Let's Discuss: Time Travel
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 05. 2021
- Don't forget to check out Book of the Month: www.bookofthemonth.com/?...
And use the promo code: MAYREADS to get your first book for $9.99
WHERE TO FIND ME:
► My Patreon: / merphynapier
► Reading Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
► Instagram: / merphynapier
► E-mail: merphynapier@gmail.com - Zábava
Time travel is such a Pandora’s box for authors... or it can just be “go with it.” It largely depends on the tone for me. If I’m supposed to take your book super serious, I’ll be thinking it all through. The MCU? Eh whatever. Captain America make hammer go SLAM! So fun is priority.
You should watch Tenet.
Endgame actually has some of the most confounding and rigorous time travel physics and potential consequences for the future. KANG! It doesn’t do paradoxes. Name drops actual physics theories like the Deutsche proposition and the Möbius strip. Apart from superheroes, its biggest stretch is superhero billionaire super-engineer genius ALSO solving time travel in quantum mechanics theoretical physics overnight! Love it but man!
@@PJ-gb5hi or The Arrival. Watch it yesterday. I watched it tomorrow.
@@PJ-gb5hi I don’t get why people think Tenet is confusing! It all is pretty well explained.
@@DanielGreeneReviews I know, right? The trailer had been out for a while, and I had it about 80% figured out. About a thrid of the way into the movie, I was like... "if this happens, then this other thing happened, then that thing already happened... oh. Okay. We can go home now." XD
I always understood Prisoner of Azkabaan to be one time line. I never got the idea that there was a previous timeline before Hermione and Harry went back in time to "change" everything. It was always that way. They had always done the things they did. That's why Dumbledore knew that they had done things, and told them to go back and do them.
Same, I always saw it that way too. It's a bit of a bootstrap paradox
me too, and i always liked it exactly because it was one timeline that you can't change
Thank you, I was just about to comment this. I don't understand how Merphy explained it or where she got multiple never-ending loops from
Agreed. I actually love how it all fits together so neatly.
I actually prefer this type of time travel because the theory is self sufficient. You don't need a gigantic always-growing multiunivers to support all those possibilities.
Idk why but I always worry about the world's hard drive in that kind of story and it makes me anxious
Thank you merph for always giving the cursed child the attention it deserves 😆😆😆🤣🤣
Wait, What? it deserves no attention other than when you are roasting it.
Edit: Oh shoulda watched the video first 😅😅
This comment wins the internet. 🏆
The exact type and amount, too! Masterful 🙌
The way I've always understood the "closed loop" model is "it's already happened, therefore it's destined to happen." There were only ever 2 instances of Harry and Hermione, we were just viewing the same sequence of events from 2 different perspectives, and whatever Harry and Hermione do or don't do is bound to play into whatever they've already seen. you might have 15 instances of one character all in a room, but eventually that character will have to come back and experience the same conversation 15 times from 15 different perspectives. That's my understanding at least. Take it for what it's worth.
Closed time loops make the best stories and are the most scientifically accurate. Wish authors would go with it more often
@@eliasgibson4743 I find it funny that now we're assigning "scientific accuracy" to time travel.
@@eliasgibson4743 i like block time, it doesnt always have to be a closed time loop either, it can just be unchanging timelines.
When she said cursed child, I was like "hey! It's not even canon. Why are you counting fanfiction?" But then she said skip! KWEEN
Unfortunately JK said it is cannon, but I will continue to treat it as though it is truly cursed and not cannon
It’s officially canon but I’d say it’s an alternate timeline (ghost noises) 👻
I think the love for Harry Potter 3 was more about the Marauders than time travelling. However it was a closed loop which was nice, compared to the other book we shall not name.
Dumbledore: "I'm sorry we can't bring back your parents, Harry."
Also Dumbledore: "This time turner will be great for letting Hermione do extra homework and rescuing Buckbeak."
@@christianwalters2047 The Time Turner couldn't save Harry's parents, because they died. The time turner can't change the past.
@@MrZefmiller presumably the time turner has existed longer than Harry has. Dumbledore could have used it at the time, so to speak.
Hermione would have had a normal class load without the time turner, Buckbeaker would have died without the time turner (and Dumbledore knew it).
Saying "it wouldn't work because it didn't" is the kind of inconsistent fatalism that makes time travel not worth the effort.
@@christianwalters2047 So the reason we know that the time turner can't change the past is because the characters experience the effects of the time travel before the cause. This means it's a self consistent closed loop. Everything that Harry and Hermione did happened before they traveled to the past. This actually helps explain why no one uses the time turner to fight Voldemort or to fight Grindelwald. The time turner can only accomplish tasks that the time turner has already accomplished. Which is a little timey-whimy me to think about, but that is structurally how it works.
@@MrZefmiller I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing with you. I don't recall if all that is explicitly set out in the books, but it hardly matters -- this is exactly why time travel is such a problematic issue.
Is it ever spelled out that the time turner can only dump you into the past?
My favorite time travel rules are that you can’t change anything because you’ve already changed it, and so it’s always been that way. If you go back to change something, you’re completing a loop. It’s almost as if you were supposed to change time to begin with even though you technically didn’t change anything.
You should watch Dark on Netflix.
So Prisoner of Azkaban time travel :p
In theory, that's my least favorite type of time travel (because I want free will), but I've seen it used very well.
The closed time loop is also my favorite.
Free will still applies in this time travel. Tenet explains this very good in the inverted bullet infodump scene.
I love how the Netflix series Dark handles its time Travel. Its such a messy and clean take on the trope.
THIS!!!! I absolutely loved Dark. One of my favorite shows ever. The way they handled time travel, or more the effects of time travel, was amazing.
👍🏿
The way Merphy began the video by saying she'd talk about her experiences with time travel kind of made it sound like she was claiming that she herself is actually a time traveler. That was extremely funny to me.
absolutely stan how you just skipped over the cursed child :D
"cursed child... moving on." XD
A Connecticut Yankee in King Author's Court is another rollicking time-travel book!
I love how she didn't even bother trying to explain it😂😂😂
I love that book. One of the few good books I had to read for my APLit class
I hate that book.
It's funny in the first half and then punches you in the gut without rhyme or reason.
@@robertlewis6915 Awesome! I like it BECAUSE I like my gut being punched (figuratively). So it should come as no surprise that my favorite Shakespeare work is Othello. It's like, "OW!! But thanks, I needed to cry." Don't worry, I'm fine, I just have a thing for tragedies. Which, it is also no surprise that my favorite Star Wars movie is Rogue One.
@@alyssap9233 First time I read it was for a class too. I think... I DID do it fo a class, though I've been through it a few times that I'm not sure which one was the first. Ah, Sandy...
The way King makes the past into an antagonist in 11/22/63 is fantastic
Prisoner of Azkaban was my first real approach to the concept of time travel, and for a while I stood upon the idea that Dumbledore was conscient about the real impacts of Sirius reaching to Harry, and his feelings of protection regarding his godfather, so the main reason Hermione had permission to use the time turner was not only she could attend more classes, but that everything would eventually result in the fate of Sirius (as well as Buckbeak), requiring a time travel.
When I was little I looved the Magic Tree House series and that was my first exposure to time travel books. I still hold very good memories :')
Those books were so fun back in the day. Doubt that they hold up.
@@cybersketcher1130 Probably, just because I've grown up
Mary Pope Osbourne is still adding books to her Magic Tree House Series. I loved them as a kid and her approach to teach kids about history and mythological lore is great.
@@cheyannelencioni1389 yeees totally agree, I looved learning so many interesting things about history
@@cybersketcher1130 I've looked at a few in my adult life. They are still pretty solid. Simple, yes, but solid. At least, that's my opinion.
In Harry Potter and the PoA, it is an infinite loop, which means the time can not be changed, it was already like that in the first place.
Technically called a closed loop, not an infinite loop.
@@robertlewis6915 OK, the gist is the same though
@@Dhor16 I know, I agree with your point, just not your terminology.
@@Dhor16 I think it's because the idea of an infinite time loop is also something that occurs in time-travel fiction, Groundhog Day being the most well-known example in the West. It's where you relive the experience over and over again until you manage to break out of the loop somehow. Typically (but not always), you carry the knowledge from the previous loop into the new one.
I love the time travel in HP3. I saw it as a single closed loop. My favorite Doctor Who time travel is of course Blink, but I love Doctor Who because they have fun with the rules of time travel. The Doctor always loves being unpredictable.
Kindred sounds interesting- def need to add it to TBR
This is a time travel video so I gotta shout this out. The video has been out for an hour and this comment is already a day old. Something is afoot!
@@JCbeMe I just used my time machine (Merphy’s Patreon tier with early release videos) see you in the Shire tomorrow
I keep meaning to read Kindred because I personally loved "Wild Seed", by the same author.
The single best execution of complicated time travel is done in the Netflix series Dark. It is so fascinating and so complex, but so well done and explained. It is really bizar and will break your mind
Yes....
But.....
Spoiler:
There was a fixed rule: No free will. U can't change anything in the loop. Then at the Claudia just somehow gets an idea that she should not have and can change stuff now. I hate people living Claudia because she 'figured' it out even tho she should not be able to.
Ugh hated the ending.
@@havewissmart9602 spoiler:
.
.
.
.
I know what you mean, but a) one could argue that Claudia also never had free will either. Maybe it was always her role to bring the two timelines back together.
Or b) she had the ability to change something because most of the others were never supposed to exist, so they were just stuck in the loop. And of the few people that rightfully existed she was the only one to figure out how to get out of it.
Or c) maybe everyone in that universe could have changed things, but were too dumb and she was the only one who was smart enough.
@@legumesss spoiler
a) Except for the fact that the timeline did really change with her knowledge(Adam doesn't kill eve this time, there are three Jonas' as Adam comes back to that time, everyone vanishes etc) I think we can be sure that the ending is a new timeline altogether that Claudia created.
B) there hasn't been any indication that the people who exist only within the loop or people outside the loop are any different. They all seem have no free will. There should not be any distinction. Also Jonas is smart enough to understand the loophole Claudia gives so I don't think this is right.
C) Yes.... This is the one I will fight till my death. Claudia Stans use this argument to show she is the best. But... This world is on a loop for who knows how many times. WHY IS THIS LOOPS CLAUDIA SO MUCH SMARTER???? Were the previous loops' claudias all dumb idiots? What changed in this iteration? Why was it in this loop that the world changed. It makes zero sense. They never why there is a change this time. What is so unique.
Look I am ranting a lot. I know what prolly happened was they needed a way the break the loop for the finale, so they used Claudia who was always meant to be smarter and cooler than Adam and Eve. But in the end she is a plot device.
IT DON'T MAKE NO SENSE!!
YES. I came here to comment about Dark and I see someone has already brought it up! :) (Spoiler...)
...
The exact thing that Merphy didn't like about Harry Potter 3 are dealt with in Dark. And that's exactly why it works in Dark, in my opinion. They don't gloss over the fact of this wild endless time loop. It's a major theme. And therefore it's satisfying, and doesn't just leave you frustrated like "wait... we are expected to believe that this is how time works... is no one going to talk about the implications of this!?!" xD
I wouldn't call Dark flawless, but it's definitely my favorite time travel story ever.
I highly recommend the movie "The girl who lept through time", it's a beautiful anime movie about a girl who suddenly finds out that she can relive a day multiple times.
I love time travel no matter how it is used. Love the wibbly wobbly and fun kind, love the abstract and confusing part but I also like when it's the main plot.
One of my favourite time travel stories is the Blackout/All Clear Duology by Connie Willis. Which is also part of a bigger series but I've only read those two (so far).
It's very similar to Timeline because it's about historians from the future who find a way to travel to the past in order to study history. So instead of reading books they study history by visiting and observing it in person. I looooooved this premise. In this duology several students go on assignments to different parts of WWII in the UK and they do their thing but when it's time to return to their time, they can't. So they are stuck in WWII and not only have to survive that but also search for a way to get back home and they live in the constant fear that every minute they spend in the past they may accidently alter it. So the focus is not on the time travel but on the different characters, the different aspects of WWII they witness and the tension of the situation. What I liked the most (besides the amazing characters) were the aspects of the war the books focus on. Because it's not the big events everyone learns/knows about but mostly specific details of everyday life and the people that lived then.
Watch Steins Gate. Best time travel story ever, in my opinion
Yes! This!
Steins;Gate is awesome. I like how it displays the anguish of the protagonist because of all the problems time travel comes with.
It helps that most of the time travel is not the typical “send yourself back in time physically” kind but “go back into your body from x days ago and relive the day with that knowledge of the future”. It leaves a lot less room for plot holes. Also, Kurisu and Okabe are two of my favorite Sci-Fi characters ever.
Dark?
@@NamenIoser Dark?
Chrono Trigger is my personal favorite time travel story.
Kindred sounds kind of like Outlander. In Outlander the ability to time travel is genetic and is done by touching special circle stones. Jumps are always about 200 years so a nurse from the 1940’s is sent back to the 1700’s. The books are HUGE but sooooooo good! I bet you would like the Time Traveler’s Wife too.
Time travel when done well can be so interesting and fun, but it's very easy to do wrong as well which is why I'm always hesitant with stories involving time travel, even though I really like the concept
There’s a series I like a lot (re:zero) where the main character can return from death. Basically, every time he is killed, he comes back to life in a different timeline before he’s killed.
The cool part of it, the author can and kills every character you like many times. Every time the main character dies, you can feel his pain. Amazing series!
The stepping on a butterfly and ruining the world is from "A Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury.
A few other classic time travel books I liked are:
_The Time Machine_ by H.G. Wells
_The End of Eternity_ by Isaac Asimov
_Lest Darkness Fall_ by L. Sprague de Camp
_The Time-Traveler's Wife_ by Audrey Niffenegger
_The Anubis Gates_ by Tim Powers
_Doomsday Book_ by Connie Willis (part of a series)
_The Stars My Destination_ by Alfred Bester
_Behold the Man_ by Michael Moorcock
_The Light Brigade_ by Katherine Hurley.
I am a fan of time travel as long as it has consequences, and if it is explained why it can’t be used to just righten everything. And I definitely hate the way it was handled in the Cursed Child.
Doctor Who is my favourite show of all-time so I'm always looking out for good time travel stories. Very interested in reading Timeline.
I like it when it makes senses and isn't something that is easy.
I usually do not like time travel in books BUT the best time travel I've ever seen in fantasy is the Licanius Trilogy. You don't even know it's time travel for a while if you didn't go in knowing. it's very well handled.
The Stephen King book sounds exactly like an old episode of Twilight Zone where a guy keeps trying to go back in time to prevent tragic world events but he never succeeds because you can’t change the past. Rod Serling is the master of story telling!
I haven't read any of the books Merphy talked about, but I was reminded of that same Twilight Zone' episode. That thing actually bugs me. I actually believe time travel to be logically impossible, and I think I can see why people would write stories that way, but what is the in-world mechanism? Time-cops make sense, and there was an episode of 'Doctor Who' in which critters would eat the universe unless things were returned to normal, but why would a gun misfire just because it was pointed at Hitler?
There was another episode involving the Lincoln assassination in which Lincoln dies, but minor changes happen. but how does time know what changes are OK and which aren't? I know this reads like I'm upset, but this just bugs me.
I was reminded of a Red Dwarf episode titled "Tikka to Ride" where the Red Dwarf team goes back in time and accidentally prevents the JFK assassination, but have to then try to undo their own interference because of how it changes history for the worst. One of my favorite episodes. If you haven't seen it, I'll just say that they come up with a creation solution.
This is how you lose a time War reminded me of the movie Lake House, a romantic drama where two people communicate through the mailbox 2 years apart while living in the same house. It’s pretty good.
When you said you thought you didn't like time travel at first, you made me realize why a lot of readers, especially on the web platforms, don't even care to spare a second look. I started writing a time travel fantasy with portal magic last year and it is my favorite but all my other works on these platforms get more attention... I felt discouraged and stopped writing before the climax scene. It made me feel so much better after hearing this. :)
Doomsday Book by Connie Willis! She has several time travel books but this one lays the foundation for the rest. So so good!
"The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August" is one to check out. Its less of a sci-fi, and more of a Groundhog's Day type time travel.
As soon as I hear time travel, I’m in. I love hard hard time travel, I’m obsessed with how it could theoretically work.
The end of Harry Potter 3 is my favorite part of the entire series because of the time travel aspect
Prisoner of Azkaban is the best form of Time Travel. There was no "first" time or loop, it's only one timeline and the characters simply travelled to a different point on it; nothing can be changed because it already happened.
Nah you should watch Steins Gate. It's easily the best time travel story of all time.
Time travel does not make sense.
Timelines are either one or multiple. Loops inside the same timeline cannot logically exist. It's time, not electrical circuit.
In the ONE timeline concept (like in the Prisoner of Azkaban) a thing either happened or it didn't. Some things are, and some things are not. And you can't rerun a timeline for some absurd reason just to confirm things that have already happened. This is how timelines function: past, present, future, end of story.
The MULTIPLE timeline concept on the other hand is also ridiculous. It's like saying that everything might or might not have happened in a universe. So who cares? It's easy and cheap storytelling.
@@edessajaydso ruin the fun for everyone else, why don’t you.
Merphy you need to give Capaldi a second chance! The 12th Doctor and Clara have the deepest and most complex relationship that I've ever seen on Dr who imo. Their love for each other is as precious as it is toxic. It is so toxic and I love it so much because it felt so real and actually suited what a relationship with someone like the Doctor and living that kind of lifestyle would be like
I recommend watching netflix's Dark (2017). it's all about time travel and actually it's one of the best serieses that i've ever watched in my life.
I second this, great characters, great storylines (mind bending but great and make sense when you think about them a little), great use of time travel and you can tell that the writers knew exactly from the beginning where the story was going, how long they needed and where it would end.
TIMEY WIMEY WIBBLY WOBBLY STUFF!!! ⏱️⏱️⏱️
I really get a kick out of the Chronicles of St Mary’s series by Jodi Taylor where historians examine “history in contemporary time.” (It’s really time travel). I find the humor very fun to read. Mostly the time travel is just a tool to allow adventures, the time line can be changed but nearly everyone tries to not do that.
I love this series!
I am here for any type of time travel!! It is the one trope that I am trash for.
Time travel is one of my favorite tropes when the character goes back to a real historical moment in time, like in 11/22/63 or The Doomsday Book. I think it has a lot more to do with my love of history than the concept of time travel itself.
“You step on a butterfly, you ruin the world “ I can’t 😂😂 Merphy is too funny
@Ashleigh Hatter yup. The ending still sticks with me. There was movie but don’t remember much about it.
@Ashleigh Hatter Yes, I am aware... Is the way she says things that makes it fun 😊
Merphy!!!! You NEED to see or read “Your Name”. It’s a short manga and there’s a movie. It’s absolutely beautiful and is kind of related to your video (I won’t say too much because it’s spoilers). It’s GREAT! ❤️
By the way, I LOVE time travel when it’s done correct (with as few plot holes as possible, because it seems to be a hard thing to accomplish). Some examples are: Dark (it’s a time travel MESS, but it’s amazing), Interstellar, and the one I just recommended, Your Name :)
When I was a kid, I watched Back to the future about a million times. Until the tape got stocked in the VHS player. Then I freaked out. Haven't been into time travel ever since.
I read Kindred in a college literature class. Great book.
These past few months, I have been really obsessed with time travel stories. Also trying to make some time to dive into a good time travel series.
Really enjoyed this video. The time stamps are here for you to enjoy too. with a bit of my commentary. couldn't resist.
0:00 intro
1:07 Book of the Month (Sponsor)
Start of Discussion
2:38 Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
3:44 this is where her brain goes nuts. This is how I felt when I really thought about the story.
5:07 Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, ( why is it even here)
5:17 Doctor Who
6:36 11/23/63
8:21 This is How You Lose the Time War (very wibbly wobbly)
9:12 Timeline
10:04 Kindred. (she really is obsessed with it. )
12:38 What we have learned.
16:15 Do you like time travel in your entertainment?
17:12 outro. Let's get messier
with Merphy Napier. 💚💚
I am a little obsessed with time travel in books and movies. Many people think I hate time travel stories because I always end up picking apart what did not work or was not consistent within the bounds of the story's "rules", but I really do like the idea and keep looking for stories that use it well.
One of my favorites in the last few years was 'The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August'. It is definitely not your standard kind of time travel and I really enjoyed it for being new to me in the time travel "genre". It also managed to get me looking to read anything else by that author.
In my comment I said "big fan" but a little obsessed is more like it, thank you.
Dark is my absolute favorite, the mystery element in "1st 15 lives..." kept me hooked, in addition to the slow reveal of the mechanics and the world.
The first Fifteen lives of Harry August- soft time travel
Seven and a half deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle- hard time travel
You might like both of them?
Evelyn Hardcastle is excellent
Harry August is excellent
Oh that’s the worst book I ever read. I hate it so much. It’s so sadistic I can’t even comprehend it.
The Harry Auguste one I mean.
I love hard time travel: experiencing the authors idea of how it would work, toying with paradoxes and seeing the psychological impacts it has on the time traveler. I also like novels like Kindred and Doomsday Book were it's mostly historical fiction but realistically places a modern person into these settings, because it often creates powerful stories.
However, it can be pretty disappointing if something is sold to me as time travel and then they just go places have some whacky adventures instead of using the potential of time travel.
No one will see this, but I’m obligated to say- between this video and Brandon Sanderson lectures, I’ve been inspired to write a time heist (or at least plan one out for later) and it’s a beautiful thing
Watch DARK series on Netflix, I loved the way time travel is shown in it.
My favourite time travel story is Homestuck. You probably wouldn't like it because time travel is like... EVERYTHING in Homestuck. Everything happens the way it was always meant to, you can't fight fate, and if you try, it's because you were fated to. Anything that doesn't follow the intended timeline is erased and every little detail of the story seems to be involved in some way with time travel. I love it because it's a beautiful mess of so many layers of nonsense that all fit and eventually make sense, nearly every tiny little detail comes back in some way even if it's just for a gag, the more you think about it the more you discover, but from what you've said here, that same thing I love so much about it is probably why you wouldn't like it at all.
Check out "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. Time travel is very much a part of what is happening but I love the way it works.
I adore that book. Any recs for similar books?
@@jersy6406 Not similar but something that popped in my mind is "Toby Streams the Universe" by Maya Lassiter. Also, time travel sort of - but one of my all-time favorites - "The Anubis Gates" by Tim Powers.
@@tiantuatara Thanks :)
Literally anyone: mentions time travel
Me: *12 MONKEYS*
Was looking for this comment!! Are you a movie or show person? I love both but I've found that people seem to have preferences
@@adjoaocran I actually prefer the show, not that the movie was bad by any means but there was just something about the series. The characters, the plot twists, everything. One simply can't fit all that in a few hours. But, as you said, both are great!
I tend to prefer time travel stories that actually deal with the paradoxes in a logical way over the wibbly-wobbly approach, but the mechanics of time travel are very hard to get right. Figuring out how everything fits together in a good time travel story gives me the same feelings of satisfaction as a mystery story.
My favorite portrayal of time travel is in the Zero Escape series, it manages to create an intricate nonlinear timeline that's still logically consistent and not that hard to follow. The series actually spends a lot of time philosophizing about things like paradoxes. The story is very much about the rules of time travel and even some ethical dilemmas raised by it.
in case you're not too sensitive to spoilers: characters in this series can switch places with themselves at a different point in time so their conciousness is now inhabiting their body in the past and vice versa.
I recommend The Time Traveler's Wife. You are going to cry but very good.
I've loved time travel books ever since I read Outlander. My favorite aspect is seeing how a character's modern sensibilities clash with social norms of the past.
I really need to pick up Kindred! I've had it on my TBR forever, and it sounds amazing.
Just watched Girl Who Leapt Through Time and then Merphy uploads this.... I feel like time travel is following me around today...
I am a huge fan of Time Travel. If you read "The Man Who Folded Himself", it will blow your brain away. I literally felt like I was on some sort of weird drug high after reading it. My favorite time travel trope is the single person who keeps repeating the same day over and over, like Groundhog Day. There are a lot of these now. One of the best is Edge of Tomorrow. Other good ones are Endless, Synchronic, Resolution, Donnie Darko, Naked is funny, Happy Death Day and Happy Dearh Day 2 U are tongue in cheek funny. Source Code is also a good time travel movie. As for books, I love Time After Time, and especially like the whole Time Scout Series by Robert Asprin and Linda Evans with my favorite in that series being Wagers Of Sin. I found myself cheering out loud for the hero in that book!
Predestination. An amazing time travel movie for hard time travel fans
Harry Potter original cannon is that time travel is a closed loop. You can only change something because you changed something. So you can't go back in time and kill Voldemort (everyone's biggest gripe) because he isn't dead. If you go back and kill him, he never comes to power, so you don't know he needs to die, so you don't go back and kill him, so he DOES rise to power, so you want to kill him... It goes on forever. Which is also the reason Hermione wasn't able to go back in time and take the Cheering Charms lesson. She'd already missed it and it was acknowledged so time couldn't be rewritten. Which is why time travel is so regulated. Because you really need to understand the way it works to avoid causing a "self correction" of the time line. "Horrible things happen to Wizards who meddle with time, Harry." Basically the universe will not LET you alter a fixed event and will harm/kill you if you try.
Then comes The Cursed Abomination. This changes time travel from a closed loop to an open loop within a single universe. (Total violation of the Time Paradox causing an abundance of plot holes.) The reason the whole thing is just a jumbly mess that contradicts the original books and needs to be erased from the Potterverse.
My favourite execution of time travelling trope is definitely “life is strange”
This is so funny because I remember so many times I've asked for time-travel recommendations from you on your Instagram recommendation requests! I think I love some mystery or soft-magic to the Time Travel, but more than anything, I love experiencing history through a character's modern lens. 😊
I’m the opposite. I love when the time travel is the main plot and find it disappointing when it’s just a tool. I love the time travel concept used in HP3. Closed time loop I would call it.
I think the most clever film which shows how far people can go with time travel is 'Primer'. On first impression this film subverted me into believing it has one fixed timeline, but instead heroes of the story 'broke the symmetry' and irreparably damaged reality but more important their friendship.
If one includes the 'groundhog day' trope into time travel stuff I name 'Mother of Learning'. This book blown away my mind.
In one of my favoutite books (I think it's called Mrs. Perigrines home for children or something simillar in English), time traveling is used to make the protagonist travel to a place, where one day during WW2 is repeated over and over again, only that some special people aren't affected by it, and he is among them.
He than has to decide if he wants to stay with his family, or help the others in their mysterious world.
It's realy hard to explain the book without spoilering too much, but it's good!
Bill and Ted had the best. As long as they told themselves they had to remember to ‘leave keys here or add distraction there’ then all the sudden it would appear and you knew that later on they actually remembered to do those things, because they already happened.
I loved 11/22/63! But yes there was a tedious part towards the middle of the book. I am always attracted to time travel, but it can be done well or it goes disastrously.
Time travel is a trope that I love, no matter if it’s good or bad, it just needs to be present in the story for me to read or watch
Four epic seasons of 12 Monkeys. Your welcome!
You might be interested by the Oxford Time Travel series by Connie Willis. In this series, time travel is used as a tool by historians to better study history. Doomsday Book and To Say Nothing of the Dog are really really good.
1:05 TOP LEFT. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkabaan mysteriously disappears! It seems some time turners have survived till this day!
One of the best examples for time traveling in my opinion is All Our Wrong Todays by Elan Mastai. The science and mechanics are explained a lot, BUT in a very entertaining way that makes it soft and hard at the same time if that makes sense? Like the rules are scientifically established but the protagonist doesn't dwell on them because he is not a scientist. Plus I found the premise really interesting because here our timeline is the worse one and the protagonist comes from a sort of utopian society. Anyway, I think if you enjoy time travel this one is worth checking out.
The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrold. Classic time travel novel.
I think I agree. I haven't read very many time travel stories but I like the idea of using time travel to get somewhere. I also like the idea that time travel might not change history but could ease events into being. Maybe future people could reassure past people that some things will be alright.
Kindred is amazing!!! Glad you added it to this discussion, I haven’t read anything else like it.
I don't about time travel books but DARK really used the time travel concept very efficiently and made an outstanding show out of it !
don't know*
It's awesome when done well, but as you expressed, it's really hard to make it work. There are so many automatic paradoxes that can occur, but when you find a writer who has obviously thought their way through all the obvious traps, it can be absolutely wonderful. And I completely agree that approaching it with a looser tone as a means of conveying confusion and tension is much more effective than making it the end-all-be-all of the story, because at least for me, that just adds anxiety and confusion for the reader, rather than the characters.
I've always saw Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban as more of a time-loop kind of time travel, they don't go back into time to change things, they go back into time to make sure what already happened actually does happen. There doesn't have to be a beginning or an end to the time loop because they happen at the same time. Look at it this way, there are two Harrys and Harmonies, the ones from the present experience it as it happens, the ones from the future, perhaps they never came from the future at all, but instead they have memories of things that were about to come to pass, giving the illusion that those "memories" were from the past.
One of my favorite time travel schticks was a Star Trek novel trilogy War of the Prophets. One group was thrown 30 years in the future, but didnt want to learn anything about their future, another group was thrown 30 years in the past and had to avoid changing the past. The pople 30 years in the past had to leave a message that would be found by the other group 60 years in their future. Then POW the generator changes polarity: The group is pulled from 30 years in the future of the explosion and thrown 20 years before the explosion, and the group in the past was then thrown 20 years in the future. Then they were 10 years apart, then 5 years, then 4, then 3....then they realized that when they appear in the same time the universe will collapse. Its EXTREMELY timey wimey but actually works out perfectly in the end.
I am a schmuck for time travel. I love this trope with passion.
I really like time travel however comes because I interpret it different ways and I love that take. My favourite trilogy (Ruby Red, Sapphire Blue and Emerald Green written by Kerstin Gier) has time travel and it's simply amazing and really well developed.
I know you're not a show person, but I still think you should watch Dark on Netflix! It's 3 seasons wrapped up neatly, so very easy to commit to. It's amazing in my opinion but I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
The cursed child part had me rolling omg 😂
*The Illuminae Files* has an interesting time travel plot. The audiobook is AMAZING (full cast! amazing sound design!) but get the physical book as well, as it's multimedia.
My favourite time travel story is Time and Time Again by Ben Elton. It does an interesting thing with the mechanics of the time travel in that it's a one-way trip back to the past, because once you go back everything after the point you travelled to is basically erased from existence. The main character is trying to prevent the first world war, so a lot of good alternate history stuff for people who are into that. It also has one of the most well delivered twists I've read in a book because the reader is able to work it out before the characters based off an offhand comment. So it's a definite recommend.
There are 3 types of time travel. The majority of problems with time travel stories is when people mix up which one is being used.
1. The most commonly used (and most prone to issues) is dynamic time travel, where your actions can effect your own past (see the first Back to the Future).
2. Probably the least commonly used, and arguable of it's even time travel, is branching timelines where any change you make sends you into a new timeline where the changes you made take place (see Back to the Future Part II, Endgame, Future Man).
3. The last, most logically consistent, and most often misused is stable timelines. The universe is deterministic. Anything that you do by time travel already happened. It's not that your actions can't change things, it's that your actions already happened (see The Prisoner of Azkaban or the first 2-3 Terminator movies).
Too many things use these inconsistebtly. Like the fact that most of the examples I used here get fucked up as a franchise (see listing different Back to the Future movies separately, the later Terminator movies, the Cursed Child, the writers and directors disagreeing about how time travel works in Endgame.
I saw the TARDIS in the thumbnail so I had to come check this out. It's a shame the last couple of seasons of Doctor Who have been a little rough. 😕
I guess they aren't for everyone. I find that season 10 and 12 are two of the best in the show.
Season 11 actually wasn't bad and it was just Chris Chinbnall in Steven Moffat's shadow. Season 12 was just a mess and him trying way to hard.
*Spoilers for Season 12 those random people seeing this that for some reason haven't watched Doctor Who*
I think the Master should've been the Timeless Child, that would've been so much more interesting.
@@ellenmay491, I get why people don't like it, but I think there are more good episodes in season 12 than bad. As far as the Timeless Child goes, I always wanted pre-Hartnell doctors to be revealed. I also believe that it fixed the issues with the Brain of Morbius.
@@woozleproductions9760I agree that the specific episodes were good but it was the overall story that I didn't really like. But I think the worst mistake was killing the awesome couple in episode three. They should've at least been able to have their wedding before they died. (Can you tell I hate tragedies?)
@@ellenmay491, tragedies can be annoying sometimes!
A hard time travel online book I've read that does it beautifully but uses it as a tool is "Mother of Learning". It is a high fantasy, but with some really solid worldbuilding. The time travel is a one month loop, where everything resets at the end of the month, with two (or more) time travelers. It has a ticking clock element and a really solid magic system and is just generally my favorite book ever. I won't say any more about the time magic since its a spoiler, but its the kind of system you can rip to pieces and still see it work perfectly, the more you learn about it. You can read it for free online even though it's completed.
I hope whoever reads this has a wonderful day
The Umbrella Academy's concepts for time travel are... Pretty brilliant. I definitely recommend the show, and I'm sure the comic is great too
I'm not gonna say it's brilliant, but it's good.
I have watched it after someone recommended it to me, and I was disappointed. So I recommend against it, except for the first two episoded which are very good.
Also, the show is not really about time travel.
I like hard time travel. But it has to be interesting, explicable, and functional. It can be very hard to find time travel I enjoy.
For me time travel just has to make sense for whatever “rules” the author has put in place. But if it breaks its own rules and I catch it I get upset lol
I feel like for me there are two ways to make time travel work: either going completely off the wall "just go with it" (Doctor Who, DC's Legends of Tomorrow, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) or using it as a tool that doesn't need to be explained that much, because that's not really the point of the story. Kindred looks like it's a great example of that, but my favourite example would be Before the Coffee Gets Cold - in fact, imo BtCGC even overexplained its time travel rules a bit, hammering on the rules on multiple occasions. That aside, Kawaguchi uses it as an incredibly powerful tool to explore _loss_ in all sorts of different ways - and it works really well.
There's a famous Richard Matheson novel called Bid time return that has gone slightly forgotten but it does time traveling in a very unique way. It's about a man who falls in love with a girl in a photograph and uses self hypnosis to travel back to the XIXth century to meet her. I read it too young and didnt appreciate it enough but I always liked how orignal the time travel was in this one. I dont think it's been done like this since.
Time travel to me works in two separate ways and other "ways" subvert laws in ways that shouldn't work (but it's my objective opinion):
1. anything you do in the past affects things in such a way that what is the future is as it exists, so in a sense time travel just makes sure things happen the way they exist.
2. anything you do in the past causes you to diverge and it creates separate parallel universes. So the original universe you came from originally still exists, but now so does the other universe does too.
Timeline was made into a movie, which I've liked and seen a few times, not sure how the book compares. But timeline is very much like my first description.
You might like the Oxford Time Travel series by Connie Willis. It treats time travel as an academic pursuit.
Yes, those are great! "To Say Nothing of the Dog" is my favorite time travel book.
Check out Connie Willis’ ‘Black Out’ and ‘All Clear’
Character work, complexity and stakes of the highest order!
Also, the card game Chrononauts is a great take on time travel, you play as people from alternate timelines trying to alter history to match your reality while stealing artifacts throughout time like dinosaurs and a cure for cancer.
I understand what you're getting at "soft time travel" vs. "hard time travel." For me, the difference is if it's being used a storytelling device (a trope) versus as a central theme to explore (a concept). Some of the books definitely fall into the central theme category with interesting conceptions of time to explore: 1) time can't be changed because it's already happened (11/22/63), 2) time can be changed but that's only because those changes have also already happened (Prisoner of Azkaban), and 3) time can be changed but only in the sense that you create a different branching timeline in which you are now a part (The Cursed Child). I'm a sucker for these kinds of time travel stories.