Should The U.S. Bury Its Power Lines?

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  • čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
  • Burying power lines is an expensive but sure-fire way to practically eliminate the risk of utility-caused wildfires, which have devastated towns across California. PG&E, the nation’s largest utility, has been found liable for numerous wildfires in the state. In an effort to prevent future disasters, the utility is planning to underground 10,000 miles of distribution lines in fire-prone areas, including 2,100 miles through 2026.
    But it’s not cheap. PGE’s plan would likely cost tens of billions of dollars, to be paid for by customers through their utility bills. This is causing some to advocate for cheaper, alternate options such as insulating power lines, though PG&E maintains that undergrounding is by far the safer bet. The path forward will be at least partially determined in November, when PG&E’s regulator, the California Public Utilities Commission, votes on the utility’s proposed four-year budget.
    Chapters:
    00:00 - Introduction
    02:02 - Undergrounding advantages
    05:15 - Costs and challenges
    08:29 - Need to act
    Produced and shot by: Katie Brigham
    Edited by: Nic Golden Henry
    Additional Camera: Sydney Boyo
    Animation: Andrea Schmitz, Christina Locopo
    Supervising Producer: Jeniece Pettitt
    Additional Footage: PG&E, Getty Images
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    Should The U.S. Bury Its Power Lines?

Komentáře • 712

  • @Zero11235
    @Zero11235 Před 8 měsíci +79

    Speaking as someone in the industry, who has advocated for underground versus overhead for over a decade, the primary issue is upfront costs versus lifetime costs. Underground is around 6-10x more expensive, in terms of cost to engineer & construct. However, when viewed from a lifetime cost perspectives, underground can be cheaper. The problem is getting the various Public Service Commissions that regulate the industry to shift towards a lifetime cost perspective.

    • @piccalillipit9211
      @piccalillipit9211 Před 8 měsíci +13

      *IN MY EU COUNTRY* the vast majority are buried. No fires, looks nicer, lower EMI
      Also, all ours are in conduit - a bundle of like 6 conduits that run from access point to access point - so you can run other telecoms and fibre optic etc AND you can repair stuff without having to dig the road up.

    • @Zero11235
      @Zero11235 Před 8 měsíci +5

      @@piccalillipit9211 Yes, ductbank construction is certainly preferable to direct bury. The only issue you’ll run into again is the discussion of immediate costs versus lifetime costs. Additionally, depending on the route, you may be able to lease that fiber to telecom companies & offset a significant portion of the cost for the electric utility.

    • @piccalillipit9211
      @piccalillipit9211 Před 8 měsíci +4

      @@Zero11235 We have the advantage that nearly all the infrastructure was put in under the communist governments pre-1992 - where the lifetime cost was all that mattered.
      Much of the city is covered with 1m x 1.5m underground "tunnels" that contain everything, the city heating system, the gas, the telecoms, the electricity. We still benefit every day from that investment 60 years ago.

    • @antronx7
      @antronx7 Před 8 měsíci

      ​​@@piccalillipit9211But in your contry there iz problem and ze problem iz transport.

    • @kreek22
      @kreek22 Před 8 měsíci

      @@Zero11235 I suspect the cost differential has widened recently, in a way that disfavors buried lines, due to higher interest rates. Another thing is that tech advances (solar, SMR nukes) may render many large lines unnecessary by making power generation much more distributed.

  • @myownboss1
    @myownboss1 Před 8 měsíci +30

    Simple answer: YES!!! Born and raised in Los Angeles in an area with utility poles and every heavy wind or rain (or a car hitting a pole), like clockwork, the power would go out. In 2006, I moved to a neighborhood north of Los Angeles with buried lines (no poles). The new neighborhood is actually much windier than L.A. was and the power does NOT go out. I think I can count on ONE HAND the number of times the power has gone out since 2006; it even stayed on during the recent ‘hurricane’ we experienced in Southern California!!!! 😮👍

    • @kreek22
      @kreek22 Před 8 měsíci +2

      In LA, people ought to have solar and a small battery system. That would suffice.

  • @Aubue
    @Aubue Před 8 měsíci +127

    Burying the power lines is an investment in safety.
    Think about all the money spent recovering from wildfires and the lost homes, lives, and the suffering. This upfront cost is worth it.

    • @daniil3815
      @daniil3815 Před 8 měsíci +3

      Sounds like you think that majority of wildfires caused by high voltage lines

    • @bftjoe
      @bftjoe Před 8 měsíci +1

      If the dry conditions are there, a wildfire will happen regardless of underground power lines. It might reduce the risk slightly, but the forests still need to be managed better, whether it be thru controlled burns or other measures.

    • @thetowerfantasymusic
      @thetowerfantasymusic Před 8 měsíci

      Except in Hawaii it was man made

    • @joeaaronsen
      @joeaaronsen Před 8 měsíci

      I would think burying power lines will save on insurance rates for homeowners and utilities, which could amount to a lot of savings in the long run, especially as insurance rates have been increasing with natural disaster damage.

    • @bftjoe
      @bftjoe Před 8 měsíci

      @joeaaronsen A lighting strike or any number of things could easily be the ignition source for a fire when the conditions are favorable. Any insurance savings would likely be minimal.

  • @TheLiamster
    @TheLiamster Před 8 měsíci +249

    This should be done in areas that are prone to frequent natural disasters

    • @samsonsoturian6013
      @samsonsoturian6013 Před 8 měsíci +22

      Everywhere has natural disasters

    • @PasqualeFA
      @PasqualeFA Před 8 měsíci +27

      This should have been done 40 years ago

    • @samsonsoturian6013
      @samsonsoturian6013 Před 8 měsíci +3

      @PasqualeFA it was just as superfluous back then, and buried cables have always been a thing

    • @Drewhink
      @Drewhink Před 8 měsíci +1

      @@samsonsoturian6013some experience then more often. Florida, Texas, and Louisiana come to mind

    • @jerryg3652
      @jerryg3652 Před 8 měsíci +6

      In Seattle, we have power outage every year when there's a storm or snow. It's kinda ridiculous. I've never faced this problem in Canada where I grew up.

  • @sgtchief
    @sgtchief Před 8 měsíci +347

    Not only does it better protect them from natural disasters (and in some cases causing wildfires) but it's just much more aesthetically appealing not seeing a bunch of power lines and poles littered all over the place.

    • @brodriguez11000
      @brodriguez11000 Před 8 měsíci +18

      The natural enemy of all things buried is the backhoe.

    • @jakobraahauge7299
      @jakobraahauge7299 Před 8 měsíci +23

      I live in Denmark, where they've been dug down. I kinda miss them - the swallows used to sit in them. But the messy ones I saw in NYC weren't exactly charming. It's pretty expensive, but it saves a lot on maintenence, so in the long run it is a sensible investment. I live in the countryside - we've just did all of them in one go

    • @hewhohasnoidentity4377
      @hewhohasnoidentity4377 Před 8 měsíci +8

      ​@@jakobraahauge7299doing it all in one go in Denmark is very different from doing the same in the US.

    • @jakobraahauge7299
      @jakobraahauge7299 Před 8 měsíci +5

      @@hewhohasnoidentity4377 very! But climate here is a lot more calm - and we still did it. I'm. not sure America could do the same - you have some odd solutions to running and funding infrastructure

    • @JanBruunAndersen
      @JanBruunAndersen Před 8 měsíci +1

      ​@@hewhohasnoidentity4377- I know, but USA has had 20-30 years to catch up with Denmark.
      But I get it. Americans are a bit slow.

  • @Av987
    @Av987 Před 8 měsíci +122

    In the Netherlands, only the high voltage transport lines (110-380 kV) are above ground to bridge large distances. These are attached to 60m tall towers, so way above any tree line. After that, all lines are buried underground. Flooding does nothing to insulated underground wires and maintenance cost is next to none, because these wires are not exposed to the elements. I think the last power outage we had was like 5 years ago and that was due to a fire at a transformer station. 6 million to bury a mile of wire underground seems filthy excessive though.

    • @GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket
      @GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Před 8 měsíci +23

      It's California, they don't know how to do things at a reasonable cost, that's why people making six figures can still be homeless there. It's truly insane.

    • @JustinBarkewich
      @JustinBarkewich Před 8 měsíci

      Look up Redwoods…now I don’t know where exactly this is being done but they are some of the biggest in the world some over 90m

    • @RBzee112
      @RBzee112 Před 8 měsíci +4

      The Netherlands is a tiny country compared to the United States.

    • @tallest4eva
      @tallest4eva Před 8 měsíci +34

      ​@@RBzee112That's always the excuse the US gives for infrastructure challenges they can't seem to solve! It was the same excuse they gave for highspeed rail, until China an equally big country came along. The challenges in America are a mixture of greed, NIMBY, Kafkaesque bureaucracy and vested interests stifling change etc.
      The saying goes "The US always does what's right... After they've tried everything else".

    • @Av987
      @Av987 Před 8 měsíci +23

      @@RBzee112 yes, the Netherlands is a tiny country, but we also have a tiny population and a tiny GDP compared to the US. If we can do it here, you can do it there.

  • @MrBezyBez
    @MrBezyBez Před 8 měsíci +21

    $10B divided by the 16m PG&E customers equals $625. If we split that over 10 years to do the upgrades, then it's $62.5 per customer per year or $5.2 per month. So not that much of an increase in customers monthly bills. Especially if instead of evenly splitting the cost they charge per kW used or charge a higher rate to corporations... Maybe get some state funding... Seems like it's worth it

    • @daniil3815
      @daniil3815 Před 8 měsíci +1

      $5 extra per month for 10 years it’s kinda expensive and I prefer not to pay it. Potentially there is no need to bury all the lines.

    • @xavier3098
      @xavier3098 Před 8 měsíci +2

      Seems like people complain for every $1 it does up…

    • @mill2712
      @mill2712 Před 8 měsíci +1

      ​@jinmi7832
      Around 3 percent of the total GDP. Social security is the absolute biggest expense the US has at half I think. I'll look later.

    • @dumbmechanic5215
      @dumbmechanic5215 Před 8 měsíci

      Average customer can expect to see an average increase of $44.26/mo. $3.40 of that is for undergrounding the cables.

    • @mrsleep0000
      @mrsleep0000 Před 8 měsíci

      It's also EXTREMELY stupid to bury the power lines in earthquake country. Get ready for it to takes weeks, possibly months to make repairs to lines after a quake.

  • @dragonuv65
    @dragonuv65 Před 8 měsíci +15

    Not only will this be better for our environment, but it will also be better for people in general walking under power lines. I've seen videos of live power lines falling on people and it's very scary to see.

  • @iali00
    @iali00 Před 8 měsíci +14

    This should’ve been done regardless. It’s horrible seeing all those cables and poles everywhere. In Europe, you never see power lines everywhere like in the USA.

    • @nspro931
      @nspro931 Před 8 měsíci

      All you have to do is go on Google maps to a rural area of Europe, power lines are above ground just like this rural area of California.

    • @zapfanzapfan
      @zapfanzapfan Před 7 měsíci

      Yeah, they are an eye-sore.

  • @mikea5745
    @mikea5745 Před 8 měsíci +27

    People are complaining about the cost of undergrounding lines, but the real wasted expense is a utility having shareholders. Those shareholders take far more money than undergrounding lines

    • @KitwiSauce
      @KitwiSauce Před 8 měsíci +1

      Facts

    • @user-vw6mu8gt6c
      @user-vw6mu8gt6c Před 8 měsíci +4

      It’s private company not non profit organization or government. Blaming shareholder for being greedy is not the solution. Instead creating state owned government body managing utilities is the way

    • @nspro931
      @nspro931 Před 8 měsíci

      @@user-vw6mu8gt6c Yes because no greedy or lazy people work for the state organization

    • @MrC0MPUT3R
      @MrC0MPUT3R Před 8 měsíci

      @@user-vw6mu8gt6c My utility company back where I grew up in rural Pennsylvania was a Co-Op. It was SO much nicer than the for-profit company that supplies my energy here in Denver.

    • @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV
      @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV Před 7 měsíci

      @@user-vw6mu8gt6c Yea, that's exactly what he's suggesting....

  • @trepan4944
    @trepan4944 Před 8 měsíci +16

    If we can pump oil the width of the US and parts of Canada I'm fairly sure we bury some electrical wires in a waterproof line underground.

    • @brodriguez11000
      @brodriguez11000 Před 8 měsíci

      Cost to bury. Cost to dig up and fix. Plus the current climate trend of flooding doesn't help.

    • @miles5600
      @miles5600 Před 8 měsíci

      @@brodriguez11000flooding doesn’t do anything to buried power lines.

    • @johnjingleheimersmith9259
      @johnjingleheimersmith9259 Před 8 měsíci +2

      It's wayyyy more complicated than it sounds. Then you multiply that difficulty by the endless miles needed... pretty nuts. Practical Engineering did a video on it. After you watch that you start to understand why we don't simply just bury all our electric lines.

    • @miles5600
      @miles5600 Před 8 měsíci

      @@johnjingleheimersmith9259 modern technology allows for power lines to be buried like how they’re installing Fiber internet. They drill the lines through the soil and air blow them through. Most western european countries have removed them completely while the most popular city in the US (NYC) still has them everywhere.

    • @johnjingleheimersmith9259
      @johnjingleheimersmith9259 Před 8 měsíci

      @@miles5600 It really isn't the same. Just watch Practical Engineerings video on it. They even have to pump liquid nitrogen into lines to repair them as just one single step.

  • @andrewferrauiolo4618
    @andrewferrauiolo4618 Před 8 měsíci +26

    Yes. All power lines should be underground! They do it in most 55+ communities here in NJ. It can be done and it's proven to work.

    • @jakobraahauge7299
      @jakobraahauge7299 Před 8 měsíci +9

      I live in Denmark, and we just did it in one go. It's been about 20 years, and the investment has paid itself off years ago

    • @miles5600
      @miles5600 Před 8 měsíci +1

      Which communities in NJ?

    • @andrewferrauiolo4618
      @andrewferrauiolo4618 Před 8 měsíci

      @@miles5600 All of the 55+ communities in ocean county

    • @miles5600
      @miles5600 Před 8 měsíci

      @@andrewferrauiolo4618 i still see them everywhere there. Which parts have had them buried (without it being new construction)

    • @sunshineimperials1600
      @sunshineimperials1600 Před 8 měsíci +2

      New Jersey is definitely prone to flooding though, and much of South Jersey has acidic sandy soil that would damage and erode underground wires.

  • @SoraFan23
    @SoraFan23 Před 8 měsíci +4

    Everytime there is a strong storm it always knocks down the power lines because the winds are so strong.

  • @cabayern9416
    @cabayern9416 Před 8 měsíci +2

    Here in Central Europe our power lines are buried.

  • @CesarAnton
    @CesarAnton Před 8 měsíci +31

    This is why public services should be PUBLIC, otherwise we are either stuck with unaffordable services, end up using public money for private profit or both!

    • @nahnahson
      @nahnahson Před 8 měsíci +3

      Ehh... I've seen public utilities run by local gov and the local govs treat it as a piggy bank.

    • @CesarAnton
      @CesarAnton Před 8 měsíci +7

      ​@@nahnahson sometimes, but private companies will ALWAYS use them as a piggy bank. Also public use can be fixed with proper legislation.
      The focus of a public company is providing a service, the focus of a private company is generating profit.
      Sometimes one can have both, public and private offerings, like the health service in Mexico which makes it far superior to the one on the USA. Note: I was born in Mexico but now I live in NYC with health insurance (expensive and almost useless), so I know first hand both systems.

  • @Brosephh
    @Brosephh Před 8 měsíci +11

    I didn't see much power lines in Amsterdam, Netherlands. Not seeing the cables and poles made it feel more organized and aesthetically appealing. I think it's better to clean up and hide the cables, similarly, PC enthusiasts and Data Center infrastructure workers deal with cable management to make the server racks more appealing. It makes sense to do the same with power lines.

    • @kreek22
      @kreek22 Před 8 měsíci

      They said it will cost $800/person in Cali to bury a small percentage of the electric lines. That $800 includes children. We can't do that and also continue to import millions of third worlders every year--and supply wars all over the world.

  • @senzubeanAI
    @senzubeanAI Před 8 měsíci +4

    We've not been doing it any differently in the Netherlands.... all cables are burried beneath roads/ or in pipes

  • @mik3ymomo
    @mik3ymomo Před 8 měsíci +6

    The cost is immense. What would normally cost 10’s of thousands (few spans of overhead) would cost millions to build underground. Also any faults in the future would take much more time and money to repair leaving People out of power for much longer.

    • @sherriianiro747
      @sherriianiro747 Před 7 měsíci +1

      Not really. There is a city near me that paid for total underground wiring in their downtown area over 10 years ago. No regrets, no maintenance problems like before from storms, outages and people hitting poles. They only wish they had done it sooner. Don't forget maintenance caused by bad weather affect your rates also, and they have actually saved money.

    • @mik3ymomo
      @mik3ymomo Před 7 měsíci

      @@sherriianiro747 yes really. I’m an engineer for a major east coast electric and gas provider. I plan, design and build these new transmission and distribution construction projects.

    • @sherriianiro747
      @sherriianiro747 Před 7 měsíci

      @@mik3ymomo In the long run it is actually cheaper.
      That's why more communities are jumping on board we are pushing for it here too but we know there is more money to be made by the power companies with above ground. Our city was the first in the U.S. to install all underground power lines in new developments.
      That was back in the 60's when it started and the movement is back.

    • @mik3ymomo
      @mik3ymomo Před 7 měsíci

      @@sherriianiro747 what do you mean long run? What is your experience? Can you cite the study that supports this?

    • @sherriianiro747
      @sherriianiro747 Před 7 měsíci

      @@mik3ymomo It costs more up front but over time it pays for itself - yes I know the people of the city that did it a decade ago and their electric bills are cheaper. Who do you think pays for it as more and more storms are creating more maintenance and repairs? Our power here goes out over a dozen times a year and we are sick of it, not to mention the lighting strikes to them.
      I know the city that buried them did it overwhelming through a vote and it cost 3.4 million to bury the entire downtown area and I believe they may have had funding too but I can find out.

  • @battlegroundone
    @battlegroundone Před 8 měsíci +5

    bet corporate didn't take a loss, it's always the customer that foots the bill 😢

  • @dfirth224
    @dfirth224 Před 8 měsíci +6

    People are all in favor until they find out how much it will cost and that customers are going to pay for it. Who will people blame and sue when they can't blame the electric company anymore? What about lightning caused fires?

  • @airdiggity
    @airdiggity Před 8 měsíci +3

    I've been asking this question for 30 years. Especially in hurricane or high snow areas.

  • @Ratinevo
    @Ratinevo Před 7 měsíci

    I love these kinds of brief documentaries. I LOVE THEM. This in particular is quite informative to me. Kudos to the team.

  • @nickbono8
    @nickbono8 Před 7 měsíci +3

    In my parents’ area which is fire prone PG&E replaced all the power poles with bigger poles that are wrapped with fire resistant mesh, have heavier duty connectors, and larger insulated wires. Closer to the nearest town, they put everything underground in the fire prone areas. At least they’re doing something finally. Way too long with poor accountability.

  • @Socratic199
    @Socratic199 Před 8 měsíci +21

    Yes! Smarter, still? Municipal grids. Maybe county level and interlinked. Beefs up security and allows for local generation and storage. Less loss from transmition. Increased security, as each grid can act as a bulkhead, against malicious actors. Hacking, etc. Helps sput alternative fuel industry, by incentivizing local production. Ie. Rooftop solar panels or otherwise unused land which could house solar or wind farms. Even battery banking. Acting as emergency power for the county, or transmitting to a neighbor in need. Make it modular and these batteries could be taken to disaster zones. Cutting time to react down to a minimum. Battery systems built into homes and businesses, kicking on if they need it. Or sent to a neighbor. Puts alot of money in people's pockets, while addressing core problems. What do you think?

  • @WhyWorldWet
    @WhyWorldWet Před 8 měsíci +9

    Always have wondered why EVERYTHING isn’t buried. Regardless of cost, it just makes sense. Safety and security is paramount. And reliability too.

    • @kcgunesq
      @kcgunesq Před 8 měsíci +3

      Regardless of cost? So you are willing to pay 3-5x your current electric bill in the next few years to have underground lines? Because if you don't like $300 power bills, you'll love the $1,500 a month power bill.

    • @caesarsalad1170
      @caesarsalad1170 Před 8 měsíci +1

      Because there are tons of factors to consider, soil composition, rock, water table, seismic zones, etc. Diagnosing problems becomes a huge pain as you have to dig it all up just to fix minor problems. Look at where power lines are now in towns/cities/countryside, now picture digging ALL of that up to bury cables, sidewalks, streets, and its not like you could follow the exact route the power lines are currently on either. They also trap heat (obviously), in certain areas that can slow energy transfer and eventually damage cables.

    • @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV
      @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV Před 7 měsíci +1

      And lose that sweet third-world look that overhead power brings?? :)

    • @huskytail
      @huskytail Před 7 měsíci

      @@kcgunesq how did you calculate those prices? 🤔

    • @kcgunesq
      @kcgunesq Před 7 měsíci

      @@huskytail I broke it down more in another comment.

  • @Neckername1
    @Neckername1 Před 8 měsíci +14

    Yes they absolutely should. The main excuse to this point has been maintenance, especially during the winter. However, tools and tech today have really rendered that excuse moot. Plenty of tools and equipment exist to allow shallow cold digging. Boxes and access cabinets exist to help too. Below are some of the benefits of burying power lines
    -out of the way
    -not prone to wind or falling debris
    -more tolerant to ground faults due to insulation
    -less reclosers needed since less uninsulated wire for potential faults
    -zero fire risk
    -protected from lightning**

    • @sherriianiro747
      @sherriianiro747 Před 7 měsíci

      I was told they make more money maintaining the above ground ones, which is why cities have to fight tooth and nail.

  • @r.1599
    @r.1599 Před 8 měsíci +4

    I have wondered for decades why power lines aren't buried. Where I live, power lines both cause fires AND are brought down by winds and snow. It may be expensive to bury them, but that cost is a pittance compared to the financial costs of damages and power outages, not to mention lives lost. Burying them is wise preventative maintenance. Reactive, after-the-fact actions are extremely foolish and expensive. We have brains capable of forethought and foresight for a reason. Let's use them.

    • @sherriianiro747
      @sherriianiro747 Před 7 měsíci

      Exactly. There was a famous football player here that was killed in his car during a storm from a downed power line!

  • @MM-fe9mz
    @MM-fe9mz Před 8 měsíci +32

    It definitely should be a long term goal, focusing first on high risk areas.
    Dumb not burying everything. Leaving poles still means tree maintenance.

    • @oyeahisbest123
      @oyeahisbest123 Před 8 měsíci +3

      comments like this show you have no idea. Most places in the u.s. have clay based soil meaning these would shift and break every few years. I donno about you but i dont see it being plausable for the city to dig up my yard every few years due to the ground shifting

    • @BingusDingusLingus
      @BingusDingusLingus Před 8 měsíci +10

      @@oyeahisbest123your comment shows you don’t know, you can simply include extra slack underground to accommodate for the shifting. Also, if clay soils can’t support underground infrastructure, how are you receiving running water? Bluetooth?😂

    • @oyeahisbest123
      @oyeahisbest123 Před 8 měsíci

      @@BingusDingusLingus They have to replace the pipes every few years and breaks are extremally common ,Infrastructure is in place for them to be easily replaced from the road to help with this issue. Even with extra slack it still dosent help as were we have underground lines (near Arlington texas etc) they are known to brake frequently and they eventually gave up and put up lines.
      It really became a mess with our waterpipes on the last freeze as well....

    • @mrsleep0000
      @mrsleep0000 Před 8 měsíci

      It's dumb to bury power lines in earthquake country...

    • @Mrjonnyjonjon123
      @Mrjonnyjonjon123 Před 7 měsíci

      ​@mrsleep0000 what are you talking about, do you think they are buring them on top of fault lines 💀

  • @ahkoo83
    @ahkoo83 Před 7 měsíci +3

    Great idea!! question, are the same people that can't update our rail roads, bridges, and other major failing/ageing infrastructure going to be in charge of maintaining this? If so, might want to rethink that one, a lot easier to go up then go down and its cheaper. I'm sure all the "highly educated" folks have thought of things like maintenance though, right? 😒

  • @earnmyturns6305
    @earnmyturns6305 Před 8 měsíci +3

    What the videos are showing is undergrounding done as trenching from the top. This makes it really expensive as whatever is on the surface will need to be patched back after the lines are down, and the trenching will have to go around some structures. Why not bore a narrow gage tunnel instead? A smaller version of what the Boring company is doing. These tunnels could go as deep as needed to pass under foundations, water courses, gas lines and so on.
    Also what is the point of leaving up poles to carry the communications cables? I get it they are lower voltage, but much like they often share the same poles with the power lines just put them down in the the same tunnel and help share the cost.

    • @danielstarnes7354
      @danielstarnes7354 Před 8 měsíci

      Building tunnels is significantly more expensive than just digging down then patching the road.

  • @joelcorley3478
    @joelcorley3478 Před 8 měsíci +2

    They're digging deep trenches? And they're cutting through streets to do it? That's crazy expensive. What's wrong with the horizontal drilling tech that the cable companies use for running fiber optic lines?! The horizontal drilling rigs are minimally invasive and relatively cheap to operate. I'm certain they could install several a miles of power lines for a $1M...

  • @daneflanigan
    @daneflanigan Před 8 měsíci +1

    In LA we do not have underground power lines and it is dangerous plus it is an eye sore. In San Diego, they do have buried lines but they also have the highest utility prices in the United States.

  • @thatoneotherotherguy
    @thatoneotherotherguy Před 8 měsíci +3

    Did I just hear this right? An anticipated $44 average increase in monthly customer electric bills? That's really rough, and the poorest most vulnerable users cannot eat increases like that. In my single-family home in Utah, ran by the very efficient Rocky Mountain Power (Pacificorp), eight months out of the year my entire electric bill is around that amount or lower.

    • @CarlosRodriguez-hb3vq
      @CarlosRodriguez-hb3vq Před 8 měsíci

      PacifiCorp is itself owned by Berkshire Hathaway, who produces 14 tons of CO2 per retail customer. PG&E produces 0.5 tons per retail customer. Clean comes at a cost, but so does dirty.

  • @coryhammer9566
    @coryhammer9566 Před 8 měsíci +1

    I’ve been saying for years we should invest in burying lines. In the Houston area we lose power in severe storms many times per year, then requiring workers to repair these lines over and over, which is cost to the utilities that could be saved, not even counting the lost revenue on electricity that would otherwise be consumed. The unreliability forces homeowners to invest in expensive standby generators if they want stable power, not lose food to spoilage and possibly even lives when temperatures are over 100 degrees every day for months and we rely on A/C.

  • @OhioPalmTrees
    @OhioPalmTrees Před 8 měsíci +1

    This is standard building code in my area of ohio that hasnt seen a major storm in over 70 years. We've been wondering when you guys would catch on to this

  • @shaun9156
    @shaun9156 Před 8 měsíci +3

    This has been talked about for years, problem is too much money.. like over 1,000 usd per foot. Also if they are buried, it takes way longer to find faults, and limited voltages compared to overhead lines (because electron stuff).

    • @kcgunesq
      @kcgunesq Před 8 měsíci +1

      Oh, it can be many times more than that. Larger lines can approach or exceed $10,000 a foot. 10x vs overhead is not uncommon.

  • @DC9848
    @DC9848 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Would be also useful to identify the houses located in the end of the line. Lease them solar panels + home battery and cut them off automatically from the grid when the wild fire season starts. Because in the winter there is less risk for wild fires and the grid connection can stay on. By giving customer the low cost lease agreement the investment will be pay itself back and can be used to scale the programme further.

  • @Just_Johnnie
    @Just_Johnnie Před 8 měsíci +1

    Why not decentralizing the power generation? Solar cells, storage batteries, and small local power stations?

  • @ajs11201
    @ajs11201 Před 8 měsíci +9

    This should have been done over a decade ago. Wildfires are not new. Downed power lines are not new. Droughts are not new. The only thing that's new is that PG&E can no longer run from their negligence and they're trying to put a postive spin on long-overdue remediation efforts.

  • @MOBMJ
    @MOBMJ Před 8 měsíci +1

    they have already been doing this in Europe. my mom is French and I go there almost every year to visit family, and always ask myself this question. why not? it would also just be nicer and blend in with the green.

  • @chrisr6456
    @chrisr6456 Před 7 měsíci

    Sounds like a good idea.. But What happens if you need to trouble shoot /repair a line? Ands it cemented... Do you dig it back up?

  • @windriver2363
    @windriver2363 Před 8 měsíci +3

    I love how the video carefully explains how there are costs and benefits of underground power lines, and yet the comment are full armchair engineers screaming "What are you, stupid? Just bury everything."

  • @SparklySpencer
    @SparklySpencer Před 8 měsíci +2

    When I was in middle school, a man ran his car into a power pole, his wife died in the crash, he then headed toward the middle school with a gun, and we were put on lockdown. There are several reasons why updating the grid to something underground may be a good idea, and if the wire were placed in a conduit or tunnel, additional lines, such as fiber optic internet might be installed with more ease, and it may also be a way to route natural gas and/sewer lines as well. Humanity has often placed things underground and sometimes even constructed dwellings. I am gratefully for modern equipment that makes this process easier. It would be prudent to think ahead in my opinion, especially with an infrastructure bill that aims to help curb some of these costs.

    • @Phlegethon
      @Phlegethon Před 8 měsíci +4

      Wouldn’t he have ran into the school with the gun even without the power pole

    • @shaun9156
      @shaun9156 Před 8 měsíci +2

      @@Phlegethon I'm with you on that, op is mental.

  • @venkat4167
    @venkat4167 Před 7 měsíci

    What do you do for maintenance? You dig every time?

  • @XxXenosxX
    @XxXenosxX Před 8 měsíci +3

    For anywhere remotely populated the answer is YES!

    • @16jocko
      @16jocko Před 8 měsíci

      And those remote populations should pay a much larger % of the bill

  • @ab3040
    @ab3040 Před 7 měsíci +1

    For those wondering...
    "Why is it so expensive if we already have tunnels almost everywhere?"
    1) it's dangerous to keep them in the same tunnels
    2) the earths magnetic field messes with the energy transfer, so you need to have special insulating

  • @stevew3978
    @stevew3978 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Some of those consumer advocacy groups fight tooth and nail against any form of rate increase needed for safety improvements. They are almost as culpable as the utilities in causing catastrophes.

  • @dharini09
    @dharini09 Před 7 měsíci

    They already had a huge hike in bills last year. Will it come down eventually? I understand it needs to be done, but it's so expensive for the consumer.

  • @user-pi7ud6ip8d
    @user-pi7ud6ip8d Před 8 měsíci

    Up here in Toronto we had a severe ice storm a few years back. Our block kept power due to underground lines while a block away those with overhead lost power...say no more.

  • @MilesBellas
    @MilesBellas Před 7 měsíci

    Added to fire prevention, aesthetics are important too.
    Vermont looks nice because gaudy signage isn't allowed.

  • @Carnutzjoe
    @Carnutzjoe Před 7 měsíci

    In the gulf south the neighborhoods with buried power lines don’t have nearly the power losses we had before.
    Before it was common for trees and limbs blown down by tornadoes to short the cables and cause outages. Now, not so much.

  • @TubeNutriDoc
    @TubeNutriDoc Před 8 měsíci

    How would the used of solar and wind power generation be impacted by this proposed under grounding of wires?

  • @Vega2099x
    @Vega2099x Před 8 měsíci

    Yeah, I thought that too back in the summer

  • @localnemesis82
    @localnemesis82 Před 8 měsíci

    as long as they remove the $44 tacked on price by 2026 then it would be good. BUT Foothill transit said the same thing with Express lanes. They said the fee would go down after 5 years but after 5 years I'm paying 5x the original rate.

  • @brimmed
    @brimmed Před 8 měsíci +4

    Yikes. I'm an engineer at a competing utility, this is an insane undertaking. This will probably take two decades to finish. I think it would make more sense to actually maintain your powerlines, setup an incentive for people to notify you if there's a serious risk of overgrown brush/etc. Think either of those would be a decent option.

    • @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV
      @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV Před 7 měsíci

      Overhead power lines have a very third-world look tho!
      Nobody wants to see that mess.
      Suburbs with overhead lines look trashy and it lowers the property values compared to suburbs with buried power.
      Plus, the fire/flood safety issues and lower maintenance costs.

    • @brimmed
      @brimmed Před 7 měsíci

      @@EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the areas that caught fire like areas in the boonies? Not exactly the Palisades of Los Angeles. We actually do get complaints like that though. When I was doing service level voltage we'd get requests to get rid of the powerlines cuz it blocked their views. The issue is once they hear the cost, they don't want to fit the bill

    • @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV
      @EveryoneWhoUsesThisTV Před 7 měsíci

      @@brimmed Interesting...
      In most countries the government foots the bill for such infrastructure, so they favour long term savings, aesthetics and safety. The locals would first hear about it when the construction was scheduled.
      But I am thinking of the burbs, if it's out in the country then you probably need lines because of the distances involved.

    • @bltzcstrnx
      @bltzcstrnx Před 7 měsíci

      ​@@EveryoneWhoUsesThisTVnot really sure about the third word and overhead power line. Japan for example has many overhead power lines and other utilities. Just search Japan's overhead power line and there are many pictures of them. The government indeed shows intention to remove them but in the same year they said that, tens of thousands of poles went up.

  • @ChenXin01
    @ChenXin01 Před 8 měsíci +9

    This should have been done years ago. Better now than later, but I hope to see more of these “ambitious” projects.

  • @prajwalpramod3970
    @prajwalpramod3970 Před 8 měsíci +4

    I have a question: isn’t it a lot easier and cheaper to just insulate the wires than bury them underground?

    • @snake10566
      @snake10566 Před 8 měsíci +1

      They talked about that.......

    • @prajwalpramod3970
      @prajwalpramod3970 Před 8 měsíci

      @@snake10566 Oh, I must have missed it. Can you give me the video timestamp for when they discuss this?

    • @d.b.1176
      @d.b.1176 Před 8 měsíci

      @@prajwalpramod3970 Be an adult and watch the video.

    • @Ivan-kb2si
      @Ivan-kb2si Před 8 měsíci

      Insulated conductors is about 65% effective in preventing fires, if a tree falls on the line it will still arc.

  • @sku32956
    @sku32956 Před 7 měsíci

    Just living in a subdivision with buried power lines with other utilities ,we usually only lost power form other issues we do not lose power when a wind storm ,ice storm hit we still have power while the older areas lose power .

  • @paulmaxwell8851
    @paulmaxwell8851 Před 7 měsíci

    Quite a number of commenters below seem to think that a) cables 'rot', or b) soil shifts or c) water is an issue. None of these are true. We've been burying lines for years and years without trouble. On my farm we buried all lines, over a large area, from building to building. It makes us incredibly resistant to windstorms and wildfire. Yes, it was a lot of work. But maintenance costs are zero. Remember, before you start claiming that something cannot be done, look around. Odds are it IS being done, regularly, somewhere else.

  • @cynthiaaiken2424
    @cynthiaaiken2424 Před 7 měsíci

    Did they test to see if the electromagnetic effect of the wires is bothering the roots or Microbiome of the soil?

  • @michaeldgab999
    @michaeldgab999 Před 8 měsíci +3

    Fail to prepare.
    Prepare to fail.

  • @Jehayland
    @Jehayland Před 8 měsíci +2

    Burying power lines is the way to go. The risks associated with wild fires are too great. People’s lives and homes are on the line. This isn’t the area to skimp.

  • @EVtripper
    @EVtripper Před 8 měsíci +4

    PG&Evil is great... at making their customers pay for their mistakes.

    • @miles5600
      @miles5600 Před 8 měsíci +3

      i don't get why we don't massively invest into undergrounding power lines at the federal level. why ask a company to invest into this and charge their customers more when the white house could request much more and divide the costs over much more people?

    • @CarlosRodriguez-hb3vq
      @CarlosRodriguez-hb3vq Před 8 měsíci

      If you’re saying that PG&E caused global climate change, then okay historically. But today they distribute some of the cleanest power in the country.

    • @EVtripper
      @EVtripper Před 7 měsíci

      Because people vote for the 2 corporate parties, so we get laws that benefit corporations? It's almost like lobby groups killed democracy, yet we still refer to it as democracy. @@miles5600

  • @denkeylee
    @denkeylee Před 3 měsíci

    I like how they don't tell you the disadvantages of having a buried line.

  • @darinherrick9224
    @darinherrick9224 Před 8 měsíci +2

    It costs money. Which utilities dont want to pay. No problem. Nationalize power utilities.

  • @auro1986
    @auro1986 Před 8 měsíci

    shouldn't you start supplying electricity wirelessly?

  • @JStorm13
    @JStorm13 Před 7 měsíci

    My city did it about 15 years ago (pop about 12k) amd through a few major storms, we have never lost power. They have said we came close, but never have lost power.

  • @0741921
    @0741921 Před 8 měsíci +1

    The US will always looking at saving a few bucks which ironically always ends uo costing a lot more later on smh

  • @Thatoneguywhosucksatlife.
    @Thatoneguywhosucksatlife. Před 8 měsíci

    I suggest that when repair is needed that the repair be moved underground so over time we keep the budget at minimum and accomplish our goal

  • @Phlegethon
    @Phlegethon Před 8 měsíci

    I always thought it was weird the lines were above ground

  • @piccalillipit9211
    @piccalillipit9211 Před 8 měsíci +1

    *IN MY EU COUNTRY* the vast majority are buried. No fires, looks nicer, lower EMI
    You take it for granted until you see the tram lines and think how ugly they look. Then you realise that everywhere in my home country of the UK is strewn with power lines.

  • @freeflowtrader
    @freeflowtrader Před 8 měsíci +1

    They should of do that long time ago. Not just wildfire, also storm and strong winds. Ensuring electricity running is essential while in natural disaster

  • @Trentacus
    @Trentacus Před 8 měsíci

    So expensive moving overhead to underground. Especially oil static lines.

  • @Eduardo-cr8ri
    @Eduardo-cr8ri Před 8 měsíci

    Utilities will go up, but will a safer grid lower insurance rates?

  • @danielstarnes7354
    @danielstarnes7354 Před 8 měsíci +2

    Consumers will always balk at cost increases, and will cry poor when the bill comes. However they should look at burying lines as an investment, not an expense. Almost anyone who can afford to live in California, can adapt to higher power bills. The droughts and high winds are not going away anytime soon.

    • @Bakapooru
      @Bakapooru Před 8 měsíci

      Well... these capital improvements also comes with a guaranteed return on investment (profit) for PG&E. The more they do, the more profit for them.

    • @richdobbs6595
      @richdobbs6595 Před 8 měsíci

      The people paying for this are the urban poor. The people benefiting from this the most are the wealthy with second homes in remote mountain communities.

  • @UpUpDnDnLtRtLtRtBAStart
    @UpUpDnDnLtRtLtRtBAStart Před 8 měsíci +2

    - Overhead lines should be insulated
    - Underground lines where possible
    - Poles need to be outfitted with auto-shut off mech so if one segment falls or snaps, that segment is cut off.
    I know I'm speaking straight forward but this isn't rocket science.

    • @mitchellinoakland
      @mitchellinoakland Před 8 měsíci

      @Steve-wz6ef writes, "Poles need to be outfitted with auto-shut off mech so if one segment falls or snaps, that segment is cut off."
      Shutting off a segment after it falls or snaps is likely too late.

  • @samogen300
    @samogen300 Před 8 měsíci +1

    DER, I live in a hurricane zone, burying power lines is an obvious advantage.

  • @skyscraperfan
    @skyscraperfan Před 8 měsíci +2

    Living costs in the US are very high, but electricity is still very cheap. Those 23 cents average per kWh make Germans jealous.

  • @basementcat5618
    @basementcat5618 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Electricity costs in these areas is going to spike if they have to bury all the power lines. But I suppose it is better than the fires.

  • @maninredhelm
    @maninredhelm Před 7 měsíci

    Line Roald was born to advocate for the placement of lines below roads.

  • @ronblack7870
    @ronblack7870 Před 7 měsíci

    they don't mention that insulated lines have higher energy losses vs bare lines. this is because of capacitive effects which go up when you put insulation on the lines. a capacitor is a conductor with insulation .

  • @montybrown5410
    @montybrown5410 Před 7 měsíci

    Burying power lines would absolutely protect them better. But I'm also pretty sure that simple, regular maintenance would also prevent the majority of accidents.

  • @adammiller6606
    @adammiller6606 Před 8 měsíci

    More sub stations. To improve distribution on the grid. Balancing the load.

  • @Itsmarkyoung
    @Itsmarkyoung Před 8 měsíci +1

    Opponents always say it’s too expensive, but the many billions of dollars spent on wild fire recovery each year is reason enough to prevent them in the first place.

    • @johntippin
      @johntippin Před 7 měsíci

      Maybe in your state

    • @Itsmarkyoung
      @Itsmarkyoung Před 7 měsíci

      @@johntippin In California, so yes, very much so haha we have some of the worst if not the worst wild fires in the nation, would definitely benefit putting the cables underground.

  • @malcolmtuck9000
    @malcolmtuck9000 Před 8 měsíci

    I know its the cost, but I don't see why don't they bury the secondary lines with the primary lines as well. As secondary's feed homes and street lights. Just seems like they are going half way.

  • @MassDynamic
    @MassDynamic Před 7 měsíci

    perhaps it would be cheaper to setup micro-grids in remote towns instead of building a long power line from plant to where it's needed? for the people that live out in the middle of nowhere, it doesnt make sense to set up powerlines...

  • @sto2779
    @sto2779 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Since america kept it simple and made electrical lines all outdoors, it's better to stick with it because it works and is able to quickly repair it. Instead of making it more burden of black outs, boosting electricity prices and traffic jams, it would be logical to think other ways to combat wild fires. Using AI/ML would be the solution. Just hook up a bunch of cameras train a powerful AI/ML model and when weather conditions are bad and trees flying all over the place simply have AI to turn off power and call egineers/technicians to visit the spot. This could work for a long time and at the same time electricity companies can then slowly and economically make underground lines.

  • @Lazy2332
    @Lazy2332 Před 7 měsíci

    The fastest mitigation solution would be installing smart grid technology with automated smart switches. These smart switches automatically turn off power instantly unlike most old fuses. Most of these old fuses won’t blow quickly because the utility gets tired of replacing the fuses every time it blows so they install a much larger one that then burns and burns and burns when a line is struck. The smart switches that FPL uses are set to prevent any sort of fires and requires a technician to go out and verify that the line is clear after the grid attempted to restore it 2-3 times. Each attempt is very short so that it does NOT cause ignition. Why isn’t PG&E using this system?

  • @MissMeganBeckett
    @MissMeganBeckett Před 7 měsíci

    When installing new power infrastructure it makes sense to install underground lines because they are more likely to last longer and need less attention and maintenance because they won’t be damaged by high winds and ice storms.

  • @soloyoni2000
    @soloyoni2000 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Underground power line is also bad when it’s flooding!

  • @waverly2468
    @waverly2468 Před 8 měsíci

    Burying lines that carry 300,000 volts comes with many problems. The lines get warm and will expand with heat. It's hard to make repairs. You have to insulate the lines and keep them away from each other. At that high voltage even the air can conduct electricity.

    • @vlaardingerrr
      @vlaardingerrr Před 8 měsíci

      Here in the Netherlands we have multiple 360kv lines buried underground. Yes the upfront cost are higher but near a city nobody wants to live next to it.

  • @lunax71
    @lunax71 Před 8 měsíci +1

    Yes

  • @yuribudnyatsky3450
    @yuribudnyatsky3450 Před 7 měsíci

    I came here in 1988 from former USSR. Was shocked to see all those poles (often leaning) with power lines web hanging all over. Did not even know it was possible.

  • @MrIhatethisone
    @MrIhatethisone Před 7 měsíci +1

    i love how the 45$ monthly increase only 3$ is for the underground stuff. the rest to the for profit company

  • @kbwelker
    @kbwelker Před 7 měsíci

    Absolutely!

  • @CD_RN_Independent_Voter
    @CD_RN_Independent_Voter Před 8 měsíci

    Let’s do it!👍🏻💡

  • @douglachman7330
    @douglachman7330 Před 8 měsíci

    They are called insulated twisted bundled power lines. Short term expense for a long time cost saving.

  • @garettdoornwaard4822
    @garettdoornwaard4822 Před 7 měsíci

    We have overhead lines in Canada too but in Europe they are so uncommon that they equate ours with "wild west" or "steam train" esthetics

  • @OscarShu
    @OscarShu Před 8 měsíci

    we need this in California now !

  • @rory-red
    @rory-red Před 8 měsíci

    Dallas Tx does