STRANGER THINGS Season 4 Ending Theories | The Hidden Twist Explained And Season 5 Predictions
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2022
- STRANGER THINGS Season 4 Ending Theories | The Hidden Twist Explained And Season 5 Predictions. We explain Stranger Things 4 Volume Two and talk about how Vecna could still be alive inside of Max. We also give predictions, theories and everything we think will happen in Stranger Things 5
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Ok so Stranger Things 4 Volume 2 takes things to the Max with a big ending that sees several characters dying. This includes Dr. Brenner, Eddie and Max who we dies during the battle with Vecna. Now though she's brought back, Max is left a little worse for wear and come the conclusion she's in a non responsive coma.
The finale sees Max using herself as bait in order to draw Vecna out so that Steve, Nancy and Maya can go to his body and burn him alive whilst he's distracted.
This works as well with them getting the drop on him whilst he's fighting Eleven and Max. Unfortunately though he gets most of the way through his ritualistic murder and he not only blinds Max but he also breaks several of her bones, killing her in the process.
Eleven reaches out to her mind and she manages to revive her but it is possible that she should've let her sadie sink, ey into the void.
Using their good memories she pulls her back from the brink but she may be harbouring something much worse in Vecna.
Now throughout this video we're gonna be going through our theories on what's going on with her, how Vecna may be alive and a lot more. If you have your own theories then make sure you leave them below and also don't forget to subscribe for videos like this every day.
With that out the way, thanks for clicking this, now let's get into our big Stranger Things 4.
Now the final fifteen minutes of Volume 2 has Eleven not only visiting Max in the hospital but she also attempts to reach out to her through the void. We find Max in a non-responsive coma and thus El tries to get through to her on the psychic plane to see if she can pull her back that way.
However this is completely devoid of any life or signs that Max is there and this could be because she's technically brain dead.
This is reflected in what Lucas says too.
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Clinically she died and came back but her consciouness didn't. Because of this she's now an empty vessel and it is possible that Vecna also now exists in her mind, using her as a way to continue living. In the Season Finale he ended up falling out of the Kreel house on fire but when Steve and the gang went to check to see if his body was there he'd got out of it like Nancy did her relationship when sexy Steve smiled at her.
Gaaadamn.
Though his was destroyed in the physical sense, Will confirms that he's still out there and we see this reflected in the environment. Not only is the doorway to hell starting to bleed the upside down into Hawkins but there also exists a black cloud off in the distance that slightly resembles the Mind Flayer.
As a child, young Henry Creel used to be fascinated with Spiders and he drew the shape that would go on to terrorise Hawkins. This was clearly how he viewed himself as being and upon going to the Upside down and coming across the shadow particles he said the following.
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Will's emotions for Mike and El could leave him vulnerable to being manipulated. Its possible Vecna will control Max, hopefully El will be able to get in during that time and sort of 'awaken' her.
How did Eddie die to save Dustin? People keep repeating this , but is factually untrue. His death was of no consequence. I figured they would kill Eddie and I see they were going for a hero moment here, but it didn't pay off. Eddie could've just as easily escaped the upsidedown behind Dustin and it wouldn't have a changed a thing
Kinda mad they killed Eddie. He was quickly becoming my fav.
@@kindredwolves im not mad they killed him necessarily. I am mad they were going for a hero moment, a sacrifice, but for me it didnt pay off. I mean, i did not see anything that he did that changed anything or saved anyone. I mean you see this in many movies but at least you see the result. Eddie felt he had to do what he did but bc what exactly? Not to run? I wish they wouldve done it in a way that wouldve meant something
my biggest question remains how did steve dustin nacey and robin make it out of the upside down? the portal killed jason when it was opening
I think Max's consciousness is trapped within Vecna as he absorbed her. Once he's defeated she'll probably come back, or she'll help 11 on the astral plain at the end of season 5.
thats a great theory (might be better than this one as well, just dont tell anyone as I want them to watch the video)
She’s most likely permanently blind
I completely agree with you and I think you’re absolutely right. When Eleven went into Max’s Mind-Space she was no where in sight. Therefore I think Max’s consciousness was absorbed into Vecna and trapped within his collective mind.
Exactly. He absorbed most of her consciousness into himself.
Yeah I agree, Max'll probably have a battle with 11 in the Vecna's mind.
I never thought I would love a character as much as Eddie for only ONE SEASON. “I didnt run away this time, right?” BRO THAT TORE ME IN HALF. Anyways, I have a feeling Will will be the ultimate sacrifice, he's gonna be the one going 1 v 1 with the mind flayer, with the help of El of course.
That shows a lot of courage from Eddie but all honesty, them bats were on steroids so he should of went with Dustin. Fuck that.
It totally pissed me off about Eddie.
Still pissed in PA.
It makes alot of sense to kill one more character as a sacrifice that makes 4 people that sacrificed themselfs for good the reverse of what vecna did
@@laziestbones5989 the final kill that Vecna needed was Max, who did die but was brought back by El after the gates were opened
@@savonlofton I know that but there have also been 3 people to sacrifice them selfs to save others what I'm saying there's got too be one more person to sacrifice himself for the others then that makes 4 people that sacrifice them self the reverse of vecna sacrificing people for his own needs
Max is in a coma but she’s not dead yet. Vecna/001 technically “killed” Max. Lucas mentions that her heart stopped for one minute and that’s how the portal opened and why the clock chimed four times. But Eleven somehow saves her. At the hospital Eleven goes into Max’s mind but can’t find her. It’s just empty. In the massacre scene 001 told eleven that the kids are not dead but still in his head. Papa also mentions how 001 consumes the people he kills. My theory is that Max’s consciousness/soul is in his head and if he’s defeated all the captured souls escapes. Since Max’s body is still intact her soul has a place to come back too, while the others can’t be saved because their bodies are completely destroyed.
And I think for sure Max could be the key to defeat vecna in his mind with El, someway will be two big wars, on his head, relasing max and waking up in hospital, I think for sure this scene when max open her eyes making zoom to her is going to be the end of one chapter, and the second war, face to face in a big war with demodogs, gorgons and the mind flyer iwith all the cast like in avengers cause they make something like infinity and engame story losing the first battle with some "lost" bringing back all them to defeat the bad guy with some epic way
I like your theory. Can I add something to this?
I think that either, Vecna is gonna release Max to use her body without the others knowing (kinda like Will in season 2)
If not that I think you’re right, but there is also the possibility that they get Max back before that. It would be a waste of Sadie Sinks skills to just have her being in a coma all season you know?😅
I think Eleven might figure out that Vecna has her mind sooner, (maybe after reading her letter) and go in to find her in Vecnas mind and lead her back to her body. Max will tgen be a big part in stopping Vecna because she has been in his head for some time, and knows his weaknesses.
The whole “Max being blind”-thing, I really hope they resolve. Suddenly getting a disability is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a person, and I really don’t see how they would be able to resolve that storyline in one season. Max needs to have some kind of a happy ending. Thematically it wouldn’t make sense if she doesn’t with all that she’s been through. The themes of depression and grief, in season 4 needs to somehow have a resolution, with her getting out on the other side. You know?
@@indigo-dorcaslarsen5821 Yes I like that, but for this reason i also think that she will has a date with lucas on the cinema as they said it on the last chapter why I said that, the writters make the same with joyce and hop in season 3, when joyce said hop to had a date in Enzos on FRIDAY, then hop "died" same now, when lucas to had a date in Cinema when? FRIDAY and then max "died" at the end of the season max and lucas and hop and joyce will have their dates FOR SURE
@@indigo-dorcaslarsen5821 I think we will see Max back for sure. Wouldn’t make sense to spend so much time on her after her “death” just for her to die in the beginning of season 5 or lie in a coma all season. I think she will be blind and I think that’s a good thing. It would be kind off anticlimactic for her to almost die like that just for everything to go back to normal. It would also lead to some great acting and scenes.
Remember season 2? When the Mind Flayer was inside of Will’s body, they didn’t want to close the gate because that would kill the Mind Flayer while he was in Will’s mind, thus killing the host and the demon. So, they had to burn the demon out of him, instead.
I doubt freeing Max is gonna be as simple as killing Vecna. To actually save her, and disconnect her consciousness from Vecna’s without destroying it, I think it’s gonna be a bit more complicated then just killing him.
Eddie had to die narratively speaking, he was wanted by police for being a satanic murderer so unless season 5 was to become a court room drama him dying a hero was easily his only storyline ending that made sense from the moment he ran away from Chrissys body
I totally agree, but realistically Jason should’ve been a top suspect too.
First his GF vanishes
Then his teammate dies at the lake in front of him and Eddie
And he was also at the scene when max almost dies
Narratively I think they could have pulled off convicting Jason for all the deaths but he would’ve been innocent
Yeah, I agree with you, however they could've had the town finally find out the truth about what's been going on. That "earthquake" is literally on fire with a storm, the Upside itself, pouring through. At which point Eddie could be blamed for it or people could wise up and realize he's not to blame
@@savonlofton yeah honestly I expected Eddie to die just because of how irreparably damaged his reputation was. He got scapegoated so hard and it was kinda foreshadowed when he said “society needs someone to blame” during his lunch table speech in ep1 of s4
That being said I’m still annoyed Jason wasn’t being reconsidered a suspect after he was at the murder scene of his teammates death in the lake
@@samuelault4723 that's why I think they should've explained more the "Satanic Panic" phenomena. We get glimpses but it was a true massive hysteria in the US, and if they had given more detail - bc not everybody knows about it - it would have explained better the fallout of Eddie
@@samuelault4723 I like that theory!! not stand Jason from the sec he showed up
I just REALLY hope Max doesn't stay "dead" like this. Her whole storyline this season was an amazing parallel to overcoming depression and suicidality and her ending up dying scared to death and not ready when she has finally accepted that she does have something to live for would just be insanely cruel and sending a really weird message.
It would be which is why I think she'll be back. If they wanted her dead, they would've done it already. They had plenty of opportunities this season. Still, they had El revive her and she ends up in a temporary coma. Her story definitely isn't over.
I agree with both of you 100% I know this is wanting cake and eating to but I think it would suck if her part in S5 is some astral plain that only Eleven can interact with. The thing that comes into question is the time jump they are suggesting will take place and what is Max’s condition when they start the season.
If she dies would be nice. They keep killing off new likable characters. They need to kill off an original character even tho she not really original. If she died would be good for the story.
@@AT-gu1vr They will either do flashbacks or their will be a couple more episodes then usual to show what happened before the time jump. Max should wake up because it's likely she could become vital in defeating Vecna for good.
@@keeselash165 you’re not wrong that would be good storytelling. Personally I’ve always leaned more to characters than the purity of the story especially if I really like the characters. And as far as them only killing likeable characters they seem to be at the very least consistent with their approach. They also didn’t kill Robin last season or this one. Anyway S5 is the last one I’m sure all bets will be off for everyone. Why not let Max finish the last lap with everyone.
Lucas sobbing over Max, Dustin and Eddie saying goodbye, and El and Hopper reuniting all had me in tears. Easily the most emotionally invested in a show and it’s characters I’ve ever been and I want MORE
Yes! Every time I got a hold of myself, the next scene would tear me apart again. 😭
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@@itsjustbrandy4290 I would be interested in a video on what if Henry/001/Vecna got his way completely and remade the world into his image, what would it be like?
Right... OMG... LOVED IT!
I agree so much with this. This show brilliantly crafts scenes to give the best emotional payoffs and really pulls at the heart strings.
I hope Will and Max, as the two surviving victims of Vecna bond. We never got to see them really interact so far, but if she wakes, she has so much in common with Will now.
Damn I never thought of that. What about Nancy and El? Nancy is pretty experienced with the Upside Down at this point and she knew everything about Vecna as well as Eleven.
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Vecna is out there somewhere, his body was not found. He’s physically out there and not just in their minds. I think Season 5 will bring Will to the front again, and his connection to the upside down will be explored in depth.
will said he was alive but hurting
That wasn't hard to figure out at all, his body was gone and Will said he was hurt... lol.
How can anyone even think that he is dead I mean In his mere human form he wasn’t dead after struck by lightning lmao. How come he’ll die after a little attack with fire and gunshots
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CSI: upside down
Massive shoutout to the acting on this show. Millie Bobby Brown in the scene with Papa, and in the fight with Vecna. Sadie Sink all season. Caleb McLaughlin grieving for Max. Finn Wolfhard with his phenomenal monologue. Noah Schnapp making us suffer for him. Gaten Matarazzo, the feels my god. And well, David Harbour and Winona Ryder are David Harbour and Winona Ryder. Absolutely outstanding.
Not to mention Jamie!!! And Joseph too, RIP Eddie :'(
One up for Sadie. You'd expect it from Millie who had been a lead actress for a long time. Sadie has shown to be an incredibly talented and adaptable actress. Both girls have been amazing, the boy actors not as much...
My theory is that in order to close the gate they need to bring Max's conciousness back to her body. The gate need four pillars and without one it will close.
she would come back again for sure, Im agree with you, now she is with EL one of the main character of stranger things cast, and I dont thing her storie has ended already
I was thinking the same thing about the four deaths being the four pillars and with each of the pillars being broken the weaker the gate becomes and when one pillar is broken Vecna loses all gained from that person including their consciousness. With the finally breaking the last pillar and freeing Max's consciousness and allowing it to return to her body idk what'll happen but I'm sure the Duffers will make one banger of a final season.
Yeah I thought the reason the storm clouds were there is because max is in limbo if she does the upside down will merge. If she wakes it will close the gate
Yea all fun and games till Max dies of old age and the upside down comes back
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The duffer brothers said that the upside down being trapped in 1983, when Will first got pulled into the upside down, will be really important in s5. Vecna has a fascination with time, using his grand father clock. I think time will play a big factor in s5, giving us some sort of time travel aspect or the real world as it gets taken over by the upside down will be brought back to 1983. I really don't know but could be really cool if done right.
i have the same theory, i believe we get 'No way home' like rendition. Eleven makes time go back to before she opened up the first portal or something like that. basically she might sacrifice her relationship and friendships with everyone
@@saifahmedshariff7219 yeah it was never explained why clocks were constantly showing up this season. Like they briefly went into it but I believe that time plays a much bigger role then the showed us.
@@saifahmedshariff7219 I JUST SAID THIS TODAY
i agree
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I think "will" become evil because he like Mike. So he is little bit jealous of el and in next season he will help vecna 🙂 at last he understands his mistake and sacrifice himself.(will bahut important character tha 1st season mein aur 5th mein bhi raheyga
I enjoyed the small scene where Steve expresses his feelings to Nancy. Although it seems like they won’t be back in a relationship, it’s nice to see that Steve now loves her for how much she’s helped him change. Unlike season one, where he only really loved her for her appearance.
Why do you say they won't be back in a relationship? Their reunion has been hinted at throughout this season, with them constantly looking at each other, Steve revealing he fantasises about having kids with her and traveling, and the cherry on top was that awkward conversation between Nancy and Jonathan when it was clear that none of them really wanted to be together - so they will likely break up next season. I feel like all this alludes to Nancy and Steve getting back together.
@@princessxxramo steve deserves better than nancy.
I think they will end up back together because in the end Nancy and Jonathan seem to be walking on eggshells with each other and Jonathan lies to her about applying to college. Their relationship is pretty much doomed.
@@Ali-po9le That I agree with, but the show is hinting at them getting back together. I think they are also trying to redeem Nancy by having her jump in the water after Steve, and Eddie telling Steve that Nancy loves him from her actions.
The show hints things but shies away from fanservice. Why it was good she and steve broke up. Goes against stereotypes
I feel like they’re definitely going to read Max’s letters she wrote, maybe before the final battle
i'd forgotten about those
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And afterwards, when they win, she’ll wake up 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Thanks for the reminder
In the hospital scene, Lucas was reading the Talisman which might hint to the plot of Max in season 5.
It's about a telepathic/mind journey that a character undergoes
Ah nice!
Your probably right. The Duffer Bros love King and Always put hints the previous season to what gonna happen in the next
Definitely is. They just don’t put random books i there scenes , everything has a meaning
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It was an *actual* journey from the East coast to the West coast of the U.S. that the main character goes through, not a mind journey. He travels to another world (The Territories) to do this because you cover more distance in the other world. I've read the Talisman so many times my first copy fell apart and I had to get a new one. The obvious correlation is that both stories deal with crossing between dimensions. Might also be more of a callout to the fact that the Duffer Bros. are going to do an adaptation of the Talisman with Spielberg.
I have a feeling that Will will have great importance in season 5. Considering Vecna had used Will before, and he can still feel Vecna.
Will is ignored for the most part in S3 and S4. It'll be cool to see him get the spotlight
Watching season 1 for the first time was the best feeling in my life ngl. It was chilling back then when we didn't even know what a demogorgon was.
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Yes i got that too he knows more the fact that the upside down is stock to when will got yeeted into the upside down and all the baddies are from D&D (i think)
He knew about each of their inner strengths could it be that the upside down took what was in wills mind and used it to make the town as in the beginning when vecna first went there it was not the town that might have come into existence because of will so that would mean that his mind is connected to vecna's in some way.
woah that came pouring out of me lol
I think that Eddie hasn’t died, if anyone has noticed, no one is speaking about it or mourning about his death, even if he blended in so well with everyone. The 2 days later time skip, Nancy seems like nothing has really happened everyone is sort of happy - Crazy theory, I refuse to think Dustin would let Eddie die without putting up a fight. The Duffer brothers said that they are filming the next season back to back meaning, they will probably dedicate at least an episode to what happened during that 2 day time skip. I believe Dustin got the walkie-talkie reached out to Steve, Nancy and Robin, and they came to the rescue. They all tried to help him and got back from the upside down. They have probably found a place to hide him, since right now it’s more dangerous than ever for Eddie, as everyone assumed he has caused all that’s happening. That would explain why everyone is so calm about his death. Another thing we don’t see is how Eddie gives Dustin his necklace or even Dustin taking it from him. This can be explained because probably during that time skip. Eddie gave it to give the uncle some closure and not keep him worried. It would be dangerous if he knew he was still alive as he would be the first person everyone in Hawkins would go to for explanations. So it’s better that everyone thinks he is dead, and just like 11 in season 1 they bring him back 🥺💞 - if you made it here I love you 🥰
That's my secret hope too 😉I just couldn't get over the fact that the gang went on with their lives like Eddie's already forgotten 😭
@@Halyr07 that’s exactly my concern they all acted like it didn’t happen which makes me feel that maybe they know he is okay 🥺
He’s dead.
And Eddie never gave Dustin the necklace.
🥺🥺🥺I hope your right 😭😭
Stranger Things is about a bunch of normal small town folks finding themselves suddenly thrust into a government conspiracy and an inter-dimensional supernatural drama beyond anything they thought was possible. The TV series is a master class in nostalgia, it's a fantastic and entertaining story in it's own right, and everyone loved about genre films in the 80's and repackage it into a series that feels like what everyone wants to see now is extraordinary.
The characters on Stranger Things are a squad of normal children, high schoolers, and adults who are all pulled into a sort of Dungeons & Dragons drama brought to life. Each character is a unique individual with good and bad sides to them.
True < like in the cartoon dungeons and dragons they all had to leave after the win against the big boss like time travel
These are not ALL normal folks. The children are highly gifted and talented. And Hopper is way way above average as a small town Sherif.
Damn bruh how much they paying you
Dungeons and Dragons is mostly a combination of the worlds of Tolkien and Lovecraft. They manage to capture both themes so well. It's really impressive. The four Hobbits and their fellowship undertaking an impossible mission with the fate of the world in the balance. An odd assembly of people united through a mission and developing the deepest of friendships.
Then there are the tentacle monsters...
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I feel like the 4 victims of Vecna being the Four Horsemen is really close to what we had.
- Chrissy was the head cheerleader, in a relationship with the head athlete and popular boy, and Vecna taunted her with her mother, it's not unrealistic to think she had eating disorder, making her a fit for Famine.
- Fred was involved in a car accident which killed an other student, Vecna taunted her about him being a murderer, it's not the clearest one but he seems like a liar and a hypocrite to me, toxic behaviour could fit for Pestilence.
- Patrick was an athlete who died seconds before making it to Eddy's boat, considering the athletes were at war with the Hellfire Club, he fits War.
- Max was tormented and even felt guilty about Billy's death, she even thought she deserved to die, she fits Death.
In episode 1 they pretty clearly spelled out she was bulimic.
That’s a good thought
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the Duffer bros might be using the 4 victims of Vecna to the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. They're amazing at stuff like that. There was so many movies they played homage to throughout the series but even the last episide. Terminator, Halloween, Friday the 13th, Hellraiser just to name a few
Patrick was being beaten by his father
You accidentally mentioned Fred as "her” instead of "him”
I think Vecna's gonna come back as Max after her body's healed, so the creators can give way to Sadie's full potential as an actor, kinda like season 3 of teen wolf did for Dylan O'Brien
it could be, but I think that max is going to be a really important character to the main plot, I think she never escape from vecnas mind like she did in chapter 4 with running up the hill, so her conscious is with vecna and not with his body this is the reason she couldnt see or feel, some way its going to be two fights one in vecnas mind and this means they can save max and she could come back and then be a part of the team to defeat vecna face to face, also you have to see those estereggs duffers let in this chapter, lucas is reading the talisman to max, this book is from stephen king and to resum, explain that the main character to save her mother with cancer uses this talismas and recover her for complete, its more complicated but more or less, so max is going to be fine and the end AND THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING, they made the same as in season 3 with hop and joyce, joyce said to have a date with hop on Enzos on FRIDAY, then hop "dies", now Lucas said to max to have a date in Cinema ON FRIDAY, what happened? she "died" so at the end of the season, lucas and max and also hop and joyce are going to have their happy ending.
@@ayalachris96 wow! that makes a lot of sense actually
@@ayalachris96 holy crap that actually makes the most sense out of everything ive seen yet somehow LOL
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@@ayalachris96 What do you think of Vecna as a villain? He is twisted but I rather they keep him pure evil, than the generic and cliche "I am going to destroy the world because it sucks, and remake it into my own image" backstory and motive. We know that most likely isnt going to happen, I rather they kept Vecna sadistic and pure evil motivation wise. And since this is a 80's tribute show, 80's definitely had villains who were cruel for the sake of it.
There were many scenes and pieces of dialogue that caught my attention and seem like clues. Lucas reading The Talisman, Dustin making comments about how water is vital to life, Brenner talking about Eleven needing to fly, and the weird skateboard memory in a California wash that didn't really go anywhere. I think we'll see connections to all of this in Season 5.
Yea that California scene is big. It didn’t make sense to me unless they moved from cali to Hawkins.
I think it’s a memory of max and her brother. Her most favorite moment with him. Finding that memory can bring max back
The Duffer Brothers are also developing a Netflix show based on the book the talisman
Wouldn't be surprised to see as part of the S5 finale, scenes which describe the exact description of the boys defeating the multi-headed Thesselhydra in their S1 finale D&D campaign!
In S3 E1 when Dustin is pranked with the self-moving toys, we see a red dragon spitting out fireballs & an army of monsters, as well as army tankers, all matching Nancy's vision.
I feel all the other experimental children from Hawkins lab will play a part in S5 climax..as Henry mentioned earlier to El ..they didn't die and that they were all in his mind...so somehow they all will help El in giving their power to match vecna's strength and defeat him in the void world kinda thing
its honestly to late for that, we can at best expect number 8 to come back, but the theory of the other super powered kids even the ones we know from the comics would just mess up with the set up of the supposedly final season, if they include them in any way it would just be filler, since the cast is already big enough
Yeah they fought mind to mind maybe this will be the physical final fight.
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Ooh cool idea. Kind of reminds me a little of Dr. sleep
Or help vecna. Besides, vecna is not the kind to await permissions
I think Will being in Hawkins is dangerous. He was safe when they moved which probably prevented him from being one of the 4 that got sacrificed. If Will is indeed harboring a secret, then he won’t be safe in season 5. Since Max figured out how to move around in her memories, maybe that’s where she was at the end. Wanting to be in a happy place.
Yah Will is fuckd IMO. He’s already struggling to live irl. May be they’ll pull a Pirates of the Caribbean “there always has to be a captain” twist where Vecna is killed, but someone needs to take charge of Upside Downs hive mind, and it will be Will, because he’s too far gone.
@@TheWefikus , im hoping Will could pull out of this. i wonder if he'd have to sacrifice hisself for the greater good?
This is going to be another long one, but here I go:
There's this DnD character, Kas who "sacrificed himself to Vecna to become a half-human, half-vampire. He was Vecna’s trusted soldier, but after years and years of imprisonment; he broke his trust and waged a war against his master and finally killed him"
Eddie technically 'sacrificed' himself to Vecna (everything there, including the bats are Vecna, and he sacrificed himself to them to save Dustin).
He was bitten to death by bats, pretty vampire like.
There's going to be a time jump next season from 1983 to the 90s so 'years and years of imprisonment' fits.
It'd make sense Vecna would want a way to get close to El and and have intel maybe, like Thanos used the 2012 Nebula in Endgame (making Eddie his puppet. He's got two tattoos: bats and a Master of Puppets one. So. If the bats was clearly foreshadowing his death, is the other one just foreshadowing the song or do they just want us to assume that?)
Then Dustin can get through to him, and _Eddie_ can kill Vecna (or have an integral role, since obvs El is probably going to get to end all this not the new guy. Maybe it'll come down to Vecna only being able to be killed by something made of Upsidedown...ness. Which Eddie would be if he resurrected him.
Also Vecna might now want someone there if he goes into anymore Tentacle Trances, and what better way to make sure that person doesn't lose a fight against the kids than if its a person they wouldn't fight?
They just made him so sweet, I could see that as a set up for a twist. Plus come on, the Dungon Master, leader of the Hellfire DnD club ending up as a 'DnD character.' And it WAS too obvious to kill him, so maybe they didn't. Maybe its a bait and switch, make us think its another Bob but its not. We're just all accepting it because they do usually kill the new person.
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And nobody is dead for sure in Stranger Things unless they have a funeral.
Duffer Brothers didn’t sign Joseph on for season 5.
No matter what happens, this is MY ending now. This is/ would be epic
minor thing i noticed, it was oddly specific when they referenced water in the last part of the finale. dustin handing out water and calling it out "vital to all forms of life" and nancy when she said how the water still works in the cabin. wonder if water will be a focal point in the final season.
I wonder if the resolution for Max is unclear because Sadie's career is really taking off. This gives the Duffer Brothers some flexibility depending on her availability, cost and so on. A bit of the real world intruding on Hawkins!
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“Theory Time” 😆
My Theory: The Duffer Brothers will deliver a wholly satisfying ending to their epic story, and we will all be re-watching
‘Stranger Things’ eternally 🙏✨
✨🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞✨
I feel like it's kinda the other way around; Max is trapped inside of Vecna and the Mindflayer. With them saying that he "absorbs" his victims, and him retreating back into the mindflayer with Max along for the ride, it sets up the battle with the Mindflayer in season 5, with them using Max to help.
This show always has everyone helping in some capacity to win, and if you remove any single part, then their plan(s) would have failed. This terrible thing happening to Max will eventually turn out to be instrumental in the Mindflayer's death, and I think it's going to be that she is hiding inside it.
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The mind flayer isn't it's own conscious being. It's just something Henry used to bend the upside down to his will and shape it. It gives all the creatures the hive mind but it's his mind.
Yeah, Max is stuck with Vecna in his hellscape. How terrifying! Makes her half death more sad than a real death.
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About Max: If she hadn’t been revived wouldn’t the destruction kept going? Like didn’t it stop when she wasn’t dead anymore?
About Vecna: no way is he in Max’s mind-why would he be? He lives in the UD and needs to heal, physically. If he goes to hind in a mind he’s leaving himself open to another attack by Shotgun Nancy (I would totally watch a show about Nancy roaming the UD countryside with a million guns hunting Vecna and killing demo-wildlife)
About Dustin: Dustin won’t be a victim because of Eddie’s death and the trauma-and it’s because we see him handle the trauma in a healthy way, by talking with Mr. Munson. Vecna’s victims were all hiding their trauma, but Dustin’s always worn his heart on his sleeve. He could scare Dustin with the scary movie stuff, but wouldn’t have those bad thoughts he needs for the psychic connection.
The underworld is already taking over the normal side as seen at the end of the last episode so 001 can take over max
The particles probably bring Vecna back to life like they did to the Gorgans and the Dogs in the Russian prison tubes. If Vecna is using Eleven as his power source I hope she dies but Will will probably be the sacrifice somehow.
i think will might be the villain or the sacrifice hes kind of like the vessel in a way after El closed the gate in season 2 it was will her carried that last part of the mind flayer with hims so i think they might have to kill him off at some point because hes kind of connected to the upside down .. if that makes sense idk of course is just a theory please reply of you think the same or otherwise its so interesting to hear peoples theories
@@timofy2233 "No Loose Ends."
I don't think El will die because they did this whole story line of getting Hopper back , and her whole love story with Mike it just wouldn't make sense to then kill her off. I believe it will be Will that dies in season 5 sadly, they've done alot of foreshadowing on Will as kinda being the misfortunate one who never quite gets what he deserves.
You hope el dies?!
@@sarahnicol9341 Hopper would lose his daughter a second time 😔
I like the idea of Vecna hiding within Max's mind, recovering and waiting. Would be neat to see her awaken at the start of Season 5. We will have to wait and see!
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The final episode was called "The Piggyback". It was most certainly, beyond a doubt, a double entendre. Eleven "piggybacked" into Max's mind, but so did Vecna. He's going to use her, maybe not like he used Will or Billy with full blown mind control but I do believe Max will serve symbolically as the Eye of Vecna from D&D lore.
Also, how much D&D lore they choose to adapt over to Stranger Things remains to be seen but every good lich has a phylactery. That phylactery could be the Mind Flayer but there is no emotional weight behind that and I believe a main character coming to the realization that they need to sacrifice their self to save their friends is truly a weighty and sad ending. Sorry Will, you need to die. :(
I also believe we will see a new Upside Down beast, as Nancy described after Vecna showed her; "A giant creature with a gaping mouth". I think that bit is important. Vecna wanted to open a portal large enough for this massive beast to come through. I'm hoping it is an old god type beast, the origin of One's and Eleven's powers.
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They likely will as the whole series is based on D&D.
good theory
One of my biggest questions is the Russia connection. Why is Russia so involved with the upside down ? Is this just coincidence, due to the portal experiments, that a portal to Russia was opened ? I feel like the Russia connection is overlooked big time in the fandom.
I don't think the Russia connection is going to be fully explained on the show. Maybe as a spin-off?
80s = Cold War = Russia vs USA
@@seth8629 It doesn't need to be. Once we know USA vs Russia in the Cold War is what that timeframe was about, its easier to theorize that each country was looking for a leverage against each other
It was the eighties =Cold war
They just forced it into the series because hating Russia is "in" again...
Paul, your coverage of this season’s Stranger Things, Umbrella Academy and the Boys is a blast! Although we’re taking each episode in slowly at my house versus bingeing, I count on you to deliver big theory flavor and fun along the way. Thanks, mate!
Thanks so much 🙌 cheers for checking out all the vids
@@heavyspoilers This has been a great summer for television, props to you for connecting to it all
Guys, remember in the end of Season 1 when the kids play DnD, and arguing that the campain was nonsense ? They mentioned a knight, a princess, and a cave with mysterious flowers. Well, what if Hopper is the knight, Joyce the princess, the cave is the library and the flowers are vecna's nerves spreaded accross the upside down version of Hawkins ? That would explain why the center of the giant Gate is located at the library. Something in Season 1 must have happened when will was stick in that place and connected to the plants. Since Will Can still feel the stranger things happening about the upside down, he is probably connected somehow. This season brought many psychologic elements, so I believe that vecna set 1983 to upside down's Hawkins clock based on Will's trauma about being kidnapped and all the stuff he endured during season 1. That would give us another piggyback arc in Season 5, about the Gang heading to the library to destroy whatever is causing this mess since the beggining. Hopper and Joyce dating together, Hopper being rescued by Joyce, the Sword almost appearing like a deus ex machina, Hopper fighting the DemoG with it, just make me believe that it was planned since Season 1. In Season 1 episode 5, 11 is spying a russian in her mind and just before the russian disapear, we can hear a ticking things that Can hint for Vecna.
The duffer brothers said that they originaly planned to kill 11, But decided near the end of production they decided to kept her. I think that they add the shot were they mentioned the knight, the princess, the cave and the flowers in a not so distant Time with the scene hinting that 11 is alive ( Hopper putting eggo in a box ). Then they add the ticking sound in post prod. Then Season 2 ...
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Eleven's Coca Cola can be only challenged by Vecna's Pepsi 😂🤣
LOOOOOOOOOL
@@heavyspoilers 😂😂😂
I read somewhere that Eddie probably isn't dead, that he was just knocked out by bat poison and that he'll manage to stay alive on the upside down to help from the inside on the next season. I can't remember where I read it, but man I really hope it's true :(
It's bullshit.
Look up Kas from D&D! Definitely an awesome idea
@@justinray5585 It's bullshit.
@@sidnew2739 it’s just a theory no need to be rude
@@mylee4673 It's bullshit.
Love these TT !
Do you think something can come from the fact they left Eddie's body in the upside down? I forget who else's physical body is there besides barb. But maybe Vecna could use their dead bodies like puppets?
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I had had the same thought, except Max instead of Eddie. She might just be braindead, and her "coming back to live" just as a puppet of Vecna or the Mindflayer would have an effect on the group
I mean if Eleven has the power to bring Max back to life, imagine the full power of Vecna to bring Eddie back to life (considering he wasn't used as one of the 4 killings to open the gates cause he died in the upsidedown) to use him for his future plans in season 5 👀
In DND Vecna has a right hand man named Kas. Kas is a vampire, and Eddie died by bats...
Loved Season 4. Could not believe how engaging it was with hour long episodes. I predict rather than Vecna being in Max's body, Max is trapped with Vecna somewhere. Either in the upside down, or his mind scape, or something. Maybe in season 5 he'll control her and she'll be somewhat of a new baddie, maybe something similar to what he did with will.
Literally just finished volume 2, and I go on CZcams and see this vid lol
Smashing the like for this man excellent video
You are so hilarious dude. Thank you for your videos. Love your theories and the depth of your analysis.
The coca bottle scene is just a look back to season 3 when Max and El use the same coke bottle in a sleep over scene
I think we're going to find that Vecna is also only a puppet, and that the Mind Flayer is the real puppet master. I agree about Dustin, and I can see Vecna appearing to him as Eddie to torment him.
Love the vids bro
Another great vid man keep it up
If we remember, Max learned how to hide inside her happy memories. So when Eleven entered Max's mind, she found all darkness. Right now, Max is afraid. So her hiding within a happy memory, she feels like it's the safest way to stay alive but that's just my "Theory Time".
I think Vecna's consciousness was transfered to Max's mind. When El brought her back, he came back too. So El is responsible for Vecna again.
Love your vids!
Thank you
You are so funny! Thanks for the video
Love is Vecna's kryptonite.
He never understood love. In the context of what it actually means. He only has known hate, disdaine, and destruction.
When Max was almost killed the first time, it wasn't Kate Bush alone that saved her. It was her memories and love she shared with her friends.
Eleven defeated Henry the first time with the memory of her birth and her mother's love.
Before that, Henry influenced Eleven to use Hate and Anger like he did to basically power up. I believe she actually learned her killer instinct from him. Ex: She may have gotten that "head-tilt" when snapping someone's neck method from him. We see her do this in season 1.
He was trying to mold her into, I guess, a companion of sorts. She reminded him of himself. But that was because of her being bullied, and their powers being so similar. He wanted her to share his ideology of humanity as a virus (makes me think of Agent Smith from the Matrix).
However, El refused when she saw what he has done to EVERYONE! He didn't just kill El's and his tormentors. He killed all the innocent people there too.
El is a Killer, but She's not a Murderer.
Vecna is a cold-blooded psychopath who thrives on Nihilism. But that's not El.
She did "kill" Henry (so she thought). Which in her mind at the time was the first person she killed. So she knew she could do it in order for protection and survival IF NEEDED.
Even Kali (008) influenced El to use her anger to get stronger and channel her power. This was of course in order to track down and kill the Hawkins Lab workers. Again, El refused to kill out of malice.
However, during the Nina Project and flashbacks, Papa told her what the ramifications of anger and hate were. He knew how dangerous Henry was and is, based on his studies of him. Dr. Brenner did at least understand that love was going to be the key.
Mike finally telling El that he loves her is what made her gain the strength in order to overpowering Vecna again.
Love is definitely going to be what saves everyone. That's the key to defeating him.
Unfortunately... A sacrifice is probably going to be made.
There will be blood.
If this theory rings true, then “Running Up That Hill” was telling us all along Max was gonna switch places (so to speak) with Vecna.
I think that song was just meaning how Max wished she would switch places with Billy so he wouldn’t be the one dying
Such a good vid !!
You are the goat brother🤘🏼 gotta get you on my show one day man
I don’t think Max or Vecna are in Max’s mind. When Eleven went into her mind there was nothing there and she couldn’t find Max. Her consciousness is probably with Vecna wherever he is now.
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I just assumed she was braindead or something and that her body would be used as a vessel of sorts in the next season, filling a role similar to Will in season 2
Yeah I agree with you. I feel like if they're going to get Max back, they'll have to reach into Vecna's mind (since he subsumes the minds of others) and separate Max's mind from his. It would only work for her since she actually has a body to go back to, unlike the rest of the victims. I wonder if it could be possible for Eleven to reach into his mind through Will's since they're still connected.
I feel like you’re right Paul, especially since Dustin was so close to Eddie (arguably becoming a “Steve” type figure which was the complete opposite to Steve).
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Thanks for this, answers most of my questions.
Thanks for the info
I watched all 4 seasons in 2 weeks. Amazing.
I think in keeping with the tribute to the 80's movies they will not kill off a main character. If there was one thing you could depend on was "oh they won't die, they are a main character". I know the narrative has changed but I would love to see them echo that formula because I feel as though we have watched them all grow and would hate to see any of them die
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I disagree, after 4 seasons, why should I care for them in season 5, knowing nobody will die? It’s get tiring when nobody dies/stays dead, apart from supporting cast. They’re playing it too safe for my taste. I need stakes.
THIS IS AMAZING💗💗
Love your explanation of the events of Stranger Things...Thank you
I hope they don’t go this route because of nostalgia but I have a feeling that within the time jump of Hawkins fighting with the monsters of the upside down they have to time travel to prevent this happening. Duffer brothers doing time travel reference as back to the future
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I love the show but lets face it the time element is very far from realistic. Also I can understand the other residents of Hawkins being gullible and staying but certainly the families of the kids who knew what had actually been going on should have gotten the hell out.
I think max is hiding in her memory….the skating memory… it was not necessary to show us that and it felt a little out of place and yet they showed it to us… so I think she is hiding from Vecna in that memory…also in the end of season 2 the mindflayer was shown in the upside down during the snow ball dance….which means vecna knew about that memory and hence it was easier to find her but vecna does not know about max’s skating memory….not sure if its possible…its just a theory….and maybe be in the next season el will have to go find her and I think max definitely will know something about vecna that will help the gang to fight him…
In the dungeons and Dragons cartoon the Venger character does the same as Vecna and seeks to own and intergate his victims powers. He is refered to as 'the many faces of evil' as he comes in different guises of people snd monsters. He is also in charge of a shadow creature who aids him so it was not a surprise that the Duffer Bros borrowed and put their spin on this if you remember the 80's cartoon.
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The thumbnail….. I guess this is the Heavy Spoilers show 😂😂😂
Any thoughts on Vecna/Henry becoming “more human” as he monologued Eleven and then ran the ritual in Max? First his hand, second the top of his head became more pale and less monstrous
I think that the element of "humanity" within One/Henry/Vecna is going to be key to Eleven defeating him in Season 5. You can see that when Papa is trying to tell Eleven that he wasn't a monster but a "deeply troubled person" who he was trying to help and that Eleven tries to get through to him during their Mind Fight by telling him he "doesn't have to do this". Dr. Brenner spends quite a bit of time trying to teach Eleven that people are not "superheros" or "monsters"-- ("the stuff of fairytales" as he puts it) Not sure if he'll get a redemption moment like some of their other characters (Billy, or the epic journey that Steve has gone on) but it will play a factor along with the power of love over hatred, which is referenced a few times by the church at the end (spraypainted on the bedsheet outside) and even the bible verse Jason uses when he's trying to get the town riled up when they were looking for Eddie (earlier in the season).
I really want Eddie to be resurrected as a friendly Zombie, so he can stay alive in the Upside Down.
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Friendly zombie like in Hocus Pocus?
@@MarshallTheArtist Exactly, either Eleven can use her powers or the Red Lightning could do something.
Seongchan? Haha
I mean if Eleven has the power to bring Max back to life, imagine the full power of Vecna to bring Eddie back to life (considering he wasn't used as one of the 4 killings to open the gates cause he died in the upsidedown) to use him for his future plans in season 5 👀
The super Dave clip from Norm Macdonald live… subscribed.
Wow, you are so God damn good to us Paul.
This season was definitely the best thus far. Really excited to see where they take it from here!
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@Isaiah Bhatti, what are your thoughts on Vecna as a villain?
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 i really liked him compared to the ones we got previously. at least he had a personality 😹
I believe Will is a key member for the upcoming fight due to his mental link to Vecna and I would love to see him playing a big role on season 5, as he didn't do that much on season 4, although he pointed out a lot of important things on the few screen time he had. Mental fight with 11, Will and Max against Vecna on Max's mind? I have the theory it will happen, but who knows.
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I think "will" become evil because he like Mike. So he is little bit jealous of el and in next season he will help vecna 🙂 at last he understands his mistake and sacrifice himself.(will bahut important character tha 1st season mein aur 5th mein bhi raheyga
Great insights
Awesome, once again. We truly aren’t worthy!
I think eventually El will defeat Vecna by destroying him and replacing him as the ruler of the upside-down. It seems like the upside-down is formed by Vecna's will so hopefully it will be less of a nightmare with El in control.
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I think a time skip is confirmed for S5 based on leaked casting calls. I’d like the time jump to show the team all together and planning their last stand with the Upside Down/Vecna. I can see Eleven bringing Max back, and her working like Oracle did for Batman. I can also see Max returning with powers of her own now. So many possibilities. One thing I’d LOVE is for the Duffer Brothers to bring back all of the upside downs victims across all seasons. I want Barb back, in some capacity
If they time jump then max will be in a coma for over a year.
idk how they’re gonna time jump with a giant portal to the upside down in the middle and f hawkins. are they just gonna live with that for 3 years and pretend it’s normal?
@@NatesHandlebars im sure they can logically write in the time jump somehow
You losers got to give up barb. She wasn't good or interesting
You are too bloody good for us
I think Vecna's probably gonna go after Max again----after she gets better
There’s no need for that. He’s already accomplished what he wanted.
He will probably wait to heal and then send his army and then the fight begins.
Love the content sir! Keep it up!
thank yhou
I don’t know how it will go down in S5 but I would like to give my two cents on how it might end. I think somehow Vecna exploited the world of Upside Down by using its powers to his own advantage - creating the mind flayer, controlling the Demogorgons and the other creatures, building on the hive mind etc. When Henry / Vecna / One is telling Eleven about his journey through Upside Down, you can see a Demogorgon just minding it’s way, not looking or acting hostile necessarily. I could be wrong about this but I think our heroes will somehow break that bond Vecna has with Upside Down and leave him to its mercy in the end. Vecna will be torn apart by the original inhabitants of Upside Down, his despotic ideology consumed by the apex predator he helped form and create.
I had this same theory as well as the one where 001 still got Max’s mind and that’s how he was able to re-open the gate after El brought Max back to life.
Either way this is starting to lean on the Matrix Reloaded / Revolutions plot line
I think there’s some major foreshadowing that the next season may introduce vampires as a theme with 80s references to the lost boys. I know I just sound like someone who didn’t want Eddie to die but I honestly think if we explore the origin story of Vecna, he is killed by Kas. And one person who could become Kas is Eddie as he died by Bat bites. Ironically, there’s tattoos of Bats on Eddies arm too.
Similar to the Lost Boys, you often see Missing people posters all over town which is what we see at the end S4vol2 and also posters that say Blood donations. I think it’s all intentional to suggest that these may be the themes of Season 5.
Okay that's one big theory of Eddie being alive thats actually pretty good.
how come in season 1 the demi gorgon could just come through the walls between dimensions with ease? (for example in Joyce's house it just straight up birthed itself out of the wall) but then in later seasons vecnar needs to claim a life to make a gate? I don't remember there ever being an explanation for this
Gates were open for the Demigorgon. Vecna had to open his own gates. Takes power.
@@stonecoldsteez when was this explained in the show? and how come loads of demigorogons dont just come through the walls lol
@@affelstan In season 1, El opened a gate for the demogorgon. Therefore it had the power to travel between the dimensions in some capacity. It is als explained in season 4 that Vecna found a way to create the hive mind / mindslayer and bind the upside down and all its creatures to himself and his will. The demogorgans do whatever he wants them to do. Maybe them coming through the walls is not his plan right now or he cannot really give any orders to his monsters because he is still recovering at the moment.
We see his influence growing throughout the seasons and his plan taking on a bigger scale. The Duffers also said the lore of the Upside Down will be a big part of Season 5, so I guess there is still a lot for us to find out about how the mechanics work.
theory time vids are my favs of yours need a boys s3 theory vid for black Nori and how it will end they have gone a very different way with his character and I love it it's a lot better than the comics in some ways
I might have got to see it early 👀
First I think this season was the best. Just the cinematography also reached level 12! ;)
Now I also think that Vecna will use Max' body as a vessel but I think that Max is truely gone. This will gives an awesome challenge to the talented Sadie Sink but as vecna trying to be max for a while. I also think that Will will sacrifice himself in the grand finale. The moment when Mike is reunited with Eleven is very interesting: we see them embracing and one step behind, just in the middle is a blurry Will. Between his connection to the Upside-Down and his feelings for Mike he's like a ghost. And he will probably be the ultimate hero of season 5, as the boy who never truely returned... :(
I thought I was having a stroke when he said “little Nina and the boys”. I was like did I click on the wrong video I thought this was Stranger Things?!
I LOVE the idea of Vecna being in Max! Hadn’t thought of this before. Would be awesome to see Sadie act that as well. And reminds me of the line “Sometimes dead is better” from Pet Sematary. Chills😮
Well, vecna is definitely not in her rn. Maybe later when they think there bringing her consciousness in they actually being his in to her or something. Idk that’s just a theory.
I dont, Max has been through enough lol poor girl
I mean if Eleven has the power to bring Max back to life, imagine the full power of Vecna to bring Eddie back to life (considering he wasn't used as one of the 4 killings to open the gates cause he died in the upsidedown) to use him for his future plans in season 5 👀
Hey Mr Spoilers sir, may i ask u a question? Do u only review things that ur a fan of or do u review popular things for content or coz u know ur gonna get views? Just curious 🙂
2022 has really raised the bar for TV shows,
'Stranger Things'
'From'
'The Boys'
'Severance'
And a bunch more, even better when you realise we're only halfway through the year,
Also I want to thank you for all the hard work you put into your video's, especially considering how many things you've covered the last week alone xx
umbrella academy
@@saifahmedshariff7219 ikr, I'm halfway through it at the moment, the Kugelblitz has just expanded x
@@saifahmedshariff7219 it was brilliant x
The duffed brothers confirmed there will be a time skip for season 5, So they will be living in mist and lava, which will be ineresting to see what happens. Maybe during the years max will be free from her coma, or perhaps vecna will control her. Either way i cant wait!
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How did WiLL knew vecna's name when they were in pizza shop??
Great Theories
This show has blown my mind. Absolute rollercoaster ride of emotions and brilliant
I would like to see some type of dream walking, like dream warriors nightmare on elm street style. 11 uses her powers for them all to enter someone's mind.
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My theory is Eddie didn't need to die because there was no immediate danger from the bats for the rest of the mission, but the Duffer brothers didn't have any other ideas 🙃🙃
In seriousness Will is gonna play a major role in the final season and I will be thrilled.
I just hope he loses that haircut 😆
Seriously this. It frustrated me. Like why did he even go back. It didn't achieve anything and they would have been safe otherwise lol. Killed off one of their strongest actors by far
@@compass2201 I knew it'd likely be him but it made zero sense and had reduced impact cause of it
I think the idea is that if they just kept hiding the bats would come back to the house when Vecna called them, hence putting the rest at risk of completing the plan.
Eddie saved Hawkins by preventing the bats from going to the real world. He also bought the others time
an amazing finale, and, as usual, a great explanation of the possibilities
So off what you've said, I do think Max is somehow trapped within Vecna, but where you described it like Vecna holding her hostage. I think it'll be more like she's just trapped, like Vecna knows he has her, cause he killed her but won't use it as a hostage chip. I do also think his body is alive, Nancy described a new kind of monster from her vision, which did play out like Vecna said, at least for the earthquake (more on this later), so I think this new thing is his final step, like you said merging more completely with the mind flayer, especially now as he'll need it for like life support.
As for next season and him killing the group, I think that's not gonna happen, he was doing those kills to make the rips to create the earthquake, which like it's a huge fucking portal to the upside-down, it's wild to me how calm those people in Hawkins are, during the merge scene once it all hits, you can see tentacles erupt on to both sides of the split, and the flesh membrane closes up the rift, why is everyone so calm, like it's normal for earthquake rifts to have demon skin chilling? Come on. But back to Vecna, I think his killing like that won't happen again, the connection felt like it was more needed for the breach aspect not the killing aspect. Now that there is the most massive gate in history. I think he's going to hide, amass strength and then invade Hawkins. No need for silly mind games, he's coming to win now.
But I do also think there's a chance that Vecna will have access to Max's body, until they kill him and she's freed, I don't think it'll be a battle, just like his other kills get to rest and Max will just shoop back into her own body, but until then it's just like a car with thr keys left in it, so they'll think Max is back, but she'll be evil and maybe Will will know cause his connection but they won't believe him at first?
And for the clouds I don't think that was the mind flayer, I just think it's more proof the upside-down is bleeding through, it's atmosphere is those storm clouds and red lighting, like our gang is way to chill, its super obvious it's not an earthquake, like Vecna is sitting here being like "got your fucking post office, ya chumps!" No, it's a huge breach. I honestly think since I think they said there's gonna be a time jump, we may even start at a point where Hawkins fell, and Vecna already invaded.
I just hope we get it a bit sooner this time, I don't want to wait 3 years