MIchael Wargo on how to properly land a Heavy RC Aircraft and Heavy RC Turbine Jet - Landing part 3
Vložit
- čas přidán 18. 06. 2022
- Precision Aerobatics and Hobbyking Team pilot, MIchael Wargo Discusses how to properly land a Heavy RC Aircraft and Heavy RC Turbine Jet Landing part 3.
How to land a turbine JEt
• MIchael Wargo on how t...
Landing tips
• Michael Wargo: Tips,...
#wargo,#landing, #instruction, #aerobatics, #rcairplane, #michaelwargo, #turbine,#rcjet - Sport
I like the gates idea, and flying a box pattern as do full scale. I even add flaps as was done when i flew full scale . It all helps keep a controled approach.
This is great info. I really appreciate how you provide examples of both how to do it correctly as well as how it happens incorrectly. Really well done. Thanks.
At our full-sized gliding club, we were taught to do proper downwind, base and final legs on every landing. You don't get to go around in a glider, so you'd better get it right haha! Admittedly you have a lot of energy change to play with, going from full efficiency clean airframe to using massively powerful airbrakes and/or flaps. Anyway, I guess that's much the same as Michelle's gates to meet, and is the same for people flying circuits when learning to fly full-sized power. I see lots of people not doing that disciplined approach to getting landing right, and when I help them at our local model field by explaining about the downwind etc legs, you can just see their landings improve massively!
Thankyou Michael. This is a great lesson. Really excellent and helpful advice. I always look out for your videos
Thank so much for the enlughtenment my friend
Thanks Michelle
Well done, great tips!
Excellent tips. Thanks very much for making this video.
Fantastic video! I fly warbirds with high wing loading, and I realize now that I've been coming in too high. At high altitude, I transfer that potential energy to unwanted speed. I'll try long and low next time. Thanks!
IMHO, Hi Rates should feel like low rates around 20% stick deflections... and using expo the throws should be increased beyond that.
Thank you Sir!
I laugh every time I hear “tip stall”.
Have you or can you do a video on when to use flaps?
Thanks
If you are on the verge of tip stalling the last thing you want to do is put in a bucket of aileron, you need increase the airspeed and rudder
Well, with a turbine, adding more speed will not do you any good in the moment because it takes a second or two to add it, and the reason you need the aileron is for that millisecond where the wing might begin to tip, you need to have the ability to roll the opposite way as a first response. If you have a warbird, or some thing, the reason it is tip, stalling is because of a lack of air speed. So, of course, if adding air speed is an option, you should add it.
awesome video. when you say high rates are you talking about elevator and flaps or elevator flaps and ailerons?
If you are at a slow speed and low altitude and the plane becomes unstable, you need throttle not "all you can get" control deflection. Granted situations vary, but high rates will not stabilize the plane, throttle will. Hopefully
YEs Throttle would really be helpful. YOU do need more deflection for 2 reasons. One is low rates at low speed gets a fraction of what you normally get, having extra is never harmful, and not having enough can be deadly. But most of all, if flying a jet, throttle only helps a second or so after you apply it making it almost irrelevant. Plus if you hit a lot of throttle, then say bye bye to landing, because you are going to gain so much speed, you will have to abort. IF you go on, then off the throttle, You will probably crash without a bit of luck. IF you are about to land, then add throttle and try to land, it is just the worst idea ever. If a prop plane, yes you need throttle. But still think high rates is a good idea. Look, it is my opinion. You can have yours and I respect it.
@@MichaelWargo my reference was to non-turbine planes. I have no turbine experience so I will defer to your expertise.
Having extra throws will never hurt you.
However using extra throws when you are at low air speed or unstable can hurt
you. A plane below it's take off speed at take off loses it's power, the goal is to remain level, and glide with minimum inputs. Certainly we can find exceptions and scenarios where this might not apply. We also never defined the quantity of throw in any of these situations.
Should you land on high rates with all jets including the boomerang?
Or just have more throw????
YEs you should land on high rates. Just make certain you are using enough expo to keep it smooth and not twitchy. Needs to feel similar to low rates. Remember, low rates offer significantly less control at slow speeds.
Thx Michael for the educational video, much appreciated. Small question: which version of the Rebel were you using in this video ?
I am very thankful for that helpful instructions...., especially because I have 2 "too heavy" Tomcats. I have some more questions to you as professional:
You say that you set nose up in the downwind area already. Then, in the curve, of course you reduce high that can result in increasing airspeed, but in the curve, the plane can also get slower. So my first question is: Isn't it riskful to reduce the speed to lowest stable flyspeed in the downwind way? Is the last 180°curve at low speed not an additional risk that a "not real delta shaped" plane like the F-14 will suddenly tip stall and fall out of the sky? (I saw a video of even a viperjet that did it, and I lost a P-51 with too heavy 3 cylinder kolm engine (24kg at 2.60m wingspan) even without a curve, it was already in the final approach. It didnt get any unstable warning before, it suddenly turned like full ailerons without any warning before...
That why I always have respect of too slow approaches...
So does a heavy bird stall more easy in the curve than in straight approach? What is your experience?
Second question is: if I want to bring the nose up, but the plane is too fast, so it climbs, what is best way to handle that? just let it climb, keep the angle of attack, wait until it is slow enough to sink , let it come down and if its low enough, give power again to stop sinking? ... or is there a better way to handle that situation?
Next question is: " plane is sinking, maybe fast, basically I stop this sinking with power, not with the elevator, correct? But in your video, you spoke about high rates to rescue critical situations. When do you stop sinking with power and when do you use elevator, ot is in real both required?
And the last question (that costed me some gears already) is: in final approach, on the runway already, when you want to stop sinking or just flair out the plane with elevator (power already idle) , it might happen that the plane has first low reaction on the elevator, but because expo and high rates, it suddenly climbs up with nose up... What is best way to rescue that? add power and keep nose up (not enough time for bigger turbines) ? or try to bring down the nose with elevator down (in the hopening that you dont lose all speed 3 m high) ? From my experience, the last one doesnt work... What is your advice to rescue that situation....or just take telephone in that case and order glue and parts :)
OK... First, I don't think I said pull nose up on downwind. I want you to stay low and fly at a reduced speed. With an f-14 for one, fly at good controllable and not risky speed. IT is just important the last turn is not too fast. This is where or possibly previous turn to start powering in and bringing nose up using elevator for angle of attack. All depends on plane. just want steady not too fast but low Second answer is it is tricky with jets because combination of power and elevator depending on airframe. MOdest elevator will climb, a lot will pull nose up and reduce airspeed. BUt it is tough and takes practice. No real answer. YEs. I normally use power, but turbines don't work that way. Adding power is a crash waiting to happen. As to the last., Avoid too much elevator with a sudden rise. It is death very often. You need to set the expo properly. Most of the questions you have are skill and experience oriented. Technique is important, but you still need to know your aircraft.
@@MichaelWargo Thanks a lot very much and you are right, you did not say that, sorry, this was from another video…
Do they make the yellow plane you got to using on the EDF jet? I’m just wonder I know that’s turbine.
I don’t know how you find an EDF that large. Jet is close to Ten feet Long. It has a 260 size motor.
@@MichaelWargo do you know where I can get the turbine one that’s a beautiful jet
As a coincidence, I was going to put that one up for sale. If you are interested, let me know.
Thanks for the nice video. Aren't you concerned that high rate especially on pitch will make it more likely that the pilot will stall the plane a few feet of the ground? The save you showed with a Rafale worked because these deltas don't tip stall. It appears that a better remedy to heavy planes falling due to low speed is adding more power, not up elevator...
Although there is always a chance of overcontrolling, I assumed the expo is correct on high rates. But, it can happen anywhere in the flight. As for adding power, it is literally not an option with a turbines 2 second lag, and even tough with edf. Also, a large percentage of issues I spoke of are without a working engine. Engines quit causing most of these problems.
@@MichaelWargo I totally respect your opinion but while turbines have lag to full power, going for example from 15% to 30% is pretty much immediate, at least with modern engines. I personally like to land RC planes (and jets) like a full scale airplane meaning pitch trim for speed and power for rate of descent. Totally agree that a different technique is necessary on dead sticks.
@@acw400 Truly, I would like to add power but you saying there is immediate access to power on a turbine is just counter to my experience. Even if it takes a half second while installing there is literally no chance in my opinion that power could resume before the plane falls out of the air. Disagreement is healthy. If you have any power with a turbine, then you have another problem by the time it winds back down again you’re off the other end of the runway in many cases. The best ways to control your descent with power. The high rates are in the case where you just need extra deflection. That is my opinion and I’m going to stick by it. I’ve been on the receiving end of needing power and it not being there. So it would be hard for me to endorse what you said through my personal experience
@@MichaelWargo Again, I totally respect your opinion. Just want to observe that we are discussing the different side of the same equation. In order to maintain an ideal approach slope of say 3 degrees, there is exactly one pitch input (angle of attack) and one power input that will maintain that slope. You choose to reduce the power to some constant and adjust the pitch with occasionally large deflections with high rate. I chose to keep the pitch constant until flare and adjust the power to stay on the slope. The reason I do this is because it can be really hard to tell when the plane will stall when we aren't in the plane and have no feel for the flying surfaces. Another point where I have to agree to disagree is regarding your concern that adding power will cause the plane to accelerate. At equal angle of attack adding power will cause the plane to climb at the same speed it is trimmed for. It should not accelerate unless you lower the angle of attack as well.
@@acw400 I love this discussion. But we are talking a model. calculated angles and consistent speed and approach angles are virtually impossible. I agree with you on I really that is what I am teaching. Long and steady. The extra throws are only used in an extreme situation. I am not suggesting making big maneuvers. It is if engine quits, a gust pushes you up, or you are so slow that you just have no airflow to pull nose or wing up with low rates. It has happened to me many times. It is like having extra fuel, or extra runway. Why not have it if you need it for extraordinary circumstances. So... Land any way you want, but if I am landing for the first time someone else's 20k jet, I am doing it on high rates just in case. IT has been successful for me and I am sharing that. Send me a video of you landing a jet your way, and I promise I will watch it. If anything will work better for me, I will adapt. I am open. I promise. I am always learning.
at 9:46, 10:50, YOU SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT the planning and execution of a FLARE, Just Above the ground.!!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_flare
I always try to be thorough... BUt yes, it is another good subject. Sorry to omit it.
So with high rates on landing, what would you do with expo?
If you watched any of my other videos regarding the subject of rates, you will know that I always set the expo to have the center of the sticks almost identical to my lower rates. With the jet it’s a little different because the low rates tend to be very low because of the speed. With a 3-D plane, it is often imperceptible at the center of the sticks between my low rates and my high rates. It is only at the end of the sticks where it is extreme. I can’t give you a percentage number, but on a 3-D plane where my low rates are at 25%, and my higher rates are 100%, my expo is in the 60% range. So landing on higher rates should feel the same as low rates unless you have to really hit it hard to save a bad position. Does that make sense?
That rebel is not a heavy wing loaded rc jet How about a f104 !
The rebel wasn't the lesson... LOL. Just a way to demonstrate with what I had at the field. I did not have an F104 handy... LOL I tried to show a few heavy ones though...