Fighting Men of Rhodesia ep19 | John Gartner 3rd talk
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- čas přidán 16. 01. 2021
- Welcome to a series of interviews with the Fighting Men of Rhodesia as Hannes Wessels & I try to record the war stories of these outstanding warriors.
The Rhodesian forces produced some of the finest fighting soldiers and airmen of the era and John Gartner, who served in the SAS & Selous Scouts, is one of those men.
Should you wish to purchase John's book "The Fading Light" click here:
www.warbooks.co.za/search?q=f...
Or www.amazon.com/Fading-Light-J...
For those who wish to obtain Hannes Wessels' books please check out:
www.exmontibusmedia.co.za/
Or check out his blog at:
africaunauthorised.com/
Music by Epidemic Sound:
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
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John, your memory is vivid. I was the SB guy at Mashumbi and days earlier I had established the use of the Zanla route to the major Zanla base camp at Chintopo, the confluence of the Angwa/Hunyani. I wrote of the locating of the groups tracks whilst infiltrating with their land mines - The Angwa Croc. I remained at Mashumbi with, I think it was Bob MacKenzie. One small thing sticks out in my mind; one of the choppers at Mashumbi couldn't lift off from my base after Wolfgang had stabilized the two wounded, resulting in a short bumpy ride to the bush strip and standby Dak. Runaway gun, I was told was the reason for a cookoff. Shitty ammo coming out of SA munitions PMP. It could also have been a faulty MAG. Great input, keep them coming. Salute. (Remember, badza's/hoes were landmine tools).
Legends. Men of Men never to be seen again. What a time it was.Thanks and Respect
Every fighting man in the world should listen to 24:00 especially.
John you are a hero and a legend.
Thank you for your service John. Salute.
Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated
Thank you John for your service to Rhodesia and helping those poor unfortunate men.
And thanks for your own positive response, Christina, much appreciated
ooohhh another with John... I can listen to this guy all day
Thanks, much appreciated
We owe you and the okes a huge debt of gratitude Mr Gartner. It seems all those countries that stabbed you in the back are getting a taste of it today. Lighties today need to hear these stories of being a Man amongst Men. More than ever.
The real, the truth, the honesty. What brave men you still are John. Thank you!
Great series of interviews/stories from a different era.
Feeling much the same way about South African situation we find ourselves in now
Greatest respect for you coming out here to assist.
Your belief 100% vindicated
SADF 82/84
Thanks once again John for your interesting experiences in war time .. it’s never easy and at times unfortunate and unforgiving . Kill or be killed is generally the best way of survival . No one wins in war sadly . My respect goes out to all you guys who put your lives on the line and sadly some paid the ultimate price . Appreciate you sharing your stories . And the last part of your talk is so very true .. what a waste of life but for a good cause . International interference was the downfall of Rhodesia .
Salute John, we had an Aussie in Greys who like you was the old bloke lol! Another great bloke and one of the best shots out, he too married a Rhodesian girl and they now live in Collie WA. I'm in FNQ and Australia has become my 2nd home.
Thanks 👍
Gidday John, mate
I'm at a loss for words, mate. Truely, don't know what to say.
You had a job, you did it, nothing more to say.
If only we South Africans had learnt from your lessons, we wouldn't be in the deep sh!t we find ourselves today.
Mate, from a bloke you've never met, you are a legend!
God bless,
Dave
Thanks Dave. It was a cause and something we all believed in. Since then, we've been forced to make our lives elsewhere but Rhodesia will always sit in a corner of our hearts and minds
@@johngartner6026 Cheers for the reply, John.
I've been living in NZ these last 25 years.
When next I'm in Perth, I'd love to get a signed copy of your book, mate.
It would also be an honour to shake your hand!
God bless,
Dave
@@davehowell6453 happy to catch up when travel restrictions ease and you can get over this way
@@johngartner6026 Cheers John
Excellent episode. Great to hear a little of the back story and daily grind, always being on standby, poor humint and lack of understanding from some of the brass regarding the mindsets and fatigue of the boys on the ground. Staggering and yes, completely vindicated and justified post 80, just as we told them.
At this stage I’m hitting the ‘like’ button on these videos before I even watch them.
Me too!!!
Respect.
Respect
Another Great Episode. Thanks John (love your shirt) Thanks to John VZ and Hannes Wessels
John, thanks for sharing this fascinating story. I agree with your assessment of PTSD, Rhodesians fought to secure their own country, and Rhodesians were; and continue to be proud of their fighting men, as can be seen from the comments below. Sadly, 700 Australian Defense Force members have taken their lives since 2001. I salute Sir.
Yes this is the tragedy. I don't really understand why there is such a high high suicide toll of veterans in Australia, no doubt there are factors not all of which are war related. it's why it is such a sensitive subject but I do know from my own career and those of my friends who are also still "following the drum" in one way or another, all have dealt with any personal demons in their own way.
Thanks John. Martin Pearce (RIP) was my troop commander 6 Troop, 2 Commando, 1RLI.
Martin was a good man, a fine young officer
yes, RIP: we knew the family. I think his father was Maj Pearce and served in the Korean war. could be wrong
John I wasn't SAS or any special forces but I was in the Rhodesia Regiment posted to 1 Indep Wankie for my NS and joined the Regular Army afterwards. Luckily I never had to deal with the things you did but I, like all the others, was ready to do what ever it took. If I had my time again I would definitely have applied for SAS or Selous Scouts. Salute.
Hi Eddie. Everyone who served in the Rhodesian Security Forces contributed to the defence of the country, in my view equally.
I’ve just finished your excellent book John and thoroughly enjoying it. Cass seems to be a remarkable person too
Thanks for reading the book, I appreciate you taking the time. Yes Cass is a typical strong willed, independent Rhodesian woman.
Its one of the best I've read and I've read all of them. Koevoet books zulu zulu are also pretty good, I went from scout book to that an those and you can correlate
Good understanding for those who thought they knew about what actually happened but didn’t. Good job to all of you who participate in this, I have much respect for you all!!
Excellent insight from John. Respect mate.
BRILLIANT !!!
Thanks for the complimentary comment, I do appreciate all the feedback
Colonel Darryl Van Zyl, who I served with, new the reality what a great guy
Thank you for your service.
John I was very moved by your closing words. Thank you for your unstinting support of our country and its people. You fought the good fight but were robbed by unscrupulous and uncaring, corrupt politicians.
Yes. A tragedy when I look at Zimbabwe now, and the ineptitude and corruption of its leadership, and the deprivation its inhabitants now endure through poor governance and theft of resources.
A vivid cameo, with all the accompanying discomfort, the smells and frustrations. Yes what followed, post 1980s did indeed vindicate all the Rhodies fought for. In fact, look at what is happening in the US right now, for us to know that the globalists were not going to give us a fighting chance.
Agreed. Rhodesia (after Portugal's African colonies) was targeted as the first Western (White) nation to be destroyed as a domino falls. We can now see the plan was destruction of the White Western first world. Now, faking 'a new germ terrorist' to fear, the rest of the West is being brought down to 3rd world status and their culture/roots destroyed through Cultural Marxism so that the BIS international bankers' One World Dictatorship coup d'etat can succeed against us all. My hope is that the White Western male worldwide will resist to prevent it. They need but look to our Rhodesian men spirit for inspiration (same genes after all). That's why these series, books etc on the Rhodesian Bush War are so vital right now.
what followed, post-1980s did indeed vindicate all the Rhodies fought for- if memory serves me right what followed was reconciliation and reconstruction. Economic power was still in the hands of the wealthy few and the problematic question of land redistribution was not addressed. It is common for aftershocks to occur after an earthquake. Happened after WW2 when east vs west nearly brought the world to nuclear meltdown. After partition of Ireland in the 1920s there has been cross border guerilla activity by IRA since the 1940s not to mention the the northern Ireland troubles in the 50s and 60s. After 1st gulf war, Saddam became more powerful. After the Iraq invasion, there was more lawlessness and killing in Iraq by multiple revenge militia. After the invasion of Afghanistan and the departure of foreign troops, as we speak, the Taliban are gaining ground. What is happening in Zim is nothing unique following conflict. If Zimbabwe turns its economic situation round and there is political reform, does that then annul the vindication of the Rhodesians cause? Is the general thinking among Rhodesians that Africans cannot manage a country and that it is better off in their hands?
@@whiskettango An interesting response, Craig. A large issue enunciated by so many Zanu and Zapu spokesmen was that of land, but the later land 'redistribution' (post 2000) appears to have been restricted to Zanu affiliates, not the 'masses'. The same was demonstrated in the USSR, Maoist China, Cuba, Venezuela and other communist counties. The real and underlying motive driving the leaders of all those countries, was a struggle for power, not a concern for the 'proletariat'. The tendency was to duplicate the failings of the previous regimes and then add some more.
Lenin, for instance, replicated Tsarist 'state security' instruments. My memory is that the Cheka preceded the KGB and each refined instruments of interrogation, surveillance and torture, the very instruments they themselves hated.
The 'troubles' in northern Ireland are too complex to examine here, but I entirely agree with your assessment of Iraq and Saddam Hussein and the hideous aftermath.
@@warty3620 both China and Russia experienced their aftershocks and terrible was the road to some kind of stability. I know they both don't have good track records as to how they deal with opponents but...Today they are both superpowers with big voices in WHO and UN. we can go on to say they hold the balance of power. I would like to think Zim is going through its own aftershocks and in time there will be a resolution. I have only arrived at that conclusion through observation of other countries following a conflict. I'm happy that the civil war that nearly happened was avoided. Zim would probably have been worse off had that happened. During the reconciliation period, the destabilising activities of S.A 1980-89 did worsen Zim political and economic vulnerabilities. S.A and Portugal sponsored Renamo did their fair share of damage in the 1980s. the land seizures were hurried and ill-thought and that led to sanctions which made things worse. Mismanagement and corruption play a part, yes but I'm not convinced it's down to that alone. There is mismanagement and corruption in every country in the world and their economies don't collapse. Ours is the only country the world over said to have had economic collapse through mismanagement and corruption. From the get-go post-independence, Zim was not let off lightly, it was one thing after another. Let's see how much damage China will do now.
@@whiskettango 'Ours is the only country the world over'? What country is that?
Thank you for another great ep.
Glad you enjoy it!
Thanks John for your experiences once again. What I take from your presentations is the human compassion you show in your ultimate professionalism as a great soldier. Just as a side, I remember the airforce changed tack and started using nets hanging below the chopper to carry the bodies back to SB. This had 2 benefits in so much it kept the chopper clean but also the aircraft used to fly low over villages and the sight of the net filled with bodies would act as a deterrent hopefully. John v Z, do you remember this?
I do. When I first started we had to put the bodies into bags and load them onto the chopper. Being a new troopie it was my job to load a dozen or so bodies. Not fun at all when they'd been lying in the hot Mocambique sun for several hours. The nets were much more efficient and less stressful all raound.
@@fightingmenofrhodesia Thanks John...glad I wasn't going loopy and was remembering something I had seen in a movie. I remember the bags as well...they were plastic and any lingering white phos quickly saw to the plastic!!
i lived in Chiredzi and once during sports in the afternoon a chooper flew over with a net and droped it from a height at the police station which was just across the road and then flew a couple times around the field quite low made our day .
@@belindaklein467 I love the way it made your day..........😂😂😂
No pun intended.....Rhodesians who ended up in South Africa were jokingly referred to as "When We's". My father (SAP) who is in his 80's now had 2 trips to Rhodesia, both tours he was stationed at Wankie. As a young man (after Mugabe took power) I remember Rhodesians buying some farms close to us, they where Tobacco Growers just like the rest of the farmers in the area. I remember them telling stories of Rhodesia all the time, my father hated the place because his friend got blown up by a landmine and he ended up in a missionary tent hospital for contracting Malaria. After a day or 2 he got transferred to the hospital in Vic Falls. My dad got more than 2000 colour slides he took while in Rhodesia but he refuses to let go of it, it will make a beautiful coffee table book of how Rhodesia looked during the 1960's and early 70's, what a beautiful place it USE to be.
I hope you manage to convince your father that his photos will find a very interested audience if he ever decides to show them. I'm sorry to hear he has some bad memories of Rhodesia through losing a friend there, the SAP contribution was always appreciated by those who lived in Rhodesia, as we had few other international friends willing to support us. Many thanks for your comment
John Thankyou and all RLI, SAS, Selous Scouts, Greys ,RAR ,PATU Police Support unit from one of the older ones RR
And thanks to you too for your own commitment and contribution. The RR were fine units
@@johngartner6026 Great to have met you John, Albeit on social media. You bring back vividly the sense of dedication ,sights sounds and experiences we went thru',in various degrees in RR ,tribute to my wife , looking after kids and business, with no complaint. Especially when they extended call ups towards the end, sometimes 6 weeks. A number of my family now live in Aus. I have been trying to contact Colonel Darryl Van Zyl, ex SAS, met him at JOC Sinoia. Did you know him? Thanks again Hudson
Good one !!
Glad you liked it Dave
Thanks Dave - a bit belated in saying thanks I know, but I appreciate the input. This upload seems not to have fired the viewing public up as much as the first two did. Viewer numbers are down noticeably. I like the concept of presenting our stories but maybe three uploads are too much. People get a little bored perhaps and are looking for other points of view. Thanks though to all who have watched this and the earlier two.
Great Story
Thanks Clay, I enjoyed reminiscing, taking another trip down memory lane. Getting old is a curse for sure
@@johngartner6026 courage inspiring stories for sure
Will you be able to interview Simon Mpofu or any other black Selous Scout Operators?
Steven mpofu
@@andre51286 thanks, but the question still stands
@Wesley-Mark Jonsson czcams.com/video/oL8CEp8dGiU/video.html
Interesting. Since you served in both the Aussie SAS and Rhodesian SAS, wanted to ask, were their standards different between them since both were SAS? Were the units any different in terms of training, doctrine, weapons, tactics and doctrine or they were just the same? Was any unit better than the other? Then compared to the selous scouts, wch unit would u say was more elite and efficient in the war, the Selous Scouts or the sAS?
Where is your book for sale? Great listening to you again, respect for what you guys did!
Check in the video description for where to get the book
@@fightingmenofrhodesia Both links don't work.
@@tigershoot try now. I've renewed both links. Not sure how that happened..🙏🏼
They do now - thanks
Thats the deal, that's what you have to do
Exactly.
Lowloaders carrying tracked vehicles crossing the Ruvuma river from Tanzania to Mozambique, even Hannibal would wait until the engineers had finished.
Of course, but as I said, we need to respond to the intelligence of the day and that was the essence of my short description of the way we did respond, always ready to go. Thanks for listening
I never saw PTSD, 5th Batt and 2 Indep Chirundu
I'm reluctant to be critical of this modern trend because it's very sensitive, men respond to war and stress in different ways. In my own wide network of professional soldiers who fought across multiple theatres, I know of no one who struggled/struggle with what they saw or experienced. From my own point of view, Special Forces soldiers know what they are getting themselves into, they serve because this is what they want to do, and when they finish their service, most go on to rewarding and challenging careers without too much song and dance.
14:05
Is this admitting to war crimes? just a question.
love your channel!
The crime is committed when men take up arms, kill innocent civilians to terrorize defenceless communities in order to coerce support. The tables are turned when they then come into contact with armed soldiers who can fight back, take the initiative, and kill them, eliminating the threat of further terrorism against those defenceless communities. No crime there at all - combat situations throw up their own peculiar dynamics. Those insurgents were heavily armed, but on that day they were outfought by better quality troops, and died in the bush because of that inequality in combat readiness and efficiency levels
@@johngartner6026 what an astute, intelligent and level-headed reply. The modern day wars of mis-information, mis-appropriation and misunderstandings await the talents of Rhoddie veterans like yourself. As always needs to be said John, I and my family are indebted to warriors like you and heartfelt thanks for your service and sacrifice.
@@Sitnominedigna517 Thanks for taking the time to watch the channel, and to read comments and answer with your own comment. Appreciated. It is too easy to sit on the sidelines and make negative comment about what is and is not acceptable in a war fighting scenario, things are rarely black and white, mostly a lot of grey areas. It's like public commentary on my book - mostly I have had five star reviews from across my Special Forces and broader military network, but I received a single one-star review, without comment, denying me the chance to understand what that reviewer disliked about my writing effort. Life is difficult, I have learned that from experience, and things worth having are certainly worth fighting for. Rhodesia is the main case in point.
11:05 - this was a friendly fire incident?
In military terminology, when I served with the Australian Army, such events were called accidental discharges (AD), in Rhodesia it was more accurately called negligent discharges (ND). I have no idea of the reason for the burst that injured one and killed another, but regardless, it was negligence.
@@johngartner6026 😩😢