Full Review | 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW | Class C RV With a Massive Slideout
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2019
- There's so much to love about the 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW but a few deficiencies are really hard to get over.
Special thanks for Happy Daze RV in Sacramento (www.happydazerv.com) for allowing me to video their Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW for this video. Call them today to inquire about this particular RV: 916-921-2222
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What do you think of the Tiffin Wayfarer 25RW?
Ultramobility Great review. Marginal coach. Thank you for pointing out the shortcomings as you saw them as well as the strengths. This wouldn’t be for me in many ways, but the OCCC factor should be a real concern for just about everybody.
I am too tall at 6.3'
682-315=367.
Me and wife =350. 17 pounds left. 2 dogs totalling 100 pounds. 83 pounds overweight. Add 100 pounds of clothing and bedding...183 pounds overweight. 20 pounds of dog food, 50 pounds of human food and drink, and we are over 250 pounds overweight. Look, I love Tiffin. I have a Phaeton. We have noticed quality issues with the Wayfarer. We want to add a little class C for non-Towed touring (class b is too small). So, we are likely to go with a Winnebago View 24V, and we are likely to have a thousand more pounds of OCCC. Would live to see your review of one of those.
@Mark Du Ree - excellent sharing of your real world numbers plus the fact that you are a current Tiffin owner (as are my parents!). Thank you so much for sharing and the Navion/View is on my list for a full review!
Ultramobility if I might add: I believe that the leveling mechanisms are great, if that’s important to you...and with an absorption refrigerator it is, or should be important to the buyer. But, they add 2-300 pounds. Further, I believe the newer 12v compressor refer on the View/Navion twins is lighter than the absorption refer, AND it is more forgiving of a bit off-level parking. So, the View/Navion gives you that extra OCCC before even talking about the lighter but strong aluminum frame and other weight saving machinations.
Have my used coach 4 months now and finally got it weighed. In no way was every nook & crannie packed....BUT I WAS 1K#s!!! over on my rear axle- 700#s under on the front, which meant I had to do A LOT of reorganizing and dump 300#s of cargo. The garage is pretty empty now, and my water tank was full and black/ grey tanks empty when i weighed. Havent reweighed yet but its made me very conscience of what i load up- even groceries. Was shocked to realize how much clothing weighs! Time to lose a few lbs so i can get smaller, lighter duds😁😁 Neil you are correct. Extra wt drives up gas costs, wears axles, tires and transmissions. I value your videos and many others who taught me so much long before I bought this first rig.THANK YOU!
be sure to do more research from the companies instead of amatuers like neil here as you should not be driving or weighing your coach with full water tanks!
Agree with your review. Build quality looks substandard for that price.
it's unfortunate. the tiffin family/brand name deserves better.
Biuld quality looks substandard for a new rig. What does it look like after a few months of heavy use?
hey peter maybe you should see one in person. this video is shoddy and shot by clearly an amatuer
Good review Neal, thanks. Slowly we inch towards a sensible, practical small motorhome. It’s a steep learning curve, the problem is that customers pay them (manufacturers) to learn. But, what’s with the designers sticking to the funeral home look? Just copy the simpler, brighter, updated European interior design. Also, a massive slide-out translates into a massive added weight and a massive potential mechanical problem. I favor the Pleasure Way approach to not adding any slide-outs to what is supposed to be a smaller, nimbler small motorhome. I own a TLV Unity TB, not perfect but IMO, the best choice in this class.
Keep up the good work.
thank you so much hector! and thank you for sharing your ltv ownership experience with us! agree that we need more modern interior design options here in states!
Your "funeral home" description made me laugh. So true. I find most American interior styling to be dated. All that colonial looking timber and those brass fittings are outdated. You would think you were standing inside a vintage camper. No thanks. Euro styling all the way!
make sure you do more research than what this nutjob has said. this video quality and "research" done on this is amatuer at best.
@@nickjoyce1745 dude, do you work for Tiffin? Why so much anger at this man's opinion. Many seem to agree with him but even if you don't does that warrant the anger ?
Thanks Neal. Especially for pointing out the quality flaws or lack of quality I should say. This is surprising to me since Tiffany has this attitude of nobody is better than us. I really appreciate you doing this review and pointing out the OCCC.
i feel responsible to viewers and need to point out what i see. i'm not saying all wayfarers have these quality problems but the one i viewed did and i felt i needed to point them out. thanks for the comment.
Thanks for another great review, Neil. The OCCC was a deal killer for me with a few coaches. A different configuration of the Wayfarer had a bit larger OCCC - something like 720 pounds, but that wasn't much of an improvement. Like the Dynamax Isata, the Wayfarer's weight capability demonstrates a lack of ethics on the part of their respective manufacturers. I don't see how they could NOT be aware that dealers are downplaying the lack of capacity by telling customers "Everyone ignores that." or "OCCC doesn't mean anything." like I had dealers tell me. That lack of ethics tells me the manufacturer also won't stick up for his customers if they are denied warranty coverage by the OEM due to exceeding GVWR ratings.
I suppose you could theoretically make the case that people who only stay in full hookup sites don't need fresh water and add that 300+ pounds back into the capacity but on the other hand, this is America. Expecting an average person to weigh 160/120 pounds is being just a little overoptimistic. According to healthline.com, the average American male weighs almost 200 pounds and the average female weighs over 170 pounds. Basically, the Wayfarer would be at least 20 pounds overweight if its occupants traveled naked and starving!
Not to mention sleeping 6 would exceed OCCC by an even greater margin. And you're right. What is the point of sleeping 6 if the coach only has seat belts for 2? I believe that is another ethical stretch by the manufacturer who gives a to people traveling in the coach without the required safety equipment.
all well said. it's the reason for my channel. i want people to make informed decisions as these are huge purchases that for many will draw down their life savings. the more informed we are as consumers the more we will demand change and the manufacturers will have to listen. i hope my channel is doing its part to help drive some of this awareness. thanks for your comment.
I know this is a serious safety topic but I can’t help laughing out loud at your comment about “occupants travel naked and starving!” 😂
@@Ultramobility , I'm sure the answer is in another video somewhere, but in the OCCC are the manufacturers including chassis fuel or propane? 16 gallons of propane are going to kill off another 60+ pounds while the fuel I'd have to assume was accounted for in the vehicle side of the calculation that propane was added and likely wasn't right?
Thanks Neil! Great info.. the lack of weight capacity (probably due to heavier sliders) and poor build quality are huge deal breakers.
thanks for the comment Dan!
You are getting better with your demonstration
This was on my list of considerations, thank you for the review. It will now be off the list! Great job with the videos!
sandy this amatuer youtuber does not know what he is talking about. absolutely pathetic video review
Nick Joyce oh ok thank you! So the Tiffin Wayfarer is a good rig??
Excellent review I'm glad that you branched out to C-Class keep up the good work the warranty is a no-go for me on this one
Neil, thank you for reviewing class C's. More importantly, thanks for providing honest reviews and not sugar coating things. It is nice to have of source outside the, for lack of a better term, the RV magazine/e-zine industry. They are all basically just payed advertisers. Your integrity shows through which is why I watch, no matter the class.
oh wow. this comment really touches me. thank you so much. i appreciate hearing that you appreciate my channel. i don't always get it right but i try. i always encourage viewers to go check one out themselves and make up their own mind and hopefully they agree with some of the important points i make in my videos. thank you for your comment. made my day. :-)
@@Ultramobility Your are very welcome Neil. People like you on CZcams have basically become honest RV journalists. Most of what we sift through is pure bullshit. Thanks again.
Great review... Thx!
Great Review! I'm glad you're branching out to Class C's and B+'s. We had 3 Class B's in prior years but we've grown a bit more greedy for space as we get older. We now have a B+...but we're looking at slightly larger C's. You're review, here, is very comprehensive.
Didnt know you were doing class C reviews....awesome.....I had my eye on the phoenix cruiser 2552...would love to see you do that review....thx Neil....keep up the excellent work
many thanks! yep branching out to class C rigs now!
Great review as always Neil, I would love to see a spreadsheet of average OCCC for each model/manufacturer for class b’s and c’s. It would quickly narrow down the choices I believe.
You have a great 4th! Not crazy with a Murphy bed. 77 lbs, no way this will work, heck my bike is 50lbs!
There's got to be something better than a Murphy bed.
Happy 4th! We had a 6.4 earthquake a couple of hours ago while I was in my '99 FourWinds. Quite an experience. Thanks so much for your incredibly informative video. I had been considering the Wayfarer, but no longer after considering all the features you pointed out. In May, you compared the Navion and Wayfarer and now it would be terrific if you would also do a full review of the Winnebago Navion 24D. Thanks so much for that you do for us. May God bless you and yours
many thanks for your kind words Iris Lewis! Yes, a full review of the Navion is forthcoming!
Another excellent review Neil. Thank you! I vote for you to review the new Wayfarer 25LW with its massive garage.
Noted!
Great review, thanks for putting all this work into this research. We had our eye on one of these but never did the cargo math....so disappointing. And the build quality - it’s not what we expected from this brand.
hi edith - you're more than welcome and thank you for watching and letting me know that you enjoyed the video. it's the reason why i do it. glad to hear that my videos are helping you make an informed purchase decision!
this video is disgusting and shows completely the wrong information!
Happy 4th of July Neil! Great 👍 video as always. I’ve taken a look at this Tiffin before it’s just way too much for me (solo traveler), I think a good option for families for sure. For me the XLMB is still the #1 choice for a solo traveler if I’m looking for something extra large.
happy 4th ben! thank you for that and for your continued support of my channel over at patreon. i agree with your assessment of the xlmb. one of my favorites as well!
Excellent video 👍
Great Review as usual. For many of the reasons that you have pointed out - is the reason that I took the Wayfarer off our list. Was waiting patiently for the new MB chassis in hopes that it would have a higher GVRW weight and that Tiffin would have been able to increase the OCCC, however as you pointed out, they gained about 60 lbs from the 2018 model. Not enough for this to be a viable FAMILY coach. Go figure, the 2020 Winnebago with virtually the exact same floor plan is now starting to trickle to the market and it has an OCCC of approx. 1120 lbs. and has much higher grade options such as Lithium and solar. I would love to see you do an updated deep dive into the new 2020 View/Navion with same floor plan,,, since it seems to be the only real option for those of us that need to take children or grandchildren on our adventures. Thanks for all of your honest and unbiased reviews,,,nowadays you may be only one that is trying to keep the RV industry on their toes and with hopes of building better quality coach’s.
Wow. You nailed it again. Tiffin was a top quality manufacturer. We looked at theses for months and couldn’t find one with enough OCCC. In our search we kept on seeing many of the same quality issues you were seeing plus more. So sad to see Tiffins quality suffering.
thank you so much for sharing your experience in looking into Tiffins. I'm glad that you appreciate my videos!
Great review! Once again I'm dumbfounded by the lack of counter space. The biggest reason I'm leaning towards a custom van build is so I have room to actually cook a decent meal. Whoever is designing these RVs has clearly never cooked anything more difficult than Top Ramen. 🙄 And don't get me started on the OCCC. Who at Tiffin thought this was a good idea?
it is hard to defend a class c for lack of kitchen prep space...
Thanks for another excellent review. I've heard Tiffin is basically getting more business than they can handle and that's why assembly has been lacking lately. They use great materials, hardwoods, solid surfaces, cover just about every other surface in ultra-leather, I think dovetailed drawers, etc..but some of the final finish work is lacking...the OCC is a serious problem...we already know the high end materials are heavier and I'm guessing that huge slide isn't light.
Great video as always....we looked at this before we bought our coach house platinum 3.....2 things I love about this one that we don’t have ......leveling system and the dinette on this looks sturdy......ours has a wimpy leg that holds up the table ......thanks Neil
thanks for sharing your experience Ruth having purchased a coach house platinum 3! really valuable!
Ultramobility the quality of the coachouse is so worth the extra money to me.ive always been a one pair of really nice boots chick instead of 4 cheaper pair. If our experience continues to be positive with it we will likely buy another in a few years.its the dinette leg on ours that kills us..trying to figure out a mod to get it out of our way and to not look so cheapy for lack of a better word.....we never use our dinette as a bed so we don’t need to have it go up and down....
Tiffin Sprinter C seems to be the only one that gets it correct with a diesel generator. All other builders seem to use propane gen or offer it at a 5000 option. I can get diesel along my routes or bring it into my site with a 5 gallon safety can but normally cannot easily get propane. Additionally even at stations that have propane I cannot fill propane without a station attendant. All diesel pumps I go to in my travel states are self service
Ruth what is a platinum 3 coach. I have not heard of one. Is it on a Sprinter chassis
Thanks
HFJCHS123 it is on a ford transit 1 ton chassis deisel.....coachouse makes the Platinum 3.....they also have a a platinum 2 on the Mercedes sprinter.....I may purchase one in a few years ....we’ve had the platinum 3 2019 for about 6 months and the quality is outstanding...,,there is a waiting period if you order which is why we went ahead with the one we bought because it was ready.they had used it in a few rv shows so we got a really good deal.we love ours.they are a family owned company in Nokomis Florida.jason was my salesman and I had corresponded with him for years before this purchase.....
Thanks for bringing up weight issue
We have the TW with the window. It’s a big heat sink issue. I covered ours up with insulation foil.
thank you so much for sharing your ownership experience!
Very good review! I would love to see your review of thr Renegade, Vienna, a 25 foor class B+ with a full body slide. Similar to this Tiffin, but a better build quality.
noted in my notebook raymond!
If they are this shoddy with their build, it makes me wonder what else they got wrong? Very disappointing
it is disappointing. i hope that they continue to improve their product quality. maybe as we buyers express our disappointment they will listen.
Great review. I agree with the inconsistency in designs and capabilities. Tifflin has always made an upgrade higher priced coach. By those standards, this is shoddy and more in the $100,000 - $125,000 class. We saw better in the $75,000 - $100,000 units you reviewed.
this video is shoddy and the coach is built very well. disgusting review video
Awesome review Neil. The warranty is ridiculous, 1000 watt inverter is weak and the 2000 watt should be standard. What were they thinking to allow the small amount of OCCC?? That is ludicrous and anyone that decided that exceeding government guidelines as far as cargo, people, etc is playing with fire. I mean other cars and vehicles around them would suffer damage if a major failure happened because they were overweight!! For 150 K I certainly expect better than that. I went on a tour of the exact model you reviewed and saw the same issues Neil. It's such poor business practice to allow build issues like that to exist. They are off my list of potentials as of now. Keep up the good work!
thank you so much for sharing your own experience magic journey. and thank you for letting me know that you found my video valuable!
Finally!!!
Someone refers to this as a class C!
Mucho respecto sénior.
I see numerous sales people refer to it as B+.
The front window delete is because of complaimts about leaks.
One could fit 1000 watts of solar up top, easy.
It's a really nice layout, but too dependant upon, and vulnerable to leaks, due to that huge slide.
I'd be angry if my $150,000 rig was tattered up before I had 100,000 miles on it.
The paint style is also unnacceptabe 😂
interesting out the window. makes a lot of sense.
At least on paper, I think the Winnebago View 24D seems to address the OCCC and seat belt issues you note, both of which are just show stoppers for me. When you can find a copy of the new 2020 model, hope you will do a similar overview of the Winnebago Murphy Bed floor plan. Great content!
Hey Neal! Love your videos. Could you do a video on any maintenance issues you or anyone you know have had with their rigs? I've spent the last few weeks talking to friends]family who own and have owned RV's or trailers. They have all warned me from buying one because (they say) after 3-5 trips their rigs came to need almost constant repair of some kind be it large or small. Dump valve handles coming off, lights flickering, A\C issues, frig issues, drawers and cabinets that wouldn't lock to name a few. The models we discussed were Winebago's, Jayco's and Air Stream. thx.
Neil,
It is always mentioned that the manufacture does not OFFER LITHIUM, An individual can install Lithium batteries for approximately $1000 each and not spend the out rages $10,000 that a manufacturer wants. And if they’re smart enough they can buy their coach with Solar to begin with to keep them charged and BattleBorn makes a fantastic battery for a motorhome. That’s all I’ve learned besides other things of course
another hard lesson learned by many owners--the Tiffin warranty does NOT transfer to subsequent owners. In the past, this type of coverage was grandfathered by the leadership at tiffin, but since the thor ownership, it is now strictly enforced. Caveat emptor.
Terrific review. Saw a 2020 Wayfarer for sale and always respected Tiffin, but, expectations are higher for Tiffin on quality. Agree with you that it shouldn;t have issues. Also, the weight specs are a concern.
thank you
After looking at various units at different dealers, we were a day away from when we were supposed to pick up a 2020 Tiffin Wayfarer 24TW. (We like the LTV Unity but there are no dealers anywhere near us). We spent a good deal of time at the dealer cranking up the generator and running everything, looking for any finish flaws and driving the unit. We do love the 2019 Mercedes chassis and as Roadtrek Sprinter owners already have a high degree of satisfaction with the Sprinters. (Not so much for the Roadtrek unit itself). We saw none of the finish problems you did though we did have OCCC concerns though its a bit better on the TW and we are light packers. We thought our luck was running bad when two days before the trade our engine light came on. Several hundred dollars later we had 6 new glow-plugs on the old Roadtrek. When we drove the new Sprinter, we saw that the fuel gage was not working. They had extra time to get this right and then called the day before we were to pick it up to say it would be at least another week. (My Mercedes dealer said that made no sense nor did it to us.) At that point we decided the Mercedes gods had intervened in our fate and we told them to forget it.
Honestly, between the dealers, manufacturers and campgrounds our love of the RV life has reached its limit. When we get back home this fall, the Roadtrek is going to PPL and we're going to Mexico!
oh tom i'm so sorry to hear about your experience. don't give up on the rv lifestyle! you can and will find the perfect rig for your needs and when you do trust me owning a coach just opens up a world of possibilities. what does PPL mean?
@@Ultramobility PPL Motorhomes (with 3 Texas locations) is a very reputable consignment only dealer we've work with on previous RV sales.
Just picked up a Coachmen Freelander 21QB. It’s a 24’ Class C , no slide outs. Perfect for a family with a couple of kids at a budget price. Wanted a Class B but this is more practical.
congratulations robert! welcome to the rv lifestyle!
Tks Neil as usual very good informative video, I'm not impressed about this rv and many others as well, quality and reliability is going down , do they have an answer concerning the occc and many other aspects of their units??? see you next time.
as i move into class c rigs i fear we're going to see lesser and lesser quality and you know this from your years of working in the rv industry don't you claude?
Glad u figured it out. Most reviewers don't. The Mercedes sprinter cutaway chassis have had these kinds of gvwr issues pretty since day one didn't matter who slapped their name on the side. You didn't include the weight of a full propane tank which would leave you 8.2 lbs of cc. There is some light on the horizon and that is that they now have a upgraded 4500 chassis (Mercedes) which has 1085 lbs more GVWR. A total 12125 lb GVWR which gives you some breathing room but that 1085 might be eaten up by a more heavier frame to cope with the new spec. There is another issue that creeps in here also. That is Mercedes dealer/service and reliability. Compared to the other major chassis manufacturer the number of dealers is greatly lacking probably about 80% fewer places to get your unit fixed. That affects not only how long the tow to get to the dealer, plus the number of weeks it will take to get it fixed. Upside is the cost of the hotel room will be nil as you sit outside of the dealership waiting inside your unit. Then, of course, is Mercedes pricing on repairs and parts is not budget orientated. Hopefully now that the sprinters are now being manufactured in the USA, parts will also be made here. In the past Germany was a long ways away to ship parts from. Mercedes may be perceived as a maker of quality vehicles but if you look at the data of the companies that farm reliability number it ranks below average. Now to counter all this negativity I followed the view/navion/minnie winnie yahoo groups for over a decade and generally, most people seem satisfied with the product. Unlike the sprinter/dodge group which were filled with tales of woe with the most commercial use of the vans. Parts availability was also a sore spot. The only reason I could think of for the great divide in satisfaction was that motorhomes spend an inordinate amount of time driving down very smooth stress-free highways unlike the stop and go pothole-filled urban roads. One complication of the new units is that they are more tech. based with lots of active driving controls and many conveniences which unfortunately is what leads to more opportunity for things to go awry. I remember hearing that Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear fame went to move his power seat back in his brand new whiz-bang Mercedes SLK and the roof opened.
I'm so happy you did this review. When I looked at one w Murphy bed I was very excited about the layout. It's awesome.
Then I noticed all the same stuff and more you pointed out in this review concerning build quality. When I commented these concerns to you on another vlog you suggested Pleasureway. I agree. I'm so disgusted with the poor quality of RVs I bought a 2012 Chevy Express Cargo van (lowtop, regular length, low budget) and am doing a decent quality build on it to see if I gain confidence enough build my own high quality high top Mercedes or Ford class B rv.
Thank you for your reviews. I personally would not recommend anyone purchase a Tiffin Wayfarer.
wally - thank you so much for sharing your experience with the wayfarer. it's important that others see and read what you have to say. really interested to hear about your journey building out your own van! please feel free to share with us here in the comments on videos!
Great review! I agree with everything you pointed out. Sad that they did not make the bed a few inches bigger to accommodate taller folks.
Is there anything they could do to the suspension so that he can carry more weight?
Might make the ride a little bit more smoother as well?
My LTV Unity always felt overweight. I never checked the OCCC.
Does your model really only weigh 160lbs?
i weigh 150lbs lol!
I've become very disappointed with Tiffin . The OCCC is inexcusable , as well as the build quality issues . Thanks for another great review .
thanks for watching michael!
Great review as usual! the occc is quite low and I don't know what you can do with it. Is it true the sliding mechanism is about 2-300 lbs? I think a lot of manufactures missed the mark by offering a slide out on every b+ van.
great question about the weight of the slide. not sure it is that much but it does indeed add weight.
While it has a nice look, I would never get an RV that is unusable with the slide in. The Leisure Travel Van has the advantage there, since their Murphy bed is usable with the slide in. There are times when you need to stealth nap and a slide out defeats that purpose.
true what you say here. pleasureway does away with the slide entirely and designs a usable coach including a usable murphy bed with no slide!
One thing I've been looking at with diesel Class Cs is the step down to the cab, and whether the front seats swivel. It makes a big difference if you can use the front cab area for seating. Using the booster seats on Mercedes models doesn't appeal to me. And Fords often only swivel the passenger seat. To me the ideal situation is a flat floor into the cab with both seats swiveling rearward. Even better if there's a way to have a foldout workstation up front so you can use it with a laptop.
The leveling jacks are a HUGE deal. Lack of auto leveling is why I moved from a class B to a class A. Sleeping on a slope is VERY uncomfortable regardless of how good of a mattress is in the coach and dealing with leveling blocks is hugely inconvenient (especially when you're messing around on wet ground) and those blocks take up precious little cargo space in a class B. So, Tiffin deserves a big credit for adding them. Only 1 or 2 other Sprinter based motorhomes offer this option...I think the Renegade Vienna and Leisure Travel.
Can’t help but think that Robin from Creativity RV vlog made a mistake buying this coach as a full timer. Too bad she had to trash LTV in the process. Probably going to end up as another tough lesson for her.
I think Robin mentioned she travels light so I assume she is aware of the weight limitations. I think she was just being honest about her experience with LTV. She had some nightmare problems.
This is not a full timers coach. It’s not even a weekender coach. Robin was a neophyte RVer and she took out her ignorance on LTV. One need only compare LTV owners groups on social media to other brands, not to mention resale value, to see that part of Robins issues were self inflicted. She handled the situation poorly after buying the wrong floor plan and then blamed her inexperience on the manufacturer. Now she’s bought the wrong coach again, sadly.
Thanks for the heads-up. The flaws in this RV are sizable and impossible to ignore.
Would you ever consider reviewing a BT cruiser? I've been eyeing the 5210, but can't find a very good review.
Excellent point about OCCC and highway safety. I wonder if insurance companies look into the weight the unit is carrying when there is an accident. Would be interested to hear from anyone’s personal experience.
me too!
Can't believe they even produced that class c with that payload. We have a 2018 thor axis 25.3 and is 26.5' long it has a payload of 3024lb tows 8000lb. $69k new.
Neil, let's look at some of the awesome Truck Campers. Soon??
got to get back to some truck campers. i really liked the nucamp! i hear you!
The flexible sliding door in the shower actually is a great motorhome solution. It weighs next to nothing and is self wiping. Glass doors are heavy, drip into the hallway when opened, and require more cleaning. So, I wouldn't ding Tiffin for quality on this issue.
I think it looks better with the dinette option. Looks awkward with two couches. Maybe could add a "club" type chair in the tv area which would create conversation seating. Although the cons would not make this an option for me!
Thank you for the in-depth review. It’s too bulky for my preference. I love the nimbleness and quality of the Pleasure-Way Ascent; it’s currently my favorite. But I’m very excited to learn about Panoramic from your previous video. Looking forward to seeing them available in the U.S. market for 2020.
you got it kayla! thank you so much for watching and being a patreon supporter! can't wait for the panoramic to come here as well!
@@Ultramobility Hey Neal, here's an idea for a new review: Directly compare the Coach House Arriva to the Panoramic.
Love the wood & Bathroom, else not so much. OCCC means can't bring the mother-law (that could b a good thing) ... Y do they insist on the stripes and swirls, these MH's can b just as elegant without them. Thanks N, another excellent review.
hey Billy - re: swoopy graphics i just think it's easier and they don't want to think about it unfortunately?
I asked Trent Tiffin what the CCC is for the 2021 Wayfarer 25 RW. The answer is 900 to 1,000 pounds, depending on options. I recently ordered a 2022 25 RW. They are no longer taking orders for 2021 models. Delivery estimated in August. They hope to update their website in May.
I believe that the OCCC of 682# is the amount after the 300#+ of fresh water.
Low cargo carrying capacity is the big secret of all the Sprinter based Class C RV's, not just this one. Thanks for pointing this out. You didn't add Black or Gray weight to the OCCC. I thought that was included. MY understanding is that liquid wise, the Fuel is not, but everything else is.
I look forward to when you do a review on Coach House RV Platinum 220 TB Twin Beds
.
probably won't be reviewing them as they don't have show rooms and have not responded to any of my attempts to get in touch with them.
@@Ultramobility I would have liked to see a head to head between Pleasure Way B+ you review recently and Coach House 220 of similar length. Maybe Coach house standards are not as high as that of Pleasure-Way and not up to the challenge. Maybe the reason for avoiding you as you have many viewers who watch your videos to help them choose the right RV for themselves. Thank You for trying I am now just looking at B and B+ units sold by Pleasure-Way.
Ultramobility come to my house and review the platinum 3
Hurts not to see a rear ladder. Roof and top components are very important to maintain..that a deal breaker with several new RV rigs that I live otherwise. Thanks for review!
Good review by you. Bad choice of unit due to shabby workmen ship.
I notice the handles of the black and grey tank valves are all pointing top. From my past experience, it is hard to pull those handles when they are not point toward you. The more they get older, the more you have to apply force to pull them. Bad ideas. I'm considering buying 2020 Wafarerer until I see these handles.
I love your videos and there very informative, I don’t own an RV but I hope that one day I will, this RV looks beautiful inside but the quality is horrendous and shabby!!!! Thank you for the information and honestly 👍🏻
you're more than welcome john! thanks for watching and letting me know how you liked the video!
Thanks for the in-depth review. Very disappointed with Tiffins warranty and the issues you pointed out. If you’re paying $150k+ you should expect at minimum 2 yr warranty. I wonder if the chassis has separate warranty?
Good point!
The Occupant Carfo Capacity and quality is a huge concern for me.
When are you going to do a comparison between the PW and the Coachman Beyond?
hmmm well we're in full review season so maybe when it's over later this year? i could stick a comparison in here and there tho is viewers want.
Awesome video I back you 100% 🛠🇨🇦🛠🇨🇦
The OCCC is the Achilles heal of most Sprinter Class Cs. Mercedes missed it's target for outfitters by not offering a stronger diesel engine to carry all this weight around. They had their chance with this new 2019 chassis.
The Engine is not the Problem here plenty powerful enough and in Europe we rarely see a Sprinter with an engine this big! I believe that higher load carring versions of the Sprinter chassis are sold by Mercedes as they can have a GVW of 5.5 [rear whel drive] or 5 tonne[all wheel drive] rating if needed BUT they are a lot more expensive. Perhaps Mercedes will offer the higher load capacity chassis when they start building them in The USA?
@@BulldogBill If you are in Europe, you don't understand the highway and mountain areas of the US. We always want more power in our vehicles! Additionally, Tiffin has a history of outfitting Class As to the max with little consideration for weight because of the mighty diesel engines we have in them in the States. They are recent to the Class Cs and must learn how to get the weight down with their build while keeping the quality up. A hard thing to do.
great discussion guys! keep it up and thanks for keeping it civil!
@@gosman949 Although the UK has no mountain areas worth mentioning that is not true of Europe where Switzerland is ALL Mountains and significant parts of France, Italy, Germany and Austria are also mountainous.
True that we have a much better road system[overall] throughout Europe than the USA in the sense that 98% are paved and we have extensive 3/4 Lane Motorways throughout most European Countries.
Many is the time when, whilst doing 70 mph [legal speed limit] on a motorway, I have been overtaken by fully loaded 2.1 litre Diesel 4 cylinder Sprinter Vans, especially Parcel Delivery ones. Ask Neil if he finds his Sprinter underpowered because Neil's Coach has a smaller Mercedes diesel than the V6.
However I do realise that a lot of the USA is overall at a higher elevation than most of Europe so I am wondering if the loss of power in Engines at higher altitudes is the reson why VERY large engines [especially gas ones] are so popular in the USA?
@@BulldogBill I think it has it's roots in the muscle car era when engines were mighty and the rest of the car was just a place to sit and shift through your manual 5 or 6 speed shifter. America is a huge place and states are quite independent of each other. Here in Texas we still love our gas engines for the wide open range of highways we have here and gas is cheap and pollution not a big problem. Car manufacturers are also getting every once of gas out of the new engines they design. California, has stiffer pollution restrictions and the electric car is becoming popular. It is a mindset that was instilled in us from childhood. But I suspect that we will go the way of Europe in the near future and we all will be driving electric cars or some other propellent someday soon.
I believe that the unit you did the review on was vandalized and sabotaged to make it look bad. Tiffin is known in the RV Industry as putting out a quality RV and they have good quality control. One of the best RV dealers in the Dallas/Ft Worth area is a Tiffin dealer. They stock and sell nothing but the best. If Tiffin had those kind issues they would not be a dealer for them.
Thank you for an excellent review, i agree for that price it's about Quality over quantity, looks nice but the build looks poor, a happy sub :-)
I would not buy it for the weight limits, the fact that everything fits a 6-foot person except the bed, the seating, slide-outs, etc. Thanks for doing the leg work for us!
I applaud your attention to the disconnect between cargo space and legal cargo weight capacity, in this case though I might give them a slight pass. Buried in the fine print I would bet they recommend driving with empty tanks, these are park queens predominantly, they go to places with running water and dumps so most of their customers and most of the trips they go on can be done with empty tanks, or just enough fresh water for a couple flushes and a pot of coffee. They aren't the first choice for regular boondocking and they don't have the suspension for many dirt or forest service roads.
You could be right… However I would argue that if that were the intended use case that they should put in smaller freshwater black water and gray water tanks.
Wow on the OCCC, do you know what the OCCC is on the Winnebago View 24D is?
i do. it is 1167lbs. so much higher.
I have a Tiffin Wayfarer 2020 QW. I think he works for some other RV company and is trying to undermine Tiffin. I have encountered none of the quality problems he mentioned. My OCCC weight is 880 lbs, not 682. Notice he didn't show the actual sticker, just some chart he made up.
Neil, when you recently toured with pleasureway ceo did you ask that the ascent be made all electric, underhood generator , 12 volt AC like coachman galleria and beyond (was crossfit) Atleast, to the abilities of the REVEL?
an all-electric van would be great but is years off. the chassis manufacturers have to get the range up. right now best range is around 150 to 220 miles. that range is ideal for city parcel delivery but not for an RV. they need to get the range up over 300 miles before it becomes a viable rv platform in my book.
@@Ultramobility I meant all electric interior except the engine, although i am sure that all electric will be the future.
Awesome review Neil.. it’s was falling apart already smh
many thanks craig!
I need something to live in full-time
The full length slide adds a lot of extra weight. The TW doesn’t have the OCCC issues. Fully loaded with a 1/3 tank of water we were still under. Handles great because it comes standard with Sumo springs. Sad to seen the quality issues on some of the finished product. I will say that Tiffin is second to none for customer service and we take care of any issues you might have hassle free. You can’t say that about most of the big name manufacturers!
excellent to hear an actual owner's experience! thank you so much for sharing your ownership experience. i'm certain others find it helpful as well!
And when you go to a Tiffin or Wayfarer rally, Bob or Trent Tiffin will bring the techs with them and do free repairs on some items even if out of warranty. And, when you call over to the plant Trent Tiffin will answer the phone or a secretary will and he’ll pick up when she tells him someone is on the phone. I tried to get someone on the phone at Winnebago and was transferred three times and the fourth person in charge of the department I needed never called back. Winnebago customer service is non existent in my opinion. You won’t find a better RV company than Tiffin when it comes to customer service and satisfaction. Mr. Tiffin even gave me his personal cell phone number and told me to call anytime I had a question or issue. Fortunately, I haven’t needed to call Bob Tiffin, his grandson, Trent answers the phone at the Wayfarer plant.
HighDesert Rob ... yep I was at the Rally and this all very true! I know Neal is a big class B (small) RV fan. Just wondering which Sprinter class C he thinks is the best. I looked at many manufacturers before buying a Tiffin and nothing came even close to the overall quality. All RV’s have some issues. None have service like Tiffin.
Great review. I’ve seen others reviews and they totally miss many of the details you covered extremely well. I’m very disappointed in Tiffin by their thinking or lack of it, as a manufacturer here. That’s pretty poor planning and design. I think the designer/engineering team should be sent packing. It’s the most nonsensical creation out there. It reminds me of the marketing adage: “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#*t.” It’s like they jammed features in without forethought of the cost to the carrying capacity. That’s the whole idea of a coach in the first place. And mileage must be horrible! What else can you say but disappointment.
The management that allowed that to go to market need to leave as well!
What a waste of inventory and a sleeping white elephant that dealers will have on their lots when people figure this out. The investors backing this company and the board members better kick some you know what! 🤪
Build it and they will come mentality. These will become Dinosaurs. 😂
hi jeff! thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. i agree that this rig was designed by marketers and not by product planners who would never have allowed it to go to market with that occc rating. i hope that tiffin is reading these comments!
Tiffin is a family owned, private business, so there are no investors and board members. The buck stops with Bob Tiffin, a nice man and the owner. His grandson, Trent Tiffin, another nice southern gentleman runs the Winfield, Alabama Wayfarer factory.
Needs a 2nd SLIDE for the Fridge area
Neil; what is your opinion of slide-outs in general ?
for any rv where you're just parking for some time, putting the slide out and then leaving i think they're fine. they aren't meant to be put out and in many times like you do when you're traveling in something like a van or even some class Cs. it all depends on how you intend to use the rv.
@@Ultramobility I agree. I would rather not have a slide out at all, but I noticed Coach House uses hydraulics to drive them in and out. This may be better than electric motor with small tracks. I may have to go to Florida to take their tour before deciding on an RV.
Great review! Would love a recommendation for a class B that can be purchased off dealer lot (not custom made) that would be a long term, reliable, permanent home for a single female retiree. One bed. I believe people like myself are a huge market and would like to see companies address our special needs.
If money were no object, I would have a van created for me by Advanced RV, but if I had the $200,000 - $300,000 they go for, I could afford a real house.
Need something super-reliable and with as many safety and security features as possible.
living full time out of a class b is hard. i'd personally look for a quality built rig because you're going to be living in it. Maybe a Lexor? Maybe the new Panoramic when it comes here next year? both are higher quality.
Thank you!
Great review. Definitely one to avoid.
I never fill the watertank , I rather take 3 gallons of quell water with us. The reason is that if we climb a mountain the extra weight of the water will give us a hard time in the mountains.
thanks for sharing that ULrike J. Faidt-Berisford!
can’t they convert this to a semi expedition RV.
Do the footrests come out the the theater seats? Like a lazy boy? Would love to see you in the reclined position. No one ever shows that.
sorry didn’t show that.
Where can I purchase a good used wayfarer??
I just refuse to pay that kind of money for something with a 1 year warranty, much less the ridiculous OCC. I can sort of live with the stupid swoopy graphics if the interiors are good, but even though the tiffin is more modern, it's still got too much dark wood in it; at least that model. I wish, wish, wish Pleasureway would build a larger B+ or a C. Their 22' models are just not big enough for what i need. Coach House Platinum III has some appeal as far as build and quality but it's just so darn ugly. I'd love to see you review the Dynamax Isata coaches.
hi robin! thanks for sharing your thoughts on the tiffin and its competitors. i believe they do offer other interior color options but am not sure about any wood choices. i'll put the dynamax on my list! thank you for watching and thank you for being a patreon supporter of the channel!
With such low OCCC how could the RV ever handle and sleep multiple people in the different areas (couch, overhead sleeping, etc.)?
Mike Arnold It can’t.
OCCC can not be right?
Super odd to not have a real dinette in a C this big. :-/
What is the point of a theater seat without being across from a TV?
there is a standard tv located above the entry-way door. sorry i didn't explicitly show it but did make reference to it.
Even if you had more seatbelts, there is no weight allowance left for any passengers!
true that.
Do they build these on the 4x4 chassis at all?
nope unfortunately not.
my wish in the Netherlands: for ages I have been looking for a luxury with only 2 single beds or 1 double bed, lots of space, a bathroom and a good kitchen and solar. all this under 3,000 pounds but still not found am I really demanding so much?
wow, great review, I know this is a year old, thought Tiffin was supposed to be top of the line est for that price? was watching thinking that looks great....till I got to the end of the video. Yikes.
Thanks for watching!
How about doing a review of the American Coach Patriot Model vs Pleasure-Way