Tears Of The Kingdom Memories Timeline Placement | Theory
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 07. 2023
- The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom like prior Zelda games is the subject of timeline debate placement debate. And while it may help to pinpoint the placement of also Breath of the Wild, the debate goes beyond just the current time, but the history it tells as well. The Tears of the Dragon quest memories tell of the founding of Hyrule, but the timeline placement of this story may not be so clear. Let's discuss which theory makes the most sense!
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @andresrestart
And follow me on my various social media so you won't miss the show:
/ andresrestart
/ discord
/ andresrestart
/ andresrestart
Sources:
archive.org/details/TheLegend...
nintendoeverything.com/aonuma...
zelda.fandom.com/wiki/History...
#tearsofthekingdom #breathofthewild #legendofzelda - Hry
![I Solved the Map of EVERY Zelda Game! [Legend of Zelda Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zz3FbQJXIvk/mqdefault.jpg)
We really need a TOTK dlc to learned more about the origins of Ganondorf, how his surrogate mothers, Kotake and Koume, became vital to his story, Gerudo’s time living a brutal/militaristic way of life in the distan past.
Maybe add several additional cutscenes that is much like the Champion’s Ballad in Breath of the Wild.
And since their names is written in the Gloom Sword, there is a potential for bringing in Twinrova for either Zelda and the Ancient Sages, or Link and the New Sages to faced with as a boss.
Plus, a playable Princess Zelda would be a great opportunity to see things from her perspectives. Maybe see her mastering her Recall abilities under Queen Sonia’s guidance and get confirmation if Rauru and Sonia have any children.
Different Kotake and Koume, like how there are different Impas. Ocarina Ganondorf is still the first as confirmed in the Encyclopedia. Tears Ganondorf is from Hyrule 2.
@@Luxembourgishcertain things in hyrukw historia are now kinda outdated. Also there’s no reason for it to be hyrule 2
@@connaileen There is every reason for it to be Hyrule 2. TotK states its Hyrule Castle was never damaged, how do you explain the damage that happened to the castle in OoT or TP?
One thing I would like to point out is the smoke ring above Death Mountain in the time of Rauru and Sonia: it's interesting simce the only other time we see this smoke ring is Ocarina of Time, so I like to think this indicates a time before OoT
Another thing that you are missing out is the Ancient Hero that fought the Calamity 10,000 years before Breath of the Wild.
Many have to believe he has a Zonai feature but Rauru doesn’t have a tail, and his ear is much longer compared to himZ
What I am pointing out is that the a Spirit of the Hero can’t always be Link. That Spirit can come from many forms.
The spirit of the hero is Skyward Sword Link so you'd think he'd be reincarnating into Hylian boys, not Zonai.
@@methodius--9405 Watch Zonai Link just be Link that found a cool transforming mask.😎
It was pointed out that the Castle Town mural was entirely made on artistic whim by the artist who made that mural.
Don't really matter as it's part of the game and the game is a refined rerelease of the game this is and all things is the hd remaster are official also
@@virusklaxsosaur4054 I’m gonna trust the primary source who said “yeah I made this up”
@@virusklaxsosaur4054 No, Nintendo was like" make something that looks cool" that's not canon.
@@nworder4life good to see you again 😎
@@nworder4life if Nintendo said to do it that means it was approved thus "canon"
Judging by the artefacts now being in the game, I think it’s safe to assume that everything in totk takes place at the end of the timeline and that it’s so far ahead that the old games are the “era of legend”. There’s actually mountains of evidence that points to it being all at the end, but I think the artefacts clearly display Nintendos intention.
Hey mrbiscuits! Good to see you again. I see we had the same idea here 😆
There's also prophesies. Why would there be prophesies? Isn't it a huge conicidence that a series that has time travel into the past, we just happen to have this random knowledge of things that WILL happen, too? Without any mention that a time traveler from futre came to deliver that info. Seems like THAT is the bigger stretch.
@@methodius--9405 I need to find that comment of yours on Shinto and Buddhism, because that actually sounded like you were onto something relevant.
@@wizcatcheslightning great minds think alike :)
@@methodius--9405 In TOTK they actually have a story. The zonai found them and put them in chests.
my biggest hang up with the whole "there can be multiple ganondorfs at once" is how in creating a champion they pretty specifically say something along the lines of there has not been any records of a male gerudo king since the man who became the calamity, which would be totk dorf no? so if there hasn't been any male gerudo kings Since totkdorf and the memories allegedly take place Beforeish oot, wouldn't that line in creating a champion directly contradict the existence of ootdorf?
I agree, however creating a champion also states, and I quote:
“A boy is born to the all female Gerudo tribe, as happens every one hundred years. He is named Ganondorf.
Ganondorf plans to take control of hyrule. He transforms into dark beast ganon and is sealed.
Ganon, having long lost his reason, becomes calamity ganon, a pure incarnation of hatred and malice for the royal family of hyrule and the chosen hero.”
TOTK Ganondorf never transformed into dark beast ganon, he was sealed as the demon king. And we know that for him thousand upon thousands of years pass in the blink of an eye, all the while sealed presumably without consciousness. So he wouldn’t be able to “lose his reason” and become the calamity. So that line alone points to OOT ganondorf being the source of the calamity and not TOTK dorf.
Also, as far as we know, there haven’t been any other male Gerudos born after OOT ganondorf. Twilight princess ganondorf AND windwaker ganondorf are both the same guy from OOT. And the reincarnation that we see in FSA is that of just Ganon, not ganondorf.
I wrote a fan-fiction to fix some of the timeline issues. I've shared it on a few other videos as well.
The Legend of Zelda: Roots of Reality
Many ages ago, the kingdom of Old Hyrule was sunken below the sea, and its people settled a land they called New Hyrule (in the Adult Timeline). This kingdom prospered for a time after the defeat of Maladus, and the people were happy. Until the king died, and his brother Mohar took over. Mohar was cruel, and was obsessed with using dark magic. His niece Zelda rounded up a group of refugees to escape from under his rule.
They take a Sheikah airship to a group of islands, where they land in a dense forest. The Koroks lead them to the Deku Tree, where he reveals that this place is the ancient land recovered from under the sea, and is now populated by the Zonai tribe, and other races like the Rito. The Deku Tree has restored a lot of land, but there's a lot of missing pieces to be filled. He needs Link's help to venture out and find these pieces. The Deku Tree's roots are linked to the ruins of the old Temple of Time. So he has the ability to reach into other branches of time, including an alternate timeline where Hyrule never sank (the Child Timeline). In the present day, this version of Hyrule is overgrown and overpopulated because of Twili magic. The Twili left a positive historical impression on them, and now the king believes their magic to be useful for everything. The Deku Tree wants to redistribute land between these two timelines.
But while Link goes on his quest, Mohar's forces pursue him and spread evil wherever he goes. Luckily, Link is aided by the other versions of Link and Zelda. Because Mohar is so powerful in dark magic, Link must obtain the Master Sword to defeat him. He can't use the other Link's Master Sword because it was severely weakened by Twili magic. So Link needs his timeline's Master Sword, which was found wedged inside a statue resembling a Gerudo King. Zonai warriors and constructs are guarding it, and they warn Link that pulling the Master Sword will release an ancient evil spirit that will be reborn in the future and wreak havok on the land. Out of desperation, Link battles the Zonai warriors and obtains the Master Sword.
After successfully defeating Mohar, the sages seal the evil king away in the past, so that he would lose access to his kingdom's resources and no longer be a threat. But when he arrives in the past, he gets caught up in an ancient battle between the Hero of Time and Ganondorf (of Ocarina of Time). Mohar forms an alliance with Ganondorf, and fuses with him to become a blue skinned, trident wielding Ganon. Together they defeat the Hero of Time and create a third timeline (the Downfall Timeline). Rather than seeing this as a loss, the Deku Tree sees it as a new world he can use to finish repairing the land.
The Deku Tree, having completed his work, was moved to the north to prevent possible misuse of his time travel abilities, and a Great Plateau was put in his former place. Most of the Zonai depart for the heavens, and Rauru and Sonia establish the next Kingdom of Hyrule. Ganondorf is reincarnated from the evil formerly sealed in the Master Sword.
I think the sea in Wind Waker is referred to as the "Great Sea" in game, I believe rock salt refers to a different "Ancient" sea.. maybe the one from Skyward Sword. Check the description from the Wind Waker items in game.
I've taken the TotK memories to be a signifier as to Nintendo pretty much rebooting Zelda and it's timeline. My reasoning is simply by looking at the story of TotK.
Ganondorf being a Gerudo king who wishes to steal a sacred maguffin from Hyrule, so elects to infultrate the royal court by a false swear of fealty. He gains the partial trust of the King, though not Zelda, and he uses this trust to stab the royal family in the back, using Zelda's conspiracitory plan against him as a vehicle to actually flip everything and steal the sacred maguffin. He then proceeds to take over Hyrule with his new power. In response, 7 sages representing the different peoples of Hyrule assemble to take him down in an event known as THE IMPRISONING WAR and seal him away.
An absurdly long amount of time later, after corrupting the place he was sealed to, he returns to attack Hyrule, but is defeated by Link who wields the Master Sword.
The storyline is so freaking similar to that of Ocarina of Time, the IMPRISONING WAR, and later the original Legend of Zelda, that I can't help but feel like it's meant to be a write over of the previous timeline. I mean, one of the sages is literally named Rauru, who is said to have built the temple of time, and led the 7 sages. It wouldn't surprise me if the Goron sage was Darunia, the Gerudo Nabooru and so on.
Someone may say that things like the ruins, and other references found around the world point to the other games, however, I consider the cutscenes and story to take presendent. Yes, there is a Temple of Time located in an area that looks like Castle Town from OoT, however, that could likely just be an in-universe coincidence for sake of a meta reference. Same with the outfits and other ruins. In this contienutity, it's possible that the "Zonai from the sky" and them being the predecessors to the Hylians could be a hint towards them being BotW/TotK's version of the Skyloft story, as Skyward Sword was ultimately meant to be tied to the other games.
This thought process actually allows for a lot of other questions about this game to be answered. Such questions as: "why does super Ganondorf look like Demise?" because in this universe he is Demise. He is the original evil of Hyrule, and it is from him that a cycle of destruction via incarnatons of evil is created, a.k.a the cycle of Calamity Ganon.
I truly believe that this is meant to be a rebooted retelling of the timeline, and that's something I'm really not a fan of. If you make everything else noncanon, then references to them just kinda ring hollow. I mean, what good is a TP reference if it never happened in this world. It also cheapens the feeling of history that had been developing within the mainline games for years, as now all of that just gets brushed aside.
That's about it, thanks for attending my TED talk
I have leant on this too, makes a lot of sense in some ways but my main gripe it is that what you propose makes nearly everything in the game an easter egg... Because nearly all locations among other items are references to older games. It becomes even more complicated as we then have to pick and choose what is canon versus an Easter egg and that list to go through is massive.
Knowing Nintendo though this is entirely possible but it doesn't entirely sit right with me. I do prefer it to the more linear idea of it being at the end or beginning of all other games as it then means we can interpret the classics based on this new starting ground... Eg. Is the hero aspect a hero that died before or after the Imprisoning war. The hero aspect could be the ocarina tof time link where Hylians look at him as a child because he's from the forest, a place where Koroks, children of the forest, reside. I like the idea that those games that follow, the classic titles are true but warped by Hyrule believing the players in this ongoing war to be Hylian despite some like the aspect being of Zonai /or some other non Hylian origin). The gerudo seem to have written that the sages were all heroine gerudo, so it's entirely possible that by the time of botw Hylians has rewritten there history to erase Zonai presence (intentionally or just through the passing of time)
It's either this or the merged idea but that also requires we fill in the blanks in a way that's all just headcanon at this point. It's very clear both arguments have run out of evidence to prove one way or another.
I enjoyed reading your long post.
It's nice to see a fellow andres also be as fascinated with the zelda timeline. Imho the memories could take place before skyward sword or after all the games but before botw/totk. I heard a theory that states that hyrule had a lot of restarts and that the zonai Rauru being the first king simply means he's the first king of a new era.
EDIT: Just heard you mention the theory in the video hehe.
Yeah. That one sentence qualifier Rauru says... At Least Since Last We Checked.... That is a massive expression of doubt on them being the very first rulers
Skyward sword actually kinda does have a time line split. One time line where you seal Demise under the statue of the goddess. And one where you defeat Demise and seal him in the master sword.
What's this from? There aren't multiple endings in Skyward Sword are there????
@Gawillamon this is purely speculation, but in my head, it goes like this: the time in the present you wish to defeat Demise and the goddess statue comes down to the surface, and the master sword is forged. That is the first timeline that leads to the Ocarina of Time timeline. The second is Giraham takes Zelda to the past, and you defeat Demise in the past and seal him in the master sword. The goddess statue comes down because there is no more need for it to stay in the sky, and the master sword isn't forged. That leads to the original games. Or the downfall timeline as it is called.
I gotta agree with you. I believe that BOTW and TOTK are an eventuality to the end of all 3 timelines. Here’s why.
Before the events of Skyward Sword, the Hylian’s and Zonia are lifted up to the sky simultaneously, but separate. After Skyward Sword the Hylians start to spread across the land in groups but a kingdom isn’t established. After a few generations of the humans living on the surface, a rapidly dwindling population of Zonia (for any assortment of reasons) descend from the sky and are perceived as gods. They had kept their knowledge, and technologies intact through writing, unlike the humans. In SS the Hylians way of preserving their knowledge was by telling stories from one generation to another, thereby making the Zonia many times more advanced than the Hylians. At some point Ganondorf the I is born. After some time of coexisting and sharing knowledge the Zonia have declined to only Rauru, and Mineru left. Sonia, a priestess, and a descendant of SS Zelda, and Rauru get married and start the Kingdom of Hyrule by unifying the different tribes around the land. The two have kids that we don’t see to continue the royal bloodline. This would take place approximately 350-400 years before OOT if the Gerudo we see at Ganondorf the I’s side in Zelda’s memories are truly Koume and Kotake. After the sealing of Ganondorf the first, Zelda becomes the light dragon, and the sages send Zonia architecture to the sky protected by the sky barrier to help Link with his quest in the distant future.
Skip forward some games and Ganondorf the II is born and sealed/ captured. after OOT happens and the timeline splits, Ganondorf the I is still under hyrule castle, thereby putting him in all 3 timelines. The downfall and child timelines are fairly easy to explain as you follow them till the time that BOTW happens. As for the adult timeline, after the events of spirit tracks the floods over old Hyrule recedes and for one reason or another the Hylians move back to old Hyrule, and then follow the timeline down to BOTW.
Now to fix some issues. According to the current timeline, without taking into account BOTW and TOTK there are 2 separate Ganon/ Ganondorfs. The main one that we see in every game he appears in except for in 4 Swords Adventurers. 4 Swords Adventures would then be introducing Ganondorf the III, as Ganondorf the II was killed in TP. So adding another, another one isn’t that big of a stretch. Also, in Japanese mythology a soul can exist in different bodies at the same time. We also see other characters get reincarnated as well. So 2 Ganondorfs could exist at the same time, and be reincarnated. As for races not being in some timelines, we are talking about an entire world that we only see a very small part of. They probably do exist in those timelines, just in different parts of the world and move around over time. For the different times we see the castle get destroyed. I believe that the seal only needed Rauru, and only Rauru to start with, and at any point that we see where the castle is destroyed was too early in the minimum of 30,000 years before the time Link and Zelda uncover Ganondorf the I. There was probably close to 10,000 years between each of: the sealing of Ganondorf the I, and the 1st calamity where the construction of the divine beasts would have started, to the calamity of 10,000 years ago, and calamity of BOTW. The main timeline would have only MAYBE taken up the majority, but not all of the first 10,000 years. Finally, such as in real life, we do have to take into account things such as: war, famine, persecution, boarders changing, a country expanding or declining, etc. as reasons to help explain inconsistencies. Especially where games can take place anywhere from a few years to centuries, or even millennia apart as is the case with BOTW, and TOTK from the rest of the timeline.
What’s name of the background music that starts at 4:30?
I think we can still reconcile TOTK prehistory can happen before SS. The war of the surface is similar to Demise summoning monsters against Hylia. The Master Sword can still have its origin later after the Zonai.
I think, basically, because Link's actions are a sign of player input, they're not normal to the predetermined canon, and the imprisoning war happens when no game is played and Link doesn't arrive to have infuelnce on the story. Essentially the player action is some kind of splinter timeline and there's mechanics with the time travel that works through this notion.
Think about it, these altered events are USUALLY grandfather paradoxes adn jsut make no sense. They seem plausible from the POST-hoc perspective because we travel with the active agent, but the actual canon doesn't actually require time travel, all the new changes could just as well brand new characters popping into existence form nowhere. They just HAPPEN to be based on the timeline that was erased, or left in the other side of the splinter, but they might as well be completely irrelevant in the LATTER timeline.
If "Link" travels through time from a different timeline that ends up being SPLIT, from the one he travels INTO, that "future" is completely disconnected from the one we end up with. It doesn't need the character who turns up to even BE Link, it might as well be Yog-Shoggoth farting himself into existence from another dimension. It's only Link because WE are given this false origin timeline that only LOOKS the same timeline as the one we end up in.
Seriously with the rock salt argument?
Rock salt found encased by other types of stone takes millions of years to form.
The fact that they are only found in this way all over Hyrule points to an origin in the distant geologic past.
Therefore, the rock salt we find in BotW and TotK is likely far more ancient than even Skyward Sword, let alone Wind Waker.
I like this way of viewing the timeline and I would add one thing, a theory from MatPat that adds Hyrule Warriors back into the timeline as a point where the three separate timelines merge back together, then Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. It explains why the world has elements from all three separate timelines and how BoTW and ToTK exist at the end of the timeline.
I havent played HW, but doesnt everything go back to normal at the end of the game?
Is there a difference between the imprisoning war and the sealing war, or are they the same thing?
I'm starting to think the past timeline with zelda joining raru is before hylia descending at this point. I do still think botw is after a timeline merge always have.
What I'm thinking is there is a kingdom before hylia takes her people into the sky for skyward sword. Afterall when zelda goes back, there is no knowledge of the master sword, and her name which is famous in all of the established timeline is known, and the rita and zora issue is they are simply driven out of the area after the clouds enter and their tribes merged into one bloodline which helps them adapt for wind waker.
Also triforce is completely ignored again, we have other people coming from the skys, but they don't have a connection to the skyloft people, which makes me think it was before... The hardest part of my idea is it then seems to predate demise, but I'm thinking this is the events that lead to the actual raising of the sky islands, and hylia's intervention was actually zelda going back in time. And demise was sealed before gannon attacked and he is actually the first reincarnation of him which puts us in need of inhabiting the sky...
But that's just my theroy
That rock salt detail is really cool, I never would have noticed that
I'd also add the fact that placing TotK's past after SS would raise the question why the king in OoT would trust another Ganondorf, if they had a landscape altering (literally) Imprisoning War just a couple centuries earlier, with just such an individual, down to the same name? If records of this survived tens of millenia into the future and the royal family is in the know in general, I am sure a couple centuries after the Imprisoning War the king would very much know of these events.
It'd also beg the question what the deal is with Hyrule Castle; it was supposedly built to act as a safe guard for the seal, yet it was destroyed absolutely in OoT and later in TP (and if the kingdom crumbled in the Downfall Timeline, there was no castle at all).
Some may say it's a 2nd castle somewhere else, but... why? Why would the Hylians build two castles? Makes no sense to me. It only makes sense if all this happens long after any/all of the games of any/all timelines and a new castle is errected on the seal and stood until TotK's present.
your questioning why the king would trust another ganondorf instead of asking how there was another one with the one is sealed under the castle
@@Defender1876 Yes, because people aren't sure whether or not there can be two Ganondorfs at the same time.
If not, the point is moot.
If yes, then my point still stands.
In either case, TotK's past being between SS and TMC doesn't make sense to me.
11:51 excellent find here, Andres!
Regarding the Rito. It's possible that this is a sign of concergent evolution, this Rito species could be an evolved form of an entirely different race or perhaps an early evolution of an isolated Zora clade.
i also hope there will be a totk dlc this month in september in the next nintendo direct.
5:00 that's not the case for the tree of life though. It wasn't there in the beginning, though if I remember correctly when you return to the present after planting it Groose acts as if it has always been there. So the timeline must have changed. Also i don't think the master sword is in the sealed temple, which would have been the case if it was a closed time loop like totk
I think the Zelda memories still take place AFTER the original timeline, but during the time between the merger and the events of the first Calamity
So, what about the Zonai? When Mining before Hyrule was founded they collected armor sets from history and locked them up near where they were found. They also use the Tech and styles from the Twili
The Zonai mining operations were implied to be directed by Hylia like in Skyward and in Skyward it was to create a machine that allowed time travel without paradox / splits. So what if they were creating a way to merge timelines, succeeded, and the survivors were directed to create Hyrule to start the cycles again?
I've been talking for a while about how there are things we don't see, in the memories or the chamberlain tablets, that tell me that Rauru's reign was before Skyward Sword. There is no recollection of the Master Sword, even as a fairy-tail. No chosen hero. Sonia's trained powers are very weak compared to Zelda's untrained power. Sonia shows no sealing powers, or prophetic abilities. Sonia does not recognize Zelda's name. And, depending on how strong, and consistent you think the cloud barrier is/was, it could very well have interfered with the raising of the land mass, into the sky.
The biggest issue people have against the idea is that there was a Ganondorf before Link battles Demise, and the curse is mentioned. This is like saying that Link couldn't exist before he went through the trials, and was blessed by Zelda/Hylia. Fi states that the spirit of Demise is destroyed, so Ganon isn't the reincarnation of Demise, to begin with. In the memories, the visuals indicate, to me, that he is drawing on the power of Demise, which would be easier if Demise was nice and healthy. Having A Ganondorf before Demise provides a willing vessel for Demise's curse, and motivation for Demise's attack.
In my eyes it's clear that the Deku Tree and korok did regrow, the Deku Tree forest is more lush, and the depths have those gnarled roots that seem to be everywhere. The Deku Tree is shown to reach down into the depths. The kingdom of Hyrule back during Rauru time also is covered in trees, and as botw shows there are lush forests in every single region of the game except for death mountain due to the lava.
The trees and Deku tree roots likely soaked up all the water left over from the great sea.
I personally believe Rauru time was after all the other games. It's clear the depths were open at that point as Mineru is aware of the construct factory, and its very intentional that all the ancient gear from previous titles are in the depths before it was sealed.
There's also considerably less contradictions if you take Raurus statement about his kingdom being the first as actually just from his perspective which makes sense considering Hyrule ongoing fall into chaos.
The pointed ears tell me that the Koume and Kotake, which are not pointed out directly but are instead a hidden-in-plain-sight an easter-egg, are not the same people.
It would have been a simple thing to make alternate Gerudo models with rounded ears, but they chose not to.
They gave this Ganondorf the round ears which implies he originates from an earlier time than the rest of the Gerudo including this Koume and Kotake.
Does anybody Remember the story of hylia in skyward sword? Is it a stretch to say that hylia gave herself up, was reincarnated as Sonia, and then the events of skyward words imprisoning war began, afterwards, leading "hylia" (a.k.a. the four sages) to lift skyloft into the air. Only then with links wish on the triforce was the goddess statue and that section of sky brought back to the surface
thank you for sharing
In “A Link to the Past”, the Dark World is described as a parallel world to Hyrule. I believe BoTW and ToTK exist in a separate timeline that is parallel to the original Zelda timeline, except this BoTW and ToTK timeline never splits. BoTW parallels Zelda 1 + Majora’s Mask, and ToTK parallels Adventure of Link + OoT.
This is an interesting video. Personally, though I believe this game and BOTW takes place after the Timeline Merge at the end and Zelda's memories take place after the game but before botw/totk.
The Gerudo in the memories excluding Ganondorf have pointed ears and different eye colors. Even Kotake and Koume in the memories are shown having pointed ears.
Plus Spirit Tracks shows Kingdom of Hyrule being founded again even in a new land. Who to say this is "First" Hyrule.
There are other evidence however, I won't get into it since this would be a super long comment LOL.
However, this is just my opinion so you don't have to agree, just don't jump down my throat.
I really want some DLC where the depths get new chasms which take you to Termina. I want it SOooooo bad
Skyward Sword is not a closed time loop though. Link goes back and defeats Demise in the past creating a new timeline in which Hylia has no need to be reborn as Zelda and instead the Zonai descend from the sky with the Hylians. That’s why there is no mention of Zonai in other games; they never descended because the Zelda plan was still in place.
Actually not quite exactly. At the point Link defeats Demise in the past of Skyward Sword, Hylia had already sealed him AND shed her immortal form (her being a Goddess of Time, as it pretty much confirmed by numerous signs throughout the games, her soul can be incarnated a long time after the act of her giving up her Goddess form itself - at the time she has seen it would be the right one). Of course, this is not meaning there isn't a timesplit in Skyward Sword, but it would be a timeline where Hylia had already become mortal).
I like to believe the theory that the Zonai are Skyloftians which decided NOT do live on the surface, and eventually become the Zonai through evolution (like they could have branched into the Wind Tribe from Minish Cap and the Ooccaa from Twilight Princess too). For some unknown reason, they descended to the land sometime before TotK (as stated in the game) an eventually died out (or returned to the heavens) with only Rauru and Mineru remaining, because Rauru re-founds the kingdom of Hyrule (and being Zonai, they are more connected to the cult of Hyrule, which explains why the cult of this Goddess resurfaces on Hyrule religion, after being pretty much absent or obscured through almost the entire timeline).
So, in the memory of Rauru fending off the molduga horde, he uses his sacred light power. It manifests as 3 upside down triangles, almost as if a triforce had each of its triangles flipped vertically. Is this some kind of proto-triforce? A zonai manifestation of the godess power?
If you take the events of A Link Between Worlds at face value, it’s hard to avoid the implication that each realm of creation is endowed with its own Triforce, as if the act of creation itself can’t be completed without a Triforce existing
Most likely we will get a DLC by the end of this year, remember that Nintendo took an extra year to polish the game, so chances are they are just fine tunning the DLC and release it by Fall or Winter.
You could wedge TotK here and there but it seems that Nintendo just rebooted Zelda while respecting the core games. Until Nintendo decides to do another timeline, it's up to imagination.
the ocean "Depths" are absolutely a thing.. i just wish i had more than headcannon, and textures to show it.
and all the old set's being down there...
It may be old hyrule.. but it dosent seem right
but the depths are hiding something bigger than that even.. at least i feel it
I don't understand how Raru and Sonya can form the royal family and set up Hyrule in any way, if they don't have a child prior to Sonya dying. I loved BotW but I couldn't even finish TotK once I had the majority of the story in front of me. There is so much that appears to just not make any sense.
How do you know they didn’t have kids off screen? Daruk and Urbosa have descendants, yet, not a single mention or sight of their children either. That, and Zelda is still referred to as their descendant even after Sonia’s death. Zelda also reads on the murals at the start that her ancestors were born from Rauru and Sonia’s marriage.
I disagree with your closed time loop analysis of skyward sword. Demise was revived in the past, and instead of being sealed away in the ground and being the imprisoned, his sealed and eroded away within the master sword…that’s a timeline split.
I think I have an answer for the Rito and that answer is the storm wing arch/wind temple, if you all recall a disaster befell the Rito in the antient past and they were forced to use the wind temple to escape.
The hylians did not know this and thuse thought they were whiped out and eventualy forgotten until wind waker when new Rito evolved from Zora.
Some time in the future before the great collamity 10,000 years before breath of the wild the wind temple returned and along with it the Rito of that eara.
Thats why I think the Rito were absent between the memerys of tears of the kingdom and breath of the wild.
In short the Antient Rito left with the wind temple after the memerys of tears of the kingdom, the Rito in the wind waker evolved naturaly and the rito in breath of the wild returned some time before the first collamity.
Except the Rito didn't left with the Windstorm Ark (nowhere in the game this is stated). There was a God that fell from the heavens (which caused the problem for the Rito, but they helped him return home. The God they helped return to heavens (which is most likely a Zonai) then sent the Windstorm Ark as a thanks for the Rito for helping him to return to the heavens. The Ark blessed the Hebra Mountains with winds that helped the Rito thrive. The story of the Windstorm Ark likely took place before the memories (there is evidence of the the Zonai Tribe existing on the surface before the Zonai culture we see in TotK) and later the Ark became the Wind Temple, for the purpose of housing the Sacred Stone for the Rito Sage descendent.
I haven’t seen the whole video maybe this is answered, but if this is the same timeline as BotW then wouldn’t Zelda’s dragon tears have been visible in that game too?
I also haven’t seen the whole video, but I assume it’s because she was above the clouds and not visible the whole game, probably to prevent Link from discovering her too early
They are there, however they only shine in the sun unobstructed by the cloud barrier
Sorry andres but this theory doesn’t make sense. The obvious reason for why the memories can’t be before Ocarina of Time, is the Triforce. In this same era, the Triforce is still hidden in the Sacred Realm. And the original Ganondorf would be after that instead of the Zonai secret stones, because the Triforce is the ultimate power and Ganondorf would not care about the secret stones when the Triforce is up for grabs.
None of your other excuses or special pleads make sense either.
There are two viable options. Either a re-founding of the kingdom in the distant future when the previous histories are forgotten (soft reboot), or the previous games are just irrelevant to Nintendo these days (hard reboot). It’s one of those two. You pick your favorite
Skyward sword isnt a closed timeloop, we go back in time to kill demise but we also kill him in the future by dropping the goddess statue on him to complete the forgotten temple. Its unclear how tje gate of time works, but if it was closed timeloop, there would be no reason to kill demise with the goddess statue, as at that point he had already been destroyed in the past when we duel him
He isn’t destroyed in the past. He is sealed. Both Fi and Impa refer to him being sealed away. The Triforce was the only thing that could permanently destroy him, which it does in the present. All we do during the final battle in the past is re-seal him.
@@WindMageMaster nah he gets sealed in the master sword where he presumably dies after his curse
@@ethanw-brown573 The whole point of the story and why everything happens is because sealing Demise wasn’t enough. The whole mission is to destroy him with the Triforce. Hylia- a goddess, makes clear that is the only option and sacrifices her divinity for it. And why would he die in one seal but not the other?
But then another issue, how does Old Impa have the bracelet the entire game if Zelda only gave it to her ‘in one timeline’?
@@WindMageMaster fair point, but then if demise is sealed in the sword, how does he end up back in the sealed grounds if its one timeline?
@@ethanw-brown573 The sword is likely connected to the sealing spike in some way. The sealing spike is absent in the past, and in the present, it reacts only to Link and the his sword throughout the game. The spike also has the symbols of Din, Farore, and Nayru- whose flames crafted the Master Sword. Honestly, the ending is kinda vague and sorta sloppy, hence why people have so many theories on it. If they were more straight forward and precise, we probably wouldn’t be debating this tbh. One thing worth noting, is that if you scan the Imprisoned with Fi, during the first two fights she doesn’t give much lore. But during the third fight, she states that the Imprisoned acts as a vessel for Demise and that he was sealed by Hylia long ago, but then states that some details about it are still left unclear. Just an interesting line to factor in.
Spoilers!:
Personally I think this games "time shenanigans" are that this game actually "bookends" Skyward Sword, the ending marks the "DEMISE" of Demon King Ganondorf, ETERNAL Dragon, creating Eternal Demon King Demise, sealed by the Goddess Hylia(Zelda) before Skyward Sword, having transcended time and having lost everything but his Malice and Hatred, including enough power to be sealed by an inferior Master Sword.
so the imprisoning war didn't take place in the memories? I've been thinking that was the case the whole time lol
I'm pretty sure Rauru and Sonia was in a future new era of Hyrule after the events of every Zelda game. don't the Gerudos in BotW acknowledge that Ganondorf was born and there was a legend that the Gerudo race birthed the demon king every once in a while.
exactly! the clothing of past heroes! if this was BotW and we only got those things through amiibo I would understand it not being canon, but they canonized them in TotK
Skyward sword isn't the beginning of the whole Zelda timeline, but the BOTW, TOTK one.
I do think the developers meant SS to be a closed loop, but they messed up in a couple places. The thunder dragon wasn't always alive, and the tree wasn't always in the sealed temple.
It gets complicated to explain, but link changing the future is actually what causes him to go back and change the future. For more information (and a better explanation than mine) look up a “grandfather paradox”. Regardless, from what we see the things link alters in the past will affect the same future where demise was killed with the triforce. SS is indeed a closed loop.
@@methodius--9405 SS is a closed loop because any events that alter the future alter the same future where demise was killed by the triforce. Grandfather paradox or not it’s a closed loop that doesn’t cause a timeline split.
@@methodius--9405 the grandfather paradox merely explains how the altering of the future still make it a closed loop. But whether that is the case or not, link in SS only ever changes the same future where demise was wished away by the triforce. If it caused a split, we wouldn’t see these effects in the future or the future would be a different timeline. Neither of these are the case. SS is a closed loop.
@@methodius--9405 link alters the same future where demise is wished away by the triforce. Link will always seal demise in the past and wish him away in the future. This is established at the start of SS when we here the legend of the hero who defeated demise, SS link goes back to create that legend. Even after he defeats demise in the past, he returns to the future where demise was wished away and you can see the effects of link from the past in this particular future. The things like the tree and the master sword are easily explained through a grandfather paradox, this makes it still a closed loop because link was always destined to go back and change the past. Either way, we see the tree and the master sword in the future where demise is wished away, meaning SS is a closed loop. Even if a grandfather paradox isn’t the case, we know from what we see in game that link is only altering a closed loop.
@@methodius--9405 how so? I suggest you play skyward sword. We literally see in game that all the events of the past altered or not will lead into the same future. This alone means SS is a closed loop that doesn’t cause a timeline split.
Could all Zelda games be telling the same story just different interpretations of some events and some only remember parts of the story or in different orders and change the tale to fit. For instance the imprisoning war of the downfall timeline when link losses in oracles of time, the imprisoning war of breath of the wild and demise being sealed before skyward sword are the same event but the person telling each tale didn’t have the same information about the event as other tales so the story differs.
One of the gerudo says in gerudo town that she'll have her "Husband" gather more of the stuff I just bought from her....Explain that to me😂
Sorry to be that guy, but twilight princess easily had the best story out of any Zelda game by far. I think you need to go back and experience it. The lowre was leagues above anything breath of the wild, skyward, sword, or tears of the kingdom has done.
Tears of the kingdom past events can't possibly be before the timeline as we know it. It has to be at the far end of the timeline, just like Nintendo said.
There’s mountains and mountains of evidence pointing to this, but the fact that the ancient Zonai uncovered the artefacts from the past games makes it clear that this was Nintendos intention.
@@mrbiscuits001 Agreed
11:22 Well, maybe OOT Ganondorf isn't a reincarnation at all, but instead another attempt from Kume and Kotake to raise another demon king, named after the original one.
Personally, I don't believe the memories of ToTk take place after Skyward Sword and before all the other games. My view is that they happened sometime after all the 3 timeline banches end (they merged somehow, or similar events took place on all three). For some reason Hyrule was wiped out and Rauru and Sonia are the founders of a new kingdom (it wouldn't be the first re-founding of Hyrule, we see New Hyrule in Spirit Tracks). And because Rauru is of Zonai bloodline, he would have re-introduced a more prominent Hylia cult (my theory is that the Zonai were Skyloftians which didn't came to the surface and evolve separately, maintaining the Hylia cult more strong, as opposed to the Hylians that eventually left Hylia's name and cult more or less forgotten). This is why we see the same Goddess Statues and Hylia religion in BotW and TotK, when in most of the timeline she is a "Goddess of Time" without name or great importance.
u want proof of this being in the adult timeline how about the fact that where there is water now up above the depths the depths had mainly solidified in to rocks or some type of earth also the huge chasm surrounding this hyrule making this hyrule like it is on it's own great plateau
Downfall timeline can’t be the other 2
I think what many people are missing
is the understanding that Tears of the Kingdom doesn't take place in the Hyrule of our past games.
The timeline goes as follows:
1. Skyward Sword (the beginning)
2. All canon games (Nintendo's official timeline), including Ocarina of Time (the middle) that we've played throughout our whole lives.
3. Rebirth of Hyrule (current history)
Everything from the history of 1 & 2 on my list above has now become an ultra-ancient legend, almost a myth.
How did we arrive at the reboot of the history in a way that it's canon? Simple, we can blame one link from the ancient past in one timeline split that stands out. He was the last link before the Hyrule of Breath of the Wild would come to exist. This link is the sole person responsible for collapsing and merging the three timelines.
This would explain why the Rito exist, and why Breath of the Wild contains artifacts and legends from all three timelines in one place. It was Link from Zelda 2 (NES).
(To see the canon timeline, you can check CZcams for the ending of that game.)
It belongs to the "Hero Fallen" timeline, known by Nintendo as "the decline of Hyrule" (the era of dark and light). This timeline begins with Ganon entering the sacred realms and ends with an incarnation of Link who actually wields the full Triforce.
The particular timeline ends with "the era of decline," which is also an homage to the first two Zelda games that weren't placed chronologically first in the canon but poetically last in the chronology. The new timeline continued from Zelda's first two real-world games.
In Zelda 2 (NES), this incarnation of Link fights his mirror version, Dark Link, which we've seen in games like Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess in other timelines.
This Link then acquires the FULL Triforce, and although it is not explicitly stated in the 1900s game, we now know from the canon that the Triforce grants the wish of anyone who touches it.
We also know from A Link to the Past that "the stronger the desire for the wish," the more powerful it will be. This Link prevents Ganon's resurrection, goes to the sacred realm (where the Triforce is kept), fights Dark Link, obtains the Triforce, and awakens the sleeping Zelda, to which she says, "You saved Hyrule," which was already in decline and in bad shape. This is the timeline where the Hero of Time fell.
The Official Historia teaches us that in this timeline, the Triforce was used by the monarchs of Hyrule throughout time until Zelda 1 & 2 - the tragedy of Zelda.
But it was none other than the Last Hero (Zelda 2) who, though not mentioned in that game because it's from our real-life past, was placed in this position because his wish on the Triforce resulted in a reboot of Hyrule. The wish was so strong that it allowed for Hyrule to have a fresh start, going back to the point of Ocarina of Time and merging the three timeline splits into one reality moving forward.
This new Hyrule was then "Founded By Raru and Sonia," Hylian and Zonai from the lands in the sky. It didn't erase the canon past but rather passed it all into ((legend)).
The people in Raru's time know that there is much history to Hyrule, and they will be the first to come down and establish the first kingdom in this blank slate merged version of Hyrule.
This is why items from all timelines exist in our current map, and bits and pieces from previous games are all found in our current Hyrule.
Breath of the Wild is our modern era, and Tears of the Kingdom takes place six years after Breath of the Wild.
The Zonai flashbacks are more than 10,000 years in the past before the Calamity Tapestry, but also many years after the wish for the Triforce from the last hero (Zelda 2).
The reason for a new Imprisoning War (which is also found in the fallen timeline BTW) and why Ganondorf looks like previous ones is that, by the time of these events, the timelines have all been merged.
Thus, moving forward, Vatti, Ganon, Ganondorf, and anything else from other games have all happened. Our Link now, moving forward, and possibly any later Links, will be connected to events from all games.
Thank you.
This makes sense, the reason why Ganondorf reincarnates is because Rauru sealed him away. In a way its a piggy back off of Denise's curse
Nah, just like there could be more than one Ganondorf, there could be more than one Kotake & Koume. Further the memories in Tears Of The Kingdom show natural landmarks / mountain ranges seen in Breath Of The Wild, so it's the same land. Heck, you even see that temple (the one where Link gives his decayed Master Sword in the present and Zelda receives it in the past), that temple is seen in the memories of Zelda's tears. Why would the land change so much from the Breath Of The Wild land, to Ocarina of Time Land/Wind Waker/Twilight Princess, only to then turn back to Breath Of Wild land? Memories happen after all other games, except Breath Of The Wild
Skyward sword was indeed the worst mainline zelda game of all time. Windwaker closely behind it. Everything else was good.botw and Totk are the games I wanted since 2001 after I beat majora
The problem with TOTK memories happening before OoT is, this would mean the version of Hyrule Castle seen in BOTW/TOTK would have to exist in all timelines, and Dehydrated Ganondorf would also have to exist, sealed, in all timelines. That doesn't fit. He can only fit in the Downfall Timeline. BOTW/TOTK can only take place either in the Downfall Timeline, or a potential unified timeline. Having overt references to the events of games from all 3 timelines really complicates things too.
Also, I believe in Skyward Sword, the time travel within the game was a closed loop. However, Zelda being taken to the past to awaken Demise, and Link defeating him, was NOT part of that closed time loop. And it's POSSIBLE that could've created another timeline. I'm not saying for sure it did, but it's possible.
Another theory I heard is, Zelda going back in time, actually created the Downfall Timeline.
The problem is, all of these theories explain parts of BOTW/TOTK. The only theory that can fully explain everything, is to have the TOTK memories take place either in the Downfall Timeline, or a unified timeline, far in the future, after Hyrule fell, and Rauru re-founded it.
If you want my opinion...not even Nintendo knows. They deliberately leave things vague, to stoke fan discussion and speculation. Then they take their favorite fan ideas and incorporate them into Zelda canon. So...whether we like it or not, WE are determining which timeline the game is set in, without even realizing it.
12:20 I would like to point out how we see malice spewing out of ganondorfs chest where he was sealed, even before Raurus hand fell off.
I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to assume some malice inevitably leaked out and found a suitable host (wether that be a male gerudo, an eldritch chancellor, etc.)
We also see the life leave ganondorfs eyes (as well as raurus) maybe that ganondorf became what’s essentially a husk of the demon king, allowing for other incarnations to take form.
A fair amount of assumptions, but I think it’s at least a reasonable explanation they could have been going for
That’s not malice coming from his chest, it’s Gloom. In Ganondorfs character profile in TOTK it states that the sealed that was holding him weakened when the calamity attacked the castle 100 years ago, which is most likely when gloom started slowly breaking through. In fact the only reason Link and Zelda are even exploring beneath the castle in the first place is because people are starting to become sick from the gloom coming from ganondorf and they’ve tracked the gloom to his sealing chamber. I don’t disagree with you that since he was sealed, the curse of demise had to find a new host, which explains the existence of oot ganondorf, but when we compare malice and gloom, they’re completely different things.
@@Sn_A815 thank you for the correction, I always forget that gloom is not the same as malice.
@@Sn_A815
"The curse of Demise had to find a new host" that's not how it works. The curse in the original Japanese states that the Demon Tribe, Demise's army of monsters, would reincarnate. No mention of some evil spirit seeking out "hosts" to do evil with. Even if Ganondorf is included among his "Demon Tribe" by virtue of being evil, it means that Ganondorf will reincarnate and grow up to be evil. He is not a "host" for the eldritch being that is Demise's Curse because his curse isn't like that.
If you're citing Hyrule Historia, Zelda Encyclopedia also states Ocarina Ganondorf was the first, explictly never yet born from Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, to Four Swords.
I think the definitive timeline theory is that the downfall timeline is the result of Tears of the Kingdom's Zelda going back in time and changing history.
(Imo, Minish Cap and the Four Swords games are barely canon, so I'm not equating them into the discussion)
When Zelda went back in time, she was sent back to around a bit before where Ocarina of Time would've taken place.
Ganondorf, was going to start the great gerudo war, which would've killed Links (oot) parents and created Link from OOT to be the hero he became. But when Zelda was sent back before that happened, she supported Raruu by making him effectively stopping the Great Gerudo War, changing history forever.
This theory means that Raruu and Sonia are Zelda's (oot) parents, and there is plently to believe from that due to the same name being used and the fact we do not know who the King of Hyrule was.
As the great Gerudo war never happened due to Zeldas presence, Link never became the hero of time, and Ganondorf chosed to attack from within the castle much earlier this time.
I believe Totk imprisoning war IS the imprisoning war from Link to the Past, and all the Ganons from the downfall timeline were all just versions of Calamity Ganons manifestations.
This also goes with that the Zelda devs confirmed before that this Ganondorf is the same one from the other games, and with similar history and repeating scenes that collerate from OoT, this makes the most sense to me.
Mainline Zelda games never acknowledged the four swords games, and I genuinely believe that they're just not canon to the mainline stories, so Minish Cap imo is not good enough proof that this timeline couldn't happen, for me this is the definitive reason the Downfall timeline exist, and also actually gives a good reason why the downfall timeline exist, rather than just being an "what if" timeline
Hey Andre, another zelda theorist here.
Skyward Sword isn't as closed-loop as you think. Remember, Link leaves the master sword in the past, comes forward while Demise is decaying in it, and it is still there in the sealed temple along with Impa. It's there in front of the doors that we have been walking by for the entire game, the same door you can peek through and see the Amber that Zelda sealed herself in. You altered the future by leaving the Master Sword in the past. That alternation could be the change that leads to another fork in the timeline from Skyward Sword.
...At least that is what I was arguing about 3 months ago. With added conflicts and contradictions presented due to TotK, it seems to me that SS didn't even happen anymore and that BotW and TotK are entirely an unapologetic reboot.
You’re correct in saying that you alter the future, but you only alter the closed loop as all the effects of links actions in the past where link seals demise change the future in which demise is killed by the triforce. Therefore leaving it a closed loop despite being altered. It’s a grandfather paradox, link changes the past so in turn link will never go back to change the past causing the original events to happen which will cause link to go back to change it. Link not changing the past actually causes him to change the past.
@@mrbiscuits001 You are incorrect. Link left the master sword in the past in the pedestal in front of the door. You see that spot all game, Impa sits there. If Impa has the bracelet from Zelda, from the same scene mind you, then leaving the sword too should have always been there. Since it wasn't, time was altered.
@@PixelFusionProductions yes it was altered, but it alters the same future. It’s a grandfather paradox.
@@mrbiscuits001 are you claiming time forks don't happen? The altered timeline they left behind could be the one that BotW follows from. A world where Demise was destroyed by the Triforce.
I'm not going to defend it, the story has problems. I'm happy you agree that they altered time like I said, thus proving the time travel of SS isn't as circular as was being claimed.
@@PixelFusionProductions it isn’t necessarily fixed in one place true, but I think because we see the affects of links actions in the past in the future where demise was killed makes me think that a scenario similar to the one in Totk was the general intention by the devs. It seems the devs didn’t think about it too much, so i don’t think we should either 😅