Why Is Longines Seen As Second-Rate?
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2023
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It's great that Longines is not popular! Those are luxury watches I can ACTUALLY afford!
Agree with you!
Same
Well said, the quality of the watches from the quartzes to about $3,500.00 is crazy....
I own one from the master collection I paid like 1200 Now close to 2k for one.
Longines sells a lot of watches worldwide.
Longines has an amazing history and makes excellent watches! Just because they are underrated by people who aren’t familiar with anything out of Rolex, Omega and Brietling doesn’t mean they aren’t high quality! In fact, those who know a lot about this industry, know just how good Longines is and how important they are in the world or time pieces!
Nailed it!!
Longines is a great company, which sadly gets drowned out by the repetitive din of Grand Seikos, Rolexes and the endless parade of divers. Holy crap. So many watches in the world and all we hear about is the same old stuff. So like another poster said, maybe it's good Longines is under the radar in spite of their storied history.
Agreed they are quality and under the radar 👍
I honestly think that Longines, together with Tudor and the latest course of Breitling, is the brand that is doing the best in the under 5k segment. Amazing watches.
Longines - Part of the Swatch Group. Most underrated premium watch brand out there. Just picked up a Longines Aviation Big Eye Chronograph. Vertical clutch, column wheel chronograph. Pricing around $2K. Amazing value for dollar. Now compare this watch to the new Breuget Type XX at a cost of nearly $20K. Just boggles the mind.
That's why Longines heritage collection is a gem in their whole line. Their design are just so GOOD!
I recently purchased my first Longines...the rectangular Dolce Vita 43 x 27. It's not cosc certified, but runs at a -6 to + 6. The only negative has been the crown which is beautiful, but not knurled so you need a latex glove to wind it. High polish case, silver dial with Arabics and blued hands on a black semi gloss alligator strap. It's a keeper. Enjoy your reviews ❤. Best regards from Las Vegas.
I was introduced to Longines after wanting a GMT to track two time zones. Thought of getting Tudor BB GMT in the beginning but the Zulu Time wears much better and a more reasonable deal (with COSC, similar specs, etc). L844.4 calibre holds 1 sec+ a day. I just bought my 2nd Longines, Heritage Flagship, as my dress watch. I love the brand.
A few years back I had a Longines Spirit which was amazing. Great quality and materials etc. The only problem as I see it with Longines is their fixation on long lugs, the lug to lug length is often too much.
My undisputed Longines favorite - the Avigation Big Eye. I am getting it as soon as I save up and it is destined to become the centerpiece of a small collection which includes (or will include): a Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical, A Baltic Aquascaphe Classic and one unassuming yet to be decided on dress watch - maybe a Certina DS Caimano or why not a Longines Dolce Vita.
Like the looks, not the size, but that's me.
Longines Flagship Heritage ;) beautiful dress watch
Longines is amazing...I just got the Spirit 40mm blue dial and it's the best watch I've ever had. And for the price you can't beat it. My next watch is going to be the Formex Reef GMT because I like to get one watch per brand..keeps it fun for me.
My first Swiss mechanical watch was a Longines Grande Vitesse. Valjoux 7750 movement, silver dial with black subdials, big 12 at the top. Really nice watch, and keeps excellent time (about +1.5 sec/day). Not always the most legible, the black and white hands can get lost in the subdials, but looks great.
It’s the Swatch family connection. That said, I’m really liking my Zulu in green with the leather band. It’s 1 second fast a day. Better than my Submariner!
Aren’t they #5 in Swiss watch market share? There’s obviously nothing wrong with Longines. They’re doing great and deservedly so.
I was planning on picking up the full size version as my next piece but this smaller size is just perfect. I think this will be a future classic.
Picked up my first Longines last year. A preowend Conquest VHP and my first high end quartz. Was very impressed with the build quality and curved lugs. And after a year it's still spot on! They are definitely worth checking out and the 2 toned Zulu will be added to my rotation later this year. Enjoyed your video!
I have the VHP with GMT. I use the app with the flashlight morse code thingy to get the watch super accurate! Great for travel and totally ignored by most everyone
@@hegemanc I was unaware there is an app for that. Just for the gmt version?
@@wikster6630 yes, just for the GMT, you can notice the light sensor at/in the 12 on the dial.
It’s just caught my eye, the silver dial one.
Always have had a sweet spot for Longines, actually it was my first serious watch: my dad gave me a Longines Chronograph for my 18th birthday over 20 years ago, of course I still have it and wear it a few times a year. Good value for money and awesome history, I mean Lindbergh was wearing one when he crossed the Atlantic
I think Longines was eclipsed by Omega when a later pilot wore one on a longer flight.
Perhaps. But please don’t downplay Lindberghs incredible feat . Do a little digging on it. Nothing short of a miracle combined with skill and a fearless will . He literally used the watch to navigate and make some serious mathematical calculations all flying solo. It’s an incredible story. As is the moon watch but honestly it just accompanied them.
A Longines Spirit 37mm will be my first and only luxury watch - working my way slowly towards it, another perk of Longines(at least here in the U.K) is the servicing costs are a lot more affordable then other companies.
There’s nothing I love more than a daily vid from the Time Teller right now, keep ‘em comin please
I’m becoming a Longines fan boy. Recently got the Zulu Time with the green Bezel. 42mm. But my favorite I think Heritage classic sector dial. Don’t own that one yet however.
The green 2 tone zulu gmt is currently (and by far) my favorite in my collection.
I have a sub, a seamaster, and an IWC pilot chrono as my primary watches (a few Hamiltons and Seikos as well) This one has been the only one I wear since I got it. I LOVE it.
Nice collection I've the same minus the Rolex,seamaster ànd iwc...,..but the Hamilton and Seiko's and a g shock I do have the 62mas spb 297 with the blue birch is my best which tells the worst time 😂😂
Longines is definitely an underrated brand. I agree that they can keep up with the big names given they make quality watches with a lot of features. I have my grandfather's Longines Admiral Automatic that I recently had serviced, and it is working perfectly (fantastic burgundy dial). I also acquired a Spirit Zulu Time last year and a Master Collection Automatic in two tone a month ago. They are very well made and I absolutely love their designs. Longines deserves more recognition.
I enjoy your episodes Jory. Keep it up!
I am wearing my Zulu Time Blue today. Nothing second rate about this beauty.
We are 100% aligned on Longines and the dark period in their history. I'm glad they're getting back into the swing of making gorgeous watches.
I love the numerals on this new piece, VERY classic. Identical to old telemetre numerals.
I'd not really considered Wittnauer previously, when I think of vintage American watches, I go to Bulova, Elgin, Waltham and maybe even Hamilton. I guess it's time (ha) to check them out.
In my opinion Longines is in a class of its own. Understated with a hell of a historical presence and classy It's respected in the watch community and doesn't live under the shadow of other watch brands. Even their advertising is classy and done with a kind of dignity.
Didn't know it was, first rate to me.
I've always liked Longines. I really like the Masters Calendar Chronograph moonphase GMT. I bought one with the blue dial but my eyes could not read the time at all. I plan on getting the white dial one sooner or later. I also owned some Wittnauer including my favorite which is has a chocolate bronze dial and gold arms and indicators; windup of course. The Longines are at the top of my price point .. wish they were cheaper but you get a lot there.
My favorite Longines, of course, is the Master Collection, moon phase, chronograph. Just a piece of art.
Agreed. Almost pulled the trigger on a Master Moonphase. I ended up buying a Nomos instead.
The watch was a tiny bit too busy for me, but the biggest reason I avoided it is the logo looks cheap. Something about the design of the logo just reminded me a Fossil-tier watch. I know it’s superficial, but when you spend so much on a watch you really want to love it.
I recently acquired a non-moon phase Master Collection (blue dial), and it’s absolutely gorgeous. I love this watch. Chose it over Rolex and Omega.
@@kungfoochicken08 That's only true of the white version. The logo looks better in other colours. A Fossil tier watch is nowhere near that well finished. lol.
Enjoyed the episode time teller! I Have a soft spot for Longines, as a watch by them from the ‘dark period’ (Longines presence quartz gold plated 33mm, was the first watch I purchased when I started work in the 1990’s). Still have it along with a vintage gold ultrachron dress watch , and modern record steel dress watch & spirit titanium pilot watch. Great watches.
I recently got my paws on a Longines Legend Diver - the bronze one, with green dial and no date. It's gorgeous, smooth as butter to wind, and looks great on everything: canvas, rubber, metal, leather ... even high-end alligator. Instantly became my favorite, out of eight. (My self-imposed limit; goodbye Hamilton Khaki. _Sniff!_ )
Why it's impossible to sort watches by availability in your store? Given that 95% of the presented watches have already been sold, it is quite difficult to find those that are in stock.
Another cracking video.
Greetings from England 🇬🇧
The longines Spirit gmt or the Aviation Big Eye are my favorites.
Great subject! The trifecta for me is that 39mm two tone, Ultra-Cron, & Majatek❤️❤️❤️ (Avigation Type A-7 close 3rd)
Have to agree with a lot of the comments. I'm not into watches so much and never spent much money on one, but I have been looking for another watch for a while and in store I saw the Conquest, the model with the large 12 and 6. So I asked for a closer look and I as blown away with the quality. and at a stretch I could probably afford that. But I got interested and looked at several more, and I just love them. They have a style that is their own and do things others don't. I love the Pilot Majetek, that bezel looks beautiful before you even realise it moves the arrow inside the glass (sorry, I'm not well up on the terminology). Nobody else has done that with their mainstream models. And the smaller second hand dial just works for me, and I like the fact they didn't spoil the symmetry by feeling the need to add a date window. Just brilliant.
If Longines was there own company and left Swatch group I believe they would be better off. Of course the price range would sky rocket. It’s good for us that can’t afford the ridiculous higher priced watches. Don’t get me wrong I would love an Omega Seamaster but Longines checks off all the boxes.
I have the Spirit in anthracite with the titanium case. Amazing watch and on a perlon strap I can't even tell it's there. It's my GADA watch and with the easy change band system...what's not to love?
Hydroconquest 39mm. Simply amazing watch. Made to last. 300 meters, 72 hours power reserve. Looks great.
I believe it’s because they don’t have that super iconic watch eg seamaster, speedy, submariner. Longines just has an overall good catalog
So excited for this new Zulu Time 39mm! I've never had a luxury watch (mostly G-Shocks and a Seiko 5). I've been planning on buying a Black Bay Pro, and this new Zulu Time in gold is even more perfect for me. I'll be buying this.
I have a vintage Longines Ultra-Chron chronometer from 1971 - reference 8353, with the 4:30 date window and "stepped" dial. The 36,000 bph 431 movement has the gold-trimmed rotor, reserved for the chronometer Ultra-Chrons I think.
I have one of those also. Still in it's original box.
I own my late father's Wittnauer. It's maybe 34-36mm. It looks exactly like a Datejust with diamond hour markers. I don't think I would ever wear it.
I've admired Longines for a long time. I really want to get a 39mm Conquest. It's one of the best looking everyday sports style watches on the market, especially for the price. I just need to pull the trigger.
Completely unashamed of my love for the brand and think they're killing it with well made, great designs that are well up to the standard of competitors and as such Longines deserve kudos not only from the vintage designs from the companies heritage but for the here and now... Been enjoying my green/anthracite Spirit zulu for the past year.
I bought a Longines flagship dress watch 6 weeks ago, slim enough to fit under a shirt cuff easily, very subtle on the wrist & ideal on a night out (I don't mean clubbing or bar diving)
It's proving to be highly accurate losing around 1 second a day & in the UK priced at £1700 (although I got a reasonable discount on that) Am I right in saying at this price range most watches with a COSC movement & high accuracy are usually over £2k (UK pricing)
Now thinking of selling a couple of watches & investing (probably the wrong word there) in another more day to day & water resistant model to sit alongside the flagship.
I just watched your video and I absolutely loved it! I found your presentation to be incredibly informative and engaging. You did a great job of breaking down complex concepts into easy-to-understand terms. I also appreciated the humor and personal anecdotes that you sprinkled throughout the video. It made the content more relatable and enjoyable. You're one of the few CZcamsrs who I can consistently count on to deliver high-quality content. Keep up the great work! "I outsourced this feedback to AI"
Why so surprised? Longines is porposly placed between Tissot and Omega by SG to avoid canabilizing. It's both an entry and a bridge brand and this particular segment is one of the toughest jobs a CEO can ever have.
The Spirit Zulu is My favourite too! I just picked one up for my Birthday. Pictures don’t do it justice. The green bezel, with the gold accents and the tan leather, just stunning.
Picked up the same - 42mm green bezel, tan strap. Simply. Stunning. Never leaving the collection.
Longines is considered 2nd rate because that's how the Swatch group positions them, behind Omega. They are a great value and have some amazing models. I do wish they offered tool-less micro adjust but it seems Swatch reserves that for the Omega brand.
Swatch has been doing Longines dirty for decades. They would compete with Omega if they were allowed to.
It’s sad because Longines has a much longer and storied history of watch making than does Omega…
Longines is already a heavy-hitter in its price range, but their potential would certainly be even higher if the Swatch group wasn't worried of having Omega's toes stepped on.
I say let Longines take advantage of their greater potential. I feel they're different enough from Omega anyway. Swatch group will get their sales whether it's Omega or Longines anyway.
Pretty much this. When Swatch were working out their "tiers" they saw Omega as the one for the top spot. Why? They had the Moon watch. _Huge_ marketing point(and boy have they milked that one). They also had the Seamaster. Longines had been ahead of Omega for the first half of the 20th century, but by the 1960's had started to be eclipsed by Omega. By the 80's and 90's Longines two main models were their very advanced and daftly accurate original VHP quartz and 'homages' to Hour Angles and a smattering of non inhouse chronographs. Omega was just better placed. Omega was a little more a 'world watch brand' too. Longines' markets were more the US, the Latin nations of Europe and Americas and Asia. They could have let them compete, but I suppose that would have upset the "tiers".
Omega barely does tool-free micro adjustment. Not on Aqua Terra and not on Constellation/Globemaster. In fact, they don’t have tooled micro adjustment at all.
Great piece on Longines. The Ultrachron has been on my radar for a while now. The thing that holding me back is the absence of the date complication. I know I know… I carry my phone, it has the date. But instinctively I look to watch for the date. Can you imagine the disappointment of it isn’t there 😂… I’m still convincing myself to accept the no date… its challenging but it’s getting there… 😅
For me it was the biggest mistake to ignore my “need” for a date on a watch. It’s a bit like when you buy a watch where you dislike one tiny detail - you will end up seeing (in this case missing) it forever when looking at it and eventually sell it.
Exactly how I feel, if it had a date complication, would’ve bought one long ago! Maybe one day…
I love Longines as well. My vintage Longines is a kind of early Conquest (I say early Conquest bc there is only the Longines logo on the dial, nothing more): small seconds, manual winding, 36 mm gold filled case, no date, dauphine hands, golden dial (fang shaped embossed indices, a glossy chapter ring if I may say so, and matte finishing at the center), slightly domed acrylic cristal and the 320 movement. I guess this watch comes from the late 50s or early 60s. Regards!
I have the Longines Spirit Zulu time with green bezel. Boom! That just happened! 😅 it’s a fantastic watch. Almost perfect, but I wish the lugs would curve down a bit more to hug the wrist better. Other than that, this watch kicks sooo much ass!
Incredible, you pointed out the exact 3 watches I can’t make my mind up to choose between: master 190th, heritage 1945 and Zulu 39. All different yet beautiful watches. Cool video!
Two reasons:
1. Price
2. It's more of a grown man's watch, not a forum boys or a YT boys watch.
Got one as an expensive gift. Went away outback working a cattle and sheep property for three years. Didn't want to wear a good watch in that environment. Put it in a drawer next to my cheap citizen $50. Longines never out of box cost $400 to repair before I could use it. Citizen cost $12 for new battery at Mr minit. Do not touch this expensive rort.
I've been eyeing up that Zulu Time GMT for months but shied away from the 50mm lug to lug. I even asked Longines if they were planning on a smaller version but they said no. Now I see that the lug to lug is advertised as 47mm which is in my wheelhouse. What's going on? Was I mistaken about the 50mm?
I have worn my 42mm Zulu GMT twenty four seven except for showers for over a year now and it is gaining less than 5 seconds per month! I have never had a mechanical watch anywhere near this accurate.
Longines is one of the oldest watch makers in the world, being founded in 1832 pre-dating both Rolex and Omega by over 70 years!
Fun fact: Longines' Winged Hour Glass logo is the longest standing, unchanged logo in the world! It was added to their watches in 1836 because, believe it or not, people are counter fitting them even back then!
Personally I love Longines, I currently own the 41mm grey dial Hydroconquest and it's an amazing watch. The classic diver design, the L888 movement, the build quality all top notch. Their Master Collection is insanely nice too and very well made (those dials *chefs kiss*) and I also love the Zulu Time! I'd probably have another one if I didn't have a one watch per brand rule (except for Casio of course!)
People look down on Longines because they're available at airports. That's my take on it. Longines, Tissot and a load of dogshit fashion brands are available in airports everywhere and for that reason people turn their nose up at them. But I think people are coming round to them now and realising they are a power house in the watch making world.
Well said!
I’m considering buying a Legend Diver on stainless mesh bracelet to wear as my everyday durable watch. It’s dressy and durable at the same time and I’ll only need to dig into my collection when I’m going somewhere with valet parking.
My two favorites watches are Longines. Both are dress watches that incorporate aviation watch elements in a way that softens the dressiness in a way that I love. One thing I am not crazy about is the Legend diver, which watch reviewers seem to go nuts for.
I have one of the newer hydroconquests with the ceramic, and a VHP with carbon fiber dial. I have been eyeballing that Zulu for years. I agree with you. I think they really started knocking it out of the park with the newer stuff. The difference between pre vs post 2016 Longine is so obvious that it looks to me like they are investing in the brand with purpose. I like to think that they are angling it to compete as an alternative to Omega with their own unique style, and they are just going through the xx year process of gaining back prestige and recognition and adjusting prices to reflect that.
I love the hydroconquest (green) and the master moon (black dial). On the less affordable side, the spirit flyback looks so good also.
I really want this watch having two other Longines watches already this one is my next one on my list! Longines deserves more love. In my humble opinion, Longines is up there in the luxury category. You get so much watch for a decent price.
I always wanted the bronze legend diver with the green dial, which I still may get one day. I just have a lot of other divers atm. But as soon as I saw the 190th Anni. I knew I had to have it. It is so much more elegant in person. It makes me feel I'm wearing something more than double I paid. The breguet numerals are something else.
I recently bought the Longines Spirt Zulu GMT (42mm) green bezel/black dial with leather strap. I love wearing it as my daily watch!
Longines even invented the rotating bezel. They did that in 1935. Longines has done so much for the watch industry that it's insane they could ever be considered second rate
Top tier in my opinion.
LOL, As you were talking about age, the frame of your face cam cut out the edges of your GOLDS GYM tshirt so it just said OLD. I need me one of those, haha. Great video as always, my man!
Longines is a wonderful brand, knocked down a bit by Swatch group positioning. But it’s growing again in terms of recognition (and price, unfortunately). On top of the ones you mentioned - especially the 190th anniversary - here are five great watches: Hydro Conquest (stylish affordable diver), Avigation Type A-7 (a quirky nod to all the incredible watches connected with flying), Master Complications (masterfully done classic watch with a lot going on on the dial), Ultra-Chron (very versatile, high-beat and ultra precise at 2 sec/day max) and Spirit Flyback Chrono (a new well done updated comeback from their history).
As a separate thing, but nice nonetheless, I want to mention the Dolce Vita. It’s a beautiful unisex collection - both inspired by the Cartier Tank and the countless rectangular watches from Longines’ past - a stylish colorful collection with the most beautiful bohemian name :)
My two cents.
Keep up the great work, Jory!
I'll buy a Longines before I buy an Omega... Stunning new designs from Longines.!! People give praise to in-house calibers plus they didn't milk their history like they should have.
Have an Omega and a Longines, and yeah Longines is no1 and always will be. :)
Happy Birthday Jory. I tried on a Tudor BB54 last night, and then I saw the 39mm Zulu Time today. I may have found the one.
Got rid of my 37mm spirit to make room for the explorer and I wish I kept it.
I've developed some kind of infatuation with the A7 1935 pilot watch with the mono pusher. I don't know why?
Hey if it ain't too happy birthday to you. Keep up the great work love the videos you are truly inspiring
I really want a Longines Master Collection Triple Calendar Moonphase Chrono. It just does EVERYTHING.
I just love the quirkiness of the longines conquest from the 80s and early 90s. It's unique. Also their understated dress pieces form the "dark period" are cool, many different case shapes and always built solid.
It's not Longines that is second rate. It's most of the "first-rate" brand that are ripping us off (unless you buy second hand)!
BTW, that model with frosted dial and engraved hour markers: Stunning! If you had obscured the Longines logo, it could have been taken for one of those low number, rare hand made pieces with ditto price tag.
Agreed, although I quite like the design of that logo over the regular logo these use on other lines.
I’m with you on the screws holding the back on. If they aren’t tightened to the same torque it could cause the caseback to warp potentially allowing moisture to get in.
They're tiny screws so should only be tight enough to compress the seal. They will break long before warping the case back.
Longines is amazing. Quality, finish, dress watches! The oldest logo in histiry. Amazing
I picked up the Longines Spirit Prestige. It came on the bracelet and two leather straps. All are quick change, no tools needed to swap. It's an excellent value, and a superb watch.
The Longine 39mm Conquest - has the same depth rating as the hydro without the bulk. It also has easy legibility and to top it all off a simple will fitted bracelet.
My favorite Longines is the Hydroconquest Automatic All Black Ceramic L37844569 which I bought as soon as it came out.
I have the Longines Master Collection 36mm date version bought on 2016. I am delighted with it. Currently being serviced.
I love Longines! Super underrated! The Master Collection is so good and such a great value. I have the 39mm green Zulu GMT and I get more compliments on it than I do when I wear my Explorer 1.
The 39 mm Longines Spirit has the perfect size in my humble opinion. And I have to say that the one with gold bezel and crown looks really cool. I can understand why it is a huge commerciali success. It's great to see such a great brand to come back to the success they had in the past and to the place they deserves in the watch world.
I like the new 41 mm conquest . Just curious what you think of the L888 movement made by ETA? Does the ETA have downside that would reflect poorly on this watch ? I’m just learning about automatic watches .
Jory, FYI I went to your website and it needs to be cleaned up or add filters for customers to find the watches for sale. Too many “sold out” watches appear first on the screen.
The Longines Ultra chron is still on my short list and a vintage Big eye. That scream at the end 😅
I love vintage Longines!! Favorite are the 18k Conquests. For the reissues, still love the Legend Diver and the Heritage 1945s. I don't mind that they are "second tier." ETA means easy servicing.
I don’t think it helps that at my local department stores they sit between Gucci and Fossil.
I love Longines. The Ultra chron and spirit Zulu are in my rotation right now. And the history in their catalogue is great
Longines spirit 37mm is on my shortlist. That dial is pure class.
Long love Longines!! I currently have two, one from their heritage collection and another that’s a vintage watch and they are two of the most well made watches I own!
Oh. And the new one I have is the Pulsometer 😍😋😋
From a design perspective this watch is top notch. I have no notes.
I got my Longines Spirit 37 blue dial and I loved it, then got the Flagship Heritage the other day, another good decision made. Love the Zulu Time GMT but 42mm is too big for my 6.25” wrist. Now that they came out with the 38.5mm I’m sure it will be my next Longjnes watch.
Longines is a great brand with great history in watch making.. it is still big in the far east along with Rado.. these days though I think if they stopped using ETA based calibers and start making inhouse movements similar to what Omega is doing they would be viewed at the same level as Oris and Zenith which are both great watch makers..
Perhaps my favorite watch in my collection is my Longines legend diver in bronze. Great episode!
Hi Jory, when will we see a Time Teller Shop site update?? Happy Belated Birthday
I love Longines! Their watches are much more interesting to me than those made by Tudor, which is somewhat in the same price range.
Longines is one of the great watch brands. Their vintage pieces are excellent. Lindbergh watch, chronometers & they have some great heritage reissues.. I have a 1960.s hand wound classic stainless steel hand wound watch, still insane accurate.
They are going to release a conquest chronograph very soon. Pictures are already over the internet and it looks incredible as well. I'm wondering which one to get first, the chronograph or the zulu time gmt 39mm, I will probably get them both at some point.
The new 39mm Zulu time is fantastic but missing out the quick adjustment clasp feature that they have launched with their new hydroconquest gmt recently, hope they will add it back to the Zulu time line and it will be a home run for me
From what I understand when the Swatch group took over Longines along with a lot of other brands, Longines got moved down the pecking order simply because the name was hard to pronounce. Prior to that, Longines was on par with Omega.
I didn’t realize Longines was so underrated until i moved stateside. Proud to have 2 modern and 3 classic in my collection