More important than Brand is How you treat the battery. So if you run it down to 9% or so all the time, it’s going to PUFF. If you fully charge it and let it sit for weeks or months, it’s going to PUFF. If you run it down, Fast Charge it and run it again and again, it’s going to PUFF. Also, if you treat it right but you have hundreds of flights on it, it’s probably going to eventually puff. But you got your money’s worth out of it. Also, I’ve said it before and you said it here, I sometimes might pay a little more for a battery but maybe I wanted my connector and not have to solder or I wanted to get to a website’s threshold for a discount. In the end it’s an informed decision. Great video!
8:35 Btw the mah rating does not make a battery better it just last longer,the C rating is what give you that punch/that snappy feeling of acceleration
I wasn't suggesting MAH makes it a better battery, I was suggesting C rating made it a better battery as for a given capacity in MAH a higher C rating will allow for higher sustainable current. 8:23 "I gave a negative adjustment because it's a 10c improvement over the target" C rating doesn't have anything to do with "punch" That's voltage. Voltage is the motive force/pressure behind current. The C rating simply indicates the sustainable amperage. So a 20c2200 is good for 44a where a 40c2200 is good for 88a without damaging the pack. The only concession I make to C rating on "punch" is that higher C rating packs hold higher average voltage longer than lower C ratings. AMP draw is not a function of the battery, it's a function of load.
@@OpenthrottlercGet schooled(LMAO this man right here talking about "Get schooled") Packs don't "push" power, but unfortunately a higher C pack will provide more punch even if you are not drawing near its full potential. With all the marketing hype, its hard to state hard numbers, but C rating is supposed to mean how much continuous current the pack can deliver without going below 6 volts
thank you for your approach i have been reading everything for a month to get the best p/p balance for my money and i never seemed to find any firm conclusions.
@@RCVideoReviews yes, but don't have any data on because I don't buy that many batteries as I run nitro as well. It's like with anything thats made in batches, some batches are better than others.
I'm not sure what you mean by "strongest battery" but it's only a 10w charger and it's for NiMH, so don't charge Lipos with it. Not much power in that one.
@@Tintoycar Think of MAH as a gas tank. MAH refers to the amount of energy you can store. Chargers don't really know or care about MAH. Charging time is influenced by the MAH itself. More MAH = more charge time required if the amperage is held constant and it will be in your case because of the low power rating of 10w on that charger. The charging rate on that device is low at 10w. A 12v device like a 3s LIPO battery will charge at 0.8a. If you charge a 2200mah battery, that represents about 1/3c, which means it will take over 1 hour to charge a 2200mah battery.
@@RCVideoReviews I'm starting to get it ;-) Now it takes 2 hours to charge NiMH 2000 mAh, so i can use my little charger to charge a 4000 mAh battery but it will take much longer. I've got an old charger somewhere that's 20 years old for my 2001 Subaru Impreza. Maybe it will be of use. I understand that NiMH is for beginners ;-)
@@Tintoycar NiMH isn't for beginners, it's the chemistry we used in batteries before Lithium Polymer. Lithium Polymer is a preferred chemistry because it holds a steady voltage level over the discharge curve better than other chemistries. i.e. It makes for a better experience because the device being driven is more consistent from the peak voltage of 4.2 to the cutoff voltage of 3.3. NiMH voltage fades more at the end of the curve.
Yup. Last battery purchase cost me $190 for two 9400 75C smc batteries for my xmaxx 8s. I bought 4 you and me 6500mAh 60c batteries off ebay for $190. I'm going to try them out and pit them against my smc batteries. From what I've seen on video and comments there's barely any difference. I'll cut the Deans plugs on them and solder my xt90. Stand by. All the premium and cheap batteries are probably coming from the same factory in China 🤣. I've had two smc batteries connectors come offers from inside and the cell, so they did warranty them. They sent me two new ones, so I'm happy. The C rating is another can of worms. I just try to get at least 50C but nothing insane like 100c, because it seems to be a scam to buy so much more $ for extra C rating when there's barely any difference between 50c and 100c!. Subscribed. Check out my channel 👍
@@RCVideoReviewsmy cheap batteries are going strong. They last about half an hour with 20/50 gearing on my xmaxx 8s trucks. I have had issues with the SMC batteries and they honor their warranty fast with a couple of emails and pictures so I'll give them that. I'm assuming that getting warranty from cheap batteries off ebay is harder, so it is what it is 👍
RCGroups does extensive load testing of high demand batteries (car & ducted fan) and most batteries can't handle the load. Doesn't that make a difference? It seems more objective. Doesn't Graphene reduce internal resistence and improve performance? Thanks Howard
You're going to have to be more specific. "RCGroups does extensive load testing of high demand batteries (car & ducted fan) and most batteries can't handle the load" Cars and ducted fan do not have a monopoly on demand generation. I can kick a battery squarely in the nuggets with a prop--no problem, guaranteed. What do you mean "high demand batteries"? Who on RCGroups? Can you quantify "high demand" as it relates to MAH*C? What batteries? What is a failure to "handle the load"? What is the C rating of the batteries they're testing? What is the load of they're placing on the battery? How long are they placing this load? How are they measuring this load? Is the load within specification of the battery? What difference are you trying to discern? What seems more objective than what? Have you seen voltage sag charts under identical load, for identical time, under identical conditions for graphene and non-graphene lipo you can share? Graphene makes claims. It might make a difference, it might not. Have you seen any reliable long term scientific testing showing that Graphene reduces IR over non-graphene batteries with every variable controlled and consistent over two test sets? I haven't. If you asked me if graphene batteries tend to advertise higher C ratings than standard lipo contemporaries I would say yes they do. If you asked me if I believed all of the C ratings battery manufacturers place on their batteries, I would say no I do not. If you asked me whether IR increases faster in standard batteries than graphene batteries I would say I don't know. I haven't seen a single scientific test proving or disproving. Do you have a link to a reliable scientific test? I'm not trying to bust your chops. This channel relies on video evidence for just about everything. On a rare occasion I'll ask viewers to take my word for something that I've witnessed. Without VE, or a known trustworthy evaluator, I consider most of what I read subjective.
@@RCVideoReviews Hi John, thank you for the response. Here is a link to a thread testing batteries. There are no opinions expressed, just hard data: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons Testing procedures: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45023671&postcount=9841 Glossary: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45096165&postcount=9926 They use lab grade equipment to apply a consistent load and measure endurance, temperature etc. There are some stand outs and definite batteries to avoid (Maxamps...) Please have a look. Howard
Thanks for the links Howard. I started to read through the material and it looks like he--MCSGuy, not rcgroups--does have a test method. I applaud that. But you still haven't presented me with a question I can answer. "most batteries can't handle the load. Doesn't that make a difference?" When you say "Doesn't that make a difference?" What are you asking me? MCSGuy is evaluating 6s 5000 packs. That generally means some seriously heavy lifting. I think it's a mistake to ignore the form factor 99% of batteries most RC pilots use on 99% of their planes. He also only uses 6s packs and not 2x3s packs in series favoring negative cooling. The situation changes with 2x3s packs. He is disputing the C ratings of batteries. I said at the bottom of my first response: "If you asked me if I believed all of the C ratings battery manufacturers place on their batteries, I would say no I do not." "It seems more objective." Is what more objective than what? "Doesn't Graphene reduce internal resistence and improve performance?" You're asking the question, show me the reference material you're referring to. You understand don't you that he's making comparisons of C ratings. In the video, I merely assigned a dollar value to C and adjusted for it. It's up to you to do your research and ask yourself if you believe the C ratings a manufacturer gives. His testing might help you with that decision making process, but I also don't believe one test on one battery yields a definitive result over an entire product line. My purchase decisions are based on my personal experience with multiple batteries over many years and as you can see on that shelf, I probably have more than most. I definitely have gone through more batteries than most people I know. I will stand by the point made in my video: Lipo is Lipo is Lipo. There is no magic bullet. That testing disputes marketing specifications. Let me ask you one last question: Do you ever see a physical--ruler on battery--measurement of the batteries in that testing? Do you know that a real 40c battery is *always* thicker and *always* heavier than a 25c battery of the same spec? If I bought a "40c" battery from a manufacturer that was 15% thinner than all of my other actual "40c" batteries, I wouldn't need to test it to know what's going on.
"I am now convinced there are presently no (none, nada, zip) ~5000mah packs weighing under 800 grams able to sustain a 35C continuous discharge without overheating. End of story. The only difference between one that claims 100C and another claiming 45C is how big a lie the supplier believes they need to tell in order to separate you from your money." He focuses on heavy use heavy draw form factors: 6s5000 under extreme load. He says weight tells the story (agreed). The difference comes down to marketing claims. In the end, Lipo is Lipo. Weight is weight.
John again thanks for looking into this. If you look into the results there are battery manufactures to avoid, where you just don't get the longevity (cycle life) to justify the cost: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43555233&postcount=8514 I would much prefer to pay a little more for a battery where I can get 200 cycles, rather than paying less and having the voltage start to sag at 50. Maybe you could do some cycle testing on your iCharger? I think there is a cycle mode already available where testing could be automated. You do an amazing job with The Judge on motors. Howard
Stay away from Harley Quinn they claim they're moving their warehouse. So what shure it's a lie $35 dangerous goods FedEx over a month and still in processing trashy customer service I end up disputing. It through my bank
I also buy Chinese lipo batteries since 2007 cause i was always out of money , once in 2010 i baught a small 1300 mAh battery called "diamond" from a german seller . It still works fine ,havent bloat or anything but it was expensive specially then before all the IATA nonsense
Right now there's a 5 piece bundle of 3s 2200mah 25c batteries on AliExpress for around $52 USD plus shipping. Even if only three out of the five were good, it's a better deal than just about anything I've seen before.
its true but what will harm your batteries is parallel charging .. if there is one batt has a damged cell it will effect all batteries.. at the end they are all the same ...
@@RCVideoReviews if you parallel charging 6 batteries and one of the batteries has a damged cell let say (one cell at 2.9) all your other batteries will be effected .. its down side for parallel charging ...
@@bravo226 I agree it would be a bad idea to connect cells beyond about 1/100th apart in voltage. That's why I'm a little mental about checking per cell voltages before connecting in parallel. That said, you can see in my videos the number of 3/4/5/6s packs I have. They've all been parallel charged over ~60% of their charge cycles. So I can speak from a position of direct first hand experience here that parallel charging is fine if you follow the rules. If you DO NOT follow the rules, I agree with you, you can create more harm than it's worth. My parallel charge rules: Same voltage (obviously), voltage differential < 1/100th of a volt. I prefer < 5/1000ths. Connect to parallel board and let rest for about 20-30m before starting to charge and let them sit on parallel board as long as possible after charging.
Another really helpful video. Thank you very much.
You're very welcome!
More important than Brand is How you treat the battery. So if you run it down to 9% or so all the time, it’s going to PUFF. If you fully charge it and let it sit for weeks or months, it’s going to PUFF. If you run it down, Fast Charge it and run it again and again, it’s going to PUFF. Also, if you treat it right but you have hundreds of flights on it, it’s probably going to eventually puff. But you got your money’s worth out of it.
Also, I’ve said it before and you said it here, I sometimes might pay a little more for a battery but maybe I wanted my connector and not have to solder or I wanted to get to a website’s threshold for a discount. In the end it’s an informed decision.
Great video!
Great points David. 100% Agree with you.
8:35 Btw the mah rating does not make a battery better it just last longer,the C rating is what give you that punch/that snappy feeling of acceleration
I wasn't suggesting MAH makes it a better battery, I was suggesting C rating made it a better battery as for a given capacity in MAH a higher C rating will allow for higher sustainable current.
8:23 "I gave a negative adjustment because it's a 10c improvement over the target"
C rating doesn't have anything to do with "punch" That's voltage. Voltage is the motive force/pressure behind current. The C rating simply indicates the sustainable amperage. So a 20c2200 is good for 44a where a 40c2200 is good for 88a without damaging the pack.
The only concession I make to C rating on "punch" is that higher C rating packs hold higher average voltage longer than lower C ratings. AMP draw is not a function of the battery, it's a function of load.
@@RCVideoReviews Yeah what you said XD
@@thatmand4542 you got schooled. Good job humbling down.
@@Openthrottlerc What do you mean by humbling down?
@@OpenthrottlercGet schooled(LMAO this man right here talking about "Get schooled") Packs don't "push" power, but unfortunately a higher C pack will provide more punch even if you are not drawing near its full potential. With all the marketing hype, its hard to state hard numbers, but C rating is supposed to mean how much continuous current the pack can deliver without going below 6 volts
Have had great luck with Value Hobby and Hobbyking batteries.
Jim, I really need to try some Value Hobby packs. Appreciate the feedback on your experience with them.
thank you for your approach i have been reading everything for a month to get the best p/p balance for my money and i never seemed to find any firm conclusions.
You're so welcome!
Different batches of battery will have different results as well in terms of max output.
Are you referring to delta in IR? Have you done any experimentation/measures? What can you share?
@@RCVideoReviews yes, but don't have any data on because I don't buy that many batteries as I run nitro as well. It's like with anything thats made in batches, some batches are better than others.
What is the strongest battery that you can charge with the Voltcraft charger V-Charge Eco NiMH 1000?
I'm not sure what you mean by "strongest battery" but it's only a 10w charger and it's for NiMH, so don't charge Lipos with it. Not much power in that one.
@@RCVideoReviews NiMH, yes but upto 2000mAh, 3000 mAh, 4000mAh? and charging time? Thanx 4 info.
@@Tintoycar Think of MAH as a gas tank. MAH refers to the amount of energy you can store. Chargers don't really know or care about MAH. Charging time is influenced by the MAH itself. More MAH = more charge time required if the amperage is held constant and it will be in your case because of the low power rating of 10w on that charger. The charging rate on that device is low at 10w. A 12v device like a 3s LIPO battery will charge at 0.8a. If you charge a 2200mah battery, that represents about 1/3c, which means it will take over 1 hour to charge a 2200mah battery.
@@RCVideoReviews I'm starting to get it ;-) Now it takes 2 hours to charge NiMH 2000 mAh, so i can use my little charger to charge a 4000 mAh battery but it will take much longer. I've got an old charger somewhere that's 20 years old for my 2001 Subaru Impreza. Maybe it will be of use. I understand that NiMH is for beginners ;-)
@@Tintoycar NiMH isn't for beginners, it's the chemistry we used in batteries before Lithium Polymer. Lithium Polymer is a preferred chemistry because it holds a steady voltage level over the discharge curve better than other chemistries. i.e. It makes for a better experience because the device being driven is more consistent from the peak voltage of 4.2 to the cutoff voltage of 3.3. NiMH voltage fades more at the end of the curve.
Yup. Last battery purchase cost me $190 for two 9400 75C smc batteries for my xmaxx 8s. I bought 4 you and me 6500mAh 60c batteries off ebay for $190. I'm going to try them out and pit them against my smc batteries. From what I've seen on video and comments there's barely any difference. I'll cut the Deans plugs on them and solder my xt90. Stand by. All the premium and cheap batteries are probably coming from the same factory in China 🤣. I've had two smc batteries connectors come offers from inside and the cell, so they did warranty them. They sent me two new ones, so I'm happy. The C rating is another can of worms. I just try to get at least 50C but nothing insane like 100c, because it seems to be a scam to buy so much more $ for extra C rating when there's barely any difference between 50c and 100c!. Subscribed. Check out my channel 👍
They are definitely coming from the same factories over there. Did you ever run this test?
@@RCVideoReviewsmy cheap batteries are going strong. They last about half an hour with 20/50 gearing on my xmaxx 8s trucks. I have had issues with the SMC batteries and they honor their warranty fast with a couple of emails and pictures so I'll give them that. I'm assuming that getting warranty from cheap batteries off ebay is harder, so it is what it is 👍
@@joseCalderon1976 Practical viewpoint...Happy to hear SMC stood by their product though.
RCGroups does extensive load testing of high demand batteries (car & ducted fan) and most batteries can't handle the load. Doesn't that make a difference? It seems more objective. Doesn't Graphene reduce internal resistence and improve performance? Thanks Howard
You're going to have to be more specific.
"RCGroups does extensive load testing of high demand batteries (car & ducted fan) and most batteries can't handle the load"
Cars and ducted fan do not have a monopoly on demand generation. I can kick a battery squarely in the nuggets with a prop--no problem, guaranteed.
What do you mean "high demand batteries"?
Who on RCGroups?
Can you quantify "high demand" as it relates to MAH*C?
What batteries?
What is a failure to "handle the load"?
What is the C rating of the batteries they're testing?
What is the load of they're placing on the battery?
How long are they placing this load?
How are they measuring this load?
Is the load within specification of the battery?
What difference are you trying to discern?
What seems more objective than what?
Have you seen voltage sag charts under identical load, for identical time, under identical conditions for graphene and non-graphene lipo you can share?
Graphene makes claims. It might make a difference, it might not. Have you seen any reliable long term scientific testing showing that Graphene reduces IR over non-graphene batteries with every variable controlled and consistent over two test sets?
I haven't.
If you asked me if graphene batteries tend to advertise higher C ratings than standard lipo contemporaries I would say yes they do.
If you asked me if I believed all of the C ratings battery manufacturers place on their batteries, I would say no I do not.
If you asked me whether IR increases faster in standard batteries than graphene batteries I would say I don't know. I haven't seen a single scientific test proving or disproving. Do you have a link to a reliable scientific test?
I'm not trying to bust your chops. This channel relies on video evidence for just about everything. On a rare occasion I'll ask viewers to take my word for something that I've witnessed. Without VE, or a known trustworthy evaluator, I consider most of what I read subjective.
@@RCVideoReviews Hi John, thank you for the response.
Here is a link to a thread testing batteries. There are no opinions expressed, just hard data:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons
Testing procedures:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45023671&postcount=9841
Glossary:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45096165&postcount=9926
They use lab grade equipment to apply a consistent load and measure endurance, temperature etc. There are some stand outs and definite batteries to avoid (Maxamps...) Please have a look. Howard
Thanks for the links Howard. I started to read through the material and it looks like he--MCSGuy, not rcgroups--does have a test method. I applaud that.
But you still haven't presented me with a question I can answer.
"most batteries can't handle the load. Doesn't that make a difference?"
When you say "Doesn't that make a difference?" What are you asking me?
MCSGuy is evaluating 6s 5000 packs. That generally means some seriously heavy lifting. I think it's a mistake to ignore the form factor 99% of batteries most RC pilots use on 99% of their planes.
He also only uses 6s packs and not 2x3s packs in series favoring negative cooling. The situation changes with 2x3s packs.
He is disputing the C ratings of batteries. I said at the bottom of my first response:
"If you asked me if I believed all of the C ratings battery manufacturers place on their batteries, I would say no I do not."
"It seems more objective."
Is what more objective than what?
"Doesn't Graphene reduce internal resistence and improve performance?"
You're asking the question, show me the reference material you're referring to.
You understand don't you that he's making comparisons of C ratings. In the video, I merely assigned a dollar value to C and adjusted for it. It's up to you to do your research and ask yourself if you believe the C ratings a manufacturer gives. His testing might help you with that decision making process, but I also don't believe one test on one battery yields a definitive result over an entire product line.
My purchase decisions are based on my personal experience with multiple batteries over many years and as you can see on that shelf, I probably have more than most. I definitely have gone through more batteries than most people I know.
I will stand by the point made in my video: Lipo is Lipo is Lipo. There is no magic bullet. That testing disputes marketing specifications.
Let me ask you one last question: Do you ever see a physical--ruler on battery--measurement of the batteries in that testing? Do you know that a real 40c battery is *always* thicker and *always* heavier than a 25c battery of the same spec? If I bought a "40c" battery from a manufacturer that was 15% thinner than all of my other actual "40c" batteries, I wouldn't need to test it to know what's going on.
"I am now convinced there are presently no (none, nada, zip) ~5000mah packs weighing under 800 grams able to sustain a 35C continuous discharge without overheating. End of story. The only difference between one that claims 100C and another claiming 45C is how big a lie the supplier believes they need to tell in order to separate you from your money."
He focuses on heavy use heavy draw form factors: 6s5000 under extreme load.
He says weight tells the story (agreed).
The difference comes down to marketing claims.
In the end, Lipo is Lipo. Weight is weight.
John again thanks for looking into this. If you look into the results there are battery manufactures to avoid, where you just don't get the longevity (cycle life) to justify the cost:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43555233&postcount=8514
I would much prefer to pay a little more for a battery where I can get 200 cycles, rather than paying less and having the voltage start to sag at 50. Maybe you could do some cycle testing on your iCharger? I think there is a cycle mode already available where testing could be automated. You do an amazing job with The Judge on motors. Howard
Cell manufacturers matter but honestly the big brands are mostly assembled by Chinese plants and you can source from the same place
Yeah, there's a lot more commonality in Lipo manufacture than most know. Thanks for watching.
Another way to look at it is, you can buy almost 2 from hobbyking for the price of 1 from Horizon, and they'll likely have the same life/performance.
Yup. Even is their life/performance were merely "better than half" you still come out ahead.
Stay away from Harley Quinn they claim they're moving their warehouse. So what shure it's a lie $35 dangerous goods FedEx over a month and still in processing trashy customer service I end up disputing. It through my bank
I also buy Chinese lipo batteries since 2007 cause i was always out of money , once in 2010 i baught a small 1300 mAh battery called "diamond" from a german seller . It still works fine ,havent bloat or anything but it was expensive specially then before all the IATA nonsense
Right now there's a 5 piece bundle of 3s 2200mah 25c batteries on AliExpress for around $52 USD plus shipping. Even if only three out of the five were good, it's a better deal than just about anything I've seen before.
Thanks for the hot tip!
its true but what will harm your batteries is parallel charging .. if there is one batt has a damged cell it will effect all batteries.. at the end they are all the same ...
If one cell is damaged how?
@@RCVideoReviews if you parallel charging 6 batteries and one of the batteries has a damged cell let say (one cell at 2.9) all your other batteries will be effected .. its down side for parallel charging ...
@@bravo226 I agree it would be a bad idea to connect cells beyond about 1/100th apart in voltage. That's why I'm a little mental about checking per cell voltages before connecting in parallel. That said, you can see in my videos the number of 3/4/5/6s packs I have. They've all been parallel charged over ~60% of their charge cycles. So I can speak from a position of direct first hand experience here that parallel charging is fine if you follow the rules.
If you DO NOT follow the rules, I agree with you, you can create more harm than it's worth. My parallel charge rules: Same voltage (obviously), voltage differential < 1/100th of a volt. I prefer < 5/1000ths. Connect to parallel board and let rest for about 20-30m before starting to charge and let them sit on parallel board as long as possible after charging.
If you don't know which brand packs are better then you ain't doing a lot of flying....or whatevering...or paying attention....
ok
Lol
Thank you good sir, sick of this capitalist system
I love capitalism, but that doesn't mean I won't spend wisely. That's what this video is about.