Fallout's Divergence: How to Solve Its Many Problems - Fallout Lore
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To respond to a few points: on copyright issues, we can't conflate game design decisions with lore. Sure, it may very well be that Bethesda chose to rename a real-world company like the Washington Post to the Capitol Post for copyright reasons. But the reason it was renamed does not matter from a lore perspective. Once it enters the world, it becomes established lore, and we have to explain it from a lore perspective, not a game design perspective. The only way to explain it from a lore perspective is if the world had diverged by the time the founders of the company had to choose a name, which is why they chose a different one than we find in the real world.
When something diverges, it splits--it goes in two different directions. We know from time travel fiction that the smallest change to the past can have dramatic effects on the future. In a fictional divergence, any changes at the divergence point will greatly change the future of the new timeline, so that it becomes unrecognizable compared to our real one. It then becomes surprising and even unbelievable to find things long after the divergence in the new universe that exactly match things we find in the old. It becomes a divergence breaking event.
So the only explanation is that the divergence is not a divergence. It's more like a rolling aberration. The timelines stay more or less the same except for pockets of change that get gradually more severe over time, culminating in the apocalypse.
I guess my issue is with the word "divergence". If this was a true divergence, the new timeline would go in a different direction, not constantly revisit the old one. This event should be called something else, like a "timeline aberration".
Basically the Bible tries to say that the divergence is something like a butterfly effect. Except that the evidences show something very different. What would this be? A... "dancing bee effect"?
Then it should say "something like a butterfly effect". It doesn't. It says "it diverged".
Honestly i think the divergence does have a set start point (though it's most likely waaaay before WW2 and that set start point is just 1 thing, 1 action diverging from our reality and that one action sets in motion a butterfly effect know as ''the divergence'' leading to all of the differences.
(ghehehe, thinking about it, it could be the aliens that are that 1 thing and their abductions, that 1 action. it could very well be that the aliens are in essence the divergence, the single different thing, leading to alot more differences. Say you abduct someone and thus he doesn't invent, doesn't produce but leaves a hole in the market that some unknown person will fill, this can account for all the company/tech/naming differences.)
This to me seems to make more sense then a ''magical divergence'' changing the world.
I think the author of the fallout bible is simply wrong about the divergence and the time of it unless he ment that all those differences accumulated over time didn't start to matter untill after WW2.
This. Makes. ALL. The sense.
Why bring religion into a perfectly nice conversation about a videogame?
Eta: it was a joke guys. I know what he meant. My humor gets weird sometimes but when read it does seem like he means THE Bible so if someone comments without watching the video they would be confused. Again sorry ppl. 😥💀
Also Oxhorn, thank you for thinking about us whilst you are surely very busy with the move and ALL the crap that entails. I know times like that can be stress induced and.....wait. Are you perchance using us as an escape from the stress of moving?🤔
If so, niiiiiiice 😄
The divergence happened shortly after the Big Bang since the very laws of physics are different in the Fallout universe (radiation, plasma, lasers, and cryonics all work differently).
Though personally I like to think of the divergence more like a gradient. If our universe is a long strip of Red, then the Fallout universe is a long strip of Red that slowly turns Blue over time. until it becomes fully Blue in 2077.
The farther back in time from 2077 you go, the more similarities to our world you will find, to the point that it's _mostly_ the same before 1945, but still includes distinct events unique to it, like the Zetan kidnappings.
This is actually a really good way of looking at this.
Official headcanon located and now confirmed. Thank you.
He was talking about history dumbass
IoKnight There you go. Divergence in timelines wouldn't be one event changing everything, it would be small differences building up over time. Since you're right about obvious differences in physics, initial conditions had to have been different at the big bang. Wouldn't have made much difference until advanced technology started being developed but once one change is introduced the butterfly effect kicks in and small things like minor biological differences in a human's brain due to slightly different laws of chemistry affecting their behavior start to snowball.
IoKnight Except for the fact that the Big Bang is considered a scientific theory and not law, so it's possible it never happened.
6:00 OR, there really is a Mothership Zeta. YOU DIDN'T CONSIDER THAT, DID YOU?!
***adjusts tinfoil hat***
YOU DONT SAY
@@profity2392 Dude, why are you replying to year old comments?
Enemy Atom65 Have hope
@@jadanvang3156 Lol
Enemy Atom65 in a year i’ll be back to reply to you again
Hey Oxhorn I don’t know if you realized but when he says “new transitor” he could literally just mean that a newer more improved version that came out
Nah. The Fallout 'verse seems to be lacking many obvious bits of technology that would have been developed if transistors, followed by integrated circuits would have produced. Things like PCs and cell phones.
@@etepmaximus5886 We see computer terminals throughout the series that are very much modeled on late 70s - early 80s PCs though. They even include tape drives, so we can assume they're more than just dumb terminals too.
That's actually what a divergence is: changes are small at first and accumulate with time. Also called the "butterfly effect." The day of the divergence, our world and the Fallout world would be identical except for one single change. That *is* the divergence. The slow accumulation of changes are the effect of that divergence.
The things you've pointed out do tend to support the idea that the divergence was much earlier than "after WWII." The delay of the development of the transistor is merely an effect of the divergence, not when it took place.
So, no, whether or not the Boston Shamrock Taphouse was founded in 1877 is unlikely to effect the west coast music industry enough to preclude the same artist writing the same song on parallel worlds decades later. I don't feel like that is lore breaking or SOD breaking.
You're too influenced by Back To The Future II, where a single change (Biff gets/doesn't get the sports almanac) had huge changes on Hill Valley. Think more the original BTTF where one change (George punching/not punching Biff) only affected the McFly and Tannen families. The divergence took place in 1955, but it didn't stop Toyota from making the same truck in both 1985s. But given another century? The accumulated changes might be profound.
Here's a wild theory: the divergence didn't take place here on Earth, but rather thousands or millions of years ago on the Zetan homeworld. That change eventually lead to the difference on Earth being whether or not Zetans came here. The Fallout world is with Zetan interference, ours is without.
Frank Soukey And as time went on, it’s effect increased, so events like the Great War and the Resource War, the Canada Exile, etc.
So you're basically saying, the Zetans, wether knowing or not, kidnapped key persons (e.g. the guy who invented the Transistor in the late 1940's), before they made their mark on history and thus influenced the timeline?
Interesting theory, but sadly, it can't be backed up as far as I know, like with ingame news paper articles talking about such people disappearing or anything like that.
Azrael Maybe the Zetans influenced the technology in fallout and humans created their own variants. What if the fallout timeline is just humans being harassed by orbital aliens for centuries but humans get to benefit off leeching information and technology from the zetans to harness sustainable nuclear fusion, high powered lasers, robots and maybe even the teleportation technology the institute has?
But we reverse engineered the transistor from crashed Zetan scout ships in the 40's like at Roswell.
@@xxheartbrokexx100 Except Roswell was Operation Mongol, an attempt to spy on the Soviet Union, and didn't feature extraterrestrial technology at all.
In Fallout New Vegas, the songs "In the Shadow of the Valley," "Lone Star," and "Let's Ride Into the Sunset Together" were all released in 1998 and "Where have you been all my life" was released in 2003. The song "Sit and Dream" came out in 2009, 1 year before the games release.
Kyle Vernon fallouts universe diverged from our own in the 50s or 60s, so it wouldn't make sense...
I'd like to believe the divergence doesn't affect everything
Also, when you think about it, the divergence doesn't necessarily have to change an event entirely. An event might differ from our world but not so far that it's not similar anymore. Like having 2 person with the same face, and same personality, but both are wearing different clothes
Moist Bubonic They were? I’m not saying they weren’t, but they have that sort of vintage sound to them.
Just because the fallout world changed on a date doesn't mean that people did not go on to develop the same things as in our universe. The same songs could be written by the same people and recorded by the same artists. The same engineers could develop the same weapons, or something very like them.
Only one aspect of the world could change, the rest of the world could carry on as it did in ours, its not all forced to change. Like convergent evolution, different animals developing to look similar at different time periods but filling the same niche in an ecosystem.
Just because history diverged at a certain point doesn’t mean that everything about history is completely different. If the divergence was a single point, I see no reason why certain things, such as the songs and the weapons, could not have been the same as in our history. Why does the divergence mean that everything that happened after world war 2 in our universe couldn’t possibly exist in the fallout universe as well?
I agree. otherwise, humans wouldn't exist on the fallout universe.
Thank you for making this comment. You saved me the time. This is exactly what I was thinking during the entire video.
Divergence doesn't mean that the whole universe is different, just that it took a different route. So I fail to see the problems with most of the post-ww2 stuff like the music and the weapons.
Leonov Martinovich thank you
Thank you. I found this entire video very frustrating due to ignoring this possibility. Normally I love Oxhorn. Seems like a strange oversight.
i was so confused as to how they were lore-breaking
Indeed. Divergence doesn't mean literally everything is different, it just means it branched off in significant ways.
BAM! Right on the money! the problem here Leonov Martinovich is that we are surrounded by fucking morons. thats the reason so many don't get it.
I don't like that people are so dead-set on finding the exact date of the divergence and am a bigger fan of Ox's idea of the divergence. In fact I think we could just say that this is a completely new universe very close to ours instead of saying theres a certain point where something changed. I don't know, I just enjoy the stories being told and the world that's been created here, there's no point getting sweaty about small stuff like this and ruining it for myself.
Godo I in my idea it is in 55 is when the final nail in the coffin for the divergence but all the things ox references yes all over the place but they are all nails in that coffin
Godo don't know if this is true but game theory confirms that the divergence happens in 1961 he compared the prices of gold to figure this out
Godo I agree. Anyone logical understands this. Oxhorn gets it.
Fuck game theory
Exactly. Don’t overthink about it. Just like reallife, overthinking is unneccessary. Insecure people may overthink alot, including me, but it just makes it worse. As long as it fits into the world well enough it’s okay. Like the song by Guy Mitchell. It’s from 1980, but it’s not KISS or AC/DC.
”IM ON A HIGHWAAAY TO HELL”
Lmao no.
A possible explanation for cholet propane could be that they didn't sell propane in 1895, but sold something else until later when they got into the propane market.
Ethan Manley I was taking a trip into the comments if anyone said anything about this, it's like Nintendo being founded in 1889 but starting to sell consoles in 1983.
Nintendo does still make Hanafuda cards, some sets even have Mario themes to them.
Like KyoCera (KyoTO CeraMICS). From Ceramics to Printers for their main product
Like Nintendo!!! :D
@@theakbars98 Thats what I said! :D
Also worth noting is the existence of a Nuka Cola bottle in the cinematic intro of Fallout 4, when the male Sole Survivor/Nate talks about his ancestor serving in WWII. Not only would this be around 80 years before the invention of Nuka Cola in-universe, but it's also before the alleged point of the divergence, going by the "after WWII" mark. But I guess that might just be developer error.
As for Nuka Cola, it is obviously the Fallout version of Coca Cola AND Pepsi (as evidenced by John-Calbe Bradberton's name being a combination of the names of the inventors of both), introduced to our world in 1886 and 1893/8 respectively. No such drinks exist within the Fallout universe, which, obviously, has Nuka Cola instead. So, the lack of the invention of both Coke and Pepsi is yet another point of divergence from our world.
Nuka-World has a loading screen that seems to imply that the Coca-Cola company did exist (and successfully threatened legal action against Nuka-Cola over their use of Coca-Cola's patented bottle design, so it existed well into the 2000s).
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence; the exclusion of certain brands or products doesn't mean they didn't exist within the context of the lore. If something has no evidence to support its existence, it should be ignored in lore discussions, but that shouldn't be taken as a confirmation of nonexistence.
How long did that take u to write ?
The GentlemanPirate This is minor, but wouldn't you put Coca Cola's founding year as well? I'm just mentioning this because you did it for Pepsi. So 1886/92 and 1893/8.
Hourai That is a good point; however, the loading screen might just be a joke by the developers, to explain the new bottle rocket shape that first appears in 4. Assuming Coca Cola did exist in the Fallout Universe, and they did indeed sue Nuka Cola, I would assume that the other similarities, namely the ribbon logo font (which is also trademarked by coke in our world) and the slogan "Have a Nuke!" Would also have been grounds for lawsuits. Given that Coca Cola in our world has long been an international brand with the means to hire a large team of lawyers, while Nuka Cola started out as the creation of an amateur chemist, with a lawsuit worthy name similarity from the very beginning, at the very least there is a divergence as to how popular and big the real world companies have become in the Fallout Universe.
Gamerman 375 If you take a look at my first comment again, you might notice that I did indeed mention 1886 as the year Coca Cola was first introduced to the public. The reason I have two years for Pepsi is because it was originally called "Brad's Drink" and was only renamed to Pepsi Cola later.
Long story short from me: Don’t think so much about it, just enjoy the ride
Mah màn, don’t care that I’m a year late.
Bethesda approves. They are very much on the side of their customers *not thinking* .
Yeah theres too much to cover for it all to make sense
The Fallout 4 Parody series had the best ending, just nuke everything cus everyone im the wasteland sucks
You won't live enough to understand it all.*
*Experiences may differ
Well "Divergence" by definition has to be single occurrence. That said, the Fallout universe has not experienced one divergence but multiple. Each instance you identified is its own separate divergence. Each divergence drives a wedge between the timelines, but the elasticity of time tries to recombine them until the Great War.
andre21198 who is to say that we dont have our own great war?
Technically there is a "Great War" the first World War in history was often referred to as The Great War
but Fallout also had both WWI and WWII... the thing with divergence is that it does not alter EVERYTHING... I mean really if divergence was about to change everything then fallout universe would be unrecognizable... I like to think about divergence as an butterfly effect - something changed, some things went other ways... but outline is pretty much the same.
Julian Cumbia We stopped referring to it as such when we proved just a few years later that an even greater war is possible.
Jiovani Rivera We probably will, and we probably won't live to see it happen.
you make the assumption that a date of divergence would mean that nothing would be the same after said divergeance. that's ridiculous
Teph thank you.
Correct. I would add that "divergence" here means goes along a different *path* not a different direction.
Not to mention that "the divergence" isn't something that literally happened , it's just a convenient framing for the audience.
Oxhorn usually does a good job and there are some good examples like the Cabot house but at least half is wrong. Music, architecture, guns could all develop the same on both sides of the divergence without it being a problem/contradiction.
Eres un grande
I like the idea that Zetans caused the divergence far back in Fallout history. What if the mothership Zeta aliens were an advance force for their species (who plan 100s of years ahead of time - not so unlikely with time dilation due to FTL and stasis tech) and tasked with manipulating human history to keep humans at a more primitive level of technology, or even cause war between nations in order to make Earth easy pickings for the main Zetan invasion force when it arrives?
Or the Zetans do exist in our timeline and we don't know it!?!?!?
Have to be dramatic
Zetans don't exist.
While possible, If they wanted to invade, they would have done it LONG before Fallout 4.
@@MrXuliest Mr. House you have to consider all possibilities.
As OP pointed it out we don't know how long it took for this force to arrive.
Maybe they're the scouting party for the invasion. 1000 years is nothing if you're a few points above light speed.
It was either that or someone meddling with Time
My favorite part of Fallout is to study the lore extensively and was incredibly excited to see this video. I, too, zoom in on everything and read each piece of media to fit together the pieces. I agree that the Divergence is not a static date, but a slow, uneven blending over the course of a few decades. What an incredible, complicated, extensive world we have the opportunity to research!
Kate Duff-Us agreed! Love to piece it together to see Fallout's personality shine.
It's funny how the Fallout lore is almost as deep and interesting as real world History..
Speaking of Fallout History is as interesting as speaking about real life History.
Heartaches by the Number is not the most modern song, actually. "Lone Star" by Tony Marcus, featured in Fallout New Vegas, was released in 1998! That means this song is younger than many of your viewers and just 13 years older than the game itself.
Nice catch, I missed that one!
Oxhorn I was just gonna comment exactly that
In that case... YES!
1 year younger than me!
Sheesh now I feel even older than with most others numbers he explained... I know them all by heart and not from the game xD and I'm not even from that time (born 1985) but you saying older than most of the viewers really made me feel old xD hahahahahhaha
I always thought it was a cool plot device to imagine that the splitting of the atom itself diverted the timeline. Like, creating an alternate universe is an unknown side effect of splitting the atom. Insert quantum shenanigans here. I always liked to think that the first nuclear detonation was the precise quantum instant of The Divergence.
This video as well as your videos on Nate and Nora and who dropped the bombs first are some of my favorites
Sparty Green who dropped the bombs first is a question that, when answered, ruins the entire point of the series.
I think the answer is rather simple. The Divergence doesn't mean EVERYTHING changes. It just changed the course of things. As for the music? Could be newer music didn't survive the war, maybe it was stored in a different way that didn't take.
yeah, I don't understand Oxhorn's concern over stuff that exists AFTER the divergence. Many things would be different after the divergence but obviously most things would also remain the same, not everything would change. So in game the music, the architecture, the art that exists after the divergence would all be safe and would just be explained as not being affected by the change caused in the divergence.
You guys are the only smart ones I see here.
Yup, I see Scollay Square as a prime example of gradual divergence. Knocked down in 1961 in our world, it survived in the Fallout universe to become Goodneighbor (ironically named after the burlesque star whose striptease act was the beginning of the end for the Old Howard Theatre, aka The Memory Den, and the Square as a whole.)
Hey I am late to the party, but I had an idea.
What if the children of Atom are right? The idea of division, from the multiplication of universe through atomic division by atomic warheads does in fact create whole new universes: when a atom divides, the universe divides. Think about it the divergence allegedly begins shortly after WW2, or around WW2: either way at some point before the transistor. What major event occurs around the end of WW2? The first drop of atomic weapons?
What if the divergence and what created it is the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The first 'mass division' of universes, which in turn caused new universes like fallout to be created and in a way altering the timeline of said universes? It could help highlight the inconsistencies as our universe split from the fallout universe and as such is similar but different, and these changes in turn echo throughout time.
I accept this is some pretty multi dimensional quasi-pseudo science bull**** but if the universe divides surely there would be some inconsistencies?
maybe.
I gotta get myself some of whatever you're smoking
You are probably right but this is just a cool fictional gimmick, no way does actually splitting an atom „split“ the universe and change physical laws
I think the concept of Divergence should not be interpreted as the point from which one timeline separated into two different timelines, but instead as the steady separation of two parallel universes that started as very similar and ended in time with very different outcomes.
I think that's a perfect view of it. It starts with something small, like a caveman killing someone earlier than what happened here, then abductions by zetans, propane being developed earlier than it should, and as technology advances, it gets faster and faster. Weapons developed before they should, finally culminating in massive amounts of man portable atomic weaponry, with that atomic development skyrocketing technology and finally the game begins.
I'm surprised you didn't even touch on the isometric games on this one, Ox. I mean, they both had desert eagle .44s, a pistol that didn't even start production until 1982. It also mentions that the Deagle became famous through it's use in film, implying that the Fallout universe had action movies similar to our own around the turn of the century.
The p90 is also in the game. Pretty sure thats a late 80s gun.
@@exploringjenkins413 it's in the name! Came out in 1990
Also FN FAL,H&K Sub-Machinegun,also SIG P200 and many others real life weapon
The G11 also entered mass production in the Fallout universe because it's available in Fallout 2
They could have just used the desert eagle in the 1980s and 1990s noir films, since I assume those would have remained popular. We know the styles of movies remained basically the same since 1946 or so.
I think the divergence is more related to technology, than trivia, such as company names. I don't think, or believe, it has to be perfect. But I've always felt that the Fallout universe is meant to capture the feel of the future being related to a 1950's perspective of futurism, with the main technology and historic changes occurring post mid-1950's. Valve tubes in musical equipment, are still used to this day, as some manufacturers believe it to have better qualities in some regards.
He literally tried to dismiss it as well because they have to change the name due to vopyright well then its part of the lore and a good enough reason to declare divergence on company names guys a fkn clown🤡
There’s a thing about parallel universes: constants and variables. Of course our two universes are different and totally parallel to one another but it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t have anything in common simply on behalf of being parallel. There’s always something in common and always something that differs. They’re like siblings who seem entirely different but deep inside still have something in common
Иван Грязин play BioShock: Infinite, it actually covers the same subject throughout the game.
Christian Johnson I played it :)
That’s where I’ve gotten this though from in the first place
Like the fact that humans have two arms in the Fallout universe and in our universe (First thing that came to mind)
YAY its Lockie and the fact that there’s the planet Earth, it has the United States, that English is spoken there as the main language, etc, etc, etc
Albeit all of these things are somehow different from our universe as well
Once again - constants and variables
The constants thing fucking pisses me off because it is total bullshit, but you are right that not everything must be different. Variables A, B, and C could all be diffrent values, but they could also be identical.
Thank you Oxhorn, I've never given the "divergence" much thought since I first played Mothership Zeta several years ago. After meeting the samurai (Toshiro?) and doing a brief bit of research I just assumed the divergence happened sometime during the fifteenth century.
Your theory helps me with that actually, the divergence happened the day the Zetans arrived in Earth's orbit and began abducting the first humans. Maybe Toshiro was the first human ever abducted? Wouldn't that be cool? In any case I now think that's the point the divergence actually happened. Of course after that point our two timelines ran roughly the same for several centuries with only small differences cropping up such as the Cabot family and whatnot every so often.
It wasn't until the 1940's that events in the Fallout universe started to diverge more wildly from ours to become unrecognisable. At least that's what I think. The Fallout Bible is likely completely out of date by now.
Rebecca Mumford this is a good way to illustrate my comment about the ripple effects on time. If the Zetians never came to our earth, then each time they removed a person from the Fallout timeline they made a ripple in time. That persons absence caused certain people to not be born or maybe allowed others to live longer than they should. Each person taken could be why transistors didn’t get invented early and why coke and Pepsi never got founded but instead Nukacola filled the gap.
I love fictional science and hypothetical timelines.
Heh, I like that, Daisy Azuras. Its an expansion on my original theory. You could be right. Every single abduction would likely indeed change the timeline and have massive effects. I've been a fan of the infinate multiverse theory that basically says there's a timeline for every single possible timeline. I tend to see the Fallout timeline as just one particular timeline where Zetans came, did a whole lot of abducting which caused this particular timeline we play as.
Rebecca Mumford want to get a level deeper? What if fictional storytelling is just our linked subconscious minds over multiple universes. Fallout may not just be a game but a shared insight into a possible real timeline that we all dream about.
Technically, the Pip-Boy’s “64k RAM” is a reference to a Commodore 64. It’s RAM free is the same with 38k of RAM.
Not so sure, 64 KiB is just a very nice round number for computers.
It is 16^2 Bytes. It can be addressed with 2 octets.
It makes sense to use 8 bit Bytes (octets), because it is a power of 2. 4 bit is too little for to contain the alphabet (ASCII didn't exist back in 1950) so a byte has to be larger, the next logical choice is an octet.
It also makes sense to use a some power of 2 for the address with. And with 2**(2**4) you get the 64 KiB RAM you have in the Commodore and many other devices. I want to remind you that that there are many controllers that also have 64 KiB of Memory.
.
Now there where computer with Bytes that are not 8 Byte but 6, 9, 12 or 16. But this do not make so much sense since a power of 2 is preferable in a binary system and 16 is too larger wasting too much memory which was expensive.
To be honest, it's probably best not to think to hard about it. The lack of continuity is likely just due to unplanned writing, a lack of knowledge of lore and the fact that 3 different companies have made Fallout games.
Actually, Obsidian was just a renamed Black Isle Studios.
Yeah, but where is the fun in that? If we believe that it was the 'lack of planned' writing, then where is the fun of imagination?
To be fair the lore has a technical fuck-ton to it; one could probably teach a course in alternate US/world history with just this lore alone. That said, its possible that much of it could've been rehashed/confused/forgotten when passed off to different people who didn't originally create the universe. It takes a lot to keep a world this big together with so many people when its in constant transition and development over the course of decades. Some parts are going to have gaps or not line up quite right so its up to us as the fans who HAVE been there since the beginning to figure out the missing pieces of the puzzle.
@@KittyFAN13. Not true. They were basically built from the remains of Black Isle as Interplay shut down Black Isle after the start of the 21st century.
Calling it the Divergence was just a bad phrase on their part. That implies that everything was the same up to a certain point, when that's obviously not the case. The Fallout universe has always been different. It's just that most of the major details before the discovery of nuclear power were similar between the real world and the Fallout world. But there as never a case where it was a sharp divide. One moment in time when Fallout split off from real world history. It's just that it's convenient to base Fallout's history on the real world history. Both for saving time and for the sake of familiarity.
Yes, I believe you are right here.
Ppl read too much into it. It only explains why their are robot butlers and why ppl still dress like it’s 1950.
And before Bethout this was the case. Then Bethesda took control and we all know how much they (don't) care about consistent lore.
Aye I think they just tried to hard to be like A Boy and His Dog. The divergence in that timeline is that JFK was never assassinated.
@@drahcir8402. Cap on that one. The whole divergence thing was talked about with Fallout 2!
China lake in our universe was actually only produced in limited numbers as an experiment. We primarily used the M79 during Vietnam and going all the way up to we got rid of grenadiers till recently.
On the gun lore, there is also the FN FAL, the P90, and the H&K G-11. The FAL was being used by NATO forces by the 50’s, the P90 was developed by FN in 1990 for use with PDW ammunition, and the H&K G-11 was a mostly prototype weapon made in the 80’s for use of experimental case less ammunition but development of it stopped when the Berlin Wall fell. So does that mean that the Berlin Wall was still a prominent thing in the Fallout universe? Was NATO standardization more agreed upon. I dunno just wanted to put my thoughts out here
These are good thoughts, and it shows why gun lore is important. Technological advancement is often tied to historical events.
Along with the m16 was used. The service rifle m16. Assault carbine m4a1 and the marksmen rifle a DMR. I think the Chinese assault rifle is fallouts take on an ak47.
Mista Grista I'm guessing in the fallout world the 1980s-90s assault weapons ban never happened because how available automatic weapons are. But I'm still surprised that even how close we are to DC in fo4 there isn't one 10mm smg, r3-4 assault rifle or Chinese assault rifle. I assumed maybe in fo3 there was a Chinese incursion bigger than that one factory. The reason for all the guns in NV is the gun runners. Alot of the stuff is newly built.
The desert eagle is in fallout 1 and 2 and it was made in the 1990s
+ Martin Triscila
its not an m4a1 its a colt model 733, And the chines assault rifle is not an AK47 , it has the hand guard of an RPD receiver of a Chinese produced AK, and not to mentions it shoots 5.56 and not 7.62 so it is a combination of existing weapons and not an original AK.
Don't forget the song "I'm Movin' Out" by The Roues Brothers (from New Vegas), which was written and recorded in 1999, according to Billy Roues himself.
Really??????? 1999????? I had no idea, they fooled me. I hart falloutz
Songs are different...
The real divergence was the friends we made along the way
I like the concept of the divergence not being in a fixed point in time in which something happened or NOT happened but it being a part of an array of smaller changes and differences to our universe all throughout time. It gives the story and lore more of a background instead of saying something like "On the 5th of May then and then something happened that made the timeline split". This makes you wonder a lot more about in what even more ways the Fallout history could differ from our own.
The existence of the Heckler & Koch G11 in Fallout 2 is definitely one of my favourites here… that weapon was developed in the late Cold War and never actually used by anyone...
Was almost issued to the Bundeswehr, than the reunification of germany came and there was no money for the G11. Reunification was good, but damn I would have loved to see the G11 in Bundeswehr service
“Of course,we haven’t found any Zeta motherships in orbit around earth”Or,have we?( illuminati music intensifies )
"how to solve it problems"
This whole video is an assumption that things that happened after the divergence wouldn't happen in both worlds after the divergence... Just because there was a divergence doesn't mean that things wouldn't or can't happen.
Same with the design of weapons, just because the timeline changed doesn't mean some things wouldn't be made
Well meaby Fallout is a game in our world because we dropped the bombs and now its a game here where in 5heir universe its reality :O
Exactly. Which pretty much makes this entire video pointless.
*applies tinfoil hat*
What do you mean Mothership Zeta never visited Earth?
think of the divergence as two starships travaling along one makes a 0.001º turn, they look like they are still travaling the same as before but a few years later you can see a small diference in the course travaled
Really makes you think about how unique and interesting the Fallout universe is, anyone else just go to the Fallout wiki sometimes and get lost in it all? Great video Oxhorn :)
When you consider the fact that the soda brand known as "Vim" is meant to be the Fallout universe's equivalent to the soda known as "Moxie," you'll find that it does exist in our world.
As does Sunset Sarsaparilla, It's Sioux City Sarsaparilla
Chris Holdread Ahh, interesting. And here I was, thinking that due to their competition with Nuka all those years, Sunset Sarsparilla was actually meant to be Pepsi. Seeing as how Pepsi's early ingredients were Sarsparilla based, and because their logo looks like the Sun setting over the ocean. Thanks to you, I learned something new today. Nice.
This is like trying to figure out the Legend of Zelda timeline...
Or the pokemon anime timeline
I am literally on break while at work when this came up
Perfect timing
I was cooking 4th of July food for the fam when this popped up
Lol
Mindy Auron isn’t fallout 4 NSFW
dan miller wait what?
LMAO
i think due to licensing and stuff things like companies, like with shamrock taphouse and capital post being not named after what would be their equivalent in our timeline can be disregarded as well, having the names not match is a lot more affordable than rights to a name
anter176 this, exactly this
No Golden Arches then? Bummer. Could have called it McDoogles Golden Rainbows. ;-)
Came here to say exactly this.
Think about the weapons in another way. In Fallout, after WW II their timeline had more wars and conflicts on the world and with more war, the need for better and newer weapons was much higher.
Strictly speaking, Mothership Zeta *could* have visited earth, we just haven't noticed it yet - in the context of fiction like this, things that simply would have gotten lost in the historical noise (Abductions of relative nobodies, Vikki and Vance, etc) and things that could easily be lies (Shamrock Taphouse) or other minor details (company foundings) and of course, the need to protect copyright (calling the Washington Post the Capitol Post) - they don't actually need to predate the divergence. Especially the copyright-related stuff.
The propane company can be easily explained as starting with something else before moving to propane and changing the name - very common - while still retaining the same foundation date. Not a new concept, historically. And GASP, people had the idea of putting a geometric shape in a space. Just like the Mayans had to have the idea of building their pyramids from the Egyptians.
Once in a while you read way too much into video game convention and abstractions and try to draw very complex conclusions for very simple things that don't need answers.
As always, a well-puttogether video though.
Precisely what I intended to say, almost word for word - which is somewhat disturbing . . . AHHHH - GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
Yeah it's best to assume that the timeline were never one, AKA no Divergence, and instead they are just a different universe that surprisingly mirrored us for so long.
Processor race, Alien, occult elements, and so on, Reality itself is different.
Plus in the fallout Universe it's the Bernstein bears.
"It hasn't happened in our world... yet." *nervous chuckle*
About to age like a cheese
Wait does no one realize that the divergence doesn’t mean EVERYTHING is different many things could be the same especially small thing like weapons and music it just mean history wasn’t the same
Nate Kovalsky Exactly.
Prototype weapons in our own world like the g11 being "common" place in fallout is proof to that
And here I was thinking the divergence was when fallout became 3d.
lol I see what you did there, and I like your style.
Oxhorn I said it before and ill say it again. The time, careful planning and effort you put in your videos purely shows. You have a real talent for this and I just wanna say good job. I really enjoy your work.
"Little one, it’s a simple calculus. This universe is finite, its resources, finite… if life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist. It needs correcting."
Comrade “checking” and “controlling” life is an illusion. If it becomes the norm to do that, said procedure will also harbor flaws and need to be checked. And so on and so forth.
Life, by its very nature, is finite and will cease to exist. It’s not a matter of how, it’s when. Eventually it will return in a new form, and eventually cease to exist again, and so on and so forth, as it always has. That’s the cycle of existence. Birth, progression, digression, death, repeat.
An Internet User I don’t remember that being said in infinity war but ok.
Pump the hate brakes, Thanos.
I don’t feel so good mr Stark
Comrade I didn’t say it was. I was pointing out how pointless his ideology was.
The divergence didn't have major effects until 1947 So Many things after the divergence will develop in a similar manner because alot of the same people were alive leading to them doing similar things to real life especially the performers that were alive before the divergence. The geopolitcal issues of the 1960s would probably be very similar in both timelines and much of it was rooted in the second world war. Which would be why the Government of the United states overhauls its self in the 1960s seeming to be ratified in early 1969 before the moon landing. (the date is found on a plaque near the Massachusetts state house) I suspect that event played out to the point where something similar to the Cuban missle crisis motivated a massive constitutional overhaul. What ever it was led to the US and Soviet Union to deescalate as my favorite inconsistancy is The soviet union is still around in the 2070s and has diplomatic ties with the otherwise rabidly anti communist United States.
Did Nixon improve relations with the soviets instead of the chinese? Causing the soviets to enact similar reforms to what china has done? Is that why the U.S.S.A. uses a soviet lunar module? Its such a massive detail and we know nothing about it.
Also Oxhorn you say you read everything and I know most of my comments are long so if you're reading this thanks for actually taking the time to.
I love this idea, and it neatly ties up some of the loose ends.
My favorite Divergence Events are easily the songs, and No, it doesn' bother me that it isn't a fixed point
I wasn’t convinced at first the it was gradual but you convinced me it just makes sense great video very detailed as always Ox
FermaVenater ox is god
Another music problem would be some post-WW2 Elvis songs referenced by the Kings.
Austrian Leninist it could be possible that Elvis's post war music was simply unaffected by the divergence. But I love your idea, and if the divergence goes that far back in the fallout universe it could have some interesting consequences.
I don't see any of the songs as a problem. I don't see how a American culture in this alternate timeline could have stayed unchanged for 120 or so years. The different musical eras we are familiar with could still be there before the country reverted to some retro 50's imitation culture.
The Woolly Eel It stayed that way because they game makers wanted it that way. Really simple.
Isn’t it kinda weird that there’s not a single Elvis song in NV...
squillywilly That’s a shame.
The M-79 was nicknamed as the "thumper" due to the sound of firing it.
As always, an excellent video Oxhorn. As someone with experience in vacuum tubes and transistors, I would just like to point out that maybe the transistor was not so important because huge advancemts in the miniaturization of vacuum tubes (for an example, see the Nuvistron and similar). Also, computers could not be the digital, but might be analog, thus requiring much less components
Edit: source (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#Miniature_tubes)
Adam Electronic Engineering, more specifically a branch named Vacuum Electronics
EDIT: should you wish more detail, look for a paper called 'Vacuum Electronics in the 21st Century"
Adam electronics and math are strongly related, but most of the time you desing your circuits out of intuition. You only need one mathematic equation (Ohm's Law). Everything else is just understanding the circuit. If you like Electronics, dont let math discourage you!
A note on the transistor; calling it a new transistor doesn't mean that the transistor technology in and of itself is new. All this could mean, and likely does mean, is that a NEW transistor type has been released.
The Divergence isn't really the cause off all the strange stuff in Fallout; rather that it's a game based on the idea of the 1950's vision of the future, and you can't make those monsters/technological wonders realistically work.
Vacuum tubes have an edge over Transistors in that they are much more resistant to EMPs (in the 1970's, a report deduced that vacuum tubes have about 10 million times more hardness against EMP than integrated solid-state circuitry). This is why groups like NASA are currently attempting to make modern "Nano Vacuum tubes" to use in space travel and High-radiation areas.
To be very clear about The Fallout Bible, Brotherhood of Steel, and Fallout Tactics; the overarching events of Tactics are lore (but not minor details until specified at a later date), The Bibles are good references for events but are non-cannon/semi-cannon reference notes that are often subject to change, and FO:BoS is garbage and non-cannon.
Just a nit-pick here, but Picatinny Rails aren't used instead of iron sights. You can even see the iron sights on the M4 you show in the video.
You are very much right about Divergence being more than just one event, but I think this devil's-advocate argument would work well against your findings here; If the timeline separated in a single divergence period at some point in history (1500s may not yet be the earliest POD, they simply are the earliest we have proof of) then all of these inventions/creations are already able to be made later in the new timeline. There's no real accounting for how the divergent timeline's events would effect the manufacture of weapons, music, and architecture.
Also, You should visit the Fallout Lore Reddit page (r/falloutlore), as we have discussed this subject many times there.
It was a good listen watch while I made breakfast, good video C:
_ Wayfinder _ exactly right about the transistor. In the fallout universe the integrated circuit was never invented. Which is what allowed us to shrink technology. but transistors (vacuum tubes) certainly predate the second world war.
Edit: just googled and learned that, while functionally similar, vacuum tube "valves" were not considered transistors. So the transistor in fact did not predate ww2.
Troy Conner Yeah the idea was proposed in the 20's but not actually developed and built until 47. The field-effect transistor was patented in 26 but unbuildable with the tech of the time.
The most troublesome and lore-breaking moment in all of fallout is the nuka-cola bottle in the fallout4 cinematic intro.
The bottle briefly appears next to Nate's great-grandmother when she is with her son. This doesn't make sense since nuka-cola wouldn't be invented for a century
I think that one is actually easy to solve: It's Nate being told the story by his own mother since Nate physically doesn't look older than 30 based on the marketing.
I agree OX, the divergence happened on a gradient scale. Love the videos btw I'm binge watching all your stuff. Keep up the good work.
Have fun!
I did :)
Good one, Ox. I hope you are all moved in to your new home, nice and cozy. Looking forward to seeing your new digs in Scotch and Smoke Rings. ;-) Smart move to show your merch links. Marketing genius. BTW looked for the Railroad ending but can't find one you did. You did one for every other faction though.
Thanks Rob! I have not done the endings to Fallout 4 at all yet, but I did a video about Railroad morals here: czcams.com/video/FvZS0Irv6nk/video.html
I have to agree with Oxhorn's comment about the Fallout universe being an abberation of our universe.
The biggest reason is the multiple divergence points.
But I do have to agree with the semantics of using "divergence points". Many of the points stated in this video could be explained with the simple hand wave "circumstance conspired to have the event occur at a different time", but that is overly simplistic.
The best way to describe the divergence is that the Fallout universe is a slightly distorted mirror of our own. Think a universe completely ruled by the "Mandela Effect".
Electronics diverged around the late 1940s, while the "Zeta Aliens" diverged sometime before the 1960s and widespread sattelite coverage (unless the aliens have some type of cloaking not used in FO3).
The Fallout universe did not truly diverge until October 2077 and the apocalypse. Until that date, we should expect to see "echoes" from our world bleed over.
I agree with this, Ox. The divergence, while ww2 is a dramatic impact, the divergence has to have taken place over time, in multiple places in different days and years, with minor to major differences.
But we would have been right a home in the Fallout universe, right up to the end of world war 2, after that, it is jarringly different, thus: The Divergence.
Thatoneguy157 your right the divergence is over time but it was in full swing after world war 2 but some might say that there are many things that show that it doesn't but just because there is a divergence doesn't mean that we can't have some similarities like music
The Jerk of PlayStation Right. I like to think the music is one of the remenents of the old world, as they were the only thing really savable from the Great War. Thats why we hear so much 80’s and 90’s music. Also, because of the tech divergence, whereas a normal economy was less favored than a war economy, because of the consistant fear and paranoia of war. Which explains also why their war tech and weapons are so much more advanced than a majority of their appliances, except cars.
As I mentioned, they prioritized Militant power over Civilian pleasure. So a lot of tech advances were put to "How can we use this tech to advance the tech of the millitary?" And thus, they created a sort of test that put forth that all tech must prioritize the Military over the Civilian lifestyle. Which, we can all see how well that worked out.
4.39: You describe, the divergence must have happened sometimes in the 16th century - because we find this samurai in Mothership Zeta...
I beg to differ good sir. - this only means, there is an alien Spaceship somewhere in near earth orbit, we just never found in our reality.
Really sneaky those Zetans, aren't they. And... poor Samurai, sitting there frozen, never to be found...
The Fallout aliens, the Zetans, are even based around the real world "Greys", who supposedly come from the Zeta Reticuli system, hence the name Zetans. They are green in game since one of the 1950's stereotypes of aliens was "little green men".
Exactly. Who’s to say people haven’t been abducted all along throughout our own timeline. There are certainly enough stories about it.
Agree and would add - the divergence could have been caused by the aliens, at this 1947 date, in fact, and still would jive with the prior stuff (particularly if you accept that they had to rename some items in game for copyright issues). So, the aliens have been monitoring (and possibly changing) human history for hundreds of years, and perhaps finally considering humanity a threat (and their "space age technology") did something to cause the divergence in the first place.
But ultimately, it comes down to the fact that this is a game, and there's only so much that one game studio can put into recreating an entire universe.
Andale in Fallout 3 is a changed name for Annandale. Many of the stops used on the Metro line are changed versions of the original areas. I would hazard that far many more items are changed b/c of copyright issues than are because of a 1947 (or other year) divergence.
Also, the bit about the music - or items that appear in both universes - Ox- ya gotta remember that they never said that things could NOT exist in both worlds, and in fact do. So, in both universes, Frank Sinatra sang the same song.
I have a theory, what if the reason divergence actually happens is because the Zetans abducted people who were important to reach our timeline.
One can say that the intervention of Zetans was the prime reason of The Great War, whether intentionally or unintentionally is up to debate.
Robert Nett In all seriousness though, if the Xetans exist in the Fallout universe and if we assume they don't in ours, then the "divergence" must be literally billions of years old, going back to the formation of the Xetan homeworld and the evolution of their species -- and at that point, you may as well just call it a full alternate universe.
Man there is nothing better than waking up early, making some tea and listening to your videos wile playing fallout. Also you know what would be cool, porting the audio of your lore videos into fallout on various hollowtapes in the appropriate places.
Its easy. The first Nuclear Explosion split the Universe in one Version where its frowned upon and one where its praised
Thats actually a really good theory considering the splitting of an atom which would suggest by the word 'splitting' that something was divided into two and the existence of the children of atom and their religious beliefs.... it works as a thematic connection within the narrative. I like the idea of it from theosopical standpoint. Maybe the children of atom are right and this fallout universe does have a different god, one created by the splitting of that atom.
+AngelRaivan 8579 "a different god" yeah you might wan't to get rid of the word "different" as it makes no sense in this context
No because our 2077 will be different from theirs. They still have black and white tvs
@@AngelRaivan8579-xh4fr Wait, so the children of atom aren't just irradiated lunatics? Well, they are either way really.
Perhaps *THE* Divergence is different than *A* Divergence. Perhaps *THE* Divergence is a big 180 degree turn. But other Divergences, such as Vikki & Vance are smaller, 5 degree turns.
To quote the Twins from Bioshock: Constants and Variables
OMG Just yesterday I was asking myself, wondering about all those things and here you are today making this video. Do you read minds? You're doing an awesome job! Best wishes!
Oxhorn
Could You do the Full Story on The First Fallout Game and the Second Fallout Game.
He has to do New Vegas first, and likely Fallout 3 in order to then do Broken Steel, the last dlc
I suggest watching the Shoddycast series "The Storyteller". It focuses on 1 and 2
Do you even watch half of his live streams that he has uploaded after they happened?
He said so many times that his rig can't run the older games and is trying to figure out away to make them stable enough to work.
Valor0dragon, still, isnt it possible to find an older working computer or at least find footage from other sources
he'll have to give credit where credit is due but it cant be that difficult
I've wondered why he hasn't done 1 & 2 many times, and I must admit I've watched VERY few of his Live Streams. Those I have watched, I only watched parts as I work 3rd Shift and have to watch the recordings.
Thank you for answering RedPawn 13's question (and by extent, mine as well).
Amazing attention to detail, especially on the marksman carbine, glad I wasn't the only one who noticed.
I would also add in the Service Rifle which is clearly based off the M-16 which brought in the use of plastics and polymers in firearms, and those materials weren't really used until the late 50's - early 60's, but are oddly missing from the environment which is still heavily wood, metal, and concrete. If plastics were invented, why hadn't they become more widely used especially if the military had already started to see the usefulness in the them.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about the _very_ modern weapons from Fallout 2, such as the SA80 from the 80s and the FN P90 from '91.
IoKnight He is very wrong on many of his examples in this video.
Why would transistors not existing have any effect on wether a gun from our timeline could be manufactured?
Or if the same songs from our timeline could be produced?
Who knows, maybe he never tried the old games.
@@SwedishEmpire1700. Except that's not true. He's done a full series on Fallout 1, another on Fallout 2, and has even done Fallout Tactics.
This video simply deserves a round of applause from all Fallout enthusiasts. As usual, your video was as well thought out and delivered as one of your others, but the real thing that made this so good was how much research you put into what is a huge issue in the Fallout community. Frankly, I haven't seen a claim about The Divergence so well researched and proved like this, and you have almost definitely found the true nature of the Divergence itself. You are my favorite Fallout youtuber! can't wait for 76
I always reconciled it thus: That Fallout takes place in a fundamentally different dimension with divergent physical laws from ours. In this universe, nuclear technologies were the path of least resistance when it came to scientific advancement, and so were explored and exploited far more fully than the computer/microchip revolution we experienced.
The rest is just similar but different, individual instances easily written off thanks to it being another dimension.
I believe the Children of Atom in FO3 discuss how they believe that the splitting of the atom makes a new universe. While it doesn't explain everything perfectly, I always viewed the Divergence as a mirror universe formed from a nuclear test/the bombing of Japan. And of course, in this sense, all of the fission bombs going off in the Great War would've produced many universes, explaining the diversity of choice we get in Fallout games
Now that you have said this it has changed my view and it makes so much sense now that I look at it. It must have happened slowly over time instead of a on the spot type of thing.
Thanks for the content Oxhorn keep up the good work
Can we just agree that that the divergence happened when that samurai got abducted?
All of this happened because someone decided not to get up from the bed one morning and missed the chance of the life time.
You also forgot the mention the Markmen carbine has a magpul stock from the mid 2000s.
TroopperFoFo if was obviously invented in the 2000s then, a divergence doesn't mean EVERYTHING is different. A lot of stuff still happened on time, some later on but still happened.
I need muh magpull
So? why should that matter??? could not the stock have been invented in both universes??? just because it's after the divergence does not mean that it strictly MUST be different.... some things are wildly different, some slightly and some the same. What is so hard to understand here? why are so many people not getting this concept??
dude , the divergence is pretty much a giant butter fly affect that effects everything in the far future
ACOG as well
Excellent video as always. Here's my take on it...there is still a single divergence point, where the two realities split from each other and become distinct entities. The standard branch approach to explaining this is not very helpful here, basically looking for a big "Y" intersection where they break off. If you picture it more like driving down the road it makes more sense.
So you're in your car driving down a two lane street. You have room left or right in your lane to move around potholes and bicycles, but you're still in that lane. Driving further down, the road opens into a four lane road. And that point you move left or right and pick a lane. You can still move between them and there's still room to move in them. If effect this makes each timeline more like a spectrum. Each has some variation while still being the same defined area, but an eventual boundary to cross that is too far to still be the same lane.
"Some things are different so nothing else can ever be the same in that universe!!!11!"
Oof very intelligent
Loved this, Ox! Congrats on the move : )
0:18 Honestly its a pretty good way to transport information in fallout
Radio aren't to complicatied to create, you don't need to much infrastructure to use it (compared to for example TV), and are already pretty spreed through common peopel. Honestly can't think of any better way to comunicate in world like this
*it's good to see sweets in action again*
Dear oxhorn,
I think that the reason there are things from our world in the fallout world is because the fallout world has a small divergence, but it still has many things (the songs included) that we have in our world. It's also possible that, because fads and trends go in and out of style with time, the songs and other 50's and 60's each setting, songs, and other environmental aspects may have been because 1) these trends became popular again, 2) the copyright avoidances were simply different versions and the actual sodas were invented later, while the brand was invented when the date stated (kinda like when coca-cola was created on the 1800's but the actual coke we know today was made much later when cocaine was illegal
Pipboys seems so advanced and cool, but then you realize the phone has what he pipboy has and even more, but can’t heal you and stop time
Hate to break it to you but they have collored TVs. As you can see in the trailer for Fallout 76 it has collors. There is a little button in the lower right corner that says collor. It propabbly costs mor eso no one usually uses it but it is there
Also the Mariposa military base had a color monitor in the room with the FEV vats.
Holsp Novac also had colored TVs
Yeah there are more but the 76 is now the most known i suppose. It is a bit wierd that not many people actually think about seeing a collored tv thou
"Schoelt" is pronounced "Shelt." Could be a Fallout equivalent to the "Shell" oil corporation of our world.
On weapons, a couple examples you overlooked: the XL70E3 from Fallout 2 - which is a prototype variant of the SA80 line of rifles which are currently in service with the British Armed Forces, the SA80 entered service with the British Army in 1985, but the specific prototype of the XL70E3 was designed in 1970.
There's also the G11 which was tested from 1967 until the 1990s
Then there's the Desert Eagle, which is both an actual weapon in Fallouts 1 and 2, as well as the inspiration for the 10mm pistol design in Fallouts 3, New Vegas and 4.
You mentioned picatinny rails, however another thing to point out with New Vegas is the Service Rifle - which is clearly supposed to be a fictionalized mix of an AR-10 and an AR-15 - both weapons designed in the 1950s - however, the Assault Carbine, which is depicted as the higher level automatic version of the weapon, is clearly supposed to be a variant of the AR-15 carbines, specifically the M4A1 and Colt Commando carbines... while the AR-15 family is about the right age for Fallout lore, the M4 is not, the first model entered service in 1991, the CAR-15/XM177E2 which is very similar in concept and design, was introduced in 1970, but it didn't see widespread use outside of special forces.
(Hence the experimental prefix on the model designnation, and the unofficial nickname of the commando carbine)
It should also be noted that a bunch of weapons in Fallout 4 also appear to have picatinny rails, particularly the Combat Rifle.
In fairness, Picatinny rails aren't an exactly new concept, notably the Germans designed a strikingly similar pattern of rails for their assault rifles later in WW2, they were mostly experimental, but they did see limited combat service... from what I know the FG-42, STG-44 and even a few models of the Kar98, received these small rails on the side, which the compatible scopes could be slid onto in a similar fashion to modern picatinny rails.
The Russians also used a similar optic mounting rail on their AK line of rifles for many years.
For me is how we started to use nuclear energy for pretty much everything but we still have a resources war for oil... :/
jobanh7ify I think America was one of the only countries to use nuclear power widespread but the other countries needed oil.
5:50 or the are zetans in real life that Bethesda knows about and this has been a sneaky cry for help this entire time.
fun fact: vim! is likely based on Moxie, which IS maine's real-world local soda. also, it's really good. I love it. it's bitter, but it can grow on you pretty quick.
The divergence could’ve happened a thousand years ago and we wouldn’t know
Ox don't forget the functional BFG! xD
Speaking of weapon divergence, Fallout 1, 2, and tactics have guns from Heckler & Koch in it. But H&K was founded in 49, many of their famous guns were designed even later
So what you saying fallout had piraile dimensions.
Elder Maxson parallel....?
Thats what i meant, sorry.
I don't think you can consider any of these to 'break' divergence. Small differences will exist within all parallel universes, small choices made differently. These are all part of the same divergence, occurring at different times.
The Divergence is simply the point where it all went VERY off kilter. It refers to the moment that more or less caused The Great War.
TheDapperTapper no, it refers to the point in history where the human industrialization strayed from the real path.
Sure, that's what it refers to. But it also covers everything Ox brings up.
Aliens (As far as know so far) have not been abducting people. Unless you propose to prove to me that aliens exist orbiting the earth right now, you have to see my point at least that far.
"The Divergence" as it's dictionary definition would tell you, simply means where things begin to go in different directions. Industrialization, technology, music, culture. It all went in very different directions. And not at any single point in time.
The Fallout Universe - Where portable fusion-powered technology, robots, and plasma weapons are commonplace but colored television was never developed. It kind of reminds me of that scene from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where they land on a planet where aerosol cans were invented before the wheel.
This is something I thought of during your Divergence Livestream Ox.
When considering a single divergence... What if the "divergence" is the forced perpetuation of the 50's culture and any lore breaking 80's/90's/2000's stuff is self correcting timeline events that the original singular "50's divergence" tries to knock down to reassert the 50's quasiculture.
This would be a clever solution if not a horrifying in its implications. Remember this is the setting with a lot of Lovecraft references as well as things which are outright supernatural. Like in fallout 2, the game creators sneak in vampires pretending to be mutants hiding after the war, or that one mine in fallout 4 which was a cover for a company to excavate a forgottwn city.