Trope Talk: The Hero's Journey
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Its origins are highly specific, its modern incarnation is a little more flexible, and most people nowadays have stopped trying to squish every single hero story into fitting it. But at heart, The Hero's Journey was an attempt to tie every hero story together into one narrative structure that described them all. Was it a success? No! But that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about! LET'S BREAK IT DOWN
Also, Red is… doing something? I think? so it's Blue's time to shine in this narrative breakdown of a multi-part troping juggernaut!
What was YOUR "oh hey, they did that bit in [story]" moment from this video? Drop it in a comment!
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Red: Leaves on an adventure to explore a fantastical world. Blue: Hippity Hoppity this episode is my property.
lol
Yes
Has blue ever had any musical lessons or public speaking lessons, he seems to talk with a very consistent rythum and has a up down up down fluctuation to his voice. XP
It's free real-estate.
True
"Trope responsibly, kids"
No
You wouldn't trope a car
@@redman7775 no meanS no>
Even when Blue's in charge, Red still has to end the video on 'so... yeah....', lol
I'm so glad she did. I couldn't stand not having the "so, yeah"
*that's the joke*
Yeah, like, why is that?
I wanna like this but it has 666 likes.... just say I liked
@@hyerimji4400 you can like now
"Did you know that bookcase was a foot away from the wall that whole time?"
When you come back home from your Hero's Journey and you life is never the same...
XD This comment is underrated.
I'm so glad they finally addressed the bookcase gap!
I KNEW IT
Blue: _This section is usually called the "Belly of The Whale" named after that very moment in the story of-_
Me: *Pinocchio*
Blue: _-Jonah_
Me: *oh.*
This exact same thing happened to me, lol
There's a whale in Pinocchio?! I really need to rewatch that, I haven't seen it since I was like, five.
@@Great_Olaf5 I don’t think I’ve ever actually watched the movie but through cultural osmosis I know everything about it.
The whale should be memorable because it’s absolute terrifying.
really? I thought "who the hell is in a whale, and how can we save this poor sod?!"
Understandable response.
So, we just gonna overlook that someone put a hit out on Blue and sent ninjas for him?
*falls over on table with ninja star in back*
And Red is conspicuous absent in the beginning. Clearly there is a conne-
*falls over on table with ninja star in back*
Lt. Hughes, is that you?
well my work is done
Sherlock Smuuug
:(
Still too soon
Is this a reference to Journey To The West Part 1? Doesn't Blue specifically get attacked by ninjas when Red mentions Lao Tzu?
"With the machine we hooked up to Campbell's grave, we have enough energy to power the entire Eastern seaboard with how fast he's spinning" is this episode's most underrated quote
18:34
@@janetrostock6476 thank you kind person
truly. It's so customizeable too. you can basically apply it to any deceased figure with weird strongly held convictions (looking at you Lovecraft)
not any more it isnt
No, its the "did you know this bookshelf is a foot away from the wall" because that perspective fuckery has been killing me
Ordinary World: Waking up
Call to action: stereotypical Ninja attack
Refusal: Leave's ninja attack like it's nothing
Meeting mentor: Finds Red's notes (granted she is more an equal, but I would say a mentor figure for trope talks)
Crossing the threshold: Decides to venture into trope talking and sits in the chair
Realm of Adventure: Talking about the wonderful world of tropes
Belly of the whale: Not so sure (maybe frustration of Campbell's insistance that the monomyth is just that, one myth to rule them all that all must follow).
Road of Trials: Explaining each of the stages in detail.
Final Showdown/Apotheosis/Greatest Boon: Summarizing the heroes journey and the flaws in thinking that everything is required in every story.
The Return: Winding the video down and conclusion.
Crossing the Return threshold: Red is back
Final Reward: Lots of likes and another great video.
Congrats on completing your hero's journey Blue!
Yeck Heah!
That was some quality analysis there. 👌
Love it!
Technically it was Blue's chair first, but very nice analysis!
How did I not notice this before.
*casually turns this onto 1.25 speed bc i'm used to red and her fast talk*
I thought something felt a little off XD
I know right
That...actually helped. Thanks!
Odd, I always slow red to .75 cause I watched blue's history videos first
You are my savior!
"Also did you know this bookcase was a foot away from the wall this whole time"
Red. 2 *years* I have commented this exact thing and only _now_ you realise.....
*flips table over*
（╯ ͡° ▽ ͡°）╯︵ ┻━┻
also notice the conveniently placed arm
I remember seeing a comment about it, but mainly because im Marathoning this
*FLIPS BOOKCASE OVER*
When?
"The bookcase has been a foot away from the wall."
C A N N O T U N S E E
_I_ can't see it ....☹️
I was always able to see it
I have always seen, always
my anger grows.
In this case I DO want that reversing remote Mr. Krabs of Spongebob has.
I CAME AS SOON AS I--
blue why are you here
And even when Blue does the trope talk, Red ends it with "so, yeah".
i do generally prefer Red's videos over Blue's, but i had fun with this one
also holy cow likes
I agree with reds usually being preferable. I actually think it may be this video that brings me around to checkimg out blues other videos bacause as you said, it was really good.
Lots of love for Red, But I prefer Blue myself.
Zombles Allegoy Yeah, I just watched some of the Armchair classics which ate a similar pace and feel to Reds and loved it.
Campbell: *writes hero with a thousand faces*
Writers: oh look, someone structured my story for me
Readers: Why are all these stories so cookie-cut?
Spielberg and Lucas, we're looking at you bastards.
Karol Gutowski wait, you’re me!
Juan Manuel Penaloza I mean, Lucas was a close, personal friend of Campbell’s, to the point that Campbell spent a lot of time in his twilight years as a guest at Skywalker Ranch, Lucas’s home...
Mmmmeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Doctor Strange had the best non-fight ending for a superhero action movie in recent memory.
James Tang He quick saved right before the boss
@James Tang Agreed. That was awesome. Strange using the one trick he has; knowing he can't beat the ruler of the Dark Dimension in a straight fight and deciding to use the Dark Dimension's lack of time to trap Dormammu and himself in an infinite time loop where only he can input ctrl+c:
Strange: "This is how it is now! You and I, trapped in this moment forever."
Dormammu: "Then you will spend eternity dying!"
Strange: "But everyone on earth will live."
Dormammu: "You will suffer."
Strange: "...Pain is an old friend."
I find that moment interesting because I remember hearing about the time loop from my friends before watching the movie and thinking that it sounded stupid, but when I watched the movie I enjoyed that moment a lot.
Honestly one of the coolest ways a hero has ever defeated the big bad.
Its nonstandard, non-direct and clever. What's not to love?
Red: "Did you know this bookcase has been a foot away from the wall the whole time?"
Me: *checks previous video in series* "Well, damn!"
Would like, but the likes are at 404
@@razatronidiotics9430 That I can well understand. :)
Whelp. Red’s dead.
R.I.P
(Edit)
Oop. There she is. Sorry Red. I *cough* never doubted that you’d return.
Red's dead redemption
...
Yes, I'll see myself out.
FAKE FAN!
(Jk)
Isagail She was probably in a whale or something...
The 'elixir' is ambergris.
Silas Redding she was in the belly of the whale
Can we all just take a moment to acknowledge the fact Red left the fireplace going unattended with paper strewn all about?
🎶Burning down the house🎶
Really enjoyed this breakdown of the Hero's Journey. It has always fascinated me that the HJ is something that describes stories we write without even actively following it, often enough.
For what it's worth, I'd posit that too often we apply tropes the wrong way around, especially as writers... See, here's the thing, if you actively look to use tropes in specific orders and arrangements for structure and narrative genius, unless you're specifically applying the effort to satire, you're probably just fobbing off some generic sort of product, instead of artistically and creatively writing the story...
If on the other hand, you look back over the first or second draft of a written work, applying notes about possible tropes along the way, THEN you can pick and choose which tropes (and cliches) might be most applicable to the work, which will slip by basically unnoticed, and which will act to detriment... Through editing, then, you can deviate the usual formula, or satirize one or another of the tropes in the story for comic purpose, or even just get rid of the device, mcguffin, cliched whatever...
In retrospect, during discussions, which any worthy piece of art or creativity should induce, the audience (readers, too) can apply a variety of tropes and cliches through the work to see which and how many might actually fit best, or eliminate them from contention as the conversation carries forward... This can reach a better understanding of WHY we appreciate the contemporary works as they come out and WHY there are certain works that... well... suck because of bad-application of tropes... or just bad trope choices to apply. ;o)
Oh hello future me ( get it )
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 there's this one youtube person I watch that literally thinks this hero's journey thing, only more simplified, is the end all be all and that every good story should use it and....honestly I don't like all the stories that follow it, and they even rewrote a story to fit it and made it stupid. Like the original was perfect and arguably fit the monomyth ANYWAY and it just kinda...ruined my view of it. Sometimes I think story structure is just another way to be critical and really isn't a good reflection of the value of the stories themselves. That's why it always annoys me when. My sister refuses to watch a movie because it has lower review ratings. I don't care what critics say. Let ME decide. Not everything had to match up with a universal rule in order to be good.
@@rymaru2138 That person you watch on youtube (apparently) doesn't quite get it... at least, not yet.
My point was that the Tropes and Cliches exist... so we might as well use them. HOWEVER, they're better used after the point of at least a first draft...
OR (just as valid) they're worthy of use by the audience of a particular work in conversational references TO that work...
When a writer starts writing by diagramming his particular list of tropes to use, along the specified cliche of structure to use them in, then he's only creating another formulaic product.
There's nothing really wrong with that, B-movies are still fun to watch at least from time to time... along with cheesy and extra cheesy products that might've been acclaimed and awarded some fifty or sixty years ago (before it was a cliche) but is only another in the library(ies) of such things now... stacking up endlessly... gathering dust.
If (on the other hand) that same writer scratches out a few "Key" scenes that he thinks are perfect, and then stitches together a sort of a guide to his plot... approximately what the central conflict is and who it involves in his cast of characters... That's alright, too... Only wait until AFTER that first draft gets written out long-form, to go back and start discovering where the "cliche hero" archetype is in the story... What or Who the villain is, and whether or not you've made a delightfully despicable son of a bitch of it... or should it need work.
Cliches and Tropes, then... In my general references and purposes, are Placeholders... easily referenced terms to use for suggesting various angles and perspectives of interpretation when I discuss (or partake of discussion) on creative works. They're certainly not going away anytime soon.
I'd just far prefer to attach them to something that already exists as a piece of creative work (even privately between a writer and a helpful friend) than to stick them on a graph-sheet and plod along building a story of adventure and antics the way a Corporation hires engineers to build a car or house.
Stories exist because the human condition is fluid, organic, and generally ALL FUCKED UP... so we tell stories in some effort to make sense of the mess. You probably shouldn't go about "engineering a mess" from the start. ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 exactly. I think referencing a framework like this is good when writing the first draft, to help generate ideas and angles, but to literally map out a first draft based completely on something like this is just too much. I'd say use tropes and such to strengthen a narrative, not necessarily to MAKE the thing.
I was wondering if Blue would say "So...yeah" Then Red comes in and everything makes sense again.
Also, did anyone notice Sun Wukong (Monkey King), on the wall in the top right-hand corner?
I literally never saw that until now
Yes
Oh I wondered what that was
Oh, yes, I see him! 😆
Yes
I love the plot of this trope talk: red is nowhere to be found to film the episode, so blue has to go in the unknown world that is making a trope talk video, until red eventually comes back, allowing him to go back to the familiarity of history summarized (and leaving red to end the episode with the expected "so, yeah")
The video itself is a nudge to the hero's journey in it's simplest form (as we didn't get a darkest hour or the trials), of course it isn't the whole thing, but it's like red saying "so, uh, yeah" at the end of the "rule of three" episode instead of "so, yeah", adding a third word as a reference to the trope itself.
At least this is how I see it.
Are ninja attacks and epic adventures the norm for these two when we aren't looking?
John Sears I think so. Blue seems to be the one with the Ninja problem though. Poor guy...
No, Intergalatic wars and killing gods is the norm for these two. Ninja attacks and epic adventures is just a hobby
Wouldn't be surprised if Red was the one sending them.
They're ninjas, how would you know?
+Person
It's just like them fighting ninjas and stuff while being like "No, I need to end this fast so I can get this next video out!" and just recording what they can in-between battles, lol.
Are we in the mirror universe? Is Red going to cover some point of history next?!
She kinda did that with her quetzalcoatl video
But she says talking about history makes her break out in hives (see King Arthur Video).
she did that with quetzalcoatl
The Hero of a Thousand Faces is an anthropology book so makes sense he did this one I guess. Being honest I thought Red was returning in the middle of the video since this topic is a bit of a overlap of their usual subjects.
Pretentious Elizabeth
Red talked about the history of Easter.
Sun Wukong does not travel the Hero's Journey, the Hero's Journey travels by Sun Wukong
Indeed, Son Wukong laid the foundations of the hero's journey and all other heroes have followed in search of his awesomeness
Absuletly.
in mother russia!: you do not travel heros journey! heros journey travels you!
That’s so true
Sun Wukong don't abide by no writing rules. Sun Wukong says 'fuck it.'
The moment you used the term "Uncle Ben'd" to describe the effect of a death on the main character, my heart felt like it was being stabbed with a knife! It's such a good example but it makes me so sad.
0:40 "hmm i bet that red will comeback from a hero's journey at the end of the video"
*waits till the end of the video*
AAAAnnnd im correct
I spoiled myself, dammit...
LMAO
Let's not forget the most modern addition to the structure: the sequel/universe bait.
DiscoClam Yessss
That particular trope should be publicly executed by fire.
Merritt Animation There’s a right way to do it, and many wrong ways to do it.
Let's not forget Disney's Terrible 2s!
It's a very greedy spin on The Adventure Continues. Hate it.
It's a miracle those notes didn't catch fire during the video!
A fire that size wouldn't have that kind of heat coming out of it.
It'll be hot enough to light any loose papers that fly into it on fire ;_;
Kaiser Williams
IF they fly in.
In short: the Hero's Journey is more what you call guidelines than actual rules.
And yes, I know exactly what I said.
It is, it's a framework, not an architecture. Like Blue said, it's not a recipe
Aye, but case that chatter when Capt. Teague is around. He'll shoot you for talking bad about The Code.
*excited shoulder monkey noises*
@@dreameater8548 *pets the monkey* 🐒
The Heroes Journey is the Dungeon Master’s Guide to writing heroic stories.
Once again, ATLA proves to be an amazing show full of the great usage of many literary tropes by being able to perfectly fit within the Hero’s Journey. Goddamn, I love Avatar
Though the sleep deprivation episode is just...*shivers* no thanks
@CrystalOtaku93 Agree with both. The sleep deprivation felt like a fever dream. But then you remember we got so many episodes like Siege of the North parts 1-2, Zuko Alone, Tales of Ba Sings Se, Lake Laoguy, The Beach, The Puppet Master, The Masters, The Sudden Raiders and so many god tier episodes.
@@Light-at-Dawn Into The Inferno,Sokka's Master,The Fire Bending Masters...
10:16 Ember Island Players!
*Hears "Journey" music in the background*
I see what you did there
Subtle and beautiful :)
Is that what the song is called?
Omega157 It's called Threshold by Austin Wintory
Samurai Wolf That’s also fitting (because of the “Crossing the Threshold” step)
@@goldenwarrior1186 The entire soundtrack of the game (as well as the game itself) is heavily based on The Hero's Journey. Many of the tracks are named after the specific steps their corresponding area of the game represents. For example, there's The Call, Threshold, The Road of Trials, Temptations, Descent, Atonement, Nadir, and Apotheosis.
Did Red have to fight Campbell in his Thousand Faced form? Is the elexir the cure for trope misuse? Will Blue get to tell his story about fighting ninjas? Found out in the next episode of Trope Talk Z
Andres Arancio Yes. Elixir. Yes. Hopefully.
Next time- on Trope Talk Zzzzz....
I like this soap reference
The Elixir being the cure for trope misuse is itself a misuse of a McGuffin, there will be no cure for bad tropes, just as planned! Ah ha ha ha ha!
Kristopher Ruiz TWA cult leader is that you?
Wait isn’t that the Macguffin Elixir?!
HOW DID SHE GET THAT FROM THE LIBRARY OF LITERACY AND MAGIC FORGED IN POWER CAVERN THAT CAN ONLY BE REACHED THROUGH SECRET PASSAGE WAYS FROM BOOKS?
Oh
wait-
I was expecting Red to come out and be angry that Blue stole her segment. Possibly add her thoughts and whatnot. What I got was way better XD
Neko Queen
Who idea was it for her to come out of the bookcase😄😄😄
😎 defying expectation of her storming in being mad taking her show back over and giving you a much more desirable outcome than you thought 👏 I laughed I enjoyed that plastic bin at the end
So, yeah.
@@rpgincorporated8302 I love how even a Blue Trope Talk still ended with Red saying that.
One story I've been thinking of writing for a while essentially involves the Hero's Journey being a metaphysical law that Heroes have to follow, with a reluctant Hero becoming a villain as he struggles to escape the confines of said law and a non-Hero becoming a hero to overcome the villain-Hero (and do something about that metaphysical law along the way).
Timothy McLean that sounds good
That sounds amazing!!
That sounds meta
I dig it
GIMME! I WANT 5
Timothy McLean I like the sound of that but I have a bias for heroes gone villain. I'd read
Blue: "Named the belly of the whale for that moment in the story of-"
Me: "Pinocchio."
Blue: "Jonah."
Me: ".... Him too."
Rise of the Guardians with the Hero’s Journey
Ordinary World: Jack Frost flying around, causing mischief and having fun
Refusal: Jack says no to becoming a Guardian
Meeting the Mentor: Jack getting lectured by North
Crossing the Threshold: Jack joins the adventure to the Tooth Fairy’s castle
Realm of Adventure: Every time Jack encounters Pitch or interacts with the Guardians after the Tooth Fairy battle
Belly of the Whale: the point when Pitch entices Jack into leaving the Guardians and Easter is destroyed, when Jack leaves and gets confronted by Pitch in Antarctica, and when he gets his memory back and fixes his staff
Road of Trials: fighting Pitch with the weakened Guardians
The Breather: that one moment when Jack realizes his center is Fun and he gets the idea to get the other neighborhood kids to believe and help them fight Pitch
Final Showdown/Apotheosis/Great Boon: Fighting Pitch with the help of the kids, the Guardians, and the Sandman
The Return: The day is saved, the Guardians are congratulating one another on the ice, and Jack is finally ready to be a Guardian
Crossing the Return Threshold: Sandy puts all the kids to sleep with dreamsand and the Guardians leave
Final Reward: Jack Frost has his memories, friends, a place where he belongs, and he’s finally believed in.
19:02
“HAH!” *nonchalantly magicks through the gap in between the wall and the bookshelf*
“woah” *99% unfazed*
“DUDE YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE-!!!”
XD
I love these dorks
It's the- the hero's- the- THE HERO's JOURNEY.
A Trope Talk beyond trope talks.
Yes trope talk is my favorite!
Edit: BLUE DOES TROPE TALK??
He does now...
Stage two, call to adventure. Also called "Your village just burned down and your parents are dead"
I have this weird thing where my secondary protagonist is doing the Hero's Journey and the main protagonist is just plodding along and dragging him through the West so he can get his story started. I think it's unique and quite confusing and completely random, so it's probably good.
Betting that Red is busy working on the next video of Journey to the West.
Tyler Johnson God I would love that, while I love this video and want Blue to do more trope talks or other typically Red videos I want Red to be the one to complete Adventure To The West.
It'll come out... eventually
I hope so
As long as it gets here eventually she can take as long as she wants.
Blue throwing so much shade that journey to the west isn’t done yet
xenos hive he's all of us tbh
You can actually see a drawing of the monkey king on a note on the right side
ha your right
If only Kingdom Hearts could be analyzed with the hero's journey without losing your sanity 🤷♀️
you also gotta consider the villain's tridecagon 🤷
it actually fits better with Maureen Murdock's Heroine's Journey, seriously i suggest looking it up!
Oh my god. Kung Fu Panda is a perfect example of the medicine journey done well in modern media.
Red coming back literally just to finish with "So yeah"
Stage 8: Pre-Showdown Breather
"How long has it been since we've all sat around a campfire like this?"
"An eternity."
What was this from?
I remember when I was a kid reading the Redwall series some characters in the book I was reading who were on their own heroes journey, met with a couple of characters who had had a heroes journey in a previous book. They had been the kind of heroes who couldn't return to their normal life in the end and continued adventuring, but ended up sacrificing themselves so the current heroes could escape overwhelming odds. It was a weird thing for a kid to read at a time when happily ever after was the norm, but it highlighted the fundamental flaw in the concept. The idea that after so much excitement someone could go back to the mundane. At the end of the book someone commented that they could never see those two dieing in an easy chair, and it brought some closure to their deaths, while also giving a sense that they were paving the way for the new heroes. This also introduced the idea to me that maybe the best end for a hero is a heroic one, just so long as it comes after they save the world, or at least their world.
If I remember correctly, that was the novel Loamhedge. It has it's difficulties, but I always liked that one because of the heroic sacrifice you're talking about. It was possibly the most well executed heroic sacrifice I've ever seen, with a bittersweet feel that was almost more sweet than bitter. Those two were lifelong friends, and the fact that they were dying didn't matter to them because they were going to explore what came after together.
Also, if you're reading this and haven't experienced the world of Redwall, go try it out. It's a simple, clean series full of riddles, quests, epic battles, and feasts so vividly described that your mouth will water. It may not appeal to everyone, but it might appeal to you. I always loved those books and always will.
"cue DBZ theme here"
What is the elixir that Red got? Will Blue do another Trope Talk? And what IS behind that bookcase? FIND OUT NEXT TIME ON OVERLY SARCASTIC PRODUCTIONS!!!
Hopefully it won’t take a year
@@lunarmaiden6660 *-Laughs in the distance-*
wait, did Red go on a hero's journey? the images on the projector (of the hero) looks like red
SHIT U RIGHT
Two years late, but it could have also been a Medicine Journey, hence why she has an elixir and says she has to return with it.
I was re-watching this on a playlist of osp and I am like really sick and was like half asleep, so when I heard blue talking i thought it was history. Then I woke up a little bit because I heard something very not history and was confused for like 10 minuets before realizing how much of an idiot i am. Congrats Blue, you completely confused half asleep me.
Inner demon: experience character development!
Twilight main character: NEVER!!!
Twilight character: I should develop character my character over several books, slowly becoming a better person
Inner twilight character.: */be a stupid cunt with no character/*
The last straw was how Meyer teased a big battle near the end of Breaking Dawn only to have some rando pop up out of nowhere, explain what a dhampir is, and then have all the conflict and the story come to a grinding halt. I already couldn't stand the Twilight saga, and that abrupt ending felt like a slap in the face. Look, I get it. Some days it's hard to write a decent fight scene. Nine times out of ten, I'm just not feeling it and when I force myself to write a fight scene, it turns to poop. However, even an awkward fight scene is better than a character with no foreshadowing appearing, pulling some deus ex machina, and then leaving to never be significant again. Also, it was well established that the Voltori were out for blood and weren't going to stop for anything to eliminate threats to their way of life, yet a few generic paragraphs from some stranger was enough to convince them? I think the Twilight saga is a must-read for writers simply because it's a shining example of what not to do.
From what I understand of Twilight, the main characters r extremely boring, but the background characters r gorgeously constructed, the story is overall boring cuz the interesting ones r never important to the plot as told in the main narrative.... Keep in mind, I haven't read the books and I'm speaking from the standpoint of having read and liked many of the head cannons about the bg characters
@@MK-dr7dx That’s explained in the movie, when Aro takes Alice’s hand and sees that the battle would ultimately end in his destruction.
I will excuse all manner of bad writing in that series, simply because it blessed me with one of my favorite characters in all of fiction: the Major, Jasper Whitlock.
Now I feel deeply compelled to write a book.
Autumn Campbell same
I relate
Go for it! All of you! Even if it starts with chicken scratch and notes. If you have an idea, that you believe in, write it down. Put every idea down, don’t be afraid to change up things if you realize your characters and plot can be better. Research when you need it, and put your heart into it, but feel free to step outside the box if you need compelling foils. Good luck!
Grass TV I hear ya! I actually was going to open my laptop and finish writing some dialogue, but I HAD to check CZcams! 😂 well worth it, though!
Also true. (I had to do theology research, and create a backstory/theology for my story, because my friend/beta/idea bouncer was asking questions with answers that did not exist yet, but I realized was going to be essential.) Further reading can give you ideas or perspectives you might not consider.
Hey people of CZcamsLand, who else would love to see a collaboration between Red and the Terrible Writing Advice Guy?
Braden Ware A thousand times yes
Yes. Yes. Absolutely yes.
I even see how it would happen. Red and Blue would be walking along chatting about some whatever when they walk through a door and it changes to the Terrible Writing Advice art style. They look around and say that they feel different/weird when the Terrible Writing Advice guy walks in and says something along the lines of "you're in my world now" and the video would be about the trope of the villain toying with the hero and this ultimately leads to their downfall. Lots of monologues, and the Terrible Writing Advice guy would go on about his favorite hero-villain trope, the love triangle, while Red and Blue know there's nothing even resembling this. The video would end with the Terrible Writing Advice guy literally collapsing under the weight of his own ego, and Red and Blue return to their room with the fire side chair.
Of course! Who wouldn’t want to see the two greatest wielders of productive sarcasm on the internet work together?
I imagine that Red and JP would probably do a lot of “arguing” back and forth, with Red systematically having to shut down all of the terrible writing advice (TM) that JP is spewing, or JP trying to ruin all of Red’s better advice. Sorta like a game of devil-vs-angel, but with literary analysts rather than artists
Yes
There IS a formula to how all stories must be told:
It must have a beggining and an end.
Yep, even if you start in medias res and never turn back its still a beggining.
Yep, even if the story ends in the middle of a sentence, thats still an end.
You cant have a story without beggining somewhere, and no story is never ending.
What about:
1:Tom is a man who can rewind time
2: but doesn't remember doing it...
3:read line (1) again.
I friggin' LOVE In Medias Res. I started a story series with the main character falling through the air in a hail of stone and broken glass. My first series starts with the main character already in a prison cell and meeting her rescuer, with a little Tomato in the Mirror action where I don't reveal until chapter 3 that she's a human-turned-dragon. If I can get away with it, I'll start a story in the middle of things just for the heck of it. ^_^
@@TyphinHoofbun I almost always start stories in media res because my brain finds the most interesting part and goes "this is the beginning". I am not overly fond of setup.
It must also have a character. Even if your story is about a place where people don't live, the environment then becomes a character unto itself.
@@tortis6342 While there is value and great rewards to be found in set up, I've always liked a sentence from Ben Croshaw:
"Is this the most interesting part of the characters' lives? If not, why aren't you showing us that?"
"No trope is omnipotent" *laughs in omnipresent tropes index*
Honestly, that’s my biggest beef with people who argue with the Hero’s Journey - it was never meant to actually FORCE all stories to be “the same” as it was pointing out that even wildly different cultures - ones that couldn’t even have theoretically been in contact at the point in history the stories were first codified - still managed to have similar ENOUGH ideas that it has relevance to the universal humanity of us all. It’s worthwhile to note that Joseph Campbell wrote his books in light of the Carl Jung’s theory of Collective Subconscious - the modern day equivalent to the Platonic layer from which we derive all our concepts.
To me, the "Medicine Journey" would serve to describe the physical journey the characters take through the story, while the "Heroes Journey" would describe the protagonist's PERSONAL journey in their mind and soul. That "Who Am I" concept.
I think I have just figured out FFXII's character situation. Thank you for that.
life: "now experience character development!"
me: "nyeh!"
I like how Red just comes back with a magical elixir and is just casually "THIS BOOKCASE THO"
I love the extra touch of using a Journey OST for background music when discussing The Hero's Journey trope.
I remember in sixth grade we were assigned to make a creative story completely based on the heroes journey. Felt more of an assignment than actually writing something creative
Reeeedddd.... Blue didn't use the Pacific Rim vs. Comments footage!
>Using Journey OST in a video about The Hero's Journey
Nice
reminding you that you made this comment
Can I just give some extra love to Red for her wonderful artwork, especially here? All the Blue drawings look fantastic.
Also, AdventuRed is my new anime crush.
"Uncle Ben-ed"
I'd love to see a Trope Talk on The Heroine's Journey! I think Red would really enjoy it, since it focuses on building friendships instead of being alone at the climax. Gail Carriger wrote a great book on it, but there are other sources if you prefer.
Oh yeah. I heard about the Heroine's journey yesterday and I found it really great
Sūn on the paper in the back right makes me so happy
Glad someone else noticed!
When he talked about Apotheosis, i was thinking, "ah, that was when Aang found out he could simply take Ozai's bending instead of killing him
Excellent choice of background music! For anyone wondering, it's from the game Journey, which is an excellent example of the Hero's journey in an interactive (and visually stunning!) format. For more info, search for Extra Credits Hero's Journey.
Shoutout to the fact that this episode is four minutes longer than normal, not because the script is longer, but because Blue reads said script 25% slower than Red does
i realize that this is an old video, but i just needed you to know that my English teacher is using this as an example for my hero's journey assignment.
Whoa it's Blue. :0
Bamboozled again.
The Last Bookie
More like bam-blue-zled XD
Am I right?!
Sorry
Hayley VandeBerg
I- How am I supposed to respond to this? How am I supposed to feel about this?
I dunno, but I made it happen XD sorry to pun-ish you with my wordplay
Fuck I was too late
Hayley VandeBerg THAT WAS A PUN
At the beginning I thought red was gonna burst through the wall like the cat in the felix advert
Yay! Video from my favorite channel!
I like that Blue almost always seems to be running from ninjas at least in Red's vids
I think it would be interesting if there was a Hero's Journey story where it seems like the whole thing is getting to a final fight against the big bad, only for the big bad to turn around and sue the hero in universal court for trying to thwart his plans, and ending with the hero and villain both being slapped with a restraining order so that they can't cause harm to the other.
Blue did a good job! Joint trope talks in the future?
Yes, Please!
Probably the most clear break down I've heard of the concept. Nice. I've never quite been able to apply it to works I'm experiencing myself so far.
great episode, I was a bit surprised this wasn't covered yet but I'm happy it now is.
the one thing I think is important to remember and wasn't mentioned is that, as far as I can recall, Campbell was an academic, and used the model (and the truly egregious word "mono-myth") as a way of looking and explaining existing (and mostly mythological) works, I don't think it was ever meant to be prescriptive, he wasn't trying to write a self-help book, but instead to look at patterns existing in most all of classical hero's journeys.
I think that if anything keeps him turning at his grave is whenever someone tells someone else "this doesn't fit the hero's journey".
Agree.
I’m so glad that you’ve clarified that The Hero’s Journey is not an all encompassing story element. I’ve always felt restricted in the idea that EVERY story has to fit The Hero’s Journey and I’m glad to find that at least two other people share my sentiment.
I love how the music playing throughout this video is the music from the game Journey which is one of my favorite games of all time.
Luke Skywalker. That's all I've got to say.
Obi-Wan Kenobi. I would say Anakin, but he doesn't really count because of...you know...the Mustafar thing...
well, you could if you put Anakin through the hero's journey if you include all six films. I've been experimenting with my writing and I think you could add the hero's journey to the villains and even countries and nations, its an adaptive concept.
Interestingly A New Hope covers all stages of the hero's journey while Force Awakens covers stages 1-4 and Last Jedi covers 5-7
the issues with the new films are with Rey who honestly does not follow the hero's journey or its done so bad I can't tell. I have seen it with Poe and Finn but honestly, everyone else is harder to follow.
luke goes through in with each of the original films again and again as, then also as a whole with trilogy as a whole.
sorry im a little bitter with the new films.
Anyone else gonna see the Solo movie?
I love how it still technically ends with Red saying “so, yeah.”
I'm a sucker for a classic trope, and this is also why I think that individual seasons of television series should each have a main villain separate from the main villain of the entire show, to act as trials for the hero on his or her journey. Shows like Buffy jump to mind also Justified has this sort of thing as well.
Avatar: The Last Airbender and its sequel series, The Legend of Korra, also had some of that, but each in a slightly different way:
Avatar: The Last Airbender's villains were almost always part of the Fire Nation, but the season's primary antagonist changed almost every season, with the Fire Lord ultimately being the overarching big bad.
By contrast, The Legend of Korra used a villain every season, but the effect said villain had on the protagonist lasted well into the following season and beyond. Also, season 1 of Legend of Korra had one of the most interesting villains of all time. Amon was really well-done.
+matthew St. Cyr
Amon was alright, if only the ending of the season hadn't been rushed to hell and ruined.
Lucas Winsor I don't know; I thought they did pretty well with the ending (at least the parts related to Amon):
(spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the show)
The reveal of his true backstory and motivations, the showdown, him accidently exposing himself (twice) in moments of complete survival instinct; revealing that; as great a strategist as he was; he could not improvise, the end of his character arc with his brother (I prefer the interpretation that the tear he shed at least in part meant that he knew what his brother was about to blow up the boat and chose not to stop it), and the lingering effect he had, both on the protagonist and on the world. His revolution indirectly brought about the Republic of Nations electing a non-bending president, and he would continue to be something of an effective source of fear for Korra well into season 3.
I agree that the rest of the ending was rushed and badly done; if only they hadn't put so much time and effort into that stupid love triangle.
My main problem with Korra Season 1 is that they tried to wrap up all the loose ends in the VERY last episode. It felt forced, ESPECIALLY the fact that Korra regained her bending by the end of the SAME episode in which she lost it.
My main understanding of S1 is that it was never initially meant to have a season 2 at all. If it was, then they completely rejected a potentially AMAZING character arc for Korra herself.
At that, we are in agreement. Also, you are correct that the show was never originally meant to have a season 2.
You just summed up in a few minutes what my high school English teacher took like three weeks to explain.
The dulcet tones of Austin Wintory to soothe us through the Hero talk. Anyway, love these.
"Angst, angst, angst." I'm a reader always ready for the angst👍👍
BLUE!!!! I LOVE YOU!!!
I saw him first! He's mine! ;P
Krymson kyng go fight his gf, I'll fight the winner before they can recover.
a hellenic pagan
I love your way of thinking ;)
i love this guy in a bro way, i have a boyfriend that im totally gay for already lol
Lol
You okay, Red?
But good job, Blue! : )
That book case has been driving me nuts since I first started watching these vids!!!!! I just stare at it the whole video thinking *whhhyyyy*
this is a lot like Avatar the Last Airbender, only the adventure, Whale, harder adventure is repeated after a climax. the avatar journey is like this:
call
refusal
begin
call
refusal (yes, twice)
Starting Journey
Journey
Whale
breather
buildup
climax
whale
deeper adventure
breather
whale
trial
buildup
climax
return
reward
Blue....
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH RED?!?!!
(Great video though)
Shes most likely working on Journey to the West
*Reads note on top right*
MOOONNNKKKEEEEYYYYY KKKKIIIIINNNNGGGG!!!!!!!
*SHAKES FITS*
Ikr 😂
Fun Fact! I work as a ghostwriter on occasion and some jobs were for content story mills, but like developing novel series either for overseas or western audiences. And for SOME REASON every single time they required me to use the hero's journey structure to a T in order to write. This was across multiple companies and writers by the by. Let me tell you, having to write for a company within the hero's journey structure without developing the narrative naturally SUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSSSS. I have such a deep hatred of the hero's journey not because it's a trope that jives with a lot of stories, but because every goddamn company believes you have to absolutely follow every single step to developing a narrative and Thanks I Hate It.
Funny thing is that Campbell conciously ignored everything that didn't fit into his idea when he came up with the whole hero's journey shenanigans. Like, totally ignoring ancient stories that didn't had the elements he liked. I too hate the hero's journey, but for other reasons.
@@zakazany1945 Right! He was looking for a very specific pattern and if you're looking for it there's a good chance some stretches will be made to try and find it in certain stories.
It's not necessarily that I have a problem with "oh, this story just happens to follow some points of the hero's journey" but when corporate believes a trope is an honest to god template to make your story and you have to follow each step to a T.
My favorite incident working for this company was, "We want a story that follow the beats of Journey to the West, but also follow the Hero's Journey format! Good luck!"
We're enormous fans of the work you guys do. I find myself coming back again and again to re-watch Trope Talk episodes I've already seen. They never get old, and you both have superb voices, which only adds to the joy of listening. Keep up the stellar job!
I like how this episode FEELS like it was made by blue instead of Red. Actually using bits about history, but also having parts in it that feel like the notes themselves he's following.
and then I thought about the trope itself and was like WOAH, the trope itself IS historical! And now I think giving him the notes **IS** what happened. Playing out the reality as a stichk for the start.
Or maybe im just insane.
Oh I really like the opening. Nice to see you guys stretching your skills.
I always did wonder about the bookcase being so far away from the wall, but i felt that i shouldn't mention it.
SHIT, just watched Extra Credits' video on this.
...ah well round 2 can't hurt
Venus Gillespie
haven't heard of it before but i gotta check it out now!
Same. Just rewatched it.
I love you for using Threshold from Journey as background music! :D . . . Wait... I see what you did there ;)
Also it's very distracting :P
Yes thank you, I get so sick of critics saying “it doesn’t fit the hero’s journey structure it must be bad” or “it doesn’t fit the three act structure it must be bad”