Cables Matter: Mini-Reviews of Several Headphone Cables Part 2 - High End Cables

[@babakgholian3467]

The best ones are mad of gold !!!!

[@GregoryfromTrier]

SUPER reviews !! Truly useful. Thank you

[@felixfranzen7318]

There are no audible differences between quality headphone cables (like Amazon basics and anything above). Same as there are no audible difference between modern audio electronics like DACs, streamers, amps and whathaveyou.
The trouble is it's really hard to administer a proper double blind test with headphone cables.
That doesn't mean new cables is a bad investment. Better headphones cables could be lighter, more sturdy and durable, look better, less prone to get twisted and tangled, shorter or longer, more flexible etc. All perfectly sound reason for buying new cables. They will not change the sound one iota though.

[@pinohk852]

Hi. Great Video. Really glad to come across this one.
I am looking for a cable for my Fostex TH900 which can bring more energy to the bass, without dimming down treble too much.
May I ask whats the main different between PLUSSOUND X8 and Eletech Inferno from your experience?

[@theodorezurla496]

Favorite cable for He 1000se?

[@wavetheorysound]

If you like bright the Lavricables Grand Silver does great with it. If you want to bring the treble down a bit I liked both the Plussound X8 and the Eletech Inferno.

[@eddierivera3525]

Nice video! I was really looking forward to this. What cable do you think works best with LCD-5? Thanks.

[@pokrog]

I've wondered for a while if using dual 4.4mm inputs on the headphones and using multiple contact points in pairs for the positives and negatives would make for more contact surface and help with sound. The 3.5mm TS connections really aren't making a ton of contact at any given time and I can't help but believe that taking advantage of the extra contact area of a 4.4mm could yield some worthwhile benefits. I guess you could even use a pair of rings and another pair of rings joined with the tip for most contact area.

[@kato2395]

I don't really know for sure that cables will make difference in sound or not but in my experience it does noticeably change sound in some headphones especially the transparent, bright and airy sounding headphones like the ADX5000. I did not expect my Forza HPC MKII is going to make any difference but the headphone suddenly become more aggressive with the bass, it becomes so much more punchy and I was not really expecting or wanting that to happen at first but I've gotten used to the sound and enjoy the more punchy bass on the ADX5000 now.
That being said until now my stand is only to buy the cable that looks and feel good without caring much about the kind of sound it is going to make. That is why I bought the HPC MKII instead of the Noir Hybrid, because it is cheaper and the look is the same as the more expensive Noir Hybrid. I might have bought the Noir Hybrid if I knew it is going to change the sound like this. But boy does the forza cable look super cool on my ADX5000! Handsome cable!

[@robertbaker4291]

​ @wavetheorysound Are you going to do more Cables Matter series videos?

[@Cp48533]

Another great video wavetheory Have you heard apos flow cable?

[@wavetheorysound]

No, have not heard any Flows yet.

[@brianmcleanjr]

Any experience with the Moon Audio Black/Silver Dragon?

[@chungang7037]

to tighten up that lowend?

[@wavetheorysound]

Very limited and only with Utopia. I didn't find either to be preferable to my Vygarde.

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

How is the inferno with the Susvara? Does it get loose?

[@wavetheorysound]

I didn't notice it but didn't get huge amounts of time with that specific combo.

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

@@wavetheorysound Thanks for the reply. It’s a very pretty cable. It would be a shame if it doesn’t fit any Hifiman headphones snugly

[@johenkay1129]

@@NexusS4GIceJelly I just got my inferno and it fits perfectly with the Susvara. I'm not worried about the cable falling out, it's fairly tight.
I forgot to mention how amazing they look with the susvara's. I'm still burning in the cable but it sounds really good so far.

[@johenkay1129]

@@wavetheorysound Dang, that is the combo I would have liked you to have tried.

[@Michael_mki233]

One thousand dollars for a cable?! What possessed that friend of yours to do that?

[@wavetheorysound]

I think he just likes listening to me ramble 🤣

[@alphaniner3770]

My take: I do think that designing a cable that transfers an audio signal as perfectly as possible is nailed already, and can be produced for a relatively modest price. Ergonomics and durability is what is really important. Pro-audio is where this can be easily found.
- what we have here are cables that are a lot more expensive than what is needed to make a near perfect cable (a perfect cable doesn't exist). What is that makes them special apart from the price and looks? - indeed, they alter the signal - lets assume not by chance, but by design. This can be nice for us, to tweak the sound into better sound - like using black box tone control. But then, it is actually paying to fix a mistake made before - by buying the wrong headphone and/or amplifier. Just a thought to consider.

[@wavetheorysound]

I appreciate the well stated points, but I think there might be a couple misconceptions underneath them. You're accurate in stating that there is no cable that will transmit an audio signal perfectly. They are all going to shift the various frequencies around in time to some degree and reorganize the waveform (unless said waveform is a pure sine wave). It's these chronological shifts stacking up on each other that leads to increases & decreases in wave amplitude at given points in the signal. These new amplitudes are almost always different than what they're supposed to be. (It should be noted here that 20Hz-20KHz pure sine wave sweep measurements have no way to catch these effects.) These amplitude changes have an impact on the tonal character of the sound. But these chronologic shifts also mess with wave info that our brains use for spatial localization and other subtleties. Simply using equalization can partially undo the tonal damage but are powerless to recover the lost info that helps with spatial presentation and other losses of resolution. Given that ALL cables will do this to signals to various degrees, it makes sense to approach solving the problem in a multiple ways to produce different results and let consumers decide which they like best.
But, what does "pass an audio signal as perfectly as possible" really mean? Is it to not mess with the signal? In an ideal world, sure. But signal messing-with is unavoidable; it is a consequence of the reality that the electromagnetic energy that is an audio signal has to pass through a physical material. So then the questions become what level of messing with or what kinds of messing with are acceptable? And the problem with those questions is that there is no one answer. Your messing with tolerance and my messing with tolerance are very likely to be different. That's one reason why so many different cable companies exist. They're basically saying "here's a new kind of signal messing-with that we like and think might work for you!"
Finally, as to the need for a cable being because someone bought the wrong headphone/amp/dac, the reality is there are far more people than there are models of headphone/amp/dac/speaker/streamer/etc. It should be 100% expected that there will be multiple individuals whose preferences land between what any 2 products can offer, even if the signal could be transmitted perfectly. And since equalization only partially fixes tonal problems, it makes sense to have other options available for these "fixes."
Thanks again for your thoughts and for watching. 🍻

[@alphaniner3770]

@@wavetheorysound Thanks for the extensive reply, I really appreciate that.
I am here to learn and aware that my knowledge is limited and my ideas are prone to bias. The way I see it is that an analogue audio signal through a cable is a current with a certain voltage that goes up and down through time. Waveforms of different frequencies are added up to form that certain voltage at any given moment; frequency waves don't travel as separate entities through the cable - they are part of one voltage level/signal. The idea of separate signals through a cable idea might be tempting for some, but it is physically impossible for the audio equipment that we use to produce - except that we have a stereo signal of course. A speaker transfers this voltage signal into movement and then sound (basically compressed and decompressed air, again with a certain density at any given moment - where stereo and all sorts of reflections are added to form what another CZcamsr called a 'soup'). Our impressive brains are capable to reconstruct this sound mess again, so we can identify separate voices, different instruments, directions etc. Cables just have one job, and that is to leave this alternating voltage current as intact as possible. A (near) perfect cable should allow the voltage to ramp up and down with as little delay as possible. Because the higher frequencies ramp up and down the fastest, they are also affected the most if a cable is sub optimal - say 'lazy' - with inferior capacitance/inductance/resistance. A (near) perfect cable will most notably allow a 'bright' signal to pass as it is. Any cable that tames down brightness (for example a 'warm' sounding cable) is in fact technically flawed - as it will not allow the (high) frequencies ramp up and down fast enough, and therefore generally loose amplitude.
Of course, many people (me included) don't really appreciate 'bright' sound - while the audio industry with it's drive towards ever more resolving equipment got a lot 'brighter' - characteristics that are generally seen as selling points for DACs and amplifiers are in fact double edged swords - especially if the quality of recording/mastering is added in the mix.
Of course, to make a certain setup a bit more enjoyable other cables could be a solution. I do think though that (near) perfect cables can designed and produced for a relatively modest price. Then there is no reason that cables that are in fact flawed (by design or by chance) should be more expensive than their (near) perfect counterparts. Although I would agree that it can be difficult to get gear that perfectly matches all expectations, I think that cables should come after everything else is settled. Also I think that a perfect cable match could just as well be achieved with cables that are modestly priced - although of course confirmation bias after a hefty purchase can be tricky. My way now is to invest in pro audio cables - I am selling off my audiophile cables and because prices of these went up quite a bit getting the same money I paid for them (some products doubled in price in a few years - which should make one wonder actually). I am casually rolling into the world of tube amplifiers now.
Well that is it. Please view this as my ideas - nothing more. Disagreeing or pointing out any misconceptions is fine.

[@wavetheorysound]

@@alphaniner3770 Your explanation of how we get sound out of a speaker is pretty good. We may be slightly at odds with the claim that (near) perfect cables can be designed and produced for modest prices. Of course, one man's "modest price" is another man's fortune is another man's pocket change and so forth so there's a subjective aspect to that, as with most things in audio. But, more to the point, I don't think that (nearly) perfect really exists. I think our only option really is "least bad", or maybe more accurately "least bad I can acquire within my budgetary constraints." The waveform of a music signal from even a 3 piece band with a vocalist is very complex and has a myriad of tiny voltage fluctuations. You are correct that a number of those are in the treble. The point being that tiny shifts to those can have big impacts to the patterns we hear due to wave superposition and our own pattern recognition. Right now it's hard for me to see a meaningful "nearly perfect" standard. Unfortunately a YT comment thread is not the medium to fully flesh that out. But, I do appreciate your views and comments and your willingness to respectfully discuss.
Cheers, my friend. I hope you're enjoying some well-superimposed waveforms transmitted acceptably 🍻

[@alphaniner3770]

@@wavetheorysound Thanks once again. Reading your last reply I think that our ideas are actually a lot closer than where a YT comment thread normally seems to end up. I cannot disagree on anything here, which gives quite a bit of satisfaction. That said, I must say that I really appreciate your channel as a whole - when you review stuff I own(ed) it is generally spot on or very close to my own impressions - which brings in a lot of value for stuff I don't know (... yet). Cheers to you too, my friend ;o)

[@imranchishti5457]

No. I dont want to hang a lanyard around my neck so I can listen to a $1k cable . For that much money the cable should be feather light. That is the worst headphone cable of the lot. It's not worth getting a cervical vertebra disc prolapse.

[@nonchalantd]

♥

[@SimpleMailWork]

Yo, extortionate prices for cables are not justified in any way, their cost is 10 times less than their cost!

[@Nebo600]

Right. How do you measure cost per sound quality? In other words, What does a $1000 copper cable vs $100 copper cable, differ in sound quality? Is it monumental or minimal? I see his point with a cable sounding more warm or bright but how does one measure the difference?

[@chungang7037]

@@Nebo600never measure anything, that is key here. ;)

[@michaellichnovsky8397]

@chungang7037 now you’re just trolling. I hope it makes you feel good inside, big man.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

@@Nebo600 Cables don't have "sound quality."

[@Maaruks]

This is rubbish. I have tried many of those cables and I have never heard any difference whatsoever.
I still own some silver cables (Lavricables) but not because they affect the sound.

[@Greg.Siucrazyforaudio2016]

you need a high quality headphone , DAC , AMP to hear the difference , not normal gear can tell the difference ! i.e. 1080p , 4k , 8k cable tv things . if yoyu have a hd tv with 8k hdmi cable , would it do anything to the hd tv , so simple Thank You !

[@chungang7037]

I like your reviews, but I can't say I agree on cables. Even if you could actually hear a difference, and show us in monitored blind tests, I frankly wouldn't care; the way cables and dacs are abused in this hobby to keep people chasing the dragon and having the fear of missing out is beyond forgivable. "Get a ____ cable to tighten up the lowend and add some sparkle to the highs" and other marketing bs is as bad as any market doublespeak I've ever heard.

[@kajetan9550]

Dacs? Really?😂 Nothing comes from marketing because the companies’ webpages are pure bullshit 99% of the time. All comes from personal tests on specific systems

[@Hugo_Furst-x]

Have you heard them? How can you comment, if you haven't? Nobody is forcing you to buy them. In my experience, there are differences.

[@chungang7037]

@@Hugo_Furst-x In my experience you'll hear more differences in sound when simply buying a new pair of headphones and selling the old one if it so troublesome to use it, but hey, you do you.

[@kajetan9550]

@@chungang7037 that is true. That’s the use case it doesn’t make sense for, when you can upgrade your headphone for that. What if you have your already endgame pair and want to make the most of it?

[@chungang7037]

@@kajetan9550 I'd say do some research first before spending loads of money. Even trained musicians fail tests or can't say for certain what instrument they are listening to when blindfolded. Who knew, the brain plays tricks on you when you are told something is better or different when you know what you are listening to.

[@Tacet137]

We truly live in a post truth society

[@chungang7037]

agree

[@harackmw]

I was going to leave a comment but ...this is far better.