It's about time I responded to THIS kind of comment!
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Tonight we're diving into the 'effects' debate!
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
1:43 Vocal Comparison (Out of Tune/Corrected)
3:27 Effect (vs. Affect!)
5:35 Music as an Art
11:27 Moving Phrasing
For more, check out my other sites! / wingsofpegasus www.wingsofpegasusband.com/ / wingsofpegasus Twitter - @wingsofpegasus Insta - @wingsofpegasusofficial - Zábava
I love how you and Rick Beato keep the integrity alive. These techniques have a place to "assist" but not make or replace talent and hard work! Fully enjoyed your effect vs affect explanation!
Hopefully you saw the recent interview of Steve Lukather by Rick Beato. You're right though, these two guys are genuine
A person with real talent doesn’t need auto tune or any of the other enhancements There’s a lot of famous singers that don’t have beautiful voices but they’re the ones that sing from the heart & soul, and that’s why they’re successful ☮️💜🎶
Exactly why auto tune is NOT anything more than a Performance Enhancing Drug to athletic records.
Always without disclosure.
And there are a couple like Bob Dylan that could have REALLY used it. The dude couldn't carry a pitch to save his life, and he readily acknowledged that, but boy could he write. When other people that WERE vocalists sang some of his songs, they were magical. I don't know who twisted his arm to get him to perform, but they maybe shouldn't have, for my benefit anyway. I won't speak for others tastes. :-)
@@MrJdsenior Nothing wrong with Dylan’s pitch or vocal skills.....he just has a crap natural tone.
Of course, he did suffer talent wise when drunk, drugged or both. lol
Agree 100 percent. Like Fill said: Integrity.
True. and thats that essence is lost when you manipulate their voice which is something Fil has demonstrated many times in his videos.
On an old Billy Idol album I had I recall included an interview where Billy was talking about how some people sing great and some people are great singers (and on rare occasions they are both). An example he brought up of someone who was a great singer but didnt necessarily sing great was Mick Jagger. A very distinctive sounding voice and would sound pretty odd if manipulated.
It's the difference between an original painting and paint by numbers, which is essentially a trick to get a painting to look right without a bit of creative process.
Such a good example!!!
Bad singing "magically" turned into excellent singing with pitch-correcting devices is deception and violating musical artistry, in my opinion.
Thanks a bunch, Fil, for another easy to unterstand and clarifying video on this topic! 👍🧡💛💚
Arrest fake singers. Get them off the streets.
Nah, you could say the same thing about compressors, EQs and delay/reverb effects. In many ways, the product you hear in a recording has for many years been whatever it took to get the recording done top-notch. Session musicians have commonly sat in to get the record done. Using Autotune is no different. There is truly no end to "cheating" in the studio.
@@starman5754 Please, watch the video again. 🙂
@@roamingqueen No need to, I stand by my comments. Fil's comments and explanation are spot on. My comment is directed at your thinking that there has never been "deception" practiced in the studio to get perfected tracks completed.
@@starman5754 NO! This misses the point, entirely.
You’re always so patient , pleasant and perfect, FIL ;
you’re so exceptional in so many ways !!!! 🌟🌟🌟🌟👏👏👏👏🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟👍👍👍👍
@Syd McCreath I'm curious: Are you English? If so, please explain how it is that these features that define the English are absent in you.
You are spot on. Fil's a real gem!
🥀 Right ! No autocorrect for Fil; he's the ORIGINAL !!! 😉👍🏻✌🏻
@@Trombonology There is no need for that snarky response to Syd McCreath. However, it does "say" a lot about you.
@@KStewart-th4sk My dear person, I made this comment after having read another statement from Syd McCreath in this same post, replying to another commenter. Someone said, "I don't understand how this needs to be explained to people" -- to which he replied, "Maybe they're American?"
I would find this response, joking or otherwise, offensive even if I weren't American.
Have you appointed yourself the arbiter of when there is -- or isn't -- a "need" for a particular statement? ... Relax.
Thanks you so much for this. I have been a folk/ballad singer, guitarist for MANY years -practicing diligently at home and then playing in pubs and folk festivals. I have a good ear and always considered it the artist's responsibility to work hard at making their instruments - voice and guitar be in tune. Coincidentally, I also paint, and consider your comments on the authenticity of any work of art to be totally valid. I thoroughly all your other very informative videos.
Christine, it wouldn't hurt to check out your last sentence here. Nice comment otherwise.
Fil, I'm with you 100%. All the truly greats sounded great live as well as recorded. It's no different today. It's art, skill, training and dedication. If you need a computer to do your singing for you, you're a fake. Fine if you only do it at home, but presenting it to the world as art or talent, is a scam, because it's done for MONEY. The worst example was Milli Vanilli, a duo that didn't even sing their own hits. Their "live" performances were lip sync only. They just looked good, which was all their manager and producer cared about to SELL to the public as "artists." Now fabulous-looking no-talents can even "sing" their own songs and let modern electronics cover up their lack of any real talent. No need to have unnamed session artists do the singing for them. We admire true artists, we don't admire also-rans or fakes.
Thanks, Fil, I am not a musician, watch your vids to learn and be a better educated and more appreciative audience. This was so helpful! Thanks for taking the time to share ☺️!
Very well stated ! Me too
Same here!
Would like to add my appreciation and thx. Over the past year or so, I've become a fan of IU. Would like to hear your breakdown of her. I keep hinking of Linda Ronstadt, but, I don
I don't know why. Her Killing Voice performance is reviewed quite a bit. Perhaps you could comment on that. Thank you.
Brilliant! If people don't get it after this, I guess there's no hope for them. Of course, there are always people who can't be reasoned with, or who just like to argue.
This is another reason I have a world of respect for you, Fil. You celebrate genuineness and understand (and appreciate) artists who have worked hard to hone their skills and develop their talent. Thank you for another great video!
Reverb and delay are nice for adding presence to a voice and have been used to one level or another on most recordings for over 50 years. They do not change the pitch and if you can't sing they won't make you sound any better. Pitch correction on the other hand is a crutch for those whose vocal abilities are not up to snuff. I commend Fil for these enlightening videos. As a longtime professional musician I know well of these concepts but he does a great job of explaining it to those who are unaware of them.
Fil, you are an excellent teacher - you explained this simply and fully. If someone does not understand now, they don't want to! I think the biggest objection that most of us have is that they ( the industry?) try to hide it and pass it off as original. They should definitely state that it has been auto tuned/pitch corrected. If there are those who like AT/PC, that's fine ... myself I want to hear someone who has the actual ability - that is art to me. Perhaps because I grew up in a time where real talent was appreciated, respected even envied ... if you did not have that talent, you did something else. Thank you for taking your time to explain again. God bless you.
Great comment
What I dislike is that the industry makes these changes and isn't honest about having done. Most people think they're listening to the "real" voice. Thanks for trying to get some of these people to understand what's going on!
Exactly. Even if they were correct to say that auto tune isn't cheating the fact that it's being hidden from the audience and they pretend it's their voice is what makes me angry.
@@EbonyPope They would not hide it if they thought it wasn't cheating.😁
Whatever the final cut of a song is and people like it, does it really matter?... when i listen to tracks, i have little info to go on how it was produced. If i like the song, great. Everyone has tips and tricks to get the most out of their work. If they said they did this and lied to the interviewer. That's on them...
The more you talk about this, the more I understand it. I still think its cheating when autotune and pitch correction is used to make something natural unnatural. People who can't hit notes should take voice lessons ( this is just my opinion). Thank you, Fil! I'm learning something all the time when I watch your livestreams and analysis videos, they are very informative! Rock!
Right Tammy, Regards🙋♀
I ran Fil’s video thru the pitch correction software and his speaking voice has been altered … he really sounds like Minnie Mouse
It's not even that so much. It's that a natural human voice that's very slightly off-pitch sounds much better than perfect pitch.
To be honest, if you can't sing without needing pitch-correction software, then the best advice is to; "....not to give up your day-job!"
So true Tammy.
What a awesome video Fil. I applaud you in so many ways. I love it when you step up to the plate. You can talk the talk as well as walk the walk Fil. You do it in such a professional way. I admire you not only as a musician but as a person. 👏❤
I love what you said: that Fil can talk the talk and walk the walk. Rock! 🎸
You've explained it beautifully. We love your honesty. Most of us want to hear the real deal, like it was before auto tune existed.
Ditto Deborah! Well said! Fil is amazing...always.
There was one word that Fil said that really jumped out to me and that's "credibility". Without credibility a work of art is greatly if not completely diminished. If everyone can create a perfect voice with alteration is becomes worthless. The imperfections of beauty actually highlight the beauty.
This seems to be part of the larger discussion about AI art, chatbot-written stories and poetry, etc. What is sad to me is that we lost a lot by simply digitizing music, and we are losing now the most basic elements of music - the notes themselves.
I feel as if we are selling our souls when we accept literally soul-less versions of any type of art.
Thank you for making this video. I would love to hear a roundtable discussion with you and critics of AI "art" and "literature".
Keep it up, Fil. We need your voice!🎶
Isn't that one of the omens of a death of a civilized society? Weird how the plot of Yellow Submarine (film) has come to life. I for one 💜 your idea of a panel..(perhaps a revolving one with different people each time?) Or just a Filtoon where Fil can use his cartoon alter ego to comment!😉
@@IMeMineWho That would be great - the cartoon Fil getting his two cents in! 😊👍🏻
I fear AI. I visited an art gallery recently and the proprietors were gushing over their new AI pieces. I left dejected.
I would not sweat to much. Those galleries are shooting for the mass market. The AI images are great, but they are only recombining what has come before. For example an IA could make a brilliant variation of Munch's famous painting The Scream. But if Munch had never created the image, the AI could never incorporate it into its pallet.
You tell them. I played professionally for 20 years in bluegrass. I prided myself on hitting the harmonies or leads. We didn’t mess around. You ether could hit it or not! I could hit it and would sing with the best of them. I’m proud of that and have many perfect vocals with other artists. When it happens it the most satisfying feeling. I’m proud to say I know that feeling!
👍
I bet you worked hard at your art, also.
That should really help some people, IF they want to be helped. However, I'm guessing that there are more than a few of those comments, that don't want to hear what you have to say, they want to use whatever it takes, to make them sound like that, which they can never be, lol.
You're a good man, Fil, for giving it a go, regardless. Here's to hoping it helps them fully understand.
Unfortunately, pitch correction is becoming so ubiquitous that people's ears are hearing it as 'normal'. To me, it sounds completely robotic. Idiotic too, might I add.
@@smae433 Absolutely.
I agree. Thank you for expressing my sentiments perfectly. Rock!
Yes you are correct and some people aren't even interesting in that. They are interested in making the CZcamsr, Pegasus, be wrong. Witch is of course dumb.
@Fil love how you understand the difference between effect and affect. (Language nerd, here.)
Fil, thank you for clearly and bravely speaking to this issue. It's a slippery slope. Soon, we won't need artists at all if we stay on this track.
It's really important at this moment in history to support honest human artistry, lest what we now call art and music becomes an AI parody of what was once the brilliance of human expression.
There no 'artists'In main media musick now , apart from Taylor swift ..hay hay am and I am 67 and a dead head ...so there
There no 'artists'In main media musick now , apart from Taylor swift ..hay hay am and I am 67 and a dead head ...so there
Sad that you even have to explain this but then we're living in a world where we literally have to tell people not to eat laundry detergent, and some people are still convinced the earth is flat. Good stuff thanks!
Good one
Authentic talent is what's inspiring. Copies may be more accessible but ultimately the "real deal" is always more valuable and appreciated.
Well put, Fil, I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is all about integrity, but also trust. Thanks Fil, hopefully more and more people will get onboard the genuine express and kick pitch correction in the gusset. 🤘
This is why i miss 20th century music so much... it has talent and soul... something that is gone nowadays...
It can come back. I think (hope) it's all cyclical
Thank you for this wonderful explanation. You nailed it when you mentioned INTEGRITY. Auto tune erodes integrity. Effects can amplify integrity, when they are applied appropriately. Thank you for keeping the spotlight on auto tune and the dehumanization of music.
☺Your patience with people is above and beyond average. You must be an amazing person to take lessons from. Unbelievably tolerant! God bless you.
I think applying the reverb and delay to the vocals like you did is probably the most effective way I have seen to show people the difference between that and autotune/pitch correction. I have to imagine that this will help people who were having trouble wrapping their brains around this concept to see that those effects do not fundamentally change the notes and the sound being produced the way that autotune and pitch correction do. If not, then maybe they just don't want to know.
Thank you Fil for pointing out the differences and agree that having credibility is the key!
Hi Fil, please understand my harsh criticism to follow... you are too talented, skilled and articulate in all the videos that you make and the topics that you cover to even give two seconds notice to any of the commenters like the ones you're responding to for this. Your videos are too well researched, well done and you know what you're talking about with the ability to back it up. There will always be people who "just don't get it" out there. Remember, "Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em." Also, I don't know why you don't have 300K subscribers yet, but that can't last. you need to be ready for the comment volume you'll be getting when you're at 1/2 million and then a million plus scribers and comments. You can't let those people get to you. Maybe the people who are equating auto-tune to an effects pedal are excusing their own use of auto-tune to fix their singing. I know that people would be BEGGING me to use auto-tune if I was singing. The last thing I'd suggest is for you consider is going from your pre-1994 Eddie Van Halen hair to a post-1994 Eddie Van Halen hair style. 😉
Before AI, or digital and auditory augmentation, one knew an artist, singer or musician was good because you could see it with your eyes or hear it with your ears. Now, we don’t know WHAT we’re getting. Your video about the live performance, which was pitch corrected, brought that home to me.
Great video today, Fil. It’s an excellent explanation of the differences between instrumental effects vs. vocal pitch-correction or auto-tune.
Fil, your analysis is brilliant and easy to understand. I enjoyed--among many--the line about using reverb and sounding as if one is 'singing out of tune in a cave'... Although the industry will do what it will, I can identify the artists who sing consistently on pitch. Those are the ones I religeously follow, promote and enjoy. Thanks again for a premier analysis.
A few months ago, my brother heard a singer and went up to her to tell her how perfect he voice sounded. She admitted to him that she was using pitch correction. To me, that is absolutely cheating.
Me too
How embarrassing that must have been.
I'm surprised she admitted it openly, though!
@@creamwobbly the singer said she is pitch corrected that's why Paula ( thread opener) is angry, because it's cheating on the audience! But like Fil is always explaining, there are differences between those who don't necessarily need pitch correction and those singers, who can't hold any notes or hit them at least good enough for us to think they're good😉. There's a rumor that there are mic and soundboards who even pitch correct lives! I could not find proper information about that! But in my opinion it's cheating if you need pitch correction all the time! Unfortunately the post production for music often runs pitch correction as standard, without making the effort to only pitch those few notes ( per hand, requires to go through the complete song) who are might needed!
So wearing clothes in the winter is cheating?
Some effects hide mistakes, others amplify them. No amount of effects will correct them. Love your channel Fil!
Very well stated, Fil. As a guitarist (although not a vocalist and for good reason), we are very much of the same mind on this sort of thing. You just explained it far better than can I.
Very well explained. You're a great teacher.
Thanks!
Well said Fil. I grew up listening to music before auto tune or pitch correction when musicians rose to the top on their own talent.
What a brilliant explanation, Fil! Your talent is remarkable. Thank you! Pam
Thanks so much for making these very important videos. Not many would take the time or, may I say, have the courage to do what is necessary to explain precisely and demonstrate what pitch correction and auto-tuning can do to an art form. Hoping that your time and effort will have an impact such that pitch correction/auto-tuning become much less pervasive in the music industry today and, even - if we're lucky - attach a permanent stigma to its improper use!
Thanks Fil. Once again, you clearly explain why so many of us oldies are turned off by modern singers/recordings.
Anyone who accepts auto-tune as 'normal' has not been exposed to great, soulful, music which can be heard in the timbre of the voice. It results in the singers expressing their feelings through the lyrics, which can't be done electronically.
As someone who attended many concerts in my youth, I'd have been appalled to learn that the artists I'd paid to see weren't playing/singing live.
You're correct that it's about having integrity.
I know there a fine line between special effects and deceiving the general public when it comes to auto tune and pitch correction. Fil, you have the ability to explain in great detail to each of us on our own level regardless of what our musical knowledge may be. You Rock Sir.
I think it a big, wide, clear as day line. Auto-Tune = No talent.
@@prestachuck2867 A bit harsh. A lot of the time a vocalist can provide a great vocal with great expression, timing etc. but a few slight pitch errors which might benefit from a slight tweak. Similarly comping tracks and dropping in have existed since multitrack machines were invented and are perfectly acceptable/necessary.
The point as far as I am concerned is that when it was first used pitch correction was an interesting gimmick. Also there have been some instances where a highly mechanised voice was necessary. This is art. The problem is that now firstly non singers use it to pretend they can sing but they are really only there because they look good or can dance, and secondly, an obsession by bad engineers and remasterers because we are now so used to hearing perfect pitch that we prefer it to a voice of character and expression.
Fil, I'm with you most definitely on this subject. Thank you again for trying to make people understand the difference. However, it seems that some people don't understand the definition of cheating and others don't give a 💩 and never will. Cheating and lying seems to be a normal way to be these days. ♥️ your videos and live streams! Janet from Louisiana ☮🖤🤘
Thanks for this, Fil. It applies not only to music, but to AI "art" and who knows what else - I'm sure I'll have many occasions to link to it!
Phil, You explain what many would be blunt & almost nasty about. You are the one class, that I never skip in my "curriculum" / education.. 😊 And what examples to use. The difference is amazing on #1.The two topics that you have covered here were so well, so clearly explained. Your vids are always informative and enjoyable.No question that you do have integrity & credibility. 💜
Hello Fil that was my comment you highlighted in the thumbnail I really appreciate your indepth explanation you have a wonderful way of breaking it down and it seems like the comment section has been enjoying this topic best wishes from Columbus Ohio USA ❤️
Good analogy with art and the printer. Good video. I HATE the use of auto correct etc. Every song that has used it should have a warning label "This song uses Autocorrect to help make the singer sound like a real talented artist"
Great explanation! I think the ability to hit notes consistently and with quality unassisted (be it voice, guitar or any other instrument) is a fundamental quality of being a competent artist. After all, if you're just starting out and playing bars or busking, you're not going to have auto tune to help you out.
TC electronics make guitar and keyboard pedals that pitch correct based upon your chords and progression. They use a mic plugged in and also create backup harmonies based on the chords in real time.
As a person who loves to sing and who has been to more than a hundred concerts with many of the greats from the 60’s bands onward I absolutely agree with you that autotune is not an authentic performance. It is just as false as lip-syncing.
Wow, brilliantly explained Fil. Now I get it and totally agree. And just to add to this conversation, let’s think of other parallels. I do a little photography and enjoy portraiture, and that leads to image manipulation software. Before I understood it, I thought I never wanted to use it. Then I experimented a little and corrected a few lighting issues, colour corrected to make the shot look natural, and, eventually, removed the odd skin blemish. It remained them - but on a good day. Once you start increasing the eyes, reducing the nose, elongating the neck etc, you’ve lost the real person. It is artificial. The beautiful connection between the camera and the soul is lost.
And now you have explained this so well; it’s how I feel about auto-tuning and pitch correction. A little tweak is fine, but a complete rework into something they are not is a misrepresentation, and the output has lost its humanity. So, let’s spare a thought for the celebrities who have been manipulated so far in both voice and image that it’s no longer a true reflection of them. That they are not the person they appear to be. The adoration is built on a lie. How sad.
Well said, I would also like to add, that the imperfections in pitch of a performance / art, are often what gives the performance the unique signature /edge and authenticity. It is the uniqueness of his / her voice or other art form and that this is generally why we as individuals find particular artists or particular performances, something special and better than the rest.
Very well said, good examples! Patiently and persistently opening ears and minds, one set at a time. You're the best.
Thanks!
This totally makes sense. Very effective demonstration of the differences. Thank you for your diligence around information and education. Integrity is a word that came to my mind about this discussion.
Fil. Couldn’t agree more. You’re as always being a gentleman distinguishing between effect and affect. Tricky to keep them straight so I’ll just use effect and fraud. Thank you for your teaching and your analysis.
Just spot on Fil! I love that you did this video. I understand how it all works but have found difficulty trying to explain it like you did here. Excellently done! You Rock my friend!
One of my favourite analysis videos
Was when you proved freddie Mercury's voice wasn't auto tuned while he was alive .
You added auto tune to the song somebody to love you could tell the difference straight away.
One of my favorites also. Why are they doing it now to a lot of the older Queen songs?? So not needed!
@@Lilah1754 Where are they doing that?
@@colemantrebor6574 I believe on Queen Chanel they have corrected some of Freddie’s vocals from their live concerts. Fil, had a video about it. “ Cant believe Queen record label auto tuned Freddie Mercury’s voice” is title of video.
Its like straightening out the lines on a Picasso. Its just not on.
@@pheart2381 straightening lines on a Picasso is different cause it's the work of someone else
You said it…..credibility. Thanks Fil.
Wow! Thanks, man. That cleared up a lot of questions for me. Clear and to the point....just what we've come to expect from you.
🥰 Thanks ... I'm 60 years old, and have this argument with younger listeners of music who just can't seem to understand that people used to actually be able to perform WITHOUT these new technologies. And it's just really difficult to make them see the difference. Now I have a video I can send them to (if they're going to even bother). Cheers!
I'd like a guitar “affects” box that will make me sound like Django Reinhardt.
I've enjoyed several of your videos over the last few months (and have watched a couple previous to that over the years). THIS outstanding piece got me to finally subscribe. Great work, especially your discussion of music as art and what that can truly mean.
Thanks!
I'm surprised anyone would compare auto tune (fixing a mistake) to adding an effect. Btw, I'm impressed at your ability to deliberately sing out of tune, I imagine that's quite difficult.
Les Dawson was an excellent pianist and admitted how difficult it was to play out of tune - one of his funniest and most popular sketches.
@@PhilipBallGarry I loved Les Dawson and I remember my dad (who played several instruments, including piano) telling me only a really good pianist could do that because it's so difficult. I think it must be even more difficult to sing wrong notes than to play them.
@@PhilipBallGarry My dad was really good at playing a song well, then gradually starting to throw in the perfect wrong notes here and there. It always cracked us up. ☺
@@KayEl58 the better the singer the harder it is to sing or play off tune, well actually to sing because you have to use your breathing and hearing the "off' note and placement in singing a song.
Check out Tim Minchin's F Sharp
I love your joy especially on old music . My love is between 1964 and 1974 thank you
🤘😎🤘🎼live is best 👍
Amen. Honest. Credible is what society lacks. As Donovan said "we are in Kali Yuga."
That you even had to explain this explains so much about our state of affairs in pop music today.
Thank you. It is such a shame that people do not understand what working for something actually means. You have to have some level of talent and truly love what you are doing to get to the level of a professional anything. There aren't any short cuts.
Good points Fil. I recall a band from a few years ago that had a hit and the live version was so far off of what got airplay that I figured there was some chicanery going on. When Warren Zevon or Natalie Merchant, or any other pro, performed live it typically does sound less polished than the studio version but the professional core is still there and intact.
Thanks so much. Being a guitarist and a singer, I already understand what you mean. I'm glad you're able to explain it to non musicians.
Excellent video Fil. Thank You! Made sense to me!
Some of the great beauty of the human voice is microtonal. The expression of emotion. Really singing what you feel, or feeling what you are singing. And when vibrato is unleashed, it can be intense, or relaxed. Without that, the voice becomes a mere synthesizer.
I don't understand how this needs to be explained to people.
@Syd McCreath That's weird, considering I'm American.
@sydmccreath4554 Heya, don't you blame me...I'm from the aural sanctuary of New Orleans. xxx
People are lazy..and stooopid. (Intentional spelling😉)
@Syd McCreath I’m American & I don’t need explanation!! Lol
@Syd McCreath Another Yank here -- I have no difficulty in distinguishing between effect and affect. ... It might be more helpful to leave irrelevant categorizations of people out of this discussion.
I had a pretty easy time approximating many singer’s voices. The hardest to mimic are the imperfect ones. They’re also often the most compelling.
Astounding, really, that anyone can’t see the important distinction between correcting off-key singing and adding effects to sounds. Fantastic explanation and examples.
Great job! This is the exact reason why I stick with genuine music of the 60s, 70s, 80, and some 90s. New stuff can't and doesn't compare (except for a few artists). I laughed hard at the "like singing out of tune in a cave". Perfect.
I really like Fil's English accent. It makes "I've come to talk with you again," sound like "I've come to toke with you again.", which in general, would be way more up my alley.
Huge difference between correction, auto tune and enhancing an instrument or even a voice using effects. A good example of voice effect is Cher, Believe. Incidentally you're the best and most interesting music critic on CZcams, as no doubt millions of other people realise.
Both me and Cher were the first artist to use Protools! I had to learn to sing with singing lessons. But my album was corrected by a vocoder and Autotune. For my more difficult songs I used CZcams vocal lessons, Wings of Pegasus, Fil! My song is # ,17 in the chart and Cher is #1. I also helped Sting write " Dessert Rose" #2 May 6th, 2000. Billboard ( American Dance Charts). Cher probably didn't need to use it but that's what we were doing those days. I wanted to sound robotic ( Robin? Get it?) and not go to lessons, which I hated.
One reason I collect live performance albums and videos of live performances. The first music I listened to when I was around two and half years old were full Bach concerts with my mother singing along in the Alto parts. That was in the early 1950's it took until the McCoys came out with their version of "Hang on Sloopy" for me to pay attention to modern music. I also sang soprano in the Boys Choir at church for seven years.
Very Good demonstration.
Hello Fil. Once again, you nail it with the perfect explanation of what Auto-Tune is really all about. Highly educational discussions in this video. Thank you Fil.
Very helpful explanation and illustration! Thank you for this!
Well done! Incredible that some people need to have this explained to them. Surely it's good to have some people that are really great at something, like great artists, great musicians, writers, great cabinet makers etc etc. Otherwise what a dull world this would be!
I've watched the Beatles Get Back documentary very carefully. I took notice of the vocals during the song development, and the group rehearsals. Many times, the vocals were let's say less than perfect, but when it came time to record, The Beatles seemed to magically be pitch perfect. During the song development the focus was more on arrangment, adjusting the lyrics, and learning the words. The recordings were done live, no autotune. No post production techniques such as overdubs etc. Amazing! Would you do some analysis of The Beatles? Thank you for your professionalism!
They're out here somewhere!
Fil, that has to be the BEST example of the difference between actual talent versus pitch-correct & auto-tune. You’ve seen my comments on this debate in several of your videos, and I simply could not give a good example. Great explanation, and great video!!
The painting vs printed copy analogy was excellent! Thanks for sharing.
Love ya Fil!!
The way you've managed to simply but elegantly explained these points suggests to me that you would likely be an excellent barrister.
Fascinating, Fil. Affect and effect is a distinction I had never heard before, but it makes complete sense. Thank you for clarifying!
When I first noticed what turned out to be autotuning on songs on the radio, it was singers seeming to put very exact, articulated, fast ornamentation/melisma in their vocals. The kind of articulation that takes coloratura classical singers years to master, and that you never heard pop singers be able to do. After I heard dozens of different singers doing this, I realized something was up. It wasn't a new breed of many highly accomplished, talented, trained singers. It was a new electronic thing. The singer probably was singing very "smeary" attempts at this ornamentation, and the auto-tune was breaking the smear up into separate, exact notes in the ornamentation/melisma. I would think that as more new artists got into studios and tried, unsuccessfully to replicate that kind of singing that they heard on the radio, their own singing sounded bad to them, so they wanted the autotune on their songs as well. So autotune does not only fake pitch, if fakes control, flexibility, and exact technique in singing.
Did you hear the one Cher did (she could sing) early on where she turned the auto tune to max? It was pretty funny, and a really strange effect. You will have NO doubt that that one was auto tuned, set on about 110%.
@sydmccreath4554 I LOVE those mushrooms! ;-) I know, I need to get a life. :-/
@@MrJdsenior , Are you talking about “Believe”? I think she used a vocal reverb, turned up to 11.
@@SuziQ. It was auto tune, and yes, it was "Believe". I just searched it, to make sure I hadn't misspoken, and the point I put you in in the link at the end is one point where she used it, and you can hear the pitches stair step up, while she was doing a slide, I imagine. Reverb could and would not do that, it does not modify pitch, as was shown and discussed in this very Pegasus video. There may have been a lot of reverb added too, I didn't listen all the way through, but this is what I was referring to.
Thanks for replying though, as I hadn't heard it since this was pointed out by someone to me many years ago. I remember watching Cher on the Sonny and Cher show, which was stupid, but occasionally funny. She could sing, he most definitely was not the singing talent of the duo. He could hold a tune just fine, but that nasal voice used to make my skin crawl.
czcams.com/video/nZXRV4MezEw/video.html
If you're younger the show will probably look REALLY stupid to you if you take a look. It was a simpler, less worldly, more naive time, preferable in some respects, but not remotely all (like the rampant open racism degree that existed then). We still have problems with that, no doubt, but compared to back then, they are minor. HORRIBLE things still occur, the most horrible, but not remotely at the same rates that they did then, that is what I mean by more minor.
czcams.com/video/nZXRV4MezEw/video.html
Cheers.
Like others, I am not a musician, and a lot of times I don't really understand what you are saying about the pitch, your breathing, the change in octives, etc... But this I understand , it's just common sense that autotune and pitch correction change what's already done. When you play an insturment, you hear exactly what you are playing. I really enjoyed this video, thank you.
Bravo! we need more folks like you exposing these recording "artists" who will never be true singers. Excellent explanation and demonstration.
By the way, I was surprised to discover that a musician whose singing I've always respected, Lenny Kravitz, actually used a playback track (including the lead vocals) for his song Stillness of Heart on his 2019 tour (and most likely other songs too but I didn't investigate any other songs). I captured the audio of two fan-made videos from two separate performances of Stillness of Heart, and lined them up in a DAW, and the vocal track for the main part of the song is identical. There is a part at the end of each performance where he improvises and interacts with the audience. During that ending part is where he is really singing and not lip syncing. During the main part of the song, he can ad-lib something extra between phrases, but he lip syncs to vocal track during main part of song. I guess he does this either to preserve wear and tear of his voice for the tour, or to make the main part of the song sound perfect, but I'm no big fan of lip syncing. It's disappointing. You should make a video about this.
More likely, he can do it in the studio, but playing live, not so much.
When I sing a note out of scale, I do it again so I can say it's jazz. I learned that from playing guitar.
"There are no wrong notes." - Miles Davis.
…..a guitar player that couldn’t improvise
Love the blue notes! However those are just a bit under, not a complete whack!
Repetition legitimizes
@@gatergates8813 Repetition ultimately robotises
Very understandable explanation. Thanks Fil!
👍 Excellent. Clearly explained. Makes total, logical sense to me - and I’m just a granny, lay-person - so I hope it puts to bed a lot of those comments that might comes your way in the future. Thanks.
_Perfect, beautiful and classic song to choose for the demo; one of my all-time faves._
✌🏻 I very much enjoyed this, Fil !! Thanks for putting in the time and effort on it !! 😉😍👊🏻
Thank you Fil for a very clear explanation of auto-tune, and its ability to 'fix' vocals that are out-of-tune. It is completely different than putting reverb or echo on a vocal as an effect. My feeling is that there are those younger musicians who are very sensitive to the fact that they simply cannot sing in-tune, and so feel threatened when a true musician like yourself (who can sing in-tune), lays out the inarguable truth of what auto-tune is, and does to vocals.
I worked for the labels (and sing pro then and now) in the mid late 90s when rap was still new (although arguably Arlo and Bobby Dylan had rapped for ages). One of my bosses who later worked for rival Capitol, stated that rap would become more popular than rock for simple economic reasons; it took 50k at the time to produce a rap lp and a mill to produce and nurture the next Van Halen (his example). The result is that rap and hiphop have become so dominant as to push out most other forms of music..the exception being teenypop music which thanks to 360 deals bears no financial risk to the remaining few record monopolies (Universal, Sony, etc.) As a result, few new baby artists sing, play instruments or even know what a bridge to a song is! (Had to explain it to a young computer programmer who called himself an "artist" and wanted me to hear his songs.) We simply need a return to a time when label heads and Spotify A+Rs were former musicians themselves.
@@IMeMineWho They don't know the modes nor how they affect emotion. They don't understand how the song Sweet Home Alabama changes it's key. They don't understand how Led Zeppelin could have page in 12/8 while bonzo was in 4/4 (and the is just one example of zep's time manipulations). there is much they don't know because they are not making music. their DAW is.
@@davidmiller9485 You need a 🎤after that one (so I gave you 1)...lol. I might add that in addition most "artists" now need pro choreographers (as opposed to Ronnie Spector or Tina's revues) as their sense of rhythm lacks as well. Which is crazy because you don't even need to do anything other than pay attention to the drums and bass for that!
This has educated me for certain. Some of these corrective technologies allowing performers to appear talented is a kind of theft. I am a writer, digital artist on social media, and I feel frustration when I see my work or another artist's work being posted by someone as if it's their work. It's a form of theft. Now in my opinion these people pretending to have a singing talent are stealing in a sense. It's unfair to their listeners in my opinion. But it's fine. They give us something to talk about. 😊
So well explained. Ef-fect and Af-fect are two different words with two entirely different meanings. Thanks for this, Fil!
Another great analysis and everything you said is the truth. God bless you and all your love, stay safe and stay well.