Stephen Fry to Catholic - Are you getting the message!?
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- čas přidán 10. 11. 2022
- I do not own this clip. The full debate can be found by searching "Is the catholic church a force for good?"
#atheist #stephenfry #christopherhitchens #richarddawkins #reasoning #science
If you haven't already, watch the whole debate. Hitch and Fry a dream team. The vote at the end surmises the quality of their argument.
Yeah but it’s not fair having those on the same team is it…
@@whynot217 you debate the arguments. Not the person. Didn't matter tge opponent
I saw it when first aired, Quinton. Impeccable rationale.
Not really, the crowd was overwhelming ant theist to begin with. It would be far more impressive if the crowd was more split, but these two are legends and their arguments have yet to be debunked (nor will they ever be)
@@ashtonhaggitt216 there was a before and after vote though
Fry calls out one of the worst and most empty-headed excuses for a counter-argument we keep seeing over and over again from bad-faith debaters: "You keep repeating the same complaints and we're tired of it". Yes, because _you never DO anything about them, and WE'RE tired of it!_
no, the onus is on them to stop it.
@@glutamate5886 Sorry, grammar's a bit confusing here: who is the "them" in this context? I hope I didn't accidently imply that I thought Fry was MAKING the bad argument; what I meant was he was calling it out.
"I knew you would bring up genocide and war crimes" probably Goering at Nurnberg
75 million people died in WWII, Jews are NOT special because of WWII
@@dafrasier1 you are special though, cognitively speaking
@@davidesguario9729 focus, scope, logic, REALITY. No magic guy in sky.
burn people alive at the stake : holy holy holy Insanity. BAD catholics.
Göring...Nuremberg...
@@iwishiwasananteater.3205 certainly NOT Nurburg, the Ring.
Italian Catholic Fascists, Catholic Germany. WWII a Religious War ?
Japan, Emperor, God on Earth Amen. Religious War, and Corrupt Catholic So Vietnam
Honestly was such a mismatch for the debate, Widdecombe has about as much nuance and debating talent as a yapping chihuahua - being loud and obnoxious and refusing to listen to the other side is not how you debate people.
Well when you have no reasonable argument but you’re an absolute gutter head set in your believes then it’s your only course of action.
Whenever I see Ann Widdecombe on a panel discussion all she does is say rot to anything she doesn't agree with like a petulant 1950s schoolteacher who no one listens too anymore.
@@striker8961
Well I would say there were good points made by that sad occasionally it’s just that they were drastically outweighed.
At the very least the Archbishop was decent instead of shrieking and hollering.
This wasn’t a fair debate to begin with… Anne Widdicombe!! 😂
Her voice makes me want to rip my own ears off and hurl them into next week 😬
She spent most of the debate blinking, and the other half stuttering "ahhh-uhhhh-eeeeh".
Then she went and said three Hail Mary,s and did her Rosary
I’d say it was more unfair because Stephen Fry was in it, it was more atheist v Catholic than Anti v Catholic. I doubt Christopher Hitchens would have wanted to debate against the Catholic Church with an Anti-Catholic Protestant. It would be weird for him to have argued with a religious person against a denomination of the same religion.
She sounds like a monty python character 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Close to 2000 years of aggressive assertion and lively debate. And yet still, even in the 21st century, so many people are still asking that burning question in relation to the Vatican:
"Is he, or isn't he?"
What's that question? Is he or isn't he dipping his lollipop in some underage chocolate pots?
@@borstenpinselwell I’m this particular debate, the question is “is the Catholic Church a force for good in the world?”
Maybe it's Maybelline.
@@borstenpinsel Close, borstenpinsel, but not a coconut. Still, you take away a consolation prize. No (to the surprise of many, I guess) the answer to the burning question isn't related to pedovotion (whether as a vocation or a past-time). Keep guessing though 😁
@@ThePapaDragon Nope. It's in relation to the Vatican and the main inhabitant thereof (the question being asked, that is). Anyway, "force" would have to imply that it holds power, which is questionable. Global influence yes, but real power in the 21st century is debatable. And "good", well, very difficult to define exactly what "good" really is. Still, thanks for trying.
Religion does more harm than good. And the few good things religion could do is not exclusive to a religion.
Religion does more harm than good. And the few good things that religion does do is not exclusive to them alone, they exist within the capabilities and desires of many entities and people. In fact religion's ability to do good in the world is limited and diminished by their world view. They are less likely to contribute to the progress of sciences, woman's rights, gay rights, reproductive rights and human rights in general.
The behaviour of many of the Christian Church's administrators proves the NON-existence of their God.
This is as good as it ever gets.........the end!
I'm a Catholic ( a non believer yet still a catholic pace Dara O'Briain) and bravo Stephen Fry
If you don't believe you're not a catholic. Terms and definitions matter, they're not just words you know.
@@taserrr it was a joke
@@taserrr According to the Catholic Church, if you are baptized at one month old, the Vatican owns you forever. There was a process for leaving the Catholic Church in Ireland but it proved too popular so the Church closed it down.
@@oreganoregan5947 I'm an atheist, I didn't realize he was kidding and thought he was one of those theists who say they believe and conveniently say they don't believe in all the bad things. You can't pick and choose if you call yourself a catholic you know.
You're not a catholic then dimwit.
You’re asking people to care for one another?
That’s the one thing people are the most successful at, not caring.
Salient point, Charlotte 🙂
Which ironically is a core tenet of most modern Christian groups
@@theirishviking9278 That’s Hope clubs for ya…💋
And Hitchens laughs. :)
Fry Knows all
Whats the full debate called?
Edit: just read description
Stephen Fry is my man crush
Has he been this way to other religions?
The Reason Why people Call out the Evil within the Church is Because they matter to people’s hearts 💕 and Souls Stephen Fry is Absolutely Correct ✅
Full video:
m.czcams.com/video/JZRcYaAYWg4/video.html
Full version
czcams.com/video/JZRcYaAYWg4/video.html
There is a difference between believing in God, and in believing in the men who say that they speak for God. And it is an important difference.
indeed. however, this debate was about the latter.
the latter requires the former. why else would one assume to be a spokesperson for something one believe is real?
@@neiltristanyabut the first is about believing that there's some form of rightness in the universe that makes it all worth it
The second is believing that that fucker over there knows it better than you do
@@theirishviking9278 doesn't contradict my question really
@@neiltristanyabut you don't necessarily need to believe in what he's saying just as long as you believe he knows what he's saying
It's kinda (sort of at least) like if you followed someone around a city because they say they know where there going
No I don't think they're getting the message since there are people who know about the church scandals and still want to be Catholic.
If you believe in God then you believe a beaver is a fish.
Well, if you go back far enough in evolution.... Oh just a minute, we can't use evolution to argue about religion.
You win!
If you're a gay atheist, you believe men can have babies. Just as stupid as your trite observation...
@@margaretgrace713 Never has any gay person or any atheists ever claimed that men can have babies
@@harveysmith100 Never??? I live in an ultraliberal university town. They're rampant in my neighborhood alone. Go figure...
They never mentioned that you meet a 19 YO taxi driver.
met*
and who cares?
is 19 not consenting where you're from?
listening to celebrities..
Yes. Celebrities are the ones with platforms. If we listened to anyone else, they would be celebrities instead.
I love Stephen Fry, but I'm disappointed he did not mention the fact that the Nazi movement was a "Christian"/Catholic movement with policies taken directly from Catholic Church doctrine: The idea that "the Jews killed Christ," passion plays to drum up hatred towards Jews, book bans/burning, hatred of intellectuals and LGBTQ community (6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, but we never mention the additional 4 million gays, trans, intellectuals, immigrants, and minorities the Nazis killed).
“I am now, as before, a Catholic and will always remain so.” - Adolf Hitler 1941
“We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity - our movement is Christian” - Adolf Hitler 1928
“I believe that today I am acting in the sense of the almighty creator. By warding off the Jews, I am doing the Lord’s work.” - Adolf Hitler 1936
“My feelings as a Christian point me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man once in loneliness surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but a fighter!” -- Adolf Hitler 1922
“If there is anything which could demonstrate we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows, for as a Christian, I have a duty to my own people.” - Adolf Hitler 1922
“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of almighty creator!” - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
“This human world of ours is inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.” - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
Adolf Hitler also said Islam was the superior religion due to its hatred of Jews and that Christianity was too "meek and flabby". So you should really start to understand that Hitler said whatever was useful at the time. He personally far preferred Nordic Paganism.
So that's why Stephen Fry didn't mention it. It's not worth mentioning because most of it is cherrypicking.
It's NOT "cherry picking" and Stephen Fry has been VERY critical of the Catholic Church and I commend him for it. There has never been a more immoral and criminal organization in history that has caused more pain and suffering than the Catholic Church...
1. The Church fomented hatred of Jews from its inception by putting on passion plays and including the idea that "the Jews killed Christ" as official Catholic doctrine until the Vatican II in the 1960s.
2. Two Popes conspired with the Nazi Party to allow Jews to be taken to extermination camps and some concentration camps were run by the Catholic Church. The Church was one of the first to recognize the Nazi movement as legitimate and the Nazis literally promoted policies in line with Catholic doctrine. We have the letters exposing the collusion and we know there are many more much more damning the Church will never release. This shouldn't be a surprise considering the hundreds of thousands the Church murdered (including Jews) during the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions.
3. The Church is a literal hate group that spreads hatred of gays and the LGBTQ community despite being the biggest den of pedophiles on earth. People cannot help their sexuality, their race, etc., but they can help joining a hate group that uses their members money to move pedophile priests and prevent protective measures like the Child Victim Protection Act from passing because it would allow millions to seek justice against decades of priest abuses.
4. The Church STILL tells AIDS ravaged countries it's a "sin" to wear condoms! The Church still says it's "sin" for a 9-year-old rape victim to abort her rapist's incest baby!
5. We just witnessed an investigation of 2,000 allegations of sexual abuse in New Orleans Catholic Churches!
5. The Church has always been profoundly anti-science and killed hundreds of thousands of intellectuals such as Hypatia, Giordano Bruno who was a monk who stated stars could be distant suns with their own planets.
6. I have personally witnessed public school Catholic teachers attempt to sow doubt about confirmed science fact which holds back students including those who wish to be scientists.
7. The Church STILL launders the money of mafias, drug money, and other mob-related earnings through the Vatican Church!
8. I would NEVER judge a group based on my personal experiences, but the Catholics I have known have been the most abusive hypocrites I have ever encountered in my life. Gold-diggers, cheats, wife-beaters, etc. The ONLY abusive girlfriend I ever had was from a Catholic family where the father beat his wife and cheated on her. I don't know if you worship money due to the opulence of the church or if you hurt people because you know you can say a few "Hail Marys" and do it all over again, but look at the following Catholics and tell me how the Church makes decent people.
• Adolf Hitler (Self-described Catholic - most Nazi policy derived from Catholic Church’s pre-1960’s Vatican Council doctrines: hatred of Jews and gays, book burning, anti-intellectualism, etc. Worked with Catholic Church to address the Church’s doctrine that “the Jews killed Christ” by initiating a final solution to the “Jewish question.”).
• Pope Pius XI (Supported Hitler and allowed Catholic-run concentration camps).
• Pope Pius XII (Refused to denounce Hitler and allowed Catholic-run concentration camps).
• Mother Teresa (Refused to administer medications to many of the sick she “cared” for because she believed “suffering was good for the soul” even though she never refused such medications when she was hospitalized while being cared for by the best doctors in the world, spent only a very small percentage of donations given to aid the sick and poor while funneling most of the donations to the Church and Vatican Bank).
• Mia Farrow (Got impregnated twice by two married men, driving the wife of one to try to commit suicide and lied about Woody Allen molesting her daughter going so far as to coach her very young child to say she was molested. She refused to take a lie detector test while Woody passed two of them, and for some reason desperately wanted to continue to star in Woody’s films after she accused him of molesting her daughter).
• John Wayne (Made endless racist statements even into the 1970s, helped the House UnAmerican Activities Commission destroy numerous innocent lives and families, supported unjust wars while never fighting in justified ones like his liberal co-stars and directors did in WWII).
• Kim Kardashian (Vacuous “celebrity” from a money-obsessed family willing to do anything to profit from self-promotion even through “leaked” sex tapes and “event” marriages only lasting a few months).
• Clark Gable (Allegedly raped and impregnated co-star Loretta Young).
• Bill O’Reilly (Extraordinarily hateful man who has sexually harassed numerous female employees, demeaned and verbally abused those he considers beneath him such as underlings and service workers for no reason and has also cheated on spouses).
• Heather Bresch (Purchased rights to life saving medications and then price gouged those medications by hundreds and hundreds per drug to give herself a $15 million raise).
• Joe Manchin (Refused to increase minimum wage to $15 per hour even though most other advanced countries have minimum wages between $15 and $22 per hour, refused to approve the continuation of child tax credit checks resulting in a 38% increase in child poverty in a single month’s time - the United States has the highest childhood poverty rate in the advanced world due to a deplorably, DEPLORABLY low minimum wage and profit-based healthcare which causes healthcare costs to increase at three times the rate of wages).
• Mark Wahlberg (Beat an Asian shopkeeper half to death blinding him in one eye and then beat another Asian man a block away due to racist motives and has never apologized for it nor offered the families of those he beat a single dime of his tens of millions of dollars).
• Mel Gibson (Extremely misogynist, homophobic, and antisemitic due to his being a staunch Roman Catholic who believes in the Catholic Church’s doctrines pre-the 1960’s Vatican Council - still believes the Jews are responsible for killing Jesus and are responsible for all wars).
• Glen Beck (Insane conspiracy theorist).
• Madonna (Self-absorbed narcissist).
• Spencer Tracy (Cheated on his wife with Katherine Hepburn for decades while refusing to divorce her because of his Catholicism).
• Bill Donoghue Catholic League President (has fought Child Victim’s Act and taunted those supporting it).
• Joe Biden (Introduced “tough on crime” legislation in the 1980s that resulted in mass incarceration and the United States having the highest incarceration rate in the world).
• Jeanine Pirro (
• Matt Walsh (The conservative commentator)
This is a 30 second clip. An outtake of something (an answer to a question, a monologue?). There are so many things he left out here, that may have been addressed in the full conversation, but none of us will ever know just from watching this clip.
And to go from a mentioning of christianity (yes, the omitting of the capital 'c' is on purpose) to some sort of a 'Greatest Hits' of 18 as he is currently worshiped as by his cronies, I find rather worrisome.
The jews (again, on purpose) killing JC will only drum op hatred against them by those worshiping the latter. And, for a non-religious person such as myself, the opinion of people building their entire existence around some sort of "Gandalf-on-acid" of whatever denomination is to be taken with skepticism anyway.
They really shouldn’t treat the Palestinians like they do.
@@bushwhackeddos.2703 I don't have a dog in that race. I am anti-organized religion and couldn't care less if the whole middle east (Palestine and Israel) was nuked to stop the bullsh*t.
the cool thing about religion is that you can believe anything you want !! in fact people like Fry & Hitchens are merely sent along to test your faith...
Don't say fact when talking faith...they're opposites.
Thats not a cool thing about religion. Thats what makes religion so dangerous and it breeds rapists and crazy people because they think they can just pray all their bad deeds away. Religion is for the mentally ill.
I fully support a person’s right to believe whatever they wish. However, when their religion forbids another person to, say, have a same sex relationship, well that’s a problem.
Should you disagree with such a tolerant approach, please don’t harass people in free countries - Be brave enough to go to Iran, for example, and tell the leaders there, that you believe their religious teachings to be wrong.
What religion does to a mofo
Indeed and now recite with me the weekly prayer "I believe in the virgin Mary, her son who got crucified, and that my child is safe from sexual predators as an altar boy"
DONT CONFUSE CATHOLICISM WITH CHRISTIANITY
I don’t think anyone did
There is the old joke that NI was made up of 60% Protestants and 40% Catholics but no Christians.
You think evangelicals are any better? I can assure you they are not.
They worship Jesus and reference the Bible for their beliefs. That makes them Christian. The Protestant denominations exist because they broke off from the Catholics. Anything else is lies and propaganda repeated by Protestant clergy trying to pretend that they were a secret true Christian sect in the shadows the whole time.
As bad as the Catholics are, Protestants are worse with their Christian Zionist movement lobbying the US government to bring about the END OF THE WORLD, the Southern Baptist sex and abuse scandals that just came to light which rival those of the Catholics Church, the literal thousands of Christian based cults in America, the “kidnapped for Christ” scheme that is still going on, the prosperity gospel con, and more. I could go on for a LONG time about the evils Protestants do in the name of Jesus. And how conveniently you folks dishonestly sweep it all under the rug with “They don’t count as Christians because they don’t act the way I think Christian’s should act, and they don’t dance the denominational Hokey Pokey the way they’re supposed to, so they don’t count as Christian, so you’re not complaining about Christians. So there! Look at how neatly I made the problem disappear without actually having to deal with people doing evil things while proclaiming the gospel of Jesus?”
There are 45,000 Christian denominations (and one more tomorrow) and YES Catholics ARE one of them whether you want to believe it or not!
I’m willing to bet that even the people who you think “count” as Christians have done evil things, but you probably have dishonest goal post moving excuses for them too. Like, “we’re only human and imperfect.” I heard that one before. You know who’s also just human? Atheists! And they generally do better at being moral because they think about the nuts and bolts of morality rather than slaving their thinking to whatever a priest/preacher/pastor/reverend/chaplain/vicar/whatever you want to call the guy standing at the pulpit telling you what to think says!
Not impressed with the way Protestants put words in the mouths of others, telling them what they believe without even asking what they believe! It’s a damned lie that Catholics who worship Jesus and reference the Bible aren’t Christian! You’re just repeating lying propaganda without applying critical thinking to it. I bet that if you’re even aware of Orthodox Christianity that you also put words in their mouths and lie about them worshiping the paintings don’t you? Guess what? That’s also a lie Protestants tell about other denominations.
The sad Stephen Fry. Intelligence, yes .Wisdom, no. He tries to define the idea of no God by his view of right and wrong. Silly man. He might realize how small he is by trying to grasp the word eternal. No one can , nor can people comprehend God except through Gods own grace Imparted to a person.
It's honestly impressive that you managed to type out so much without actually saying anything. You haven't addressed any of his points, you haven't even made any of your own.
Ladies and gentlemen...the vapidness which is religion proven in a few sentences right here. Meaningless drivel to fool the simple mind about things they'll never know taught by people with no idea. But sure of it all. No questioning. Just blind acceptance because they were told to. Human cattle.
I don't know about you but I wouldn't want ANYTHING to do with a god who is supposedly "almighty" and yet does absolutely NOTHING while his very own representatives (or "employees") have committed - in country after country, decade after decade - millions of cases of child abuse right under his nose.
Bet he upset old Widdecome she,s Catholic!!
She started out Anglican and covered when women became ordained priests.
I just feel sorry for you. You are part of the plan and you don't notice. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
brainwashed 🤦
the plan to have people live short pointless lives in order to make ghost servants? at a 99.99% failure rate i might add.
yea great plan... really paradigm shifting lol.