Ted bundy’s brother had a great relationship with him and didnt knew the shit he did, but at the moment ted got arrested and the brother found out the charges, he cut him off and refused to speak of him on positive terms, going as far as to say “no matter what good he did to me it isnt enough for me to ignore the pain of even one victim” so yeah ashton you really dropped the ball here.
Yes, and he was a younger brother by many years who adored his big brother as a key figure in his life, who took him on camping trips etc.. The realisation, and ending the relationship was a huge loss of the big brother he had.
OMG someone on tiktok compared this to Ted Bundy’s case They explained how they could understand that just because people do bad in their lives it doesn’t take away all the good like Ted volunteering for suicide hot lines. He literally murdered god knows how many women but he was a good guy cause he stopped people from offing themselves through phone calls …LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
The brother actually turned him in when he realized the manifesto seemed really familiar. He recognized it could be his brother and courageously went to the FBI and said the unibomber might be my brother. An agonizing but brave decision.
Yup, I noticed that too. Maybe she just didn't want to say; I don't know if those women are speaking truth, but my heart goes to all, real, victims. Girl can only attest what she seen. It's hard to prove those kind of crimes anyway.
@@fargotua13 Yeah but it's pretty hard to get convicted of an assault that happened 20 years ago, I'm assuming there's pretty decent evidence if he's getting put away for 30 years
@@rcm_kem I hope there is a pile of strong evidence because he was convicted... Mila was not the main witness, so she has the right to be precise, she can only arrest what she saw.
@@fargotua13 sure, but watching back on old interviews, it really doesn't feel like that's what she saw. The guy betting someone of age to surprise tongue her during a kiss scene when she was 14 isn't super "brother figure"ly. And talking about how punctual he was at work isn't really relevant when deciding the sentence of a convicted rapist
I had a cousin convicted of statutory rape. His parents asked my dad to write a character letter. My dad said "absolutely not." And that's a family member who my dad watched grow up. It's not hard to just... not defend rapists.
Especially when they already made all their money and have now children. His livelihood is no longer on this man’s hands. Ashton specifically is stinky rich. He didn’t have to defend his friend at this point of his career unless he has also dirt on him and is not on his best interest for his friend to be apprehended.
That's impressive, good for your dad. I can imagine there might have been a lot of familial pressure on him. Not sure what I would do if I were ever asked. It doesn't really matter if a person was a good guy to you, if they were convicted of any kind of rape they clearly weren't good to everyone.
@@beccf.s.8012Aaron Smith Levin of Growing up in Scientology has said that despite not being a Scientologist, Ashton was heavily intertwined with the church due to his friendship with Danny. He is fairly certain that the church has dirt on Ashton that could ruin his career. It’s also been alleged that these letters were filed by Danny’s attorney to be under seal so that they wouldn’t be read by anyone and that’s probably what the lawyer told Ashton and Mila when they wrote the letters. Also it’s been heavily implied that Ashton was present in a few instances where Danny had committed his crimes, it’s even alleged that Ashton was in the hotel room next door while Danny was r*ping Jane Doe 4 or 5.
A lot of family members often rally around abusers in their ranks. I've known people disowned by their families for coming forward, while the abuser was embraced and protected.
I totally agree. Their argument is "it's better to have a freed alcoholic r@pist dad, than a dad the kid could visit safely in jail, and stop visiting whenever she wants"
it’s like referring to female victims as “she was someone’s mother/daughter/sister/ etc.” like their “value” is not as an individual human being, but via their relationship to someone else. - a female’s value is related to her being someone’s mother, wife, daughter - a possession - danny’s is as a father, provider, role model, blah blah blah. revolting
It gets even worse, Masterson's ex has released a bunch of information about Kutcher and, if true, he's just as bad as Danny. I think he only did the foundation to soften the blow if/when this all came out.
I used to know a man who knocked up at least three minors AND who once ran into a burning building to save a family. Monsters can still do good things. That doesn't make them safe people that we should support.
I was SAed at 17 by a girl i was friends with, when i came out no one believed me, saying how " girls dont do that" and her friends even added me to a gc to make fun of me saying "If she did this to you, why didnt she do this to me??" Its insane how these are the same people going around saying "Believe victims no matter what", yet when its their friend, all of a sudden the victim is a liar...
I hate this. Just because girls do it at a lower rate than men doesn't mean they do it, doesn't make it less horrific, and doesn't make it not a crime! This is absolutely horrific and for whatever it's worth I believe you.
@@monyomii I hope you have or are able to find non-toxic, supportive friends who are there for you. No one deserves this kind of treatment. You are a human being entitled to dignity, respect, and having your consent matter. I know it can be awful to have people call you a liar. I was raped by a teacher when I was in kindergarten and a lot of people didn't believe me. Some still don't (I had one person tell me that since I'm a guy, I must have 'liked' it; creepiest thing I've ever heard). But you know the truth, the truth matters, and what happened to you matters, because you as a person matter. The opinions of these assholes doesn't matter, because they're bad people. They can make fun of you all they like, but at the end of the day you're a good person who tried to tell them about a predator in their midst and they're bad people who are enabling a predator. You didn't do anything wrong. Sorry for the long comment, I just feel like it's important that you know that. You're important, you're innocent, and you didn't deserve that.
This truly hits home!!! It makes you look at them completely different. When it’s someone they THINK they know, now all of a sudden they need to investigate and it’s no way possible their “friend” would do something so foul.
@@rozeskif Regardless of your opinion of him, Michael Jackson wasn't a convicted rapist. Yes, you may question his character and the thought process of the parents but MJ was not convicted in the court of law like Danny Masterson.
My mom did this. She knew and knows that my dad is a molesting pedophile BY HIS OWN CONFESSION and she stays with him, defends him, and protects him from the law. People are endlessly evil sometimes.
It's easy to say that knowing that Danny won't be getting out of prison until well after said children are full-grown adults. Curious to see if Ashton would leave his adult daughter alone in a room with Danny. I guess we'll find out in 30 years.
I've never understood the logic of saying, "Well, they were very nice to me, and we got along just fine. They would never do such a thing", which is a total slap in the face to the victims.
Right? Abusers are oftentimes superficially charming, socially manipulative, and extremely well liked, which ends up being even more isolating for those who suffer them with everyone around them singing their praises...
The logic is simple. They see celebrities. They live in a mental space where other famous people are the only other people that matter to them. Everyone else is just a peasant or a pauper /servant to them. Fame and wealth and power rewire your brain
I genuinely don't understand how the concept of someone being a rapist yet not raping every single person they come into contact with is somehow hard to grasp. Why are these people inserting themselves into a situation that does not involve them whatsoever?
“I met Jeffrey Dahmer and he never murdered me! Your honor, please, he could never have committed these crimes!” Like seriously why tf are they bringing character evidence into this. His “character” has very little to do with how harshly he should be punished for his crimes; the nature and impact of his crimes should be what decides that. Unless he was personally offering to be celibate the rest of his life or something I don’t think there’s much of anything that counterbalances the crimes enough to reduce his sentence at all.
@@sideways5153this wasn’t character evidence used in the trial. This type of letter is written after a person has been convicted and are typically not released publicly, but rather are intended for the judge to consider when determining the sentence.
I hate how Mila deliberately phrased it that their hearts go out "to anyone who's ever been a victim" WITHOUT apologizing to the victims OF DANNY MASTERSON -- the people they directly harmed. It still implies that maybe Danny's victims weren't really victims, which is the implication that people are upset about. It makes me really angry. Danny is already sentenced. He got the mandatory sentence. What would it have hurt them -- or even Danny -- for them to apologize to the actual people Danny assaulted and whom they harmed with their stupid letters? It adds insult to injury. Or, really, it adds more insult and injury to insult and injury.
I wish they would have just straight up said that they don't believe he did it instead of waffling around that they believe in the justice system and care about victims.
@@BelligerentBarbie My mom is a pediatric forensic psychologist. You'd be horrified to know how many people personally know a victim and a rapist and side with the rapist. It's truly incomprehensible to me how callous people can be to one another.
@@morganqorishchi8181 I think it’s because many people like things they way they are, to the point where they will get angry and violent when things don’t stay the same. So when awful shit like that happens in a friends group, they want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn’t happen, even going after the victim for not letting it go.
I believe the church of Scientology would have forced them to make the letters anyways. That "Church" *LOVES* to harass people and protect. IDK if that helps you feel better, but I just want you to know this is just the tip of the iceberg. Their psychos. They stalk and assualt former members and kill their pets. Celebrities join because they know their paying for a community's protection; (yes they have to pay of shit ton of money). But by the time celebs want to leave its too late. The church makes them divulge their darkest secrets, than they use it against the people in church if they try to leave or need to be controlled. They also dont believe in medication which is how John Travoltas son died.
"He has always been nice to me!" always makes me go "well duh, you're not the type of person this guy was preying on"... like, that is so not a testament to the goodness of anyone ever 😂
I remember when Ellen Degeneres was getting called out for a toxic workplace. Ashton made a post saying "she was always nice to me when I was on the show"
Even Bundy was described as nice and charismatic and the last person you'd suspect. I think part of the problem is we have this colloquial image of a monster as standing out negatively by being weird or ugly, which is very rarely true.
@@charamia9402 Yeah, like. Jim Jones was also described as nice and polite and a good man. Fucker ended up forcing people to drink poisoned flavor-aid, sometimes at gunpoint, and literally gunned the rest of his congregation down. Like maybe giving people fame and power is drawing in bastards, so _weird_ /s
I had a very close friend of mine whom I've known from the age of 14 years old on into my late 20's. He was basically like a brother to me and I cared so much for him, but the second I found out that he was arrested for physically abusing his 3 month old son, he was dead to me. Once you've done something that evil, there's no coming back from that. It baffles me when people (celebrities or not) CHOOSE to support or further associate with those they know did despicable things. It's so sickening.
EXACTLY choose to support the victims. Let the abusers go to jail and get what they deserve. I’m so sorry to the child who was abused. You must feel somewhat traumatized by the event (even just hearing about kids being abused is so awful). I hope u have better people around u who will always stand for the right thing ❤
I’m really sorry for what happened. There is a difference, someone who is arrested isn’t guilty. Else we wouldn’t have trails. Abuse is so powerful and sadly people abuse that to tar people.
Yeah my ex was charged with neglect and aggravated assault against his five-month-old and his wife defended him and tried to say he just had PND. Unfortunately she probably has no idea that he's also a pedophile because his parents pretend it didn't happen and he was a minor at the time. I can't imagine a man hurting my baby and then turning around and defending him.
Does Mila HONESTLY think that, if he had opportunity, he wouldn't have done the same thing to her? The only thing that probably saved her was the fact that she was a high profile celebrity, and he would NOT get away with it, had it been someone like her.
The thing is, in forensic psychology, there are some men who assault others and not their friends... and they usually assault their friends' children instead. Even she honestly thought he wouldn't hurt her, MA'AM YOU HAVE A CHILD! If anything her thinking that makes it worse, not better.
Even if he never did that to her, Mila was very young in the show, so we have no clue what happened behind the scenes since the interviews are very eerie
@@cirquedefreak7329apparently there was some weird stuff- not a 70s show fan so i can't say what off the top of my head but i'm pretty sure there was some romantic and maaaybe sexual stuff btwn mila and danny? or another male adult co-star. correct me if im wrong tho
The biggest factor is that Mila is not a scientologist. In scientology they say that everything that happens to you is because you were not strong enough to repel it, and they actively work to bury any assault charges or illegal activities from their high profile members. If he had attacked Mila she would have no reason to go to the police, whereas the women he assaulted lost their entire lives and were harassed for twenty years because of scientology.
What pissed me off about Ashton's letter was he said "I know the victims wants justice but I hope my testament is taken into consideration" so he's saying I know the victims want justice but I hope you listen to me and give him a light sentence. Ashton and Mila should be ashamed. Publicly they're victim advocates but privately they're begging for leniency for their convicted rapist bestie.
I was SA-ed at 18 in college by the guy I was seeing at the time. We shared our friend group. Almost all of them were asked to write these letters for the case. It was so hurtful to see people I loved paint this man who did awful things to me as a saint because he was nice to them. Thank you so much for pointing out all the ways this is absolutely disgraceful and hurtful.
I hope the scumbag who did that to you paid the price for it, I hope your “friends” have lived with regret, and I hope you have found as much peace/clarity/happiness as possible in the time since your horrific ordeal. I can’t imagine it ever goes away in your mind but hopefully you have a strong support system in your family/friend circle. If not, this internet stranger supports you wholeheartedly.
My heart breaks for you and I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that. I have gone through something similar but was too scared to take legal action or get police involved for this very reason. I just honestly wanted to forget everything. You are strong for standing up to that monster who did those things to you. I know I don't know you but I am so proud of you. ❤
I don’t care how important you are in my life, you are DEAD to me if you do anything as heinous as this. Why would anyone want to keep someone like that around?
Honestly, I wouldn’t hold it against them if they had just decided to continue having a relationship with DM, writing him letters and such. I mean, I wouldn’t, but the person he was to AK and MK was real, too. But this was so much grosser: they actually argued he shouldn’t go to prison so he could continue to raise a daughter. Because rapists are great role models! Gross.
@@monabear7287he hid his Evil behavior from them and betrayed their trust that he was a good guy. The actions he did speak louder than the sweet lies he told people.
If you've been in a situation where an important person in your life committed a heinous crime and you were able to completely cut them out of your life physically and emotionally, good for you. But if you haven't been through that, it's gonna be very difficult. The idea that someone you love committed a heinous crime is going to be difficult to deal with. You'll want to believe that the accusations are not true, no matter how damning the evidence is, and if the accusations are 100% true, you will always have an irrational feeling in the back of your mind that will be in denial of it. If they will someday be released from jail, you're going to have an emotional conflict on whether seeing them would be justified.
Their “apology” was giving “sorry you were offended”. I’m glad the victims got justice and I hope they were retraumatized by anyone who tried to defend that monster
@@justkiddin84 He’ll be in his 70s. He’ll get parole. It’s 30 years, assuming he makes it that long. Or doesn’t get commuted by a Scientology friendly Governor or compassionate release for ill health
That would be an entirely different 70s show. I can't believe they wrote letters for him. Obviously, the person you knew was a Lie. The fact that they won't admit that is what bothers me.
My husband and friend both work in jails in different parts of the country. They agree that the men convicted of rape & sexual assault are ALWAYS appear to be the kindest, most thoughtful, and charismatic inmates. I asked my friend why she thought this was, and she (chillingly!) said they had to be in order to commit those crimes…
1 million percent YES. No one will let their guard down with a known creep ( at least I hope not). These hidden deviants are on a whole ‘nother level smh . Edit to add - ESPECIALLY the ones who prey on children
Yea and most date rapes are committed by people the victim knew and not creepy strangers waiting in a dark alleyway. They are nice and friendly to gain trust. Most are manipulative and know what to say in any situation.
You'd think with Ashton and Mila being advocates for victims they'd know that a rapist has to be nice and charming. Danny didn't grab random women off the street, these were women that he knew.
The way people treat Megan after she was the one who got shot has been absolutely disgusting. I love that she just let it roll off her and continued to have an amazing career. If Bogos isn't stuck in your head, are you really even living in 2023?
Exactly the same thing that happened to Janet Jackson. It's always black women who has it the hardest. Absolutely disgusting the number of violent black men abuser's are still successful in the industry.
The misogynoir is really hard not to see. If someone said a mean thing about a white celeb, the internet would be up in arms. People don't even seem to ever bring up Megan's situation. They probably would only pay the story any mind if she actually passed away. Thank god she didn't.
Thank you! What Megan went through as completely disgusting and it was mainly by black ppl. However, as a huge fan of Meg's I can attest to thr fact that it has affected her greatly as a matter of fact. 😢 She has talked about how it's affected her. Anyway, I'm glad that's she's moving passed this horrible ordeal & continue to have success.
Ohhh and it made me sick when male rappers who were all "Team Tory" then flipped once the sentencing hit. Like? Bro that is not the enlightened move you think it is. You've already outed yourself as an asshat.
Considering how difficult it is to get a conviction for SA too, and how LONG Danny has been sentenced for, makes it VERY clear he DEFINITELY did some seriously HEINOUS things as well, so that really just adds salt into the wound with Ashton and Mila defending him.
At most, depending on the stats you look at, 2% of SAs result in convictions. I have no doubt that this man did not only what he's accused of but also probably committed terrible crimes we're unaware of that he hasn't faced consequences for.
It's always hard to deal with SA cases which happened years in the past because how you even gather evidence for it in the first place? And how you make sure it's genuine evidence? It also doesn't help many malicious actors nowadays do fake SA reports to harm someone they don't like or can get something out of.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino With all due respect, the rates of false reports are...very low. And the rates of assault or rape that go without an arrest or have an arrest that never goes to prison are astronomically high. Adding to that, the majority of rape and SAs aren't even reported to the police out of fear of not being taken seriously or fear of retribution from their assailant among other reasons. I'm a lot more likely to believe a victim because statistically they're probably telling the truth. I don't think the rate of false reports out of all the ones reported, which doesn't even account for the actual rates of SA and rape, being literally in the single digits of percentages makes up for the fact that an even lower percentage of rapists ever see a day of prison for their crime. Everyone can claim it's a false report or it's fake but that doesn't mean it is. The amount of false reports is wildly blown out of proportion. Which makes sense considering the patriarchal tendancy to defend men and rapists against all odds.
@@kiralonely1307speaking from personal experience and from what i have heard of a friend, their family member and other survivors of SA (CSA specificly in all these cases) i have spoken to online it is extremely difficuilt to even start processing it, let alone talk about it. Most of us didnt even realize what really happened to us until years have passed. Then add on top that if you report you have to deal with the police, who i as a trans woman can only see as predators themselves, and the court basicly retraumatizing you by interrogation. It is not suprising reports are so low. I really can not stress how important is is to take people and especialy children seriously when they talk about this.
I hate this shit. I was a witness in civil court for a friend getting out of an abusive relationship trying to get her dog back. I remember looking over at all the "character witnesses" of the abuser, all of them looking at US with disgust when we would say things we saw and experienced. I remember being so mad sitting there thinking "how can you be defending this person so hard when you're literally hearing the shit they've put this poor girl and her dog through?" When I see celebrities defending some very obviously guilty people, I see that group of people with nothing but malice in their eyes while I testified on behalf of my friend.
I've been in the same position and the exact same thing happened. The "friend" group rallied around the child r*pist and said the child and his mom lied. Ultimately he was only charged and found guilty of stalking the mom and the child r*pe charges got dropped. The enablers are just about as dangerous and harm society as the perp.
Im not sure who said this but I heard somewhere that abusers groom their character witnesses just as carefully as they do their victims. In many cases, people really dont see their friends or loved ones doing this. I think a great example is the comedian Daniel Sloss talking about when one of his friends assaulted another one of his friends and while he plays off the comedy, he notes that he would have never guessed the guy was like that and if he did, he never would have introduced him to his female friend knowing she could get hurt.
Dangerous nonsense. Character letters / letters of support are supremely critical, especially for us non-celebrities. It's not about the victim(s) and it shouldn't be, not with our draconian justice system, where by being convicted you can be sent to a prison where you may find yourself being raped and tortured. From your anecdote, you can kind of see why: you had nothing but hate for the defendant; in a fair system, that's not the attitude we want judges to have during sentencing. It's important that a judge hears from the defendant's friends, family, co-workers, etc. when they're deciding how much prison time they're about to do. Without the letters of support, judges would only really hear about the defendant via the prosecutor & those that accused them. It's not an attempt to overturn the ruling (too bad, by the time letters of support go to the judge, the accused have already been convicted), it's just the last opportunity for the judge to hear about the guilty in some other fashion than the arguments made by the prosecution. Funnily enough, having read the letters now, I think they probably played a roll in Masterson getting the full-shebang, the whole 30 years. They harp a lot on him being a good anti-drug guide when they were young, while not considering the fact that he used drugs & alcohol to rape these women. I bet you that put a bad taste in the judge's mouth, made sure he got the full sentence.
A grown man tried to assault me when I was 15. He had been told to stay away from me after making comments to me and even talking to my mom about me. In the aftermath of the attempted assault a woman defended him cause he never did anything to her and was nice to her. This woman never stopped to think he never said/did anything to her cause she was a grown woman with a husband and 4 kids, she wasn't young, she wasn't a child. Edit: I'm reading the comments and it's sad how common this is.
There is a serious problem with the mindset around sexual assault. It illicits disgust immediately…but it’s almost like people focus their disgust toward the victims. I have seen firsthand the process people will go through in their minds trying to defend an abuser. It makes me sick.
I wish y'all had all had me around y'all. I snitched on the cousin I was closest to when I was 19 and he got 10 years for grape. There's an entire side of my family that doesn't talk to me and says I ruined his life. He was out of jail and building his life and last year someone put 6 in him (🔫) and ended the world's suffering. His mother says I contributed to it because 20+ years ago, when he was on the run he came to our house and I heard another cousin talk about how he was running from the law, and I went to the cops and sang like a whole opera of canaries. I legit thought I was doing what everyone else would've done. Yet never once have I regretted it
My mum always says to never defend family, friends or anyone if there’s proof that they’ve done something wrong. They betrayed you and your support by doing the wrong thing in the first place. This is what these celebs need to remember. Even if they’re you’re friend, if they’ve done the wrong thing, they need to be punished.
Feel like "done something wrong" is way too nebulous lol. I would absolutely defend a family member stealing baby formula to feed a hungry infant, despite the law and many others who would say it's wrong to steal. My mother always put it like "I'm not bailing you out if you get yourself into trouble."
I understand completely why Topher Grace wanted nothing to do with these people. He's the only 70s show star who didn't write a defense letter and the cast has implied he wasnt friendly with them, but he seems like the only decent guy from the show
wilmer and laura didn’t write any defense letters. i don’t believe they’ve said anything currently on the situation but are problematic on their own (wilmer has dated several 17 year olds and laura is a former scientologist, i believe she left)
@@tiffanywardrop Being a former scientologist (yes she left) is about as problematic as being a former fry cook. Plenty of regular people get roped into cults, do nothing of note, then leave the cult. Especially when the cult is religion or fronts as religion. Nothing to say about Wilmer though, have heard stories he's just kind of a shitty person in general. I would personally have avoided any public involvement in the situation myself were I in her shoes. Nothing she could say is going to make the victims' lives better and simply not writing a letter has already moved her far way away from the nonsense Ashton and Mila pulled, who as far as I'm aware aren't scientologists and never were? Edit: Read some comments Ashton was involved with Scientology in some way? Idk much about his or Mila's history outside of acting gigs.
People who do drugs are bad but a serial rapist who used drugs for his crimes deserves our love and compassion??? These people are unbelievable but.... unfortunately people behave like this all the time for their friends.
Danny Masterson himself is a raging alcoholic and needed medical intervention when he was first incarcerated. They are, of course, referring to smoking weed, yet when it came to making money, it was okay to portray a character that smoked pot. Hypocrisy and psychopathy go hand in hand.
Not surprising. Her sister was forced to have an incestuous relationship with their father for years, until she got pregnant by him, and Bijou has mocked her, too
My favourite part about these character letter is the fact they're basically trying to make the judge feel bad about themselves for doing their actual job, like "shame on you, judge, now this poor little girl will grow up without her daddy, so cruel of you to do that"
I honestly couldn't help but fucking laugh when I saw that. Not because I think it's actually funny. It's just that fucking pathetic. I'm sorry, but, Dear ol' Danny should have thought of that before he raped multiple women. His daughter is better off without her rapist father in her life
Yes the point of character statements is to give a more general perspective of a person's behavior *from personal accounts* of people who were around them in order to sway the judge one way or the other during sentencing. They do exist for good reason, even if this isn't a situation where they mattered. I didn't follow this mess closely so I don't know if any opposing character statements were provided, but this is common practice. A mother condemns the actions of her child for example but paints a sympathetic and understandable picture of *how* they got to where they were, the victim's mother condemns the actions of the perpetrator and paints a sympathetic and understandable picture of how their actions negatively impacted the victim and those the victim was close with and cared about, as well as how severely.
Dude if my friend were convicted of this, I’d be writing the letter of “they had me totally fooled and they deserve to be put away for life” like you have to be able to accept that everything you thought you knew about the person was a cover…. Sucks!! Great video
My dad was a character witness in a trial against one of his friends back in the 80's who SA'd a 16 year old. He made exactly that point in court: this man fooled everyone about this and other things, he WILL reoffend if allowed to walk. The man's brother also testified against him. Seriously, it's not hard to be decent about this.
@@MsMizz1 RIGHT?! Like I can't comprehend finding out your friend did some disgraceful shit like that and then still trying to bat for them? Especially when there's proof?!
This has been making me think a lot about Demi Moore, Ashton's first wife. She was really open in her memoir about how she was sexually assaulted as a teenager and how she didn't feel like she could trust any of the adults around her to take care of her or believe her, and how the experience completely changed her life and still affects her. I don't think she ever ended up legally pursuing a case against her assaulter. I can't imagine going through something like that and then later in life having your ex husband defend a rapist's "good character" like this.
Danny Masterson received a vigorous defense, including decades of the Church of Scientology running interference for him. He suffers no mental impairment that would impact his ability to know that his actions were illegal. This was not a nonviolent crime or a crime of poverty that might warrant leniency. His friends could have just let the system play out here and not tried to intervene on his behalf, unless they’re afraid of the Church of Scientology. And I don’t know why Kutcher or Kunis didn’t know the letters would be part of the public record. Dumbasses.
Abusers are WELL KNOWN for being super great to their friends. That's why so many doubt victims when they come forward. Because of the mask the abusers wear among their inner circle. That's the game. You would never think these people are awful because they aren't awful TO YOU. But you're not their target. That's why.
When I was raped he confessed doing it to me to our entire friend group, and they all decided the best was to forgive him and side with him. My ex best friend ended up marrying him after the fact too. Keep in mind this was a person I dated for 3 years, starting at 15. He was also 3 years older than me.
I'm really sorry that happened. They all need more education that this shit ain't right. Especially your ex best friend bcoz she put herself in a terrible position.
@@lynxlubbpeeps education won’t help. They all knew it was evil and even said so, but loyalty was more important to them I guess and they all knew him first. As far as her, I mean I feel torn. Part of me is hurt, betrayed, angry etc and is kinda just like “fuck her I hope she’s miserable” and the other part of me worries about her and always will. Healthy people don’t just chose to be with rapists knowingly and I know she had/has trauma from being sexually abused growing up as well. Maybe her life experience just made it too normal for her. Idk. I just hope she’s not being abused like I was, although I know she probably is. I don’t like her but I don’t think anyone should be abused even if they put themselves in that situation. Her choice though I guess.
I almost threw up reading that. I know I'm a guy so my lived experience is different than yours but I was raped and I wasn't believed by my best friend, but that was just one rejection. To endure an entire group siding against you... my heart really breaks for you, that's absolutely horrific. That's monstrous. I hope you know you didn't deserve that, that you deserve people who side with you and that you're a better person than all of them put together. I really wish you the best on your journey towards healing. It's long and hard but we'll both get there.
In highschool, a girl i knew was SA'd by her close friend. Nobody in the school except a few believed her, some even berated her for not talking about it immediately(despite her not being able to as it was an active case) They all said "he was too nice to do that." she had to literally go into online school just to get through some because people treated her so horribly. all cuz they would rather believe he's too nice for that. He was convicted as guilty and she had a restraining order against him. But he's "just such a nice guy" right?
I hate victim blaming. No victim is ever "good enough" for people to care about. She's a liar, then she should have said something sooner, she's somehow still in the wrong even after the guy was found guilty - it's like no matter how bad the trauma is, nothing ever outweighs how much other people like the perpetrator in terms of importance. Society is sick.
“The issue isn’t with how he conducts himself around adults or friends, the issue is how he conducted himself around women when no one else was watching.”
long time lurker, first time commenter. i’m 30 now- 10 years ago, in college, a good friend of mine was raped by a man who until then was also a good friend of mine. The next day, I dropped him and stood with my friend that he had attacked. The rest of the group did not. “I just can’t lose [rapist’s name]” is something someone actually said to me. I will never agree with the people who did not turn on him, but I understand ~how~ they made it ok for themselves. Because for me, accepting that he was so loving to me and at the same time so violent and had this whole dimension I never knew - it upended my whole world. Its a profound, physical and emotional grief that I went through. I see how other people do not want to go through it. But you HAVE TO. Your friend is a rapist. He is the not the man you knew. He tricked you, and people have been profoundly hurt and victimized in his wake. You have to cope and get over it because the victims fucking need you NOW. You have to put your pain aside and fight for the victim, however they need.
Thank you for being the support your friend absolutely needed when others didn't have the courage to. It is life saving to have someone like you when dealing with that kind of trauma, so I hope you know a lot of people out here are proud of you :)
You did the right thing! Screw the rest of your friends that didn't stick up/side with the victim! I have many reasons why I chose to never have any kids of my own, but the world we live in today (how sick and twisted it is/has become) is definitely one of the reasons why. I know what was done to me as a child and I couldn't even imagine bringing and innocent child into the world we live in today! And what happened to me was back in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's! It seems it just gets worse and worse!
People refuse to work through their grief until they are forced to, be it a someone dying, or just your image of them because if you do try to work through it, you have to accept that things will never return to what they were and it's just sooo much more comfortable to live in denial. You're an amazing person, and I'm so glad that your friend had you to stand with them, thank you for sharing this story with us.
Thank you so much. I went through this in hs, almost all of his very close friends took my word but unfortunately some didn't and most were my friends too. I'll always be grateful to those who did. He actually pled guilty, and even then some stood by him. Using this same logic of well he was nice to me bs. I carried around those papers for years bc i felt like i had to prove that he pled guilty.. since out of court he denied it. Well, until he did it to 3 more women then everyone believed me. You're a great friend for that and I know it meant the world to your friend.
A loyal friend is valuable (and rare in this situation) good on u. When K+K decided to write the letters they thought no one would be the wiser bc that’s what DM’s lawyer told them (“the letters will be sealed by the judge.”). I guess they didn’t realize or remember _lawyers lie._ They requested the judge to seal them. Request denied, son. That’s the anger seen in the video. But there’s so much more to this story between Masterson + Kutcher + that serial kîller.
as the renowned drew gooden once said "when your friend gets accused of something bad, your instinct is probably to come out and defend them because you never experienced that yourself, but your positive experience with someone doesn't change the negative experience someone might have had with them"
Yea there's a couple of people who have dug that up and posted it again. It needs to make the rounds again on the internet. He also mentions the Olsen twins because they were also under 18 at the time.
I was a teen during the 2000s (well actually my age lined up perfectly with the years, so in 2001 I was 11, 2002 I was 12 etc. You may already be aware but the progres in social attitudes towards women & girls/sexism/feminism and rape culture, although its *not where it needs to be now at all*, was so much worse pre-2010s. Honestly pre-2015 if I'm being honest. When I tell you men & boys - regardless of how egalitarian they felt they were - were comfortable saying this shit in polite company with no public backlash, I'm not kidding. Is that an excuse for what happened then? Nope. Is it an excuse now? Nope. BUT. As someone who lived through that era, believe me when I say that the reason Ashton's (probably) off-hand comment didn't get flagged then was because his was filled with the least malice. I honestly believe he was engaging in that type of bro-ish behaviour unseriously, because there were much more vile and egregious examples I can think of, and he was likely stating in a way "this is what other dudes want". Yeah but if anyone wants a peek back into the horror of pre-2015, see "official countdowns" for the Olsen twins (website and everything!) Emma Watson, Shiloh Jolie (who was a toddler when that started I think), and many, many others. And young girls in Hollywood who came up in the 70s - 90s had it even worse: see Brooke Shields being PUBLICALLY and remorselessly sexualised at 10 years old. Ten. I'm not kidding. A lot of those women have since given interviews where they talk about how that damaged & affected them. I think some creeps even still did it for Billie Eilish, Taylor Swift, Millie Bobbie Brown etc.
What was interesting about that was that he said that on his show how she was going to be in a movie called cheaper by the dozen...he was in the movie with her...imagine how she felt. Ugh..
If you’ve known someone intimately for 25 years and the best character example you can think of is them not letting some drunk man publicly berate their girlfriend in a pizza place then that is sad. Even super evil people do good things in front of others to maintain a positive public image so they can gaslight those they are abusing behind the curtain and cast doubt on their statements if they choose to speak up, kind of like in .. oh I don’t know, this exact situation?
I'm sorry, but how could someone not have done more than a SINGLE good thing in 25 years? Like, 25 years, a quarter of your life, and that's the best thing you've done..? I understand the point is to bring up one thing in particular so it stays in your audiences' minds, but legit the best thing you've done in a quarter of your life is barely above the bare minimum.
It’s insane the amount of communal narcissism these celebrities have. Starting with telling everyone they are philanthropists etc. why does it seem like an excuse.
@@Echoingsunflowers981 I feel like you're ascribing malice to Jimmy where there isn't any. He's openly stated that his efforts are not a solution to the problems of society and the government *should* be the one helping any of these needy people who show up in his content. Charity drives clicks, and the people who get the free shit have a little bit of their burdens alleviated. Don't think he has ever personally put himself up on a pedestal about his charity work. Plenty of criticism to be had about how capitalism incentivizes the kind of "feel good" content he produces alongside his goofier stuff without foisting upon him stances or beliefs he has never expressed or even hinted at.
The point Ashton made about Danny’s daughter not having a father really hit home with me because my mom told me something similar when I tried reporting her bf since she’d just gotten pregnant. Just because someone’s a parent doesn’t give them the automatic right to not be held accountable & warps the perspective of the victims since they’re dealing with enough, they don’t need someone coming to the defense of someone who abused them.
Same! It upsets me so much! Oh so you are concerned that her father going to prison for life will affect the daughter? What about the women he victimized who have been dealing with the aftermath for 20 years? They were someone’s daughters too! Danny ruined his daughters life on his own by being someone who did vile things and thinking those women he hurt didn’t matter. This isn’t the fault of the justice system for putting him behind bars, it’s his own dang fault. His daughter will grow up without a father, which is terrible, especially when she finds out in the future why it happened. Danny can blame no one else but himself for that.
@@sunkissed7377I think the point you made can‘t be emphasized often enough. The perpetrator made their own choices, all consequences included. Everything happening when someone reports their crimes is collateral damage that they have caused themselves. I also think the specific point about not reporting someone because their child will grow up fatherless is extremely toxic. 😵💫 Imagine having someone assault someone else, people finding out about it and them not facing any repercussions - what kind of role model are they going to be for a child? And what kind of crazy dynamics is this going to create in a family?
as someone's daughter, i would rather having a father that's in prison and not having a rapist dad at my house, why would a judge think "yeah this man is a rapist but lets get him home to his daughter"
Besides all of this, what kind of values would he teach his daughter in the long run? I don't think he would treat her very nice to begin with. Maybe even saying stuff like "He is a man and he can do whatever to you", you know?
True. But also, now that I think about it, I just realized something. I have to wonder if her saying that was her way of acknowledging publicly that they support Masterson by implying that he is somehow a victim. Despite the fact that they know damn well he's the exact opposite. I know this word has been overused online, but if that was what she meant, then it's textbook gaslighting to... y'know, actual victims.
What makes me the angriest is that Ashton and Mila talk like they had no choice but to write these letters like it's part of the due process of the court when it's not! They had a choice to write these letters, just because they were asked to does not mean they have to. They were not subpoenaed to do so they had a choice and the chose to defend him. Disgusting.
I had a former friend from college get convicted of having relations with her student (a minor). Before sentencing, she messaged me on FB asking for a character letter, and I explicitly told her no. Whatever friendship/relationship we had doesn't negate or excuse the pain her victim went through. She gets out of jail soon & I have no intention of rekindling the friendship. I understand how it feels like a betrayal when you think you know someone & the content of their character & then find out you were wrong, but defending their heinous actions is not the way to process that.
FINALLY someone is speaking on Ashton and Mila’s relationship. I remember years ago watching an interview where she said she had to lie about her age to get on the show. then getting flashbacks of how much she was s*xualized ESPECIALLY in early seasons absolutely disgusted me. She was a child, and now married to the man who helped, pretty much, groom her. Even Fez on the show has been accused of heinous things. That show was a breeding ground.
Yea and people keep saying, well she lied about her age as if they didn't know how bad it was... She lied but they asked her if she was like 15 or 16 and she was 14 at the time. It's not like the people running the show were trying to make sure she was 18. On top of that, regardless of how much age she lied about, they KNEW by the time she signed the paperwork before starting to work just how young she was.
Why do people always wonder how they studio could hire her so young but never wonder how could the freaking parents vouch for her? They knew what the show was gonna be about and that everyone was older than her. They didn’t care, they sold their daughter to the industry? Exactly how did Ashton groom her when he was hired and doing his job? Yeah he could have quit but I’m sure most of you wouldn’t quit your job if you found out one of your coworkers was underage. Anyway to me this looks disgusting on the parents more than anyone else.
@Esterferreiradecastro ALOT. 1. He dated a 15 year old Mandy Moore when he was 20 and lied about taking her virginity on the Howard Stern show. 2. He dated 17 year old Lindsay Lohan when he was 25 and even got her to guest star on That 70s show. 3. He pursued Demi Lovato when she was 17, and he was 29 and was on and off with her for years. Demi even wrote a song about it last year called "29." He's probably done more, but these are the first things that come to mind.
Many things can be true at once. I went to school with this really sweet, gentle guy. He was honestly so kind, wouldn’t hurt a fly. We found out a couple years later after leaving school that on at least 3 separate occasions he had violently dragged women into the bushes (not far from where the school was) to rape and force them to perform oral sex on him. Never ever be shocked. You can never vouch for anyone!
I knew someone similar, he was very quiet funny nice but a little before he was shot and killed it came out he was a rapist of the girls in the younger grades and best believe everyone distanced themselves from him😭😭
@@heyimneverland8451 yikes! Honestly it can be anyone.. and to come on the internet to defend someone you’re subscribed to but have ever met in your life is crazy to me! I like Russel (these days) but I wouldn’t put it past him. I’d rather sit back and see how everything unfolds.
I've experienced something similar. I was friends with a guy who seemed like the kindest, friendliest guy. I'd have expected him to be the type to defend a woman being abused. Then one day he got arrested for beating his girlfriend, holding her hostage and then threatening to murder a mutual friend who had been there when it all happened. He's still in prison for it to this day. I'm still shocked when I think about it. He's the last person I'd ever have guessed would be that way, but people can be very different behind closed doors. It actually kind of scares me how evil he was and how I didn't see it at all. He got a minimum of 8 years in prison I think, but his latest release date is in 2043 or something like that.
@@sundalosketch4769 I have tried to illustrate both things below. What a character reference is and why it's important that they're banned. A character letter/character reference is something I can provide a judge with to make them aware of how good a person the woman who deliberately shoved you down a flight of stairs is. I can write "This woman is my best friend. She has never shoved me down a flight of stairs. I have never seen her harm anybody in any way all these times that we've hung out together. Therefore, she is a person who doesn't normally shove people down flights of stairs. And she always took really good care of my horse, whenever I asked her to. Even when it was short notice." Such character letters/character references are meant to help a judge form a more complete picture of the person they're about to sentence. But it doesn't matter how my best friend has treated me. It's irrelevant how willing she was to take care of my horse. It doesn't matter that I've never seen her harm anyone. Because what does that prove? That she's incapable of throwing someone down a flight of stairs? That she'd normally never do that and that the time she threw YOU down a flight of stairs must have been a one-time thing, with no such cases before and therefore no possible such cases after? No. It only proves, at best, that those times when she and I hung out together, she didn't do such a thing. It doesn't even prove that she, for example, didn't kick my horse at some point. It just means that I, personally, as an individual, have not seen her commit any such crime. There are things I could say about you. I have for example never experienced you use the word "omelette". Does that mean you've never used that word? Of course not. My experiences with you are limited to, well, my experiences with you. I can't say anything about you that might possibly counter the claim that you've threatened to throw an omelette at a neighbour of yours. How could it? You may be familiar with someone not being sentenced less harshly because "they have no prior criminal record". I find that logic equally flawed. I don't have a criminal record. Does that mean I've never committed a crime? No. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. My lack of criminal record proves almost nothing apart from, well, the fact that I don't have a criminal record.
@@camelopardalis84 Yeah I can definitely see how silly and time-wastey character references are. Especially with how equally flawed the concept seems to be when put on paper. It would have to rely on those making such letters to be honest saints with no absolute bias, despite vouching for the offender's innocence. Every criminal has started from somewhere, anyone can easily become one, just because they haven't done something bad before doesn't mean they're not capable of starting down the path towards criminality behind one's back. Idk why people would honestly believe that. Thank you very much for the in-depth explanation! It was very helpful in getting me to understand it a lot more now
@@sundalosketch4769 Sadly, there are a lot of things in criminal law that simply don't make sense and need to stop being a thing. And you're very welcome. I'm glad I was able to help. Had I been further along with the video, I could have just said that the letters D'Angelo read from in this video are both character letters/character references. Or rather, character references in letter form. (But alas, this wasn't all you asked about. :))
Imagine being Ashton Kutcher's kid and hearing that your father would not hesitate to place you on his *convicted* r*pist friend's care, well after he was found guilty💀Not even that celebrity money can cover the amount of therapy needed
Especially after reading "Know my Name" by Chanel Miller, I'm competely horrified by the contrast between how survivors of sexual violence and their assaultants are treated in court. The use of "character witnesses" to downplay the crimes vs the slander their victims experience is heartbreaking and reflects an extremely messed up and disgusting attitude towards sexual violence.
I dont understand why this is even allowed honestly. Evidence is evidence, courts shouldnt give a flying fuck about their characters because thats how justice gets even more skewed.
Right like if a guy is a serial killer, or serial robber or arsonist, people wouldn’t give a fuck about character witnesses. But rape is somehow different???? Its so fucked
The man who SA'ed me since I was about 6 years old till I was about 14 or 15 was my aunt's husband. He has always been a popular figure in our small community, always loud and helped others financially or through resources. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he completely destroyed my innocence and took away a massive part of my childhood, and which still traumatizes me to this day. After I came out about it to my parents, we broke all contact with him and my aunt's family and slowly the whole family found out. My parents didnt publicize it for the sake of my aunt and her son, my cousin. But when other's found out, like other female members of the family they started confiding to my mom how they too have been harassed or make uncomfortable by this man, or how he even touched some of them inappropriately. BUT WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE BEFORE!!! I am mad at all of them. I get where they were coming from, but did it never occur to the older ones to tell their daughters or sisters to be careful with this man. They instead always talked about how amazing this man was, to the point that 13 year old me had to tell myself that maybe I am being delusional and this "great" man cant do shit like that.
Ashton Kutcher: “We’re fathers” Also Ashton Kutcher: Started doing sexual stuff with Mila Kunis when she was a 14 year old child on set and he was like 19
This whole supposed "apology" is all about "how dare you criticize us", there's no regret or remorse, just their immense self righteousness about how great they are. People complain about cancel culture but I don't know how else to reach these high powered celebrities in their bubbles, I'll personally stop to watch any movie or show they're in and I hope many other people do too.
another example of celebrities being straight-up DETACHED from reality. and thinking because their (also famous) friend is someone they know, how could they ever do something terrible? whole time the evidence is literally being spelled out.
To be fair, EVERYONE does this - it's not just a celebrity thing. It does, however worsen when the accused/guilty holds a higher social status, be that fame, gender, wealth, race, religion, etc. Most humans get hardcore cognitive dissonance when it comes to accepting that someone they know/like/respect has done bad things.
Actually, Ashton Kutcher’s “charity” hasn’t raised much money for victims of trafficking AT ALL, because ONLY %20 of their money actually goes towards helping people, while the other %80 goes to paying their employees
A lot of these anti-trafficking charities are shady. They don't even show accurate numbers on the issue (there's a lot more nuance to the situation according to more legit sources). It's purely a PR move in a lot of cases to have a charity.
Ashton has all this money at his disposal and he's (allegedly) relying on donations to pay his employees??? The math ain't mathing on his end. What the fuck
When I was in my junior year of college my roommate was nearly SA-ed by a guy her friend was friends with. She only managed to stop him by pretending she wanted to turn down the AC in the hallway and instead going into my room and waking me up and telling me what was going on. She hid in my bathroom while I scared him off. I don't remember the details exactly but she was so afraid of retaliation that she made me pretend she was sick and throwing up in my bathroom initially. He clearly didn't believe me so I had to get a little tougher than she would've liked but there wasn't no fvcking way I was going to let him see her again nor was I going back to sleep until he was out of the apartment. When she told her friend what he did (stuff like shoving a finger down her throat) she refused to believe her. Eventually everyone in that friend group stopped being friends with my roommate because they didn't believe that "such a nice guy" like him would ever do that to a girl or it was just a misunderstanding. When she left the room on her fake mission to turn down the AC, he was fully clothed. By the time I went to her room to tell him off he was down to his boxers. This stuff happens all the time, it's disgusting. Thankfully she found better friends.
The fact that Mila brought up how they ‘historically have shown [they support victims] through their actions’ proves in of itself she doesn’t give a singular flip about victims, she cares about her public image and her rose-colored view of the world. Absolutely disgusting from both of them, it’s always hard when people you think are allies turn out to be just as vapid and self-absorbed as the rest of celebrities, but the truth always comes out in the end. My sincere condolences to all of the victims of all of these pathetic excuses for people.
What she doesn't get is ok you've supported victims in the past, that means absolutely nothing now you've begged for leniency for a convicted rapist cause he was always nice to you. You can't publicly support victims and privately support a rapist. The two are mutually exclusive.
@@cashargis6950 omg did you see the creepy shit he said about Hilary duff and the Olsen twins. How has he had everyone convinced he was a good guy for so long?
They didn't think the letters would come out. The fact they they wrote letters of support for Danny after he was convicted when Ashton is on the board of Thorn is absolutely disgusting
yeh. Clearly they weren’t paying attention when the letters of support for Elizabeth Holmes came out. Those were a real treat. I remember cackling at the hilarity & wondering why no one had bothered to tell her partner & parents that these were meant to convince the judge to give her a **LESSER** sentence, not that she and her family are all psychopaths. Same with these clowns. I totally buy the theory that they’re terrified that the mastersons &/or Scientology will totally screw them over if they don’t comply with demands to support Danny. They’re all vile.
@@vbvermontI’ve heard some people claim Scientology is blackmailing people into defending him and some say it’s Scientology the one that’s putting him in jail and this all sounds like internet blabber where everyone’s just repeating what they hear and nobody has seen any concrete proof so I won’t invest myself much into any of these theories.
What gets me about the That 70s Show situation is the casting calls for the leads specifically asked for either 16+ actors or 18+ actors to play teenagers, which is common when a show or movie is going to have mature themes. Mila lied about her age when she auditioned and they didn't find out until after she was cast in the role. Yeah, lying is wrong but she was a young teen trying to get into a competitive industry and I'm not going to put the blame on her...I WILL however, put blame on the showrunners for having no issues moving forward with what they had initially planned for a character intended to be played by an 18+ actor. They should have recast the role with someone who, like the rest of the lead actors, was over 18. Putting a minor in a situation where they have to act out a romantic storyline with a legally adult co-star on camera is wildly inappropriate and they KNEW that...but did it anyways. :/
Imagine being the victim of these heinous crimes and having to read about how great your aggressor is and 'he would never'. Even AFTER these abusers have been condamned and judged guilty, you have to be confronted with the people basically implying that you're lying because 'he's such a good man and a good father'. They're all goind to hell in gasoline drawers
This is why depression occurs at such high rates among survivors. Society traumatizes them on top of the horrific crime that already happened to them. We as a society fail survivors, full stop.
This reminds me of a subplot in the Netflix show You. A woman who is a new friend of the main character tells him that this musician guy drugged and assaulted her when she was a teenager and her teen sister doesn’t believe her and hangs out with the musician anyway because he hasn’t done anything creepy (yet) to her. But he later tries to drug and assault her too after he’s sure she trusts her. This was eye-opening to me because, even if it’s obvious in hindsight, bad people will pretend to be nice to earn your trust before they betray you
As someone who was rworded and drugged by fentanyl (by an ex Toronto cop), I can absolutely tell you there is no justice, even with an INCREDIBLY RARE conviction.
I am so sorry for the sheer pain and trauma you have been put through, my husband and I just had this conversation in that sadly this piece of shit will appeal and likely spend little to no real time behind bars.
Wow I was so upset for a minute, it’s crazy how fast your believability goes down once I took a look at your pfp, people like that just want attention and will make stuff up to get it. I don’t trust the 50% chance being fake experiences of people who don’t even know what gender they are, they just say stuff try and get attention from random internet people. Also they cry when someone says they don’t instantly respect their “gender” too many red flags to believe a word they say.
@@PourItIn_MyTrophiesSome people don’t feel comfortable using it if not absolutely necessary, and some do it just incase of social media TOS rules. Either way, it’s their business what they want to say, and it really doesn’t concern you. Telling a r*pe victim to “grow up” for how they tell their story is really disgusting. People like you are disgusting. I really hope no one around you thinks to ask you for support if this happens to them. How about you take your own advice.
@drepearson3938 so what you took from this person's story is that they are childish for censoring a word that has very traumatic associations for them? Sounds like you're the one who needs to grow up 😊 I hope middle school is treating you well kiddo!
Nathan Pyle has a great and consistently relevant comic where two eagles are discussing whether or not they think an owl is a predator: "Of course not. He's never bothered me." "Exactly....No idea what Mr Mouse was going on about."
On the flip side, this is why people pay attention to how their date treats waitstaff during the “getting to know each other” period. It doesn’t matter that they treat you well, what matters is how they treat everyone in whatever position.
One of my dad's friends was accused of SA and he not only stood by the victim, he gave her a lift to the police station (this was the 80's, public transport was even worse than it is now) and threatened to beat his friend's ass if he came near the woman in question again. That's how a *real* man handles this situation - put yourself inbetween the assailant and the survivor and tell someone, "you gotta go through me".
Yesterday my ex boyfriend(who I am currently stuck on a lease with) told me in regards to the Danny masterson that he would do the same thing for his best friend since he was five. He said he doesn’t expect me to understand because I don’t have friends from my young childhood like that. He said he’d be upset but there’s more nuance to the situation and that there’s more to people when you’ve known them for that long. All I had to say to him is that you are who your friends are and if you chose to associate with a rapist you’re really no better and that he can’t understand because he’s never been a victim of rape or SA, and I in fact have. More than once. It was the least surprising thing I’ve ever heard a man say and yet I was still incredibly shocked and disappointed.
@@c.cortez1508a lot of true colours have been coming out slowly over the time since we have broken up lol our lease isn’t up til January 🥲 my plan is to stick it out until December and just pay two rents for Jan. We are both doing a lot of staying at friends houses lol
Him pulling the “you wouldn’t understand because you haven’t had friends since childhood” phrase is bs and gaslighting. 1. Danny and Ashton were not friends “since childhood”, so the point is moot. 2. I have had a friend since childhood and if this crap had been pulled I would not be defending them.
I am sorry for all your experiences of betrayal. Including your current experience of the sudden, and shocking loss of the person you thought your ex was. I can relate, in a similar lived experience way, to everything you wrote. 🫂
@@daniellamcgee4251 it’s okay :) I’m sorry you’ve had to go thru similar things, it does really suck, but right now I am just grateful that he’s showing me his true colours, its making everything a lot easier to be honest. But people really do suck sometimes
I told my ex husband’s new fiancée that he r-worded me and she acted like she took me seriously at first. Then she completely left me on read and got back together with him. She considers herself a feminist and an SA advocate. People will rationalize anything when it’s someone they love :/
First off, I’m so sorry you went through that. Trigger warning as my comment discusses r*pe, SA and r*pe-apologists. Your last sentence reminded me of a documentary I watched about Phil Spector, a famous music producer who was convicted of murdering actress Lana Clarkson, shooting her dead in his house after pressuring her to come back to his. I don’t doubt this was difficult for his daughter, but various women gave testimony at his trial about how he r-worded them in his home at gunpoint, becoming enraged after they tried to leave. His daughter said, “I’m not calling them liars, and I STAND with survivors, but I don’t see how it’s relevant”. EVEN THOUGH it’s a clear pattern of behaviour from Spector which suggests he shot Lana after she tried to leave (supported by how she was wearing her jacket, bag and shoes when Spector murdered her). I don’t know how she gels her survivor supporting stance with also saying their stories aren’t relevant; in any other case she would likely consider them ABSOLUTELY relevant. Of course it must be hard to deal with your dad being a monster but that was an incredibly insensitive take from her. She also remained in regular contact with her dad until he died of covid in prison very recently and speaks of him incredibly fondly. Idk
@drepearson3938 People say r-worded because the actual word often gets your video/comment censored. It's just like the word unalive from tiktok, people are just trying to get around filters.
I personally don’t know a single woman who hasn’t been a victim of assault by a man and it’s just heartbreaking to see the way even people who say they stand up for victims blatantly defend such a monstrous person and action. That being said, I really appreciate you covering topics like these, justified anger included, because people need to see and hear from those they admire and respect that this is wrong. Any way you paint it, it’s wrong. Keep doing what you’re doing, I’m so grateful for the way you use your platform.
Same. Every woman I know has been assaulted by a man in some way whether it's groping, stalking, rape, molestation, kidnapping or an abusive relationship.
@@Aster_Risk Same here including myself, it’s so upsetting that so many people can relate. Literally every woman has experienced s/a in some way and it shouldn’t be that way, it makes me sick.
My ex was super friendly and defended women all the time.... while he was abusing and r*ping me. They do these "nice" things to get good guy points so when people come out against them their accuser sounds like a liar.
I did this once--wrote a letter for someone who definitely provably did wrong. They were a child. I was their teacher. I just wrote a letter highlighting the different ways we, as a society, could have intervened, and encouraged he be charged as a minor because it had better supports. I passed along information that showed said student likely had a learning disability of some sort. That already made me super uncomfortable. Danny is an adult. He didn't need anyone to defend him. He made these choices over and over again.
Looks like you focused on merits and that's probably best in this kind of shitty situation... in Kutcher's case they focused on their feelings and beliefs, which adds manipulative layer to this whole situation - because they don't have anything solid to defend perpetuator or show him in good light, they only don't want him to be convicted because they don't like the idea, which is messed up too IMO
This video could not have been more well timed because the amount of people I've seen defending Russel Brand through social media about his good character.... "He helped me alot.... He never raped ME"..... The amount of hoops people will jump through to defend people THEY think are good is absolutely disturbing
I understand that it’s difficult to realize someone you thought you knew is capable of something as evil as rape, but to turn around and say the victims shouldn’t be believed because nothing happened to you is sick
This is scary, because Ashton Kutcher made his reputation known as someone who fights against violence and wants to protect kids. But then in private he’s saying he would trust a convicted rapist around his kids?? And is defending his character, completing invalidating the victims?! Like we really can’t trust anyone..
Never. Ever. I mean ever trust a celebrity. We will never know them, and the power they have allows them to walk through life feeling invincible. I’m no “Hollywood is full of pedos” conspiracy theorist but power and money do sick things to people
You can especially not trust celebrities that you don't know personally and only see on the television screen. Why you would ever consider trusting them is baffling.
I was in an abusive relationship with someone who was an absolute sweetheart to my parents, including coming up with a beautiful idea for one of their memorials. It’s a mask.
No es el dinero, es la codicia, la ambición y el narcisismo. Ahí tienes a Keanu Reeves, a quien no le hace falta dinero pero tampoco ha dejado que se le suba a la cabeza. Son pocos en realidad los que tienen los pies sobre la tierra. Pero todos los demás viven en una burbuja.
Gente pobre faz a mesma coisa, porque a nossa percepção dos outros fala mais alto do que qualquer outra coisa que outros tenham a dizer sobre quem a gente (acha que) conhece
I believe that Ashton Kutcher and Mika Juno’s are in denial. Someone who they were friends with since they teenagers has been convicted of serious crimes. That is a lot to accept and I’m not surprise that they fell into a delusion of denial.
Ashton Kutcher did the exact same thing when Ellen was accused of having a toxic work environment on her show “She was a great person to me, a rich and famous celebrity, therefore she’s a great person to everyone!”
That is exactly what came to my mind first after learning that he defended yet another one of his celebrity friends. I guess he just can’t get it through his thick skull that they would never treat him this horribly because they see him as their equal and would never even try to exploit their power with him because he has the same amount of power. Sucky guy.
I was thinking of this exact thing because Drew Gooden made a video on it and did a really funny skit based on that specific comment. It's sad that it still holds up
D’Angelo, you’re allowed to be pissed off!! as someone who has been SAed at an extremely young age and has been groomed multiple times online, I find rape one of the most heinous acts a person can do. victims of rape (esp children) have historically never been taken seriously and it’s heartbreaking bc they’re always accused of lying or being “dramatic”. i’m considering writing a paper or filming a video about this sort of thing bc it’s something i heavily resonate with. thank you for making this video and speaking out against celebrities defending rapists, i really appreciate it.
One of the saddest and fucked up things about this is that Mila Kunis was basically groomed by Daniel and Ashton as a teenager, and now she’s married to one of them.
My Dad was abusive towards me growing up and caped for his father CSA-ing me, and my mother's father did the exact same, and she caped for him as well, and allowed these rapes and sexual abuses to keep happening. Their response was typically that of malignant narcissists and psychopathic people whose first, second, third, and 99th instinct is to save face and to cover their own asses. They saw it, yet they pulled the narcissist card and lied, saying they knew nothing about it. They maintain that to this day. They'd rather live in denial to this day than protect their daughter. My younger brother is 11 years younger than me, and I missed most of middle and high school to raise him. I am a strark contrast to his/our biological parents. However, with an 11-year age gap, when I went off to college, our toxic bio-Dad and awful mother re-entered the picture, but they didn't abuse him nearly as much as they did me. He was a wanted child and a boy. He was good at math and science. Nevermind that I have two MS degrees and that I got full-ride scholarships to all 3 degrees; he is the favored one. I cut the bio-parents out of my life due to their cruelty, homophobia, abuse, and the fact that they allowed me to be abused by their parents and that they refused to protect me or even acknowledge their role in it and in allowing their child to be sexually abused while they ignored it and did nothing to stop it. So it broke my heart when the child I raised for his first 14 years of his life cut me off when I cut my bio-parents off because of their cruel abuse. He never saw them as abusers (except, in his words, for the minor abuses they did to him) and he sided with them too, even though I raised him alone, only 11 years older than him. That did it for me. He wanted to reconcile without wanting to do any of the emotional work at his big age (25) and would rather sacrifice his relationship with the one person who ever loved him unconditionally (me) to continue living in ignorance and denial of incest and horrible abuse. That's when I realized I have to let my brother go as a lost cause. He will be just like them because he already is, and he has betrayed me too many times to make uo for it, has never shown any desire to believe me or help me unless it benefits him (when he wanted to moan about how dad underestimated him once, which is absolutely nothing compared to the beatings I would get). It's heartbreaking to see someone I raised and loved more than anyone else turn out to be as much of a narcissist as his parents and relatives. He never let me fully back into his life and I was never invited to his house, or to meet his GF, etc. He lured me back after over 10 years NC with contacting me and encouraging me to move back to the city near where he and our bio-parents live, which has been hell for me, as he has no interest in getting to n know me, and I wonder if he did this bc our bio-parents asked him to be a spy for them. We hung out twice total, where he had ro prodded into admitting that he cut me off, and couldn't even own it or apologize for it. I guess from now on, he's in the "someone I thought I knew that ended up n being a narcissist" category, which breaks my heart, because I raised him until he was 12, and gave up most of my teen years to do so. His latest betrayal, where he reported my negative feelings to our bio-parents (a betrayal because we had agreed to keep conversations with each other just between us). It's really hard to view this man who was a baby, whom I raised, who taught me what love is, betray and hurt me so horribly, and in a way that means nothing to him. I had no idea he was so cold-blooded. Everything about this breaks my heart.
I’m so sorry, that sounds extremely heartbreaking. It really sounds like you did your absolute best in raising him, and it’s terrible that he cut you off in such a horrible way. I don’t know that there’s anything I can say that would make things any better, but I’m sending hugs 💕
Didn’t Ashton do something similar when it came out that Ellen was a piece of 💩 ? I know it’s not as heavy as a situation. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it was in Jarvis or Drew’s vids about the workplace misconduct where they say “of course she was nice to you. You’re Ashton f’ing Kutcher. Not her underpaid assistant.”
as a victim of assault myself i find it very disturbing to hear people use the excuse of “oh they are nice to me” it is a slap in the face to all victims. in my case i was bullied out of my school because my abusers were popular, varsity football players and i was constantly told “they would never do something like that you must be lying for attention” i have little faith in society now
That is horrific! I fully believe you, because I know, from experience, these things happen. However, not ALL of humanity are abusers, or want to deny assault! The majority of the reactions to perpetrator defending makes it clear that the majority are not like the people you knew. And I am sure many believed you back then, too, and had empathy, but didn't think they were strong enough for the social backlash you survived. School is full of hormonal instability, and identity crises, and a desperation to belong as a survival instinct. The adult world includes the majority of people who have grown through all of that, and can be decent people.
That's awful, I hope you've gotten (or will get) better support since then. With more people speaking out about these issues, hopefully it's a sign of society changing for the better
My biological dad has written letters like this for multiple friends and family members, and it makes me sick how many people have gotten away with this kind of crime because of letters like this.
For what it is worth, I have doubts that letters from friends end up meaning very much to the judge. They are very good at noting that sociopaths can be very ingratiating to their “friends” precisely for this reason.
@@GiftSparks I don't know how much impact the letters have but I do know at least 2 of the people my dad wrote letters for got off with no repercussions.
@@GiftSparks it is sad and also maddening, especially because he has chosen these people over his own family. For example, one of the men he defended was in his 20s and taken to court because he SA'd my sister, who was 12 at the time 😢
I saw a comment on an IG post about the Danny Masterson case that I really agreed with; it went something like this, “You can never really vouch for a person accused of SA *if you aren’t the victim* bc it could literally be anybody, your friend, a member of the clergy, a teacher, a politician.” Basically unless you were THERE, you can never really say anything about the character of someone behind closed doors.
I had to comment only 3 minutes in, but seriously: Ashton claiming that Danny never lied to him implies one of two things: 1. Danny was honest with him about the crimes that we committed (or Ashton never asked in all these years) and Ashton kept supporting him 2. Ashton believes that all the victims are lying, even after Danny has been found guilty in court. Either way, he can fuck all the way off! Reading the letter myself when it came out, I couldn't read further with that...
Jane Doe 3 was Danny Masterson’s girlfriend for five years and was an acquaintance of Ashton and Mila. That makes what they did even more disgraceful (if that is possible).
I was in the same situation as Ashton & Mila. I worked & was friends with a guy who seemed very decent- protective even, for many years so when I first heard a rumour about him, I dismissed it- which Im not proud of. When i heard the same rumour about a different girl, I started asking questions. It was far worse than I couldve immagined. He was a predator. They dont wear signs, they dont go after girls that can potentially ruin their career, they pick their victims. I was disgusted & loud about it. I fot him fired, I encouraged women to go to the police & not in a million yeaes would I have helped his defence!! He had a terrible childhood, I'm sorry for that but it doesnt excuse using a position of relative power to assault & intimidate girls & women. Shooting women also not ok. They're dumb really, pretty idiots. They really think their "intuition" lets them see into peoples heads? I hope they get snarter- for their kids sake.
First of all, bravo! If only more people had the your same mindset... I think is perfectly normal to be skeptical and disbelieving if someone you think you know well and you like/love is accused of heinous crimes. If feelings are involved, it's difficult to discard them immediately, "just" because someone says so. That said, I don't believe even for a second that AK and MK weren't aware of DM's true nature. I think that they just didn't care because it didn't affect them directly. At beast they decided not to see - I mean, they were friends that spent time together and went together at parties, and at parties is often were DM did what he did.
"they dont wear signs, they don't go after girls that can potentialy ruin their career, they pick their victims" This is especialy true with pedos. At the scouts i went to i was the neurodivergent child who was already dissociating due to gender dysphoria who came from a working class family. Compared to the rest i was the easiest victim. The name predator is apt. They tend to go for those that are already social outcasts, those that already struggle to explain themselves and those already having trouble dealing with stuff.
As a long time true crime media consumer, one thing I learned is that you can never know what another person is capable of. So if there's a victim and proof of it, other people should stay out of it.
This is another reminder that even people who are "good", kind, charitable, and loving parents (or who pretend to be) can still be an abuser or r*pist. The idea that all abusers are categorised as "monsters" stops people from recognising and accepting that someone they love has deeply hurt another person which leads to nonsense like these letters. I think society would benefit from accepting that someone's loving father and friend can be another person's monster.
Until we learn this and internalize it, we as a society aren't going to make meaningful progress towards supporting victims and also towards destigmatizing reporting SAs and rapes. We need to stop believing the only person who could do something terrible is a nightmare monster and believe people who accuse "good" people of this.
TW. I was raped by a outstanding member of my community and never saw justice and was branded a hoe and a liar for coming forward, character letters where never needed the judge knew him and he was a "good man and i was a child making up stories to get attention" so these letters piss me OFF
People don’t take assault seriously, doesn’t matter your age your words still matter! I know sorry won’t ever make up for what you went through but I’m so sorry no one deserves that
Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis have no problem fighting against sexual assault until it directly impacted them. They just highlighted how abusers are enabled. There's a severe lack of introspection from them reflected in their "apology."
I just want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for at least touching on the Scientology aspect of Danny Masterson’s case, because it’s always really bugged me how often people won’t even acknowledge it or just don’t know about it, but it’s a super crucial aspect of why and how he got away with these crimes for so long.
Ashton dehumanizing drug users while hyping up a rapist shows how disconnected celebrities are from their own humanity
THIS.
To make it in hollyweird you have to already be morally corrupted that industry is evil
Ted bundy’s brother had a great relationship with him and didnt knew the shit he did, but at the moment ted got arrested and the brother found out the charges, he cut him off and refused to speak of him on positive terms, going as far as to say “no matter what good he did to me it isnt enough for me to ignore the pain of even one victim” so yeah ashton you really dropped the ball here.
Yes, and he was a younger brother by many years who adored his big brother as a key figure in his life, who took him on camping trips etc.. The realisation, and ending the relationship was a huge loss of the big brother he had.
Now that's honorable 👏👏👏
I've also heard of a father who had to turn in his own son for possession of child porn. There's no excuse for what Mila and Ashton did.
OMG someone on tiktok compared this to Ted Bundy’s case
They explained how they could understand that just because people do bad in their lives it doesn’t take away all the good like Ted volunteering for suicide hot lines.
He literally murdered god knows how many women but he was a good guy cause he stopped people from offing themselves through phone calls
…LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
The brother actually turned him in when he realized the manifesto seemed really familiar. He recognized it could be his brother and courageously went to the FBI and said the unibomber might be my brother. An agonizing but brave decision.
Mila Kunis saying "my heart goes out to victims of SA" but not specifying Danny Masterson's victims was LOUD to me.
Yup, I noticed that too. Maybe she just didn't want to say; I don't know if those women are speaking truth, but my heart goes to all, real, victims. Girl can only attest what she seen. It's hard to prove those kind of crimes anyway.
@@fargotua13He was FOUND GUILTY, read it again, and one time again for extra clarity
@@fargotua13 Yeah but it's pretty hard to get convicted of an assault that happened 20 years ago, I'm assuming there's pretty decent evidence if he's getting put away for 30 years
@@rcm_kem I hope there is a pile of strong evidence because he was convicted... Mila was not the main witness, so she has the right to be precise, she can only arrest what she saw.
@@fargotua13 sure, but watching back on old interviews, it really doesn't feel like that's what she saw. The guy betting someone of age to surprise tongue her during a kiss scene when she was 14 isn't super "brother figure"ly. And talking about how punctual he was at work isn't really relevant when deciding the sentence of a convicted rapist
I had a cousin convicted of statutory rape. His parents asked my dad to write a character letter. My dad said "absolutely not." And that's a family member who my dad watched grow up. It's not hard to just... not defend rapists.
Especially when they already made all their money and have now children. His livelihood is no longer on this man’s hands. Ashton specifically is stinky rich. He didn’t have to defend his friend at this point of his career unless he has also dirt on him and is not on his best interest for his friend to be apprehended.
My mother always told me growing up "I'm not coming down there to bail you out if you get yourself in trouble."
That's impressive, good for your dad. I can imagine there might have been a lot of familial pressure on him. Not sure what I would do if I were ever asked. It doesn't really matter if a person was a good guy to you, if they were convicted of any kind of rape they clearly weren't good to everyone.
@@beccf.s.8012Aaron Smith Levin of Growing up in Scientology has said that despite not being a Scientologist, Ashton was heavily intertwined with the church due to his friendship with Danny. He is fairly certain that the church has dirt on Ashton that could ruin his career. It’s also been alleged that these letters were filed by Danny’s attorney to be under seal so that they wouldn’t be read by anyone and that’s probably what the lawyer told Ashton and Mila when they wrote the letters. Also it’s been heavily implied that Ashton was present in a few instances where Danny had committed his crimes, it’s even alleged that Ashton was in the hotel room next door while Danny was r*ping Jane Doe 4 or 5.
A lot of family members often rally around abusers in their ranks. I've known people disowned by their families for coming forward, while the abuser was embraced and protected.
Using the parent role as a reason to show leniency for a rapist feels like indirect child exploitation to me.
It is very similar to people who claim they can't be sexual harassers because they have daughters.
Definitely! Why would they want Danny Masterson's daughter to be raised by a rapist? It makes no sense.
Yeah it's sickening
I totally agree. Their argument is "it's better to have a freed alcoholic r@pist dad, than a dad the kid could visit safely in jail, and stop visiting whenever she wants"
it’s like referring to female victims as “she was someone’s mother/daughter/sister/ etc.”
like their “value” is not as an individual human being, but via their relationship to someone else.
- a female’s value is related to her being someone’s mother, wife, daughter - a possession
- danny’s is as a father, provider, role model, blah blah blah.
revolting
The fact that Ashton Kutcher has the balls to write that letter while also having a supposed ANTI HUMAN TRAFFICKING FOUNDATION???
It gets even worse, Masterson's ex has released a bunch of information about Kutcher and, if true, he's just as bad as Danny. I think he only did the foundation to soften the blow if/when this all came out.
@@meggy0do you have a source for this i can’t find it 😭
@@meggy0following for info bc i also can't find anything n wanna look into this??
@@loveinstarsit’s on here, I watched a video on it yesterday on Growing up in Scientology. Ashton Kutcher’s name is in the video title
czcams.com/users/livesG3T8Wk3hj0?si=HUevzxNxesSymUCo
I used to know a man who knocked up at least three minors AND who once ran into a burning building to save a family. Monsters can still do good things. That doesn't make them safe people that we should support.
Ted Bundy also did good things but they don't do it for the kindness of their heart, they know they will be praised.
man and minors? assault
@@theceech What assault? In most parts of the world the age of consent is 15-17
He's safe around fires, not teenaged girls. Ashton Kutcher is dumb. Well, he never raped ME. I never saw him rape anyone!
@@vulc1were they 18? No? Yeah then they are a MINOR. Please introduce your last two brains, they are getting lonely.
I was SAed at 17 by a girl i was friends with, when i came out no one believed me, saying how " girls dont do that" and her friends even added me to a gc to make fun of me saying "If she did this to you, why didnt she do this to me??" Its insane how these are the same people going around saying "Believe victims no matter what", yet when its their friend, all of a sudden the victim is a liar...
I hate this. Just because girls do it at a lower rate than men doesn't mean they do it, doesn't make it less horrific, and doesn't make it not a crime! This is absolutely horrific and for whatever it's worth I believe you.
@@morganqorishchi8181 thank you so much i really appreciate that
@@monyomii I hope you have or are able to find non-toxic, supportive friends who are there for you. No one deserves this kind of treatment. You are a human being entitled to dignity, respect, and having your consent matter. I know it can be awful to have people call you a liar. I was raped by a teacher when I was in kindergarten and a lot of people didn't believe me. Some still don't (I had one person tell me that since I'm a guy, I must have 'liked' it; creepiest thing I've ever heard). But you know the truth, the truth matters, and what happened to you matters, because you as a person matter. The opinions of these assholes doesn't matter, because they're bad people. They can make fun of you all they like, but at the end of the day you're a good person who tried to tell them about a predator in their midst and they're bad people who are enabling a predator. You didn't do anything wrong. Sorry for the long comment, I just feel like it's important that you know that. You're important, you're innocent, and you didn't deserve that.
@@morganqorishchi8181 thank you so much :) i hope youre doing ok
This truly hits home!!! It makes you look at them completely different. When it’s someone they THINK they know, now all of a sudden they need to investigate and it’s no way possible their “friend” would do something so foul.
Imagine saying you'd be comfortable leaving your children in the care of a convicted rapist ☠
tell that to the parents who let their kids hang out with Michael Jackson
@@rozeskif Regardless of your opinion of him, Michael Jackson wasn't a convicted rapist. Yes, you may question his character and the thought process of the parents but MJ was not convicted in the court of law like Danny Masterson.
@@YayforFun09 still a weirdo that liked having a bunch of revolving boys sleep in bed with him. that’s a fact. biggest red flag ever.
My mom did this. She knew and knows that my dad is a molesting pedophile BY HIS OWN CONFESSION and she stays with him, defends him, and protects him from the law. People are endlessly evil sometimes.
It's easy to say that knowing that Danny won't be getting out of prison until well after said children are full-grown adults. Curious to see if Ashton would leave his adult daughter alone in a room with Danny. I guess we'll find out in 30 years.
I've never understood the logic of saying, "Well, they were very nice to me, and we got along just fine. They would never do such a thing", which is a total slap in the face to the victims.
The amount of celebrities who said this with Ellen, like of course she was nicer to her guests! That’s not relevant 🫠
Right? Abusers are oftentimes superficially charming, socially manipulative, and extremely well liked, which ends up being even more isolating for those who suffer them with everyone around them singing their praises...
@@HereForGoodVibesit’s always been mind-blowing how a public can just disregard victims’ feelings and side with the abuser over a deceptive mask
Did they think the judge would be like " ohh okay that clears everything up"? I can not imagine what they victim's are feeling.
The logic is simple. They see celebrities. They live in a mental space where other famous people are the only other people that matter to them. Everyone else is just a peasant or a pauper /servant to them. Fame and wealth and power rewire your brain
I genuinely don't understand how the concept of someone being a rapist yet not raping every single person they come into contact with is somehow hard to grasp. Why are these people inserting themselves into a situation that does not involve them whatsoever?
“I met Jeffrey Dahmer and he never murdered me! Your honor, please, he could never have committed these crimes!”
Like seriously why tf are they bringing character evidence into this. His “character” has very little to do with how harshly he should be punished for his crimes; the nature and impact of his crimes should be what decides that. Unless he was personally offering to be celibate the rest of his life or something I don’t think there’s much of anything that counterbalances the crimes enough to reduce his sentence at all.
@@sideways5153this wasn’t character evidence used in the trial. This type of letter is written after a person has been convicted and are typically not released publicly, but rather are intended for the judge to consider when determining the sentence.
I hate how Mila deliberately phrased it that their hearts go out "to anyone who's ever been a victim" WITHOUT apologizing to the victims OF DANNY MASTERSON -- the people they directly harmed. It still implies that maybe Danny's victims weren't really victims, which is the implication that people are upset about. It makes me really angry. Danny is already sentenced. He got the mandatory sentence. What would it have hurt them -- or even Danny -- for them to apologize to the actual people Danny assaulted and whom they harmed with their stupid letters? It adds insult to injury. Or, really, it adds more insult and injury to insult and injury.
I keep seeing people say they personally knew the victims too. That’s the worst part to me.
I wish they would have just straight up said that they don't believe he did it instead of waffling around that they believe in the justice system and care about victims.
@@BelligerentBarbie My mom is a pediatric forensic psychologist. You'd be horrified to know how many people personally know a victim and a rapist and side with the rapist. It's truly incomprehensible to me how callous people can be to one another.
@@morganqorishchi8181 I think it’s because many people like things they way they are, to the point where they will get angry and violent when things don’t stay the same.
So when awful shit like that happens in a friends group, they want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn’t happen, even going after the victim for not letting it go.
I believe the church of Scientology would have forced them to make the letters anyways. That "Church" *LOVES* to harass people and protect. IDK if that helps you feel better, but I just want you to know this is just the tip of the iceberg. Their psychos. They stalk and assualt former members and kill their pets.
Celebrities join because they know their paying for a community's protection; (yes they have to pay of shit ton of money).
But by the time celebs want to leave its too late. The church makes them divulge their darkest secrets, than they use it against the people in church if they try to leave or need to be controlled. They also dont believe in medication which is how John Travoltas son died.
Using "man" and "girl" in the same sentence or example of dating or a couple is an immediate red flag.
Not being funny, but you mean like instead of saying “man and woman” or “boy and girl” ? Like calling the woman a girl but the man, a man.
@@backdoorsluts_9 Yes, exactly.
It seems that "man" and "girl" in the same sentence is a red flag for you, but not "woman" and "boy". Sexist much?
@@vulc1but who said it isn't? your comment seems so weird and uncalled for... projecting much?
@@vulc1where did they ever say that?
"He has always been nice to me!" always makes me go "well duh, you're not the type of person this guy was preying on"... like, that is so not a testament to the goodness of anyone ever 😂
I remember when Ellen Degeneres was getting called out for a toxic workplace. Ashton made a post saying "she was always nice to me when I was on the show"
Even Bundy was described as nice and charismatic and the last person you'd suspect.
I think part of the problem is we have this colloquial image of a monster as standing out negatively by being weird or ugly, which is very rarely true.
So simple so elegant lol
Josh peck said that about dan Schneider and everyone knows what a creep that man is
@@charamia9402 Yeah, like. Jim Jones was also described as nice and polite and a good man.
Fucker ended up forcing people to drink poisoned flavor-aid, sometimes at gunpoint, and literally gunned the rest of his congregation down.
Like maybe giving people fame and power is drawing in bastards, so _weird_ /s
I had a very close friend of mine whom I've known from the age of 14 years old on into my late 20's. He was basically like a brother to me and I cared so much for him, but the second I found out that he was arrested for physically abusing his 3 month old son, he was dead to me. Once you've done something that evil, there's no coming back from that. It baffles me when people (celebrities or not) CHOOSE to support or further associate with those they know did despicable things. It's so sickening.
EXACTLY choose to support the victims. Let the abusers go to jail and get what they deserve. I’m so sorry to the child who was abused. You must feel somewhat traumatized by the event (even just hearing about kids being abused is so awful). I hope u have better people around u who will always stand for the right thing ❤
I’m really sorry for what happened. There is a difference, someone who is arrested isn’t guilty. Else we wouldn’t have trails. Abuse is so powerful and sadly people abuse that to tar people.
Yeah my ex was charged with neglect and aggravated assault against his five-month-old and his wife defended him and tried to say he just had PND. Unfortunately she probably has no idea that he's also a pedophile because his parents pretend it didn't happen and he was a minor at the time.
I can't imagine a man hurting my baby and then turning around and defending him.
So sickening! It’s baffling
@@mmabennyj Yes, but most rapists are never convicted.
Does Mila HONESTLY think that, if he had opportunity, he wouldn't have done the same thing to her? The only thing that probably saved her was the fact that she was a high profile celebrity, and he would NOT get away with it, had it been someone like her.
The thing is, in forensic psychology, there are some men who assault others and not their friends... and they usually assault their friends' children instead. Even she honestly thought he wouldn't hurt her, MA'AM YOU HAVE A CHILD! If anything her thinking that makes it worse, not better.
Even if he never did that to her, Mila was very young in the show, so we have no clue what happened behind the scenes since the interviews are very eerie
@@cirquedefreak7329someone did post a cryptic message about her "forgetting" how things really were back then..
@@cirquedefreak7329apparently there was some weird stuff- not a 70s show fan so i can't say what off the top of my head but i'm pretty sure there was some romantic and maaaybe sexual stuff btwn mila and danny? or another male adult co-star. correct me if im wrong tho
The biggest factor is that Mila is not a scientologist. In scientology they say that everything that happens to you is because you were not strong enough to repel it, and they actively work to bury any assault charges or illegal activities from their high profile members. If he had attacked Mila she would have no reason to go to the police, whereas the women he assaulted lost their entire lives and were harassed for twenty years because of scientology.
What pissed me off about Ashton's letter was he said "I know the victims wants justice but I hope my testament is taken into consideration" so he's saying I know the victims want justice but I hope you listen to me and give him a light sentence. Ashton and Mila should be ashamed. Publicly they're victim advocates but privately they're begging for leniency for their convicted rapist bestie.
He knew the woman. But he can't just talk directly to them and apologize?
@@charisma-hornum-friesbecause he dislikes them for having done this to his friend. He’s such a douche!
Burn!!!!
@@charisma-hornum-fries I don't think they care about the victims.
No he needs to be investigated along with his wife.
I was SA-ed at 18 in college by the guy I was seeing at the time. We shared our friend group. Almost all of them were asked to write these letters for the case. It was so hurtful to see people I loved paint this man who did awful things to me as a saint because he was nice to them. Thank you so much for pointing out all the ways this is absolutely disgraceful and hurtful.
I hope the scumbag who did that to you paid the price for it, I hope your “friends” have lived with regret, and I hope you have found as much peace/clarity/happiness as possible in the time since your horrific ordeal. I can’t imagine it ever goes away in your mind but hopefully you have a strong support system in your family/friend circle. If not, this internet stranger supports you wholeheartedly.
It angers me just imagining this. I’d be blind with rage. I’m really sorry about that. 😢
That’s terrible, I’m sorry that happened to you. When karma hits him he’s gonna pay sis!
My heart breaks for you and I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that. I have gone through something similar but was too scared to take legal action or get police involved for this very reason. I just honestly wanted to forget everything. You are strong for standing up to that monster who did those things to you. I know I don't know you but I am so proud of you. ❤
Forgive my ignorance but how do you get SA'd by someone you were seeing? Were you guys already having sex?
I don’t care how important you are in my life, you are DEAD to me if you do anything as heinous as this. Why would anyone want to keep someone like that around?
Honestly, I wouldn’t hold it against them if they had just decided to continue having a relationship with DM, writing him letters and such. I mean, I wouldn’t, but the person he was to AK and MK was real, too. But this was so much grosser: they actually argued he shouldn’t go to prison so he could continue to raise a daughter. Because rapists are great role models! Gross.
@@monabear7287he hid his Evil behavior from them and betrayed their trust that he was a good guy. The actions he did speak louder than the sweet lies he told people.
Oh they even want to leave their children with him🫠
If you've been in a situation where an important person in your life committed a heinous crime and you were able to completely cut them out of your life physically and emotionally, good for you.
But if you haven't been through that, it's gonna be very difficult. The idea that someone you love committed a heinous crime is going to be difficult to deal with. You'll want to believe that the accusations are not true, no matter how damning the evidence is, and if the accusations are 100% true, you will always have an irrational feeling in the back of your mind that will be in denial of it. If they will someday be released from jail, you're going to have an emotional conflict on whether seeing them would be justified.
@@Mr_DPZsooo true, i'm not defending kutcher or kunis at all, but people just talk without experiencing that awful betrayal from somebody you love
Their “apology” was giving “sorry you were offended”. I’m glad the victims got justice and I hope they were retraumatized by anyone who tried to defend that monster
don't you mean you hope they weren't retraumatized?
*weren’t!
u mean werent...
girl, very big typo you got there. please correct it.
Your typo is a big oof but I'm glad you focused your attention on the victims because we as a society need to do that tbh.
Imagine being the judge who gave him 30 years and you had to read this mess about how these people would leave their kids with a convicted rapist.
It’s thirty years to life: he gets a chance at parole at thirty years.
@@justkiddin84 He’ll be in his 70s. He’ll get parole. It’s 30 years, assuming he makes it that long. Or doesn’t get commuted by a Scientology friendly Governor or compassionate release for ill health
That would be an entirely different 70s show. I can't believe they wrote letters for him. Obviously, the person you knew was a Lie. The fact that they won't admit that is what bothers me.
Disgusting. I use to like them but if someone did something that awful and you defend them....that's just sick
My husband and friend both work in jails in different parts of the country. They agree that the men convicted of rape & sexual assault are ALWAYS appear to be the kindest, most thoughtful, and charismatic inmates. I asked my friend why she thought this was, and she (chillingly!) said they had to be in order to commit those crimes…
1 million percent YES. No one will let their guard down with a known creep ( at least I hope not). These hidden deviants are on a whole ‘nother level smh . Edit to add - ESPECIALLY the ones who prey on children
Yea and most date rapes are committed by people the victim knew and not creepy strangers waiting in a dark alleyway. They are nice and friendly to gain trust. Most are manipulative and know what to say in any situation.
You'd think with Ashton and Mila being advocates for victims they'd know that a rapist has to be nice and charming. Danny didn't grab random women off the street, these were women that he knew.
@@snooker7107 rape is about power and control
@@jessiroseanne Mila and Ashton also knew the victims, very well too!!
The way people treat Megan after she was the one who got shot has been absolutely disgusting. I love that she just let it roll off her and continued to have an amazing career. If Bogos isn't stuck in your head, are you really even living in 2023?
Exactly the same thing that happened to Janet Jackson. It's always black women who has it the hardest. Absolutely disgusting the number of violent black men abuser's are still successful in the industry.
The misogynoir is really hard not to see. If someone said a mean thing about a white celeb, the internet would be up in arms. People don't even seem to ever bring up Megan's situation.
They probably would only pay the story any mind if she actually passed away. Thank god she didn't.
Thank you! What Megan went through as completely disgusting and it was mainly by black ppl. However, as a huge fan of Meg's I can attest to thr fact that it has affected her greatly as a matter of fact. 😢 She has talked about how it's affected her. Anyway, I'm glad that's she's moving passed this horrible ordeal & continue to have success.
A black woman who has as much power and influence, Rihanna, her abuser is still wildly successful… it’s fucked
Ohhh and it made me sick when male rappers who were all "Team Tory" then flipped once the sentencing hit. Like? Bro that is not the enlightened move you think it is. You've already outed yourself as an asshat.
Considering how difficult it is to get a conviction for SA too, and how LONG Danny has been sentenced for, makes it VERY clear he DEFINITELY did some seriously HEINOUS things as well, so that really just adds salt into the wound with Ashton and Mila defending him.
At most, depending on the stats you look at, 2% of SAs result in convictions. I have no doubt that this man did not only what he's accused of but also probably committed terrible crimes we're unaware of that he hasn't faced consequences for.
THIS ONE.
It's always hard to deal with SA cases which happened years in the past because how you even gather evidence for it in the first place? And how you make sure it's genuine evidence? It also doesn't help many malicious actors nowadays do fake SA reports to harm someone they don't like or can get something out of.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino With all due respect, the rates of false reports are...very low. And the rates of assault or rape that go without an arrest or have an arrest that never goes to prison are astronomically high. Adding to that, the majority of rape and SAs aren't even reported to the police out of fear of not being taken seriously or fear of retribution from their assailant among other reasons.
I'm a lot more likely to believe a victim because statistically they're probably telling the truth. I don't think the rate of false reports out of all the ones reported, which doesn't even account for the actual rates of SA and rape, being literally in the single digits of percentages makes up for the fact that an even lower percentage of rapists ever see a day of prison for their crime.
Everyone can claim it's a false report or it's fake but that doesn't mean it is. The amount of false reports is wildly blown out of proportion. Which makes sense considering the patriarchal tendancy to defend men and rapists against all odds.
@@kiralonely1307speaking from personal experience and from what i have heard of a friend, their family member and other survivors of SA (CSA specificly in all these cases) i have spoken to online it is extremely difficuilt to even start processing it, let alone talk about it. Most of us didnt even realize what really happened to us until years have passed. Then add on top that if you report you have to deal with the police, who i as a trans woman can only see as predators themselves, and the court basicly retraumatizing you by interrogation. It is not suprising reports are so low. I really can not stress how important is is to take people and especialy children seriously when they talk about this.
I hate this shit. I was a witness in civil court for a friend getting out of an abusive relationship trying to get her dog back. I remember looking over at all the "character witnesses" of the abuser, all of them looking at US with disgust when we would say things we saw and experienced. I remember being so mad sitting there thinking "how can you be defending this person so hard when you're literally hearing the shit they've put this poor girl and her dog through?"
When I see celebrities defending some very obviously guilty people, I see that group of people with nothing but malice in their eyes while I testified on behalf of my friend.
I've been in the same position and the exact same thing happened. The "friend" group rallied around the child r*pist and said the child and his mom lied. Ultimately he was only charged and found guilty of stalking the mom and the child r*pe charges got dropped. The enablers are just about as dangerous and harm society as the perp.
I hope your friend got her dog back 😢
Im not sure who said this but I heard somewhere that abusers groom their character witnesses just as carefully as they do their victims. In many cases, people really dont see their friends or loved ones doing this. I think a great example is the comedian Daniel Sloss talking about when one of his friends assaulted another one of his friends and while he plays off the comedy, he notes that he would have never guessed the guy was like that and if he did, he never would have introduced him to his female friend knowing she could get hurt.
Yeah, Ashton and Mila both submitted letters thinking that ONLY the judge would read them. Nope!! Public arena baby once it's over (trial).🤣😊
Dangerous nonsense. Character letters / letters of support are supremely critical, especially for us non-celebrities. It's not about the victim(s) and it shouldn't be, not with our draconian justice system, where by being convicted you can be sent to a prison where you may find yourself being raped and tortured.
From your anecdote, you can kind of see why: you had nothing but hate for the defendant; in a fair system, that's not the attitude we want judges to have during sentencing. It's important that a judge hears from the defendant's friends, family, co-workers, etc. when they're deciding how much prison time they're about to do. Without the letters of support, judges would only really hear about the defendant via the prosecutor & those that accused them.
It's not an attempt to overturn the ruling (too bad, by the time letters of support go to the judge, the accused have already been convicted), it's just the last opportunity for the judge to hear about the guilty in some other fashion than the arguments made by the prosecution.
Funnily enough, having read the letters now, I think they probably played a roll in Masterson getting the full-shebang, the whole 30 years. They harp a lot on him being a good anti-drug guide when they were young, while not considering the fact that he used drugs & alcohol to rape these women. I bet you that put a bad taste in the judge's mouth, made sure he got the full sentence.
A grown man tried to assault me when I was 15. He had been told to stay away from me after making comments to me and even talking to my mom about me. In the aftermath of the attempted assault a woman defended him cause he never did anything to her and was nice to her. This woman never stopped to think he never said/did anything to her cause she was a grown woman with a husband and 4 kids, she wasn't young, she wasn't a child.
Edit: I'm reading the comments and it's sad how common this is.
same with my abuser, they are called "flying monkeys" coming to their defense.
He sounds awful man, I’m sorry you have to deal with a dude like that
There is a serious problem with the mindset around sexual assault. It illicits disgust immediately…but it’s almost like people focus their disgust toward the victims. I have seen firsthand the process people will go through in their minds trying to defend an abuser. It makes me sick.
That's absolutely awful. How do people not understand that someone who does terrible things doesn't ~exclusively~ do terrible things??
I wish y'all had all had me around y'all. I snitched on the cousin I was closest to when I was 19 and he got 10 years for grape. There's an entire side of my family that doesn't talk to me and says I ruined his life. He was out of jail and building his life and last year someone put 6 in him (🔫) and ended the world's suffering. His mother says I contributed to it because 20+ years ago, when he was on the run he came to our house and I heard another cousin talk about how he was running from the law, and I went to the cops and sang like a whole opera of canaries. I legit thought I was doing what everyone else would've done. Yet never once have I regretted it
My mum always says to never defend family, friends or anyone if there’s proof that they’ve done something wrong. They betrayed you and your support by doing the wrong thing in the first place. This is what these celebs need to remember. Even if they’re you’re friend, if they’ve done the wrong thing, they need to be punished.
This goes hard, right on mom ✊🏼
Plus by defending them you’re effectively enabling them to continue getting away with criminal acts
Feel like "done something wrong" is way too nebulous lol. I would absolutely defend a family member stealing baby formula to feed a hungry infant, despite the law and many others who would say it's wrong to steal. My mother always put it like "I'm not bailing you out if you get yourself into trouble."
I understand completely why Topher Grace wanted nothing to do with these people. He's the only 70s show star who didn't write a defense letter and the cast has implied he wasnt friendly with them, but he seems like the only decent guy from the show
Or he could be hiding shit too. If kind, loving people can be monsters, who’s to say anyone isn’t
wilmer and laura didn’t write any defense letters. i don’t believe they’ve said anything currently on the situation but are problematic on their own (wilmer has dated several 17 year olds and laura is a former scientologist, i believe she left)
@@dedstar2132at least he wasn't stupid enough to write a letter at least.
@@tiffanywardrop Being a former scientologist (yes she left) is about as problematic as being a former fry cook. Plenty of regular people get roped into cults, do nothing of note, then leave the cult. Especially when the cult is religion or fronts as religion. Nothing to say about Wilmer though, have heard stories he's just kind of a shitty person in general. I would personally have avoided any public involvement in the situation myself were I in her shoes. Nothing she could say is going to make the victims' lives better and simply not writing a letter has already moved her far way away from the nonsense Ashton and Mila pulled, who as far as I'm aware aren't scientologists and never were?
Edit: Read some comments Ashton was involved with Scientology in some way? Idk much about his or Mila's history outside of acting gigs.
People who do drugs are bad but a serial rapist who used drugs for his crimes deserves our love and compassion??? These people are unbelievable but.... unfortunately people behave like this all the time for their friends.
I think that was a nod to DM drugging his victims.
Yea, I love how they apperently won't cross that line
Exactly!
Danny Masterson himself is a raging alcoholic and needed medical intervention when he was first incarcerated. They are, of course, referring to smoking weed, yet when it came to making money, it was okay to portray a character that smoked pot. Hypocrisy and psychopathy go hand in hand.
Cosby: "Hey, stop using my moves!"
Don’t forget that Danny’s wife Bijou has been mocking the rape victims for years. Openly mocking them.
Not surprising. Her sister was forced to have an incestuous relationship with their father for years, until she got pregnant by him, and Bijou has mocked her, too
@@Magicme79 yup. I still can’t get over these letters
How has she been mocking them? I haven't heard this so I am curious
Such disgusting ppl. I can’t.
I haven't heard about this either.. could you give some details? I'm curious what she has said.
My favourite part about these character letter is the fact they're basically trying to make the judge feel bad about themselves for doing their actual job, like "shame on you, judge, now this poor little girl will grow up without her daddy, so cruel of you to do that"
This is a common trick with sentencing
@@slylover123every time it's so openly manipulative though that it never fails to amaze me
The one time in a billion where a judge actually does their job and they have to deal with this shit.
I honestly couldn't help but fucking laugh when I saw that. Not because I think it's actually funny. It's just that fucking pathetic. I'm sorry, but, Dear ol' Danny should have thought of that before he raped multiple women. His daughter is better off without her rapist father in her life
Yes the point of character statements is to give a more general perspective of a person's behavior *from personal accounts* of people who were around them in order to sway the judge one way or the other during sentencing. They do exist for good reason, even if this isn't a situation where they mattered. I didn't follow this mess closely so I don't know if any opposing character statements were provided, but this is common practice. A mother condemns the actions of her child for example but paints a sympathetic and understandable picture of *how* they got to where they were, the victim's mother condemns the actions of the perpetrator and paints a sympathetic and understandable picture of how their actions negatively impacted the victim and those the victim was close with and cared about, as well as how severely.
Dude if my friend were convicted of this, I’d be writing the letter of “they had me totally fooled and they deserve to be put away for life” like you have to be able to accept that everything you thought you knew about the person was a cover…. Sucks!! Great video
right I’d be recounting every single time they had done me dirty in fact
My dad was a character witness in a trial against one of his friends back in the 80's who SA'd a 16 year old. He made exactly that point in court: this man fooled everyone about this and other things, he WILL reoffend if allowed to walk. The man's brother also testified against him. Seriously, it's not hard to be decent about this.
Bruh!! This is it!! The way I’d be appalled I’d be screaming from the mountain tops I was bamboozled!
@@MsMizz1 RIGHT?! Like I can't comprehend finding out your friend did some disgraceful shit like that and then still trying to bat for them? Especially when there's proof?!
This has been making me think a lot about Demi Moore, Ashton's first wife. She was really open in her memoir about how she was sexually assaulted as a teenager and how she didn't feel like she could trust any of the adults around her to take care of her or believe her, and how the experience completely changed her life and still affects her. I don't think she ever ended up legally pursuing a case against her assaulter. I can't imagine going through something like that and then later in life having your ex husband defend a rapist's "good character" like this.
😢
Yet had a 3some that left them in divorce
@@MeadowsMiniFarm what’s the relevance here buddy
Don't Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher founded an organization Thorn: Digital Defenders of Children
Danny Masterson received a vigorous defense, including decades of the Church of Scientology running interference for him. He suffers no mental impairment that would impact his ability to know that his actions were illegal. This was not a nonviolent crime or a crime of poverty that might warrant leniency. His friends could have just let the system play out here and not tried to intervene on his behalf, unless they’re afraid of the Church of Scientology.
And I don’t know why Kutcher or Kunis didn’t know the letters would be part of the public record. Dumbasses.
Abusers are WELL KNOWN for being super great to their friends. That's why so many doubt victims when they come forward. Because of the mask the abusers wear among their inner circle. That's the game. You would never think these people are awful because they aren't awful TO YOU. But you're not their target. That's why.
yes, exactly. They don't just groom the victims. They groom an entire community
When I was raped he confessed doing it to me to our entire friend group, and they all decided the best was to forgive him and side with him. My ex best friend ended up marrying him after the fact too. Keep in mind this was a person I dated for 3 years, starting at 15. He was also 3 years older than me.
oh my gosh i am so sorry you had to go through that. i hope you have better people in your life now.
@@loveydovey3631 I have good people in my life now! I just learned that unfortunately most people are shit
I'm really sorry that happened. They all need more education that this shit ain't right. Especially your ex best friend bcoz she put herself in a terrible position.
@@lynxlubbpeeps education won’t help. They all knew it was evil and even said so, but loyalty was more important to them I guess and they all knew him first.
As far as her, I mean I feel torn. Part of me is hurt, betrayed, angry etc and is kinda just like “fuck her I hope she’s miserable” and the other part of me worries about her and always will. Healthy people don’t just chose to be with rapists knowingly and I know she had/has trauma from being sexually abused growing up as well. Maybe her life experience just made it too normal for her. Idk. I just hope she’s not being abused like I was, although I know she probably is.
I don’t like her but I don’t think anyone should be abused even if they put themselves in that situation. Her choice though I guess.
I almost threw up reading that. I know I'm a guy so my lived experience is different than yours but I was raped and I wasn't believed by my best friend, but that was just one rejection. To endure an entire group siding against you... my heart really breaks for you, that's absolutely horrific. That's monstrous. I hope you know you didn't deserve that, that you deserve people who side with you and that you're a better person than all of them put together. I really wish you the best on your journey towards healing. It's long and hard but we'll both get there.
In highschool, a girl i knew was SA'd by her close friend. Nobody in the school except a few believed her, some even berated her for not talking about it immediately(despite her not being able to as it was an active case) They all said "he was too nice to do that." she had to literally go into online school just to get through some because people treated her so horribly. all cuz they would rather believe he's too nice for that. He was convicted as guilty and she had a restraining order against him. But he's "just such a nice guy" right?
that's terrible...
I hate victim blaming. No victim is ever "good enough" for people to care about. She's a liar, then she should have said something sooner, she's somehow still in the wrong even after the guy was found guilty - it's like no matter how bad the trauma is, nothing ever outweighs how much other people like the perpetrator in terms of importance. Society is sick.
Heartbreaking
“The issue isn’t with how he conducts himself around adults or friends, the issue is how he conducted himself around women when no one else was watching.”
This 💯
long time lurker, first time commenter. i’m 30 now- 10 years ago, in college, a good friend of mine was raped by a man who until then was also a good friend of mine. The next day, I dropped him and stood with my friend that he had attacked. The rest of the group did not. “I just can’t lose [rapist’s name]” is something someone actually said to me. I will never agree with the people who did not turn on him, but I understand ~how~ they made it ok for themselves. Because for me, accepting that he was so loving to me and at the same time so violent and had this whole dimension I never knew - it upended my whole world. Its a profound, physical and emotional grief that I went through. I see how other people do not want to go through it. But you HAVE TO. Your friend is a rapist. He is the not the man you knew. He tricked you, and people have been profoundly hurt and victimized in his wake. You have to cope and get over it because the victims fucking need you NOW. You have to put your pain aside and fight for the victim, however they need.
Thank you for being the support your friend absolutely needed when others didn't have the courage to. It is life saving to have someone like you when dealing with that kind of trauma, so I hope you know a lot of people out here are proud of you :)
You did the right thing! Screw the rest of your friends that didn't stick up/side with the victim! I have many reasons why I chose to never have any kids of my own, but the world we live in today (how sick and twisted it is/has become) is definitely one of the reasons why. I know what was done to me as a child and I couldn't even imagine bringing and innocent child into the world we live in today! And what happened to me was back in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's! It seems it just gets worse and worse!
People refuse to work through their grief until they are forced to, be it a someone dying, or just your image of them because if you do try to work through it, you have to accept that things will never return to what they were and it's just sooo much more comfortable to live in denial.
You're an amazing person, and I'm so glad that your friend had you to stand with them, thank you for sharing this story with us.
Thank you so much. I went through this in hs, almost all of his very close friends took my word but unfortunately some didn't and most were my friends too. I'll always be grateful to those who did. He actually pled guilty, and even then some stood by him. Using this same logic of well he was nice to me bs. I carried around those papers for years bc i felt like i had to prove that he pled guilty.. since out of court he denied it. Well, until he did it to 3 more women then everyone believed me. You're a great friend for that and I know it meant the world to your friend.
A loyal friend is valuable (and rare in this situation) good on u.
When K+K decided to write the letters they thought no one would be the wiser bc that’s what DM’s lawyer told them (“the letters will be sealed by the judge.”). I guess they didn’t realize or remember _lawyers lie._ They requested the judge to seal them. Request denied, son.
That’s the anger seen in the video. But there’s so much more to this story between Masterson + Kutcher + that serial kîller.
as the renowned drew gooden once said
"when your friend gets accused of something bad, your instinct is probably to come out and defend them because you never experienced that yourself, but your positive experience with someone doesn't change the negative experience someone might have had with them"
Rebecca Watson recently pointed out Aston's charity is terribly corrupt. Definitely worth a look at.
Anyone else remember when Ashton talked about counting the days until 15 year old Hillary Duff became legal? Gross…
Yea there's a couple of people who have dug that up and posted it again. It needs to make the rounds again on the internet. He also mentions the Olsen twins because they were also under 18 at the time.
I was a teen during the 2000s (well actually my age lined up perfectly with the years, so in 2001 I was 11, 2002 I was 12 etc.
You may already be aware but the progres in social attitudes towards women & girls/sexism/feminism and rape culture, although its *not where it needs to be now at all*, was so much worse pre-2010s. Honestly pre-2015 if I'm being honest.
When I tell you men & boys - regardless of how egalitarian they felt they were - were comfortable saying this shit in polite company with no public backlash, I'm not kidding. Is that an excuse for what happened then? Nope. Is it an excuse now? Nope. BUT.
As someone who lived through that era, believe me when I say that the reason Ashton's (probably) off-hand comment didn't get flagged then was because his was filled with the least malice. I honestly believe he was engaging in that type of bro-ish behaviour unseriously, because there were much more vile and egregious examples I can think of, and he was likely stating in a way "this is what other dudes want".
Yeah but if anyone wants a peek back into the horror of pre-2015, see "official countdowns" for the Olsen twins (website and everything!) Emma Watson, Shiloh Jolie (who was a toddler when that started I think), and many, many others. And young girls in Hollywood who came up in the 70s - 90s had it even worse: see Brooke Shields being PUBLICALLY and remorselessly sexualised at 10 years old. Ten. I'm not kidding. A lot of those women have since given interviews where they talk about how that damaged & affected them.
I think some creeps even still did it for Billie Eilish, Taylor Swift, Millie Bobbie Brown etc.
What was interesting about that was that he said that on his show how she was going to be in a movie called cheaper by the dozen...he was in the movie with her...imagine how she felt. Ugh..
I'm pretty sure that the video you're talking about was making fun of creepy guys who actually count down the days when celebrity girls become 18.
@@K-10-limitlesshe made a joke about it when she got punk’d
If you’ve known someone intimately for 25 years and the best character example you can think of is them not letting some drunk man publicly berate their girlfriend in a pizza place then that is sad. Even super evil people do good things in front of others to maintain a positive public image so they can gaslight those they are abusing behind the curtain and cast doubt on their statements if they choose to speak up, kind of like in .. oh I don’t know, this exact situation?
🎯🎯🎯🎯
I'm sorry, but how could someone not have done more than a SINGLE good thing in 25 years? Like, 25 years, a quarter of your life, and that's the best thing you've done..?
I understand the point is to bring up one thing in particular so it stays in your audiences' minds, but legit the best thing you've done in a quarter of your life is barely above the bare minimum.
It’s insane the amount of communal narcissism these celebrities have. Starting with telling everyone they are philanthropists etc. why does it seem like an excuse.
I feel like they use it as a “proof I’m a good person” shield/badge like how Mr.beast does
@@Echoingsunflowers981 I feel like you're ascribing malice to Jimmy where there isn't any. He's openly stated that his efforts are not a solution to the problems of society and the government *should* be the one helping any of these needy people who show up in his content. Charity drives clicks, and the people who get the free shit have a little bit of their burdens alleviated. Don't think he has ever personally put himself up on a pedestal about his charity work. Plenty of criticism to be had about how capitalism incentivizes the kind of "feel good" content he produces alongside his goofier stuff without foisting upon him stances or beliefs he has never expressed or even hinted at.
"We'll continue to stand with victims." Yeah, they sure as hell won't stand with them. Thank you for bringing awareness to this.
The point Ashton made about Danny’s daughter not having a father really hit home with me because my mom told me something similar when I tried reporting her bf since she’d just gotten pregnant. Just because someone’s a parent doesn’t give them the automatic right to not be held accountable & warps the perspective of the victims since they’re dealing with enough, they don’t need someone coming to the defense of someone who abused them.
Same! It upsets me so much! Oh so you are concerned that her father going to prison for life will affect the daughter? What about the women he victimized who have been dealing with the aftermath for 20 years? They were someone’s daughters too! Danny ruined his daughters life on his own by being someone who did vile things and thinking those women he hurt didn’t matter. This isn’t the fault of the justice system for putting him behind bars, it’s his own dang fault. His daughter will grow up without a father, which is terrible, especially when she finds out in the future why it happened. Danny can blame no one else but himself for that.
What girl wants a rapist for a father figure?
@@sunkissed7377I think the point you made can‘t be emphasized often enough. The perpetrator made their own choices, all consequences included. Everything happening when someone reports their crimes is collateral damage that they have caused themselves.
I also think the specific point about not reporting someone because their child will grow up fatherless is extremely toxic. 😵💫 Imagine having someone assault someone else, people finding out about it and them not facing any repercussions - what kind of role model are they going to be for a child? And what kind of crazy dynamics is this going to create in a family?
as someone's daughter, i would rather having a father that's in prison and not having a rapist dad at my house, why would a judge think "yeah this man is a rapist but lets get him home to his daughter"
Besides all of this, what kind of values would he teach his daughter in the long run? I don't think he would treat her very nice to begin with. Maybe even saying stuff like "He is a man and he can do whatever to you", you know?
“We support victims” gets me every time like girl boss you did actually the OPPOSITE of that. You support the rapist…
True. But also, now that I think about it, I just realized something.
I have to wonder if her saying that was her way of acknowledging publicly that they support Masterson by implying that he is somehow a victim. Despite the fact that they know damn well he's the exact opposite.
I know this word has been overused online, but if that was what she meant, then it's textbook gaslighting to... y'know, actual victims.
What makes me the angriest is that Ashton and Mila talk like they had no choice but to write these letters like it's part of the due process of the court when it's not! They had a choice to write these letters, just because they were asked to does not mean they have to. They were not subpoenaed to do so they had a choice and the chose to defend him. Disgusting.
I stongly suspect Ashton and Mila were blackmailed by Danny Masterson, which was why they sent letters. Their apologies seemed so emotionless.
Iggy saying she “wouldn’t defend an abuser” while defending someone with a history of being violent, against assault is crazy.
I had a former friend from college get convicted of having relations with her student (a minor). Before sentencing, she messaged me on FB asking for a character letter, and I explicitly told her no. Whatever friendship/relationship we had doesn't negate or excuse the pain her victim went through. She gets out of jail soon & I have no intention of rekindling the friendship. I understand how it feels like a betrayal when you think you know someone & the content of their character & then find out you were wrong, but defending their heinous actions is not the way to process that.
Oh you should have written a character letter. One stating how she abused and used your trust to illustrate her true terrible character
FINALLY someone is speaking on Ashton and Mila’s relationship. I remember years ago watching an interview where she said she had to lie about her age to get on the show. then getting flashbacks of how much she was s*xualized ESPECIALLY in early seasons absolutely disgusted me. She was a child, and now married to the man who helped, pretty much, groom her.
Even Fez on the show has been accused of heinous things. That show was a breeding ground.
Yea and people keep saying, well she lied about her age as if they didn't know how bad it was... She lied but they asked her if she was like 15 or 16 and she was 14 at the time. It's not like the people running the show were trying to make sure she was 18. On top of that, regardless of how much age she lied about, they KNEW by the time she signed the paperwork before starting to work just how young she was.
She's trauma bomded. Plus her parents knew how old she was, how did they feel watching her "work?"
Fez?? Oh no what did he do?
Why do people always wonder how they studio could hire her so young but never wonder how could the freaking parents vouch for her? They knew what the show was gonna be about and that everyone was older than her. They didn’t care, they sold their daughter to the industry? Exactly how did Ashton groom her when he was hired and doing his job? Yeah he could have quit but I’m sure most of you wouldn’t quit your job if you found out one of your coworkers was underage. Anyway to me this looks disgusting on the parents more than anyone else.
@Esterferreiradecastro ALOT.
1. He dated a 15 year old Mandy Moore when he was 20 and lied about taking her virginity on the Howard Stern show.
2. He dated 17 year old Lindsay Lohan when he was 25 and even got her to guest star on That 70s show.
3. He pursued Demi Lovato when she was 17, and he was 29 and was on and off with her for years. Demi even wrote a song about it last year called "29."
He's probably done more, but these are the first things that come to mind.
Many things can be true at once. I went to school with this really sweet, gentle guy. He was honestly so kind, wouldn’t hurt a fly. We found out a couple years later after leaving school that on at least 3 separate occasions he had violently dragged women into the bushes (not far from where the school was) to rape and force them to perform oral sex on him. Never ever be shocked. You can never vouch for anyone!
I knew someone similar, he was very quiet funny nice but a little before he was shot and killed it came out he was a rapist of the girls in the younger grades and best believe everyone distanced themselves from him😭😭
@@heyimneverland8451 yikes! Honestly it can be anyone.. and to come on the internet to defend someone you’re subscribed to but have ever met in your life is crazy to me! I like Russel (these days) but I wouldn’t put it past him. I’d rather sit back and see how everything unfolds.
I've experienced something similar. I was friends with a guy who seemed like the kindest, friendliest guy. I'd have expected him to be the type to defend a woman being abused.
Then one day he got arrested for beating his girlfriend, holding her hostage and then threatening to murder a mutual friend who had been there when it all happened. He's still in prison for it to this day. I'm still shocked when I think about it. He's the last person I'd ever have guessed would be that way, but people can be very different behind closed doors. It actually kind of scares me how evil he was and how I didn't see it at all.
He got a minimum of 8 years in prison I think, but his latest release date is in 2043 or something like that.
In Australia there is currently a petition trying to ban character references from CSA court hearings, called "Your Reference Ain't Relevant".
As a survivor of CSA, we need that to be a thing here, too. No reference is relevant or could possibly matter in the context of this crime.
Out of genuine curiosity and a will to learn, what are 'character references' and why is it important that they're banned?
@@sundalosketch4769
I have tried to illustrate both things below. What a character reference is and why it's important that they're banned.
A character letter/character reference is something I can provide a judge with to make them aware of how good a person the woman who deliberately shoved you down a flight of stairs is. I can write "This woman is my best friend. She has never shoved me down a flight of stairs. I have never seen her harm anybody in any way all these times that we've hung out together. Therefore, she is a person who doesn't normally shove people down flights of stairs. And she always took really good care of my horse, whenever I asked her to. Even when it was short notice."
Such character letters/character references are meant to help a judge form a more complete picture of the person they're about to sentence.
But it doesn't matter how my best friend has treated me. It's irrelevant how willing she was to take care of my horse. It doesn't matter that I've never seen her harm anyone. Because what does that prove? That she's incapable of throwing someone down a flight of stairs? That she'd normally never do that and that the time she threw YOU down a flight of stairs must have been a one-time thing, with no such cases before and therefore no possible such cases after? No. It only proves, at best, that those times when she and I hung out together, she didn't do such a thing. It doesn't even prove that she, for example, didn't kick my horse at some point. It just means that I, personally, as an individual, have not seen her commit any such crime.
There are things I could say about you. I have for example never experienced you use the word "omelette". Does that mean you've never used that word? Of course not. My experiences with you are limited to, well, my experiences with you. I can't say anything about you that might possibly counter the claim that you've threatened to throw an omelette at a neighbour of yours. How could it?
You may be familiar with someone not being sentenced less harshly because "they have no prior criminal record". I find that logic equally flawed. I don't have a criminal record. Does that mean I've never committed a crime? No. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. My lack of criminal record proves almost nothing apart from, well, the fact that I don't have a criminal record.
@@camelopardalis84 Yeah I can definitely see how silly and time-wastey character references are. Especially with how equally flawed the concept seems to be when put on paper. It would have to rely on those making such letters to be honest saints with no absolute bias, despite vouching for the offender's innocence.
Every criminal has started from somewhere, anyone can easily become one, just because they haven't done something bad before doesn't mean they're not capable of starting down the path towards criminality behind one's back. Idk why people would honestly believe that.
Thank you very much for the in-depth explanation! It was very helpful in getting me to understand it a lot more now
@@sundalosketch4769 Sadly, there are a lot of things in criminal law that simply don't make sense and need to stop being a thing.
And you're very welcome. I'm glad I was able to help. Had I been further along with the video, I could have just said that the letters D'Angelo read from in this video are both character letters/character references. Or rather, character references in letter form. (But alas, this wasn't all you asked about. :))
Imagine being Ashton Kutcher's kid and hearing that your father would not hesitate to place you on his *convicted* r*pist friend's care, well after he was found guilty💀Not even that celebrity money can cover the amount of therapy needed
jeez, i didn't even think about that
Especially after reading "Know my Name" by Chanel Miller, I'm competely horrified by the contrast between how survivors of sexual violence and their assaultants are treated in court. The use of "character witnesses" to downplay the crimes vs the slander their victims experience is heartbreaking and reflects an extremely messed up and disgusting attitude towards sexual violence.
I dont understand why this is even allowed honestly. Evidence is evidence, courts shouldnt give a flying fuck about their characters because thats how justice gets even more skewed.
Right like if a guy is a serial killer, or serial robber or arsonist, people wouldn’t give a fuck about character witnesses. But rape is somehow different???? Its so fucked
God is good cos he’s good to me 🤦♀️
The man who SA'ed me since I was about 6 years old till I was about 14 or 15 was my aunt's husband. He has always been a popular figure in our small community, always loud and helped others financially or through resources. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he completely destroyed my innocence and took away a massive part of my childhood, and which still traumatizes me to this day. After I came out about it to my parents, we broke all contact with him and my aunt's family and slowly the whole family found out. My parents didnt publicize it for the sake of my aunt and her son, my cousin. But when other's found out, like other female members of the family they started confiding to my mom how they too have been harassed or make uncomfortable by this man, or how he even touched some of them inappropriately. BUT WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE BEFORE!!! I am mad at all of them. I get where they were coming from, but did it never occur to the older ones to tell their daughters or sisters to be careful with this man. They instead always talked about how amazing this man was, to the point that 13 year old me had to tell myself that maybe I am being delusional and this "great" man cant do shit like that.
Ashton Kutcher: “We’re fathers”
Also Ashton Kutcher: Started doing sexual stuff with Mila Kunis when she was a 14 year old child on set and he was like 19
Ashton and Mila knew some of the victims and know Danny admitted to the crimes. Their letters and their "apology" video are gross, gross, GROSS.
Yep gross 🤢
This whole supposed "apology" is all about "how dare you criticize us", there's no regret or remorse, just their immense self righteousness about how great they are. People complain about cancel culture but I don't know how else to reach these high powered celebrities in their bubbles, I'll personally stop to watch any movie or show they're in and I hope many other people do too.
@@c.w.8200 perfectly stated. Let's pop that bubble. Idiots.
@@c.w.8200Is Asthon even in any good movies? Lol
another example of celebrities being straight-up DETACHED from reality. and thinking because their (also famous) friend is someone they know, how could they ever do something terrible? whole time the evidence is literally being spelled out.
To be fair, EVERYONE does this - it's not just a celebrity thing. It does, however worsen when the accused/guilty holds a higher social status, be that fame, gender, wealth, race, religion, etc. Most humans get hardcore cognitive dissonance when it comes to accepting that someone they know/like/respect has done bad things.
@@Sleipnirseight this is facts
@@Sleipnirseightbut they have definitive evidence. It's not like it wasn't proven. This is pure evil sticking up for their own kind
Actually, Ashton Kutcher’s “charity” hasn’t raised much money for victims of trafficking AT ALL, because ONLY %20 of their money actually goes towards helping people, while the other %80 goes to paying their employees
A lot of these anti-trafficking charities are shady. They don't even show accurate numbers on the issue (there's a lot more nuance to the situation according to more legit sources). It's purely a PR move in a lot of cases to have a charity.
Ashton has all this money at his disposal and he's (allegedly) relying on donations to pay his employees???
The math ain't mathing on his end. What the fuck
When I was in my junior year of college my roommate was nearly SA-ed by a guy her friend was friends with. She only managed to stop him by pretending she wanted to turn down the AC in the hallway and instead going into my room and waking me up and telling me what was going on.
She hid in my bathroom while I scared him off. I don't remember the details exactly but she was so afraid of retaliation that she made me pretend she was sick and throwing up in my bathroom initially. He clearly didn't believe me so I had to get a little tougher than she would've liked but there wasn't no fvcking way I was going to let him see her again nor was I going back to sleep until he was out of the apartment.
When she told her friend what he did (stuff like shoving a finger down her throat) she refused to believe her. Eventually everyone in that friend group stopped being friends with my roommate because they didn't believe that "such a nice guy" like him would ever do that to a girl or it was just a misunderstanding.
When she left the room on her fake mission to turn down the AC, he was fully clothed. By the time I went to her room to tell him off he was down to his boxers. This stuff happens all the time, it's disgusting. Thankfully she found better friends.
The fact that Mila brought up how they ‘historically have shown [they support victims] through their actions’ proves in of itself she doesn’t give a singular flip about victims, she cares about her public image and her rose-colored view of the world. Absolutely disgusting from both of them, it’s always hard when people you think are allies turn out to be just as vapid and self-absorbed as the rest of celebrities, but the truth always comes out in the end. My sincere condolences to all of the victims of all of these pathetic excuses for people.
What she doesn't get is ok you've supported victims in the past, that means absolutely nothing now you've begged for leniency for a convicted rapist cause he was always nice to you. You can't publicly support victims and privately support a rapist. The two are mutually exclusive.
Kutcher made some creepy remarks on Punk'd back in the day as well.
@@cashargis6950 omg did you see the creepy shit he said about Hilary duff and the Olsen twins. How has he had everyone convinced he was a good guy for so long?
also the way she says it is very ~reading from a script~ and for an actress she could try a bit more to not sound forced to read some statement
Guys, she supports victims when her friends aren't involved... so she doesn't support victims 😢...
They didn't think the letters would come out. The fact they they wrote letters of support for Danny after he was convicted when Ashton is on the board of Thorn is absolutely disgusting
If you want to dig a little deeper, there are other YT videos about why he may have done this - Scientology, blackmail - it’s wild.
It really had the tone we are sorry you had to see the letters we thought would stay private
yes
yeh. Clearly they weren’t paying attention when the letters of support for Elizabeth Holmes came out. Those were a real treat. I remember cackling at the hilarity & wondering why no one had bothered to tell her partner & parents that these were meant to convince the judge to give her a **LESSER** sentence, not that she and her family are all psychopaths. Same with these clowns. I totally buy the theory that they’re terrified that the mastersons &/or Scientology will totally screw them over if they don’t comply with demands to support Danny. They’re all vile.
@@vbvermontI’ve heard some people claim Scientology is blackmailing people into defending him and some say it’s Scientology the one that’s putting him in jail and this all sounds like internet blabber where everyone’s just repeating what they hear and nobody has seen any concrete proof so I won’t invest myself much into any of these theories.
Ashton and Mila: "We believe all victims, except for those harmed by our famous friend."
What gets me about the That 70s Show situation is the casting calls for the leads specifically asked for either 16+ actors or 18+ actors to play teenagers, which is common when a show or movie is going to have mature themes. Mila lied about her age when she auditioned and they didn't find out until after she was cast in the role. Yeah, lying is wrong but she was a young teen trying to get into a competitive industry and I'm not going to put the blame on her...I WILL however, put blame on the showrunners for having no issues moving forward with what they had initially planned for a character intended to be played by an 18+ actor. They should have recast the role with someone who, like the rest of the lead actors, was over 18. Putting a minor in a situation where they have to act out a romantic storyline with a legally adult co-star on camera is wildly inappropriate and they KNEW that...but did it anyways. :/
Imagine being the victim of these heinous crimes and having to read about how great your aggressor is and 'he would never'. Even AFTER these abusers have been condamned and judged guilty, you have to be confronted with the people basically implying that you're lying because 'he's such a good man and a good father'. They're all goind to hell in gasoline drawers
This is why depression occurs at such high rates among survivors. Society traumatizes them on top of the horrific crime that already happened to them. We as a society fail survivors, full stop.
The audacity to say "Oh Danny has always been so kind to ME" yeah.... bc you're a man..? Not exactly the type of victim he likes to target lmao
Basically saying, 'well he didn't r*pe me, so I don't care'
Wow 😂 great point!!
This reminds me of a subplot in the Netflix show You. A woman who is a new friend of the main character tells him that this musician guy drugged and assaulted her when she was a teenager and her teen sister doesn’t believe her and hangs out with the musician anyway because he hasn’t done anything creepy (yet) to her. But he later tries to drug and assault her too after he’s sure she trusts her. This was eye-opening to me because, even if it’s obvious in hindsight, bad people will pretend to be nice to earn your trust before they betray you
Then reality and fiction began to blur when Chris D'elia had actual accusations of heinous behavior come out some time later
It was her little sister. The show is YOU season 2
Maybe it’s just me, but if my friend was found guilty of drugging and raping multiple people, that would immediately end the friendship.
As someone who was rworded and drugged by fentanyl (by an ex Toronto cop), I can absolutely tell you there is no justice, even with an INCREDIBLY RARE conviction.
I’m so sorry that happen to you. I hope you heal, beautiful heart.
I am so sorry for the sheer pain and trauma you have been put through, my husband and I just had this conversation in that sadly this piece of shit will appeal and likely spend little to no real time behind bars.
Wow I was so upset for a minute, it’s crazy how fast your believability goes down once I took a look at your pfp, people like that just want attention and will make stuff up to get it. I don’t trust the 50% chance being fake experiences of people who don’t even know what gender they are, they just say stuff try and get attention from random internet people. Also they cry when someone says they don’t instantly respect their “gender” too many red flags to believe a word they say.
@@PourItIn_MyTrophiesSome people don’t feel comfortable using it if not absolutely necessary, and some do it just incase of social media TOS rules. Either way, it’s their business what they want to say, and it really doesn’t concern you. Telling a r*pe victim to “grow up” for how they tell their story is really disgusting. People like you are disgusting. I really hope no one around you thinks to ask you for support if this happens to them. How about you take your own advice.
@drepearson3938 so what you took from this person's story is that they are childish for censoring a word that has very traumatic associations for them? Sounds like you're the one who needs to grow up 😊 I hope middle school is treating you well kiddo!
Nathan Pyle has a great and consistently relevant comic where two eagles are discussing whether or not they think an owl is a predator: "Of course not. He's never bothered me." "Exactly....No idea what Mr Mouse was going on about."
Yes I think of this one every time someone makes excuses for a predator.
Ohh that does sound very spot on
On the flip side, this is why people pay attention to how their date treats waitstaff during the “getting to know each other” period. It doesn’t matter that they treat you well, what matters is how they treat everyone in whatever position.
One of my dad's friends was accused of SA and he not only stood by the victim, he gave her a lift to the police station (this was the 80's, public transport was even worse than it is now) and threatened to beat his friend's ass if he came near the woman in question again. That's how a *real* man handles this situation - put yourself inbetween the assailant and the survivor and tell someone, "you gotta go through me".
Yesterday my ex boyfriend(who I am currently stuck on a lease with) told me in regards to the Danny masterson that he would do the same thing for his best friend since he was five. He said he doesn’t expect me to understand because I don’t have friends from my young childhood like that. He said he’d be upset but there’s more nuance to the situation and that there’s more to people when you’ve known them for that long. All I had to say to him is that you are who your friends are and if you chose to associate with a rapist you’re really no better and that he can’t understand because he’s never been a victim of rape or SA, and I in fact have. More than once. It was the least surprising thing I’ve ever heard a man say and yet I was still incredibly shocked and disappointed.
Glad he is an ex. Hope you can get out of that lease sooner rather than later because that is kind of terrifying.
@@c.cortez1508a lot of true colours have been coming out slowly over the time since we have broken up lol our lease isn’t up til January 🥲 my plan is to stick it out until December and just pay two rents for Jan. We are both doing a lot of staying at friends houses lol
Him pulling the “you wouldn’t understand because you haven’t had friends since childhood” phrase is bs and gaslighting. 1. Danny and Ashton were not friends “since childhood”, so the point is moot. 2. I have had a friend since childhood and if this crap had been pulled I would not be defending them.
I am sorry for all your experiences of betrayal. Including your current experience of the sudden, and shocking loss of the person you thought your ex was. I can relate, in a similar lived experience way, to everything you wrote. 🫂
@@daniellamcgee4251 it’s okay :) I’m sorry you’ve had to go thru similar things, it does really suck, but right now I am just grateful that he’s showing me his true colours, its making everything a lot easier to be honest. But people really do suck sometimes
I told my ex husband’s new fiancée that he r-worded me and she acted like she took me seriously at first. Then she completely left me on read and got back together with him.
She considers herself a feminist and an SA advocate. People will rationalize anything when it’s someone they love :/
First off, I’m so sorry you went through that. Trigger warning as my comment discusses r*pe, SA and r*pe-apologists.
Your last sentence reminded me of a documentary I watched about Phil Spector, a famous music producer who was convicted of murdering actress Lana Clarkson, shooting her dead in his house after pressuring her to come back to his.
I don’t doubt this was difficult for his daughter, but various women gave testimony at his trial about how he r-worded them in his home at gunpoint, becoming enraged after they tried to leave.
His daughter said, “I’m not calling them liars, and I STAND with survivors, but I don’t see how it’s relevant”. EVEN THOUGH it’s a clear pattern of behaviour from Spector which suggests he shot Lana after she tried to leave (supported by how she was wearing her jacket, bag and shoes when Spector murdered her).
I don’t know how she gels her survivor supporting stance with also saying their stories aren’t relevant; in any other case she would likely consider them ABSOLUTELY relevant. Of course it must be hard to deal with your dad being a monster but that was an incredibly insensitive take from her.
She also remained in regular contact with her dad until he died of covid in prison very recently and speaks of him incredibly fondly. Idk
@drepearson3938 People say r-worded because the actual word often gets your video/comment censored. It's just like the word unalive from tiktok, people are just trying to get around filters.
@@sprigganpandathanks for explaining this! I’ll be cautious from now on 👍🏾
I had something similar happen - she hit me up two years later to tell me he ended up assaulting her as well, in the same exact way 😭
It does seem like she advocates in favour of SA, true
I personally don’t know a single woman who hasn’t been a victim of assault by a man and it’s just heartbreaking to see the way even people who say they stand up for victims blatantly defend such a monstrous person and action. That being said, I really appreciate you covering topics like these, justified anger included, because people need to see and hear from those they admire and respect that this is wrong. Any way you paint it, it’s wrong. Keep doing what you’re doing, I’m so grateful for the way you use your platform.
It’s not all men, but it has been all women.
Same. Every woman I know has been assaulted by a man in some way whether it's groping, stalking, rape, molestation, kidnapping or an abusive relationship.
@@Aster_Risk Same here including myself, it’s so upsetting that so many people can relate. Literally every woman has experienced s/a in some way and it shouldn’t be that way, it makes me sick.
My ex was super friendly and defended women all the time.... while he was abusing and r*ping me. They do these "nice" things to get good guy points so when people come out against them their accuser sounds like a liar.
"Of course your perception of him is only based off of what he decided to reveal to you" couldn't have said it better myself 👏🏻👏🏻
I did this once--wrote a letter for someone who definitely provably did wrong. They were a child. I was their teacher. I just wrote a letter highlighting the different ways we, as a society, could have intervened, and encouraged he be charged as a minor because it had better supports. I passed along information that showed said student likely had a learning disability of some sort. That already made me super uncomfortable. Danny is an adult. He didn't need anyone to defend him. He made these choices over and over again.
Looks like you focused on merits and that's probably best in this kind of shitty situation... in Kutcher's case they focused on their feelings and beliefs, which adds manipulative layer to this whole situation - because they don't have anything solid to defend perpetuator or show him in good light, they only don't want him to be convicted because they don't like the idea, which is messed up too IMO
This video could not have been more well timed because the amount of people I've seen defending Russel Brand through social media about his good character.... "He helped me alot.... He never raped ME"..... The amount of hoops people will jump through to defend people THEY think are good is absolutely disturbing
I understand that it’s difficult to realize someone you thought you knew is capable of something as evil as rape, but to turn around and say the victims shouldn’t be believed because nothing happened to you is sick
Russell has been openly trash for years. Being a sexual assaulter does not surprise me.
Women who have been abused yet defending abusers has been the worst realization. It’s so fucking awful.
This is scary, because Ashton Kutcher made his reputation known as someone who fights against violence and wants to protect kids. But then in private he’s saying he would trust a convicted rapist around his kids?? And is defending his character, completing invalidating the victims?! Like we really can’t trust anyone..
Never. Ever. I mean ever trust a celebrity. We will never know them, and the power they have allows them to walk through life feeling invincible. I’m no “Hollywood is full of pedos” conspiracy theorist but power and money do sick things to people
That’s what upsets me the most about this whole thing. If it were someone like, P Diddy, I wouldn’t take it so hard. But Ashton Kutcher? Wtf???
i had a feeling that his rep was just bs
@@Beebz29kinda wondering if in truth your kid would be safer with Pdiddy, tbh
You can especially not trust celebrities that you don't know personally and only see on the television screen. Why you would ever consider trusting them is baffling.
That “apology” video was the definition of “I’m sorry you got offended”
"We support ALL victims, EVERYWHERE....except for these three victims. They can choke."
'We're sorry that those letters were made public to be read by you plebs.'
I was in an abusive relationship with someone who was an absolute sweetheart to my parents, including coming up with a beautiful idea for one of their memorials. It’s a mask.
¿Las celebridades entenderán realmente las dinámicas de poder? ¿Será que el dinero les nubla la empatía?
No es el dinero, es la codicia, la ambición y el narcisismo. Ahí tienes a Keanu Reeves, a quien no le hace falta dinero pero tampoco ha dejado que se le suba a la cabeza. Son pocos en realidad los que tienen los pies sobre la tierra. Pero todos los demás viven en una burbuja.
Gente pobre faz a mesma coisa, porque a nossa percepção dos outros fala mais alto do que qualquer outra coisa que outros tenham a dizer sobre quem a gente (acha que) conhece
I believe that Ashton Kutcher and Mika Juno’s are in denial. Someone who they were friends with since they teenagers has been convicted of serious crimes. That is a lot to accept and I’m not surprise that they fell into a delusion of denial.
Ashton Kutcher did the exact same thing when Ellen was accused of having a toxic work environment on her show
“She was a great person to me, a rich and famous celebrity, therefore she’s a great person to everyone!”
That is exactly what came to my mind first after learning that he defended yet another one of his celebrity friends. I guess he just can’t get it through his thick skull that they would never treat him this horribly because they see him as their equal and would never even try to exploit their power with him because he has the same amount of power. Sucky guy.
I came to the comment section deliberately to look for this comment
I was trying to remember who else Ashton Kutcher did this with, idk what’s wrong with his judgement
I was thinking of this exact thing because Drew Gooden made a video on it and did a really funny skit based on that specific comment. It's sad that it still holds up
D’Angelo, you’re allowed to be pissed off!! as someone who has been SAed at an extremely young age and has been groomed multiple times online, I find rape one of the most heinous acts a person can do. victims of rape (esp children) have historically never been taken seriously and it’s heartbreaking bc they’re always accused of lying or being “dramatic”. i’m considering writing a paper or filming a video about this sort of thing bc it’s something i heavily resonate with. thank you for making this video and speaking out against celebrities defending rapists, i really appreciate it.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and you are right sa is a horrible thing to happen to anyone
I'm sorry this happened to you, i want you to know it's not your fault and you are a great person ❤❤
One of the saddest and fucked up things about this is that Mila Kunis was basically groomed by Daniel and Ashton as a teenager, and now she’s married to one of them.
My Dad was abusive towards me growing up and caped for his father CSA-ing me, and my mother's father did the exact same, and she caped for him as well, and allowed these rapes and sexual abuses to keep happening. Their response was typically that of malignant narcissists and psychopathic people whose first, second, third, and 99th instinct is to save face and to cover their own asses.
They saw it, yet they pulled the narcissist card and lied, saying they knew nothing about it. They maintain that to this day. They'd rather live in denial to this day than protect their daughter.
My younger brother is 11 years younger than me, and I missed most of middle and high school to raise him. I am a strark contrast to his/our biological parents.
However, with an 11-year age gap, when I went off to college, our toxic bio-Dad and awful mother re-entered the picture, but they didn't abuse him nearly as much as they did me. He was a wanted child and a boy. He was good at math and science. Nevermind that I have two MS degrees and that I got full-ride scholarships to all 3 degrees; he is the favored one.
I cut the bio-parents out of my life due to their cruelty, homophobia, abuse, and the fact that they allowed me to be abused by their parents and that they refused to protect me or even acknowledge their role in it and in allowing their child to be sexually abused while they
ignored it and did nothing to stop it.
So it broke my heart when the child I raised for his first 14 years of his life cut me off when I cut my bio-parents off because of their cruel abuse.
He never saw them as abusers (except, in his words, for the minor abuses they did to him) and he sided with them too, even though I raised him alone, only 11 years older than him.
That did it for me. He wanted to reconcile without wanting to do any of the emotional work at his big age (25) and would rather sacrifice his relationship with the one person who ever loved him unconditionally (me) to continue living in ignorance and denial of incest and horrible abuse.
That's when I realized I have to let my brother go as a lost cause. He will be just like them because he already is, and he has betrayed me too many times to make uo for it, has never shown any desire to believe me or help me unless it benefits him (when he wanted to moan about how dad underestimated him once, which is absolutely nothing compared to the beatings I would get). It's heartbreaking to see someone I raised and loved more than anyone else turn out to be as much of a narcissist as his parents and relatives.
He never let me fully back into his life and I was never invited to his house, or to meet his GF, etc.
He lured me back after over 10 years NC with contacting me and encouraging me to move back to the city near where he and our bio-parents live, which has been hell for me, as he has no interest in getting to n know me, and I wonder if he did this bc our bio-parents asked him to be a spy for them. We hung out twice total, where he had ro prodded into admitting that he cut me off, and couldn't even own it or apologize for it.
I guess from now on, he's in the "someone I thought I knew that ended up n being a narcissist" category, which breaks my heart, because I raised him until he was 12, and gave up most of my teen years to do so.
His latest betrayal, where he reported my negative feelings to our bio-parents (a betrayal because we had agreed to keep conversations with each other just between us).
It's really hard to view this man who was a baby, whom I raised, who taught me what love is, betray and hurt me so horribly, and in a way that means nothing to him. I had no idea he was so cold-blooded. Everything about this breaks my heart.
I’m so sorry, that sounds extremely heartbreaking. It really sounds like you did your absolute best in raising him, and it’s terrible that he cut you off in such a horrible way. I don’t know that there’s anything I can say that would make things any better, but I’m sending hugs 💕
Didn’t Ashton do something similar when it came out that Ellen was a piece of 💩 ? I know it’s not as heavy as a situation. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it was in Jarvis or Drew’s vids about the workplace misconduct where they say “of course she was nice to you. You’re Ashton f’ing Kutcher. Not her underpaid assistant.”
He did
I think it was Drew’s vid if I remember correctly
he's so disconnected from reality it's crazy
as a victim of assault myself i find it very disturbing to hear people use the excuse of “oh they are nice to me” it is a slap in the face to all victims. in my case i was bullied out of my school because my abusers were popular, varsity football players and i was constantly told “they would never do something like that you must be lying for attention” i have little faith in society now
That is horrific! I fully believe you, because I know, from experience, these things happen. However, not ALL of humanity are abusers, or want to deny assault! The majority of the reactions to perpetrator defending makes it clear that the majority are not like the people you knew. And I am sure many believed you back then, too, and had empathy, but didn't think they were strong enough for the social backlash you survived. School is full of hormonal instability, and identity crises, and a desperation to belong as a survival instinct. The adult world includes the majority of people who have grown through all of that, and can be decent people.
In so sorry that happened to you sadly I know how you are feeling I'm a victim of child sexual abuse
That's awful, I hope you've gotten (or will get) better support since then. With more people speaking out about these issues, hopefully it's a sign of society changing for the better
My biological dad has written letters like this for multiple friends and family members, and it makes me sick how many people have gotten away with this kind of crime because of letters like this.
For what it is worth, I have doubts that letters from friends end up meaning very much to the judge. They are very good at noting that sociopaths can be very ingratiating to their “friends” precisely for this reason.
@@GiftSparks I don't know how much impact the letters have but I do know at least 2 of the people my dad wrote letters for got off with no repercussions.
@@dariadaniellemusic that is very sad.😢
@@GiftSparks it is sad and also maddening, especially because he has chosen these people over his own family. For example, one of the men he defended was in his 20s and taken to court because he SA'd my sister, who was 12 at the time 😢
I saw a comment on an IG post about the Danny Masterson case that I really agreed with; it went something like this, “You can never really vouch for a person accused of SA *if you aren’t the victim* bc it could literally be anybody, your friend, a member of the clergy, a teacher, a politician.” Basically unless you were THERE, you can never really say anything about the character of someone behind closed doors.
Bingo. 🎯
I had to comment only 3 minutes in, but seriously: Ashton claiming that Danny never lied to him implies one of two things:
1. Danny was honest with him about the crimes that we committed (or Ashton never asked in all these years) and Ashton kept supporting him
2. Ashton believes that all the victims are lying, even after Danny has been found guilty in court.
Either way, he can fuck all the way off! Reading the letter myself when it came out, I couldn't read further with that...
Jane Doe 3 was Danny Masterson’s girlfriend for five years and was an acquaintance of Ashton and Mila. That makes what they did even more disgraceful (if that is possible).
They also knew Jane Doe 1.
I was in the same situation as Ashton & Mila. I worked & was friends with a guy who seemed very decent- protective even, for many years so when I first heard a rumour about him, I dismissed it- which Im not proud of. When i heard the same rumour about a different girl, I started asking questions. It was far worse than I couldve immagined. He was a predator. They dont wear signs, they dont go after girls that can potentially ruin their career, they pick their victims. I was disgusted & loud about it. I fot him fired, I encouraged women to go to the police & not in a million yeaes would I have helped his defence!! He had a terrible childhood, I'm sorry for that but it doesnt excuse using a position of relative power to assault & intimidate girls & women. Shooting women also not ok.
They're dumb really, pretty idiots. They really think their "intuition" lets them see into peoples heads? I hope they get snarter- for their kids sake.
First of all, bravo! If only more people had the your same mindset... I think is perfectly normal to be skeptical and disbelieving if someone you think you know well and you like/love is accused of heinous crimes. If feelings are involved, it's difficult to discard them immediately, "just" because someone says so. That said, I don't believe even for a second that AK and MK weren't aware of DM's true nature. I think that they just didn't care because it didn't affect them directly. At beast they decided not to see - I mean, they were friends that spent time together and went together at parties, and at parties is often were DM did what he did.
@@scrsra1883 What's the old saying? Trust, but verify?
"they dont wear signs, they don't go after girls that can potentialy ruin their career, they pick their victims" This is especialy true with pedos. At the scouts i went to i was the neurodivergent child who was already dissociating due to gender dysphoria who came from a working class family. Compared to the rest i was the easiest victim. The name predator is apt. They tend to go for those that are already social outcasts, those that already struggle to explain themselves and those already having trouble dealing with stuff.
As a long time true crime media consumer, one thing I learned is that you can never know what another person is capable of. So if there's a victim and proof of it, other people should stay out of it.
This is another reminder that even people who are "good", kind, charitable, and loving parents (or who pretend to be) can still be an abuser or r*pist. The idea that all abusers are categorised as "monsters" stops people from recognising and accepting that someone they love has deeply hurt another person which leads to nonsense like these letters. I think society would benefit from accepting that someone's loving father and friend can be another person's monster.
100% yes, I don’t think I could’ve said it better
thank you :) 💗@@dysmissme7343
Until we learn this and internalize it, we as a society aren't going to make meaningful progress towards supporting victims and also towards destigmatizing reporting SAs and rapes. We need to stop believing the only person who could do something terrible is a nightmare monster and believe people who accuse "good" people of this.
💯
TW.
I was raped by a outstanding member of my community and never saw justice and was branded a hoe and a liar for coming forward,
character letters where never needed the judge knew him and he was a "good man and i was a child making up stories to get attention" so these letters piss me OFF
I'm so sorry that happened to you :(
People don’t take assault seriously, doesn’t matter your age your words still matter! I know sorry won’t ever make up for what you went through but I’m so sorry no one deserves that
Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis have no problem fighting against sexual assault until it directly impacted them. They just highlighted how abusers are enabled. There's a severe lack of introspection from them reflected in their "apology."
I just want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for at least touching on the Scientology aspect of Danny Masterson’s case, because it’s always really bugged me how often people won’t even acknowledge it or just don’t know about it, but it’s a super crucial aspect of why and how he got away with these crimes for so long.