Continental's TD300 Turbodiesel
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- With its purchase of the assets of the Thielert Aircraft Engine company, Continental establishes itself as the major player in aircraft diesel. But before it bought Thielert, Continental was developing its own in-house diesel, the 230-hp four-cylinder turbocharged TD300. On the way to AirVenture, Paul Bertorelli stopped at Continental's Fairhope, Alabama facility to have a look at it.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
There has to be a way to make aviation parts more affordable. $80,000 for an engine!
Get the Lawyers out of it! LOL
is that the price for 1 engine or 10???
That's more than a used Cessna!
Use an outomotive engine, even a used one. Much better than this old piece of metal...
And with a crawling top speed off 130mph? Just ridiculous.
I'm a huge Diesel junkie so I love this (I;m building my dream Toyota with a JDM sourced factory 3.0L 1KZ Turbo Diesel and have TDi jetta and TDi powered Suzuki LWB Samurai). I would think a diesel should thrive in a drivetrain where it can be held at steady engine speeds and have amazing torque to spin that prop on take off aye, but I don't know how engines behave in plane drivetrains relative to how they behave in cars/trucks. I am so interested to learn more about planes/etc. I know combustion engines and cars/trucks/boats, but turbo-props and what not are still something I don't fully understand. Always more to learn and we have so much information available to us now days. W're very lucky (to a point).
$90K for one engine, that is to for what looks like an engine from 50s....
It can be done for a lot less..
For that price I want a turboprop... Jeez
To be fair for Turboprop add another zero to $80,000.
Show it running!
Blame the govt. They put such a high tax, legal costs, testing, validation, etc. That is why everything is so expensive in GA. Everytime a pilot buys a certified GA anything, he pays off some congressman's Ferrari.
I have a nice 2 bdr. home in AZ, great location, nice landscaping. The home and lot appraised at 95K and it's a home with aircon/heating, landscaping, etc. How can you ask 95K for an engine?????
If you think thats something, I bought a 2,000 sqft 3 bed 2 bath house in New England for 114.5k.
Answering the entire gallery here really.
500 guys out there with deep pockets willing to spend that kind of money RUIN it for the thousands of others that could otherwise afford it. If those 500 guys would just close up their wallets, desperation and the law of economics, would force the manufacturers to come back down to earth. The manufacturers think of it this way - they can either sell to 10,000 buyers at $4500 per engine, or they can sell to 500 buyers @ 90k each. As long as there are people willing to pay 90k per engine, they don't need to build more than 500 engines. Why should they bother lowering the price? Either way they're looking to get their $45,000,000 in sales. You can't snuff greed out of the human condition. It really is that simple. Insurance, Lawsuits, Liability? It's all about greed (and bad pilots and their ambulance chasing lawyers). Economy of scale is a myth. The definition of "value" is nothing more than what one person is willing to do for the amount of compensation they're willing to accept.
Odd that the ceiling was only 12,500 - 20,000 ft, given that the turbo was originally developed to allow planes to fly extra high...
Diesels also used more boost to start with, so the ceiling is less than a petrol.
Glad Continental addressed the engine running in colder conditions, with altitude performance increase! We trust Continental:)
How does this engine compare weight wise to the DA62 Diesel engine?
Guess I was asleep at the computer when I was suddenly heard him say the smelly diesel four banger cost $90,000USD.
@90-100K good luck
$95k USD!! WTF??? my DD 16 truck engine is about HALF that price!
And that's a massive 16 liter 600hp heavy duty industrial engine!
I’ve heard of jet ski motors for light aircraft. What about a thermoking diesel motor out of a reefer trailer?
Dang, I was excited until he said it cost more than my house
Is there a way to calculate operating costs? Also a bit worried of takeoff performance he mentioned
Also is there a version pf this engine for the 206,
Now compare that to a VW 1.9L TDI swap.
+JeepCollector91 Cough cough.
Apples and oranges.
This is a direct drive set up? No prop gear?
So target a segment of the market that has trouble getting avgas but does not have a problem getting diesel... and price it at (most likely with any adds) $100,000. Well he sure ain't talking to me. But to whom or where is this market? Anybody have any idea?
Let's hope the remanufactured ones are a lot more reasonable in price!:)
Woulda liked to see it fly...
Any electronic fuel Injection?
Nothing left of it today. 6 years later ...
So is this product still offered or did they discontinue it?
95k for a 230hp diesel???? Wtf
Muito bom pode rodar no Brasil?
Since when did turbo diesels become more expensive than turbo shafts? Or when he said 85 to 95 thousand dollars, did he mean Hong Kong dollars? Because even if he said Canadian dollars or Australian dollars, $95,000 still wouldn't make sense.
Turboshafts are typically used in helicopters, Turboprops are used in aircraft and a turboprop will run you far more than 95k!
Close to $500K !
You can’t even overhaul a small turboprop for under 150k let alone buy a new one lol.
They are charging for the research, cost, and development plus FAA approvals and inspections.
@@Jolinator How much better and powerful a turboprop! No comparisons. Lemons and apples.
That engine was designed by SMA(Renault subsidary)years ago.Continental bought the design.Whats new?
Will it be available in the 1 ton super duty version with a short box.
+Fred Al LOL, in the 1/4 tons, the big boy trucks make over 500, their little engine cannot muster half that.
I have a 2017 F-350, PowerStroke, crew cab, short bed, Ultimate Lariat trim, and I didn't pay anywhere near what they are asking for just that engine.
Sheesh, there has to be a way to get the cost down!
I could buy 5 homes in Alabama or buy this engine 🌚
So no start up and run so we can hear it’s sound, thanks
...or...
I can build a VFR Velocity XL-FG with a VW 2.0 TDI conversion and still have enough left over to fill up the tanks.
Show how the engine works. Show how the Airplane flies with top performance. show the airworks. Lycoming should be laughing right now. Hello FBO.
Throw in some Grey Poupon and a driver I mean pilot and I'm in.
Now who's loaning me a few bucks?
95k I can own half of the country of mexico plus all the hot latinas why would I spend on a engine ,
Well, a new plane can get over a million. I think that's their target market.
Shut Up and run the damn engine!!!
Exactly!
Amazing engine
If anybody can successfully switch an engine from gas to diesel, Continental should be able to, it's not like they haven't done it before, and very successfully.
$85 to $95?!!! That's 10 year old 172 money!
THIS ENGINE SEEMS TO HEAVY WEIGHT LOTS OF MOVING PARTS COMMONLY DIESEL ENGINE PRODUCE LOTS OF HEAT LOTS OF FRICTION WEAR AND TEAR OF PARTS ITS HARD TO BELIEVE PISTON DIESEL ENGINE IS FLYING ITS HARD TO MAINTAIN ITS TEMPERATURE ITS NEEDS LOTS AMOUNT OF ENGINE OIL ITS PRODUCE LOTS OF VIBRATION
The 182 line was launched in what? 1962? The FAA has simply sucked the life out of the light plane industry. How quickly we forget.
1957
I guess these fellas are dads and continued the story after there kids went to sleep yaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwn, Why am i watching this at 5pm in the morning, There depressing voices was the last nail in the coffin, im of to bed good night peeps
Isn't this the SMA engine?
+Tjita1 It's Continental's improved version of the SMA engine.
U$95,000. ! ! !
for that I'd want the QE2 in my Driveway.
A diesel pucker! LOL 20,500 is impressive tho. Is the plane pressurized? I don`t think soooooo
Cost for an uncertificated engine would be nice!
can you get one with a cummins?
diamond aircraft come with a mercedes :))
Ok motor Mercedes,, não é melhor mwm?
_Incredible increase, across the board. That 12,500 to 20,000 is huge! You sure pay for those advances. That's what I payed for my house! I can not fathom that. When it comes down to it, It's just an engine! Oh.. but don't say that to the folks here at Continental, that would be like slapping their mother._
+Blaze0357 I know 90k for such a small tiny engine not even making 300HP, what a joke, I could have a 2500HP turbo diesel truck for that or less.
That weighs in the neighborhood of 1,000 lbs. Not exactly practcal for avaition use...
why airplanes don't use normal car's engine?? like honda, toyota, ford, chev , etc ??? basically, whats the difference between cars vs plane's engines???
Lower quality standards, heavier construction, internal geometry optimized for low rpm operation. Despite all that, they still seem to outperform LyContisaurus engines, but purpose built aircraft engines would be better. Check out the Adept Airmotive 320T, it's an automotive-style engine that was designed from the ground up to be an aircraft engine.
Let us know when they start building Opposed Piston 2 Stroke diesel engines, which are lighter, more reliable due to fewer moving parts and cheaper to manufacturer, more powerful (275 hp from 4.9L displacement) and up to 20+% more fuel efficient versus today's diesel engines. czcams.com/video/JoQkTIfAB2U/video.html
Look up delta hawk..
DeltaHawk's design is not opposed-piston,@@anthonycyr9657
There have been opposed-piston 2-stroke aircraft diesels in the past couple of decades, but none have been successful.
The Westlake engine, later bought by Superior Air Parts and called Gemini, is an opposed-piston two-stroke from about the same period as this video.
Think I'll just add a whole plane chute, go with a water cooled automotive diesel, and buy a house with whats left over...
Oh no! Thank you! I'd rather fly on avgaze
Current Avgas is Leaded fuel. The EPA is pushing this issue so these guys have to go to alternative fuels.
".36 SFC" means 0.36 pounds of fuel per horsepower-hour of output. That's perhaps 10% better than a similar gasoline engine, but worse than typical small diesel engines (such as in cars).
Don't forget to swap fuel tanks.
Did he say 95k ? Holy S[^!
Why soooooooooooooooo expensive??? We all collectively should be doing all that we can to revive GA!!! Understand that Jet-A makes flying easier/available for other countries, but geez!
95000$ is understandable as they are the initial engines produced, and NO they not compare to any land application engines converted to airframe use as they must be incredibly reliable because life of the passengers are at risk in the case of failure.
I known many folks that converted a variety of automotive engines to aircraft use , many of them failed the conversion, one killed himself in a self built aircraft accident and another near killed himself in the same pattern.
Amateur aircraft construction is a very serious activity and nobody should do it himself if not supported by an amateur association as it is very easy to make a catastrophic mistake that costs lifes
+Jacques Poirier 90k for not 300HP, what a joke.
The power-to-weight ratio of a turbine is much better than a gas piston engine. And even more so of a piston diesel. The fuel consumption per horsepower is somewhat higher. And price of a turbine is much higher than a piston engine. About 8 to 10 times the price. They don't make any sense until one gets into the 500HP range.
Fuel consumption of the turbine is much higher.
Will i EVER be able to afford an airplane??
$95,000? no thanks i'll stick with 4 complete entire airplanes instead
Where are you where you can get a whole plane for $23,750?
Because I want to go there...
hahahhaa! good LUCK getting emissions devices on that thing! with the low end torque it will be bad ass
I might be a newbe but why is the engine 10 times more expensive than a car engine?
80k? That's some supreme horse shit continental.... Might as well go for an austro...
95,000 $$$
Who spends that much money???
call me when they are available for 25,000
Really, what makes these parts so expensive?
CASE IN POINT
2014 Piper Arrow -- Complex, 150mph (cruise, at 11 gals/hour burn {13mpg}), retractable gear
AvGAS vs Jet A1
Jet A1 wins, no doubt
***** Mogas wins!
It’s a brand new engine. You’re paying for the research and development to create and test it.
GA is expensive because they don't want you to die.
Think about this: what's the worst that will happen if your car has a complete mechanical failure? You pull over and get a tow to your favorite shop, right?
Now, what happens if your plane engine blows up right after you fly past the end of the runway? 200 feet AGL, and you're in a suburb with only office buildings to land in? That's a little more serious, isn't it?
Too bad you didn't demonstrate it, only talking about it.
I came here to hear it run... I am so disappoint.
Ya... I'd just build a gold plated OM606 for that price.
95k? Why? Somebody could convert a diesel car engine for a few thousand dollars.
Fleece Johnson I bet half of that price goes to insurance premiums. It is ridiculous.
+Fleece “B00ty Warrior” Johnson Ridiculous price for an engine.. Someone should look at converting a Renault 1.5 DCi not as powerful but very good MPG (Have seen over 90 MPG on the road)
+johnyfartpants Diamond aircraft have the Austro AE300 which is a 2.0L 4 cyl engine. I own a twin star 42 which has two Austro engines and my fuel burn is only about 10gph *usually around 8.5gph at cruise* and with jet-A at $2/ gallon here.. it is very cheap to fly.
The Continental diesel single engine burns 18+gph by itself.
+warmfreeze Not even close. It burns 11gph at cruise.
certification costs are the main issue. Ask the FAA what you need to do to get the engine certified, calculate the costs. Take manufacturing costs and average cost for warranty. Then go into the market and figure out how many items you may sale in a timeframe you can afford to wait to pay off the investment. Then you will get a pricetag for a single engine which will be at that level.
Less marketing spiel more running engines. I want to hear this thing purring, I want to hear it straining and trying to rip the chocks out of the way.
I also want to see some crazy motherfucker put one of these in a dune buggy.
+TestECull I work at Brookley Field (KBFM) In Mobile Al. and see this 182 all the time. To be honest it sounds no different on taxi or a takeoff run than a stock 182. The only way you can tell that this 182 is a little different is the extra long prop shaft and the cowling made to cover it.
You could buy one hell of a tricked out top of the line luxury diesel pickup for that kind of money. Its a fucking piston engine for fuck sakes, crankshaft pistons valves camshafts nothing new so you add a few extra bolts and some extra metal for strength but 85k, What, are they built from titanium and platinum then gold plated?
I think I will just stick with my Lycomings. I can over haul both engines for less than the 95K you are willing to ask...BTW...$95,000.00 for that diesel...does that come with KY Jelly or do you just fuck the public dry??
+MotorsbyShooter LOL, 90k for not even 300HP, what a joke.
No shit. I will keep my 540 Lycomings along with their 350 horses.
+MotorsbyShooter Your Lycomings burn 20gph. This Continental burns 11gph of cheaper Jet-A. The amount you save on fuel costs would probably more than make up for the additional cost of the engines.
ldmax
Except the engine is a joke
EpiDemic117 No kidding. Add to that, These engines have a TBR of about 2000 hrs. No overhaul, you just replace the whole engine with a factory rebuilt. I can't quite agree that Ford diesels have any edge technology wise tho. I have mucho experience with those, and IMHO, they have a pretty lousy track record as far as reliability and longevity go.
Okay, Continental, we appreciate your long service. But... why did it take this incredibly long period for you think of updating your products? Also, $95,000? that's almost ten times what Cummins or Detroit Diesel charges for one of their 600 horsepower, ten thousand hours before overhaul engines.
+JoshBobst LOL, I'm surprised you are the only one to mention that, for 95k I could build a 2000+HP 7.3PSD easy...
I guess their vices cost a good deal, so they pass the savings on to whomever is daft enough to fall for it.
A compound turbo is better than a single turbo!
As a life long racer I would never trust a turbonetics turbo. I have seen so many blow at the track,street and drags. Do your customers a favor and put a reliable precision turbo on there
You can't make diesel light weight. 17to1 is low CR for an oil burner. You know when they say a lot but nothing about weight, econ, performance. Water cooling as afterthought is draggy.
I hope they put emission equipment that's standard on automobiles at some point.
+towlie911 They won't, the aircraft needs the power and efficiency. Emissions equipment kills power and efficiency.
+towlie911 The alternative for most piston airplanes is 100LL, 100 octane low lead. Leaded fuel with awful emissions. Even without the heavy emissions equipment (which makes the engine less efficient and less safe), it's a cleaner alternative.
towlie911
I was about to say, the current emissions status of aircraft gas piston engines is leaded gas with a massively rich mixture.
certification means 5x to 6x the price, astronomical maintainence costs, and parts ripoffs and availability that would make a jewish accountant fart dust.
+madisonelectronic LOL, fart dust LOL
Aside from the absurd price, this isn't even a Continental design. It's the SMA 230 licensed and spit back out into a Cessna, the other absurdly priced aircraft line...
Answering the entire gallery here really.
500 guys out there with deep pockets willing to spend that kind of money RUIN it for the thousands of others that could otherwise afford it. If those 500 guys would just close up their wallets, desperation and the law of economics, would force the manufacturers to come back down to earth. The manufacturers think of it this way - they can either sell to 10,000 buyers at $4500 per engine, or they can sell to 500 buyers @ 90k each. As long as there are people willing to pay 90k per engine, they don't need to build more than 500 engines. Why should they bother lowering the price? Either way they're looking to get their $45,000,000 in sales. You can't snuff greed out of the human condition. It really is that simple. Insurance, Lawsuits, Liability? It's all about greed (and bad pilots and their ambulance chasing lawyers). Economy of scale is a myth. The definition of "value" is nothing more than what one person is willing to do for the amount of compensation they're willing to accept.
as a aircraft mechanic, h
Much heavier constructed engine and very long inlet tracts from the turbo. A petrol will be much lighter and far more responsive. That thing there will most likely have huge lag..
+Draxindustries1 I'm not sure lag is that big of a deal in an aircraft though. Jet engines have an inherent lag but it doesn't seem to be an issue.
Hey mommy! Why does that airplane have a big black smelly stripe on it from front to back?
Notice that is TBR, not TBO. This is for a narrow market; foreign, low-altitude, warm, and where you cannot get gasoline. Gasoline is what you want. They are cheaper, lighter, and require less maintenance. Diesel at 20,000 feet? R-i-g-h-t. The air pressure at 20,000' is 6.75 and very cold, instead of 14.7 and warm. Cut the throttle at 20,000' and tell me about all your turbo boost. It will be sucking in low density ice cold air with an effective compression ratio of 7.8:1 rather than 17:1.
Waste of time you never see or hear it run
And wonder why they have shit sales
( years later and the aviation diesel is still not very popular, wonder why? besides being grossly overpriced.
Reality check, turbine engines have large advantages over piston engines because of the weight difference, but jet fuel is heavier than gasoline, a diesel aircraft piston engine will have to be heavier in construction to accommodate the type of operation, coupled with the usage of heavier fuel it will offer no significant performance advantages over the Avgas engine.
+John doe - Here's a "reality check" for you: Jet fuel is far more available worldwide than avgas, while sources of avgas have been going away in recent decades. That alone is a significant, _critical_ advantage over avgas engines.
Your comment here suggests you paid no attention whatsoever to the information contained in this video.
***** Car gas or Mo gas is just as available as jet fuel, if you're going to build an aircraft piston engine, build one that uses Mo gas. I personally burned nothing but car gas in a small airplane I owned, with no problems.
John doe
With statements like that, it's hard to believe you're a former aircraft owner, much less an aviator. See www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs01grc.html. NASA's General Aviation Propulsion (GAP) program isn't about substituting unleaded automotive gasoline for leaded gasoline in inefficient 1940s-technology engines. This program has been underway for about 20 year, with its roots in the AGATE Alliance of the early 1990s..
***** I realize what it is all about, finding an alternative to 100LL, that the world as a whole can embrace, and car gas is the only other fuel besides diesel that is plentiful, and the inefficient piston engines designed and built during WW2 used more destructive testing during the design process than any current aircraft piston engine manufacturer, Their is nothing Continental could teach former companies like RR, Allison or Pratt & Whitney about producing high performance aircraft piston engines. I not only owned a small aircraft but I was a licensed A & P for 20 years, my specialty was piston engines, and the design of those inefficient engines as you call them were written in blood. When I first started working on aircraft back in the 80s I wondered why they didn't use newer technology like in the automotive industry, but I learned to appreciate the inefficient simplicity of the aircraft piston engine.
Mr.Green Their were several aircraft produced and certified to run on car gas, look closer at the Twin engine Aero commander with Lycoming GO480's on it. Also during WW2 they had a fuel called 80/87 which was no higher Octane than what we currently use in our cars. I personally ran nothing but car gas in a 1979 F19 Taylorcraft for 500 hours, it was equipped with a Continental 0-200 engine, and I never had any problems with it. I also flew an Air Tractor AT-301 with P&W 1340 radial engine for over 1000 hours running car gas in the 1980's the fuel burn was higher per power setting compared to 100LL Avgas but we had no mechanical problems with the engine that could be attributed to the car gas.
All I saw was some corporate tools babbling thru their pie holes about some overpriced P.O.S diesel engine we never even got hear.
All it was is a frigging commercial.👎💩
Corporate ripoff to the average working man! I can put 4 Ford Racing 5.2 XS 500HP engines in for 95k and run 93octane? Diesel Turd! Go out of business then?