the video, but what gauge wire was used for the blue wire replacement. I am thinking it’s 18 AWG based on all the documentation I’ve seen. Great video!
I have never understood how bumpers work. Love electric mechanical stuff
Glad you enjoyed it!
Top Job, great video !
I recall you having one a little while back where the back box was black inside after a fire.
Also, I think I recall you mentioning back then about one catching fire on you in the shop?!? Maybe I am not remembering right lol
Yes one burnt up while I was filming! The video of that one was here: czcams.com/video/Yjzzwc_PIm0/video.html If was when we were fixing another Pinbot of all things, ha!
"Life is not all arcade and pinball machines"... this is the first time you've lied to me..
It's the first time THAT YOU KNOW OF that I've lied to you. Trust no one.
i see you to my chiledhood pinball i miss you
He's been waiting for you to come back!
I see you
It reminds me of the voice in Sinistar!
I have a riverboat gambler I recently picked up. It is a later system 11C and I think had 1 bridge rectifier so does it have the same problem or no?
Riverboat Gambler is completely fused and has no issues, they had fixed the design by then. That one is 1990 they fixed it way back in 1987....
Great video !!!! Thank you for doing this one ! I will need to do the fuse mod on my F-14, and Fire ! Is automotive wire suitable for replacing the melted wires ? Or what wire would you recommend ?
Yes that would work fine, the Fire! probably already had it done from the factory though.
Any particular reason not to also up the wire size on the rectifier circuits as well? Seems like if the wire is getting hot it could be they undersized the wire for the load. The slow blow fuses will help but could still have some chance to melt a little.
The circuit on the flasher's seems like a voltage divider actually. Only reason why I know about that one is I needed something that put out 25mv for an oxygen analyzer I was building. Didn't have a power supply I could set so I used a AA battery with a pair of resistors to cut the voltage output to the circuit while waiting for the sensor to come in. Interesting that they would do that though. I am guessing the bulb they used needs a specific voltage they didn't want to supply directly and just used a voltage they already had available. I am guessing that there are now cheap bulbs that use the regular input voltage available and would allow the removal of the divider circuit.
I left it like that so all you guys smarter than me would have something to feel smug about. Think of how much better if a job you would have done!
@@LyonsArcade LOL, not smarter than you. Just inquisitive. Hopefully one day I will have a chance to rebuild a pinball machine.
those bulbs look like 1178 i have those but need the 1178a (amber) for the front side marker lamps my 68 mustang cannot find them ANYWHERE and car show/swap meets have been notta this year
I had a 67 before the corner marker lights. Have you tried: www.bulbtown.com/1178A_Amber_Miniature_Bulb_Ba15d_Base_p/1178a.htm ? They claim to have 1178 in stock.
That's wild, I didn't know they were so hard to find!
JOE CLASSIC, Fuse F2 is Rated 2.5Amps so why are you putting in an 8 amp fuse before the bridge rectifier? Fuse F8 is Rated 8 amps it says on the schematic. I don't understand why F2 and F8 fuses aren't blowing when the bridge rectifiers are shorted because they are in series but I guess the current only flows BEFORE the short circuit not after the short circuit. Both Fuses you added are rated differently but you installed both at 8 amps which I think is incorrectly since the current are different.
No. That is not a mistake. For example, I grabbed this from PINWIKI.COM:
"A design flaw carried over from the earlier systems was the lack of fuses on the two bridge rectifiers used for the solenoid and controlled lamp power. In theory, if either of these bridges short, the main power fuse in the game should blow, but that's not always the case. If the primary power fuse fails to blow, the wiring from the transformer to the bridge becomes the fuse. The end result is not pretty!
On games before Big Guns, interrupt one of the AC input lines and install a fuse holder _with an 8 amp fuse installed"._
So I tend to think that if pinwiki recommends 8-amp fuses, then that's what you should install. The same thing was recommended on the pinside.com forums, creditdotpinball.com, and several other sites. As long as the fuse blows before something catches on fire, that's the important thing.
@@SpearM3064 But the schematic says 2.5amps for the Fuse F2 it doesn't say 8amps on the schematic. Unless this is a wrong misprint on the schematic.
@@waynegram8907 The Pin*Bot machine uses the System 11A board. Williams fixed this flaw in the System 11B board... _with an 8-amp fuse._ In other words, you're modding the 11A board to have an 8-amp fuse _before_ the rectifier (like the System 11B board), instead of a 2.5 amp fuse _after_ the rectifier. If you looked at the schematics for a System 11B board, the 8-amp fuse would be shown on the schematic.
@@SpearM3064 That totally doesn't make sense to me to have a 8 amp fuse BEFORE the rectifier and have a 2.5 amp fuse AFTER the rectifier. There is no way that the rectifier is consuming and drawing 8 amps - 2.5amps = 5.5 amps. I just don't believe that the rectifier can be consuming 5.5 amps of current.
@@waynegram8907 The 2.5 amp fuse is obviously not performing its intended task, since it's _supposed_ to blow if anything goes wrong with the rectifiers, but frequently doesn't. Look, all I know is that you're supposed to install 8-amp fuses in the mod, because that's what Williams and Data East did. Since they _built_ the machines in the first place, I'm sure they know what they're doing. Ask the people over at pinwiki; they might have a better answer than I do.
Where can i buy those fuse holders for the two 8A SB's
You can get them at www.GreatPlainsElectronics.com he has all kinds of stuff you'll like for pinball machines.
Awesome as usual. I love the old tech! If I had the money, I would love to refurbish one of these old machines.
Whatever happened with those four coloured blocks under the play field? Or is that in the next video where you said you’re working on the play field?
There are more videos notice it also doesn’t have glass on it so I still have to do that too.
What Size/rating of fuse did you use? I about to get one of these System 11 machines.
I am waiting for those broken lights to be fixed on the playfield, they are really bugging me ;)
There is this weird thing on youtube, where I'm working on incredibly complex stuff, and all people want to talk about is the really easy stuff that they think they could do. If I knew the bulbs were bugging everybody so much I never would have replaced them.
@@LyonsArcade hey i watch all the stuff, i never know when i see something that i have not seen yet
every aspect is interesting.
and it helps to hear your opinion about some repair methods.
If I remember correctly.
One side is blue and the other side is red.
Wouldn't you replace the rubbers following the color scheme?
You might think that but it would be overkill... if one side was red with red rings and one side was blue with blue rings it wouldn't really have any contrast, red with white rings and blue with white rings looks great!
Yeah..
That makes sense.
Ron, can I send you my boss for repair? He is kaput.
Does he need any mods????
@@LyonsArcade I am afraid he needs to be completely replaced.
Do you mostly buy broken machines to fix and resell? What percentage are brought in by people to have fixed? Just curious. Scary to see those melted wires...
Yes most of the ones we buy are broken, we fix about a dozen of our own for every one we fix for other people.
@@LyonsArcade 👍 Sounds like a great business. Still enjoying it?
It’s pretty fun has its ups and downs
This was a con-fuse-ing video.
Yes it was!
They (Williams) finally added fuses for the bridges on system 11C
It's an interesting oversight, I wonder if they just didn't think about it or if they actively chose not to add the fuses before then...
Nope they started adding the fuses with system 11B when "big guns" machine was released in october 1987 :=)