Pacing - How Games Keep Things Exciting - Extra Credits
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2012
- Learn how to apply a common storytelling technique to make your gameplay more engaging and delightful for the entire experience: build dynamic, deliberate points of intensity and rest.
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(Original air date: September 7, 2011)
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♪ Intro Music: "Penguin Cap" by CarboHydroM
bit.ly/1eIHTDS
♪ Outro Music: "Shell Rider" by CarboHydroM
www.carbohydrom.net/music.html - Hry
The graph said "Luke's parents killed" if that were so then the story of Star Wars would be dramatically different.
Jonathan Pierzchala
"Luke, I am your--"
"My what?"
Though I think it may have been a typo nonetheless, parents are who raises you, not who donates your genetic material. Luke's aunt and uncle WERE his parents in that they raised him; even if they didn't make him physically, they made who Luke was and who we could become.
+Tema Koinu Nope. Your parents are who you consider your parents- they may have been parent _figures_, but they weren't is parents. I agree that it isn't just who donates your genetics- adoption is A Real Thing™- but they- apparently- aren't considered parents.
Jonathan Pierzchala actually technically they are luke grandparents?
Wasn't that what Obi Wan told Luke?
Dan sounds like he's hammered if you play it at .5 speed.
Man am I easily amused.
+Zachary Zinn I don't blame you.
+Zachary Zinn A very new experience thank you i love it
+Zachary Zinn xD sounds like he need some rest to make the video again
+Zachary Zinn it's actually hillarious
+Zachary Zinn 4:53
I tend to find most of your information on games holds lessons applicable to all forms of media, from writing to filmmaking. Just watching these videos invigorates me, educates me, makes me feel challenged and worthy.
It's like these videos are games in of themselves.
Good on you, Extra Credits crew.
I second that. I'm using it to learn to write for filmmaking. And almost every video is still relavent to my project.
I love your videos, and I hate to nitpick but... you meant fractal when you said tessellation. A tessellation (as shown by the art) is a shape or shapes that fit together in a pattern with no wasted area. A fractal is a shape that repeats itself at every level of scale (more or less).
I read an article about jazz improvisation once and it said the exact same thing about the excitement and pacing as u guys pointed out in this video, this is really an universal point to every form of art. I'am not a designer but I love games, and every time that I see a video from extra credits I feel that I learned something that I could use one way or another in my life, or a new way to look at the games I've played that it wouldn't have thought if it wasn't from this channel, that's why u guys are so awesome.
A fun survival horror game I would like is one where you get a gun, heck lot just a sidearm, an M4 or M16. It does damage, but not enough. And you slowly realize that the gun is useless, and your helpless.
+Ryan Walker that is genius! you should be a game designer!
+Ryan Walker that is genius! you should be a game designer!
+Ryan Walker Would be pretty cool but there should be more ideas behind the game because this awsome idea is not enough :D
+Ryan Walker Try 'The Brookhaven Experiment'
Ryan Walker RE4 hardcore edition ? 😆
This was super useful for the games I GM.
I agree. I also found it useful for that and am gonna try it next time
I would like to point out that I realized while watching that an enjoyable Dota 2 match follows this curve. I'll explain the Dota 2 aspect in detail, but this probably applies to most similar games.
First thing, decisions are important in the early game. When you first start, you're engaged by deciding things like what lane setup your team will use, what items to buy, etc., and this is exactly the main engagement of Dota: decision-making and strategy. Sometimes a major event will happen right off the bat, such as an early Roshan or an engagement in the jungle. Once this happens (or doesn't happen,) everyone just goes to lane for a bit. Throughout the game, the flow of gameplay will oscillate: in the early game, ganks and small pushes will happen, and in between people will go back to farming, then in the mid game larger fights and pushes will happen, and in between are the same lulls in which people farm, and then in the late game huge, game-changing teamfights lead up to the final push which ends the game. Of course, a game ended in the early- or mid-game just has its climax a bit earlier.
I agree
If your game doesn't go into ultra late game (like 70+ minutes) you are right, but if your game takes longer, it usually just becomes too intense/frustrating/boring/however you feel ultra late (i personally love it, but know much of the people i play with just can't take it) until the point where you just give up (or the enemy does). Especially with the current metagame, I've had a great lot more games dragged into ultra late than before, and it just becomes something entirely different than the game before.
ThePolaris I saw a replay lasting 3:33:xx. Three and a half hours....... Couriers running around the ancient, everyone has divines and BoTs, It's insane
It's incredible how Life's Strange Intro cover's all "Tension, Curiosity, Satisfaction, Sorrow" engagements. It felt extremely productive to think about this.
SPOILER ALERT
The player begins in the tornado scene and it's all so confusing, full of tension and maybe curiosity, then he follows in the classroom scene, where he is stimulated to play around with objects, controls and the world itself (curiosity). Once the player leaves the classroom, he reaches the corridor scene, filled with satisfaction (mostly because of the music, I guess. Then, in the bathroom, the game quickly develops strong satisfaction (butterfly), tension and a feel of sorrow for what happens. And then, back in the classroom, engagement goes back to curiosity.
I'd certainly admire an episode on this game, I believe there's much to talk about.
at around 2:15 the description could just as easily be aplied to other examples like different type addiction and how overuse can be lead to a downward spiral... i like that their example was candy.
Jesse Schell, in his "Art of Game Design" book calls this the "interest curve". He explains it very similarly to how you did, but gave his life as a juggler as an example.
You found a chart and just stashed it away for years?
tetsiga45XxX Thought the exact same thing
Sometimes I do that...
tetsiga45XxX
I think I know that chart. o_o
I think I have that to on one of my many external hard drives...
^^;
tetsiga45XxX Some people, myself included, are acutely aware that nothing on the internet is permanent. If they find something they like, or think they'll want to reference it later, they save it, because there's no guarantee it'll still be there when they want/need it.
WhalesInTheClouds its a great habit to have :D
Wow. I just realized how much writing and game design lessons I've been learning from you guys. Also, I'm using the uploads here to kind of re-watch all the episodes again, and they are no less awesome.
Saving this as a writer for my first book.
Then open the Fail Faster Video. A true lesson there.
Also Learn to Hate/Love your work.
Rock on my friend! Never Give up!
I'd be interested to see you take a specific game and go through and plot the pacing like this. Especially a well-received game like Witcher 3 or Mass Effect 2 where the story is a big part of what makes it good.
Seconded.
Bryan Davis thirded!
Fourthed?
The Outro music is fun to listen to. =D
I like how you take a hyperbolic tessellation to describe how this engagement graph works, when you really mean a fractal which the hyperbolic tessellation seems to be, because you essentially but infinity (the border of the circle) to a finite point, distorting the grid so that you see smaller and smaller copies of the same thing.
Really nice episode. I love where you can randomly stumble over fractals. They are literally everywhere!
Thanks for the links through the Patreon about page. I love how you are able to explain why you're able to engage an audience so well. Great work!
4 years later and I'm still watching these episodes. Quality work.
Having read a lot of "how to write a script"-books for the last two years this graph is true for all types of story telling. It is, in essence, a hero's journey. Great video guys.
A big action-packed opening is not always necessary. Take the horror or mystery genres, for example. They tend to start out quite slow, before bit by bit revealing things and reaching their climax.
(Also, on the ending closure thing: see Homestuck, do not do as Homestuck did.)
"A big action-packed opening is not always necessary."
True, but I'm sure the player of an action game would find it quite disappointing if that it was absent from the game.
I'm pretty sure Extra Credits was referring to a hook.
so sad I had a german teacher (I'm from germany btw) that didn't understand and even refused to accept this episode as right. Especially the last part where the curve goes down to give the story a proper happy/bad/whatever ending was what he refused to be true, even for the star wars example (I know he's kind of a nerd and knows Star Wars, while I don't, so I couldn't really continue the argument there :/).
Yet another example of learning through games being better than school...guess where I learned english...started with Pokemon...now I'm here.
From my experience a lot of lit teachers learn the famous story things(hero quest, archetypes, etc) then forget a lot of other stuff.
i'm planning on going into design and coding soon, and these help me learn a lot. thanks, guys!
what i love is how nuclear throne does this.
Nuclear throne is nonstop guns blazing.
How do the remedy this?
They make it so that one run is short, like just 10 minutes or so short, if you are good at the game.
They also slowly switch off from action to tension, switching over from enemies that you could definitely kill to enemies that could probably do a lot of damage if they catch you off guard. The bandits of the drylands are enemies you can absentmindedly kill. The snowbots and robot wolves of the frozen city are another story.
mebezaccraft I agree. Nuclear Throne is really good like this.
When you have almost 9,000 views, over 200 likes, and not a single dislike, you know you're doing something right. You rock extracreditz!
3:07
HALO 2.
I'm looking at you. -_-
Something interesting to note: in Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, there is an A.I director built specifically for this. The moment players leave the safe room, it starts up. It'll control what items spawn(though they'll always be in the same spot, and always same type, with healthpack and defib analogous to shot and pills), and everything about the zombie's spawns. If the group sits around too much, it'll prevent them from getting comfortable or bored by throwing a horde of zombies at them, or some special infected. If they move into a new area, it'll spawn the enemies that just wander around the area before they are in view, with more or less depending on: how much fighting they did recently(measured using an intensity scale. Raises by one for each alert enemy they kill, sniping distant unaware ones don't count) and overall condition. Healthier survivors who haven't fought recently will have more enemies to deal with. People who just barely scraped by a huge horde and are nearly dead will be given a break, maybe some more useful items, like a bigger gun, if a health kit instead of some pills. Let's say the survivors are blazing through the map, and taking little damage, it'll respond by hurling more and bigger hordes of enemies, more specials at once, maybe even a witch or tank in extreme cases, in order to make it more tense, or harder for them. Also, they'll be given weaker guns. If they are crawling through the map, and scraping buy every battle, more healing fatter guns, smaller hordes and separated specials, so that the survivors can relax and recover before the next set of zombies. As a result, every run of a map is different, and you also just learned why speed runners run into a tank at every corner mean while you only see the scripted ones.
"If you get them hugely involved and then cut to credits, it will just leave them frustrated." THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE sums up Half-Life 2: Episode 2. What has it been now? 8 years and no sequel? You can't just end on a GIANT cliffhanger and not follow it up. Granted, Half-Life's "good" ending was a cliffhanger, but the story at least had closure.
I honestly couldn't care less about the Half-life story. Tho I played HL1, 2 and Ep.2 I am not frustrated that on the lack of information regarding HL3. The Half-life continuity is nothing amazing, there are no characters I care about and the setting just makes me sad with all the potential it lost.
Thanks for this. I'm keeping this in mind as I set the pacing for my game. Interestingly enough, aspects of the pattern were already emerging...
Dat outro track is brilliant, lovin' it :P
This love is so helpful!!
I discovered this graph pattern applies in my tabletop game session:
Every scene starts with a setting, slowly increases tension when the conflict arrives and the peak is where I need ir to be: When the player rolls the dice and is forced to use the randomness of a dice to define what happens next.
In fact each scene gets more and more tenseful since the stakes are higher. Beginning with preparing a proper tea, performing well in a chess game, and ending with a political discussion at court and a real life fight!
3:05 - 3:11
And this is why everyone wants Half Life 3.
Curiously, Touhou Project games follow this curve exactly, at the whole game level, in single boss's fight and in a single shot of their bullets.
The initial point here is supposed to apply to more than just tension: it relies on context.
It's like starting off a movie like 'My Sister's Keeper' with an action scene.
It starts with a spike of raw sadness, and oscillates up and down yet increasing on a grand scale until you reach the grand finale and then you're gently lowered down (mainly by the dampening of your fall the pool of tears would cause) to the exit.
I love your name because it goes so well with your picture.
Small addendum:
The ending example you brought up, "Tessellation".
You're thinking of a fractal. A tessellation is like a checkerboard - all squares are the same, with an obvious repeating pattern. A fractal (generally) is more like a triforce, if you kept putting smaller reverse triangles in the middle of every triangle. For examples, google image search the Koch Snowflake.
Ok I had/ have a basic idea for a game (just a name really and a basic thought of the concepts) but thanks to these videos I've built the game much better.
Now I just need to specify it all down for myself. Thanks guys!
RE5 isn't a survival horror game, it's an action game.
Within the curve of the arc is the scene: an individual level or dungeon that must follow a similar engagement curve.
Within the curve of the scene is the action: a single event that brings our engagement up then back down in a few seconds or less.
Within every action is the tap of a button: for a fraction of a second your engagement rises as you place your finger on the button or joystick, and it goes back down as you remove the finger and experience the action.
Within every button press there are the nerves rushing electric signs to the finger to put it down and your finger starts to rest again as the action is carried out.
Within that is probably something to do with electrons and atoms, but at least I was able to provide an example of an engagement arc with this comment.
Love the mario guitar rif at the end
"see you next week"
*CUE EXTREMELY LOUD MUSIC*
i have to say the drawings are awesome and funny :D
As a novel writer I found this video to be one of the most informative things I've ever watched.
Also, this goes for Jack London's most famous works Call of the Wild and White Fang. White Fang in particular felt that it was a story within a story, each wave leading upto the next.
I find it fascinating how almost that exact way of creating a satisfying plot seems to cover pretty much every kind of narrative media
2:40 - what a perfect way to describe Outlast
5:25 in case anyone is wondering, the proper word for a picture that repeats itself when magnified is a "(Recursive) Fractal"
That graph exactly would make a sick roller coaster.
Personally, I find the level aspect most fascinating, and love trying to find examples within games that fit this. Two of the most prominent I could think of off the top of my head are City Escape from Sonic Adventure 2 and Welcome to Rapture from Bioshock, but I know there are loads others.
I thought it was really cool that you used two pics from the dark crystal. Such an underrated movie. Everyone go watch it! It's awesome.
Am I the only one that enjoyed the part where *BIOSHOCK 1 SPOILERS* you become a Big Daddy? I actually found it quite engaging how the world of Rapture does that...
while i personally dont need them,
kudos for the french subtitles to whomever took time to make them
Fatal Frame 3 did this very well, the main character enters the 'Manor of Sleep' in her dreams every day, but at some point she wakes up, and you get to play her day life as well, investigating the real life events that occurred in the manor, since she is a journalist and it was her story, it lowers down the pace like the video says and the game is about killing ghosts by photographing them so it delivers on the action part too, more 'intense' photographs do more damage to the ghost, etc
The "Action" piece might as well have been called the "Emotion" piece. Because it's all about what the gamer feels whether that is shooting a gun, solving a puzzle, or what have you. It's the emotional engagement (investment + payout) that keeps gamers interested and playing further.
Anyway, another great explanation. Keep it up!
good ending theme for this video. perfect fit. 10/10
Wild super Mario at the end hehe
Though the industry sounds interesting to me I am not in the field of game design but still enjoy listening to you.
5:09 every good sniper shot. that feeling
One of the points I touched on in my recent blog is the idea of a "multi curve" or "multi arc" perspective. Instead of plotting all engagement on a single line, consider looking at them as separate things - when narrative starts to dip, ramp up the action. When the action dips, ramp up exploration/wonder.
This is what RTSes do and part of what makes them so fun (imo). If you mix emotions correctly you circumvent burnout entirely and can maintain a higher level of engagement overall. Perhaps not the best approach for all genres, but something to think about.
See my article here: gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenCooney/20141013/227562/Dawn_of_War_II_Reborn__Artillerys_quotAtlasquot.php (skip to "Story Arcs" if you just want to hear about this concept).
I think dmc3 had good pacing
the game would get so hard after a bit that you would wanna quit
so whenever you fight vergil or do an insanely long level, it will give you a level that is extremely short and quick or a level that has no boss
I liked that about the game, it would be insanely difficult anf then give you a breather for a short level
That explains hunting Riverwood deer in Skyrim at early levels where super-sneaking isn't possible. There's a whole lot of tension in the original chase, or in the suspense of getting close enough to land an unassisted, no Eagle Eye perk, shot with one of your only 20 iron arrows. Then there's the low of trying to line that right up. Then there's the shot, fired right into the unassuming elk--and finally the reward of finally doing enough hunting to craft a full set of leather armour. At this point Bleak Falls Barrow ups the tension a little bit. Then the journey to Whiterun and a battle with a dragon :)
damn... this was informative o.O
1:08
OOOOH EC SWORE
I'm not even interested in designing video games, but I still enjoy these videos.
THE OUTRO!!
They said that suddenly cutting it at the end ruins the pacing and the excitement..
SO WHY DID YOU CUT THE MARIO THEME!?
dammit i feel bad now...
the mario theme opens up with tension, moving upwards but not reaching the root note of the scale in the starting beat.
then it lulls down by dancing around that root note, creating the "rest" period described in the video.
then it switches to a phrase in a higher octave that doesn't interact with the root at all, creating an even higher tension
followed by a phrase that brings you back to the root note
dance around the root note once more, ending on the root note
rinse, repeat
the ending fit perfectly with the curve they described
Does the engagement curve apply to books as well?
I feel this can help me become a better writer too. Huh... never thought about this
David Milch said something similar. Every episode of Deadwood builds up to the end of the season while still having an arc. Most TV shows don't follow that formula and that's why the mid season episodes often suck(The Walking Dead is a good example).
I just thought of regular low-profile assassinations in Assassin's Creed as an example of pacing: the rise at the ejection of the blade, lull as you grab the victim, and a spike of sound to mark the stab as well as the animation.
With how many people that have seen this, and stuff like that makes me very optimistic about how awesome the future is for games.
I always end up doing so, no matter how hard I try to resist.
Hmmm... I can kind of see this is some songs too.
Interesting. I think this actually helped me put into words why I like the story of certain games better than others, or certain parts of the story in some games better than other parts. The Silent Hill games actually comes to mind the most for me - the first game is the only one that I feel gets it completely right, shifting between tense and claustrophobic parts and parts where you feel a bit more (a BIT more) safe and in control. SH3 has a ton of great stuff in it, but it's a chore for me to play because the tension almost never drops. I never stop feeling in danger, and therefore I get jaded to it.
I'll take the opportunity to say, though, that I don't hate Silent Hill: Homecoming as much as you seem to. I actually thought it had a pretty solid story, though it's true that it had a higher degree of splatter horror to psychological horror than the other games (though all of them have both - the series ain't ALL high-brow). It's just the combat system that brings it down for me. It's boringly impossible to manage until you realise that most enemies can be brought down by spamming quick knife attacks, and then it gets boringly simple instead. :P But other than that, I thought it had a lot of personality and ambiance.
Fractal pacing!
So, how exactly do you translate that curve into something quantifiable?
Let's say you want to use it in the firing animation for a gun. How do you take that curve and apply it to the animation? Do you just read off the graph for how much to perturb the coordinates of the model at a given moment in time? Do you read off how much velocity to apply to it? What _exactly_ do you do with it?
Or, what if you're using it to decide enemy placement in a scrolling shooter. Do you use it to put 10 enemies in a 50-tile span, 20 in the next, 40 in the next, then give a span with none?
I guess I'm really asking this because the episode on procedural content suggests using it, but even after re-watching this one, it's not really clear how to go about doing so.
I'm Playing Ys Origin now and it has this curve. I'm still at the beggining but.....
The game starts with a cinematic that draws you in. A bit of intro is done and you have your first engagement, boring. You then get your first spell and get used to it. You're dragged into a mysterious magic then it's some exploration from there, showing the game's Zelda like puzzles. You fight a few champions that improve the engaement then fight a mini boss, big engagement spike. More exploration, champions, puzzles than it's the first big boss battle.
Normal Combat and exploration here is the dragging part but the boss fights are epic. It took me a few tries to beat the mini boss and more than 10 to beat the big boss. That's just on normal difficulty.
Just realized after watching this that literally every raid boss in WoW has this exact curve and I never realized it
Peaks and valleys, highs and lows, pick your friends, not your nose.
This probably explains why Minecraft can be so scary when you start out. The tension biulds as the sun sets, you battle the mobs, survive the night, fight off one last creeper as day breaks, and then you can rest up, until the next night.
The Junkenstein's Revenge event in Overwatch was a good example of this.
yeah, dead space took the second route in the "bad survival horror" route, the first few times necromorphs burst out of nowhere got my heart pounding. It eventually got to the point where necromorphs were practically coming out of the plumbing, thats when it just felt like a routine shooter, wait until enemies show up for protagonist pie, shoot to kill. see? it gets boring after a while
Just a few tips here:
Blocky/Pixely graphics are extremely easy to make. Imagine them as Legos.
Use Construct 2 or GameMaker Studio (GameMaker is recommended because of 3D support and cheaper versions that will let you sell your games) if you don't feel like coding. But im pretty sure GM Studio has coding, not so sure about Construct 2. You can easily find them on Steam as Software.
As a writer, I think this is also broadly applicable to story outside of games
play the video at half-speed and it sounds like you´re so tired of this shit hahahah
2:24 who can mention the movie that pic is from?
I think I saw a chart similar to that in a Pixar video thing! I don't know if the guy was the first one to create it though...
I just finished watching Avengers: Infinity War, and all I could think was that the writers could have greatly benefited from this video.
i just googled him, and i'm suprised he worked on Call of Duty series and Farmville. its weird having those two games in same sentence.
One day, I'm going to see a picture of the members of Extra Credits, and I'm going to say "Wow that's pretty cool I guess." It will be great.
4:53: Yup! I know that feeling. Monster Hunter does the pacing of action just insanely well! When you swing your Ginormous weapon you just feel the power flowing forth! :)
Are you Swedish?
007speedcuber Yup! Proud little swede, reporting for duty!
Mad MaxLFury Road had absolutely excellent pacing.
Half-Life establishes the setting in the beginning with narrative simplicity, and the game really begins at the big event when the entire facility suddenly goes up in explosion and you see mere glimpses of the aliens you'll soon be fighting.
And there are large events when big things happen, getting relatively bigger and bigger with linear paths leading to each encounter.
And the story was very well crafted.
Watch this: go to Escapist Magazine /videos/view/zero-punctuation/6126-Half-Life
Would it be smart to apply this system at game difficulty?
If you ever have a picture you cant find the original location of. Drag the picture to the site TinEye. It helps me all the time when i wanna find the picture or just wanna find a better quality version. Or Google Images can do something similar but not as good.
How can I translate transcript to spanish and fix the automatic CC for English???
Love the videos, but I believe you mean a fractal, not a tessellation at 5:25
i love extra credits they give credibility to the medium
Photoshop or Gimp (cross platform, free) will work well for textures. Music's not really my thing, but I'd recommend looking into Audacity (free), or Max MSP (smallish fee).
I'm a Masters student studying to become a game designer, and these are all things I've learned or been taught. If you're really interested, I hope this helps give you a jumping point.
And keep in mind your games don't have to use a computer. I've been making physical games my whole life, and learned many helpful strats.