How Apple Could Lose Millions of Customers Because of This UK Law
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2024
- Good LORD. The UK is about to pass a law that aims to break the laws of mathematics! Someone alert the house of Lords once Corrie is over.
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We don't need an investigatory act, we need an investigate Tories act...
Nice pun, I suppose, but this isn't a Tory thing, it's a politicians in general thing. Starmer, with his anti-free speech and expression commitments, is just as bad on civil liberties as the Conservative Party. Ditto for the SNP, 'Liberal' Democrats, Plaid Cymru and the Non-binary Palestine, sorry, 'Green' Party.
Well it is important to note that this was passed bipartisanly in the House of Lords with labour lords and Tory lords all in agreement. Libdem and Green dissenters ignored
@@evan great, so our privacy was decided by a bunch of people that were never voted for - even better 😂😭 and they tell us we live in a democracy...
@@evanNeoliberal "Labour" are basically just Tories with a slightly less terrifying face, so... unsurprising.
@@evan they're the same party with different methods of getting voters.
While the UK is no longer subject to the ECJ ruling on the legality of this law, we are still subject to the ruling of the ECHR, who have ruled on similar matters in 2021, and deemed this kind of surveillance to be illegal due to the inability to protect "against arbitrariness and the risk of abuse" and infinging on the right to privacy.
This law will definitely be challenged in the ECHR and could also could potentially be brought to the UK supreme court as going against the Data Protection Act/GDPR which would be interesting.
In short I dont think this law is going anywhere other than the Tories using it to bang their drum about "being prevented from taking action by foreign powers. Blah blah blah, wahh wahh we cant spy on our citizens :(" until they get voted out.
Completely agree. They'll claim the ECHR is putting UK citizens at risk of terrorism and put our children at risk of abuse in order to attempt to take us out of it.
Probably only because they won't have time to do that before then. The sad thing is that they absolutely do declare their intention to pull us out of all of these protective rules and bodies, and as long as they wave the idea of someone not being deported because of them, half the country will practically insist on it.
Didn’t the tories already suggest leaving the echr to commit genocide against queer people already?
It'll become yet another talking point for the ERG and the other fright-wing headbangers in the Tory government, and yet another stick to bash the ECHR with. Expect to see the GBeebies talking heads going on and on about it, if you are one of the few dozen who actually watch it.
I thought the bill is already being passed. The ECHR doesn't have the power to stop that.
14:49 “… bad guys will eventually find a way in…”
For instance, by working for the government or becoming members of the Parliament and passing laws like this one.
Lol
It's even worse. They just need a few politicians on their payroll and the government will bring in laws and regulations that benefit the bad guys directly.
Vaccine much?
Baron Lebedev springs to mind for some reason.
Kimi Badenoch admitted to illegally hacking labour websites, she should be doing community service not sitting on the benches of power. @@markevans2294
The fact the largest growth in crime on the last three years was fraud and hacking...is completely lost on the Tories.
This reminds me of the "TSA only" locks.
A TSA officer stupidly flashed a full set on tv and copies were made within an hour.
Boom all suitcases now can't be locked by law if you travel to the US
The majority of indecent images of kids are taken by teenagers sending their own images to other teens.
They were doing this on an encrypted service, but fear not, soon child abusers will be able to use legally mandated security flaws to access them too. This literally makes your child more vulnerable to abuse.
And when they get caught the teenagers are charged with distributing "child porn"... of themselves. It's an asinine system.
This. Today the power of a criminal network is as strong as the one of a national government. Basically, for any technology that a government possesses, you should assume that the criminal network also possesses it. Furthermore, the criminal network is more youthful than the old farts in the public sector.
Fortunately there has never been a case of someone in a position of power abusing it for their own sexual gratification.
Oh wait...
@@DjDolHaus86 I see so you will put teens in jail and on "sex offender" lists to protect them. Makes perfect sense!
This may have bigger ramifications. The Five Eyes countries are not prevented by US laws (apart from the US itself) in snooping on US citizens. And since they share data collected with each other, this is a back door for US monitoring its own citizens.
Hence why the U.S. government isn't balking at this one. The U.S. government has been wanting to spy on its own citizens for a really, really long time but knows it can't do it directly because it would be a blatant violation of the U.S. Constitution. But if it can be backdoored in through the UK passing a draconian law, then all is somehow well!
This is the big laugh here.... Any "member" just asks another for the data on it's own citizens. Not like it's the first time that has happened.....
You haven't heard of FATCA or the PATRIOT Act? The US tracks your library requests; any time someone typoes your name at school, at work, at the library, on a bill... that typo gets added to your list of aliases.
@@NavaSDMB the library isn't the thread you should by most worried about.
You can be absolutely certain that extremely secretive and shady agencies like the NSA don't give the slightest shit about trivial things like the "law" or "constitution".
there is nothing to stop the smarter crooks from using their own end-to-end encrypted software.
I’m sure there are already hyper secure encrypted Android apps that provide this. Nothing prevents anyone from doing this as you say.
Do you mean like those ANOM phones? Yes, they should definitely make more of them especially if they can be sold to criminals 👍
Given these are all open standards, yeah baddies can literally just roll their own messaging app if they really want to. This is the kind of law that only affects those already following the law 🙃
They actually do this regularly... and fail every time.
@@autohmae -they do? Who, examples? I’m curious!
I agree that "lifelong education " and keeping skills and knowledge updated is essential for teaachers etc and especially politicians... imagine if politicians had to take competence exams on a regular basis...certainly before every election😂
It would be good to have, like, an MOT for voting. Just every 10 years or so, we check in with you and make sure you know what the hell is going on.
@@FTZPLTCthe downside of the mps being given a questionnaire or something similar they'd want a sneak peak so they can all give the same answer as per party line
To do most job there are training courses, exams to pass and bodies that approve your competence to do the job. Where a electrician, a carpenter, a teacher or surgeon need to have certification to be an MP you only need to get more votes than the opposition. To become a peer you don't even need that much although there is a modest vetting process to make sure only the "right" people are allowed in but that is not based on any form of experience or competence.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 - There is absolutely an argument for anyone who wants to go into politics having to pass a job interview. People always kneejerk respond with "but it would be elitist gatekeeping!", but I'm literally talking about the standard of interview that would gatekeep a job at Sainsbury's.
I do think that this would weed out way more MPs than people realise because so many of them have no employment history that doesn't amount to just being handed silly little jobs for big wages by other aristocrats.
🇬🇧 🏠 of Lords be like you can 🦶 in my 🚪smash the 🪟 & take down the 🧱 so long as I can 👀 you do it clearly someone was 🥴🧠☠ when things went down.
We are NOT OK here in the UK. SEND HELP!!
FUCK! WE DIDN'T MEAN THE AMERICANS! HIDE THE BLOODY OIL!
When Malcolm Turnball suggested something similar in Australia and someone pointed out that it wasn’t compatible with the laws of mathematics his response was that the only laws that apply in Australia are the laws of Australia.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Is he related to Diane Abbott?
I swear we bounce legislation off of each other in the Commonwealth sphere, as soon as one country manages to pass awful legislation, the others try and follow suit. Lucky for us in Australia, it doesn't matter which primary party is in power, they both continually try and chip away at any semblance of privacy.
@@osier769 Kind of like Shit and Shit Lite
Should have replied that if the laws of mathematics are not a part of Australian law, why do we use it to calculate our taxes.
@@Eledore it “so the vote count that elected you was invalid “.
Thanks for the comments about Boomers. From a 70 year old Linux user and programmer. Much appreciated. 😄
77 y.o techie here. Any 80s?
@@NoiseWithRules 62. Give me enough time and I'll catch up.
i use arch btw
My dad, who would have been 92 now, taught himself how to write computer programmes etc after he retired and then taught my sons., My uncle, now 83, used to work for Ferranti. He designed the computer that controlled the QE2 as well as many other computer systems including air traffic control systems. He then went to work for Kodak where he designed the software that is used to download photos from phones and print them in every machine that does it today. He still works as a consultant for them. Thank you for shouting out for those who started us along the computer route in the first place.
4:55 - *“The U.K. government isn't worried about the danger coming knocking on their citizen's doors; No, they're like, 'I **_am_** the danger.' ”*
Or, "I am the one who knocks," if you will…
“I am the danger” had me laughing so hard. Yes that’s the government for you! 😂
Nah I'm never going to consider moving to the UK a thing.
If only they would spent the same energy vetting illegal immigrants coming from extremist islamists countries ….
But nah….it‘ll be fine
@@TheUnknownCatWarrior No idea where you live, but if you think your government is better you are wrong.
They did not think this through, the terrorists could use those back doors to see what the government was up to since all the cell phones used by the UK government would also have that security flaw.
Having (all) law enforcement (on the planet) have keys is a bit like having a copy of everyone's house keys at every police station on the planet, and also the police station holds them digitally so you don't necessarily need physical access to the police station to swipe a copy. Plus this whole "we need to spy on you" act only ends with the logical extreme of "we need you to wear this voice-recording monitoring bracelet to make sure you're not discussing terrorism", because otherwise all the surveillance in the world is defeated by two people just meeting in person.
How's your hand writing and sign language skills? The way things have been going in this country, it might be sensible to get good at both of them. We should all be good at sign language anyway, in the interest of inclusivity.
Also the amount of keys there are makes me think they could only have 1 warehouse sided server, and so
1. Itd be hard to find the right key unless they somehow arranged them in order
2. It would be easy to sneak in and very worth it
3. If they had it in multiple locations they would send them between each other, and by their competancy I reckon they wouldnt even encrypt the encryption keys
I say "lets have a cup of tea?" , you say "Good idea!". That is conspiracy. Last time I looked the max sentence for conspiracy is 30 years in prison.
You can be sure that even if only The Metropolitan Police started with copies any government intelligence agency, large company, organised crime group, etc who wanted to would be able to get hold of them within a day.
@@a_random_dude5612 Hash tables are a technique used in database management to solve problem 1
I am reminded of the MP who was asked if he even knew what email was. Of course, he said, I use it all the time, I have a secretary who does it all for me.
I think you're confusing that with what the late US senator John McCain said about using the internet when interviewed by Big Think. There's a video of it on CZcams somewhere I think.
I feel like the bill would make the child abusers in this scenario more dangerous as if they secretly spied on someones messages they could go 'oh look, a child is home alone at(adress)'
Our government couldn't find their own backdoors using a map.
Their backdoors would be impenetrable because their heads would already be up there
But then theyd say lets make an extra one directly into the public
or three words: 'stupid', 'bungling', 'clowns' (I wonder what GPS coordinate that equates to)
...and cops can't find their own asses without a warrant.
In addition to technical competency education, I think politicians also need to be held accountable beyond the ballot box.
While I agree with your 2nd point, I disagree with your first point. They do not need to be technically competent, they just need to know where their competence ends and then refer to experts.
I'm an Engineer, so have better technical knowledge than most, but I still refer to experts in specific fields when needed. Something I try to live by in my career is "ask the right questions, at the right time, to the right people". The Lords would benefit from a similar approach.
Not actually my point,@@clarkeysam, but a suggestion from the video - which would be unnecessary if such referral to experts was a little more in evidence during these debates...
I actually snorted at '800 shades of grey'. It's been fun seeing you get properly involved in UK politics, scandals etc over the last few years. I can tell you've put effort into truly understanding things.
I'm so glad to watch an american not talk about american news, instead talking about the wacky UK news.
I want him to do a UK, USA and a third country comparison on political scandals, we brits look at Italy and feel our political scandals are so bland and boring in comparison
He has British Citizenship,
@@hesky10 Indeed, we look at US political scandals --- and we hear about them a lot more seeing as American news just gets everywhere. Yes, the Tories have done some bad stuff, but the US Republicans do far worse stuff according to what gets reported.
He lives here
I like how I had zero interest in a topic and you got me interested enough in it to watch through a whole video. None of this concerns me directly (I'm Finnish), but now I know something I didn't know a little while ago. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
What the politicians should be required to do is read the Wikipedia article on the Indiana Pi Bill. You can't break the laws of mathematics.
As a British citizen 🇬🇧, I can tell you the majority of my country thinks the same as you about our "House of Lords" 😂
Not me mate. Another of those Lords are actually quite intelligent and cone from experienced backgrounds
@@jasbindersingh2441Not with computer science and they all believe theyre really smart even when theyre not, make sure confidence ≠ competence
@a_random_dude5612 baroness Claire fox. From the institute of ideas. Been on radio 4 for years promoting.....ideas.
An excellent orator and thinker. We're lucky to have people like her turn up ...albeit for a just a day or so a week . She's on youtube , watch some of her speeches in the Lords , they're well reasoned and quite contrairian...
As a baroness she doesnt have to give any shyts about being popular or being voted in , and is only there cos she was honoured for long service to broadcasting and the institute she runs.
Evan is a British citizen too!
And honestly, the HoL is probably better than any alternative the current government will come up with.
Can I say that House of Lords are a bunch of old farts?
Maybe once it's pointed out to them that their messages will be even easier to hack , because i'm sure there's already a hacker or 2 who are trying to hack MPs, that would stop that act pronto
I actually have nothing to add, you have covered the subject perfectly well
Good work Sir
Thank you!
they do realize putting that backdoor in means that their communications are also compromised if they use apple?
Well no that's obvious
The MPs probably don't know or care - they don't use computers.
That being said, these bills are being pushed by intelligence agencies. They absolutely know the risks and have decided they're less than the risk of the enemy "going dark". They also almost surely are lying to the public, if not the MPs, in order to get this bill passed. As for why they're obsessed with solving "going dark" at any cost... well, spymasters can't pull a paycheck if the enemy is impenetrable.
If they aren't lying and they absolutely do think Apple and Google can just make digital locks that magically know a court order is real or not, they need to be fired and/or sacked, depending on the country.
Theyll get someone with a brain to make an MP app for encryption because "they deserve special rights"
They have slept with too many women to think thus far.
I've sent an email and left a voicemail with my local MP (She's with Labour) about this over a week ago. They haven't got back to me at all. It seems that even Labour party MP's think people with concerns are just crazy people.
Thank you for bringing attention to this.
An update after a couple of months.
I still haven't received a reply, I'm going to make contact again tomorrow.
Great topic. I mostly agree with you, except e2e encryption is not as secure even without this law IMHO.
When you don't control the client plattform or software, e2e encryption is a myth. Apple (and Google) can send you a forced update to your app or OS anytime and send the keys "home".
So if NSA or whatever UK alternative forces Apple to get your data they can update your phone to get in. No maths involved here ;-)
While true in theory, this only applies if the keys are not changed. Most e2e platforms generate new keys regularly, often each time a new session starts. So having the keys from a previous session will not help an attacker to decrypt a later one, or historic sessions they may have intercepted and stored. As for the conversations saved on the user’s end devices, these are encrypted by the private user keys, which are protected by the OS. In theory, yes, that data could be retrieved remotely by a manufacturer or app developer using an over the air update, but that’s true of any system. As Evan pointed out, manufacturers and developers could deploy such updates anyway, but if they did, the mechanism by which they worked would be a major vulnerability that could be used by any bad actor. I’d be interested to see what exactly the UK government is requesting - do they want to be able to remotely decrypt live communications (mathematically impossible) or do they just want manufacturers and developers to provide a backdoor to the software on-device (major vulnerability) ?
Also, some parts of the security mechanisms are implemented in hardware and thus it's not really as straightforward to just 'send the keys home'
@@Sindrijo you don't even need the key, you can simply use the plain content, if you control the end user device
@@AlexanderTerczka The whole point is that a company is trying to sell you a device that let's you have that control. Since when is this a bad thing? Oh well...for authoritarian governments is a bad thing...
Yes, Lady Bennet is living in another world, the one that has a clue how all of this works. Too bad she couldn’t stand up and say so.
Basically, the flawed notion of "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear."
The response to that is, just because you have something to hide doesn't mean you have done anything wrong.
Yupp
I also watched this, Evan. Thank you for sharing this informative vlog. You’re becoming one of my favourite CZcamsrs.
As tom scott put it in his video, "You have nothing to hide, only works if the governement holds the same qualities as you. Or untill they make eating meat illegal."
My favorite response to that is why do you want a freedom of speech if you have nothing to say?
Politicians are out of touch, but the age of them is not the reason ...
Tim Cook is 63
Tim Berners-Lee is 68
Vint Cerf is 80
Bob Khan is 85
Cryptography
Whitfield Diffie is 79, Martin Hellman is 78
Clifford Cocks is 73
Phil Zimmermann is 70
The people who invented all this are mostly are still alive .... and aged ...
I'm glad you mentioned this. I get so fed up with the ageist BS that people come out with when talking about technology. Evan should know better. I agree that many people in the government don't know enough about technology, but to resort to age comments is ludicrous. People forget that the bulk of technology they use was invented by boomers or based on it. It's like suggesting that Tim-Berners Lee doesn't know how to use a web browser!
You made a logical fallacy here : appeal to special examples. The people you mentioned are genius. Age, as well as other factors, has no account on them.
@@johnsnow8591 This established the category of people who worked on technology that you use everyday, or worked on it's predecessors
These people are necessarily numerous, and worked at them more than 50, 40, or 30 years ago and so are now likely mostly retired ...
Or do you think the technology the geniuses invented sprung out of nowhere, and no vast army of engineers, and designers, and technicians were not involved as well ?
@@davidioanhedges Your so-called army is nothing else than a combination of low-level imitators and impostors. They spent their entire youth to learn a single trick, and their mentality forever stayed in that epoch.
Very good point. I'm nothing like on the same level as the names you listed, but I worked in software development for 30 years and data management for over 10 years before retiring. The idea that boomers are automatically tech illiterate is laughable.
Think of the children, because god knows politicians won’t think of us.
The law also puts kids in more risk, as most explicit images of teens are shared by themselves to other teens.
And now there's a government approved back door for nonces to just access those images aswell.
Sadly the UK parliament is fine taking away people's rights.
EU audiences might want to look up what "voluntary chat control" is, and talk to their representatives about the the EU Interior minister repeat vote on mandatory chat control in March.
There's sordid parallel history there, with the Data Retention Directive 2006/24/EC. DRD required telcos to hold details about every IP visited, email, transaction, call and SMS for 6-24 months for the entire population and tell govt agencies without warrant. ECJ theoretically invalidated it in 2014, except it was state level law by then and application continued most places with various levels of openness. With the GDPR coming up some states officially gave up, but some, most notably France, openly flout it and keep issuing "emergency" extension decrees.
And then there's states where secret services enjoy carte blanche for all practical purposes (say, Greece or Bulgaria), so DRD is the least of your worries.
Kinda wild that this came up now; I just finished a book where a big part of it is about backdoor exploits being left in software at the behest of people claiming to be from the government... but in that book, it's assumed that those people probably *weren't* the government. Turns out that was the least plausible part.
In this situation it's important to ask "The government of where, exactly?"
If the book is set in the US people might not realise that an organisation calling itself the "Federal Security Service" is based at 24 Kuznetski Most, Moscow, Russian Federation.
@@markevans2294 - Oh, no, it's set in the UK, in present day, and came out about six months ago.
(I'm not saying the title because this would be kind of a spoiler for it.)
@@markevans2294 - Oh, no, it's set in the UK, in present day, and came out about six months ago.
(I'm not saying the title because it's a mystery novel and this would be kind of a spoiler for it.)
" It wouldn't happen in America"........................... Ed Snowden enters the chat.
' I'm gonna put you in jiggle mode.' 😂😂😂
I wonder if government ministers know this law would make them particularly vulnerable.
They always make that claim and yet actual CSAs get a slap on the wrists and they never seem to do anything about the terrorists other than saying, after an attack, they they were known to authorities.
Something to be aware of, the Investigatory Powers Act was brought in in 2016 after repeated outcries about it. It was one of the reasons that Home Secretary Theresa May wanted to leave the ECHR and ECJ.
This amendment is the government slipping in some of the clauses that they had to remove to pass it back then. At the time the Tories were still the Conservative Party and so had quite a few MPs who would never countenance giving a government that much power. (They were still evil bastards each and every one, but *libertarian* evil bastards.)
Since the Brexit referendum the proto-facists have gained control of the party (it looks similar to the Republican Party in the US, but with a huge majority). So they don't have to face down the dissenters in their ranks. But there's going to be an election this year, and they are going to be beaten into opposition. Substantially. Jacob Rees-Smug's Nanny is going to be rubbing special cream into his bright red botty for weeks after the beating they get.
So they have to do something quickly if they want to get the law onto the books before they lose power. The House of Lords has been a huge barrier to the government's authoritarian legislation. But thanks to getting Johnson and Truss' resignation "honours" as well as the annual New Years honours - they've been able to push more far right dickheads in.
So they started this amendment in the Lords - where it would face it's biggest challenges - and Evan watched the debate on the final reading. During 1st Reading, 2nd reading, and Committee Stage there has been a number of excellent arguments and points raised. By the time it got to the 3rd reading it was a fait accompli so it's passed with a "we tried" shrug.
Now it's in the Commons. It's currently waiting on its second reading before it goes into committee. So it's a race against the clock. Can the government push it through committee stage quickly enough to beat the election?
It's the darkest timeline, of course they will. 🤦😳
I believe my andriod honor has started to use end to end encryption on the messages as well now,
It's so great we took back control from the EU, I wonder what the MPs did while the EU had all the control for those 40 years? Laws like this prove that they don't have a clue, it's like letting my cat have a key for the front door in case the cat flap stops working, then I wonder why and how I got robbed.
Both houses should be forced to sit each year's GCSE's on a livestream.
I'm a boomer (1955). Boomers cover a large number of years (1946-1964). 25 years is quite a spread. Especially that era when lots of electronic technology came out during that time. My part of boomers started using computers and technology as part of our lives. So, the younger boomers are very comfortable with computers. In fact we have a foot in both the analog world and the digital world. So, please keep in mind that the younger boomers are Ludites.
the apple ipad advert where a girl is using an ipad and her parents ask her what she is looking at on her computer - 'Whats' a computer?'
Surely you meant to say “younger boomers are not Luddites” ?
Well, I'm an older boomer who spent his whole career in electronics and computing - there just aren't as many of us. You will find Bruce Schneier on my (physical) bookshelf.
Then tell me the difference between WEP and WAP. Yes, it’s an IT support interview question.
Hi Evan, Computer Scientist here.
Just FYI, although it would be exceedingly difficult to implement, and has equally detrimental implications for user privacy, backdooring end-to-end encryption is not mathematically impossible.
This is especially true with Elliptic Curve Cryptography. There’s some reason to believe (albeit no concrete proof) that the NSA may have attempted to backdoor a specific NIST curve used for this in the past.
Without being too technical, a government could say to Apple “hey, please use these input values and don’t ask any questions about it”. It would be very difficult - bordering on impossible - to establish whether they’d been backdoored, but it would allow the aforementioned government to very easily decrypt intercepted messages.
Hope this helps!
Also, for anyone interested, Apple offer two features which can help to mitigate some of the concerns Evan raised.
The first is Advanced Data Protection, which removes your private keys from Apple’s servers and makes you the soul custodian of your keys and backup data.
The second is Contact Key Verification, which effectively monitors the integrity of end-to-end encrypted communication channels and lets you know if they could have been compromised.
@@gwo0d Your contact may not use advanced data protection, as mentioned by this CZcamsr
Imagine your front door lock broke and you couldn't fix it, because the neighbour decided he needs that flaw to make sure you stay safe.
That's essentially what's happening here.
I would combust with anger
Almost, only its that the police/government want to make sure you are safe.
And they already know how to check the door you had, sorry have.
The difference is the security services already know how to get into my home covertly, and yours too. They could pick the locks, or they could probably pose as tradespeople or something and get in that way. But that's expensive, so they can't do it to everyone at once, they can only do it to the people who's secrets they are most interested in. They can also just use force to break the door down.
@@barneylaurance1865 It's not about security services being able to get into my home. It's about the fact that a security flaw such as a broken lock lets *everyone* get in without much trouble.
And yet if you suggest protecting the children sleeping on an air mattress on an empty stomach in a cold house in the UK, or the children being bombed in Gaza, it turns out that the tories don’t give a shit about protecting kids.
Australia attempted a similar thing. Enforce an ability to backdoor a device to allow police to access. But of course this immediately allow access to bad actors. It would be the same as ensuring you cannot lock the door of your house and putting all of your life savings under a mattress allowing anyone in to simply go through your personal items and take money on their way out.
That backdoor freaks me out! Cyber criminals could easily use it to get into your phone
The ubiquitous slippery slope! 🙁🇬🇧
This is not a slippery slope fallacy. The downstream criminal chain is already very mature and has operated for years. They are waiting for this floodgate to empower them more. To be honest, I suspect that criminals are the main driving force behind this bill or act.
UK Parliament has a cheek to be talking about child exploitation.
These "Lords" probably think that this "Backdoor" is the same as on that 1970s detective show of wiretapping the landline with that big reel-to-reel tape recorder & the guys in the van. If you create a window into the security, it's not only your friendly neighbourhood policeman that can look inside, but also criminals.
Even half a century ago the GPO (and GCHQ) had easier ways to go about this.
9:55 Concerning gun laws, does America have a Bullet Bill? Or is that copyrighted by Nintendo?
Class
This made me genuinely burst out with one huge "HA!" that made my partner think I'd hurt myself or something and check on me
@@Bill32H-it3sv It was a pun. Bullet Bill is an enemy in Mario games. It's like a giant missile wih arms, fists, and an angry face coming for Mario.
Bill is also the name for a law proposal in the US, but you already knew that. From there, I made the pun.
It is somewhat harrowing to realise that I, in my low-paid, community-facing service job, am required to engage in more professional education per year than politicians are required to *ever*.
Sounds like they learned nothing from the debacle with Wanna Cry & the British Healthcare System. It was really expensive the last time they refused to update systems.
the problem with collecting data like this: a) people with legitimate access to the data who decide to use their access to use the data illegally b) flat out incompetence (microsoft leaving an admin level test account running on live outlook email servers), a realistic proposition given government IT projects: the NHS data system, the Post Office Horizons disaster
The other issue with a backdoor is that the UK is not the only country on Earth (shocking).
Allowing the UK backdoor means allowing the French one, the Chinese one, or even the Afghan Taliban one on phones sold in the UK.
And since government officials never forget sensitive information on a public train, there is no risk that such a backdoor will ever leak
If only this was already law, we'd have Boris and Rishis missing text messages ....
This is also happening in the US. One of which was the EARN IT bill that claimed to "protect the children". It will keep coming back. There are many people in government in both parties that REALLY do not want people using encrypted communications.
The joke about having to open your iPhone to do anything with Siri reminded me of when I was cycling home from work. I asked via my ear piece what time it was and it goes “to perform this action you must unlock your device” I’m cycling ugh! All I’m asking is the time, not my personal details or bank information lol
Yup! Siri is very much useless for most things
Really loving your recent move towards news/political takes.
I'm not convinced that the HoL is there to provide specialist skills or knowledge, surely that's why advisors are hired in. The HoL is supposed to be knowledgeable about the UK law and provide oversight and common sense to government stupidity. They've not been doing a bad job on that of late. Admittedly, they need help with modern technology issues and the current government is trying to cram the Lords with minions, rather than people with competence, but I generally feel that they do a better job than he Commons do (yes, damning with faint praise intended).
So depressing to watch this country sliding back into the primordial sludge. But thanks for so eloquently portraying the decline of our mighty system.
Providing a back door into end to end encryption does not break the laws of mathematics. It just breaks the encryption.
Everyone in the UK hear me:
I have now left the uk and you should too. If you stay you WILL have your freedoms removed
There hasn’t really been many if any freedoms in the UK since day 1. To think there is is part of the problem
I seem to rememberthe USB C law runs out after like a very short time... like 5 years or so, and then the USB board (of which apple is a part of) are supposed to agree on a new standard. If they come up with a new standard and Apple again tries to do their own thing i guess it'll have to become another law
Apple only did their own thing because USB-C was taking so long to come out and they wanted an update to 30-pin adapter - then realised they could licence the lightning connector and make bank from the cable manufacturers as well.
They invested a lot of engineering power and money into USB-C. They would've switched eventually (and were already doing that across their products, with just iPhone and peripherals left) they just wanted to milk it a bit longer.
@@SamPhoenix_ i see
Probably sheer coincidence then, that Apple made a load more money selling their own proprietary stuff again. I guess Apple sales and marketing did not see that one coming, probably only a small team 🤣🤣🤣
17:25 The EU also put a review process in place where they will review new tech when needed, and they might work out a transition to a superior connector at some point. That being said, it may be possible to amend the USB-C connector for higher bandwidth (as it happened several times for the USB-A connector), as long as the universal charging functionality is still supported.
All polititions should be required to allow anyone access to their property at any time to ensure that there is no child exploitation happening there....
"Would never make it through congress".
Except when it did in the form of the PATRIOT act. UK did the same thing around the time with the Counterterrorism Act (section 44 of which allowed police carte blanche to search anyone within designated areas), but please don't pretend "this could never happen in the US". If being suspected of terrorism is enough reason (it's not), CP definitely is too.
Calling it CP or anything other than child exploitation or abuse images in some way legitimises its existence, which is, of course, not acceptable. Not a criticism, just trying to raise awareness and change the narrative, so to speak.
That was my point. Evan appears to be unaware of the provisions of the Patriot Act or Cloud Act or failed to learn anything from Snowden. And I work for a tech company. You are not informed if any US government agency accesses your email or social media. You have no right to be informed.
@@captainnutnut6077 " in some way legitimises its existence"
it really doesn't. Nothing legitimises that.
@chrisdavidson911 that's what I'm saying. The point is that even MSM calls it that in articles and so forth, when they absolutely should not. Ever. It needs to stop, and perhaps my wording wasn't clear in this case.
@@captainnutnut6077 You're talking like CP is some kind of euphemism. It's not. CP just means child porn, which is a kind of child exploitation. Hell, calling it "abusive images of children" would probably be more like what you're saying CP is, since calling it child porn makes it _very_ obvious what we're talking about and would make anyone that isn't a pedophile very uncomfortable with the very concept.
Since when have the house of lords been specialists lol they're just rich people with land
Not anymore. The majority of them are now appointed for anything from being Charlotte Owen to shoving money at the Tory party to being an expert in a particular field.
Thank you for making these videos! As a Brit who also gets very irritated at my reading level these vids help keep my “in the loop” and knowledgeable about UK politics
Thank you very much for this highlighting and skimming into something I've clearly slept on .... ekk!
These generational labels the US likes to apply to people really don't make sense in the rest of the world.. Although there was an increase in birthrates after WWII in the UK and Europe too, if not an actual boom, only Germany had an additional economic boom comparable to the US. Rather than booming in the late 40s and early 50s, in whichever sense you think the term implies, the UK still had rationing for many years and it took until the 60s for all the bomb sites to be cleared and for people to move out of the "temporary" housing they had to live in after significant areas of major cities were flattened by bombing. I know you're just joking, but people actually seem to believe there are such things as boomers, gen x, millennials, gen z and so forth. The time periods these categories supposedly cover are so fuzzy as to be meaningless. I have very little in common with people on the other side of the globe who happen to have been born around the same time, even if you only count the English-speaking world.
Thank you! This.
And USA screwed every last penny out of us that they helped us with in war time. We only finished paying it back in recent years. Like a college kid who faces jail if he can't land that lucrative job straight after graduating in USA,we had to pay back every last cent and dime. Thanks for the gift and the Special Relationship Uncle Sam.
While I live in America I appreciate that you talk about the country you are now a member of. This is very interesting to me from an American perspective.
I appreciate you taking time to see what it's really like here, instead of just relying on the tired stereotypes. That's a rare American indeed ☺
It warms my British heart to hear Evan using words like "Tyrannical and draconian" about our government.
They've been eroding our rights since the 1980s, the EU just slowed the pace. Blair managed to accelerate the erosion after 2001.
@@Rachel_M_ it's nice to know the American government isn't the only trash government in the world
This also affects you as an American, as any information gathered about you (or one of your fellow countrymen) by a UK intelligence agency using these powers can be fed back to your government under the Five Eyes partnership.
@@Rachel_M_. That’s Crap about Blair.
@@phoenix-xu9xj IPP Scandal introduced by Blunkett. The often abused anti Terror legislation. The Criminal Justice Act 2003...
Thankfully Blunkett's Biometric National ID Bill 2004 failed....
Want me to start on thatcher and Major next?
congratz Evan your one of the few Americans that have good knowledge about an European country ! As a belgium citizen that has a Belgium wife with a company in the UK ( before Brexit) I totaly agree with you.
Love your video's !
And about the EU , yes def when it started it was all about protecting the consumer but in my 45 years here i have noticed a couple of things and 1 is let's use the party "green " as example, it started out as a group of people protecting our nature, than over the years some hunters thought how more nature how more we can shoot so they joined , after some years you get 12 of those in a group of 20 that just push the narrative to the public to be able to shoot as much as they can. At that point are they still natures champion as they once where?
The same about the EU as they grow in power ppl with other intentions join and lately we also notice them pushing legislation in favor of companies , like the green deal ( all electric will not give consumers the best deal , since prices depends offer vs demand and all ppl that use kerosine or gas will lose that option , halving the offer doubling the demand while ignoring all the problems it may cause.
like during winter (october - march ) my solar panels give me 0 and that is exactly when i prefere to heat my house while during summer i produce 2* the amount i need and the companie just say thank you for your free electicity.
And that also what framers of the constitution ment we can give you a republic but to keep it will be the challenge (take maga is example).
Have a nice day Evan
was anyone else expecting a "brilliant" ad at the end when he was talking about live long learning, or was it just me lol
Difference between a (parliamentary) bill and an act (of parliament) in the UK. It's a bill until it becomes law; then it's an act. Great video. Keep it up.
What would be your suggestion then to the issue at hand?
How can we keep the privacy for general citizens but still allow law enforcement and counter terrorism to intercept live messages from criminals?
You don't. You can only have one or the other.
@@leblueawoo well, then I prefer given up a little bit of my privacy if that helps make the world better for everyone. to be honest i'm not trying to hide anything, only criminals need to hide behind anonymity
@@hesfialtes And how do you know it will, in fact make the world better for everyone?
@@hesfialtes Criminals and terrorists aren't found like that.
@@hesfialtesLet's see your browser history then if only criminals need anonymity. Messages too.
“Whiny American Man complains about British politics” 😂
Evan I live in the U.K. (Northern Ireland) and learned more from your videos than my own news outlets.
While we're on the subject of updating politicians' edumication, hows about requiring cabinet ministers to have some extra education or even-shock! horror!-actual expertise in the field of the department they're responsible for. Not only would it make them more likely to understand the real effects of their decisions, but it would make PR-based cabinet reshuffles much harder.
I think the House of Lords (and of Commons come to that) imagined that Apple could just hand over one of the Enigma machines that does the encryption...
Apple is NOT refusing to comply. Nor are other tech companies. Anyone watching US Congressional hearings will know that. Back Door keys are coming.
If you think that bad they are also checking on anybody who's is on benefits bank accounts plus the account of their families and relation even those who are not on benefits.
If you want the benefits be prepared to be open about savings and sources of income.
1:37 That's quite a debatable question whether the US Congress would pass similar laws or not.
Think of the "US Patriot Act" of 2001 and its successor, the "US Freedom Act" of 2015. Several people argue that these laws (and similar current US laws) actually do break the Fourth Amendment.
I think it is important that law enforcement can see messages when they could reasonably provide information about a crime that is being investigated.
I imagine this wont apply to messages sent by members of government or anyone communicating about government business/policy which might, oh, I don't know, incriminate said people in massive scandals and illegal activity...
I recently left the U.S. to live in England and I find the more-or-less wholesale and almost casual abandonment of individual rights here very discouraging, as if voters have no appreciation for the underpinnings of their democracy. The British used to pride themselves on being cool and calm under pressure; now they're panicked by the simple repetition of words like "terrorist," "immigrant," and "pedophile," and use them as an excuse to relinquish their responsibility as citizens to think for themselves.
Not sure what people you are associating with.
Don’t know who you’re talking to either, no one I know agrees with any of this.
On a historical note, the inhabitants of the UK were always called" Subjects", and were never called "Citizens". Then we were European Citizens, with rights as citizens, defended by the EU. Now the UK has left the EU, the term Citizen has remained, but we have reverted to the legal status of Subjects. The difference is that subjects have no "rights" which are not at the whim of the the government. There is a "Bill of Rights" 1689, but it defines who has power, the King, or Parliament. The subjects don't get a mention except the right of Protestants to bear arms. And was never passed through Parliament to spare the King the embarrassment of signing it. "Parliament is Sovereign". Not the people. Americans had a problem with that.
Sorry, post makes no sense. US law is far more severe and the penalties far, far more severe. Read the Patriot Act and US terrorism legislation. As for freedom, the U.K. doesn’t lock people up for decades without charge, doesn’t have thousands in solitary confinement, doesn’t have Three Strikes legislation with mandatory life sentences, and bans most plea bargains. And don’t make me laugh when you mention immigrants. Remember DACA? All the children separated from their parents? As a fellow American in Britain, I’d recommend you keep mum about “freedom”.
We actually aren't being given a choice here. The government don't send out petitions to citizens when they want to pass a law. They discuss it between themselves and their rich cronies and do whatever the hell they please. Half the time they bury the story and make it incredibly hard for the general public to be aware of or understand what they are doing
Super interesting - thanks for sharing! I want to mention lobbying here as you’re talking about politics, as if I remember you’ve previously given quite a negative vision of it - I think this might help you understand its role in a balanced policy making system. When you say here that the people making the laws don’t understand tech (so are making bad laws), this is exactly where they need to talk to apple. To understand what’s possible and how everything works. Yes apple will want to make the law more apple-friendly, but it’s essential that they talk to these companies to make good laws that work. Lobbying is a give and take, but we can’t make laws in a vacuum. Policymakers have a duty to meet with groups that might be affected and have expertise (industries, people, NGOs), and lobbying basically says ‘I’m one of those people’. Also policymakers are not completely stupid - they know if they’re meeting with someone from apple that they will be pro-apple but it is still an essential conversation to have. Would love to hear your thoughts beyond the ‘lobbying is bad’ narrative, as it’s an interesting topic that is worth scraping the surface of!
Lobbying is bad when it's accompanied by a donation to the Tory Party.
The UK gov, in my eyes are following the same logic that the Australian PM does where he stated that: “the laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia” 🤦♂️
"the math ... sorry maths" LOL 😂
Based Duolingo man explains why the UK government trying to ban an arcane branch of mathematics is a bad idea
Now this is the kind of content I can get behind
Thank you for doing this great video.
Also in the EU there are law propositions about backdooring everything for "child safety" purposes.
It’s no accident that 1984 was written in the UK.
by the way, about the USB-c law, if I remember correctly the law does allow for new standards to be developped and moved to as long as they are done collaboratively across the industry.
This, the "USB-c" law that people like to call it, is nothing about USB-C at all, its actually about non-propritary connectors and interconnectivity. It got dubbed the "USB-C" law because it forced apple to to pick a universal standard cable, and USB-C was the obvious choice.
Since you mentioned the EU law about chargers: The law does not actually lock us into USB Type C. The actual type of charging port is separate from the law - the law just says that there must be a common charge port.
USB Type C was selected as the common port, but it could absolutely be changed in the future, without needing to change the law.
‘The other place’ just refers to whichever house did not come up with the Bill. E.g if the Bill comes from the House of Commons the ‘other place’ would be the House of Lords (which is the typical way it goes) but if the House of Lords suggests it, then the ‘other place’ is the House of Commons :)
(I’m studying Criminology at the moment so know a lot of random pieces of info)
Dear AIVD, BND, CIA, MI5 & MI6 - please update your data bank and note that I follow Evan Edinger and like his videos as well.
0:47 It has nothing to do with age or understanding it all down to this government going more and more right-wing and thus authoritarianism helped by groups from 55 Tufnell Street backed by grey and black money
Going left i think
@@georgeharrison2795there are authoritarians across the right and left, and it appears that they are the majority of the population - I’d wager that if it weren’t the case, bills like this wouldn’t have stood a chance of getting through. While they aren’t vocal about it, I’d suspect the majority of citizens in this country probably actually do support the bill.
Good example of backdoors being accessible to bad guys are TSA locks. Those locks have backdoors in the form of master key that ‘only’ TSA agents have access to. Except, you can buy those keys online and open any TSA approved lock.
The US piggybacks off the UK so doesn't need to worry about US legality. I think it was Edward Snowden that brought this to light.
If I could entirely reboot the House of Commons and House of Lords by repopulating them with entirely random people, I absolutely would. There's no reason to trust anyone in either of them at the moment, and a randomly generated sample of Brits - while certainly still flawed - would at least have plenty of MPs who actually care a bit about others and have experienced lives without copious wealth.
Now I think about it, I can't have much faith in democracy if I expect random people to be more suitable than the ones who put themselves up for election!
Sortition is the drum I've been banging for the longest time. It truly is the only sensible answer to the current issues
LOVING the Sunday politics with Evan segment. I work pizza delivery and usually Sundays are the slowest day I work so having something I can put on and completely focus on like this is amazing
Aww thanks
Liked how you use the word theater like Bruce Schneier.
to the last point of "continual competence" it could be a nice filter as opposed to hard term limits.
if you sit for more than say 8/12 years, you have to do a test to show presence and understanding of the current situation. If you refuse the test or fail it, you aren't allowed to stay a politician. I am sure they can find some lobby group or think tank that wants them