The Expanse 4x5 Reaction | Oppressor
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- All hell breaks loose, as they do with our crew
#theexpanse
0:00 Beltalowda Forever
13:51 Holden does Holden, Naomi does Naomi
35:55 Choices Choices Choices
Editing and Visual Elements: Xander What
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One of the issues is thinking of "The Belters" as a single, monolithic entity, rather than dozens of different factions competing for the scarce resources in the Outer Planets. The folks on Illus are just one such faction.
Nope, that's why the expanse is so good.
Everyone has a valid point of view and reasons why they do everything they do.
It makes it very hard to label people.
Well, not everyone, but even those who don't can make you think they do at first.
Yeah that's why I love Murtry's character, he absolutely has a point in that 23 innocent people were killed. There's some reason wrongdoing there. The belters have a point, the Government doesn't own every planet in the sky.
Great job adding the suicide prevention resources 👏
And yet, she goes on to disparage Lucia's character for wanting to take the _"coward's way out"_ -- Who the fuck even says that anymore about someone with mental health issues?! The lack of empathy there was stunning!
@@robertcartier5088 Quite literally anyone who has had to pick up the pieces afterwards. It's not a lack of empathy - quite the opposite.
@@robertcartier5088 You know, I once called someone out on that phrase. Then she flew into an emotional rage. Thought she might hit me.
She had lost her mother to suicide years earlier.
I apologized and backed down because it wasn't my place to police her language, even if that tragedy hadn't occurred. You see, my empathy told me her feelings were more important than my opinion and it wasn't my place to judge her or stoke her trauma.
True empathy abhors judgment and is reluctant to ascribe cause to another's actions without sufficient familiarity with their life. And even then, who are we to judge?
Thanks, i just lost a good friend to suicide
@@adoptedskywalker8818 my sympathies, that’s terrible
Murtry did go to the leaders of the belters and say, "Give me the people who did this. Either they pay for this, or you all will." Believe me, I'm not standing up for Murtry, but I understand his fury.
23 people senselessly murdered has a way of pissing people off.
He's a psichopath, a sociopath, he likes kill people.
But he's not wrong.
Just a word of note (and a reminder).
Remember that what Naomi did for Lucia (giving her the choice to decide for herself if she still wanted to take her own life), is pretty much exactly the same thing that Amos did for Clarissa Mao at the beginning of the season (well,.......off-screen. They talked about it in episode one).
He knew she wanted to end it all and kill herself rather than spend the rest of her life in prison, but rather than try to force her not to, he gave her the option to decide for herself, and told her he believes everyone should have the right to make the choice for themselves.
The same theme we saw when Naomi told Drummer she believes Belters should have the right to decide for themselves if they still want to go to colonize the new planets even knowing that it could likely kill them due to their inability to adapt to the gravity and atmospheric conditions (as eventually happened to her).
That's really the theme of this season.
Choice.
....and what you do with it.
Not just for the people currently on Illus, but also for everyone back at the Solar System in Earth, Mars The Belt AND the Ring space and Medina station.
And the seasons that follow this will see what the consequences of some of those choices made bear forth to everyone, everywhere.
I agree with everything you said except..... Drummer's reason for not wanting Belters to colonize the ring planets is in a few generations they would be just like the Inners. A common theme with Drummer. I don't think Drummer was to worried about them dying because they couldn't handle the gravity. She was cold like that. I'm sure she didn't want Naomi to die but she could care less if a random Belter died trying to be an Inner.
To play the devil's advocate (nearly literally), Murtry _did_ try going to the Belters on Ilus first and demanding that they turn the guilty ones over to him, after he and Amos had found the detonator at the landing pad. What prevented that from happening was first the way he did it (issuing an ultimatum without presenting any real evidence), and more importantly the complete lack of trust on both sides. Belters don't trust an Earth company because they have (correctly) guessed that its goal is to kick them off the planet and steal their claim, based upon what the powers on Earth have done to them repeatedly in the past. Earthers don't trust Belters because they fail to see the few radicals apart from the overwhelming masses who just want to live a better life. Kind of reminds you of any number of relationships between different peoples on Earth...
The problem is that there was a lot of stuff in the books between the shuttle crash and the point where Murty begins taking action against the belters they cutted from the show.. so it looks like Murty is more evil from the start.. in the end its not like they were separated characters (like Ashford book vs TV) as they end up the same but in the book the reader might be way more sympatethic to him until the later part...
What I want to know about the situation (I haven't read the books yet) is if there was any sort of formal agreement between Earth, Mars, and the Belt about who gets to explore/claim what planet. Earthers are frustrated about not being able to go through the rings. Mars isn't rushing through, either, suggesting an agreement with Earth. What if the OPA/Belt leaders also signed on to this treaty?
If RCE patiently went through all of the formal channels to get their charter only to have a group of Belters rush ahead and say "First!" as if that means anything, they'd have a valid grievance.
@@Xhalph What happent here is that they were still not sure enought how to begin to explore the planets.. cause what Ashford said before.. the Ring Station itself its a bomb that could destroy the entire solar system if it thinks we are an enemy so they wanted to really go safe and slow over that.. so earth and mars sent some probes.. the first one to report a habitable planet was this system ..and as soon as they reported it in the news the Barbapiccola darted by surprise before they could even set up a blockade or something (in the books). So basically Earth found it first but the Belter refugees settled first.. then Earth sent a scientific spedition funded by RCE with an agreeement RCE could exploit potential sources were they found ... thats how RCE operated in the solar system and they were known to be kinda conning to Belters paying them bargains to keep asteroids full of materials.. so the Belters were reasonably wary about RCE leading the mission.
To answer your question more specific: at this point there were yet not agreements cause they wanted to go cautious and had not found much yet.. Illus was the very first adecuate planet found and the Belters raced to it right away in the noses of UNN , MCRN and the OPA navy before any formal agreement could been done.
Ah when the series is over you read the books - or rewatch, and realise just how much of the small details you missed
Don't forget the audiobooks ; ).
When i rewatch i pick a lot of tiny small details that make straight reference to events in S5 and S6 (it helps that book 5 was released right before S1 filmed)
@@sparrowltYes, THIS! I’ve been doing a rewatch because I finally got my husband to watch it; we’re currently towards the end of season 3. All along I’ve caught so many little hints and references that I had totally forgotten by the time things occurred when I originally watched it, and it’s so exciting! (Editing to add: this is my rewatch after finally reading the books, which of course makes those things even better)
In the books the landing platform that got blow up was actually built under contract by the belter colonists for RCE, the Edward Israel's heavy shuttle (the one that blew up) couldn't land on the unprepared landscape of Ilus/New Terra. So the Belters there took RCE's contract to built it for their arrival.
RCE's contract with the UN was to explore the planet scientifically. But of course they had economical goals as well.
The more radically inclined Belters saw this as a first step to push them out and their claim on the planet (and they were not wrong), so they decided to act.
Ironically when RCE's appointed governor of New Terra died on the shuttle crash it left Murtry as chief of security as the most senior member of the expedition and therefore it's leader.
On another note, the reason Avassarala is so reluctant to let people into the new worlds is not because she fears they might die there. So one could argue she should respect their decision.
Her fear is that the protomolecule decides to destroy the Solar system again because of something that they come across on those planets.
Also at this point there aren't other colonized worlds. There's a lot of ships waiting for the blockade to be lifted and hopping to go to all this places and claim them.
When Lucia talks about the other Belters that couldn't live on the surface, that happened on Ilus to other Belter colonists that like Naomi couldn't endure living on its surface.
The books also tell us that Ilus has slightly more mass than Earth having a 1.1G average. It's days are also longer 25h if I remember correctly. So even to earthers this place is tiring and feels oppressive physically.
Remember that if you watch all 6 seasons, there are no more episodes to watch but there are still three more books to read, and they are good. Don’t skip any books because you have seen the show, though - start with book 1 (Leviathan Wakes).
that book 9 epiloge.... damn!
@@r4pids I just want to know what happens after that beer... :)
@@WalterLoggetti never thought about that...
The Expanse really does a great job of introducing a theme and weaving it gently through numerous scenes that may or may not converge, as far as plot goes, but as a sum of their parts develop the theme beautifully.
You may not have caught it, but the Sojourner that was headed for the earth detection grid, was the same one that Marcos Inaros said was scrapped when he was being tried by the OPA. This made the Belters look bad because the they said it was destroyed. There are so many little things in this show that are so easily missed.
Yep.. This is what I love love love about this series...
There is no obvious person in the wrong.. everyone has legitimate reasons for their motivations and actions. All the arguments have good points.
Yeah all characters are so well written in this show (and the books)
No bad guys for the sake of bad guys, everyone has their reason.
Or as Anderson Dawes would say:
"Good and bad, do not get distracted by that..."
I also love the way they handle relationships, Holden and Naomi have worked their way slowly to where they are now, and completely understand each other. Very little forced relationship drama for the sake of it.
Enjoying the reactions
Murtry is probably my favorite character in the show, such a great villian. Burn Gorman plays another one of my favorites: Karl Tanner from Gin Alley in Game of Thrones. Hes got a knack for playing these heartless killers.
He’s just got that type of face
Also he’s from Torchwood
The actor for Murtry is named Burn Gorman, and believe it or not despite having "that type of face" the man has got some incredible range as an actor. He starred in a very underrated show called Turn: Washington's Spies, set during the US Revolutionary War, and no kidding he made me weep during a few tender-hearted moments on that show. It's a great series, it ended in four seasons without getting canceled, and I'd love to see your reaction, or anyone's for that matter. The acting and writing were fantastic, it deserves a lot more love.
Your analysis and questions each episode have me jumping up and down with excitement, since I know what's coming and what the answers will be. No spoilers from me though, not even a vague hint!
Not really related to the reaction itself, but it's a very early morning there when you post your expanse reaction, I watch it as I start my day and it brings my mood up every time, I just know my day will be good :)
AWWW Thank you!!!!
I live a kilometer from where Chrisjen and Nancy had their debate ;) It was nice to see that my house is still there in the future ;) hehe
Oh wow!!!
Thank you for your joyful and wonderful reviews.
Also the suicide prevention message was very appreciated. This time of year is rough on me. It meant a lot to see you put that out there.
Everyone watching the show turns on Murtry, its just a matter of which episode you get to before you make up your mind. The mask slips more and more after he hunts down the belters who killed his crew.
Burn Gorman does a fantastic job of selling his character! I recommend everyone watch Pacific Rim as a pallet cleanser afterwards so you don't hate the actor :) czcams.com/video/I7Nha64oDWk/video.html
I think the barometer is how 'everyone' would react if it was Holden's ship arriving before the RCE and getting blown apart by the OPA belters, since Holden is also an Earther and his ship has also been sent by the UN to the planet, with Holden and Amos being the sole survivors of the crew, and Amos, who is also something of a killer, being the one to hunt down and shoot all the people responsible and anyone perceived as the slightest threat to Holden. Amos was certainly content to play judge, jury and executioner with Dr.Strickland.
For me, turning on Murtry only came toward the end of the season, for reasons that without spoilers, those who already watched would know. But that's mostly an indictment of Murtry's motivations and temperament moreso than the act of hunting down belters who killed his crew itself.
@@NigoranoWow, yes, that’s the first time I’ve seen anyone else think/say the same thing as me about the RCE/Murtry. If it had been the Roci, with a bunch of our crew killed and Amos on the ground doing the shooting, viewers would be enraged at the Ilus settlers and cheer when Amos killed them. They somehow don’t realize that 🤷🏼♀️
The small part where it shows Copenhagen, Denmark in this episode freaks me out a bit as a Dane haha. The ocean rising would take out a large portion of my country, and due to how accurate they made it look (the buildings are exactly where you would expect them to), it kinda just showcases just how much it would affect us.
Anyway you're def my favorite reactor, love watching this series again through these videos. It's such a good show. (Also, what does your necklace represent? It looks like some chemistry thing, and my curiosity won't let it go before I figure it out haha)
It's a molecule (some chemistry thing) of caffeine, if I remember correctly.
In case you ever see this, I just wanted to let you know how much you've helped me. I am going through chemo and refrained from watching these reactions until now because I knew I'd need this distraction and because I love your channel and this show so much. Sometimes I love the way you connect the dots, sometimes I want throw my pillow through the screen at your head ninja-star-style, but I have remained very thankful and entertained in both cases. I really can't afford to join your Patreon until I get some certainty about the future, but I know what I owe you. You've given me some real comfort in a dark time. So, thanks and keep it coming! I wish you all the success you so clearly deserve.
33:36 thank you, Angela and Xavier. Mental health is such a vital thing too many neglect.
“You’re safe here.”
LoL.
Her nxt scene: she dying.
….end of the episode statement “This show gets me SO. RILED. UP!!!” 😂
Everyone who loves this show has been there! 😁 - & after - Recognizing every group has valid arguments to justify their positions / actions is a key thing that a lot of people miss - both in this show & in real life. Many times you can’t even begin solve a problem until you can acknowledge that “the other guys” might have good reasons for doing what they did… even if it what they did was wrong.
Zander: save the predictions etc. from the opening monologue - may need to revisit some of those In the future…. (Being as vague as I can 😉)
- & Kudos on placing the suicide prevention info right in the reaction 👍🏻
I think Lucia was already feeling huge guilt about the people killed in the shuttle crash- then finding out her daughter was missing and Jacobs (understandable) anger & frustration at her actions just overwhelmed her in the moment and the only option she could see was ending her life…. Naomi’s gentle “There is a path from where you are to where I am” statement was beautiful -
How many lives could be saved if more people who had tried committing suicide, or were thinking about trying heard that kind of a message?
23:43 Stormtrooper class shooting skills there, from both sides.
Continue to LOVE the reactions, keep 'em coming! I won't repeat what I say every time, but so many great small subtle call outs from the past and future - love this show!
Kat and Sony really loved the Denmark scene. :) Gao pretends she didn't displace anyone by hiring a couple other candidates, but the fact is she jumped ahead of everyone else by bribes used by her family. So now if everyone were to do what she did, the only people to get ahead in the lottery would be those who have money to buy a jump in line. Is the system broken? Yes. But her cheating it only breaks it more.
Excellent as always.
it has been interesting to see your changing perspectives over the series. In particular you've gone from "protomolecule is bad, nuke it", to "meh", and have started to think like Holden.
Regarding Mars and the OPA, they're not allies, the OPA is stealing high tech equipment.The question you need to ask is "why".
The Queen of the eye roll! 😂 Love your eye roll 💙
The Protomolecule on the Roci is what powers Proto-Miller. Proto-Miller is the Ring-building Protomolecule, not the Protomolecule that runs the Ring Sphere or the that on Illus. They are separate devices that can communicate, but they have separate purposes. The Ring Building Protomolecule is still trying to carry out its final task of its program, which is to report to its builders its Builders. That's Proto-Miller's entire goal.
Naomi told Holden, "Go be you." Then when Wei asked what Holden was doing, Amos answered, "Being him."
Nancy Gow mentioned that they'd sent out hundreds of probes to various Protomolecule planets without finding any dangers. Avasarala should have been willing to establish a reasonable plan to continue scientific investigation of the Ring planets with the idea of establishing colonies eventually. Politically, she should have set out a plan of progress toward eventual colonization, even if she kept the progress slow. Instead, she's trying to keep the political and social situation of Earth, Mars, and the Belt exactly as it has been for a century, despite the draw of the Ring planets upon everyone.
We know there were no innocent civilians on the Sojourner when Avasarala destroyed it because know that Marco had captured the Sojourner and spaced all its inhabitants.
Great insight about the Sojourner! As always your comments are enlightening! Thanks!
A correction on your intro. Not many belters have gone through other rings. Just a few here and there as they bum-rushed the blockade. We've only heard about the belters on Ilus having problems adjusting to gravity. We haven't heard anything about belters who might have gone through other rings. As it is, Mars and Earth have barely started sending survey ships through the other rings.
Nobody who seeks the highest possible position of power should be given the benefit of the doubt where their intentions are concerned. All decisions they make are to reach their goal. All actions taken are either taken for the express purpose of achieving their goals, or are analyzed for the best way to take advantage of them.
I started and finished all the seasons while season 6 was airing and didn't realize it was only 6 episodes. I finished episode 6 and was forward to watching with everyone and realized it was over. Needless to say that was a terrible realization so I went out and immediately bought books 7, 8, and 9. There's some differences but nothing to difficult to piece together.
Highly recommend the first 6 at some point. Besides the differences, some scenes and ideas are better in the books though the show does a lot of things better too
@@vorpalrobot I've actually started a reread starting with the 1st book and actually just finished the 1st last night...looking forward to the rest!
I’m with your boss. I finished watching with Amazon on my birthday earlier this year with whiskey and my brother at midnight.
So I read the books. 6&7 went real slow. Then I burnt thru 8 in 3 weeks. Urgent eye op not withstanding in October, I wrapped up book 9 by November.
That’s left me with the Novellas. 4 more left and I’m dragging my heels. Don’t want it to end
Flying ninja stars,
Spin-ey death horns,
Island sized fusion reactors exploding,
How could it get worse?!?
The Expanse "hold my beer..."
🤣🤣🤣
There's honestly nothing to defend about Murtry. Yes (SOME) Belters caused chaos, but like Amos said he was just looking for an excuse to do violence. Murtry is simply a killer on a power trip. His only interest is keeping his people alive, couldn't give less of a shit about the Belters.
That last sentence works for a lot of characters in this series, sadly.
There are no good or bad factions in this... i mean the closest are the belters.
Their goals are ok, but terrorism and murder are always the wrong option ^^
Clever lady: you can't just blow that up
Holden: watch me
Clever lady: something is powering it, what if that blows up too?
Holden: we'll deal with it
...
Island: explodes
Holden: shocked Pikachu face
Christian liked being in the shadows the woman behind the throne. She’s finding sitting on it much harder.
49:10 You know that's practically Nancy's sales pitch to the letter right?
She's solid also on her point that Chrisjen is where she is in large part just because of who her father was.
Avasarala came from a long lineage of people who served on those positions on the goberment who are never elected but hold enormous power behind the scenes.. actually while she is extremelly inteligent and good at what she does Nancy is right that she is "political aristocracy"
Also not sure how aware you are about it, but the actor for Amos does a podcast with one of the writers from the show called Ty and That Guy.
I think you would really like it, they go in depth talking about the whole series.
Huge spoilers, though.
@@kirkdarling4120 Big honkin' ones!
First… The partially unsuccessful suppression of “the feels” (33:06) and the adorable, but warranted, punch/noise of frustration (35:47), are just two examples of why I love watching your reaction videos. Like your boss, I have finished this show, but I am able to watch it again (for the first time) through your eyes. Thank you for making and sharing these videos.
Second… Thank you. Just… thank you. The fact that you paused the video after a particularly difficult scene to share some mental health resources was amazing. The fact that you did so silently, also speaks volumes. I feel that I should add am “I’m Sorry” to my thanks, but I could be reading things incorrectly. Either way, thank you!
Amos was always a badass. Holden has recently proved that he a badass too, but a righteous badass, that we would follow through the gates of Hell.
Thank you for adding the suicide help, on the 14th of December this year a family friend took his own life after years of mental and physical abuse from his wife (Leaves behind 2 daughters, a son and a grandson who's birthday is the day he took his life)... He was the most happy and giggly person I've ever known, always willing to help and give the shirt off his back to anyone in need, he tried asking for help and wanted out but in the end the torment won. I would give years of my life just to have 1 day with him again and hear him giggle, such a good man, gone too soon.
That eyeroll when Murtry was playing victim was epic!
Amazon should take some RoP money and make more seasons
24:50 Yup! It is! ..looks wrong even after 60 feet+ of water!
To be fair to Naomi (re: falling for Marco's schtick), she was only 16 at the time.
But, Marco is indeed incredibly charismatic and very convincing with his oratorical gifts.
When Lucia said “but you were tricked” Naomi replied “I chose not to see what kind of a man my lover was until it was too late” she accepted part of the blame for ignoring the (I’m guessing many) obvious warning signs about Marco’s true intentions…. Things that she only could see after getting away from him.
Like Ashford sarcastically said - “he has that…gift”
Your boss might like the 2 remake seasons of V or the new Battlestar Galactica if he hasn't seen it. There's also shows like Black Sails, The Last kingdom, Marco Polo, Vikings, Texas Rising, Revolution, and Altered Carbon... a Few off a list I'm making.
5 am, cant sleep because sick. This is a nice treat😶
Get better 🖤
Introduce a tiny subtle change in a thought process. Raises the tiniest glimmer of of a doubt in a solid perspective.
Introduce enough of these into people's thought process, creates a bit more doubt to be exploited.
Then present your case taking advantage of those hints and wriggle that doubt out of the shadows.
This is what Marco exploits with words.
Murtry (Burn Gorman actor) is very good at seeming untrustworthy, dislikeable, When he's on your side (Torchwood), and when he's not (Game of Thrones)
Could you turn up the volume on the Expanse? And slap Amos's manly mug next to Scar Jo and Old Ben?
the good thing about this saga is that whatever they continue the series or not at least we got the 3 last books for an ending if one wants to continue the history.. and seeing how they sticked to the books to this point (S6) its a fairly safe bet that they would go that way or very close too.
I'm with you on the geology stuff. I love learning about it, but I don't think there's any related job that I would want to do.
Chrisjen would 100% turn to Bobbie for help if a situation arose that she thought she could be of use. She wanted her to come back to Earth and work for her so bad. Hell, I think she would have let her live in her house while she was getting on her feet if she had taken her up on the offer. As for Bobbie, I don't think she'd call Chrisjen unless things were real bad or way the hell above her pay grade. A little bit of that I think is pride, but I think it's mostly that Bobbie tends to get herself into the kind of trouble you punch your way out of and Chrisjen isn't super useful there. And there's also her being a Marine and calling Chrisjen would basically be going straight to the top of the chain of command which is generally not a good idea in the military.
You've talked like Ilus is special for the belters a couple of times. I think you fundamentally misunderstood something said earlier in the season.
Every single belter that wants to live on a planet with earth like gravity has to undergo the therapy Naomi did, and like with Naomi, it isn't 100% successful. We know now that Naomi will never be able to survive in earthlike gravity. That's why she was so desperate to tough it out. Once she admitted defeat that was it, forever, including any trips to Earth with Holden.
The belters that failed the treatment at Ilus are on their ship and can never leave space. There is nothing special about Ilus that makes it easier for belters to survive there.
Ilus was selected for its mineral wealth. The belters there are miners. They intend to establish trade with Sol.
@@putinscat1208 I'm not sure I can answer this spoiler free.
I mean they brought mining gear...
@@michaelkreitzer1369 That doesn't mean anything. Belters had been mining the belt since long before the ring gates opened. Lots of them just have mining gear already on their ships because of that.
If you are going to add another show, I nominate Stargate SG-1.
I love Stargate, but I would rather see Babylon 5 first as that is much closer storytelling to The Expanse.
Stargate Universe is the best Stargate
Came too late to make any unique observations but I'll happily feed the algorithm for ya.
Thank you!
I love that there's not really any Black Hats or White Hats in this show. (OK, Murtry is pretty despicable, but he's not "The Villain". Just a psychopath with too much authority.)
The characters are people. They each carry ideas and opinions founded on their experiences. When they speak from those experiences it's possible to see the logic in their statements - from their points of view.
What's going on with RCE lady's infected injury? I haven't seen anything past this episode yet but it seems odd to bring it to our attention unless it's leading somewhere.
The planet just nuked itself. That's probably gonna be fine.
These Murtry eye rolls are ~ k i l l i n g ~ me 🤣
Ever the balancing act, managing risk and providing for freedom. If only self-interest
didn't play such a large part. Thus the need for trust, thus the need for . . .
Gov. jobs are such fun.
Loved your analysis of the dilemma faced by the Belters, they really have nowhere else to go. However, I don't think Ilus/New Terra is unique in terms of being habitable. Belters' problems with planetary gravity and bone density drugs still exist there. The stubborn colonists Lucia said wound up in recyclers weren't on other planets, they were on Ilus too. It wasn't special in the sense of the only planet where they could survive, it was special because lithium was a valuable resource. There might be thousands of other worlds with even better conditions for humans and Belters in particular (lower gravity, more temperate climate etc) but we don't know because Averserala is unwilling to roll the dice by allowing unrestricted access to 1300 new systems where colonists might run into the Protomolecule or something even worse. This group of Belters is simply the lucky one who ran the blockade and survived.
As for Murdery Murtry, yeah... If you're feeling conflicted about him, just give him time to demonstrate what a wonderful human being he is. HAH!! Looking forward to the next reaction!
In the books, it is hypothesized that what the Edward Israel had detected were actually some kind of sub-surface fusion powerplants and that is what exploded on the other side of the planet.
They did a great job casting this show but the cast decision adds not much to the story already written. Marco is a beautiful man but that is solely the actors quality. The story is his conviction to the OPA that attracted Naomi. I think we tend to get so lost in the visual beauty of actors and we miss the story. Wes is doing such a great job with Amos but it's his conviction to the role more than the rugged good looks that is important. Your leaning on looks reminds me of how shocked people are with RR Martin's visual interpretation of his GoT characters and the actors that portrayed them. The difference changed people feel of the character
14:17 Welcome to our world. The Fandom is sad there is no more to watch, so we watch You watching so we can relive Your joy of the Expanse.
Wait wait wait, Nancy Gao when responding to the question "how would you protect Earth from another Eros incident," Nancy straight up dodged the question. That was actually a TERRIBLE response, because it was an obvious pivot that would've rightfully been torn to shreds. Play back what she said, and try to pick out what her strategy for preventing another protomolecule attack would be. She used a few dozen words to say "we shouldn't be afraid of alien technology." Avasarala's answer may have only been seven words, but at least her answer was an answer to the question being asked.
The colonists and RCE are making one basic mistake, which is that with the alien structures acting up, the power they're fighting over just doesn't exist. The protomolecule has all the power.
I felt like your boss.
What do you think Amos would have done if they had shot down the Roci and killed everyone but Amos?
I don’t know because that didn’t happen
@@funnylilgalreacts I think he woulda killed a bunch of people in a noble revenge mission.
We didn't even get to see any of the people who died. Did Murtry have a lover? Someone he went through a difficult time with maybe and relied on for emotional support? Someone who saved his life? There's a huge matter of portrayal going on here.
imo if the Roci gets shot down and Amos survives the results are quite similar.
That is… actually a very good point. Yeah, if Amos experienced the loss of his people in that kind of incident, it would probably turn out even bloodier
But that’s not the way it went, and I don’t live in the world of “what about isms”
@@funnylilgalreacts That's fine, but I do! I find it interesting, I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, its an opinion. Clearly we're supposed to hate Murtry, and alot of what we're shown we're shown because he's the bad guy, but when you strip it down there's no difference between what he's doing and what could look like a noble revenge mission if it was shown in a different light.
I think they chose such a hateable looking guy for a reason.
yeah so everything Murtry did until now, was the right thing. He hasn't hurt a single innocent person...
With this episode however, not even a "Devil's advocate" like myself can justify his actions...
f*ck Murtry ;P
Not a spoiler, just refreshing your memory - about the Soujourner, remember in S4E1, a bunch of people floating in space going through the Ring?
No, I remember the Sojourner.
@@funnylilgalreacts Ok, i got the wrong impression on your post reaction comments.
It is *not okay* that there is no more to watch.
I'm halfway through the eighth book and, so far, that final trilogy is just *great* .
A couple of additional points:
Firstly, corporations have no existence except in law.
Yes, any number of people can create business partnerships, but nobody else has any obligation to recognize the legitimacy of those partnerships.
So, were you and I to do a deal (for instance) and you wound up owing me money, I could come after you *and everything you own* in order to get the money owed, regardless of any partnerships you may have made.
That is, unless, the law states that a corporation can do some of the same things as an individual -- including conduct business and own property -- and therefore counts as a *legally* separate entity from its owners.
That's what corporate law is about -- it creates a "veil" between the corporation's finances and the personal finances of the owners, so people willingly take more risks which -- when they work out -- expand the economy and employ more people.
But, that means corporations have no existence except as creations of law, and therefore the charter held by Murtry's employer also has no credibility, except as a legal document.
So, Murtry has two choices:
Firstly, he can recognize that since his charter only has validity under the rule of law -- specifically UN law -- then he's obliged to obey *all* of the UN laws, at all times.
I'm fairly certain that UN law doesn't permit extra-judicial murder, in which case Murtry needs to get arrested and go to trial where, if convicted, he goes to go to jail.
Secondly, Murtry can decide that Illus exists beyond the boundaries of UN law, in which case his charter isn't worth the paper it's written on or the electrons in the file.
In that case, Illus qualifies as existing in a "state of nature," in which the rights of each individual (or group) is exactly the same as every other individual (or group), and they may exercise those rights *without limits* , to guarantee their survival and prosperity.
In the second case, the Belters had every right to blow the landing shuttle to hell, just as they have just as much right to the resources of the planet as Murtry and his group, and every right to protect their interests -- unconstrained by law.
Instead, Murtry wants to claim the charter gives his employer (and, by extension, him as its senior surviving agent) legal rights to the planet, but at the same time he wants to ignore any part of UN law he finds inconvenient.
And that's b*s*t.
Finally, the corporation meant to force an accommodation, right away.
There's an entire planet to land on, so why would they choose to land using the facilities built by the Belters?
The Roscinante certainly had no difficulty finding a place to land.
Why would the corporate team land anywhere *near* the Belters?
They didn't need access to the settlement built by the Belters to do their work -- it just made it easier for them to piggy-back off the work the Belters already did.
Now, in the books, you learn the head of the project meant to figure out a way for the company group and the Belter group to live together, more or less amicably.
He also meant for Dr. Okoye to monitor how their biology interacted with the alien environment, so as to more quickly learn about local hazards.
So, a much more political guy, and more ethical, but hardly a saint.
Murtry, on the other hand, is exactly what Amos called him -- a killer with a flair for coming up with plausible-sounding justifications.
So my read on Lucias attempt to "you know what" was that she was actually incredibly freaked out by the news her daughter was missing. And she took Marty's threat against her family to heart. So what could she do? The Roci crew werent going to let her hand herself over to Morty. But if she gives Marty what he wants, he won't have any reason to hurt her daughter. To my eyes that how the scene when she was alone in her room bleeding out was acted.
Whoa whoa Beltalowda!!
Ty Frank ( Co Auther and Writer on the show) once said that the fanbase of The Expanse are very intelligent, well above the average viewers! I include you as one of those! But you need to be careful! You're post comments helped my worries a little but you seem to be getting caught up in the whole good guy and bad guy thing! Good and bad... don't let that confuse you. Also seeing someone as underdog doesn't make them the good guy! Just saying!
I wished someone would make a compilation of all of Naomi's speeches and monologs! There are so many deep meaningful things buried within them! Only after rewatching I've come to realize this! Seeing them now brings me to tears 😢
As you mentioned that there are valid points coming from every where! All I can do is quote a few moments that have already been said. " We came all this way. So far out into the darkness. Why couldn't we have brought more light?" " The stars are better of without us!" " We're all in this together or we're all lost!"
Looking forward to the next one!
leave it to a dentist to remember that "share a toothbrush" line from way back in season 1
Yeah, she's great. I think she wants to lay some cable with Amos.
I love the "Go be you/being him" with Naomi/Amos in this episode - Perfectly sums up the relationships Holden has with both of them, with just two comments.
** *If there is somebody in your life/circle that you haven't seen/heard from in a while: Give them a call/send a short vid & see how they are doing. Never hurts to check.* **
The OPA are basically Space Hamas.
It was so funny when you said you hoped Filip wasn't just another Diogo 🤣 My first thought was, "picture an even more pathetic and incompetent version pf Diogo.. then you'd have Filip Inaros" 🤣
It's not just the UN, it's also Mars and The Belt who signed a treaty to enforce a ring blockade, so the belters on Ilus (or New Terra) are acting against *every* government, not just Earth. That's why the corporation Murtry is working for has all the legal rights to ask for them to leave. That planet is theirs as far as the power of the law goes. You can say they don't own every planet in the sky but then again what defines who owns what? Which can lead to a whole debate on how do you enforce laws and property. And the answer is a simple one and has been like this since the dawn on man: violence. You can enforce laws and property because you have the means to defend your claim. In modern societies we people delegated the use of violence to our governments which in turn provide police and military to enforce the rule of law. Someone steals something from you? You go to the police and the police is authorized to use violence. Back in the day? Attila showed up at your doors you stuck him with a spear or he'd take your stuff. No police to call. In the past, and in a law-less situation like this one (basically, space far-west) who has the biggest stick rules. Is it fair or right? Probably not but that's the way it has always been and likely the way it will always be.
Murtry is not wrong, tho: it's the belters that blew up a shuttle full of scientists. RCE's was not a military operation. They drew first blood. It's in everyone rights to fight against someone or something for your own survival like the Belters are doing on Ilus, but in doing so they are going against all the powers of the system, and when you do that you need to be able to face the consequences, which, as usually is, it's the use of violence.
We are not seeing Dawes because the actor had other commitments bigger rolls in 2 other shows.
Murtry is a dick, but I kinda find it scary how quickly everyone forgets that the Belters did attack first, killing 23 people, most of them scientists who just wanted to explore the planet and had no intentions of taking things away from them.
I see it as the Belters protecting their home. There’s no reason for RCE to land there other than to take the lithium or tell the Belters they messed up the ecosystem and they need to leave. And THEN take their lithium. There’s a whole planet to land on, no need to use the Belters platform.
It was to intimidate and then conquer and suppress the Belters. I’d protect my home too.
@@funnylilgalreacts Knowing Murtry and the rest of the plot, I agree, but the Belters had no way of knowing this. Maybe this is a fault on the writers' part, but a planet is really big. We humans have mined less than 0.3% of the raw materials in the earth's crust, and we have been at it for centuries. there is simply no way a planet full of lithium is not gonna be enough for both RCE and the belters. They could easily invite 20 other mining companies and still have way more lithium than anyone could ever sell.
And yes, I'd wanna protect my home as well. But that doesn't mean I should be justified in shooting innocent people just in case.
No, "the Belters" did not attack anyone. A small handful of extremists did.
I find it even more scary how quickly some people stop to differentiate.
Also, a crime doesn't legitimate more crimes.
@@madux42 "the Belters" was an abbreviation. As someone whose favorite character is Ashford, I'm aware. Tho it's funny that it's usually "the belters" who generalize that way ;)
I'm team Murty all the way, until the day i die, he is NOT the villain
8:23 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
A couple hundred megaton detonation at the bottom of the ocean will ruin your day
Marco is wayyyy too damn fine as well though and that combined with his way with words; yeahhhh.
Go right through for MSU!
Murtry is an amazing villain... because in many ways he's right but it's his racism that's just unimaginably gross.
Plan A was to deny access.
It's amazing how much the human body, even belter bones, can handle, but one wrong knock tot the head and down you go.
Sending scientists makes sense, but there should be no corporate interests going through the ring if civilians hoping to colonize worlds are denied.
Well we know how she'd answer the standard trolley problem
RCE can't mine the place if it's going all industrial site X Eros!
The fact that it takes a whole torpedo to break them after this long is a testament to their build quality.
Lithium is chump change compared to xenotech artefacts.
They should pay, but in a court of law, and she did to avoid killing, then to minimize the casualties inflicted by her friends.
Clearly you're missing the point about the cycle of violence.
The investigator wanted a ride, now he's flipping switches. So yes, it's because the Rocinante carried the live blue goo through to this system.
The Netherlands already have a lot of land below sea level, so imagine what disastrous climate change does to them.
1300 systems that could be hiding all manner of blue goo nastiness. Mind you, leasing charters to corpos is also grossly premature, but there shouldn't be colony ships waiting by the ring. Tell them to park there asses at home and get scientists to look for danger.
The Investigator is simple and complex, like Prax talked about. Simple in that it can't take no for an answer. Complex in that it will use every last thing in the tool box and the armory trying to get a response.
2 billion year old reactor just failed spectacularly.
The books go on from where the show ended. And there's still talk of the show continuing at some point. The book ending was good, it felt right the way it was ended. As for the show and everyone having a point, couldn't agree more. That's one of the things I love about the Expanse, it's the West Wing style political drama (minus the word play and banter) wearing a Sci Fi disguise... albeit a very good sci fi disguise. But every faction has valid points of view and there's multiple valid points within each faction that are at odds with each other.
I will tell you this in your intro you named people who will survive until the end of season 6.
I don't think that Naomi was as strong when she was with Marco. She's smart but was totally under his charm and charisma. Leaving Marco and Filip behind was the start of her becoming the woman she is now.
Just a simple little space show. Just sit back and relax.
Oh you are watching the Expanse? When was your last therapy session?
😂😂 right?!
no more to watch, but plenty of books to read
Oh, come on! Murtry knifed old man Mormont and drank wine from his skull, then he tried to knife John Snow. Burn Gorman always plays the bad guy. Or at least Gorman is always the no nonsense killer.
He’s a little too good at it 👀
You’re right it’s about choices. The tricky thing is when someone’s choice is to, directly or indirectly, to take away someone else’s choice. Like, what if the majority in a democracy voted to abolish democracy? There’s no happy ending. Or ending in general, the world(s) keep spinning. To paraphrase Homer Simpson: Politics, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems.
Note: Nancy’s policies would also impact Mars and the Belt; Earth has _billions_ of people, orders of magnitude more than Mars and the Belt combined. If she’s gung-ho about colonizing, she’d put Earth first (it’d be her duty) and likely favor the RCE’s side on worlds like Illus. Mars and the Belt would likely end up being much worse off, even if they tried to colonize as much as possible. The debate is presented as local to Earth, Gao vs Chrisjen, but the effects aren’t local and neither side is talking about that. Not that I’d expect them to, but still. Their choices would, directly or indirectly, impact others.
Another note: interesting how the UN has both the social-democratic idea of -universal basic income- Basic Assistance (see comments below), and the more capitalist American Dream notion of “work hard, and you’ll make it big”. And neither seems to be working real well. The former is subsistence, and the latter isn’t true, since it’s pure dumb luck or nepotism. Mars’ more military-totalitarian system seems to be failing too. The Belters almost seem better of, but that’s because they haven’t had much to lose.
@@ferchrissakes Based on how it's portrayed in the books, all of the demsoc ideas the UN put into place were done so well after it was too late to course correct both in terms of industrial automation removing jobs, and climate change ruining the environment. Corporations get supermegataxed to fund Basic Assistance as a result, when a great many of the problems the UN currently faces could have been averted if these ideas had been put into place decades ago.
Ideally, technology should lead us to a society where no one HAS to work and still live comfortably, and people are free to pursue whatever interests them (including science AND art), but in the UN's situation, it became a necessity to avoid mass starvation.
@@zachgaskins3731 I agree wholeheartedly. Especially that something like Basic/UBI as a last-ditch bandaid on a fundamentally more broken system likely won’t solve much. Now, if, as you say, it’d been implemented earlier as an investment - one with longterm benefits - then that’d be great. But like most such longer-term investments (education, healthcare, societal and environmental soundness) it’s hard to sell in most political climates, sadly.
What struck me was the very uneasy marriage of too-late socdem ideas and false-from-the-start individualist promises of success. Either approach exists as an admission that the other doesn’t quite work. The term sh*t sandwich comes to mind.
Thanks for the book insights. Only ever read the first one myself, and forgot about it until they got to Eros in the show 😛. I know, I know, I’m a fake fan, don’t tell anyone
@@ferchrissakes Mars' situation is a combination of a war they no longer have to fight, and a world they may no longer require to be terraformed.
If the only things your planned economy-state were designed to do become irrelevant at best and a complete waste of time at worst - when the dream has died, what are you left with?
A lot of tech and weaponry. And an large percentage of your population being military, are now fundamentally no more loyal than ronin. It's no wonder everyone's fencing stolen arms and turning a blind eye, and even dealing with the OPA.
@@ferchrissakes It is important to distinguish between BA and UBI here, though; BA is just a fully-developed welfare system that encompasses the entire world and includes food, clothing, housing, and healthcare, *but no spending money*. You lose it the moment you become gainfully employed by the system, but regain it if you quit/are fired. UBI theoretically applies to everyone regardless of need, which would then shift the demand for greater income over to those willing to work for it, and the incentivization of labor to the companies, not desperation for life.
One thing the show might confuse people about is the sequence from Season 2 where Bobbie visits a slum; this is most likely a "gray market", which exchanges legal goods for barter/non-backed currency so that those on Basic can have things Basic does not grant them with its vouchers. It may also reflect people who are "undocumented" - those either born illegally (without a license) who cannot get Basic Assistance, or who deliberately waive Basic Assistance out of some desire for personal privacy. This is the part of Earther life that Amos probably knows all too well - the most stable employment one is likely to find outside the system is crime.
I find your grey area on suicide confusing.
Lucia's would be a selfish easy way out... but giving herself up for extra legal execution is the best thing despite both being choosing death. Murry doesn't care how she dies, he just wants her dead.
Naomi doing the same would have been understandable... and the belters making the choice to stay on the planet despite knowing it would almost definitely mean death is their prerogative.
I have my own thoughts on suicide, but I feel like your distinctions have more to do with how you feel about the characters than whether they choose to die.
That's all, continue to look forward to your Expanse reactions. Wish I watched or cared about any of the other shows you do. Maybe someday. I'd still suggest The Last Kingdom.
100% based on how I feel about the characters.
Murtry isn't the only murderer. The belters killed 23 earthers and tried to kill them all.
I've seen at least one reactor ugly cry when they finished the series :(
😭😭😭that’s gonna be me
Not saying what my personal opinion is, But yes people have a right to decide for themselves, But ( And it's a BIG but ) What happens if the small group wakes something up? Something that's incredibly powerful and hostile, And that something goes on to destroy every last human in the universe, What would that say about the right to decide for all the dead, Dead that did not get to decide for themselves, That decision was made for them by the small minority group. It's a very tricky question of the good of the one over the good of all 🖖🤨
Now I want to watch Alien again.