Did Henry VII Speak Welsh? | (1485-1509)
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2023
- Henry VII. Victor of Bosworth. Vanquisher of the House of York. Hero of the Lancastrians. Father of the Tudor Dynasty. Welshman. Welshspeaker? In this video we investigate whether Henry VII spoke Welsh or not. Big thank you to Angharad for their help with reading out the Welsh poem towards the end of the video. Check out more by Angharad with the links below:
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Hi all! Thanks for watching today's video - I hope you enjoy watching it as I enjoyed researching and making it! Want more on historical minority languages, the Tudors, and videos on location? Let me know!
Anything about Cumbrian history would be very interesting.
4:33 "Divers" is an old spelling of "diverse", with the meaning "many". Presumably it wasn't pronounced with the z-sound at the end (as is "divers" the plural of "diver").
Although it isn’t a sign of Henry’s Welsh language abilities, something we learnt in school in Wales is that Henry was hailed as “Y Mab Darogan” by the Welsh, which translates to “The Son of Prophecy”, which is the coolest title I think anyone can be bestowed with haha
Dyma pam dwi'n hoffi Hilbert. Mae o'n edrych ar holl hanes Prydaid, nid hanes Lloegr yn unig.
This is why I like Hilbert. He actually looks at all of Britain's history, not just England's.
Many thanks for your comment and great to see some written in Welsh! Always rep those smaller languages!
Fy hefyd, mae e’n wych!
Me too, he’s great!
Ardderchog !
@@historywithhilbert146 Not that small and by far the biggest of all the Celtic languages.
As the Henry's family were Welsh, there is a good chance their household would have had Welsh retainers, grooms etc and maybe even welsh speaking nursemaids.
The fact the Tudurs spent time in Brittany where Breton and welsh could be mutually understood to some degree.
As a side note; it was your Henry VII videos that got me to subscribe to the channel!
I recently read that having spent so much of his life in France he was happier speaking French don't know if it's true or false. But I do know that French was still considered the language of the upper classes and they still wrote official papers in French. One example would be the report from the Battle of Flodden when we cannot trace the precise course of the action because there are two possible interpretations of French words used.
Yes that's quite likely there were people in his social circles who were (also) Welsh speakers, though it's very hard to say if he managed to pick any of the language up and to what degree he did that. Thanks for supporting the channel for so long!
@@freebeerfordworkers : BIG shock or suprise...
the house of plantagenet had FRENCH ANCESTERY, MARRIED FRENCH PRINCESS FOR GENERATIONS and widely spoke french until the period of Edward III...
Queen Ann Neville of warwick castle , is widely considered the first english born queen consort of england in 499 years, since anglo saxon period,
as queen elizabeth woodville was born in england but her mother was Jacqueta of Luxembourg,,,dowager duchess of bedford, anything but english...
most are unware, of the history of the house of tudor, from penmynydd or head of the hill... let alone their many welsh noblity relatives,
the *griffiths of penrhyn, the rice of dinefwr castle and house are some, those nobles often married anglo-norman familes and widely spoke latin, french and were catholic for generations...
of course they spoke welsh and had welsh servants... , but various laws were enacted by richard II against the welsh...
It all depends what part of Brittany we're talking about. Traditionally the language of Upper Brittany (Haute Bretagne) is not Breton, but Gallo, which is closely aligned to French and westerly dialects of Norman-French.
Small point, only South Pembrokeshire is known as "Little England beyond Wales." The rest of South Wales back then would have been extremely Welsh-speaking apart from this small Anglicised area. Even today, South Pembrokeshire has comparatively few Welsh speakers but it's surrounded by some of the Welsh language's biggest strongholds.
You are right, and furthermore, Harri's mother was English. OTOH, his wetnurse did have an ethnically Welsh name. From the age if 5, Harri was at Raglan.
Remember Harri also spent 14 years in Brittany, then independent. As Breton is a sister language of Welsh, I do hope Harri could speak Welsh for his own sake so he could fit in easier in Brittany. He did manage to recruit Welshmen in Pembrokeshire before Bosworth.
I rather doubt that (what became) eastern Monmouthshire was Welsh speaking, what with so few Welsh place or street names in the present day.
You're wrong. Monmouthshire's towns and villages had Welsh versions of their current English names. The extent of Monmouthshire's thoroughgoing Welshness in language, as late as the eighteenth century, may be seen in this document. www.hanesplaidcymru.org/filebase/llyfrynnau/1958%20History%20of%20Gwent.pdf
@@mjp8648No , Gwent- or what would later be called Monmouthshire _was_ Welsh speaking. Even parts of what's now western Hereford was still Welsh-speaking up until the early 20th century
Welsh heritage of the Tudors is, for me, the most interesting aspect of this dynasty. Also, nice unexpected vlog part.
Edit: and cool Welsh poetry!
Video idea: Did Jagiellonians speak Lithuanian?
Good video idea!
@@historywithhilbert146 Thanks!
Robert I. Frost describing the talks between Władysław Jagiełło (Jogaila), Vytautas and Sigismund of Luxemburg during the summit of Lutsk in 1429, includes this little detail: "Vytautas then spoke to his cousin in Lithuanian, which Sigismund did not understand - discussions were being conducted in Ruthenian, which he did" (The Oxford History of Poland-Lithuania, Volume 1, p. 145).
Supposedly, Alexander Jagiellon was the last dynasty member known to speak or at least understand Lithuanian.
I was researching Henry VII when this video was posted
As a Welshman this was a very interesting video, especially as Henry VII is my favourite monarch (I’m biased).
However, Hilberts Welsh accent does constituent a war crime in many ways 🤣🤣
Don't be too harsh. I'm Welsh, from the South, and learning Dutch. I'm really good at pronouncing French but I get a sore throat after an hour's practice! He sounds like a Gog, which isn't his fault lol!
🏴🇳🇱
Glad you enjoyed the video, and please refer any further compliments to the Hague where a hefty dossier against me and my accent attempts is being compiled ;)
@@historywithhilbert146 I hope they still offer the death sentence as this would be the only appopriate punishment for such a heinous offence?
@@historywithhilbert146 You did pretty well in this video, fair play. Remember that Welsh 'u' sounds like English 'ee', so 'Ddu' sounds like 'thee'. And that 'dd' is a voiced 'th' (as pronounced in 'this', not in the unvoiced 'thin'), so Dafydd = sounds like davith (as long as you remember to voice the 'th').
@@drychaf But failed with Cadwaladr pronouncing the single d as th instead of d. and Ch also as th instead of K with a rolling inflection. Adding on to your explanation with some stuff of my own.
@historywithhilbert146 Hilbert little guide for ya since you seem to struggle sometimes (entirely as help not as satire) phonetics (also apologies out of order):
dd = thuh
d = duh
w = u - uh sound or oh sound or w - wuh - u when with a circumflex ^ in older and some modern texts
f = vuh
Ll = Thluh
y - i or u - i when with a circumflex ^ in older texts
C = Kuh
Ch = K with rolling inflection.
G = Guh
L = Luh
A - Ah
B - Buh
H- Huh
T - Tuh
M - Muh
N- Nuh
Ng - Nuh
P - Puh
R - Ruh
Rh - Ruh with rolling inflection sounds like Hrih as is Rhiannon, Rhufoniog etc.
u - ee as in eek!
He spoke english in the first series of Blackadder and that is obviously historical canon so I think we can safely declare the case closed.
Great stuff. I loved the video of the site
Glad you enjoyed it!
I come from a town in NW England that is historically part of Lancashire, officially called Lancaster. When I was very young my grandfather told me we were the original Welsh, which at the time I found very confusing, but now less so. Lancaster and York were and largely still are among the rank and file, part of the Brittonic tribes of Khumry who would have spoken a dialect of the Brittonic language somewhat preserved in modern day North Wales. St George didn't slay the Welsh/Brittonic dragon until Edward 3, so it's possible Henry VII is enacting some sort of restoration? Edward and Henry weren't directly related I believe. Also its interesting that a year after Edward made St George patron saint of England 1350, Lancaster became a Duchy whose lands are held separate from other Crown Lands, much like Cornwall, and is to this day a county Palatine, ie its own Kingdom.
Yes, he was likely referring to the period when the area was known as the Hen Ogledd (the Old North). I have a video on the subject if you're interested:
czcams.com/video/amcyb_q4MGE/video.html
@@historywithhilbert146 Yes, it looks like I've already watched and liked that video, but I'll watch again, thank you.
I am also from that area, the records for my family going back until at least 1510 in the Furness area. My grandfather pronounced my name like the Welsh daffyd, and my surname has the extra y , can I be allowed to imagine that this is because we were called " foreigner " by the invaders to denigrate those who were already living there, the cumbrians. My daughter is now in swansea and of course I delight in telling them that we of the hen ogled are the true Welsh and that they are late-comers. I sat by the fire as my grandfather told me old tales of giants, fair-folk, mannan mac lair and the island of youth in the west. Love your work, david wayles.
@davidwayles5427 the history of the Furness area is fascinating. I'd love to know what the theories are as to why the Romans didn't bother with it much. From there myself.
Hardly “the original Welsh”, bit cheeky there.
Thanks for the shoutout Hilbert!
Harri being the Welsh form of Henry is the reason we have a tradition of nicknaming Princes with the name Henry “Harry” to this day.
Harry being a nickname for Henry isn’t because Welsh’s variant of Henry is Harri. ‘Harry’ is originally an English attempt at saying the Norman French name ‘Henri’.
Interesting idea!
Why would it be an English attempt? When it’s a Welsh origin name?! It’s more likely a Welsh attempt at the name Henry. This is more likely as you don’t see Harri in English records until, during and after the Tudor rise to power.
@@JediSimpson I think it's a debate to be honest - it could have any number of origins.
@@JediSimpsonHenri is not pronounced Harry. Harri is.
I remember hearing on the radio an Italian opera singer who married a Welsh soprano and they went to live in Wales - he said that he learnt the Welsh language because he wanted to understand what his wife and her mother were saying in Welsh!
It isnt @welsh versions of their name'- those are their original welsh names that have been bastardised into english and latin. They were welsh first, not as an afterthought. And in the welsh tradition, they would have been very aware of their welsh ancestry- with welsh people of the day expected to be able to name their forbears going back about 20 generations by name
I have a supposed family connection to the Tudors. There is a claim that Jasper Tudor had an illegitimate daughter with a Welsh servant or concubine named Mevanvy verch Daffyd. The daughter's name was Joan Tudor. She married William ap Yevan and died giving birth to twins, John and Morgan, who were given the surname William in the English fashion. Morgan married Katherine Cromwell, the sister of Thomas Cromwell, Earl of Essex. Their descendant was Oliver Cromwell. John's line ended up with me. However, it is believed that the Cromwells invented Joan, to connect themselves with the Tudors.
Interesting family connection there!
Using a lot of V's there but there is no V in the Welsh language. Mefanwy Ferch Daffyd.
@@rehabwalesV was used in the past.
I would take the fact that his granddaughter, Elizabeth I, was a known Welsh speaker as a further line of evidence that it was preserved in the family, although certainly not conclusive.
That is likely not evidence of it being preserved in the family, more that Elizabeth just had a talent for language learning and saw it a useful thing to learn. I'm not aware of anything that suggests that Henry VIII, Edward VI or Mary I spoke any Welsh, although I would be happy to stand corrected on that.
@@roberthudson3386there was a greater emphasis on the importance of languages that was widespread. It was taken for granted to know languages of other courts and Latin or Greek.
@@roberthudson3386 Elizabeth I was fluent in French and Latin. As a teenager she wrote out a translation of Horace's Ars Poetica. She spoke to scholars at Oxford and Cambridge in Latin. In reaction, her successor James VI & I forbade his daughter Elizabeth (Queen of Bohemia) to learn Latin, which he said made women "cunning." Despite that she too was noted for her scholarly interests.
On a somewhat related note, why isn't that lovely Welsh dragon anywhere on the British flag...?
czcams.com/video/oJN8Y0Tk42A/video.html
A terrible oversight by the Sais
Hilbert, it is right in the centre, camouflaged on the red cross.
Well, the question is any oxymoron because the “Welsh” are thee British!
Fun vid!
10:00 I do remember a learned scholar of welsh history saying, up untill 1800's? yellow was the colour of Wales!
I visited Bosworth Field this summer and it is well worth a visit
Agree! I went first as a 5-year old and loved it! Returned as a 23-year old a few months ago and also really enjoyed it.
I heard his favourite song was Yma O Hyd (especially the verse that has a pop at Maggie Thatcher).
That’s quite interesting
Thanks! Glad you thought so :)
His use of the Welsh dragon reminds me of how like over half my family, myself included uses the shamrock
@MCKevin. My girlfriend is half Irish by ancestry, but her family have been in Yorkshire for 100 years. To keep her heritage, her gran kept dressing her in green, so much so that she cannot stand the colour for clothes. I asked if she would apply for an Irish passport, but she says she identifies as British.
plastic paddys. 🤢🤢🤢
@@alansmithee8831a couple questions, if you don’t mind?
How old is your GF and does she have children of her own yet?
I’d be curious to know if her opinions would change with age or having kids?
@@Inquisitor_Vex I will not give away her age, but she did not want to marry or have children.
I did ask if she would get an Irish passport, since her parents used to have a house in Spain, but she said she identifies as British, which allows her to still claim celtic heritage.
I have seen comments on other channels, from folk here in Yorkshire, who prefer to say they are British. I think that might have more to do with what Hilbert said in his "Geordie" video about Yorkshire having distinct Norse influence historically, though.
@@alansmithee8831 interesting, thank you.
Speaking about A-levels, can you make a video about why the british system is so unique (o-levels, a-levels) because as an indian we have a K-12 (kindergarten to 12th grade) system making it seem more exotic
O-Levels and A-levels, taken at about 16 and 18 respectively in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, used to allow kids the option to leave school WITH a qualification at two distinct points: but until about 1970 most left at 15 with nothing. That's not unique: France and Germany also have famous university-entrance exams at 18, but they too offer diplomas at 16 for those heading for work/apprenticeships. These exams for 16-year-olds are at the level of "graduation" at an American high school.
I remember going to Narberth in Pembrokeshire about 30 years ago. It was strange because along the main street, in the shops, at the South end they all spoke English, but at the north they all spoke Welsh. I'm used to hearing Welsh in North Wales, but I've never seen such a sharpe demarcation as this before or since. Wikipedia says that in 2021 the English/ Welsh speaking split is still 66/33.
The south technically has more Welsh speakers, by virtue of having more people in general. The north just has higher concentrations so you’re more likely to hear it there.
@@Inquisitor_Vex You can hear Welsh all over South Wales. There are active Welsh speaking night clubs in Cardiff and in Ponty. West of Swansea in Seansea and even in Cardiff you can hear it every day. Even the crowds at Welsh football grounds sing in some Welsh at Cardiff and Swansea, Yma ar hyd!
@@timphillips9954 feels like that’s directed more at OP than me?
Blud replied to my comment on a Saint Maximin video
This reminded me that the dynasty of kings that unified Castile and Aragon, founding Spain, is of Basque origin.
I am half Russian and half Welsh, thank you for your video, it sounded very strange how you said "Tudur" but I appreciate your attempt.
I would be so interested in your video about the idea he was somehow ashamed of his Welsh heritage. That concept seems so preposterous in the face of all the examples of him using his Welshness as a propaganda tool
Seeing as he grew up in Wales, I should not only think he spoke the language but could speak it like a native.
You correctly identify Brittany at the time as then being independent. The general populace at that time certainly spoke Breton, a Celtic sister-language which like Welsh (and Cornish), developed from the sub-Roman Brythonic language. Do we know what language was spoken in the court of Breton rulers?
Breizh until the Duchess of Brittany married the King of France in the XVII Century
@@christopherellis2663 The Breton language is called "Brezhoneg" in Breton, "Breizh" is the Breton for Brittany itself.
The peasantry of Pembrokeshire would most certainly have been Welsh speaking at that time.
11:04 didn’t expect Hilbert too be that good looking tbh
Strange his route did not take him to Pembroke or Monmouth!
Battle of Bosworth Field 1:00 didn't end the Wars of the Roses, there was another battle after - Stoke 1487.
Or arguably later than that with Perkin Warbeck's attempts on the crown. It doesn't really have a very definitive end. Bosworth is one of the candidates, Stoke another, the surrender of Perkin Warbeck in 1497 another.
So Henry VII was sometimes referred to as a "Breton Lad." Another famous Breton in British history is Sir William Wallace (Wallace = Welsh) whose ancestors may have have come from Brittany via SE Wales. While Wallace today stands for freedom, Henry stood for centralised power (or dictatorship) which culminated in the beheading of Charles I. The Tudor thesis and the Cromwellian antithesis led to one of the syntheses that form the ongoing dialectic of the British constitution.
Wasn’t Charles a Stuart (Stewart)
@@hugosophy Charles I was also a descendant of Henry VII, whose daughter Margaret Tudor became Queen of Scotland as the wife of James IV. The line went through James V, Mary Queen of Scots and James VI. That's how the Stuarts gained the English throne.
@@faithlesshound5621The Stuarts/Stewarts were descended from a Breton noble, Alan of Dol, whose son Walter became High Steward to the king of Scotland. The position, title and name Steward became hereditary to his family who eventually married into the Scottish royal line and inherited the throne. When James VI (Stewart) of Scotland became James I of England, the two nations were ruled by a king of Breton and Welsh descent, as well as Scottish, English, and Norman French.
From this video, you could never even tell that James knows a thing about the subject😭 'a bath', 'a field'
I agree! Shame on James!
Hello Hilbert. We are no further with the Welsh question, which seems a bit stuck. This seems to me to be how Richard was, before his body was recovered in recent years. Since he was famously "of York" who gave battle on vain (sorry, wrong school subject) it feels like the idea of bringing him back to York went equally unanswered and he is still stuck down in Leicester.
I spotted a reference to Celts in Cornwall on another comment. I used to pass Bosworth on my way to holiday there. Perhaps somewhere you could go for in person trips for such topics as Tintagel and celtic tin on ancient times, whilst checking on the revival of Cornish?
Lieve Hilbert, Henry VII had recht op de Engelse troon omdat zijn moeder Margaret Beaufort nakomelinge was van de Plantagenet koningen, niet omdat Edmond Tudor een verhouding had gehad met de franse koningin van Engeland. Voor de rest, vind ik deze, en al jouw videos, geweldig.
@@albertusjung4145 Henry VII married Elizabeth of York, at least in part to stop his heirs being challenged as not royal enough.
Yes, indeed, that is why he wed Elisabeth of York, yet he did have a - albeit not very strong - claim by blood descent through his mother. My only point was that he did not have a claim based upon Edmund Tudors affair with the Valois queen.
@@albertusjung4145 I replied mostly so that you might notice that you replied to me, with what looked like a comment for Hilbert, but thank you for the explanation. I have done this myself, then used "edit" to copy and paste it where I intended.
Would love to visit Cornwall at some point!
You said this was related to when you studied History for your A Levels?
Have you gone to university to study history?
You clearly have a strong aptitude for it
One of my ancestors was knighted by Henry VII
Small correction: The ruling family today is not Tudor but Hannover. The Tudor line died out with Queen Elizabeth I. Her closest relatives were the Stuart, in Scotland who ruled for some time until they were deemed to Catholic to rule in England. Out of the Protestant options, the Hannover were selected and brought in though they weren't directly related. In short: the Tudors didn't continue to this day, they're different families.
Actually they died out with the Stuart’s. As they did have a relative in the Stuart line. But you are right about the modern monarchy of England and Scotland. They are German it was effectively an Invasion by the Germanics. This is where we get all the Anglo Saxon nonsense today.
@@helsby1797 Which King?
@@helsby1797 thanks
No. He lived long in Brittany without learning Breton. He spoke his mother tongue English and French, plus possibly a little Latin. He might have known some stock Welsh phrases.
I remember year 12 history and Henry VII's foreign and economic policies. Good times
There is a lack of evidence to suggest Henry spoke Welsh, and it quite likely in my view he did not speak it fluently, as his family had become integrated into the Lancastrian nobility. However one person we do know who spoke Welsh was his granddaughter Elizabeth I. Given that (contrary to what might be suggested at some points in this video regarding Pembrokeshire/Penfro), the overwhelming majority of Welsh people, including in South Wales, spoke Welsh, and the difference between Wales and England in terms of population was nowhere near as great as it is today, this would have been a useful diplomatic skill that could be used to sway a significant proportion of the population of the kingdom, especially given that there had been a rebellion in Wales within living memory as far as Henry would have been concerned. So I suspect he probably spoke some Welsh, but it probably wasn't fluent and definitely wasn't his first language.
I'm sure he learned to at least read the road signs
😊
I think he was mostly an exile, his grandad certainly did
Ralph Griffiths was my tutor, was a top man.
Youre incorrect about little england beyond wales. The towns in certain parts of south and north wales were as you say, filled with english and flemish colonisers, however the majority of the population was still welsh and he would have still been completely submerged in welsh culture in Pembroke as a child
Honestly butt, that was a brill attempt at our accent
So he probably didn't pick up Welsh in Pembroke but what are the chances he picked up a corgi?
For the Algorithmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
@danieltaylor. About as big as a Dinky?
I like Henry Tudor. In my limited understanding of our history he is the king that truly makes the Kingdom of England and Wales into a united kingdom after a period of civil war, and before that, occupation.
HENRY VII welsh cousin was
Sir Rhys AP thomas... knight banneret at bosworth..
who has a tomb in camarthen church...
a powerful welsh magnate ,who spoke welsh and held CAREW CASTLE,,,
govenor and justicar of wales...during the early tudor period..
also
Henry VII tudor, uncle JASPER... was made duke of bedford..., after becoming LORD OF GLAMORGAN...,
even earlier richard plantagenet. duke of gloucester & Lady Ann neville of warwick castle ,,,where lord and lady of glamorgan... the yorkist richard III and Queen consort ann neville..
much of south wales , was complicated as to both history and *norman conquest* that was fleeting at best, with many rebellions, like the period of edward II and the despencer war...
and via marriage to welsh nobility...
many of the familes .... the morgans of tredegar house, the talbot dynasty of margam castle...connected to the earls of shrewsbury,...
had mixed norman & welsh ancestery, it was not given, that all of wales supported tudor family or were lancastrians,,, also a north-south and east & west divisions...
the HOUSE OF YORK, ancestor was princess gwladus ddu or gladys black eyes...
roger mortimer ...the lover of queen isabella....was the grandson of prince llewellyn fawr or llewellyn the great.also ancestor of york......
the white rose, therefore had support with several welsh dynasties, like the herberts of pembroke, raglan castles...
@wynford emmanuel ... the welsh historian... on youtube
That Welsh accent was more offensive to me and I'm Irish, that was so far off
I hold up my hand and apologise, not my best work!
The romanticisation of Henry VII in the Welsh literary tradition as a saviour come to rescue Wales from an English yoke, despite his actual "welshness" being dubious and his motivation having been to simply become king of England, is strangely reminiscent of the romanticisation of the last Jacobite Rising and Bonny Prince Charlie in the Scottish national myth.
Robert Burns (curiously for a Presbyterian) wrote poetry in which Charlie Stewart is cast as a tragic saviour who attempted to "free" Scotland in 1745, and the Battle of Culloden as the moment his country's lamentable fate was sealed. This despite the fact that Charles Stuart was only "Scottish" by distant ancestry, did not speak Scots or Gaelic, and was fighting primarily to restore his own line of the Stuart dynasty to the throne in Westminster, and establish a Catholic monarchy ruling by divine right over the whole of Britain.
The main difference is perhaps that, unlike the Jacobites, the Tudors actually won, and the ultimate outcome for Wales was its total annexation into the Kingdom of England. A dispassionate look at history seems to prove time and again that modern notions of nationalism are often completely alien to the historical contexts of squabbling opportunistic monarchs and claimants over which they're often retroactively superimposed. I guess bygone monarchs are just what you make of them.
Did you watch the video? Did you see what Henry's father was called? It wasn't John smith was it?
@@neilthornton3544 it was Edmund, an English name...
My own feeling is that Henry Tudor almost certainly understood Welsh, and probably could speak Welsh, it would be as a foreign language to him, and it is doubtful were it even to have been his second language.
It's certainly possible!
interesting, I assume that since he was Welsh he would speak it but I guess there's more than what you'd expect
It is true to this day that South Pembrokeshire, where I was born myself, is Little England Beyond Wales, yet I can speak Welsh. People do move around, and Harri spent enough time at Raglan.
I thought that Owen Tudor married Catherine (Henry V's widow) and that Edmund, their son, was legitimate?
Henry’s claim to the throne had nothing to do with his paternal Welsh side of the family. His claim through his very English mother, Margaret Beaufort.
Nonsense The vast majority of South Wales was Welsh speaking not so long ago. Indeed The Swansea valley and west from there today includes huge areas of Welsh speaking communities including those of West Wales. If he had live in Britany he would not have spoken French but the native language of the area which was and is basically Welsh or as close makes very little difference
ohh-wine app mah-red-duth
Did Henry VII speak his 'native' language? I'm rather confused when Hilbert refers to Pembroke as 'South Wales'. I suppose it is that in a literal, geographical sense. But no one would refer to it as that today. It's always been called West Wales. And yes, you could say anywhere from Anglesey to St Davids is 'west' Wales. But that is just pedantry, not reality.
As for the answer to the question, I suppose we have to look at other historical figures. Look at Napoleon - from an island with its own language, goes on to become leader of and expansionist France with a unified language. Stalin - grew up in an obscure corner of the Russian Empire with its own language and alphabet - becomes leader of an expansionist state with a dominant language not his own. Even the little fella with the funny moustache in the 1930s came from a separate country and claimed it needed 'lebensraum'.
There is no evidence that H VIII spoke Welsh. But if you wanted to ingratiate yourself with a greater power that you could claim to lead, wouldn't you do everything to make it look like you were 'one of them'?
Actually it is quite obvious that Elizabeth I spoke Welsh. Letters of hers still exist, written in her own hand and in Welsh. It therefore does not take two much a stretch of the imagination that her father and grandfather spoke Welsh.
In my head the division of Wales into north and south, and as an early-medievalist when I hear "West Wales" I think Cornwall. Just for me though!
@@historywithhilbert146 Thanks! To my mind 'South Wales' is the most populated part - anything from Swansea to Newport, and the Valleys. West of Swansea it's pretty rural - so although it's really southwest Wales, I'm sure it's referred to as West Wales.
7:02 Bare in mind that in Brittany they spoke Breton which is virtually the same as Welsh. 15:45 They probably meant Mill Lane in Cardiff, a well known area of cuisine where on Match Day they serve up English heads and Chips :-) At the end you mention a Poem written in English as perhaps being indicative? Well given the fact that it didn't take too long for the habits of London to suppress the culture of Pembroke then I wouldn't be too surprised. The Act of Union of England and Wales certainly didn't do Wales any favours. Even today the cricket team is known as 'England' in common parlance. I'd be amazed if anyone in Wales cared one iota what language he spoke, let alone that of his apologist Shakespeare whose words continue torturing school children to this day! In Wales, One might consider Henry VII to have been a Roman for it may fairly be asked: What did he ever do for Us? :-)
Fair points, but atleast he didn’t do anything remotely close to what his vile son would do To Wales!
Breton is not 'virtually the same as Welsh'. They are not mutually intelligible and are really quite different and distinct.
@@wayneseex1595 Over the centuries languages diverge of course. In the 1950's Johnny Onion Man visited Cardiff and was able to communicate in Breton. So just because the alphabets and spellings and accents are different it would be wise to not be too dismissive in the historical context.
Breton is not virtually the same as Welsh, it is very difficult to understand apart from a few words here and there to a modern Welsh speaker. There are exceptions but in general I cannot understand it and I speak Welsh fluently. The Breton language has been influenced by French and diverged a lot over the centuries.
@@roberthudson3386 And so your modern day linguistic skills define those of folk four centuries ago! What planet are you from?
My step-grandad is half-Welsh. Both of his parents spoke Welsh, even his English father. Unfortunately, neither him nor his sisters learned Welsh.
Dafydd Ddu - Ddu is pronounced a little like thee - thanks
Harri is how the Welsh say Henri...
bedankt,
dank u hilbert...
you maybe suprised, that your nederlands relation
CAROL VOORDERMANN is welsh...
also vlaams heritage -flemish has featured across south wales for hundreds of years..
as for the ROYAL HOUSE OF TUDOR,
King Henry VII,
via his father, edmund...
and grandmother
queen catherine valois...of france..
and his great grandmother
reine-queen isabeau wittelsbach, the german celebrity queen , during the argmanac V burgundian war...
where her husband King Charles VII , went mad...and regency occured.., his grandson was King Henry VII of Lancaster,...
so the war of the roses-cousins , happens after the french civil war and a french king going mad, then its a COPY & PASTE into english history...
the HOUSE OF WITTELSBACH ,,,rulers of bavaria & the HOUSE OF VISCONTI, lords of milan... house of valois- nobility and royalty of france...
so HENRY VII , is related to the french kings & ann Anne valois- duchess of bourbon...* regent of france.. Anne de Beaujeu,
also distantly related to duke francis II of brittany...,queen isabella the warrior, catherine of aragon, philip II... charles V...
the portugese & spanish royal families via the red prince john of gaunt...
It is sometimes, suprising, how many english historians are clueless of the house of tudor being oringally welsh,
let alone HENRY VII , being related to half of western europe royalty...
2 good books
HOUSE OF BEAUFOURT,
THE BASTARD LINE that captured the throne...
by nathan amin... who is welsh historian...
the RED PRINCE
John of Gaunt-Ghent..
the ancestor of lancaster, beaufourt, york & tudor, castille & portugal...
by helen clark
Ddu would be thee at least in Morden South Wailian Welsh
I do believe Elizabeth 1st spoke Welsh So there is a greater possibility her father spoke Welsh
I think that the language of his Home land would be most loved by him
And his daughter too 😊
Thats my own thoughts
Henry VII was her grandfather.
Wouldnt it be pronounced tea-deer?
😂😂
hey hilbert, what'"s with the ukranian flag in your picture..?????
Face reveal?! 😱
More important could he speak Frisian?
Definitely :)
Why do you ask?
@@mariannehancock8282 it's contextual.
🏴 CYMRU AM BYTH. Wales forever
Pob parch i chithau
it wouldn't be your channel if you didn't return to him eventually
Just watch me do it
I'm American, what the hell are the cranky things?
The Welsh dynasty who hated their own. Along with the Scots. Scaring the Irish psyche....
Henry Vll was a black king, albeit brown in skin colour.👨🏾🎓
Don't think so. This invasion barely started after the 2nd world War, so after 1945, and in my country 🇪🇸 after Franco died
Ddu= thee
Medieval 'divers' = 'diverse'. 4:00
The only true Welsh leader would have wanted an independent Wales, henry 7 a pretender !
I am convinced Henry Tudor did not speak welsh, nor did Jasper and Edmund who were born and raised in England and only moved to Pembroke in their 20s. Even Owen was placed as a page in court in London at age 9 and would not have spoken welsh at court , and surely not with his french wife. Henry may have learned some welsh when a ward of the welsh Herbert family but he was living with Mrs Herbert at Raglan Castle, and she was not welsh.
He spent much of his youth in Wales (albeit under English guardians), then Brittany. He would likely have picked up a degree of Welsh, Breton, French, and English. I believe he would have had some grasp of the Welsh language, he would probably have been more comfortable in French or English, however.
Twdr
I really enjoy everything you do. However, when you pronounce Dafydd Ddu (Davith thee) as Davith doo. Well, it's really painful to listen to. Surely you can get a Welsh speaker to help you with your pronunciations. It's really not that difficult, when you master the Welsh phonetics Thanks anyway for everything you produce. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Duw bendithia Gwilym ap Siarl Tywysog Cymru
Yn ol i'r Almaen gyda fe!
@@roberthudson3386Mewn gwirionedd mae o'n fwy Gwyddelig nag Almaeneg felly byddai rhaid iddo fo groesi Cymru i fynd adref.
@@Bernaren60 Sut mae e'n Gwyddelig? Does gan e ddim un aelod o'i teulu sydd o Iwerddon.
@@roberthudson3386 Mae teulu Arglwydd Fermoy, taid ei fam, wedi dod o Gorc yn Iwerddon yn wreiddiol. Roche neu de Róiste yn Wyddeleg oedd enw eu teulu nhw.
@@Bernaren60 Diddorol
You keep saying South Wales when you mean South Pembrokeshire. South Wales was overwhelmingly monolingual Welsh speaking.
Nobody speaks welsh not even in 1485
I do!
@@Simonsvids Prove it
Yes they did, English took its hold in Wales during the Industrial Revolution. Before this Wales was very British speaking! Yes, “Welsh” is British!
🤔
Even in 1900 over 90% of Wales was Welsh speaking, what are you on about.
Don't worry...soon the whole world will be speaking American English
Not if I have anything to say about it! Those people can't spell, and their grammar is full of lazy illogical nonsense like "I could care less"
Obviously doesn't watch the news...
I'm learning Spanish ready for the future. Most of my relatives in US/Canada speak it as first language and I live in Lancashire which is almost a Welsh/Irish colony. Don't rate the chances for English-English, it belongs to the whole world. How we use it now shall become archaic very rapidly, just listen to the millions using it in Africa.
Hey, what does this have to do with climate change!? What are you, a DENIER or something! Don't worry, it's almost over, all over.
are you ok, buddy?
The first series was mediocre. After that it became legendary.