WHICH TRAITOR ASTARTES SUCCESSORS DOES THE IMPERIUM NEED? FOUNDING OF TRAITORS!
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2023
- Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're asking the question... Which Traitor Astartes Bloodline should be picked for a new founding? Which traitor Primarch gene-seed does the Imperium need?
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Iron warriors without doubt. Very stable gene-seed, highly resistant to the influence of the ruinous powers and disciplined even in the face of the bleakest odds due to their overwhelming need to assert their dominance and superiority over both their enemies and their allies.
Considering that the Silver Skulls have been around since the 2nd founding, that's proof the sons of pertarabo can be 100% trustworthy
Hmm, yeah this. I will leave my comment since I thought of it originally but yeah... this.
100% they would be a force
Totally agree. Super stable line
I’d actually agree with Iron Warriors.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT. Despite being traitor, their record at refusing corruption or gifts from chaos cannot be undervalued
Darn you! I came to just say Iron Within, Iron Without.
That and the Iron Warriors hard carried the Heresy. And I say this as a Luna Wolf.
@Robert Beckman for reals, no iron warriors? Horus would fail easily. And the Emperor would have lived
Refusing corruption? Hardly, if the daemon engines and Chaos Warsmiths are any indication. Plus living on a daemon world makes avoiding corruption all but impossible.
@@headlibrarian1996 True, but this is talking just using Purty's geneseed, i.e. primaris loyalist iron warriors. And it is definitely shown that IW's were resistant to chaos before their primarch defected
IRON Warriors without a doubt... They have a track record of being completly undaunted by any task.
Rho: the World Eaters can't come back. They are too into massacres.
Also Rho: the Night Lords are super into massacres. That would be awesome in 40k.
I think the difference is that the World Eaters are too hard to control, and kill indiscriminately, while the NL's at least do it with tactics and know how to win campaigns.
Meh i see it exactly the other way, Angron had the most loyalists in his own legion of all traitors, the Warhounds seemed to be very critical and skeptical of Angron's BS even though the Emp appointed him as their leader. Angron needed/needs the butchers nails to really corrupt his legion. The Night Lords seem to be too sadistic, hedonistic and downright unprofessional to be considered over the Warhounds.
@@Abb0able Plus the savagery of the World Eaters when they were still the War Hounds is often confused. Yes some fluff suggest the War Hounds were the legion closest to the Thunder Warriors of old in their ferocity. But they were not the savage animals that the World Eaters became. They were in all practical purposes the legion of destroyers. Who were brought in to burn worlds and not conquer them. Which is why the EoM kept them in reserve during the Unifications Wars and reconquest of the Sol System. Using their ferocity and tenacity in the hardest most difficult battles. This was why the War Hounds were one of larger legions of those early days. Their causalities were high, but their glee in being 'let of the leash' so to speak is what got them their name. But more importantly their success rate is why the EoM called them his Hounds of War. So in few battles they were used, victory was total, rapid and bloody.
@@Interrobang212 The thing is though much of the traitor World Eaters' problems came from the Butcher's Nails - much like their Primarch. In his pure, unadulterated form Angron was apparently an empath, capable of absorbing the pain of others and healing them. So if the World Eaters sans nails inherit that ability they could theoretically be the top Apothecary/Support legion.
Conversely Night Lords again may be much more effective if they weren't being taken from the dregs of society - although they contrast massively with the Blood Angels, who were initially taken from even less desirable gene-stock but flourished under the mantle of Sanguinius, who basically brought them from being a legion of savage defects to one of the most powerful loyalist legions. So perhaps what the Night Lords always needed was a Primarch who wasn't a total edgelord.
@@sonicwingnut I think, i can put it simply this way: Fear of the Batman kept Konrad's legion in line while they were still Imperial. Angron on the other hand had to use his authority, culling and play the genetic daddy uno card to corrupt a big part of his legion through the butchers nails brainwash.
Definitely the Iron Warriors. Warriors who can not only hold the line, but actually push back with cold efficiency. Their precision, logistical aptitude, and ruthless calculus, is what is what is needed to win the Fourth Tyranic War.
While also being extremely creative and independent thinkers. Dantioch had demonstrated that when allowed to act on their own, iron warriors will always surprise their enemies with their ability to think outside of the box.
But there will always be those who slip through the cracks of the iron wall and for them a more specialized but no less effective weapon must be used. Fear!
I would go with Night Lords. Without criminals for recruits and a madman for a leader they would do the job and find no pleasure in it. They would also work better as an army without the criminal selfishness the legion suffers from.
It's unfair to rule out the gene-seed of Angron, his geneseed would actually be a good option for Loyalist chapters, being very stable. Given that Angron was also meant to be empathic and decent before the butchers nails ruined him beyond repair, a Warhounds bloodline ( not the Worldeaters ) founding could well result with something akin to the Lamenters in heroic character.
While I see the worth and advantages of all these chapters I gotta place my bets on The Iron Warriors
We don't just need to hold the line against the Tyranids and inside Imperium Nihilis, we need to be able to push back too and honestly I think Perturabo's boys are the best for the job, especially if you provide them with the proper amount of supply lines, munitions and forces that can back them up or even help them in an advance. The Iron warriros are efficient, strategic and organized killing machines and when used properly they can conquer any foe
On top of that they have a pretty stable gene seed so this also creates the potential for successor chapters
A lot of traitor gene seed is incredibly viable for Imperial use.
- Iron Warriors: Not only are they the most stable, they’re the most compatible with the most legions. Throw them in with any sons of Dorn, Ferrus, the Lion, or even Roboute.
- Death Guard: Next most useful as well as having an obvious use case: slowing the ravenous hordes that approach Terra.
- Luna Wolves: If it wasn’t obvious by their name, the hard hitting and unrelenting style of the Luna Wolves would greatly compliment the Space Wolves own ferocity.
- Alpha Legion: Not only could they do the simple work of reinforcing the Raven Guard, but they could also be sidelined for roles filed by Chapters like the Minotaurs, while those Chapters get fielded in proper Warzones.
- Emperor’s Children & World Eaters: While their traits do put them at the same risk of corruption as their original chapters, their use against the Orks or Tyranids is obvious. Plus, a combined force of them could pose as Blood Angels, passing off the World Eaters as just Black Rage. Which, given that they’d be Primaris, would give any actual Blood Angel (or Successor) that saw them a heart attack.
As much as I love the Thousand Sons, making a Chapter of Psykers when the Shadow in the Warp is on its way doesn’t make much sense to me. The other two… well everyone knows what’s up with them.
Actually, I'd like to raise that a World Eaters successor wouldn't be savage warlords. First off, while they were undeniably violent and bloody even prior to Angron, they would be controlled about it. For example, the War Hounds (pre-Angron World Eaters) had a major cultural tradition of walking at a steady advance without flying off the handle. Plus, Angron pre-nails and prolonged slavery was actually an extremely empathetic and caring person capable of healing his allies.
@@abrarnoorani8385 While that is true about their nature, as you brought up it was their experiences that made them that way. With that in mind, I would imagine that any task given to a Chapter Cawl knows to be of World Eater gene-seed wouldn’t be given some cushy job where they or anyone else could discover the truth of what they were, or before they tipped of everyone by being corrupted like their forebearers. They’d be thrown into the meat grinder, and the meat grinder is where that World Eater behavior would be born.
World Eaters posing as Blood Angels wouldn't really work. The BA have their own angelic style and look due to their geneseed that the World Eaters wouldn't be able to replicate without surgeries.
@paimonisfood4986 In fairness, there are a lot of successors which act and look very little like the legion their gene seed originate from. E.g. the Excorcists being Imperial Fist successors or the Charcharadons being supposed Raven Guard successors (though I subscribe to the belief that they have some Night Lord in them).
@@paimonisfood4986 World Eaters posing as Blood Angels with Black Rage who don’t interact with any other chapters doesn’t seem that hard to pull off
The Luna Wolves seem like the most obvious choice to me. They were the premier amongst the legions before the Heresy. They were the proverbial best of the best, frustrating Guilleman in simulations against his Ultramarines and beating them consistently.
Yes, having Horus with them for so long certainly didn't hurt them, but they had already earned their own nickname by executing their first major action against the lunar colonies so deftly. I suspect part of the reason Horus didn't rename them sooner was because "Luna Wolves" had such a strong legacy by the time he was introduced to them.
They get my strongest vote, and I'm an admitted Alpha Legion and Death Guard fan boy. I would be happy with any of your top three though, Rho. They're all solid, interesting contenders for a new founding.
Politically I can't see them being used. The entire heresy is named after their primarch.
It's the most heretical of the choices
Their "premier" status was political due to the I Legion Dark Angels losses in thd Rangdan Xenocides. The Luna Wolves in the galactic South didn't face this type of threat so we're setup to succeed in the second century of the Great Crusade relative to others, except perhaps XIII Legion Ultramarines
Luna Wolves were great warriors but the Dark Angels were the proverbial first
I also disagree with the claim of consistently beating XIII Legion in simulations.
The XIII Legion did not get to the size it did because it was incompetent or inferior to Luna Wolves
@@markrtoffeeman
The XIII got to that size because Guilliman had his own personal Empire which he used to force grow the Ultramarine Legion.
The Ultramarines are generalists, nothing special.
@@Shatterfury1871nonsense
Alpha Legion of course. Hydra Dominatus
Yeah, no. No yeah...
The Alpha legion is already serving the Imperium.....or are they?
@Logan yeah ysh alpha legion really digs thr imperium
Yes...HYDRA DOMINATUS! FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
I can only approve of this! I am Alpharius.
Just imagine the following: Loyal sons of Lorgar, fighting together with the raging crusaders of Dorn and the zeal of the Sisters of Battle. The faith in the Emperor at play there would be such a potent force.
The Black Templars and Sisters of Battle would burn ANY son of Lorgar just for the sin of being descendant of traitor stock. One Black Templar Crusade even killed their new Primaris recruits for being an affront against the Emperor's purity and vision. They would NEVER accept any Astartes of traitor stock. And the Sisters of Battle are even bigger zealots.
Way too risky.
word bearers in current 40k would be a force to behold
Loyal Word Bearers being commanded by the Anchorite would be an interesting approach, that marine is basically responsible for the creation of the Ecclesiarchy in its current age, and if given a penitent crusade could definitely amplify the power of faith amongst the galaxy
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Meh, tell them there was a new founding based on Imperial Fist geneseed, and the Black Templars would find them pretty dope
I'm going with the Iron Warriors on this one. Methodical and relentless as well as the best Siege Masters, it just feels that it would fit perfectly in the Imperium in it's current state. No gene seed mutation issues is a big win.
But if we look at the successor chapters of loyalist legions we see chapters that differ vastly in both chapter beliefs and tactics of the original legion. Clearly just having Iron Warrior geneseed does not make you a siege master. That comes from being inducted, trained and indoctrinated into Iron Warrior legion and culture. Geneseed gives you some of the strengths and weaknesses a legion is known for, but not legion tactics and doctrine.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 It is ironic that from all the stories it have read, iron warriors are very creative and independent thinking despite being lead by a primarch who can't think of a better strategy than digging trenches. On the other hand you have the ultramarine who used to be one of most flexible in tactics but now stiff like a broad without Gulliman fixing them.
Personally, dismissing the Alpha Legion was a grave mistake. Their gene seed is extremely stable but I think the biggest reason to make a successor chapter from them is because Alpharious only went over to the side of chaos to make sure humanity survived based on the information he was given. He made the choice alone.
That may be true, but the Alpha legion specializes in infiltration, deception, and subterfuge; that works well during the great crusade against planets populated by non Chaos aligned humans, but in the 41st millennium there are no such easy targets. Attempting to infiltrate Chaos would run the risk of infiltrators being corrupted, and I have a feeling they wouldn't get past Orks, Eldar, Necrons, Tyrranids, or other. They would work against the Tau and certain rebels, but that would be a very minor role for them to play.
Alpha legion are totally loyal just super duper deep under cover 😂
The main problem would simply be them going their own path. And who knows what that would mean.
The current alpha legion is extremely diverse in goals and alliegence. Them getting in contact with a new chapter could go so many ways.
Now I personally think Alpharius himself (who posed as Omegon) is alive and kicking as a loyalist. He probably leads a smaller band at this point.
Far too risky in my view.
I personally would love to see an emperors children redemption. I think fulgrim did those boys dirty. The loyalist emperor’s children were some of the best the imperium had to offer. And they in the beginning had to cope with low numbers because of the flaw in their gene seed so they should be able to adapt to the chapter system and more tactical use of astartes. They were honourable and strove for perfection in the emperors name…
That said if they brought back iron warriors.. they could do some damage.
The World Eaters can turn out like the Blood Angels if raised and lead right.
This. Wasn't Angron implied to be a strong empath? If his legion were to share that trait, they could be a powerful force for uniting baseline humans to their cause.
@@Cybermaul Angron could take the pain from others it's really to bad the nails ruined him
I said the same thing in my reply. He was meant to be the most empathic of all the Primarchs. Sure the World Eaters can be savage fighters but if Belisarius also enhanced that empath side of the geneseed it could lead to warriors that would use that savagery in defense of all of humanity against the worst the galaxy can throw at us.
I think the utilization of traitor forces from back during the great crusade would be such a great middle finger to the forces of Chaos and the traitor legions. If there was a guarantee that it truly was the actions of their primarchs, then it would so epic to showcase what could’ve been had they not fallen
Trayzen probably has some in stock. Lmfao
I can see Word Bearer descendants being another closely-allied faction with the Ecclesiarchy. Maybe lending more punch to Sororitas operations
Alpha legion. Snuffing out rebellions before they get going is probably even more important now. More stable worlds equals more troops where they are needed. They could be very good at hunting down GSC.
That is what Raven guard does...
@@Paerigos Hydra Dominatus!
@@Paerigos and who was it that screwd up Corax rebuilding plans? Oh yes, it was a rando alpha legion marine, or Alpharius taking orders from Omegon :P
Luna wolves would probably be best, but they're 100% the only legion Guilliman would put his foot down on
Emperor's Children. Exceptional warriors and tacticians, who are extremely adept at working alongside baseline humans. They also followed Guilliman's orders and were more effective in their implementation of the proto Codex strategies than the Ultramarines themselves.
the Imperium def needs the sons of Mortarion to stalk the battlefield once again, unbreakable, capable of weathering any storm, unyielding in even the harshest battlezones steadily advancing
the sons of Lorgar would only be useful if they studied under the Anchorite and learnt the ancient words of Colchis that was capable of banishing warp entities with only a word, a premier antiwarp chapter on the level of the Grey Knights
That’s a cool idea with the word bearers
If your looking to take and hold large territories with little effort and stomping out resistance it’s easily alpha legion. They already fit well with chapter mold due to acting in cells. You easily could have just on legionnaire hold a plant with how good they are at creating an maintaining cells.
Iron Warriors by a mile. Incredibly stable with a propensity towards stoically following orders.
The alpha legion is hands down the best choice.
* They use their spies and networks to bring planets into compliance without using tremendous force
* They help keep planets in line with minimal force
* They could stop a rebellion before it becomes an issue
* They would be able to find and hunt down chaos cults
* They would be able to find and hunt down genestealer cults
* They free up Millions of guardsmen for the front
They are hands down the best choice. I say this as a 1000 sons fan. While they might not bring the most forces to bear at the front line, they bring more total force to the front lines by freeing up the guard. When Cadia was breaking it was the guard that held the line and the space marines ran like rats off a sinking ship. It is the guard that have held for over 10,000 years, not the astartes. The Alpha legion would be the greatest traitor legion to rejoin the Imperium because they would make the front lines stronger through themselves and by brining the guard down.
Good points
but they are loyal, and they have the primiach gene seed tech to make the ultimate stable marines
you should make a video on the chapters that are all but confirmed to be from traitor stock, both pre - and post ultima founding.
That being said, definitely the Iron Warriors based on the loyal iron warriors that followed Dantioc to ultrimar who may or may not be the priomogenitors of the Scythes of the Emperor and the Silver Skulls.
Scythes of the Empror and the Soul drinkers my 2 favorite second founding chapters.
World Eaters minus the nails would actually be really interesting. The fact that Angron may have been an empath would make for very interesting characters from his sons. Great diplomatic warriors with boundless skill and nobility in combat. Possibly limited telepathy via bonds of brotherhood within each squad if they developed their gifts. Aside from willingly accepting the gifts of Khorne, you don’t hear of much spontaneous mutation from them which I would bet implies pretty stable geneseed.
If we got a noble version of the World Eaters they would quickly become my favorite chapter/legion.
Would be cool to have loyalist successors of the Iron Warriors or Night Lords. Imagine loyalist Night Lords vs genestealer cults in the segmentum Solar, purpledicks aint got a chance
The nightlords would fit right into the 42nd milenium. As cruel but efficient enforcers they would have a better time fitting in than in the past.
Are the Blood Ravens still canonical? I seem to remember them being stable gene-scions of Magnus and the Thousand Sons.
Heavily implied to be a descendants of the Thousand Sons. They most likely a chimeric chapter made up primarily from Thousand Son base stock.
Yes they are still fighting. In fact there are a few existing chapter with hidden traitor geneseed still fighting : the Silver Skulls (Iron Warriors loyalist origins but "adopted" by Guilliman), Carcharodon (geneseed mixed of Raven Guard and Night Lords), the former Soul Drinkers (thought from Dorn geneseed, retested and found unknown, they make a chapter-wide suicide mission to clean their shame), Sons of Antius (name correct ?)(Possibly Death Guard, due to their sheer resilience and size)
Blood Ravens may be Word Bearers. Also had psykers and a number of name clues points in that direction. Plus that whole curse with the Thousand Sons and they had WB interested in corrupting or destroying them.
In New lore exorcist are possible Magnus descendants. Blood ravens would go info Lorgar genestock
Iron warriors I'd say. It was because of them its called the Horus Heresy instead of the Horus Hiccup. Having a new line of them would be a major boon.
Too risky. The current alpha legion would infiltrate in the chapter also instantly
Alpha Legion successors would give the imperium some breathing room by sabotaging tau, genestealers, and chaos cults.
thousand sons and split them in squads and add them to other chapters
With leviathan on its way I think a few imperial iron warriors could come in handy. Dantioch proved what a handful of them could do against an overwhelming force
Would a new NightLords chapter be useful for hunting genestealers?
If you could get stable 1000 sons... Given it's instability... You need A-line that is smart As opposed to organized or aggressive. Night lords or alpha legion perhaps? The thousand sons or the word bearers would be great except for their obvious risks. The only other option in that category would be of the emperor's children.
.There's so much of angron and portorabo in the Imperial space Marines already. Similarly there is just too many ultramarine successors for the lunar wolves to bring something different to the table.
In the fighting harder not smarter category the death guard's probably your only option but smart I think is what you want..
I’d love to see a World Eater loyalist chapter. Although there are rumours that some could already be out there.
In regard to the 3rd legion you are forgetting about the Blight. That was a geneseed defect that was never officially listed as cured
It was cured once their apothecarion got access to Fulgrim, hence Fabius (who had all other 'blighted' astartes put down and concealed his own corruption) is the only one still suffering from it... no matter how many times he hops from one dying clone body to another.
A lot of the traits being mentioned aren't inherent to a gene-seed though, right? You can train any chapter to be stealthy and sneaky like the Alpha Legion. You can train any chapter in decapitation strikes like the Luna Wolves. I think the most worthwhile traitor gene-seed to use would be ones which carry good genetic traits and benefits.
It’s definitely a question of nature versus nurture, I agree. Somethings might be unavoidable, though, like the potential corruption or madness inherent in the night lords caused by their psychic nature. And at the same time, how would Warhounds function, if mentored by, say, the Blood Angels? I hope we get to see this with a returned clone of Fulgrim and redeemed emperors children/sons of the Phoenix.
The Alpha Legion was specifically designed to be infiltrators though. The Alpha Legion, Space wolves, and Salamanders gene-seeds were specially tailored by the Emperor for specific roles.
A World Eater successor chapter would be very interesting without the leading figure of Angron. It’s already very curious to see what they’d become if Angron, reaching them, wasn’t affected by the Nails. His history as well, how he was earlier in life, and the abilities he held like with that supernatural sort of empathy? If that would somehow be harnessed and passed down, like the successors of the Blood Angels dealing with affects from their father, creating a new era of World Eaters almost in entire opposition to their formers. If nothing else, seeing those who remember react to it would be interesting. Anyways, the correct answer is more Alpharius.
Only issue in my mind - would the appearance of a dusk hound clad chapter showing up insight even more belligerent rage should they recognize the look of their old armor?
Interesting point there.
Noble World Eaters would really be what the imperium needs because of inheriting Angron’s supposed empath abilities. Limited telepathy, great diplomats, and all of the skill in combat you would expect from the world eaters.
“Fear the wrath of a quiet man” incarnate(?)
Their nobility and skill would rival the knights of Caliban or the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus. There is a good chance their geneseed is stable as well since the willingly accepted gifts of Khorne are the only mutations we tend to hear about.
They have the minotaur as successors
@@jasonlewis4569 is there evidence I’ve missed that labels them World Eater successors? I thought the rumor was they were Iron Warrior successors
More Blood Ravens obviously
Hey dude, just wanted to say I love your content, easily my favorite 40k channel and my number one choice of channel to fall asleep too, keep up the great work! Appreciate everything ya do.
P.s your passion for the lore is my favorite part. Nice to hear someone get excited like I do.
I feel the Alpha Legion would be of great use to the Imperium. When the time comes to put the Inquisition in it's place (and that time IS coming), no one would be more useful during such an operation. Who better to take on an organization that thrives on secrets and works behind the scenes so often?
I would be worried that they would enjoy "the game" too much, and side with the Inquisition when the time came.
@@pjmcmurray5802 I understand that concern but doubt it would be an issue. The Inquisition would throw it's weight around and demand subservience from the Alpha Legion and that would be it. The Inquisition would (once again) have made an enemy uselessly just to soothe it's ego. Only this time they would invoke the wrath of a legion (not chapter) that can play their game on a whole new level. With that and a small dose of luck, BYE BYE Inquisition. It would be delicious.
Iron Warriors seems the obvious answer. Pretty resistant to corruption, no obvious gene flaw, and hyper resilient (almost to death guard levels). Seems perfect for current imperium.
Iron warriors, no doubt. Their methodical siege and attrition tactics are perfect for fighting the Tyranids, especially if they were supplemented by the death korps of krieg
Minotaurs (Iron Warriors) are already in lore and the Charcaradons are argued as a mix of 8th loyalists and 19th
I think Cawl HAS been experimenting with Word Bearer Gene Seed as well. The new Salamander successor chapter, The Covenant of Fire, bears a lot of similarities with the Word Bearers. They have the old Word Bearers symbol as their badge, a love of seeking knowledge, and a devotion to the Promethean Cult.
Placing my vote on Death guard. They are a tough legion for the grinding wars. However, more importantly to me the terran born and ones raised to be most loyal to the big E all stayed loyal. Which means a low chance of chapters going renegade which I think many of the other legions suffer from.
Iron Warriors are definitely the safest bet, perfect all-rounders to field throughout the Imperium. I'd do Emperors Children next, as was stated, they'd work great with G-man, and then Word Bearers to pump up that Fervorous Zeal for Mankind; the ultimate weapon
How dare you. I will not stand for this warhounds slander
Iron Warriors paired with the Death Korp would be phenomenal. It’s like they were made for each other.
I feel that making a alpha legion successor chapter given to the death watch would be very useful especially if used to hunt down genestealer cults or weakening the hold of tau on human worlds
I think that a Chapter of Word Bearers Paladins would be amazing. Just this holy order of knights pushing back the darkness.
The list has always been Iron Warriors (obviously the Sliver Skulls), Death Guard (Sons of Antaeus rumored being one) and finally Emperors Children (the Death Eagles being one and its hinted Death Eagles was the original name of the Emperors Children Legion). Since we have rumors of loyalist Chapters that were founded by loyalists from the traitor legions. We have the possibility that Carcharodons are in fact descended from loyalist Night Lords too. Especially with how the High Lords of Terra have used them to make examples of even other Space Marine Chapters. I excluded the Thousand Sons cause I am in the camp that believes the Blood Ravens are in fact 2nd Legion loyalist successor Chapter. The lack of the flesh change and at the same time their high number of 'Battlefield' pykers. It should be noted that in order to remove their own loyalist elements. Horus admitted that each traitor legion had to eliminate almost 1/3 of their numbers. I am suspicious though that Cawl knows which loyalist Chapters are descended from traitor stock. Using them to create new Chapters while getting around Guillemin's order to only use 'Loyalist' gene-seed. Since as loyalist Chapters, their gene-seed is loyalist, if not their Primarchs. Though I admit with all the weirdness of the Warp. You could have loyalist Great Crusade Era fleet with 100's of ships and thousands Astartes of anyone of the 20 legions suddenly pop out of the Warp 10,000 years later, not knowing of anything that has happened.
Imperial Heralds would help Guilliman to purge the galaxy of the Ecclesiarchy while the Word Bearers would help him subvert / weaponize it.
It looks like the Emperor's wearing cat ears in the picture with the primarchs. Now I've seen it, it's stuck.
Besides the Word Bearers being just as fanatical as the Black Templars there is one thing that sets the apart and in a good way is that they were builders they always left the worlds they encountered better then when they came to them
Abbadon is cthonian, isn't he? It's in his name. The Luna Wolves were a big part of the assault on the genewights on the moon... they were awesome before Horus.
Genewrights helped streamline the geneseed creation process right? So it could done faster, with less errors.
@@jrr7031 yup
I love my Iron Warriors, and there certianly is a role for new IW chapers in the current setting as reinforcements and coordinators for those grinding and attritional Astra Militarum battlezones, I gotta go with the unlikely choice of the Emperor's Children
I also like the Word Bearers option, but adding more religious fanatic Astartes is just going to cause problems with Guilliman down the line. Emperor's Children successor chapters however, would be highly effective in small unit actions that Astartes of the 41st/42nd millennium are required for, and precision and highly coordinated larger actions (~500 or so Astartes) would be of huge benefit to the bigger battles happening out there
Luna wolves, those that resisted and re-took the LW banner were brutal, they’d also be a major mocking blow to the black legion. LW primaris… shouting for the emperor would horrify the black legion. Also same colours would mean a cool black&white armour pattern when fighting black legion
My vote goes to the Alpha Legion. They bring something to the table that the Imperium doesn't have and would be a good complement to the current forces.
Assuming they could infiltrate and sabotage Chaos cults and warbands.
I'd love to see Iron warriors making lines to hold back the swarm and chapters of Dusk raiders implacibbly pushing back against the crush of the swarm. Pair them with Krieg artillery and stop the tendril and bleed its biomass
Thousand sons, although they've got their flesh-change, who's to say Cawl won't be able to tech-genius a heavily supressed flesh-change if not completely remove the gene flaw?
Psykers are an important asset, with most chapters having librarians just to make use of this power, so imagine a whole legion dedicated to the study and documentation of the warp and sorcerey in a controlled manner, helping not only the legions but imperium better understand it's nature and how to wield it better with less risk for corruption.
I mean, we basically have a loyalist legion of psykers, Grey knights. The fact that this is the case alone speaks volumes to the necessity to them as much as the imperium hates them.
With the point above, you could then argue that Thousand Sons would be redundent, but unlike Grey Knights, Thousand Sons wouldn't be bound by secrecy, even less so if the successors were given permission to be created.
Thousand Sons also have solid friendship with chapters like White Scars which may help the popularity of both legions, in models and in lore, and this is the same case with Imperial Fist with the latest revelations as part of the Horus Heresy.
Thousand Sons also have beyond cool armor designs!
TLDR: Magnus didn't do everything wrong, give us Thousand Sons successors.
Iron warriors very popular but SoH / Luna Wolves where the best. So ofc you'd start off with them. They are an excellent fit for the needs of of the imperium at this moment
Great vid WLR! I enjoyed it and we came very close to the same conclusion. I would pick the sons of the Phoenix. They would have a lot of that loyalty/fanaticism the WBs would have, but the Children were known for being absolutely amazingly skilled, intelligent, brutal warriors, and I'd want that. They also have high psychic potential, maybe not a lot of them, but the ones that come about would have very high power potential. Last, the perfect clone of Fulgrim with his primark soul is out there in stasis, and if loyal sons were to come back into play I feel like the Primarks fate, the way reality can often bend around them in ways, would sooner than later bring Primark and new loyal sons together. That would be a .uch bigger boon for the Empire than any of the other groups combined almost.
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We already have a chapter of iron warriors and emperors children and maybe deathguard so I'd say world eaters. Without the butchers nails and a good leader, they'd be very useful as a shock legion butchering tyranids,orks and chaos. You'd have to keep them on a very short leash. The word bearers, thousand sons, and luna wolves are guaranteed to fall to chaos. The alpha legion would find out quick and infiltrate immediately. And I'm pretty sure having a terror legion(night lords) would not be the best idea at the moment.
Definitely the VIII Legion. I mean look at us. We hate chaos. We're pretty cool. You clearly got an omnibus about my boys and loved them. Now imagine if they were good guys
I'm surprised you didn't look more at the loyal legionaries of the fallen legions like Sal Garro and Loken to make your choices here.
Very interesting topic; it really goes into a "desperate times call for desperate measures" kind of mentality.
Personally, I'd go with Emperor's Children and Iron Warriors; both feature pure/stable gene-seed and would fit quite well in the current setting.
Iron Warriors are an obvious choice. Their prowess for attrition warfare (both defensive AND offensive) would benefit the Imperium immensely.
Emperor's Children would work very well as Chapters (perhaps even better than as a legion): small and flexible super elite marine forces that aim toward absolute perfection in everything (battle, strategy, etc.). Very curious to see what they'll do with the Sons of the Phoenix. I like the idea of them being the blueprint for a potential founding made with traitor gene-seed.
I am morbidly curious about potential Word Bearers successor chapters (though I think their gene-seed is quite corrupted by now); imagine fanatically loyal zealot marines (even more than the Black Templars) with a living saint as a chapter master or something crazy like that lol
As with many things in 40k, there is always an exception. You might know this, but there is actually one loyal Word Bearer, a dreadnought who is actually very important to the Ecclesiarchy (Apocalypse by Josh Reynolds, tbh I heard about it here and haven’t read it yet). Even though he is largely nonviolent, THAT guy could lead a new chapter of Word Bearers, or at least be part of the chain of command. They would be so strong, I totally agree. Forget Lorgar, praise the Emperor.
I'd say Alpha Legion, or Thousand Sons, there are no other Loyalist successors that can offer the type of service these two gene lines could gvien their unique skill sets. I also disagre strenuously that the Alpha Legion wouldn't be of use against Chaos, Chaos fights shadow wars and wars of infiltration and insurgency even more then their front line activities, given the size of the Imperium, and the Alpha Legion is still incredibly powerful on the front lines as they are in the back drop. I definitely think they do better then the Night Lords in that regard because in war they fight more like a combination of the Ravenguard and Iron Hands with overwhelming firepower, rapid speed and coordinated precision. The Night Lords success against the Dark Angels is contingent on them avoiding direct or straight up engagements because when that happened they got utterly smashed whereas the Alpha Legion nearly broke the Space Wolves, had the White Scars contained, and overwhelmed a contingent of Iron Warriors at the First Battle of Paramar not even including the Drop Site Massacre whose strategy is largely attributed to them.
Night Lords. Especially if GW wants all of my money
Kinda fitting, I'm trying to come up with a homebrew chapter for each (thus far, got symbols for 6(3rd,8th,12th,15th,17th,20th legion respectively), definite name for 2(8th and 12th), and out of ideas on 3(4th,14th,16th)). Incidentally, Arch warhammer did a video on a similar topic (which legion geneseed would be safest to return, his conclusion was iron warriors provided they get a pat on the shoulder/head and "well done", others not so much, mostly what if they meet their traitor brothers/primarchs).
Personally, any/all of them if able. Especially the missing primarchs (I hate that part of lore that they are "missing", I wish to know).
I feel like the Alpha Legion deserves a higher spot on the list. Not because of their front line combat abilities, but because of their ability to act as a force multiplier and deal with problems before they grow out of control. Who needs the assassinorum or inquisition when you have astartes spy masters keeping sectors in line
Keeping people in line is underrated.
But Chaos has both Alpha Legion and Night Lords. Both love being in the shadows. One is monitoring, assassinating and scheming its own insurgencies. Think CIA. The other terrorizes people into compliance. Sort of a KGB secret police.
Either could be argued to fill that role.
I am with you on the emperors children, and surprisingly the word bearers. But somehow I bet Guillemen would have a very hard time giving that order. I can see a practical need for space marines needed who are more resilient and in breaking in holding imperial worlds from the grinding attrition and that would be far better with some iron warrior and death guard bloodlines, at least reinforcing worlds that are more vital. I see them deploying in near chapter strength every engagement, but maybe with modified tactics and diplomacy they may find themselves valuable allies to imperial guard regiments. I see where the order would come down for thousand sons to be made, but I also see them having to be in grey knight equipment in order to maybe have a hope of offsetting the flesh change. But maybe with the warp more active they could be wiped out far more quickly. Or maybe they have more blank serfs than other chapters. As for the sons of Horus. I see Guillemen making a chapter of them, calling them the Luna Wolves, just the throw off Abaddon. That would be hilarious
Love your content Rho but I literally created a full list of homebrew chapters based on this exact thing hahaha 😂 nicknamed them the absolution chapters
I'm kind of in love with the idea of a judge dredd esq night lords group that exist as imperial law ultimatums
Pertarabo always had such stable and resilient astartes
Death guard pre-Mortarion. The Dusk Raiders.
Id go with death guard, remarkably resilient individual Marines would fare perfectly in this new galaxy, surviving wounds no other geneline could
There is a strong argument for the world eaters eith the agression they had, but the wolves of fenris hit that point.
The Lunar wolves were also known for thier violence but also for being more controlled than the eaters of worlds. Its unknown personally how much of that was Horus's strategic mind.
The word bearers at more or less just zealous ultramarines and without the influence of Erebus or Kor Phaeron they might be an excellent option.
I dont think the corpse grinders of old in the iron warriors are a particularly good choice given thier limited doctrine before perty and even after Perty, but considering a couple of thier standouts I could be wrong.
The Thousand Sons are IMO disqualified because of the flesh change, unless cawl could fix that. If fixed they would be number 1 choice but the fix would have to be PERFECT.
The night lords are also an interesting option but they were more a force for complaince than a prepper campaigning force.
The Emperor's Children are an excellent option, they were good fighters and excellent at defeating champions in conjunction with a larger force.
Mortarion's sons could also be a good option, the endurance to give the Iron warriors a run for thier money with enough tactical flexibility to not fall into a trap of using just one option.
And finally the Alpha legion doesn't need a founding because they are of course, still loyal.
I would argue that the alpha legion is the best choice. Fighting chaos and xenos in the shadows before it all spills out in all out war. Costing men and material. There is no front line, without a solid base.
You could have complementary traitor legion stock used to bolster particular chapters, not creating completely new ones but something more similar to a joint task force something around a quarter chapter strength that is meant to supplement the inherent weaknesses within particular chapters, but still be small enough, that if they do fall, they can be contained by the Larger, loyalist chapter and if the loyalist chapter once up going trader, they should be large enough to allow the rest of the imperium to react and interject into the situation. Like, having ultramarines Fight alongside a contingent of world eater successors, who are closer to their pre-heresy selves or blood angels being bolstered by death guard do you know covering the weaknesses of the Loyless chapters.
Alpha legion would be prime. Always underrated. The imperium needs special forces who are everywhere and nowhere. The Imperium can summon armies. It needs a force multiplier.
For the Luna Wolves, think to how they got their name. They were so powerfully ferocious that the gene-witches of the moon pleaded with the Emperor to call off his wolves. That was before Horus.
You should do a video on which traitor primarch could be cleaned and redeemed by the emperor and how that could change the setting.
If angron was going to overlap with vulcan, why was his chapter so savage?
I would like to point out that some of the legions have changed their roles and actions in the cursade once they met their primarchs. If anything it isn't the geneseed that was/is currupted because most of the traitor legions had to purge the "loyaltist" from their ranks which if im not mistaken was mostly tarrain stock. so if deciding on which geneseed would be best, we would need to look at the geneseed before them meeting their primarch. then we would need to look at the stock that they would be pulling recruits from.
Luna Wolves, easy, next question
the world eaters before their primarch were an unstable version of a pre gabriel seth flesh tearers and knights of blood dialed up to 11
I Think the Dusk Raiders would be a good choice.
Night Lords: Because I'm a fanboy and any rational reasons won't get through to me
At least you’re honest. ADN
Seems like there is a heavy Iron Warrior consensus which makes sense given the stability but i personally think a loyalist Word Bearer under the Anchorite, combined with Templars and Sister of battle crusade would be kick ass.
With the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus successors, I continue to uphold my headcanon that the Astral Claws were just that. And they were actually pretty amazing prior to the events of the Wardens war with the Imperium. I mean, they had their own *successors!*
Excellent video. No way Gulliman would accept Word Bearers gene seed for three important reasons, one: Gulliman knows the ecclesiarchy is the single greatest rival to his control over the empire, the word bearers would end up as their private army eventually, second: Gulliman once before made the mistake of giving word bearers the benefit of the doubt and it almost killed him and destroyed Catith, he won’t make that mistake again, third: the ultramarines would not allow such an affront to their chapter and the 500 worlds by reinstatement of the word bearers. I think either the lunar wolves or emperor’s children are the safe choice, a coin flip. The best choice to me would be the thousand Sons but to minimize the risk spread them among all the chapters as librarians whenever their physic abilities allow, librarians are rare, backfilling with thousand Sons gene seed would be a tremendous advantage. The flesh change could be managed just as the the curses are in the space wolves and blood angels, especially since the librarians are a specialist unit and could be monitored. They’d be like tech marines in a way
Plot twist: the Black Templars replaced all their Imperial Fists geneseed with Word Bearer geneseed thousands of years ago.
Death guard were known to be one of the most resilient marines pre-heresy.
My first impulse was Iron Warriors, but loyalist Death Guard would be great too.
I’m sure the Ecclesiarchy would love to have a few chapters of Word Bearers at their beck and call…
III & XV are automatically out because of their historical geneseed problems.
XVI is a possibility & let’s not forget their conquest of Luna where they earned their original sobriquet (that was done without Horus). Unfortunately their tendency to resemble Horus would be unsettling for Roboute & the Lion.
IV could be a good option & if they were held to the codex they could probably keep their losses under control while being preeminent siege masters.
XIV could be another where their inherent resilience could pay dividends if they were utilized more thoughtfully rather than thrown into the meat grinder.
VIII were intended as terror troops. Their primarch just made them sadists on top of that. I could easily see them being the pet chapter of an Inquisitor.
I agree about XII, they were brutal killing machines before the nails.
XX is a problem because you’d always be wondering if they’d been infiltrated by the traitor legion
XVII is the only viable option IMO. Used properly & with some oversight they’ll be zealous crusaders for the Emperor.
the emperors childrens geneseed problems were an infection, not an inherent problem with the geneseed itself, so Cawl should have had no difficulty with that. The only way I see him using thousand sons would be to hybridize the geneseed with a more stable strain, but why do that when Word Bearers had high stability and high psychic potential simultaneously?
I'd have to vote for Iron Warriors or Deathguard, right now the Imperium could just use tough bastards that can do just about any task, and they need to make every life (especially Astartes life) count. I know, rating toughness over martial proficiency (Emperor's Children, Luna Wolves) might be controversial, but with the variety of foes and environments, the variety of tasks..... as I said, tough bastards are needed, who don't die easy.