Sir Roger Penrose: Are Singularities Real? (090)
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- čas přidán 5. 11. 2020
- #SirRogerPenrose #BlackHoles #NobelPrize Join me for a very special discussion with Sir Roger Penrose, co-winner of the 2020 Nobel Prize in physics. We will discuss Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, Black Holes, and of course, Nobel Prizes! GET OUR SLIDES: kingsumo.com/g/vn03wc/sir-rog...
A very special episode with Sir Roger Penrose, co-winner of the 2020 Nobel Prize in physics. We discuss Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, Black Holes, and of course, Nobel Prizes! Roger is a mensch. He always makes time for me and provided one of the first and most enthusiastic "blurbs" for my book, Losing the Nobel Prize. He has always been so generous with his time, even after winning the Nobel Prize when demands for his attention are relentless.
You may also enjoy this video recorded at UC San Diego in late- 2018 "Hawking Points in the CMB Sky", based loosely on his precursor book, "Cycles of Time: Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, Hawking Points in the CMB Sky" • Nobel Prize Winner Sir... Get Cycles of Time: amzn.to/2JCdKl7
Sir Roger Penrose and I will discuss his latest research including this article: Apparent evidence for Hawking points in the CMB Sky academic.oup.com/mnras/articl...
He will also share insights into the thinking of a modern day theoretical physicist. Is the Universe destined to collapse, ending in a big crunch or to expand indefinitely until it homogenizes in a heat death? Roger will explain a third alternative, the cosmological conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) scheme-where the Universe evolves through eons, each ending in the decay of mass and beginning again with new Big Bang.
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We'll also discuss possible observational searches for these cycles possibly encoded in the Cosmic Microwave Background. Lastly, tune in to hear what it's like to receive an early morning phone call from the Swedish Royal Academy of Sciences and learn you've won half a Nobel Prize!
Sir Roger Penrose, Emeritus Professor at the Mathematical Institute of the University of Oxford, winner of the Copley Medal and the Wolf Prize in Physics, which he shared with Stephen Hawking, has made profound contributions encompassing geometry, black hole singularities, the unification of quantum mechanics and general relativity, the structure of space-time, nature of consciousness and the origin of our Universe.
In 1989 Penrose wrote The Emperor’s New Mind which challenged the premise that consciousness is computation and proposed new physics to understand it.While you wait, please enjoy my previous interview with Sir Roger Penrose, about this book: • Nobel Prize in Physics...
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**DOWNLOAD SLIDES FOR THIS TALK: **kingsumo.com/g/vn03wc/sir-roger-penrose-on-the-into-the-impossible-podcast-slides** **
Ok Sr why dont we see stars clamping one in to the other near the BH so to make a bigger star as GR predicts it should hapens? Why do an orange star get the jump in speed way up far to the right from the blackhole spot that most around go?
Why is it asking for my consent to receive sales and promotion emails? Doesn't sound fair to me.
Is there a link that is still active? seems odd to not have it up permanently
Thanks I fixed it!
Hello Brian, great talk with Roger, as was your talk with Stephen Wolfram and Eric Weinstein. I have a question about entropy (2nd Law of Thermodynamics). Why is it that entropy still increases in a Black Hole? That seems counter-intuitive. Roger touched on it, but I'm still baffled. Wouldn't the fact that everything is being brought together and converging be lowering the entropy, and that a White Hole the entropy would be increasing, because everything is spreading out and diverging like the 'gas in a box' example that Roger used? Yet Roger says the complete opposite (black holes increasing entropy, white holes decreasing entropy). Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm confused about this aspect. I look forward to your explanation.
It's cool that Roger has been recognized, no matter how old his paper was. His new work will get more attention, which is very exciting.
My ultimate goal in life is to be as sharp and vivacious as Roger at the same age!
Me too!
How humble can you be to hang up on your Nobel Prize phone call, saying, "They'll call back if it's important."? I love this man and his brilliant mind.
Penrose's 2020 Noble Prize is one of the few best things to come out of 2020. Warms my heart... :) Great pod Brian!
Thx! More to come this week Jason!
This happened for me as well. I am still feeling great about this award for Sir Roger Penrose.
@@DrBrianKeating I can understand not being able to snare the other two 2020 Nobel Prize winners for Physics but why would you dilute a potentially wonderful interview with Roger Penrose by superimposing Trivia from Weinstein and Levin. Doesn’t make sense
Penrose is the best physicist since Einstein and Feynman. Well deserved and overdue
@@MichaelAntonFischer Yes agreed! Penrose diagrams are the Feynman diagrams of spacetime.
What a lovely way to show appreciation to this lovely man, few deserve such recognition more than Penrose
Thank you Sir Roger for your contribution to the knowledge of the universe, your books and your class and kindness. You are a world treasure.
Thank you so much Dr Brian and Sir Roger. It was a great time!
My pleasure!!
Telemarketers! They suck up time more relentlessly than Black Holes
but seriously, the range and power of Penrose's intellect is amazing. he reminds me of Michio Kaku, in the respect that he thinks without limits
Following Sir Roger all my life, I feel that the Noble Prize was long overdue……
We will meet again in the conformal future when we are all redshifted into each other
Sir Roger, A Great inspiration. My Hero! Greatest Mind of our times. I wish him all the good health. Hope I can attend one of his lectures in the future. Cycles of time - What a beautiful book. This is a great talk. Thanks for doing this Brian and keep them coming.
I do it for the fun. Stay tuned. Send more recommendations!
Am really sorry I couldnt watch the live-stream!
But 10k view overall is criminaly underrated!
This is just awesome. I love this podcast. Thank you so much for making it.
You're doing important work here Dr. Keating. I really appreciate it.
Thanks Vaughn. Do you have guest recommendations or other improvements to suggest?
Thank you for this!
Brian, dude, turn your phone off (or on silent) when you're hosting a podcast.
dont be mean he's doing his best
Damn telemarketers...they suck more time than a Black Hole!
@@johntavers6878 I'm sure that you're right, and I wasn't intending to be mean. I appologize if it came off that way. However, my intuition, is that "your best" is not fixed, but is a floating variable, and while you could in fact be doing Your Best, as Your Best is defined right now, Your Best can change, such that future versions of Your Best can be greater than past versions. Through graciously assimilating good faith constructive criticism, we can push Our Best to ever greater heights. :)
Why? It gave the guests the opportunity to speak freely, don't be a Karen!
@@DrBrianKeating lol
great stuff, sorry i missed the live stream, congratz :)
The real Mr. Rogers
My all-time favourite Professor since 1976 when I read 'Relativity & Cosmology' and saw Penrose diagrams. I've been fascinated by this subject ever after. What wouldn't I give to have a mind like Sir Roger. Ah well, go stand in the corner Shaun and just listen, you might learn something!
Who was your all-time favorite before Prof before 1976?
Roger Penrose AND Eric Weinstein?! Brian, you’re coming out with the best content/guests I’ve seen from any podcast lately! Thank you!
It's truly my honor ;;; let me know other recommended guests
@@DrBrianKeating Daniel Schmachtenberger has a lot of insight, more about society & philosophy than science per se.
@@DrBrianKeating John Preskill
@@DrBrianKeating Jim Baggott and Scott Aaronson would be good guests
@@DrBrianKeating Frank Tipler, Douglas Hofstadter, Jim Gates (2nd time), Hans Moravec? Greg Egan (Science Fiction writer).
It's always a pleasure to listen to people who love discussing these topics.
Found another great Roger Penrose interview and just subscribed to your channel. Looking forward to checking out your wide variety of videos. They all look intriguing. Well done on this one for sure!
Thanks very much I hope you like it here 😀
Great content Brian!!! I absolutely enjoy listening to Sir Roger Penrose...His brain is so vivid and he is simply a charismatic and humble human being!!
Bernard Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation? Please join my mailing list to get FREE notes and resources from this show! click here: **briankeating.com/mailing_list.php*
1:13:15 Roger Penrose hodling back a laugh like a pro. Im Dyin XD
I had just left a comment on one of Eric's videos a couple weeks ago about how he was my second favorite mathematician and physicist, in the world and that my very favorite was none other than sir Rodger Penrose.
He has 4 papers and none of particular note lmao
Love how he picks up right where he left off after the frozen part. Too funny. Great podcast!
Thanks!
I was astounded, its like he never stopped.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Thank you to our host and guests. Masterfully done and you make it fun, too. I am a layman and not gifted in the sciences.
Thank you, very much Fred
I love Penrose's off-handed use of the terms "swirling around" and "swishing out again". Those are official, professional physicist terms! ;)
Aaawwww that’s AWESOME! Congrats
I love Sir Roger Penrose and his work.
the smartest people in the world and they can't balance the audio
Im nothing but a simple brick layer and roger has always been a hero of mine,
Aw! Eric looks in love, whether Roger Speaks. 😊
Ahaa! Brian has the massive book Gravitation second from the left on his bookshelf! Luckily the spcetime curvature caused by it didn't render this video incomprehensible like it did most of the text in the book when I used to study it-
I really want to hear his response to Roy Kerrs recent paper on this stating the singularity is avoided because of centrifugal forces and that the affine parameter of Falling Light does not conclude with a singularity because light does not experience time. Kerr said the interior is not dissimilar to a neutron star and that a real singularity does not actually exist.
After this I want to try and find his speech accepting the prize! Thanks for the video
Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/list
Constructive feedback: Your multi-cam setup is cool but how often you switch views and fiddle what's displayed on screen is very distracting. You need to pick two or three "scenes", have the overlay for each calibrated in advance of recording, and only switch between them sparingly.
Thanks for the good advice
Thank you, both! I’ll try to improve my switch skillz.
I never really wanted to solve equations for black holes, Hawking radiation or Giza gravitational results. I just wanted to see what Einstein and Newton had to say about g.
I adore him. I could listen to him forever.
couple of suggestions I've learned after doing many migrations around the world never lifting my ass from my homebase:)
-have secondary comms channels (chat apps/voip/mobile) to confirm internet/power down events
-when adding additional people, check if other were not put on hold automagically... because skype
-magic yourself up on rogan's podcast (ask eric for a favour;) - then get yourself a jamie with a phd - so that you don't have to multitask - you are missing interesting hooks for possible streams for the conversation ;)
.. oh, and ditch the overhead camera - it's awkward, adds nothing and shows when you are multitasking and just semi following the conversation;)
edit: keep up the awesome job!
Thanks I really appreciate the feedback. I’m always learning. This isn’t my day job but I want to be as professional as possible!
@@DrBrianKeating hope this didn't sounded harsh, as it was put with much love;)
@@DrBrianKeating It may not be your day job, but could still prove to be some of your most important work. Posterity may look back and be as charmed by the minor foibles as I am today. As you implement the feedback, we might sadly miss some of the relatable human element. Thank you, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing. A hearty congrats to Sir Roger! Eric W always inspires! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Mark! I’ll try to improve. Keep suggestions for improvement and guests coming. I’ll have Janna Levin this Tuesday morning then a huge livestream Tuesday night.
1:06:18 "The temperature goes up when you squash the future -- the temperature goes down when you stretch the big bang" -- That sounds super fun -- I did not know that :D
Salute Sir!
Been a total Penrose fanboy since my brother gave me a dog-eared copy of The Emperor's New Mind. Now a Keating fanboy too... Thanks for the great content - accessible and fascinating even to a curious layperson like me :-)
Thanks Nick love hearing that
Thank you
Something about crossing roads and scientific discoveries. In "the making of the atomic bomb" it is described that Leo Szilard got the idea of controlled nuclear fission chain reactions while crossing the street as well.
Perhaps a potentially dangerous situation that kicks your brain into a different gear? Fascinating nonetheless.
Roger surely is one of my all time favorite physicists, thanks for making this happen!
I came here from Gogier I must say I enjoyed this as I always enjoy Penrose
Glad you’re here
Hi Brian, thank you for this interview. Can you get Donald Hoffman please. Cheers
These talks with Roger Penrose are so awesome. Lol
🤯🤘⚡
James Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/mailing_list.php
Humans are mostly who’s living on a flower, unaware of the universe outside their awareness….fascinating discussion, as clear as mud but covers the subject, and platypus are the only mammal that lays eggs..
Like Sir Rogers, I also was inspired by complex analysis and the magic of quaternions and octonions and when the octonions explained the quarks, I was all gaga. Later I learned the limitations of octonions and how reality wasn't reflected by mathematical models. Yet like Penrose I was impressed by mathematics beyond description. Only a mathematician could explain a singularity and explain what happens at the end times, with massless Higgs fields. Thank you Sir Rogers, only you could claim mathematics id based on faith.
I do like this CCC idea I've always felt that 13.5 billion years ain't that long when you consider how long the universe will last before heat death and when you consider our planet has been around for 4.6 billion years too.
So like plane geometry, there are postulates that differ according to the curvature of time and space, where rules in one type of geometry do not necessarily apply to to spherical geometry. Where angles in a triangle can be more or less than 180 degrees and parallel lines do not exist. So there may be branches of physics where quantum theories work and general relativity doesn't.
@Dr Brian Keating There seems to be some sort of cut/jump in the video at 38:40
Mathematician Ramanujan worked on SINGULARITY and deduced two singularities. He was probably the first to discover them, but maybe not event horizon as Penrose discovered much later.
The point about the British acceptance of unusual and eccentric and unorthodox intellectuals , as being actual respected INSIDERS (itals) in British society, deserves intensive and detailed analysis; because it may help us to mould our societies into those which accept Off-beat and Non-standard(BUT ALSO detailed and scholarly, AND encompassing real knowledge & insight) investigations and theories, as being worthy of our consideration. This more pronounced Societal and Public and Intellectual and Academic acceptance of unusual and unorthodox and boundary-crossing intellectuals is a definite feature of Britain; it doesn't seem to matter (or it matters less) in the U.K. what clique they belong to, or what their formal qualifications are, or whether their work seems a bit crazy.....the intellectual bad boys in Britain are at least given a hearing, and good numbers of them are respected.
Also, good science communicators and explainers have quite a high status in the UK. The studied disdain of the practicing scientist for those who spend most of their time explaining science is Not(!) justifiable; the ability to Extremely Clearly explain scientific concepts to non-specialists may be as rare a skillset as the ability to make a significant scientific discovery.
From 42:00 Sir Roger speaks about how the 'core' of the singularity is more like a space than a point. I heard him also say that it's more non-local. I don't understand physics but that sounds a bit like the implicate order of another great physicist David Bohm. Could there be a connection?
Can we download the slides without signing for spam ads??? It would be nice.
Live yes
Brian, I sincerely wish you get Noble. I hope you are working on something which would lead you there. You have my Noble anyways for making me interested in Physics.
contour integrate around anything to get rid of the singularity. You don't have to worry about black holes.
Sir Roger Penrose is amazing !
What was sir Roger's answer to the conformal mapping of singularities then?
Look at the symmetric movement positions the strings behind him.
The do make perfect match with his body alignment.
Debunked once and for all
What an enormous privilege to be able to watch such an interesting and stimulating interview with this brilliant giant.
Good questions from Dr. Keating and Dr. Weinstein.
Thanks John! Stay tuned for more great guests!
I wish a dust in my apartment was collapsing into a single spot... then I would place a bin there :)
At one point, Penrose said in the boring universe there are photons and something else. What did he have in mind?
NIce list of other channels.
Wow. Yeah you need Eric level to get interesting stuff out from Roger. Not that I understand much of it. But thank you so much for this conversation.
Given Brian Keating's intellectual pedigree, tenacity, and unexampled style, I predict this title will one day renamed to "Two Nobel prize winners converse."
Let's hope it's renamed to "Three Nobel prize winners converse" or Eric won't be too happy!
@@ahmedmak5927 Maybe four with Janna Levin too!
@@DrBrianKeating I didn't realize she was on but that would be the dream! My bad, tuned in too late haha
I hope so? If he has the courage. Peace ✌️
Good to see you Curt. That would be a nice bit of instant karma.
Brian mute your shit if you're not talking lol. That phone was a buzz kill
its a really cool mantra tho, eat food shit heat. its the story of life, food eats light, we eat food, we emit high entropy light.
Read The Entropy Law and the Economic Process by Georgescu-Roegen
wow you figured it all out
If black holes have entropy (Hawking) they also have syntropy or entangled entropy!
Syntropy (prediction) is dual to increasing entropy -- the 4th law of thermodynamics.
"Through imagination and reason we turn experience into foresight (prediction)" -- Spinoza describing syntropy.
Syntropy is "converging information" or mutual information resulting from rational thinking to create optimized predictions which are used to track targets -- teleology.
All observers track targets!
Teleological physics (syntropy) is dual to non-teleological physics (entropy).
Randomness (entropy) is dual to order (syntropy. determinism).
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
If black holes have syntropy then the question becomes are black holes conscious, are black holes alive?
@@hyperduality2838 yes they are. So are stars. And Gaia is real too
@@gekkobear1650 Entropy becomes mutual information in Shannon's information theory!
Mutual or common information, entangled entropy = syntropy.
Duality converts entropy, information into syntropy or predictable information.
What no picture Dr Keating I'm disappointed, I believe I deserved a picture SIR. I love Penrose he is a great dude.
Singularum Infinitum filled with electro-magnetic energy, that is what we have here. This electro-magnetic energy is transformed into bodies in the next eon and these bodies are moving charges hurling through space and exxerting force on the surrounding ether, which in turn exerts a force on bodies that we perceive as a gravitational force.
There seems to be more at the nano scale of strings and flexible propeller shaped fermions. AND FLEXIBLE PHOTON STRINGS.
where does the = sign come into the equation relative to maths and physics
Brian Keating reacting to words like "shower", lets goooooooooooooo
The 2 cones to the left of the picture were the bottom one is upside down and the one on top its tip end meets with the bottom one where a letter P is to the left of the picture right in between there must to be a disk that is like a splash of both energys sides since it looks to me both sides get treaded at the center by making the neutral or the equator at the middle of the systems in between the 2 cones that is my suggestion based in a DNA PICTURE is form done by DNA PHOTOGRAPH VIA X RAY DEFRACTION in you tube where all entangled pairs CROSS same middle center point.
Being inspired at about the 30 minute point, I think I've had a brain-material quantum coupling because I'm wondering what a Black Hole would say to us if we could anthropomorphize it. I'm thinking it might point out that it's substrate is, at least from its perspective, ordered and the substrates of all the things outside of a black hole is what is actually entropic. But, I'm probably missing something and the math will likely work anyway. It's just like "Just cancel out a minus sign."
I loved contour integration.
Entropy / wear and tear internal to matter...
"No energy system can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all energy systems."
Please have Sir Roger return to discuss how differences in the equivalency principle at changing places alters the local vacuum or describes how the local vacuum is varying from place to place accordingly. At video time 48:30.
The physical distinction Penrose made numerous times between the Weyl curvature and the Ricci curvature is appreciated, and not often elucidated. Also a reminder of Gauss’ law in calculating net charge from a closed surface around a charge density, which could be infinite. However, Penrose’s singularity theorem is not as accessible as these simple concepts. He uses advanced analytical geometry to prove geodesic incompleteness, in the form of a closed, trapped surface that “focuses” all light rays inward together. This is equated with a breakdown, a singularity. However, this could be alternatively interpreted as a local observer reaching the edge of spacetime in a finite amount of time and then forever frozen in time. One can then ask whether the singularity ever forms in a finite amount of time.
I will have a look.
I personally think that the measurement is simply us updating our knowledge of the quantum system.
the humble rockstarof math: the doc
Looking like an astronomers schedule.
Legendary! Thanks for this. These sorts of conversations make me want to take your physics classes at UCSD
Please do!!
So I'm quite happy that I've moved science forward, in real life time. Sol was an interesting listen especially the EMFSYSTEMS part. I have much more much more. But let's see where they go. Peace 😎 ✌️ from Canada, eh.
Well done Dr keating and crew exelent conversation with Sir Penroe congragulations to you good man, is my plasure to listen to you all, thanx for the space to share ideas. - Excuse me but is there just one in flash or are there 2 flashes one from the inside that hits the concave inside part that rays wil be returned and converged to a central point is my guess if the flash is inside a sphere, now if the flash is coming from the out and hits the out complex side what happens here is that the rays will in the most be reffracted to all directions, in my opinion both rays(the incoming and the outgoing) dont have much of a chance to converge in kind of half and half but the inside flash will be forced to concentrate at center of the sphere while the complex outside diverges the flash rays to every where so the differense of the outside willbe much less than the inside. - See it in the sun as an exemple the sun sphere must to be stronger than the inside explosions so it may hold the explosions full of matter and light that just a bit of it goes out from the sun white sphere, lots of matter and light is reffracted back to the inside sun, at this place just out the sun light is way more strong than any incoming matter-light from around space so it goes out almos free but as it goes up from around this so hot light is refractted back little by little due to some other electromagnetism that the systems have to all around, some light goes out the solar system that the same hapens to other stars so is the light that we see from around. - The incoming light from the cosmos and the out put from the stars from all around they kind of get both to a neutral point that is much alike to a galaxie form that looks like an UFO FLY CRAFT or kind of the form of Teslas one flying craft disign. Think that if the explosion happens at the center of the sun light would just go up and down back and forth.
to a point that it will be diminished as it goes up and down from the center of the sun to as high from all around it could get same thing will be fro the out side reffracted light due to the other electromagnetic halos that star systems must have so at bounses out the system and to the inside of the systemlight gets demolished more and more, anlist this is my point of view but my self could be wrong.
That was awesome. All of them fine gentlemen, great minds yet honest and humble. The best of humanity on display.
Thanks very much !
The link for the slides is not working...
Why is there no discussion of the effect of angular momentum on the shape of the singularity?
Hopefully the cosmic gravity wave background will show more Hawking points.
Do we still have matter within a singularity? If it was just energy then it could occupy the same space.
The big is for the small and the small is for the big they shood both some how be united sinse no matter how big you tell me a system is it for sure as well the others will be of atoms, so how a thing may go off not to be entangled when all inside atoms of any body must all be entangled one to an other.
One of Sir Roger's lecturers made me laugh so, not disrespectfully, heaven forbid; but I see him standing, in front of an overhead projector, colored markers in hand saying: "never mind Disney, this is what a Black Hole looks like" in four colours! I could of cried.
Or, "Is Oxygen really needed?"
Newton demonstrated optically what the Quantum Operator minimum action, the Singularity Apature of Actuality Conception communicated in conformity rates of time-timing sync-duration of Pure Dynamic Mathematics 1-0 probability superposition-spin-spiral recirculation holographic quantization. Logarithmic Time.
Is it possible to edit the subtitles??
Can anyone do that?
CZcams recently killed that feature.
@@flowerpt ohh
The science of the marriage between singularities ⚭