Riot is lying to you / Was the EWC a failure? - Summoning Insight S7E26
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- MonteCristo and Thorin discuss the Esports World Cup (EWC), why Riot Games lied when they said they weren't involved in the EWC, why there may never be another event called "MSI" in future years, lane swaps in the current League of Legends professional meta, T1 and their performance at the EWC, and more.
Learn real-life conversation skills in another language! Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription at www.babbel.com/SUMMONING
Riot Games article on participation in EWC: www.riotgames.com/en/news/rio...
Thorin's new Substack: iamesports.substack.com/
Monte's stream for Bangers Only: / montecristo
Monte's primary CZcams: / ggmontecristo
Monte's CZcams for ALL Bangers Only VODs: / @bangersonly-ge2pf
Announcing the NEW Last Free Nation culture channel with Thorin, Richard Lewis, and Monte's film club FOUR PLAY. Subscribe on CZcams here: / @lastfreenationculture
Summoning Insight is the longest-running, most viewed League of Legends esports podcast in the world. Each week, hosts Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles and Duncan "Thorin" Shields break down the most exciting matches from LEC, LCS, LCK, and LPL as well as interviewing professional players, coaches, casters, and journalists from around the world.
Listen to Summoning Insight on podcast platforms:
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1w3sDoR...
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast...
Google: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...
Pocket Casts: pca.st/4z9sg2tg
Pandora: www.pandora.com/podcast/summo...
iHeart: iheart.com/podcast/104244896/
This episode was filmed on July 10th, 2024.
Come join the Last Free Nation Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - EWC takeaways
0:17:16 - Riot's lies about EWC + The future of LoL esports
1:02:20 - T1 + The current meta
1:19:16 - TES
1:22:59 - LFN Culture + Game of Thrones vs House of the Dragon
1:34:00 - G2 + lane swaps
1:47:44 - Fnatic + Format talk
1:55:37 - Team Liquid and FlyQuest
2:00:25 - Closing
2:06:41 - Discord Subscriber questions
#lolesports
#lolpodcast
#leagueoflegends - Hry
Thorin world record for interruptions during one attempted Monte rant .
nah this is average pace not his worst
BTW, for people who don't know
@@MidsummerNightScreamfamously the joke was
@@flepty here's the angle
@@adamvalencik9683I got an insaaaane joke for this, are you ready?
Take a shot whenever Throin says "the joke is". The joke is you'll get wasted or die if you attempt it.
You see the problem here with this one monte,
I saw this and was counting for a while, I'd be down already...
That opening by Thorin guilted me into calling my parents.
glad thorin remembered diamonprox - one of the greatest moments of watching esports to me was iem katowice vs both azubu teams and him flipping off blaze after the semi finals.
Nice piece of memory you unlocked for me hahaha, what a legend
Thorin is esport and Ralf Reichert created esport. So Ralf Reichert is Thorin's father. Ralf has joined Saudi, one could argue the dark side. aka Ralf Reichert is Darth Vader, Thorin Luke Skywalker, and has to defeat him.
Very nice
TL looked impressive, I hope they continue to improve
masterclass episode from thorin, really enjoyed watching this episode. All the analogies to non-esports related political issues, ability to theory-craft alternatives / thought experiments, pop culture references , kino
Part of why T1 just go back to standard meta drafting in LCK can be summed up by something Keria said at one point last year or two. He talked about how if you want to be the best player in the world, you should be able to play in any meta. And it makes sense from a player perspective. Contrary to what the LFN cast has been saying, T1 isn't a meta dependent team. If T1 is a meta dependent team, why is their worst placing at literally anything 3rd in the past 2-3 years? Regular season is the best time to be experimenting stage picks as well as adjusting and improving on picks they might be bad at. There's always a choice to be made whether or not they play to win or play to learn and improve. Fearless draft in LPL might have been the advantage that they needed to improve their versatility in draft compared to LCK. It's why I think GenG actually had a disadvantage in draft against TES because their overly winning ways made analyzing winning and losing drafts difficult.
Then why the only thing they won was one inferior format mayor? Also won by two massive individual clutch moments and chinese-korean import throwing game to them?
Monte's right, they beat others with experience and can default quickly to style that they know to their core and can surprise people with.
If anything they were only the best in the world in a dogshit double hail of blades bot meta and they barely managed to take JGD out with it (yes barely, please go rewatch those games if you think T1 rolled over them).
While on contrary they definitely should have won in 2022 vs a team who"s jungler couldn't land a smite.
Their floor and experience are their biggest strengts, yet it never made them n1 in a world for a longer sustained period of time.
Chovy/GenG lacked int. success yet was able to regularly smash them despite team being constantly changed. By all rights it should have been T1 with more trophies all this time.
@@pavelr.8042 I like how you use GenG as a ballpark despite the fact that they also lost to the same DRX team and in an even worse fashion for that matter. The same Chovy/GenG that kept losing to the fucking LPL despite being consider heavy favorites. Don't use GenG as an example to criticize T1. Again, handwaving GenG's weaknesses as always. All I'm saying is that it's stupid to believe that T1 is meta dependent despite how consistent they are. You need to give me a better argument instead of using GenG. Also, regarding JDG, they were not going to beat T1 with the way their solo laners were playing. Kanavi choking aside, 369 and Knight did not show up and their discipline was off. They just were not the superteam that was advertised that series.
@BlackDeathBlade it works domestically where there is more samplesize, you don't have other relatable data internationally, except T1 kinda sucks vs lpl at MSI and rolls over lpl at Worlds. GenG is a hallmark of dominance in LCK, which is good for comparison to other elite teams. Pretending T1 using LCK to train for internationals is complete bs. In GenG case local dominance didn't translate well into internationals till 24, while T1 are kinda the opposite, yet it is T1 who have biggest fame and budget and should be Thanos among teams.
@@pavelr.8042 In GenG's case, that would make them no better than the Doublelift teams in years past despite being a far better team than they are. Doublelift was never the international success story for NA during that era it was Cloud9 with Sneaky. Doublelift was the domestic merchant for many years yet it was never his teams that were the most successful in NA. For China we have EDG. EDG were a dominant LPL team in 2014-2017 and even won the first MSI. However, it was always Uzi that got the international recognition during that time period. Uzi was always known internationally instead of EDG yet it took the guy 6 years to win his first domestic title(and first MSI as well). EDG didn't get their first worlds title(let alone reach world finals or even semis) until 2021. And you wonder why T1 are always more recognized than GenG. There is merit to only playing strictly to meta. Being dominant in a region doesn't automatically translate to international success and it never has.
@BlackDeathBlade man you just compared Chovy to Doublelift, get brain scam ffs😆
of course T1 will be more recognised simply for having Faker, that's that, done.
Stop motion Thoorin
House of dragons over early GoT is wiiiild 😂
I get the point about an increased Worlds' reward pool as the logical conclusion of the encroaching snowball effect, but wouldn't this kill a lot of the leagues inherently? Or am I misunderstanding? The amount of teams profiting from Worlds is limited, and it's often the same large orgs? If orgs have to depend on that revenue isn't it not worth the participation? I don't really understand what funds the smaller ineffectual teams in LCK and LPL even, which you hope would be continue to thrive in coming years.
Edit: the Saudis and other 3rd party tournaments could fund the orgs additionally, but the participating teams would consistently be the big orgs anyways
I took the statement a bit different. I think Monte saying more money in their global money pool since their only cost is worlds is not them necessarily increasing worlds prize money but more adding money to the leagues yearly stipend. Even that couple million of cost to run MSI + potentially having company’s paying Riot to run the tournaments could add sizeable money to all the orgs especially with their new proposed system with much less teams due to combined regions etc…
The V&A museum in London is amazing. I preferred it to the British Museum
They should have played taric supp using the space groove or 5th age skin during the tournament 😂😂
this episode is fire
Sodaron was here 🎉
I found it hard to find english coverage of the event for some reason. Wasn't interested in costreams, I ended up watching on some Thai stream or something lmao
I watched it thru the lck casters who had thier own
tyler 1 or ls is an option
@@miguelweerasinghe24 I know, I wasn't interested in costreams tho, I didn't want commentary while I had it on in the background
It is just on Twitch. I had no idea it was ongoing when I saw it on twitch recommendations.
The EWC CZcams broadcast is literally done by LCK casters fym bro
Thorins analysis of men and respect spot on. A great marriage study actually called love and respect dissecting the differences between men and women’s base needs goes deep into that. So good
On the 1 week tournament part i agree with Thorin , i heavily prefer them over the worlds 1 month lenght style.
Everyone knows that if a team is on fire it is SO MUCH EASIER to keep momentum up if u keep playing back to back then if u get a week break between big games where each team has a chance to reset mentally.
When will we see some fire thumbnail faces from Thorin?
seeing thorin pop out of his chair for the first time was crazyyy
Time stamp?
In the House of Dragon section, Thorin talked about how he would have preferred seeing first age stories where Morgoth lays waste to the Middle Earth versus the Ring of Power. I honestly would have preferred the same production that's making the Rings of the Power at the moment NEVER put their hands on making the First Age stories in a million years because IN NO WORLD can they get it right, and I just can't imagine what kind of horrendous "politically correct" casting they would have came up with for all the Valar.
In fact, if somebody has to make the First Age story at some point, I would much prefer some eastern Japanese anime company (or even Korean anime company) do it than any western Corporations who's only concern is pleasing the media critics instead of making a damn good story.
“The house of Saud” 🤣
Tbh I didn’t know the event was going on and I watch every international tournament.
Just desserts for the "if you don't like it then leave" crowd to be barred from locking in their fruity character skins at a Saudi Valorant tournament.
thorin being the mom of LFN is hilarious I'm dying xD
Thorin with an ABSOLUTE banger at 53:01
How can you guys not mention LORD BERYL. 2 time WORLD CHAMP AS SUPPORT GOAT KEKW. To me, mata is always the support goat and shoutout madlife as always
Thorin slowly turning into boogie2988
Hah monte knows that ds9 is superior to next gerneration. That tickles me, what a legend
What part of the UK is Thorins accent from?
North east (North Yorkshire) just beside Middlesbrough
@@philo0 thanks 😊
I kind of disagree on the Bo3 if they dont make games longer because a Bo3 in LoL can be over in like an hour while even a shitty Bo3 in CS is like 2 hours.
name a better duo...ill wait
There is none
Thorin and Loco 😂
I don't think people give Tian the recognition he deserves as the true GOAT of match fixing.
No junglers that trash talk? Do we all forget Lord Gilius?
The demacia cup cannot count like at tournament w 4 diff regions. Y'all entire network eats from T1s scraps.
It's wild that Monte can stay so calm about being interrupted so much, my respect.
It’s called being an adult, and also being a man with a fucking set of nuts. Dudes interrupt each other non stop, it’s normal and nobody holds a grudge about it. Can’t believe how many times I see people say this about monte and Thorin.
👍
2:52:08 lmao
So babble doesn't have japanese
I love baseball.
Damn you rando in chat, I was going to make the Arabic joke
On the pay per view subject:
I would happily join in pay per view tournaments. But not with a insanely overly marketed political ideology like lgbtq behind it. Ffs man , its an E-sports VIDEOGAME. Stop politicizing sports and E-sports.
"you can play a million matches in soccer" lol no
Does Lol Still have the stupid kernal level protection. ive been wanting to play but i will not risk my computer dying because i am not tech savy enough
I was on the fence myself, tried it and everything seems fine. You can even deactivate it
ya, it's funny seeing all the virtue signalers and the LEC casters who went off against the NEOM deal, all silent. And boy the hypocrisy of Sjokz who loves virtue signaling and was loud about the NEOM deal then she goes off to work at ESL events for CS.
I agree with monte about the golden road. How about we wait for GG to win before continuing with the golden road. They lost the best team in a world. Maybe jet lagg lack of practice ext ext. But let's not forget everyone and there momma assumed GG was going to sweep this tournament. Maybe if they win I'm hype for worlds and see if they can do it.
EWC was fun cant wait for more fun tournaments that Riot will never give us.
What about making a rule in competetive where teams are only allowed 1 teleport per team, it would create some more interesting gameplay in the lanes where u no longer have TP.
Perhaps u mismatch so one team runs TP mid the other runs it Toplane and that could create interesting new dynamics, diffrent meta picks etc.
We also get combat summoners in more lanes which should make the lanes much more active and less about playing PvE for 15 before first big teamfight where farmers like Chovy simply just has a leg up on everyone else.
so in other world GenG didn't do the golden road since the event will be permanent now. so yeah ~
I still find it baffling the constant guma disrespect when they keep mentioning viper as an upgrade. Which is not to say viper aint a top adc, but he is not an upgrade to guma, let alone in the context of t1 as a team
The acolyte is probably the worst show ever created,, especially one which was based of a beloved franchise.
Screw Saudi. Can esports paid for view be like pokeGo? Long live LFN.
Just wanted to say that House of the dragon is mediocre overall
Lpl loves team fights.. lck run you all around the map and get gold lead..hence riot wants lpl to win by nerf all lck play style
No need to complain.. riot just doing riot things . Helping lpl all day long
I think koreans are better in tfs as well, they are much more nuanced and surgical
@@user-lt9md7mw1m bro if you watch lpl you know they fight for everything.. they fight you for a fking ward... They just fight for everything... If you just count pure team fight.. and take away all macro.. lpl have higher chance of winning
@@simonxiao7242 isnt fighting for everything a bad sign, no discipline
@@user-lt9md7mw1m it's honestly far from the truth, LPL just have a different playstyles that they look like they fight for everything. some teams do dragon set ups and some do grubs, that is why some teams facechecks often cuz they try to prevent the enemt team from snowballing by executing their core strategy.
@@user-lt9md7mw1m yes but riot is nerfing side lane spit push..and force objective to be end all be all.. to boost the dog shit lpl
as saudi arabia starts covering more and more esports it becomes harder and harder to enjoy my hobby, sucks
I mean by that logic, you can't enjoy esports when NA or China host because the US exploits workers Galore with sexual harrasment and social issues within their organisation and china has many human right violations:
Repression in Xinjiang.
Fear of Arbitrary Arrest.
Religious Freedom Abuses.
Stifling Freedom of Expression.
Forced Labor.
Assault on Hong Kong's Autonomy.
Severe Restrictions in Tibet.
and Riot has the huge sexual harrasment issues and predatory tactics on pricing (Ahri) so you just cant play or watch league. if the product is good, just watch saudi games but continue protesting saudi. let's take that bag to get the money out of saudi.
Look at it this way : IF you disregard any personaly opinions about SA and ONLY look at it from a pure factual/logical way then it makes total sense that we have a large Esports scene in Riyadh if they are willing to invest alot of money into facilities etc
It saves Riot alot of money , teams get a place where they can go to bootcamp and prepare for tournaments etc , the infrastructure can be built up and be kept in one location and thus improve production quality.
I see no logical downsides to alteast MSI/EWC beeing held in Riyadh yearly and only upsides.
Now ppl will go on and make stupid arguments about human rights or whatver but that BS doesnt hold up anymore. Nobody actually cares what so ever about theese topics when push comes to shove! (ppl just like to say they care cause thats they gotta do to not get cancelcultured)
Factually and logically they have human rights violations. What are you talking about?
@@igniortix So? The US has comitted genocide on more people then rest of te world together , whats ur point?
They are against LBGBBQs like most of us theese days.
The US has comitted 100x more human rights violations, for example the US killed hundreds of thousands of philipines in concetration camps, you bombed MILLIONS of innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan, you comitted war crimes in Vietnam...
So tell me whats ur point here?
saudi arabiy is the more safe place u going be a man or a woman so please if u dont know about ksa then dont speak i live their even if u left ur key car noone going steal it :) bc we are rich easy as that
Yea because if someone did steal from you and was caught they'd be killed. Maybe i'm crazy but I think extremely harsh punishments aren't worth it to achieve a safer society, because you can get a safer society without those kinds of punishments.
We know man. You can read and inform yourself about a culture. We know your culture, we know your history, probably better than you. So rest assured we are talking knowingly about your culture 😊
@@igniortix hahah u know my country history better then me hahah so funny it same u are a kid what ever if u don’t like our roles don’t come and don’t take our money its not forced easy as that 😉
Yeah, literally butchering political opponents, while being too stupid to at least put off the apple watch. Talk about security and ethics. Hush already.
if youre on ukrains side then be happy sending them your money while all prices go up around u smh
i watched some thourgh gilius but 0 hype shitty games. i diddnt even bother to watch all games
No one asked
house of dragon is much better than game of thrones b/c it foregrounds sexual difference not really because stuff was figured out. game of thrones was castration show (c.f. the ending)
separately thorin please infer that infer doesn't mean imply from this message
What?
honestly, have listened to this podcast for years. And must say that monte and thoorins record being correct in there projection is quite bad xD
Was it not like 2 weeks ago Monte said GenG was potentially the best team ever?? And now they have lost the first game in the tournament??
Yikes...
nah, even with T1 winning (I am a huge T1 fan), Gen G played on a new patch, and with awful meta read. it does seem bad but at the time, Gen G looked unbeatable. now it seems Gen G is beatable but it still number 1 on average (consistency) in the world. I think T1 has a higher peak and BLG could show up if it becomes a top lane meta or TES gets an adc focused meta. Just because Gen G had a bad meta read (based on the draft tactic leaks) and shit the bed on a tournament where scrimming was limited, doesnt mean they are bad or not currently the team that looks best.
One loss invalidates being in the discussion for the best team ever? That isn't how that works lol
@@austen8718 Yes, I would say it does.
This tournament they where not the best, hence they are not the best team ever right now.
Also they have only won one international tournament( MSI ) which was impressive, but a few weeks later they lose?
I think to be considered the best team ever, you need to be able to adapt to meta changes and such.
They are a very good team, but saying they are the best ever is such a stretch.
Monte is absolutely right. House of the Dragon is much better. Kit and Emilia are absolutely horrid actors and Im glad their careers have flopped
EWC was far away from failing.
You failed by keeping DGon on LFN. Bunch of hypocrites
DGon has to work, why would you blacklist a person from taking the bag for a gig. it would be the same as doing what riot did to monte (they blacklisted him for fighting for caster working rights and wages) and in DGon's case it is just casting for an event. If all the money is coming from Saudi then it means no other industry people care enough to fund the people over saudi. its a fault of economics not morales. Also you do not know how much DGon does for LFN or whether his contract includes ownership over power spike/co-op ownership which he has been part of since episode 3 (I didn't check ep 1 and 2). him working for ewc on contract is not him making a morale statement, its him getting the bag, which you may as well. it gets money out of saudi so less is spent on human rights violations etc...
@@miguelweerasinghe24 you do not get it. Monte and Thorin are shitting on Saudis constantly and yet they choose to support and work with a person that takes blood money and sportwashes the Saudi terror.
This is prime hypocrisy.
LFN collectively made the decision to turn down millions of Saudi money when they offered to buy into the company.
But why do you think they should police the decisions of individuals within LFN?
LFN collectively made the decision to turn down millions of Saudi investment.
But why do you think they should police personal decisions?
I'm not surprised that Riot would actually be involved somehow in the Saudi tournaments. It would probably explain some of the assets that came to the tournament. Also, there's nothing inherently wrong with countries with questionable policies and moral stances wanting to host their own esports tournament. I think people in video game communities these days put far too much emphasis on good morals and the obsession with it drives me nuts. Like yeah Saudi Arabia isn't the best country in the world when it comes to human rights, but there's always going to be governments in planet earth that don't agree with our view of what human rights should be. I do agree that if you virtue signal like a mofo and you decide to participate in their tournaments then you're a hypocrite, but I do not agree that being a willing participant of EWC necessarily means you have no qualms on how the Saudi government runs or agree with them by association. These days it's sickening how absurd people will go into lengths about flaunting their moral superiority to judge if people are "qualified" to be involved in their communities these days or hell play a video game. Like anyone can enjoy video games and watching our favorite players play, but I think people tend to forget that everyone has different cultural and moral backgrounds that they lived with.
Although I agree on the opinion (opinion, not fact!) that this ewc shouldn't count for the golden road, this monte take on "everyone without a microphone doesn't deserve an opinion on whether this is the end of the golden road or not, nobody cares about your opinion" is one of the most disgustingly arrogant takes in general I've seen in a long time. Esports, any sport is nothing without their fans, it's basically just a circle jerk between talented people without their fans, even these media platforms where mildly qualified pundits talk about esports is nothing without their fans and listeners. What's the qualification for "having a microphone" to have a relevant opinion, anyway? If you want to discredit the opinions of casuals, do it with logic, instead of whining that "y'all's opinions don't matter".
Well these people gave their 20s and 30s to the scene, essentially the most youthful parts of their lives. What have these "fans" do for the scene? They aren't even willing to spend a few bucks for a pay per view model, partly leading esports to what it is now. So yeah, their opinions are quite worthless.
@@treynguyen1236 you know we are keeping lol pro scene active by buying the skins right? esports is just a way to sell skins with how unprofitable it is. maybe you are trying to kill it by not spending at all lol
They have authority because they've been around for decades and were there for the beginnings of a lot of what exists today, that's what he's saying. He doesn't mean literally anyone with a microphone.
It's just because it doesn't matter. It's not personal
Youre right Thorin, why am I ignoring you scamming your fans with crypto.
EWC shows that Thoorin's TSM "AFK Mid" LeChoke'vy James can still choke with another Super Team.
EWC was actually a banger and I wish more people covered it. Apparently it might replace MSI and thats an amazing Idea or they could make it bigger and replace worlds with it.
just have a 3rd international tournament. at this point msi and worls are estabilished
Saudi bot?
@@aladin7736 They are making another tournament
@@Iasleepful I'm sure you are
Just here to leave a dislike for thorin. Monte is a goat tho
Thorin is so annoying. Free Monte.
The joke is
They love each other so they have to be together 😤
These people hating on Thorin is just a vocal minority and probably KC/T1 fans. Keep up the great work Thorin!
Naaah you're wrong
@@alvinohlsson5986Hey now! I'm a T1 and Thorin fan. There are dozens of us