Scandi Shootout: ESEE Camp-Lore vs ENZO vs Entrek USA
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- The long awaited ESEE Camp-Lore ESEE RB3 is here. After two months on the market (as of the date of this video). We test it against to other scandi knives from top companies.
Facts & Content
Photos
Some photos are Creative Commons
3.0 Public Domain
The three (3) pictures during these rolling credits are:
1st. Citadel Walls, Canon of the Grand, Utah, ca. 1900
2nd. Echo Cliffs, Grand River Canon, Colorado, ca. 1900
3rd. Mission San Juan Capistrano, California, ca. 1899
Music:
Song for chopping:
"Deep Haze" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed by Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
Bought from Amazon MP3 by sweetcostarica online.
Song for tent Pegs
None
Song for One Stick Fire making:
Lose Yourself (Originally Performed By Eminem)
Artist: Remix Radio DJ.
Album Title: You Better Lose Yourself.
Bought from Amazon MP3 by sweetcostarica online.
Closing Song - For A Few Dollars More (Theme) by Hugo Montenegro Orchestra.
Album Title: The The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly. Bought from Amazon MP3 by sweetcostarica online.
Awesome review! Glad to see you're back in action. I've always like the look of the Enzo Trapper! Before I bought my first Scandi bushcrafter I had it narrowed down to the Enzo and the Spyderco Buscrafter in O1. Ultimately I went with the Spyderco and have been very happy. I've never batoned with it but I did make some utensils out of hard dry Oak and didn't have any problems with chipping or rolling. I did need to strop it for a bit to bring back the hair popping edge though. I'm in the process of putting a mirror polish on it which I intend to force a patina on to prevent rust. Thanks for the video, informative as always. A little surprised at Esee.
Always a pleasure to see your reviews! I'm fond of the scandi grind knives. Maybe a little history and discussion about the advantages of the puukko style knives in a future video?
Hands down, the best comparison video of knives I've ever seen. Excellent job brother!
+mister smith Thanks, you encourage me to do more.
Happy Easter.
A practical and intuitive video without the BS . Well done
Very good review. It's ashamed that the Camp Lore doesn't hold up. A cheap Mora could hold up to most of those tasks better.
Revealing, surprising results! I knew heat treat in Entrek is phenomenal! Would be my choice if the three as well. Thank you for excellent review.
Nice work! Awesome tests! I was thinking that if you showed the same tests after the knives had been sharpened a few times the results might be different and interesting. Sometimes the factory edges, for a few reasons, don't give you an accurate accounting of how the knife perfoms, I have found, and it takes 2 or 3 sharpenings to really see what the knife can do. Good work, take care, and great to see new videos!
Thanks for taking the time to do this and share it.
Your back! I've missed your vids a lot. Love your reviews
Great review! I have an ESEE 5, my wife, an ESEE Laser Strike. Glad I saw this. I'm looking for a bushcraft knife, but I won't be buying an ESEE. Mora was my first choice, but now I'll reconsider. Thanks
The Esee 5 is completly different breed of knife. You can baton in through almost anything with worries. I wouldn't take this review as a negative on all Esee blades because most of them perform at the uppet end of the spectrum of quality. This specific release how might need a little more R & D on Esse's part. Rowen 1095 is tough stuff when the edge geometry is ideal. I have a Junglas and I beat on it regularly with no issues.
+Anthony Tramontana
Thank you for the input. I love my ESEE. You're right, the 5 is a tough cookie. I broke a Gerber LMF 2 when batonning with it. You get what you pay for. Despite the weight, I have a knife that my life can depend on.
As for the bushcraft knife, I've been wanting a mora. Sweet Costa Rica has good skills, the video shows it being done correctly, so I trust his review. But to your credit, I would probably be the wiser to do some more research. Thanks.
You can't go wrong with Mora for 15 to 20 bucks :0) get 2
I do not baton my knives; but I like to watch reviews of people batoning theirs -- somedy has said it here. I agree and, for test purposes I feel that the baton test is a valid one. Thanks for the video.. My Enzo knives (fixed blades and folders as well) are tops!
Wow that's sad, a $100 knife should be able to handle a tiny bit of cross grain notching....Heck I've been doing that to my Mora Pro for over a month now and it's sharp as day 1. Ive stropped it just out of habit but honestly it doesn't need it. These expensive knives are cool looking and I would love to own one, I'm very new to bushcrafting and only have about 5 months or so under my belt. I have went through a learning fase with grinds and am now a complete fan of Mora knives and scandi grinds. A 15$ Mora Robust Pro has made me a believer I look forward to getting more LOL esp the new full tang Mora.
Yes, a lot of times manufacturers charge high prices of average or below average performing knives. Moras are great preforming knives for low prices. A lot of guys on CZcams get free knives or run businesses that sell those knives therefore they are bias.
Anyway, stay safe and enjoy your hobby.
I was excited when the Esee RB3 was finally released and I mean finally. I placed my order right away my excitement was short lived when I received the warning that came with it. I have beat the crap out of my $20 rat tang Mora with little to few problems. My $100 full tang Esee however looks and feels good but I don't trust it like I wanted too. When the manufacture doesn't trust it for more than for carving I was disappointed.
+DamionJR4923 Yes, I feel almost the same as you do. If I knew that warning was included with the ESEE RB3 I would not have ordered it. If fact I bought two (2) of them and sent the other back for a refund.
This knife can be fixed by several ways (if the heat treating is OK) but why would I buy a 100 dollar knife to do reprofiling on to fix? Crazy.
Take care and get an ENZO or Entrek or similar (IMO)
Rowen usually does a good job with there heat treat. What would you recommend to fix it. My wife won't let me get another $100 until my birthday or Christmas.
I bought a custom kydex to go with it some I feel I'm $135 into the RB3 now. I thought Reuben Borlieu was real hard on his gear so I thought I had my go to knife for almost everything and the warranty on top of it. I'm just disappointed.
DamionJR4923 The fix:
1. The easiest way to toughen up the edge is to convex the edge with sandpaper & phone book.
2. The best & is much more work; is to slightly widen the edge bevels with water stones.
God Bless.
I wish I had seen this a couple of weeks ago. I have wanted to try a scandi blade and settled on the ESEE. I've got a couple other ESEE knives and I was impressed by the scales on it. I was surprised at the thin blade. Although I consider batoning as a last resort, something you do is you don't have a hatchet, I wouldn't think that batoning was something that this knife couldn't handle without damaging it. I use a fixed blade knife for general chores in camp, cutting rope, making firesticks and some food prep, and the ESEE should work fine for me, I am a little disappointed. I have a general rule of thumb of only batoning sticks that are not larger in diameter than the height of the blade, so maybe it will work out for me. Maybe having the blade reground will be an option. We'll see.
+Knot DeWildeman I wanted to get this review out before Christmas but got busy with the holiday tasks. You know how that is.
The ESEE Test:
I only baton my knives for testing. So in this video I was pushing the blades. The last thing you want to do if you only had a knife in survival is to baton with it, right. But if you had a stock ESEE Camp-Lore RB3 it would dent and/or bend on you. It is embarrassing that a $15 dollar Mora did better that a $100 dollar ESEE. Even the new not yet released full-tang Mora Garberg knife would do better.
Here is the best video on batoning. Is it really necessary?:
czcams.com/video/pg1N46gYPH0/video.html
Excellent demo and review thanks for sharing...
Entrek says they will repair or replace the knife at their option and only to the original owner. This means they have the option to refuse repair and if you're not the original owner they won't do it. Esee doesn't have options and they will replace it no matter who the owner is.
I would not worry about that. I am sure both companies will "repair or replace" your knife/knives with no questions asked.
*Stay frosty.*
I liked, nice video. I think the same about the esee. I think the enzo (trapper or camper) any enzo is going to be better. For performance and price for what you paid. Better steel, better sheath, finished, materials, performance, etc. The Entrek, is good, but in wet condition is not safe (the handle shape, I tested), the sheath is garbage for the price. Thanks for the video.
Great comment. ENZO knives cost 10 or 20 dollars more than the ESEE Camp-Lore RB3 but as you stated, they are much more refined in *every way.* The Entrek for me (XL sized hands) was really easy to use and preformed well but I'll have to try it in the wet. Thanks for the heads up on that possible problem.
I think ESEE is just trying to get more of the bushcraft pie with these purpose built Camp-lore knives. That is fine and kind of exciting BUT they failed by designing such a mediocre knife. ESEE's regular knife line is really good though.
Stay frosty.
Enjoyed the video. Keep up the hard work. Be blessed
Great review!! Thank you!!
Do the other knives have a true Scandinavian edge or do they have a modified scandi with a secondary bevel? if they have the secondary bevel, that means they held up to the batoning better because they had a more obtuse angle than the true scandi on the Esee
Good test! Thanks for sharing!
+Bob Wampler Thank you too for the nice encouragement.
Have a great weekend!
Thank you for share! Nice video
There's a reason I don't own Esee knives. They keep their steel way to soft so it won't break and they don't have to replace them. Both Entrek and Enzo I do use. Funny that all three brands start with an E.
I own probably a dozen moras, including their bushcraft models, and I have to say I was surprised to see that esee roll so easily, considering the moras I have fare much better. that said, I think the backcountry world or bushcrafters as many prefer to be called have fallen head over heels for some reason over a grind that in all honesty is fairly limiting and inherently fragile. it bites a bit better into wood, but after buying and using a couple of normal Esees, I can't imagine a better all around grind for the majority of field work than that of a full flat grind. keep a small scandi in the pack for small camp work, but for a better all around camp experience, a medium sized full flat grind blade is kind of a no brainer I think.
One word for the ESEE Camp-Lore RB3: disappointing
It can be fixed but for $100 USD WHY waste more money on it?
You are correct about the normal ESEEs for many places in the World. But in the Arctic and for bushcrafters that make a lot of their gear from nature the scandi grind knife is king. Moras, especially the newest models are fantastic in the all round role.
Stay frosty.
You sure make some fine videos. Liked!
liked! great video thanks for sharing with us the results
+GRIFF My pleasure GRIFF.
Have a great 2016.
I don't baton my knives at all - I think its a bad idea - BUT I do like watching other people on youtube do it for test purposes.
Why couldn't the ESEE handle a task that even a Mora can (apparently) do? The delicate ESEE performance did not correlate with the amount of steel put into that robust full-tang knife design. ESEE clearly knows this problem exists based on the warning label in the box... so if the knife edge is so delicate, and geared toward fine work, why not make it a stick tang and save weight / cost?
Illogical design. Too bad.
entitled millennial because people like full tangs in this genre of knives. Also I got to fondle an RB 3 recently and I love how to handle feels. "Better" than any Mora.
Good video. Very informative. What did I learn? It's hard to beat a Mora.
+fdjd28 That is right. For:
- Price
- Performance
- tough enough handles (never broke mine)
- lighter in weight
- easy replacement
- shareable (who would temporarily give their $200 USD + big name knife to someone in camp for use?)
Thanks fdid28 for your comment.
Where did you get you ENZO Trapper? btw I would recommend for tests making a Trystick. Oh and thats spruCe
+AlaskanFrontier1 Hi AF1, that Enzo was bought about three (3) years ago and the sheath has changed to more "form" fitting. I do not think ENZO Company sells the older, square sheaths anymore.
Oh, I bought that ENZO Trapper off of eBay 3 yrs ago.
Trystick will do. Thanks.
sweetcostarica
Okay, I was just wondering, because ENZO Trappers are impossible to find, I have been wanting to review one for a year and hadn't seen any on many knife websites.
AlaskanFrontier1 If you want my spare wooden scales & D2 blade ENZO Trapper that is exactly the same as the on in this video I'll sent it to you for $70 USD (it is new never used just 3 yds old).
sweetcostarica
is it just like the one in this vid?
AlaskanFrontier1 No, it is the better one with slightly nicer wood grain. It is the safe queen. Besides that it is an exact look alike.
Great review.. what state you in?
good video lots of info about these knives, but I was hoping to see the Mora garberg tested as a comparison in this price range, hope to see more tests on scandi style knives in a future video, keep going, great work.
You folded an edge on a scandi knife by crossgrain chopping with a 3.5" blade and a mallet... People have responded by saying they won't buy it because of this review. Why would anyone EVER crossgrain chop with an ESEE RB? For a youtube review, I imagine is about it. You carry a small scandi bushcraft knife for fine carving and food work, you have an axe and or a saw for the hard work.
+MrWIbackpacker You are kind of correct on why you use scandi knives but you have completely miss understood my video:
- This it a comparison of knives and their scandi blades
- This is a TEST video i.e. do not do cross grain cutting with a knife in normal situations.
- If a person buys another knife like the Entrek or a Mora based on the weak edge of the ESEE RB3 shown in this video, that is a good thing (IMO) and what this video is about.
You said: "You carry a small scandi bushcraft knife for fine carving and food work".
Sorry, scandis are good with food. A non-scandi is much better for food. Trust me on this one.
Also, scandi edge bevels excel at splitting wood not just fine wood work. Look at the Mora Pathfinder and the longer scandi knives.
But thanks for you comment. Have a great day.
+MrWIbackpacker The other knives shown have a scandi grind as well and seem to have held up just fine. I'd say it is a case of having too acute of an angle. Had esse bumped it up a degree or two on each side then it would have likely been more durable.
As for cross grain cutting or chopping, rather in this case the use of a baton; one might do so when making notches. Which is well with in the realm of woodworking or bushcrafting.
Notching would be done by hand, not with a mallet.
I didn't misunderstand. A person carrying a scandi knife would have another tool more appropriate for a task like crossgrain chopping, or even battoning. I don't use my japanese chefs knife to cut acorn squash for the same reason. A true scandi knife is delicate, but it is meant to be used pretty delicately. In scandinavia you would have an axe for sure, no "bush crafter" with any savvy would just carry a 3.5" scandi knife. I don't want to try and carry a cross for esee, I'd much rather pay $20 for a Mora that is just as capable, but you can't mistreat a tool and say it's the tools fault it malfunctioned.
I get what you are saying but there is a large faction of people out there who buy into the one tool option way of thinking and thus many makers use a more obtuse edge on a scandi to avoid such failure. I just find it odd that having the reputation for durability that they do, esse did not fallow that same path.
I too prefer the right tool for the right job and carry a fixed blade, folder, folding saw and a hatchet when I go for an overnighter or an ax for longer trips.
Since you brought up mora, I have tested my mora blades with about the same amount of abuse with less rolling, sometimes none, which was my only point as they have an ever so slightly more obtuse angle. I believe that I read on the esse forum that the RB3 is at 10 degrees DPS. For me that makes it have to narrow of a spectrum to be of much use.
Dwight Kalezra Nice comment Dwight!
You said: "...a large faction of people out there who buy into the one tool option way of thinking..."
I believe this is why a lot of knife makers put full tangs on many knives that don't need it and this just adds unnecessary weight and expense to the tool.
My tests are not so much as an one tool option but for the emergency. That is to have a good knife for the lost or breakage of an important wood working tool. This knife should be a backup to the other tools and preform at least up to their price tag.
For $100 USD you should have a better knife than the $15 USD dollar Mora. In may tests (especially one very tough batoning test) the Mora easily beat the ESEE Camp-Lore RB3.
MrWIbackpacker said: "A true scandi knife is delicate, but it is meant to be used pretty delicately."
This is true and not true. As you said it depends on the edge bevels & the purpose of that particular knife. I beat up my nonfull-tang Moras & Marttiinis (sometimes) with no issues and no handle loosening. Their scandi edges hold up well. But the ESEE's edge failed so it is an expensive, overrated caving/whittling knife IMO. Not a tough main knife for the hike or the camp.
Stay frosty.
Wow, surprised the ESEE rolled over so easily. Nice comparison.
Yes, ESEE's first effort into the scandi world is rocky. They will learn.
I agree the ESEE Camp-Lore RB3 is not ready but all the other ESEE are top notch knives and can handle anything in its path. Great testing my friend!
I mis the mora garberg in this test
👍🏻great vid ✌🏻️
10° per side for batoning seasoned and square wood is pushing it. I have an LT Wright GNS which I reprofiled to 9-10° per side and naturally it was a bit fragile afterwards and so it chipped and rolled. I added into it a 2-3° per side nano bevel and it's now far stronger and still one of the sharpest I own. A durable knife that cuts wood like a laser.
"True scandi" grinds do have nano bevels on them but they aren't a secondary edge by any definition and the inclusive degrees are still quite low and thus very sharp. In the real word zero scandi grinds at 20° or so don't last long and the only way to maintain them as zero scandi is with stones.
With scandi grinds of around 20° and with a nano bevel (to make up the difference in ° ) you can maintain the sharpness with full bevel stropping for many months without ever touching a water stone.
The knife works just as well as a "true zero grind" but it lasts far longer. Finnish Puukkos aren't scandi, let alone "true scandi", they are almost and practically flat grinds with nano bevels. Same deal.
There's much garbage info out there and people keep believing it.
Wow! The Esee is pretty disappointing. I'm an Esee fan, but apparently their first attempt at a scandi grind needs a bit of refinement. Funny thing is that they give you that "no batoning" message, but Patrick Rollins batons with it in the Rb3 introduction video. 🤔
How did you like the handles, with an without gloves? Did you notice any significant difference?
+Yehoshua Jason D. Stone Sorry for such a late reply Yehoshua. The handle in my XL (maybe XXL) hands felt fine with the ESEE RB3 but a little odd. The oddness is hard to explain so I'll just say the handle felt fine.
The ENZO wooden handle was more comfortable even though it is a little blocky.
The Entrek's round handle felt good (not the best feel but good). Entrek's handle was a better one for camping/hiking in that it's roundness made it easy to use with different hand holds for bushcraft techniques.
Stay safe.
+sweetcostarica Oh and as you asked, the above "handle critique" is use *without* gloves.
+sweetcostarica Thank you!
Camp lore mmm ?? No heavy work with it. Its a nice knive the outher knives are better you were useing.good infor..
I would never use a folder to Baton!
Try to Baton her in Germany a Deutsche Eiche, Buche or a Hasel!!
Folder to baton? Only for *_testing or emergencies._*
God bless brother.
Very interesting test. I think that the Entrek is made from 440C, the Esse is made from 1095, and the Enzo could be made from anything--they use a lot of different steels. That could be the cause of the rolling on the Esse RB-3. I have a PR-4 and an Esse 4HM and have not noticed any edge rolling on either. I have shyed away from 1095 on smaller knives and in the 4-5" range I have knives in 440C, 01, 5160, 52100,14CR28 and a few other steels. I have not noticed ANY edge rolling on any of them like your 1095 RB-3. I do have some larger knives in 1095 and think they perform better than your RB-3. YMMV!!!
Enzo uses O1 and N690Co for the trapper line I believe. I could be wrong, but it's the two I've been looking at that are in that one
An interesting review! I watched a man build a camp with a hunting tower. He used his knife, saw and hatchet. I don't believe, I observed him using your technique for chipping wood. He was in the bush and did not have any 2by4's with him? Two of the knife companies had literature with their products, stating not to do, what you did in the video? Striking their products with a mallet? I disagree with you in this sense, there is no knife that will do all the jobs, you want to. I also have to ask, how much do you spend on a bushcraft knife that does everything, $100, $200, $500? Try to buy a knife from a renowned knife maker?
Shouldn't baton in enough leave that job for a hatchet
100 percent correct 👌. We are just testing the knives in the video.
That's not "quite a difference at all". You didn't read the whole note from Esee. Just the part you wanted to to make it appear that Esee would honor their warranty if the knife was battoned. Their note was to warn people that batoning may cause the edge to roll not that it would void the warranty like you're insinuate.
Step 1: read warning that clearly states do not baton.... Step 2: batons wood.... My advice: quit using knives outside of their intended purpose and use the right tool for the job....
James Harris he should have done the baton test after feather sticking, peg making etc. also should have batoned with the grain instead of cross grain.
Not quite a difference. ESEE will replace all
of the knives they make, no questions asked. If they don’t feel comfortable doing that w a design, they don’t make it.
Ha.. i bent my Esee 5,,and they wont replce it..
Screw Esee knives..!
They got angry with me, cause i was sharing it with Esee knives on Facebook, Mike told me to send it and i did, he the sent it back as is, and tryed to bill me 145 $ shipping. I had to go to my lawyer, fuck em..
***** Split frosen log in -30
selling it on german esee page on FB..
Nice work, but you might want to start with the fine work first.
+Cliff Stamp Yes, found that out the hard way. I *will* take your advice in future cliff for sure.
Learned a lot about scandi edge bevels from this rest. Its also was interesting to try 440C (cryogenically treated). It is great and stays sharp five (5) times longer than O1 carbon steel I'm told. But I need to see how easy or difficult it is to sharpen.
Stay safe.
+Hmmer Pimy Hey Hmmer Pimy please note that others have had their ESEE RB3's edge become damage in batoning work on the 1st try.
I'm sure the edge bevels are too narrow for a real bushcrafting or HD camp knife.
+Hmmer Pimy There are a few possibilities. It could have a slight hollow, it could be over heated, or it could be simply too low an angle for the work. Sharpen it a few times, repeat the work and see what happens.
Cliff Stamp
I got one recently and checked it and the bevels are around 17- 18°ps and it is indeed slightly hollow.
Feels like a great knife but only time will tell.
You're cheating, lol.
Bullshit!