This video really shows why so many people love your channel. As you said, there's only so much one person can do and by sharing your projects and your enthusiasm without hiding stuff away for your own profit & patents, you inspire others, they get involved, the end result is far better than any one person could accomplish and everyone benefits from the collaboration.
@@xmysef4920 I also think it says something about the particular community who are interested in this kind of thing. I think we all like the idea of saving money and the environment, and like the idea of the common good. Wouldn't it be just GREAT to be able to completely disconnect from gas/water/elec and be totally self sustaining? What a dream
Thanks so very much for including my design in your testing. I've updated the design for a 3.5" od pipe and printed it but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I like the cowl idea and will add it on when I get the chance.
I love to see and hear that so many people were inspired to build their own versions. This takes iterative design to a whole new level! Thanks Robert for being the spark to light the fire!
You really have started something incredible Rob. It’s wonderful seeing all this collaboration and working together some very clever people. If only there was more of folk working together for common good rather than individuals trying to keep all the good for themselves. Well done Rob
Yup, that is awesome. Hyperbolic cone for me is amazing because it is scallable - you can build some, make it work and then increase the height. Lovely for people with tight budget. Make some, use it, enhance it later :)
So real quick. You could create those hyperbolic funnels with a fabric and cutting the vertical slats the shape and sandwiching the fabric in-between. That way you only need 1 stencil to create the whole thing out of some sort of flat stock such as wood.
Thank you for including the hyperbolic funnel design. I agree that this particular design is a little choked up. In any case, adding a plenum before the turbine would be a pretty easy, and very worthwhile, addition to virtually any system of this sort. Being a big fan (no pun intended) of hovercraft, I would recommend a little thought in that direction in terms of design, as a lot of the research and practice of that is quite applicable here. Thank you for the nice video.
as I have said before this community you have built is awesome. I love watching and Reading the comments. we all benefit from your hard work God bless you and Luke for your channel 👍👍
Thanks for the video. I know these are mostly concept designs, but I wanted to point out to anyone getting tunnel vision that slats that collect the air and push it down from the outside are much more likely to collect rain, dust, birds and other pipe or fan damaging less desirables, as well as air. I've really enjoyed these videos and appreciate your efforts.
Great input of ideas and designs this is how it should be, great channel if I had teachers or lectures like this in the seventies I might have had more interest in school
In a previous video we talked about a 35 degree angle for the Darwin device. I tested to make blades for my wind turbines (HAWT) and place them in a 35 degree angle and it performed better than the previous blades. The angle also allowed for more and blades and I could also increase the chord length to capture more wind at low wind speeds.
Rob, yours is the first ever channel I activated notifications for as many years as I've been on CZcams. Your enthusiasm is infectious. You explain things beautifully and you make tech accessible to normal people. I love what you're doing and long may it run! Do you plan on restocking your online store at any point? I'd like to buy some gear. Left u a comment on LinkedIn too mate. Do you have an apprenticeship program? Hell, I'd come and wind coils for you all day just to get to pick your brains and learn from you.
OMG, you say Robert has a LinkedIn account??? I guess i will have to visit mine too and send him a message :) I agree with you completly. His enthusiasm is like a plague. He is spreading that tinkering bug allover the place and we can all see results in his videos, where he shows other people ideas, modifications and encouraging for more 😀
@@rayg436 Hehehe, sorry for being so giggly, but i think this is one of the most valuable things, to have a good menthor. I remember my second job, where i was a junior electrician and i had an older guy unofficially tutoring me. Wonderful times.
This video really stands out Rob! The fact that you bring so many ideas to light while also enhancing collaboration is what make I and many others love your channel! By the way, do you think maybe adding some sort of ”Catenoid” shape around the wind-catcher would convince more air to get in? Just an idea haha!
That cowel idea is awesome, but rain will bring in water, I’m thinking that design is upside down so that the wind can draft the air out of a roof instead of a Worley bird extractor 👍 such awesome ideas 👍 thanks for sharing 🙏
What I like about Emile's design is that it looks like the sections can be printed horizontally which would make the surface ridges in the correct direction and possibly reduce turbulence.
Hey Rob, to open up the other Tony's model, you could subtract a cube from the top of the funnel, or even mark and cut the segments incrementally on the one already printed, with a pen and scalpel, and graph the change. Layers should peel nicely and that could be interesting to see for the data! The one I made is way more open but not up for such a test without modification. And I'd love to see the rotating cowel design and how that compares to the others! Maybe you should think about getting a sponsor such as a 3d filament company at this point lol
I do really like both the signs but I do see a problem for this type of device but I think the first design you showed off would better fit with this concern; weather Weather in this context would be more around rain and snow however in both it would be understood that you would capture theoretically more wind but you would also have to have a way of dealing with water getting into the system
Hah! I was thinking the same. A nice water collector at the bottom, perheaps with a self regulating valve would be nice. Also a wire mesh around the tower would be good to catch those leaves and other bigger debries. Or inside? With a cleaning slot? Or cyclone separating tube? So many ideas... 😄
As a suggestion to your point about making things when you don’t have a printer, a very simple solution is like we used to do is make things out of balsa wood. You can fashion design prototypes quite quickly starting out at the same point producing the design in E cad if necessary and then building the prototype on the drawing. A very enjoyable pastime in itself and for small designs might even be fairly quick?
I would imagine that a downward series of funnels would also be good at harvesting rain as well as wind. With a vertical arrangement you can keep the electrics completely dry at the top of the construction with the cover
I also like the idea of incorporating solar. Combine the wind capture into a solar chimney. BTW, i think you can put the turbine near the bottom, direct air flow upward. This way you get some generation even on calm days.
Mr Smith reminds me of someone that used to be on British TV a little bit of Jon Pertwee but there is someone else he reminds me of, just can't put my finger on it.
If a small tube was attached from the choke point of the venturi to the center of the funnel, this would lower the pressure and pull more air into the venturi like gas into a carburetor
Love this 'series' and the maker community jumping onto it together. The blue one is very elegant! Maybe create a mold (at a local fablab /makerspace) and you could produce concrete/hempcrete/waste materials disks, would make a great power producing property fence for e.g. Curious about the sounds it produces in real life scale. Howling towers don't go very well with most neighbours :) added the blue one (draft) to thing 5812910
So a thought on this- you know the Dyson air multiplier/bladeless fan concept? I wonder if that could be incorporated into the design, like the rounded top with a sort of chimney down the center, so the incoming air blown down the sides would create a draw down the top and cause more airflow? Don't know, but that might increase the output.
The Dyson Air Multiplier is misleadingly named. It moves a greater volume of air than the original fan at a much lower velocity. Ideally, that means the mass flow is the same. Reality has losses and this means it's not quite as good as it's fan blowing in the open air. For wind turbines, we're looking at converting as much of that mass flow into energy as possible. For small fan blades, that means we want the opposite: a smaller volume of air at a higher velocity. That's why there's a Venturi in the original funnel c: The only benefit of the Dyson design is that there is not a direct line of sight from the fan tips to the user, so it's a bit quieter than the fan in open air. However, the same is largely true of a vintage Vornado and the modern ones use circular fanblade tips that are less efficient, but don't shed the tight tip vortices that make the noise.
I was thinking about the way the old british oast house tops must have worked for the wind to create a vacuum effect to draw air out of the oast house ...perhaps the two ideas could be combined with the generator fan in the middle. (if you can see what I am getting at)
I'd like to see some real world tests with a stepper motor or generator of some sorts connected to the wind pipe. I'm not sure these 100mm models would do much, but a one scaled up to 300mm or more may provide some decent power.
For the cowl idea; why not an internal cowl on a rotating hub? It would be protected from weather events, less parts like the weather vain to get damaged, and may be easier to build without a 3d printer.
These look good, but I think I'm with Rob on the build issue. This would be especially true if you're looking to build one that is larger than what a 3D printer could produce, or that would prove too expensive to print. Something that you can put together with flat pieces of material would make a lot more sense for homemade DIY projects, ideally some sort of plastic that could stand up to the elements/general wear and tear.
Would a more funneled shape be beneficial to possibly get some benefit from the Bernoulli principle - ie. reduce pressure, increase air speed - as in the commercial example you showed?
In weather there’s forces that spins air in a low pressure in a anti-clockwise direction in the northern hemisphere, like a hurricane, maybe if the funnel twists then it might be an improvement?
Fabric version for yachts: first prototype too flexible. Lots of energy lost deforming and flapping around, instead of funnelling the wind. Plan B: rigid rings (junk piston rings, since you ask), cloth baffles.
Do yiu think there's a possibility of adding the golf ball holes tech to increase efficency in these things? The golf ball hole tech r reduces drag thus increasing efficiency. It would obviously need to be dudiciously placed and I suspect a good place to start is in the downward pipe from the Darwin wind catcher.
Looking good. I think you want your pipe flowing air from bottom to top because wind speed higher off the ground is usually greater than at ground level. Also, I see no reason why you couldn't have a fan every 20cm or so which would increase the current output dramatically.
Oh, I know this isn't the video discussing the fan yet but I've just been watching about toroidal propellers being much more efficient for boats and wondered if that would be the case on a wind turbine as well. It was on Ziroth on CZcams.
I wonder if there would be a way to utilize solar to shine on certain parts of those panels to increase its efficiently. EDIT: like black and white on the cowls, to help push pull. :)
What if the areas facing the wind were some sort of tall versions of a tesla valve leading to the funnel? Perhaps vanes on the funnel to induce a vortex?
Porque no los dos? Take the vertically stackable / hand assemblable design of Tony's, but add the internal 'fins' and wide base opening of Emile's. Can't say I've completely thought through the geometry here, but that's got to work right?
Just thinking out loud...why not combine the "Darwin Wind Pipe" with the "Rose Turbine?" Seems like it would be a match made in heaven. =) Also, what if the cone on the "Rose Turbine" modeled a hyperbolic funnel, upside down of course...how much would that impact the rotation of the turbine and could you then modify the inside of the blades to leverage the new cone design?
I disagree that the hyperbolic funnel design should have a larger hole. This design should greatly accelerate the airflow. Imagine instead, scaling it up so that the hole fits your turbine.
I appreciate the looking out for the DIY'er in the sense that 3d printers arent really DIY, a specialized tool, but also what makes them great opening up possiblities once impossible to make any other way, chainmail plastic? That is a drawback but at the same time progress until a global catastrophy happens, and that dude who knew how to use a knife ends up surviving, not the 3d printing nerd, but he eventually dies too and the guy who knew how to make a blade from scratch , (rock smasher) survives, and he too perishes as we go down the line of life forms to the lowest common demoninator that can survive, life will find a way. Yes its a cruel cruel world but thankfuly the universe has options (other worlds) that even have the possiblity for differnt phsyics (eltromagnetic constant was found to be different in a far off galaxy). Phsyics may not be so constant afterall, there could be planet that grows blades and yarn? its not out of the real of possiblity, existance was possible, anything is possible!
Inefficient... both... If you made them so that both could rotate and take in the wind at the same time, they would be more efficient. Standing wind tunnels are ineffective in directing the wind, or at least the power is wasted. Why not take the most preferred structure and make the blades at an angle of 33-45 degrees (the best angle for the incoming air would be 33 degrees), but since the whole sturcture is also wanted to rotate, compared to the horizontal direction, the blades could be turned to an angle of 33-45 degrees to gather power to rotate the whole system and at the same time collect air inside. Inside walls cant be straight, those have to bee like diy barrel wind turbines or savonious model.
Really like the lack of moving parts aspect of these. If you were to scale this up do you think it would be better to just scale as it is or have more smaller vents.
Can someone here please answer a question? Would it be beneficial to have multiple fans in line? I wonder what one of these 5 fans in the line would generate versus 5 separate generators with one single fan each.
That's basically what a multi stage turbine is. The ones they use in power plants, usually run on steam. Each stage needs to have its own blade pitch, diameter, and other properties, but it's certainly possible to scavenge more out of it. There's some very complicated engineering behind that question.
What about several hyperbolic funnels with swirl vanes and openings in middle by shaft for downward flow on the bottom side in a column, on a common shaft straight too motor?🤔👍
humm like having several blades on a shaft running up the center and the Darwin collectors feeding each blade down to one generator. this would give you a better torque for higher generation at low wind speed
Underground 180 incline ina circular style wind tube turbine , connected with amps n volts ,take my idea ur dooomed thus creating never ending windffrom above
Would there be an increased efficiency if the Darwin was hooked up in series with an Aeromine (Ep 1361) so that the generation blades would be able to be loaded heavier and thus more power generated? Cheers from Canada.
Would it be viable to put this on top of your vibrating tube wind turbine idea by placing wind catching vanes on the artificial muscle inside the tube?
I wonder why there's no flap to avoid air to climb up and escape from the back. Is it a flaw or it's not there because it's a prototype? *edit* ah I just heard about the cowl to block the back. *edit* Now I think of some sort of ram air duct ibstead of the cowl. I think I'm day dreaming.
I'm wondering if the toroidal propellers have any application for (potentially silent) wind turbines? I've seen a lot of videos Pop up recently of people making drone propellers based on MIT research
Could you incorporate Bernoulli's principle and have the required slots in the pipe leading to the generator to pull in extra airflow. Dammit I posted too fast :)
Nice. But I notice you always use just an led or measure the output voltage. The best way to measure the power output is use a volts verse amps graph using a variable load. Open voltage measurement is a no load maximum rpm measurement only and short circuit current measurement is the stall rpm. A few different load resistance readings will give the true usable output power readings and hence a better efficiency rating for a given air flow or propeller design or generator build for a given wind flow. In the absence of a laser rpm meter you can use the voltmeter. First measure open load voltage. Record it on a V/I graph. Then with a variable load with ammeter in series, run again and adjust load till 75% of open load voltage is read on the Volt meter. Read the amps and record both on a graph. Run again and reduce the load resistance till 50% of the open load volts is read on the volt meter. Read the amps and record both readings the graph. Do the same for 25% of open load volts. The graph can then be converted to watts and hence efficiency for each propeller or drawin pipe or generator development etc. I have been using this for years and has always been a good indicator of improvements or getting worse for me.
Yes. Yes! A proper power curve. I’m really surprised Rob hasn’t done this. Your analog method is great. A slightly more complex system of variable dump load and power output could simply use a transistor with base current / voltage controlled by a PC or even Raspberry Pi using the DAC/ADC, and also measuring drop over the collector current on a dummy load. Add an RPM counter, program in a test routine, and graph the output. Then at last we’d get to see true output and small differences between these devices.
@@ianclarke8821 Yep a simple raspberry could do a quick automatic plot. Back in the days of the P3 computers I made a parallel port pcb setup and wrote a Qbasic program to do all this. Now a days I just use a simple setup as mentioned above. It's quick and can get good results even without using my laser rpm meter. It may be off by a few % but it give a good directing where I'm heading. My load resistors are actually nothing more than a large panel of 1 ohm resistors of 5 watt (100 of them ) in 10 rows all connected in series. They are mounted by being twisted around nails banged into the wooden panel. I then just take the one amp meter lead to a nail and read the voltage if not half I go to the next nail until I get the reading I want. It's surpringly quick to do. I'm sure Robert could catch onto this one easily.
@@bartronicsecurity very good! Ah.. QB45 was a flavour I used in ‘83! I interfaced our pathology analysers on the 232 ports to capture and print results off. Did similar things to you with a zx81 and 8 bit home built ADC. Writing a graphing program in 1k of RAM was a challenge! Anyway, you’re spot on. All these spinning fans lighting an LED… could be 3mA 2.8 volts, could be 50mA 2v … could be just forward bias lit with Amps to spare - who knows? We’d like to know!
The funnel shouldn't have the ribs, because it's power, speed and torque come from the whirlwind, whirlpool, cyclone, etc. Edit: Even Dyson vacuum cleaners prove that.
If you're going to the bother of putting a cowl with a fin on the black vertical sectioned version, then why not make the whole thing rotatable and omit the rear sections?
🤔An Invisible Wall ? Nah, I don't see that working.😋 What *is* an "invisible wall" ? Please don't laugh, but when I googled it I couldn't get past movie references, video games and quantum physics. 'Tis way beyond me !
Couldn’t electrical planes put a few of these on each wing or along the lines along the body to stick into the jet stream to run generators to in theory endless flight
That'd be a perpetual motion machine and breaks the laws of physics. They could use them to generate electricity but it would increase drag requiring the engines to be throttled higher therefore using more fuel and reducing efficiency. In reality these sort of generators would be best used in a stationary setup in a location with naturally sourced and continually moving airflow. That would get you your "free" energy.
Why the hell are all you people ignoring the hot air rising principal? Why don't you flip those parabolic cones to send the air upwards? Every time air hits a surface it creates friction and therefore heat! You are fighting the law of physics by trying to force air downwards and expect it to turn 180 degrees upwards! You are all so so wrong! You are ignoring the basic principles of motion, for want of the right word!
Rob! What is going on here? Those "hyperbolic" shapes introduce a massive amount of "drag"! That is, reduced efficiency. Ok, we're not trying for ultimate efficiency. What are we doing? Protecting birds from flying into the blades of a "regular" wind turbine? If that is the goal, then great. I have to mention this too, when you placed that plastic thing in the wind, sure it works, but you didn't test the out put. This has gone off the rails of logic. Very disappointed Rob, sorry. Your work in the past has always been based on science, these plastic printed thingys are simply not advancing any science. Maybe it's a way to get people interested in wind energy, that's fine too. But again, where is the science?
This video really shows why so many people love your channel. As you said, there's only so much one person can do and by sharing your projects and your enthusiasm without hiding stuff away for your own profit & patents, you inspire others, they get involved, the end result is far better than any one person could accomplish and everyone benefits from the collaboration.
This really speaks about how humans are meant to be social creatures and help each other
Well said
@@xmysef4920 I also think it says something about the particular community who are interested in this kind of thing.
I think we all like the idea of saving money and the environment, and like the idea of the common good.
Wouldn't it be just GREAT to be able to completely disconnect from gas/water/elec and be totally self sustaining? What a dream
Team work is dream work! Well said!!
Thanks so very much for including my design in your testing. I've updated the design for a 3.5" od pipe and printed it but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I like the cowl idea and will add it on when I get the chance.
I love to see and hear that so many people were inspired to build their own versions. This takes iterative design to a whole new level! Thanks Robert for being the spark to light the fire!
You really have started something incredible Rob. It’s wonderful seeing all this collaboration and working together some very clever people. If only there was more of folk working together for common good rather than individuals trying to keep all the good for themselves. Well done Rob
Loving all those modular designs 🎉
Yup, that is awesome. Hyperbolic cone for me is amazing because it is scallable - you can build some, make it work and then increase the height. Lovely for people with tight budget. Make some, use it, enhance it later :)
An inspiration for all. I love your ideas suggestions and constructions.
So real quick. You could create those hyperbolic funnels with a fabric and cutting the vertical slats the shape and sandwiching the fabric in-between. That way you only need 1 stencil to create the whole thing out of some sort of flat stock such as wood.
Thank you for including the hyperbolic funnel design. I agree that this particular design is a little choked up. In any case, adding a plenum before the turbine would be a pretty easy, and very worthwhile, addition to virtually any system of this sort. Being a big fan (no pun intended) of hovercraft, I would recommend a little thought in that direction in terms of design, as a lot of the research and practice of that is quite applicable here.
Thank you for the nice video.
Thank you. 👍🌞🐝
as I have said before this community you have built is awesome. I love watching and Reading the comments. we all benefit from your hard work God bless you and Luke for your channel 👍👍
Great video as always!!!
The bees and wasps will love your design
I think that the airflow rate might be to fast for them they like shelter for the wind and rain
Happy to see the collaboration! Let’s open source the future!
Rob, you and the community has blown me away. No wind pun intended yet applied.
Thanks for the video. I know these are mostly concept designs, but I wanted to point out to anyone getting tunnel vision that slats that collect the air and push it down from the outside are much more likely to collect rain, dust, birds and other pipe or fan damaging less desirables, as well as air. I've really enjoyed these videos and appreciate your efforts.
Great input of ideas and designs this is how it should be, great channel if I had teachers or lectures like this in the seventies I might have had more interest in school
In a previous video we talked about a 35 degree angle for the Darwin device. I tested to make blades for my wind turbines (HAWT) and place them in a 35 degree angle and it performed better than the previous blades. The angle also allowed for more and blades and I could also increase the chord length to capture more wind at low wind speeds.
Rob, yours is the first ever channel I activated notifications for as many years as I've been on CZcams.
Your enthusiasm is infectious. You explain things beautifully and you make tech accessible to normal people.
I love what you're doing and long may it run!
Do you plan on restocking your online store at any point? I'd like to buy some gear. Left u a comment on LinkedIn too mate.
Do you have an apprenticeship program? Hell, I'd come and wind coils for you all day just to get to pick your brains and learn from you.
OMG, you say Robert has a LinkedIn account???
I guess i will have to visit mine too and send him a message :)
I agree with you completly. His enthusiasm is like a plague. He is spreading that tinkering bug allover the place and we can all see results in his videos, where he shows other people ideas, modifications and encouraging for more 😀
Luke is a lucky young man in that he has Robert to learn from and ask for help as needed
@@rayg436 Hehehe, sorry for being so giggly, but i think this is one of the most valuable things, to have a good menthor. I remember my second job, where i was a junior electrician and i had an older guy unofficially tutoring me. Wonderful times.
This video really stands out Rob! The fact that you bring so many ideas to light while also enhancing collaboration is what make I and many others love your channel!
By the way, do you think maybe adding some sort of ”Catenoid” shape around the wind-catcher would convince more air to get in? Just an idea haha!
That cowel idea is awesome, but rain will bring in water, I’m thinking that design is upside down so that the wind can draft the air out of a roof instead of a Worley bird extractor 👍 such awesome ideas 👍 thanks for sharing 🙏
What I like about Emile's design is that it looks like the sections can be printed horizontally which would make the surface ridges in the correct direction and possibly reduce turbulence.
Great stuff, really enjoyed the video, and really enjoyed getting involved, and appreciate the great feedback.
😍🙏😍 beautiful works😍
Hey Rob, to open up the other Tony's model, you could subtract a cube from the top of the funnel, or even mark and cut the segments incrementally on the one already printed, with a pen and scalpel, and graph the change. Layers should peel nicely and that could be interesting to see for the data! The one I made is way more open but not up for such a test without modification. And I'd love to see the rotating cowel design and how that compares to the others! Maybe you should think about getting a sponsor such as a 3d filament company at this point lol
Space magnets.... Were waiting Rob! Lol
I do really like both the signs but I do see a problem for this type of device but I think the first design you showed off would better fit with this concern; weather
Weather in this context would be more around rain and snow however in both it would be understood that you would capture theoretically more wind but you would also have to have a way of dealing with water getting into the system
Hah! I was thinking the same. A nice water collector at the bottom, perheaps with a self regulating valve would be nice. Also a wire mesh around the tower would be good to catch those leaves and other bigger debries. Or inside? With a cleaning slot?
Or cyclone separating tube? So many ideas... 😄
As a suggestion to your point about making things when you don’t have a printer, a very simple solution is like we used to do is make things out of balsa wood.
You can fashion design prototypes quite quickly starting out at the same point producing the design in E cad if necessary and then building the prototype on the drawing. A very enjoyable pastime in itself and for small designs might even be fairly quick?
I would imagine that a downward series of funnels would also be good at harvesting rain as well as wind. With a vertical arrangement you can keep the electrics completely dry at the top of the construction with the cover
Coanda effect!?
Good one Rob
Stick a sink plunger on the front of Tony's design and you got yourself a Dalek.
I also like the idea of incorporating solar. Combine the wind capture into a solar chimney. BTW, i think you can put the turbine near the bottom, direct air flow upward.
This way you get some generation even on calm days.
Mr Smith reminds me of someone that used to be on British TV a little bit of Jon Pertwee but there is someone else he reminds me of, just can't put my finger on it.
Brilliant mate! Thanks 👍
If a small tube was attached from the choke point of the venturi to the center of the funnel, this would lower the pressure and pull more air into the venturi like gas into a carburetor
Love the hyperbolic funnel idea, almost as if someone has picked up on the concept of lamina flow.
Only thing is, always suck, never blow!
Love this 'series' and the maker community jumping onto it together. The blue one is very elegant! Maybe create a mold (at a local fablab /makerspace) and you could produce concrete/hempcrete/waste materials disks, would make a great power producing property fence for e.g. Curious about the sounds it produces in real life scale. Howling towers don't go very well with most neighbours :) added the blue one (draft) to thing 5812910
So a thought on this- you know the Dyson air multiplier/bladeless fan concept? I wonder if that could be incorporated into the design, like the rounded top with a sort of chimney down the center, so the incoming air blown down the sides would create a draw down the top and cause more airflow? Don't know, but that might increase the output.
The Dyson Air Multiplier is misleadingly named. It moves a greater volume of air than the original fan at a much lower velocity. Ideally, that means the mass flow is the same. Reality has losses and this means it's not quite as good as it's fan blowing in the open air. For wind turbines, we're looking at converting as much of that mass flow into energy as possible. For small fan blades, that means we want the opposite: a smaller volume of air at a higher velocity. That's why there's a Venturi in the original funnel c:
The only benefit of the Dyson design is that there is not a direct line of sight from the fan tips to the user, so it's a bit quieter than the fan in open air. However, the same is largely true of a vintage Vornado and the modern ones use circular fanblade tips that are less efficient, but don't shed the tight tip vortices that make the noise.
Seen the turbine they've used at Skegness pier, looks very similar to this.
Impressive but will also be very effective at catching rain - drainage required?
Looks like people are making progress on this idea.
Awesome designs, though I do prefer the idea of straight parts as you could just tear apart an old door or pallet and make a large one very cheaply
I think just an ordinary canvas windsock of decreasing diameter, bent gradually downwards, would do the job just as well and be a lot simpler
Darwin...survival of the community brainstorm
That blue assembly looks a bit like a dalek head.
I was thinking about the way the old british oast house tops must have worked for the wind to create a vacuum effect to draw air out of the oast house ...perhaps the two ideas could be combined with the generator fan in the middle. (if you can see what I am getting at)
I'd like to see some real world tests with a stepper motor or generator of some sorts connected to the wind pipe. I'm not sure these 100mm models would do much, but a one scaled up to 300mm or more may provide some decent power.
For the cowl idea; why not an internal cowl on a rotating hub? It would be protected from weather events, less parts like the weather vain to get damaged, and may be easier to build without a 3d printer.
W while ago I saw system it was on the size of the floor and you have a hyperbolic shape from the ceiling down and the wind is directed in one place
3:20 you really need a cooperation with Ivan miranda it would be amazing
These look good, but I think I'm with Rob on the build issue. This would be especially true if you're looking to build one that is larger than what a 3D printer could produce, or that would prove too expensive to print.
Something that you can put together with flat pieces of material would make a lot more sense for homemade DIY projects, ideally some sort of plastic that could stand up to the elements/general wear and tear.
Would a more funneled shape be beneficial to possibly get some benefit from the Bernoulli principle - ie. reduce pressure, increase air speed - as in the commercial example you showed?
I'm working on a cone inside the collector with that in mind.
Ive been wanting to make a hyperbolic funnel for 1/64 diecast cars! Can't wait to check out 1490
In weather there’s forces that spins air in a low pressure in a anti-clockwise direction in the northern hemisphere, like a hurricane, maybe if the funnel twists then it might be an improvement?
Fabric version for yachts: first prototype too flexible. Lots of energy lost deforming and flapping around, instead of funnelling the wind.
Plan B: rigid rings (junk piston rings, since you ask), cloth baffles.
Great video Robert. Have you considered stacking the generators?
Do yiu think there's a possibility of adding the golf ball holes tech to increase efficency in these things?
The golf ball hole tech r reduces drag thus increasing efficiency. It would obviously need to be dudiciously placed and I suspect a good place to start is in the downward pipe from the Darwin wind catcher.
Looking good. I think you want your pipe flowing air from bottom to top because wind speed higher off the ground is usually greater than at ground level. Also, I see no reason why you couldn't have a fan every 20cm or so which would increase the current output dramatically.
Oh, I know this isn't the video discussing the fan yet but I've just been watching about toroidal propellers being much more efficient for boats and wondered if that would be the case on a wind turbine as well. It was on Ziroth on CZcams.
I wonder if there would be a way to utilize solar to shine on certain parts of those panels to increase its efficiently. EDIT: like black and white on the cowls, to help push pull. :)
4:33 so a regular Wind turbine tower could be used and on top this Wind catchers
What if the areas facing the wind were some sort of tall versions of a tesla valve leading to the funnel? Perhaps vanes on the funnel to induce a vortex?
Really enjoy this, where can I get Tinker CAD files. Gb
Porque no los dos?
Take the vertically stackable / hand assemblable design of Tony's, but add the internal 'fins' and wide base opening of Emile's. Can't say I've completely thought through the geometry here, but that's got to work right?
Just thinking out loud...why not combine the "Darwin Wind Pipe" with the "Rose Turbine?" Seems like it would be a match made in heaven. =) Also, what if the cone on the "Rose Turbine" modeled a hyperbolic funnel, upside down of course...how much would that impact the rotation of the turbine and could you then modify the inside of the blades to leverage the new cone design?
Could it be used as a roof ridge turbine with the fan at the edge of the roof for ease of maintenance.
If a person couldn't make a smooth hyperbolic curve, maybe they could make a segmented curve?
How much speed increase would you get if you stacked venturis?
I disagree that the hyperbolic funnel design should have a larger hole. This design should greatly accelerate the airflow. Imagine instead, scaling it up so that the hole fits your turbine.
A good day to you sir, great channel :)
please explain again why you did not show the output of the blue DWP design? DVD:)
I appreciate the looking out for the DIY'er in the sense that 3d printers arent really DIY, a specialized tool, but also what makes them great opening up possiblities once impossible to make any other way, chainmail plastic? That is a drawback but at the same time progress until a global catastrophy happens, and that dude who knew how to use a knife ends up surviving, not the 3d printing nerd, but he eventually dies too and the guy who knew how to make a blade from scratch , (rock smasher) survives, and he too perishes as we go down the line of life forms to the lowest common demoninator that can survive, life will find a way. Yes its a cruel cruel world but thankfuly the universe has options (other worlds) that even have the possiblity for differnt phsyics (eltromagnetic constant was found to be different in a far off galaxy). Phsyics may not be so constant afterall, there could be planet that grows blades and yarn? its not out of the real of possiblity, existance was possible, anything is possible!
Inefficient... both... If you made them so that both could rotate and take in the wind at the same time, they would be more efficient. Standing wind tunnels are ineffective in directing the wind, or at least the power is wasted. Why not take the most preferred structure and make the blades at an angle of 33-45 degrees (the best angle for the incoming air would be 33 degrees), but since the whole sturcture is also wanted to rotate, compared to the horizontal direction, the blades could be turned to an angle of 33-45 degrees to gather power to rotate the whole system and at the same time collect air inside. Inside walls cant be straight, those have to bee like diy barrel wind turbines or savonious model.
Would this work as a potential blower for the rocket stove?
Really like the lack of moving parts aspect of these. If you were to scale this up do you think it would be better to just scale as it is or have more smaller vents.
Can someone here please answer a question? Would it be beneficial to have multiple fans in line? I wonder what one of these 5 fans in the line would generate versus 5 separate generators with one single fan each.
That's basically what a multi stage turbine is. The ones they use in power plants, usually run on steam. Each stage needs to have its own blade pitch, diameter, and other properties, but it's certainly possible to scavenge more out of it. There's some very complicated engineering behind that question.
What about several hyperbolic funnels with swirl vanes and openings in middle by shaft for downward flow on the bottom side in a column, on a common shaft straight too motor?🤔👍
humm like having several blades on a shaft running up the center and the Darwin collectors feeding each blade down to one generator. this would give you a better torque for higher generation at low wind speed
@@rayg436 Thanks for the reponse, and exactly.
Robert, what do you think is the best efficient wind turbine?
Reminded me of the traditional Arab wind towers, that were used for "air conditioning" buildings.
Underground 180 incline ina circular style wind tube turbine , connected with amps n volts ,take my idea ur dooomed thus creating never ending windffrom above
Did you ever get anywhere or do any further testing of the Liberator RS you were sent from the USA Robert?? Be great to have an update??
Would there be an increased efficiency if the Darwin was hooked up in series with an Aeromine (Ep 1361) so that the generation blades would be able to be loaded heavier and thus more power generated? Cheers from Canada.
Would it be viable to put this on top of your vibrating tube wind turbine idea by placing wind catching vanes on the artificial muscle inside the tube?
I wonder why there's no flap to avoid air to climb up and escape from the back. Is it a flaw or it's not there because it's a prototype?
*edit* ah I just heard about the cowl to block the back.
*edit* Now I think of some sort of ram air duct ibstead of the cowl. I think I'm day dreaming.
I'm wondering if the toroidal propellers have any application for (potentially silent) wind turbines? I've seen a lot of videos Pop up recently of people making drone propellers based on MIT research
Could you incorporate Bernoulli's principle and have the required slots in the pipe leading to the generator to pull in extra airflow. Dammit I posted too fast :)
So it's like the Badgir?
Cowl would need a less aerodynamic backside
If we can make a generator we asks to make the plant together before
Nice. But I notice you always use just an led or measure the output voltage. The best way to measure the power output is use a volts verse amps graph using a variable load. Open voltage measurement is a no load maximum rpm measurement only and short circuit current measurement is the stall rpm. A few different load resistance readings will give the true usable output power readings and hence a better efficiency rating for a given air flow or propeller design or generator build for a given wind flow. In the absence of a laser rpm meter you can use the voltmeter. First measure open load voltage. Record it on a V/I graph. Then with a variable load with ammeter in series, run again and adjust load till 75% of open load voltage is read on the Volt meter. Read the amps and record both on a graph. Run again and reduce the load resistance till 50% of the open load volts is read on the volt meter. Read the amps and record both readings the graph. Do the same for 25% of open load volts. The graph can then be converted to watts and hence efficiency for each propeller or drawin pipe or generator development etc. I have been using this for years and has always been a good indicator of improvements or getting worse for me.
Yes. Yes!
A proper power curve. I’m really surprised Rob hasn’t done this. Your analog method is great. A slightly more complex system of variable dump load and power output could simply use a transistor with base current / voltage controlled by a PC or even Raspberry Pi using the DAC/ADC, and also measuring drop over the collector current on a dummy load. Add an RPM counter, program in a test routine, and graph the output. Then at last we’d get to see true output and small differences between these devices.
@@ianclarke8821 Yep a simple raspberry could do a quick automatic plot. Back in the days of the P3 computers I made a parallel port pcb setup and wrote a Qbasic program to do all this. Now a days I just use a simple setup as mentioned above. It's quick and can get good results even without using my laser rpm meter. It may be off by a few % but it give a good directing where I'm heading. My load resistors are actually nothing more than a large panel of 1 ohm resistors of 5 watt (100 of them ) in 10 rows all connected in series. They are mounted by being twisted around nails banged into the wooden panel. I then just take the one amp meter lead to a nail and read the voltage if not half I go to the next nail until I get the reading I want. It's surpringly quick to do. I'm sure Robert could catch onto this one easily.
@@bartronicsecurity very good! Ah.. QB45 was a flavour I used in ‘83! I interfaced our pathology analysers on the 232 ports to capture and print results off. Did similar things to you with a zx81 and 8 bit home built ADC. Writing a graphing program in 1k of RAM was a challenge!
Anyway, you’re spot on. All these spinning fans lighting an LED… could be 3mA 2.8 volts, could be 50mA 2v … could be just forward bias lit with Amps to spare - who knows? We’d like to know!
@@ianclarke8821 AH the ZX81. My first computer. I'm guessing you also 6+ decades on the planet?
Could you bang a Tesla Air Generator (Nov 5, 2015) on the air output and use CDs as the disks? What do I know! Nowt.
Oh wait I feel sarcasm coming on, further on in the series if you attached an old bag to the unit you could name it the old windbag Generator 🤣
you did not test the blue one
The funnel shouldn't have the ribs, because it's power, speed and torque come from the whirlwind, whirlpool, cyclone, etc.
Edit: Even Dyson vacuum cleaners prove that.
If you're going to the bother of putting a cowl with a fin on the black vertical sectioned version, then why not make the whole thing rotatable and omit the rear sections?
Not only do I not have or afford a 3d printer I don't have the computer knowledge or computer to operate it
🤔An Invisible Wall ? Nah, I don't see that working.😋
What *is* an "invisible wall" ?
Please don't laugh, but when I googled it I couldn't get past movie references, video games and quantum physics. 'Tis way beyond me !
Couldn’t electrical planes put a few of these on each wing or along the lines along the body to stick into the jet stream to run generators to in theory endless flight
That'd be a perpetual motion machine and breaks the laws of physics. They could use them to generate electricity but it would increase drag requiring the engines to be throttled higher therefore using more fuel and reducing efficiency. In reality these sort of generators would be best used in a stationary setup in a location with naturally sourced and continually moving airflow. That would get you your "free" energy.
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Why the hell are all you people ignoring the hot air rising principal? Why don't you flip those parabolic cones to send the air upwards? Every time air hits a surface it creates friction and therefore heat! You are fighting the law of physics by trying to force air downwards and expect it to turn 180 degrees upwards! You are all so so wrong! You are ignoring the basic principles of motion, for want of the right word!
Rob! What is going on here? Those "hyperbolic" shapes introduce a massive amount of "drag"! That is, reduced efficiency. Ok, we're not trying for ultimate efficiency. What are we doing? Protecting birds from flying into the blades of a "regular" wind turbine? If that is the goal, then great. I have to mention this too, when you placed that plastic thing in the wind, sure it works, but you didn't test the out put. This has gone off the rails of logic. Very disappointed Rob, sorry. Your work in the past has always been based on science, these plastic printed thingys are simply not advancing any science. Maybe it's a way to get people interested in wind energy, that's fine too. But again, where is the science?
Only three linear sections are useful, you could make only three and add a fin and the materials half. Like a rotating lollypop