Thoughts About Alan Watts
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
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To me, he's a gateway drug into eastern thought. He's not the most accurate guy, sure, but he pointed me to the path and he had some great quotes and insight in his own right.
Aamer hderee. In the early 70s I read. Him like crazy. Eventually I graduated to more serious Buddhism, Sri mahana ramarshi etc.
I think Alan described himself as a "spiritual entertainer" which is I think is a brilliant term for what he was.
Listening to his talks is a bit like listening to music.
Meaningful, resonant, colourful, even if it doesn't make sense intellectually all the time.
This! Love this. My thoughts exactly. I'd also call him a habitual purveyor of false dichotomies... Haha. Listen to him with that in mind and you'll notice a shit ton of em.
Alan Watts was a flawed person, but I love him. I will always think of him as my first teacher. He was able to expound on Eastern Philosophy in general in a way that opened my mind. I have listened to hours and hours of his talks and I would listen to him read the phone book. I really love his books and think they can be very helpful for anyone just beginning the path.
@@thotslayer9914 I suppose, no more than most of us, but he did have a problem with alcohol... it ended his life, and he had a reputation for liking the women, and fine things maybe a bit too much. I don't want to judge. It is what it is, but it was a problem for him and may turn some folks off. I don't see a problem for me enjoying his teaching, or thinking I might have liked him as a person. Sometimes folks want their "zen folks" to be very "zeny" and holy not human.
@@Anastasius12 They are not flaws.
@@bondye5929 Some might call dying at such an early age from alcoholism a bit of a flaw. Alan might say it was merely the leigh of his particular piece of jade. Maybe the grain of his particular piece of wood. Truth can't be found in words.
@@Anastasius12 you maybe right, Just also Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's one of the dead causes is probably alcohol. Its probably hard to tolerate some stuff. I loved and consumed alcohol very much too. I cant consume that much because I have gastritus nowadays but yeah. Just Idk everyone is flawed. Hopefully :p Also I have doubts about the ''truth'' now like i had before. Cant erase the thought this is a prison planet. Also womanizing is a cool thing. Idk man. just wanted to talk i guess.
To say ANYONE can be flawed is merely to state a concept. And concepts, as we know, have no base in the real world.
I think it was in Crooked Cucumber that this particular Watts story was conveyed: he gave a lecture to Suzuki Roshi's students while obviously very intoxicated. After which, the students said to Suzuki, 'At least we know who Alan Watts really is now." Suzuki said they had no idea who he was and that Watts was a great boddhisattva. I think what Suzuki was really saying that had it not been for Watts, Zen practice wouldn't have taken off in the West the way it did in the 60s.
That's probably true.
@@HardcoreZen,How would you possibly know? You confessed to knowing practically nothing about the man.
I appreciate this analysis. I will say Alan Watts - a flawed yet insightful person as others stated here - later said of psychedelics "When you get the message, hang up the phone." I think he was right about that and at least later in life didn't see drugs as a panacea. It is sad that he succumbed to alcoholism, though I think many great spiritual teachers are often battling some of the greatest demons within themselves in a very public way. I'd also add Alan Watts seemed to lean more towards a Taoist approach as his life went on, and his interest in Zen, as you stated in this video, was more intellectual than practical. Alan Watts was the first to get me interested in Vedanta philosophy as well as Zen, though today I am a Thelemite - incorporating elements of Vedanta and of several schools of Buddhism in my practice. I will be forever grateful for his books and lectures, though I agree that especially on a practical scale his teachings are limited and in hindsight are in many ways a product of their time.
Yeah he didn't seem to advocate constant, regular drug use and seemed to prefer working with the regular, sober mind.
As someone that battles powerful demons I can see why he drank, sober these days but its a battle .he's daughter said in an interview her father said "I like myself better with drink " .having addictions is stressful, womanising and the battle of child maintenance all very stressful through hes life .
I would say that Watts "publically battling demons" and succumbing to alcoholism in the end is just one more evidence that he was nothing but a new age "anti-sage". As Christ said, "you will know them by their fruits". Surely a true sage (as opposed to someone who has merely read some books), that is a person who has attained to ultimate knowledge and self-realization will not end as an alcoholic, but rather as a Saint. A Nicholas of Cusa, Meister Eckhart, Adi Shankara, or closer to our times, Sri Ramakrishna, did not end their lives as alcoholics but as Saints...because the true possession of quintessential knowledge cannot but lead one to Sainthood.
@@Mike-md7op Much of it depends on our own perceptions too. By their fruits... indeed! And what are the fruits of Alan Watts? I believe he led many to seek deeper and find Buddha-Dharma, Vedanta, and ultimately themselves. I don't know that I agree with the premise that a true sage cannot end as an alcoholic. For my money the flaws and the recognition that a teacher/"Saint" is not perfect is preferable to a "perfect" holy man. I see your take though and that is fair enough.
@@heressomestuffifound
I appreciate your measured response. Here is mine:
A sage is one who possesses perfect knowledge and has assimilated this knowledge. Having assimilated perfect knowledge, they themselves become perfect.
How could alcoholism be the product of perfect knowledge?
There have been many pseudo-sages in the 20th century. Westerners who picked up a few Eastern books, half-digested their contents, mixed them with various elements of decadent, anti-traditional modern Western philosophies, and then went around acting like they were sages.
Sorry to say, Watts was one of these latter pseudo-sages or pseudo-gurus.
As far as saying that you prefer someone with flaws to a "perfect" holy man, I believe this is nothing but the equalitarian bias of our times speaking through you. Someone said that modern societies "don't want great men"...and this is unfortunately true. We don't want Saints, and thus we don't get them. Perhaps the idea of a perfected Saint offends us, makes us uncomfortable, makes us feel "unequal".
But Christ said: "Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect".
He was what really got me into zen and Taoism. Favorite books of his are the watercourse way and cloud hidden, where about a unknown.
Alan's voice is so alive, I enjoy simply listening to him, sometimes I pick a lecture at random.
Know it or not Brad you’re a grandchild of Alan Watts. Watts was a pioneer in opening up to many the opaque teachings of another culture. Like you said there were only two books in the store....The academic Suzuki and Watts the guy sitting at the bar with a drink in his hand just talking about something he loved to talk about and the rest of the bar is in complete rapture and totally with him because of his charm, Shakespearean use of language and humor and the ability to bring people to the edge and look over and want more.
Sounds a little like you maybe without the whiskey.
A short life like a bolt of lightning or a long one like rolling thunder like the unknowable it is all weather.🙏
Thanks! That's nice of you to say.
Alan Watts called himself an Entertainer. He said he is not a zen teacher. He definitely was not a regular sitter either. He Is scholar, thinker and good parrot. He will not Inspire your regular practice of zazen shikantaza.
I have listened to pretty much all audio available by Watts; I have learned a lot and he really makes me think. It's easy to miss important points so I regularly listen to the material.
Alan Watts is the GOAT of what would be called modern zen. He nailed it when he said " You are the eternal energy of the universe experiencing itself."
He was a wonderful orator, no question about that.
Sounds like a perv to me
Alan Watts looked at things more from a taoists stand then from a zen perspective. He was not a big fan of zazen, he thought a natural form of meditation (he compared it to a cat sitting and enjoying the sunshine, then stopping a bit later) would be a better way for him and some people.
For me personally there were two people who helped me a great deal on my way which was always a mix of Taoism and Zen. And that were Watts and you. I found both your books at the same time and they showed me things from another perspective and helped me grasp, what couldn't really be grasped.
There are even some similarities between both of you. His book The Book (about the taboo of not knowing yourself) was very similar to what you were saying in "There is no God and he is always with you". You came to the same conclusions and had the same outlook there. That was what really brought me a huge step forward. And for this I will always be grateful to both of you.
Interesting! I've read there is no god and hes always with you, but not AW's book. Alan was a Anglican minister in his earlier years wasn't he?
I suppose it does make sense for him to have looked at the subject of Zen and God. 🙂
Watts is big in CZcams, the lectures are worth checking out 👍🏻
He was great at what he did - opening people's minds to unfamiliar religions in a compelling way. Best appreciated as a listening experience rather than reading text I think. Deeper meditative insights would have probably just confused the audience
Alan Watts has been a huge influence on many starting an exploration into Eastern thought, including me. In my opinion, his best book is "Nature, Man & Woman" . I find his views on nature as well as sex & spirituality very profound and quite possibly the best teacher in explaining duality to an audience first diving into that topic . If anything, he is an amazing speaker, and I play his lectures at night to help me fall asleep lol
Oh wow, I listen to Alan Watts at night to help me sleep too. He was such a great speaker! I think he was so instrumental in bringing eastern philosophies to the west.
The three most amazing things about Alan Watts:
1) how insightful he was - truly had a philosopher's mind
2) how eloquent he was - always spoke without notes
3) how early he was to the game - one of the very first to make Westerners aware of Eastern ideas
Exactly my thoughts... I always thought it was very sad that his alcoholism brought his life to an end. But he did a lot to bring Zen and eastern ideas to the west and I respect him immensely for that. I think he is a great beginning but a bad place to stop learning.
Thank you so much for that video Brad! I was really wanting to hear your thoughts on him.
Alan Watts personally saved me from a decade of death anxiety due to my incessant materialist/scientific dogma. His ability to convey complicated concepts in simple analogies really helped me. He also helped me eventually adhere to zen (not because of zen itself but likely because of his speech as he is known for having charisma)
And I’m glad you pointed out his one flaw though. I sensed he must’ve had one. (him not being a full practitioner of zen) because that is much more crucial. Zen is almost pure practice (Soto), as you pointed out.
I myself am planning on moving to japan with my wife in September. I have a career ahead of me in mathematics, but I hope to take up zen of some kind there. Either through volunteer work, or full on joining a monastery.
Saadghuru, a famous CZcamsr on Hindu topics (he’s probably the biggest youtuber for that right now)
Says that Zen Buddhism is something made for monks. That it requires 24/7 commitment.
Do you agree? Is zen a waste of time unless you’re fully dedicated? Or is he wrong?
I also want to hear your thoughts on the mountain monks of mount Heei. How they mediate for 9 days till the point of near death.
Sorry for all the questions lol
Dean McCrorie any amount of zazen is a good amount of zazen
Sounds a bit like "growing up" versus "waking up." Waking up can open up a lot of really cool philosophy, but you still have to deal with your shit.
For the wealth of information Watts provided concerning his interests via film, books, recordings, etc., this is about the most shallow review of his work on record.
Most opinions given on this channel about mainstream figures in spirituality are presented like this. I think he doesn't really pay much attention to big name authors or teachers. I suppose there's plenty you can find about them elsewhere anyway
He also talks about where he found ideas/authors, etc and who he met who recommended them at some point rather than the things or people themselves, haha. Ah well it's all entertainment
Watts' talk on Indras net was beautiful. The Universe is a string of jewels
EDIT: Alan Watts never spoke against the practice of Zazen and practiced it himself. He simply, along with many other Zen masters around and before his time, did not make a great fetish out of sitting. He, along with many others understood what the buddha said about walking, sitting, standing and laying and simply stated that there is much more than merely Zazen (sitting meditation). There must also be standing zen, walking zen and laying zen.
This!!!! This is basically what I came here to say, being a Watts aficionado, couldn't let the error stand, lol.
I think what most people misunderstand about Alan Watts is that even though he wrote about zen he didnt write about zen from a zen perspective. Consider Alan Watts as an eclectic philosopher or mystic rather than a buddhist, a daoist, a christian or whatever. He made a usefull synthesis which included all spiritual traditions into a way of looking and functioning in the world.
His most interesting thoughts, ideas and sayings is not that of zen. Its about how he looked at different issues from another perspective or lens, i.e. when he talks about jesus from a buddhist point of view. I would say his biggest contribution is that he took many (at that time at least) strange and foreign ideas and re-packed them into modern language and modern metaphors and talked about how the several thousand year old teachings can apply directly to this modern age.
He has a very deep understanding of eastern traditions but also a very deep understanding of western culture since he himself was a westerner and also was a christian priest, which was something that he abondoned but he still carries that understanding with him in his analyses.
At Spotify you have his words sampled in music made by a producer called Akira the Don. I highly recommend this since it is both good music and his words in it is very easily digestable.
That's interesting. Thank you.
I deliver stuff, so I'm driving all the time and at one point I had a habit of going on the pirate bay to download lectures from the teaching company and other courses to have something interesting to listen to. That's where I came across the Alan Watts lectures, and I listened to all of them and enjoyed them a lot. It's part of what got me into Buddhism. Some of it feels like 60's far-out-man drivel, but a lot of it is really good.
I ought to read his books, but I've never gotten around to it.
Alan Watts was, as you say, pretty good on the philosophical side of things, and some of his essays I found to be really evocative of the Japanese Zen atmosphere. However for the most part Watts was a prime example of the mid-20th Century Beatnik mentality in regards to Zen and existentialism. Watts also graduated from an Episcopal Seminary, so his particular type of "Angst" revolved around the typical issues of a mid-century westerner, immersed in traditional western culture / religion, and dealing with how to integrate newly discovered Asian / Buddhist cultural ideas. His perspectives are those of his generation of free thinkers. Although some of his writings are quite dated, like his "free love" essays that are totally inspired by 1960's Hippie notions (some of which are truly bizarre by today's standards), he nonetheless was quite advanced for his day, in terms of Zen and Existential philosophy....and a lot of people who came to Zen in the 1970's or 80's, were inspired by his writings.
Watts May have not done Zazen doesn’t mean he hasn’t dwelled in the unspeakable. His early works were on drugs. Later was on dwelling in the nonsymbolized world (what Zazen shoots for)
No idea how somebody can understand zen without practicing zen, zen is not philosophy. Quite opposite, zen is about dropping concepts.
“Who is it who knows there is no ego? And you must realize you see that this a problem created linguistically”
I’m reading your book “ Letters to a Dead Friend” (which is awesome by the way), and just came across a rather large quote you sited from Alan’s book “The Wisdom of Insecurity”- the one you said you didn’t read? Maybe you just read that quote only. Alan Watts was definitely the gateway for me in my 20’s. His descriptions are mind blowing, and I see similarities in your writing as well. Big fan of both of you.❤️
Alan Watts was too smart to be taken in by the belief that only Zen can enlighten you to ultimate reality because Alan Watts understood that everything is always ultimate reality as the eternal present moment therefore everything is perfect including Alan Watts, alcoholism, LSD and of course the whole infinite repeating Universe including the rational irrational belief that Zen is more important than just actually always accepting the eternal everything repeating present moment.
Hi Brad… Here are a couple of my thoughts on Alan Watts. My first exposure to Zen was “The Way of Zen” by Alan Watts back in the late 60s. A very good introduction to Zen, I think. He also gives a good description of doing zazen in this book. Over the years I have read many of his books and listened to some of his lectures. His references to LSD experiences are scant, you just happened to run into the one of two books where he talks about it.
Concerning his personal life, I gathered from his autobiography that he did zazen and an informal walking meditation quite frequently, but that meditation was just something that he did not emphasize in his books, which was unfortunate in my opinion. He sometimes referred to himself as a jnani yogi, which I think is fair in that he was particularly talented in taking one beyond / before thought via thought.
He was a very talented writer and is fun to read - I would be interested in hearing any of your future thoughts on some other books of his that you might read.
I pretty much agree with your analysis, Brad.
But, I've looked a lot more into Alan than you seem to have done and, imo, most of his stuff is like your said; really insightful.
When I listen to him it kinda surprises me that he didn't really go in for meditation. I think in his autobiography he said he preferred to do walking meditation round his garden.
Anyway, he really was an amazing orator and philosoraptor 🦖.
Its wonderful to see how popular he is even today. His lectures on youtube are killing it (in a good way).
I love his video 'a conversation with myself' on CZcams. I've watched that so many times over the years.
Bless him
It's good to get your take on it because he seems to be the first port of call for new folks finding Zen but it can be tricky to explain why he shouldn't be the last port of call. I think you've summed it up pretty nicely here.
As I understandd Alan Watts, he hasn't rejected zazen at all. He uncouraged the listeners to do so many times in his speeches...What he totally rejected was the 'zazen is hard work'-understanding of zazen what many westeners did / do have..this kind of spiritual game which is still your ego playing with you in the end. Like 'oh, I work so hard for my enlightement, so its good, I'm a real practionioner now"-stuff... I know a lot of people who practice zazen in this way, and to be honest, over the last years of practice I caught myself thinking that way as well a couple of times. I think, A.W. had a really profound understanding of zen, but he couldnt entirely walk the way - maybe he never wanted to. But who can?
I have read Alan Watts, most of his books, since I read The Book and the Wisdom of Insecurity (highly recommended books) and they blew my mind and changed my life. Alan Watts was NOT in favour of LSD use. He rejected it as a magical path to satori and disdained Timothy Leary. He did not like acid or recommend it or jump on the enthusiasm train of those finding it a chemical shortcut to true mysticism. He was, however, invited by scientists (by the US government IIRC) for official LSD testing so it is reasonable to write a short, basic essay on it.
That's not really correct. Yes Alan was involved in the legal LSD experiments. But after his initial experimentation was became excited about psychedelics. He especially honored the natural ones. He voiced caution and temperance, and knew enough to see that psychedelics were not an end to themselves but simply a spiritual tool. From the mid 60's onwards Alan has been a large icon for the mystical psychedelic experience. He was friends with Leary, taught and lived at Esalen, and was a major attraction at Druid Heights.
He was an alcoholic, sadly -- maybe he saw too much without a support community? He lived above Green Gulch at the end of his life in Druid Heights. I met another person who lived there once said, "I don't know how long one can live drinking a bottle of whiskey a day...."
P.S. part of his ashes were interred at Green Gulch as well.
Admittedly I find that ones mastery is best shown by how they maintain themselves in life. Despite his brilliant views I also had difficulty listening to him after I read about his drinking habbits.
Some time after that I revised my views. Alan Watts was a philosopher and a spiritual entertainer. He loved playing with words and idea's, and made his money doing what he enjoyed. He was extremely interested in spiritual matters, but by no means did I feel he was trying to reach high heavens with his lifestyle. He was a very sensual person. He loved drinking and so he did, even if it may have shortened his life.
His views were very clear, he could articulate them brilliantly, but they were very theoretical even unpractical a lot of the time. He just loved talking and what he said was very rational. There's really not much more to be said. He was who he was and it seems he was content with his life.
Use what he says or do not, it really does not matter. It did help me understand things far more clearly though.
His job was done and then he just left. More importantly, his presence is very trivial in that alcoholic body and behavior as his essence is in the works and memory of those who recall his messages. After-all, we are just an ever-changing flux.
Probably true.
I haven't read any of his books, but I really like listening to Alan Watts lectures. He was a very charming, witty and articulate fellow. He talked about LSD and how it can induce something similar to a mystical experience, however he didn't seem to regard it as much more than a novelty, and I don't recall hearing him saying anything about it being a shortcut to spiritual enlightenment. He did talk about the dangers of someone with no proper spiritual foundation misinterpreting the experience. He seemed to be very much against people taking these things willy nilly without any grounding in a tradition that would provide guidance and instill the proper respect that such a rite of passage ought to entail.
Anyway, talking about drugs is totally boring. I much prefer taking them myself.
Listen to "Out of Your Mind" tracks 8-10, especially 8. Watts says, "Buddhism speaks of the Four Dignities of Man, walking, standing, sitting, lying down" and goes on to explain that Zen can and should be practiced in any and all of them. He wasn't anti-zazen at all. He just found it odd that "in Japan today they make a great fetish of sitting Zen. They sit and they sit and they sit." He's saying zazen, rather than tatezen, etc., is overemphasized. If I remember correctly, "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" mentions washing dishes as a Zen practice. Watts did plenty of sitting himself; the critique doesn't somehow imply complete opposition. That's polarized, non-Zen thinking par excellence.
Thank you btw! for talking about Watts. Sorry to be that guy with all the comments. Love your videos!!
No worries. Judging from the comments people enjoyed the video. It was pretty easy to make and it was interesting to study a bit about Mr. Watts.
Halfway into the video, and you still haven't said anything about A.W., only about yourself.
txnygotw we are all talking about ourselves bro
"It is characteristic of the 1960s that a large number of people are
looking to the psychedelic drugs for some sort of wisdom or some
sort of enlargement of consciousness, and I think this symptom of
our epoch probably arises as an attempt to compensate for our
excessive purposiveness. But I am not sure that wisdom can be got
that way. What is required is not simply a relaxation of
consciousness to let the unconscious material gush out. To do this is
merely to exchange one partial view of the self for the other partial
view. I suspect that what is needed is the synthesis of the two views
and this is more difficult."
-Gregory Bateson, "Conscious Purpose Versus Nature," delivered at the Dialectics of Liberation conference, London, 1967
You are dismissive of Alan Watts without saying so. He was dismissive of zazen for reasons beyond plain ordinary worldly logic. And you're missing a lot by judging him, period. Shuryu Suzuki said Watts was a bodhisattva and existed beyond normal or nominal life 'rules.'
i.e. don't judge him
You misjudge him the microsecond you start judging him.
re: Alan Watts, some Japanese guru once said of him that he had made a pussy cat of something (Zen) that was in truth a tiger. Probably. But, to be fair, most of us are more up to forming an association with a pussy cat than we are or can be with a tiger.
According to his biography, as I understand it... He did zazen for several years with a teacher, giving it up later. He also did some great tv shows early on that are really good. Do spend some time. You may be surprised how good it can be.
czcams.com/play/PL02D3110151849463.html
I have listened to scores of hours of his lectures, subscribe to a podcast of his stuff and instagram. The only thing I have heard him say about drugs is that in Japan one uses a brick to knock on the door but never carries it into the house. Once you gain admission, there is no longer a reason for it. so I think he was very leery of the drug culture despite swimming in the same circles as Timothy Leary at times.
He did do zazen. His LSD experiences is only one small part of it.
I love Alan Watts but I kind of take him as a comparative religion professor and not so much of a Buddhist preceptor. His work tended to put things in context for me, especially as I was first getting into Buddhism/Taoism.
I also dabbled a little bit reading Suzuki and a book written by Dogen that I randomly found in my local library. I found them to be very insightful and easy to understand.
I agree though the basis of all this should lie mostly in meditation practice and at least attempting to keep the 5 precepts. At least for me as a lay person that’s kind of the extent to which I’m willing to go. Though if I had time and my wife was more interested I might delve deeper into it.
Now do Ram Das!
Thanks, Brad. Nice balanced view. Like you I mostly avoided Watts as teachers told me that there is better material from people who were practicing and not just studying, but it is probably time to get a feel for the guy. Lots of people cite his The Way of Zen as having brought them into Soto so I am guessing it can't be completely shabby!
Watts' book that played a large part in bringing me to the Soto Zen path.
His The Way of Zen is an audio on CZcams. It's wonderful reading. His analysis, both historical and analytical, is not only insightful, but also prescient. Zen is contextualized. It's roots in China proclaimed, but its debt to Taoism in China celebrated, then, flying over to Japan, he shows its flourishing and artistry, how the Japanese culture shaped it into pearl-like drops of grains.
I have a couple books by Alan Watts and I found them interesting. He was very intelligent and a great public speaker. But, as you said, he was not fond of Zazen and said he only did it when the mood hit him, which wasn't often. And he was a heavy drinker and smoker which no doubt contributed to his early death. He never considered himself a Zen Buddhist preferring to call himself a "Zennist". (Whatever that means.) He had his demons but nevertheless I thought he was very knowledgeable and a good teacher. He is worth a look.
I agree with your assessment. To use terms from cognitive science, I would say that when Watts wrote about religions his propositional and procedural ways of knowing were generally excellent. Unfortunately however, his grasp of them from the perspectival and participatory angles was mostly bereft. In other words, he never really practiced what he preached. "Myth and Ritual in Christianity" was very formative for me and is a priceless classic.
flashback! B.Dalton’s and Waldens! My source for sci-fi 😀
Far out. Unironically. I read a bunch of his random stuff some time ago, I liked him.
I wish people would say "groovy" unironically too these days after I learned what it's original meaning was before it was mocked :)
I read Alan Watts 'Way of Zen' and when I finished Amazon suggested I read 'Don't be a Jerk' next. Sounding like a fanboy here, I am now on the letters to Marky book, having read every book you have written (except the sci-fi one). I even have started the Nishijima/Cross translation, which is amazing. Thanks for making the effort.
Thank you for your support!
Brad I’m really enjoying your opinions on different thinkers and teachers 🙏🏻🙂
Thank you. It's weird how popular these videos are.
Thanks for the input, Brad. When I first came into Buddhism a number of years ago, a guy who ran a Buddhist antiques shop told me, while out to dinner with my wife and myself, that I should check out Alan Watts, as me being a fairly philosophical kind of guy, he thought I'd enjoy him. He was right, I do find his intellectualism interesting, but like you, can't get behind the whole drugs and alcohol thing; something about that Fifth Precept! Anyway, this guy also told me that the sum total of Buddhism is "Think good thoughts, speak good words, and do good deeds. " Zoroastrianism anybody??? I felt then and truly believe now that there's a lot more than that to it.
"Zen Buddhism began for Alan Wilson Watts when he was 12 years old and read the novels of Sax Rohmer, the creator of Dr. Fu Manchu. The
exploits of this fictive inscrutable Chinese detective inspired the boy to an interest in the Far East and, ultimately in Indian and Chinese and Japanese mystical philosophy." -NY times 1973. If you want to know about Zen don't study Alan Watts, I've read several sources and in sum they all criticize the information that he gives regarding zen. His main source for material were the works D. T. Suzuki, who did practice with a Zen teacher but was never given teaching ordination. Not receiving teaching ordination is evidence of not understanding Zen or its philosophy. So, as far as I read Watts never had any contact with anyone who understood Zen. Also take into account that almost no Zen works were translated to English at the time Watts was writing.
Brad, you hint at it, how do you think zazen can help work with alcoholism and addictions like that? Someone I feel the same as Alan Watts is David Foster Wallace, he seemed to see through so much but was also trapped in a conceptual mode of thought and couldn't see what came after the nihlism.
It should be said DFW has little to do with zen, but rather, I think he had some of the insights and truth and remarkably articulate about it, that come with some.of the early stages of the contemplative journey
It's hard to give a specific answer about how zazen can help people work with addictions. I've never been addicted to any substances like alcohol or opiates. But I was legitimately addicted to caffeine for a number of years and I've also been addicted (in a sense) to certain ways of thinking and perceiving. As for the caffeine, the Zen practice helped me notice that it really was a physical addiction. When I made the decision to end that addiction, the discipline I had acquired from my practice was what made it possible to resist, for example, drinking a cup of coffee and thereby ending the 24/7 headache I was suffering from for literally about five weeks. Zazen can help you see that you can endure an uncomfortable situation without resorting to habitual ways of attaining temporary comfort. Maybe that's the main thing.
Thankyou Brad,. Watts is who started my interest in zen. His cosmology was so new to me in 1970.
When i read alan watts these days it doesn't move me as I think what he was talking about is so integrated in my daily experience. The matt stone and trey parker videos are nuts and great. I'm not sure he goes that deep to be honest, I think he was an intellectual and in Mahasi sayadaw terms somewhere around the "Rising and Falling" on that map. Contrast to Zen Mind, Beginners Mind and it's still profound and fresh each read and I find things new. But I remember at the beginning, coming from being a physics and philosophy student and going through a really hard time in my life, lines like "the sound of the rain needs no translation" really was an entry. Prior to him I would have dismissed everything 'zen' as woo, he was really important to me in opening up a whole world but I don't think he's a good guide to zen or practice but he's essential as a 'translator' to a certain scientific world view.
Watts is in a causal chain that lead me to eventually encountering shining gems like "Mountains and Waters Sutra" though so I am extremely grateful to him.
Have you read Gurdjieff? and if so can you make a video about your thoughts on him/his teaching? :)
It's amzing that at 65yo and having been delving into spiritual practise both East and West for the last 45 years that I, too, have only started to listening to his lectures, which are still regularly played, weekly, on community radio and of course, the interweb. I had dismissed, maybe ignored him, years ago, a little, having heard he was a heavy smoker and alcoholic, and perhaps classified him as an "Above The Shoulders" Wiseman. But I was surprised by his coherance and easy-going-ness when listening. As a persons introductory to the dhamma/dharma he is kinda a useful stripped-back K-Tel lead in...and that's cool for me, thanks..now back to the Abhidhamma, haha
Alan Watts was a great beginning teacher for me but I outgrew him after a couple of years. Nowadays there are so many great dharma books out there that I wouldn't recommend his books as an introduction but I don't want to put him down either. Hey, I see you read Philip K. Dick. He's one of my favorite authors.
Thanks for this review, Brad.
Hey @Brad, thanks for your insightful videos and great books. I am looking for a decent Zen teacher in the Toronto's area, do you have any suggestions? I know you led a retreat here last year, but unfortunately I wasn't able to join. I know only the Toronto Zen Centre, which is run by one of Kapleau's heir.
Very honest, but man you should have read his best book ever - “The Way of Zen”. He only had a few essays about drugs, the vast majority of his work was on the Asian view of humans place in nature.
When you are thinking you are also doing. Thinking IS a philosophy of action. Alan Watts did a lot of doing by interacting with audiences. Perhaps he modified his experiences based on that.
He did too much thrinking .
Alan Watts has some of the best books I've ever skimmed thru.
Ooooo, Brad! I'm sorry, long term watcher first time mega-commenter. Um, my favourite line, Mountains and Waters sutra is something along the lines of "walking in the mountains, notice the phenomena of mountains walking. Mountains walking is just like human walking" hearing the Gary Snyder audio reading this is particularly delightful. Would you expound on this line? I'm just delighted by it, don't need to 'understand' it and I thought perhaps you are delighted by this too :)
Also i just want to say I think the 3 videos you did last week "Bad zazen is good zazen" and 2 on dogen were amazing and sparky :)
Good video. Given how well educated he was, I think he would have gained a lot from zazen.
Holy Crap! I was in Tim's Class at Kent in the mid 80's too! Remember sitting at the house behind the BK with all the burger smoke? He was my springboard into Buddhism any eventually Comparative Religion studies at UH Manos.
I think it was Watts that was the impetus to explore Zen back then as it was a 'hobby' while studying CompSci at KSU.
Oh wow! Was that the first house he had, before he moved to Franklin Street? I remember the first place he lived was right behind a row of fast food places.
Would have been better to have a said ‘people have asked about Alan Watts but I just haven’t read enough or heard enough to say. “ People die at 58 for other reasons besides alcoholism even if they’re alcoholics. People come to realization in ways other than zazen- - it is a path not the path. What’s the point of giving a talk and asking people for money if your source.is Wikipedia?
“Don’t know” Seems like a perfectly appropriate zen response
Wikipedia was not my only source.
I watched 37 minutes of a 1:12hr talk by Watts, but it was enough for me to turn it off and be able to see where he was coming from, enough to do a meaningful critique of his ideas and approach. I know almost nothing at all of Zen, but I know what the Buddha taught and am familiar with Hindu philosophy inclusive of all the schools of thought there, as well as Christianity. He is impressively well spoken, no question. I agree with his criticism of modern Christianity. He then leads his listeners to Eastern philosophy, but proceeds to do the same thing to Eastern Philosophies that he accuses Christianity of doing. He opens the gateway, simultaneously corrupting the teachings and seeding doubt towards its' teachers. I think HZ gave a fair assessment, without pretending to have read more than he did.
Also I looked at Watts' personal life. Not only an alcoholic, but a serial womanizer, self admitted bad father, he was lacking both the moral integrity and committed practice to realize the Self, leaning on the philosophy, which he knew well, but ignoring that at it's core it is a practical philosophy, he rejected any means to realize Self or apply any effort towards dissolving the ego. He also uses 'psychobabble' as a straw-man to both disparage vegetarians and to rationalize his habit of eating animal flesh, while conveniently ignoring the rationale by which the Buddha prescribed to abstain from meat eating.
He rightly notes that developing spirituality can lead one to a false sense of superiority, but at it's heart that's also the ego and needs to be overcome. It's not a dead end that proves the methods false, it's part of the journey for some. A journey he would have you believe was not necessary to take.
If you think that practicing meditation makes you 'wooden', it's time to try a different approach. In fact, for a Christian, better to stay a Christian but deepen your approach to it, than to take a non practical/non mystic approach to Eastern Mysticism.
You should listán tó hús lectures ön CZcams
I have! There are some good ones!
Yeah, Alan Watt's won't neccesarily inspire your zazen practice.Shunryu Suzuki did refer to him as a Bodhisattva though.From a certain perspective we could even say Richard Dawkin's, Sam Harris are Bodhisattva's .I had a zen teacher who said just sit,all the answers to your questions are in your shikantaza.Some time later he ask's me what I am reading.I said nothing I'm just sitting.His reply was, well you are suppose to use your head and take your zazen with you in all your activities then he hands me Bodhidharma's Blood stream sermon.
Look into Chogyam Trungpa's experience with him. It mirrors this take.
Hi
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
I have to ask you cause you mentioned it a few times in some videos - what is your beef you the whole ken wilber integral idea?
kind regards
Ken Wilbur is not one of my favorite people. I think he's very smart, but he lets his smarts get in the way and obscure everything valuable.
@@HardcoreZen i understand
Thank you
Enjoy your talks Brad. You didn't mention Watts's"The Way of Zen" which was perhaps more influential than Suzuki, especially for young people. (You may have done so in a later video, I'm just clicking around some of your talks.) Watts often said (paraphrase) "why not do work that you enjoy? And I enjoy talking....I'm an entertainer, not a guru." But he was a very deep entertainer, and some of his books are very high class. Anyway, there is also an audiobook on CZcams of "Way of Zen" if you are looking for something to listen to rather than read...be well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_of_Zen
Thanks. I know about that book but I haven't read it.
Kent State !!!! Was there form 84-91 (Bach and Masters), love your Video's the concoction to Kent (Ray' and the Loft) make them even better!!!
Our time there overlapped, then. Maybe I saw you at Ray's.
He was sort of in "The Transmigration of Timothy Archer" sort of, a little bit. Which might be over your shoulder.
@RakeRocter aye
Funny with all that knowledge and understanding. Only that subtle feeling of alcohol satisfied him. No disparagement from this kindred spirit.
I think you got it. He is able to introduce eastern concepts to the western mind better than anyone, but concepts without action--without practice--can be dangerous.
His talks are insanely widespread on CZcams now, and sadly, today's spirituality may be reflecting this: all concept, no action, no real understanding
Yeah...
why did you make a video on him if you wont know about him.... when someone is searching a topic... they want more experienced person's take on it.. or someone who knows the topic to explain it to them.. in the whole video I see you repeating I dont know much.. i didn't bother much.. etc etc
Because AS I EXPLAINED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE VIDEO people asked me my opinion on Alan Watts.
@@HardcoreZen hmm .. okay.. but u know.. for those who were searching for this topic.. you could have added some more info.. so they actually share it.. it's only gonna help you increase the views.. 😁
@@tashurastogi Thank you! I could have done a better video.
This guy kinda looks like Ted Kazinsky.
what's so "ehhhhhhhhrghghgh" about lsd?
Read more Alan Watts.
On the one hand, Alan Watts was very poetic in how he presented philosophy, and this poetry can linger with me. On the other hand, he sometimes subtly crosses a line. Philosophies that provide a means of approaching the unsolvable difficulties of life get remolded into something as sugary and easy as candy. The best of his poetry challenges me; the worst of his poetry seems a bit too smug, and also laced with hints of the supernatural. Do I love Watts or hate Watts? Mu.
Yeah... I've only just recently started reading his stuff. Some of it is really good! But, then again, you're right that he sometimes misses the mark.
in my humble opinion it would be better not to talk about what you don't know (as you honestly admit)
Alcoholism and meditation? All I think of is Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. The sex stuff too. Hard to understand....
Could you, please tell us what you think about psychologically minded Zen? ...Barry Magid, Charlotte Joko Beck
Watts only lived to be 65 years old I think.
What are your thoughts about Thich Nhat Hanh?
I think you should dabble with some LSD and then read/listen to all of his stuff.😂 Even though I say that jokingly I mean that whole heartedly. One of the main reasons his insights are so good is because of his experience with LSD.
I have read several of Watt's books. My favorite is The Book:On the Taboo against knowing who you are. I found The Wisdom of Insecurity to be rather boring. Other's mileage may vary. Also good are The Way of Zen and Cloud Hidden: Whereabouts Unknown.
Dear Brad, dear spiritual friend, what about Metta Sutta?
Two of my favorite talks by watts are limits of language and symbols & meaning. Does very well at “explaining” the unexplainable
my take... for me, in the 80s, he was an intro, but then you move on... my understanding is he was kinda an ass, but had some good insights. Agree with you assessment overall.
So what’s the point of making a video about a guy you barely know about? Oh, right, the views.
It's simple, some of us respect Brad and are curious to hear his opinions. Check the cynicism, dude
T.C. Bramblett I respect that, but he literally says he only read one essay, his Wikipedia page and the short animation made by the South Park creators. This much information makes for a shamefully shallow opinion, on any subject. Yet again, I respect the guy and his following, even if I don’t agree with his views.
Very insightful pepe .
I asked about Watts months ago. Good to see you informed yourself in those months by looking at wiki, South park, and not reading any works. Oh, lsd in one book. Must be trash. Funny how you like Krishnamurti and Dogen, two people Watts deeply respected (and knew). Maybe in another 6 months you'll actually read something so you can have informed opinion on the actual work. One essay, out of one book, that admittedly is not his best. Neat? Maybe try the actual good ones or if you need me to credit you an audiobook.
After this review you need some zazen . Why do we people do what they do including judge/reacting ? I am doing it at the moment .
You should really listen to the talk: symbols and meaning