Was Lord Borros Sexist or Right Not To Support Rhaenyra For Queen?
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
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Did you know in the books was Lord Borros right not to support Rhaenyra? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
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In a way, he had a point. In alliances like these, there will be marriage pacts right behind it. And Rhaenyra thought House Baratheon would support her just because a Targaryen who is way behind the inheritance line has Baratheon blood. She should’ve offered Borros Joffrey Velaryon’s hand to one of his daughters at best.
Or just sent Rhaenys to do the negotiating
I’m not sure a marriage between a boy under ten years old and a young woman around 20 give or take at the youngest would make a good match…………
@@Jakegothicsnake doesn't matter. Even if there was just a betrothal it would've won the baratheon forces to blacks. And it's fairly common in westeros
recent eg; tommen, who's near the age 7 or 8 is wedded to Margery who is twice her age.
@@JakegothicsnakeBorros daughters had no exact given age in Fire and Blood. His oldest was between 16-23, his youngest a year old when the Dance started. Book Joffrey was 12, so perfectly at an age for a betrothal.
@@JakegothicsnakeBorros Daughters we're around their teens also an age Gap dosen't mattered of they Accord to let them come to age and just do the Accord For political reasons. Margery being in her teens was Married with an 8 years old Tommen.
The last line is extra funny considering it's two girls that cause this entire problem when george wanted the show to start with the actual conflict
It’s two WOMEN
@@carastone3473Potato potato
Viserys should have been content to never marry again in case he had a son and this succession issue would arise. If worse came to worst and his only child died then the targaryen line could still continue thru daemon
This correctly shows how irresponsible and selfish the Targaryens were and are to the Baratheons, ever since Aegon made them Lord Paramount and Jaehaerys purposely passed over Rhaenys things have never been the same since then.
Viserys failed to teach Rhaenyra and Rhaenys should’ve told Rhaenyra that Storm’s End would be a no go.
I mean it's feudalism aren't all the lords and ladies, irresponsible and selfish. Doesn’t the whole system exploite the poor.
It's completely Rhaenyra fault for sending Lucerys emtihanded. Even Jace had to promise the Stark a marriage pact to ensure they loyalty.
At least send Rhaenys who knows him and is closly related to him. Uncle in the book, Cousin in the show.
I forgot for a second that ned was for the most part an exception in the starks and not the rule
I’ve always wondered if House Stark would’ve supported the Black faction without the marriage proposal, since Cregan Stark’s father Rickard Stark had sworn an oath to basically make sure Rhaenyra gets on the Iron Throne when she was announced as heir by her father. House Stark rarely breaks oaths, especially in the time period from and up to the Dance of Dragons.
@@magicaljagical647 They probably still support the Black ,but with far less vigor. The host Cregan mustered by the end of the Dance would've been the only Northern force that join the war, if at all. No Winter Wolves would be sent ahead of time.
To have the Starks to join the Green, however, require the Green to reach out to Cregan before Viserys' death, ideally before Aegon and Haelena were wedded.
Bruh, he seems so reasonable for a baratheon
How is being sexist reasonable?
@@BenMedia7being sexist has nothing to do with it, it’s a matter of survival. If you were the most feminist lord in the seven kingdoms you would either cause your house to go extinct within a generation or cause a war (or if you’re the king, the bloodiest conflict in the history of Westeros as seen in the show.) people who say Aegon and his supporters are wrong just because of sexism are delusional.
@@BenMedia7law wise, he is right, he’s just abiding by the laws of Westeros that he himself lived in.
@@nahlataha1744law wise he is not right the kings word is law that’s how monarchy’s and feudal systems work and the king just made female succession legal
@@7eddiiiNo the King's word is not law unless he's Maegor.
His daughters marriage would be rather short lived lmao
That always made peace afterward so they could target someone else, just like Cassandra and Maris Baratheon did.
Westeros in general is pretty sexist (except for Dorne). Lord Borros is just doing exactly what everyone else did when it came to men inheriting over women.
Even Rhaenyra was sexist when she supported men inheriting over women when it came to House Stokeworth and House Rosby.
Rhaenyra's claim was based on the fact that she was Viserys's named heir. That wasn't the case with the Rosby and Stokeworth girls. Plus, the girls were really young and would've been wed to Hugh and Ulf.
@@BenMedia7 Yes, Rhaenerya always thought of herself as an exception. She thought that being a Targaryen Made her special, almost Divine. But that Made her Lost the support of those woman who she saw as lesser.
Based Westeros.
@@BenMedia7 In law, you can only bequeath what you own, and the Crown is never the property of the monarch. He is the protector and guarantor, not the owner.
@@wewuzkangz2505 *Backwards
It’s also very likely Lord Borros’ maester intentionally misinformed him of the contents of the letter as the maesters hate magic and are believed by the fans to be plotting to kill all the dragons
Too much hate against the maesters. Green side also had Dragons. What can they "missinform" that Lucerys couldn't explain personally.
I always laugh when people talk about sexism in Westeros, it's based on medieval society where women were seen as nothing more than property. Wtf did you expect?! The UN to condemn the Iron Throne?
Take off your 21st century goggles when you watch GOT or your gonna lose your mind.
Dorne is the most fictional kingdom in ASOIAF, second only to Summer Isles. Both of those kingdoms are too good to be true lol
Exacly. I am loosing my mind over people who try to bring our modern standarts to a medieval inspired story
Yeah I’m just trying to be objective here but Lord Boras sounds pretty reasonable!!!!
The gods did grant him a son ..what was his name?
"I have nothing against women
buuuut...."
It's so silly that Viserys create such a problem after marrying hightower... If he didn't perhaps this fat lord might come to beg for Rhaenyra s favor...
The problem was trying to force Rhaenerya as a Queen. He HAD to remarry and produce heirs, was his duty. He should have been king first and father second, and put Aegon as heir or marry him with Rhaenerya instead of be afraid to hurt Rhaenerya feelings.
@xCoatlicuex He failed at being both King and father by completely ignoring his other children except Rhaenyra.
He also couldn’t read. So it’s no telling what the grey rat told him.
Borros the Based
Why exactly do you find sexism based?
Be a bit more specific
@@BenMedia7Are you going to cry under every comment?
@@BenMedia7men's are just better
@@BenMedia7it’s not based,but in that world, if you put women in charge of a great house you might start a war
If Rhaenyra had followed Lord Boros' advice she and all her bastards might have lived and House Targaryen might have kept their dragons and their power.
Instead they lost the Seven Kingdoms all because she wanted to usurp her brother's right.
2 of Rheanyra's bastards survived but Alicent's bastards are all death.
@@yusufraage8554 Alicent had no bastards because she wasn't a slut.
Also Robert Baratheon and King Bran in coming
Usurp her brothers right??? Little mf was never named heir LMFAO
Honestly.. he's right.
But morally, it's wrong. It's just keeping women down from ever ruling. You say you love your daughters, but do you love them enough to make their own judgements by being a high lady of Storm's end?
How is being sexist right?
No he’s not because it’s HIS choice to have his son succeed him just like it was viserys’ choice to have rhaenyra succeed him
@7eddiii yeah and a war followed that almost wiped out their bloodline.
@BenMedia7 he did not made the rules just follows them 🤷♂️
Based Lord Borros
Why exactly do you find sexism based?
@@BenMedia7🤓
@@BenMedia7 Why not?
@@BenMedia7you are everywhere with this reply
You outta pocket mate, was Queen Alicent also sexist for supporting her male kids instead of Rhaenyra? If you out of content just shut your channel down...
Yes she was???? How do you think otherwise?
@@user-or7km1yk4t She's doing what ANYONE in her position would. Aegon is her son; why should she support Rhaenyra? Imagine giving three boys to the King only for him to be the only man in the Six Kingdoms to deny a trueborn first son the right of inheritance.
Common Baratheon W
I mean the throne was promised to Her,Plus the The oldest Green…is a pos that doesn’t even know want it
Custom has always been that titles passed to the firstborn son over any daughter though, except in Dorne.
You can see why people wouldn't be comfortable with that rule being done away with and it can open up a whole can of worms. Let's say for example that you and I are both lords but I'm married to your older sister, what's stopping me from invading you to claim her birthright?
Plus Queen Rhaenyra is hardly a great person in her own right. The parentage of her kids was always suspect (and confirmed in the show), she is married to prince Daemon who while popular with the peasants of KL isn't exactly on the best of terms with nobles of Westeros and a bit of a loose cannon in his own right.
Aegon is a bit inept for sure but at least he's the first born and many hoped that he would die anyway and would be replaced by his far more adapt brother Aemon.
I mean Viserys took the throne from Rhaenys who was both first in line and much more more deserving and capable enough ruler
@@PowergeneticLiterally any political marriage has that risk / possibility, even with eldest sons. And seeing how oaths and fealty were a big deal in that world.... And seeing how easily they disregarded the king's declared heir and the oaths they swore to him and her to uphold her... Going off your example, you can just as easily toss aside the promise and protection that a marriage is supposed to bring between two houses.
"Well, we all ignored the king's decree and renounced our oaths, right? So why should I still be expected to uphold some promise to a lesser lord?"
Also, Rhaenyra's character is immaterial because if you apply that logic universally, Aegon should have been aborted from the Red Keep years ago. And speaking of inheritance, customs, oaths, etc... going back to your implied logic in your example and then apply it to the apparent wishful thinking others had for Aemond... Imagine if younger siblings had the same disregard as apparently lords who marry eldest sisters do in your example? There would be a civil war every time there was a younger sibling who entertained the idea that they could do a better job.
@@Powergeneticlaw>customs and the king made female succession legal bud
@@Peterminator-nj3odand then he made female succession legal by choosing rhaenyra as his heir
Anyone know where the fanart based on the books comes from? I’ve been reading them and I think the art that differed from the show is great
Pretty sure that Rhaenys and Borros are more closely related than the latter thinks they are. If i remember correctly, isnt Borros the son of Botemund Baratheon? If that's the case that means that Rhaenys's mother, Jocelyn, is Borros's aunt, making him first cousin to Rhaenys.
each house determines its rules, he shouldn't have an opinion about it, if he didn't agree, he just didn't give his word when he took the oath. Furthermore, when Luke gives the letter to Rhaenyra, it is the citadel's maester loyal to the Hightowers who reads it, so we will never know what was said that made him so angry. It really is a shame what a fool Jaehaerys was to leave the choice to the sheep and elect a weakling as king.
He’s not the one who took the oath, his father was. And it’s part of why he’s so insulted that Rhaenyra mentions the oath as her only reason he should side with her
He is allowed to have an opinion, specially when they want their help. It's that entitled attitude of Rhaenerya what makes her Lost support. He didn't any vow and has right to give his support at who he considered better.
It wasn’t his call to announce succession. That had already been done by THE KING!! If he had an issue with it why didn’t he discuss it with Viserys before he died? He was using the Targaryen civil war to climb the social ladder, pure and simple
Well, he's right.
They were first cousins
Well... that IS sexist... he's just doing a sexism that we accept.
sexism did not exist there for he was not!
Ugh, another character that just makes things worse. Did Borros get to see his boy? What about the boy's name? Dear sweet karma.
Completely sexist. She isn’t his daughter’s and she was named heir. The fact he even looks so lowly of her is disrespectful. This is why they shouldn’t marry outside their family and split power.
It IS sexist to hold up exist traditions. How is this even a question?
These ai shit channels have ruined youtube.
Honestly 100%, I have recommended for this channel to be shut down bc its diverting from ASOIAF content into woke culture.