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1874 Maglev Versus Thrust Bearing
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2023
- Don't forget to check out Luke's channel found here / @tntomnibus
If you want to have a look at those special videos become a member and join by clicking this link / @thinkingandtinkering
Don't forget that you can buy my books and materials for your own experiments including our conductive inks at secure.working... - and for the many who have asked, yes, you can also donate to further our work, again through the shop.
Another step forward in the evolution of this turbine. Loving it.
cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Would this work for the ugrinsky?
Food for thought, you are always making my brain wander in possibilities. Ty.
Gosh Rob! This project is really turning out! I've actually got a pair of ring magnets I scavenged from an old physics toy, I might be able to throw something like this together with them =)
nice
Awesome video, I've heard of these but it is a game changer to actually see it demonstrated in such an elegant and accessible way.
cheers mate - I a glad yo enjoyed it
I made a high speed tubine mounted onto an arrow for testing purposes, and it was soo good that it started spinning in my hand just carrying it around when it was windy outside. I turned it into a warhead but found very few people who loved the idea, none actually.
Wow, just wow!! Of course, this is so obvious once you show us. Thanks!
lol - cheers mate
Great to see Robert! Looking forward to a side by side power test.
cheers mate
Welcome to the grass growing championship finals.
It appears the Kentucky blue grass is our champion!!!
😂🤣😂🤣😂
Seriously though, this is actually pretty cool. I always thought maglev was more finicky and complicated than this. Great to see a homemade/diy project like this. Awesome content as usual! We really appreciate you! (And Luke!)
lol - and no - at it's basics it is very simple
That laugh always gets me Robert, keep the show always alive…..😂
Really great review of the magnetic bearing, thank you for making this video. I actually discovered the issue discussed re: Earnshaw's Theorem, when we tried to do passive levitation for a science project, but I never knew what it was called! So, thank you for providing that crucial detail. Interestingly, as you mentioned, if you rotate the magnet, it stabilizes the issue... awesome video.
I am really glad you liked the video mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering I see you also noticed some fellow reposted this entire video without asking! So, yea, I reported him.
I am grateful to watch this again tho. It is a good reminder of the amazing coolness of this type of magnetic bearing.
I just realized that a vertical windmill would greatly benefit with this method.
Hmm...isn't the thrust bearing version also fighting the cogging generated by the coil?
The coil is probably not short circuited, and it is very thin wire, so I guess that there will be some eddy losses but not much...
no
you are spot on mate
Awesome as usual.
cheers mate
You know you are watching a nerdy fella when a spinning fan make him laugh with joy
I'm glad to see you're still plugging away.
Keep up the good work brother.😊
cheers mate
Great demonstration!
cheers mate
Fantastic Robert. You never cease to amaze.
wow - cheers mate
OMG!!! SORCERY!!!
All kidding aside, I have to try this. I notice the rotor is sitting fairly high. It will probably come down a bit with the turbine added, but if it is still a bit high, my thoughts would be to extend the shaft below the stator a bit. The bottom magnet could then be slid down to adjust the levitation height, then fixed into place when the optimum height is reached.
I have already started 3d printing my first Savonius wind turbine, and I will be printing more in "grass green" PETG (so they blend in and don't attract too much unwanted attention from the HOA).
I've seen a lot of cool ideas on this channel, but these little Savonius wind turbines are the first one I have actually started building in earnest.
I was thinking along these lines, balancing everything to get the generator magnets nice and close to the coil should be doable, but what happens when the rotor is wet? Will the added weight be too much? I think you'd need to balance it wet and accept it might be a little higher in the dry?
burn him lolol - a circle on the axel will go a long way to helping mate and I am glad to hear you are building
I once, and only once, watched this old tony spin a metal cube for nearly nine minutes.
Those are the same ones I got :) glad to see u took the recommendation 🙏
cheers mate
You pretty much answered my silent question from yesterday. After your previous. My magnetic babies are on the way :-D This will be great on my roof.
awesome mate
Hi Rob a video from me is coming out today of something you have inspired me to make. I love your channel and we think alike alot I'm a doer too ! Your linked in the video hope you don't mind but I thought I owe you that much as you have been my inspiration for quite a few ideas mate 👍🏻
oh wow - mind - not at all mate - I am honoured you thought to do that and really appreciative that you did - I will jump over later and check it out - cheers mate
Thank you so much again Robert!!
I've been toying with this idea myself recently,
as I have just got my hands on a few ring magnets!!
Definitely a lot of potential here,
~ I think that I'm going to try this one,,, with a serpentine coil for a wind turbine!!
I Really liked the Flat -Feathered one that you have been working on!!
(Still looking for someone who has a 3D printer, who is keen to make a few quid to make the parts for me!!)
Thank you so much, Again, for the Inspiration
and for your Enthusiasm,~Its infectious!!
Namasté 🙏
Andréa and Critters. ...XxX...
nice one Andrea - I am just working on an idea you may find super helpful for that
Awesome again, Robert!!
cheers mate
I used to play with ring magnets as a child, stacking them on a pencil and watching the levitation. Great idea using them for bearings.
Might be time to revisit the Windwall with all these new 3d printed prototypes. Magnetic bearing, generation on the rim and maybe even contra rotating in the same windwall?
my thoughts exactly mate!
Off topic, since I don't have a way to share my rocket stove design to you I'll try to describe it here. You need two tubes of chimney flue that fit over each other. The inner tube sits lower, so it grabs the flame, smoke, etc from the burning fuel. The outer tube is offset height wise to grab air from the surroundings. What happens is, this oxygenated air gets superheated as it passes through the sleeve. Since it sits taller than the inner tube, this heated oxygenated air meets the smoke and licks of flame at the top of the inner tube. Hey presto, it ignites any unburnt fumes. And you get a gas flame at this juncture. If you consider flames in the inner flue travel , say, 30cm, and you offset the outer tube 10cm you've got a brilliant rocket stove. Ive been using my design for 10+ years. It's awesome.
You can fill it with scraps , logs, twigs, whatever. To the height of the inner tube. Light it on top. It burns like a candle.
And at the base, lift it off the ground some 8 cm. So air can feed into the inner tube from below. There's an optimum height for this, since you want the core to stay hot and not be affected by wind. Some rocks ought to do. Or , in my case, I leave 1/3 of the inner tube open at the bottom, cut away.
Make a video, upload it to your channel, and post the link...
I am interested in seeing it...
The cutaway of the inner tube at the bottom should ideally be the same surface area as the top of the inner tube. Air in = air out. If that clarifies that
One last clarification. The diameter of the outer tube is a few mm greater than the inner tube. A slither of a gap. The tubes telescope over each other.
Brilliant. i'm not even slightly versed on anything you have presented , but ive recently reviewed how i may use some of your ideas on wind generated power production for my sail boat. starting with the mechanical muscle. Every week since ,ive been distracted by the next application. Wow !
nice lol - good luck with it al mate - I am fascinated by what you are doing if I am honest lol
Magnetic bearings how very majestic and off the charts for efficiency love this channel
Glad you read my last comment in your last video and did this 😊. I genuinely enjoy your content. Keep up the good work.👍
cheers mate
these are the best videos on you tube , never learnt so much. will have to send a pic / video of the one ive built/ building, with the same concept magnet bearing . its similar to the vawt 1kw one you made. but with curved wind deflectors all around it to deflect the wind one way onto the blades and floating on magnet bearing. just making the axial flux motor at the mo so should be ready to test at the weekend , then next project is a water wheel from a exercise bike
nice mate - I look forward to seeing it
Can't wait to see it's potential in action!!
nice
I'm glad you took up the obvious idea of demonstrating a maglev bearing to reduce friction. Perhaps you can reduce it further by using 2 tubular opposing magnets on the spindle too. Look forward to the next iteration lol
mcate
Oh... that solves one of my major hurdles! Just finishing up my re-design and installing of my home heating, and had turned my thoughts to electricity; bearings have been bothering me. A whole new avenue to go down. It seems I'll be starting experimention at a different point. Down side, I suppose, is that a good bit of concept sketches and notes will end up in the box of fire starter...
You know heat has a negative effect on magnets,,,,,,
awesome mate
Thank you for Earnshaw's theorem and active anti wobble. That it could compensate for a less than ideal rotor was interesting.
Always wondered why they are not used for ships thrust bearing.
I know the first bearing died due to friction and not induced eddy currents in the serpentine winding.
Please keep the education coming sir.
I am glad you do mate a lot seem to have missed the simple point if you don't connect the wires there is no current flow
I would love to see how the magnetic bearing would spin in a vacuum environment. Good day Sir too.
lol - I just need a big enough vacuum chamber mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering I should of mentioned it would not be easy. Peace fella.
Great video, many thanks Robert.
Brilliant as usual, sir. Thank you.
cheers mate
I've played with that in the past, it's a fun little gadget.
The nice thing with this design is that if you put a balanced ring weight that matches the OD of the flat base on it, the flywheel affect will cause it to spin much much longer.
cheers mate
This is exactly what I was looking for, great demonstration. Do you happen to have the stl files for the maglev bearing ?
Watching the various Voltron pieces slowly form into some mega-project is really satisfying.
thank you mate
So cool!!! I’d like to see how that works with your rotating energy storage device. I would think the low losses should make a material difference in round-trip efficiency.
for sure mate
Absolutely brilliant, thanks much
I have been working on a similar project, just horizontal. Mags on the axle with mags holding it up. Rotors of coils-magnets-coils, etc so both the magnets and the coils are each acted upon from both sides.
interesting - nice one mate
Rob, I came across an interesting IC yesterday that would really suit this project. It is the LTC3588 which takes a small, fluctuating AC input and produces a regulated, constant voltage output with a small parts count.
thank you mate - nice pointer - I will look it up - cheers
@@ThinkingandTinkering not a problem. Linear Technology make a small demo board that would make it easy for you to do a quick test with alligator clips, etc. The demo board is Part No "Demo 1459A".
Also, a couple of other ideas for you:
1. I understand the updraft against building walls focuses and accelerates the ambient wind speed.
2. If so, a fan-shaped housing over the turbine might further concentrate the air flow.
Keep up the good work!
Looks like a good fit for that clapboard vent sided vertical axis set up you had.
yep
Lovely. Waiting for that to quit spinning gave me time to read some comments!😁
lol - nice one
I've seen videos here on CZcams where pucks of bismuth have been used to stabilize the magnetic field to allow stable levitation at room temperature without the use of electromagnets or rotation. It's a levitation of just a few millimeters, but interesting all the same. I've ordered and received a couple pounds of bismuth metal, so I think today I'll melt some down, form it into a couple of pucks, and try this for myself.
so I have I and it is fun to see and to do - just not a lot of practical use as the forces are very weak
Awesome, also could turbine be laid laterally as replacements for ridge tiles, wind flow direction over roof allowing
don't they already make those?
Don't think they're exactly the same though, yours are counter rotating ?
Have you thought about using additional magnets above on the sides to keep it centered instead of the ceramic bearing? Basically a surrounded magnetic field to keep it from moving sideways
I can't wait for the end result 😮
enjoy the journey too mate
super upgrade! I'll almost bet you are gonna put the free weight on it. (because of the gap looking like it needs more weight to engage the magnets to the coils)
just printing now mate lol
It's mesmerizing....
it is indeed lol
What are the payoffs against interferance with the generation when compared to something like using a thrust bearing in similar wind speeds? I definitely be interested in seeing a compairison. Would have to make the maglev turbine base slightly wider to offset this? absolutely love this.
That gives me an idea for horizontal flywheel generator!
nice
@@ThinkingandTinkering and maybe intermittently pulse that flywheel with a small super capacitor going to a small DC motor using the captured collapsing field or "Back EMF" so as to keep the flywheel inertia momentum/inertia going on and on!
Here in west Texas the wind is always blowing. Tomorrow is forecast to have gusts up to 50Mph.
awesome - I think you are so lucky!
as long as you dont exceed the repulsive force of the magnets, they should do the job, as the closer you try and press them the stronger the repulsion, so I would think you can load them up pretty well before they actually touch
good point mate
is it possible to use a magnetic bearing similer to the archemeadies turbine video to stop the friction from the ceramic bearing all togeather?
Nice, magnetic bearings are a no-brainer for these applications. Would a smaller upper and a larger lower ring magnet combo assist self-catering?
The exciting part about magnetic bearings will come when we use them for car suspension & direct-driving the wheel - goodbye pesky CV joints.
I wonder how well the maglev bearing would perform in the twisted serpent configuration under load. The electromagnetic resistance would reduce its spin time. From the twisted serpent video it would still spin for a long time.
Fantastic! What are the downsides of magnetic bearings (i.e. why aren't they more commonly used)?
You could turn the solid disc into a 3D printed propeller, put it inside a tube, and put the modified Darwin tower on top of that to have a marvelous wind turbine.
You'd also need holes in the base, of course.
This is worth copying ‼️❣️ really like the Darwin idea And this is like the toy you blow threw, spinning something that whistles
Thanks ❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️
lol - already on it mate
I have been looking around to see if there aren't any computer fans that follow the maglev train principles, without the motor in the middle but with electric magnets in the circumferens parts that centers and rotates the thing silently.
As I sat mesmerized by the magnetic bearing continuing to spin, I found myself thinking that an active magnetic bearing could be utilized to help avoid the rotor from getting out of control in incredibly high wind speeds, simply by using a simple circuit to slowly reduce the magnetic strength of the bearing, allowing the rotor to "settle" on traditional bearings around the circumference. Or am I nuts for thinking this...
Nope. Kool idea to switch bearing. The axial load would be on both at some point. Keeping them seperately ingaged would be a fun problem
That's really cool, that actually is what I had planned to use, If figured it was the best choice It looks like it was. What I was going to use was a bunch of disc magnets placed on the outer perimeter on bottom of the rotor and the top of the base, I think the ring magnets will be easier ,cheaper and maybe better . Thanks, that is very cool .
I think either will work well mate - but I also think you are right ring magnets are pretty easy
2:30 That has been a lot of my years of energy research, actually.
Taking painstakingly precise tests and measurements, hundreds of times, back to back, then making some seemingly insignificant change, and running a few hundred more tests.
I guess some of us were just born to this kind of thing.
indeed mate
The only ' issue ' I see is that now you need to update your CAD files to allow for the greatly variable distance the magnetic Bearing will have due to the differences in the magnets potentially used. Having the serpentine coil section as just a wall and not part of the base, sections of the ring, with ' steps ' to hold the next segment from the outside may help. Usually when you connect sections of pipe, it is flared bigger and you stuff the new section into the other and that is the principle behind stepped ' washer ' segments. The base could have the ring that the current serpentine coil gets wound on inner diameter but a slightly larger outer at roughly a few millimeters and the ' extra ' bit outside higher by a few mill to allow for it to add more segments and keep the whole thing round ( any puns in this were unintentional ). With those specific magnets, measuring after getting the rotor and base made would assist in getting the serpentine centered around the rotating magnets and thus how much of a ' washer ' segment to use. Thank you for the video, I forgot how simple it can be to get an equivalent of a thrust Bearing with magnets.
put a circlip on the axel
Spinning thing goes up and expand, put magnets on edge, moving, and will boost spinning
Rob, come on. Your making what to buy that 3d printer again 😂😂😂😂 👍👍
lol - my bad lol
Can you use ring magnets on either side of the rotor to lock it in place without increasing drag. So the distance between the the magnets around the outside of the rotor and the stator windings can be precisely maintained.
If so then the magnet stator gap can be set so only the top of the magnetic field can be adjusted to reduce cogging with the stator laminations.
A different thought came across. Small engine flywheel magnet ignition coils. Could the stator have a primary and a secondary winding. With a power transtor much like an ignition coil to induce high voltage from the secondary. So you dont have to ramp the voltage up to get it to go farther thru the wires probably not efficient.
Since you mention the ring magnets field can interfere with power generation. Sounds like smaller ring magnets. Bigger diameter rotors. Scrounging some reel to real audio tape cans made out of monel as a magnetic field trap for the ring magnets.
Have been thinking of a duck tail fairing that has 4 layers. The inner layers are just fit tight to the rotor. So little air can leak in but the rotor still spins. The outer layers are wider and extend past the front of the rotor. To build up air pressure in front of the rotor. But also funnel the air to either side of the rear opening of the inner panels creating a siphon effect and lowering the air pressure behind the rotor. An interesting addition to this would be a damper blade like in a flue. With a servo one could limit the outflow of the rotor. Allowing speed control and more torque to turn the rotor when its open.
You could use a center rod that's magnetic with magnets around it for a pure frictionless bearings system. Then if you could even get a rough surface as you was blowing on, it should catch more air. I'm thinking of angled catcher that would work I think. What would happen if you set serpentine coil in between them, but closer to the moving magnets.
all good things to try mate - go for it
I am very curious about how the alternating poled magnets for a generator will affect the maglev effect. I suppose if the outer ring magnets are far enough away from the core magnet, it should work. I am still curious how it will affect things.
it won't the forces from the ring magnet drop off to nothing in a surprisingly short distance
Wow that's cool, I would love to see the side by side test after their both models are set up for generation.
cheers mate
I have been following mainly because I've had this idea for many years that being said I have a few ideas to reduce friction also I believe if we were to use neodymium magnets in a few different ways we may be able to achieve perpetual motion though I have not been able to achieve this myself as I live in a small apartment with children that I cannot afford to expose 2 this amount of electricity my four-year-old is too smart for her own good and is always trying to help me😅 that and other obstacles. Anywho perhaps it would be mutually beneficial for us to bounce some ideas off of each other. PS I think your channel is phenomenal keep up the good work you are creating geniuses
wow cheers mate and obstacles won't always be there - stick at it
Beyond my knowledge is i have seen small tubular neodymium magnets. Are the poles at the ends or inside and outside. Is there a way to stack them on a shaft that would repell the inside diameter of ring magnets around them to replace the ceramic bearings against the shaft. Or can conical neodymium be cast around 45 degrees. So the maglev effect is both laterial and linear so this could keep the rotor positioned in all directions as long as the outer magnets are putting the squeeze on the inner magnets. That could be your zero drag bearings for your rotor while maintaining the row of magnets to stator distance precisely. Used to me a place in culver city california that could create magnets of any shape.
All I'm saying is if you squeeze 2 magnets together, depending on how much force is applied they will be closer together or farther apart. In an axial flux alternator that would change the gap between the generating magnets and the stator coil. That would also effect the power generated, that's all.
Another excellent video Rob. When you blew on that plate, I thought about a tesla turbine. You've done a Tesla turbine before made with CD's and some washer spacers .... do you think that could be made to spin in a breeze?. Ive no 3d printer .... yet! or I would have had a go.
there are indeed examples of Tesla turbines being used as wind turbines mate - but you should most definitely give it a go
Could you line the shaft with magnets to replace the bearing? Then the only friction will be on the point of the shaft that the turbine is set on to keep it in place. I hope this makes sense. My brain sees what I want to say but describing it is difficult.
Add opposing magnets to the shafts as well and eliminate all surface friction.
only as an idea mate - in practical application that is going to be very difficult to achieve
@@ThinkingandTinkering K&J Magnetics has arc segment magnets so you can get one pole on the entire inner or outer surface of a ring.
Robert you are just making me more and more excited with every video. When I saw the "vertical" serpentine coil with the radial magnets on the outside rim, I immediately printed the two parts. After watching this video I can see that the magnets will not line-up with my coil if I decide to use the maglev principle. My question now is whether I can "force" the "maglev magnets" closer to each other by any means in order for my "generation parts" to be correctly lined-up?
Oh yes, I see that you have used ferrite ring magnets for the "maglev bearing". Any specific reason for that? BTW I just turned 70 years of age. 😮😂😂
Each one teach one thank you for this vedio
Many many thanks
How will regular gears compare to magnetic gears if used in motors/generators? See magnetic gears video on it.
I have built a series of magnetic gears mate - there problem is slip under high torque
Excuse my ignorance..
Can you tell me.
Is the full weight of the parts above the magnetic feild transferred onto the supporting worktop?
Cheers
Tim
Ever thought of poking round with mercury,it may have been used in ages passed for it,s bearing/bouyancy abilities..?
Big work.thanks
Robert, what is stopping you from replicating the magnets on the top side also? So they are outside each magnetic field? Double the power?
RMS, If the rotor that spins longer has no magnets interacting with coils, it will spin longer. I didn't see coils to induce drag on the rotor.
the coils aren't connected to anything mate - no connection no current flow - no current flow = no eddy currents
Thank you Robert. Now you have me thinking of the best way to do this with a pair your feather turbines contra-rotating as a wind generator. My main concern is having to deal with schizophrenic Texas weather.
Considering your lack of strong wind there in England, have you given thought to funneling what wind you do get. Use the Venturi Effect to increase what wind you can harvest.
You can put mag bearings on the shaft as well
indeed you can
Please what are the other bearings that you use to keep the whole rotor in place above the ring magnet? Some special kind of very low friction bearing ?
Could you counteract Earnshaw's and eliminate the spindle by having a case with a ring of magnets that could provide an opposing magnetic force to magnets you could place around the perimeter of the spinning disc?
no I am afraid not
the ring magnets dont effect the ring of magnets or the snake coil?
no
I suppose this is of great intrest for a flywheel. but once we have a generator working, the friction of a good bearing should be neglectable compared to the interaction of magnets with the coil(s). Correct?
I don't think so mate - a lot of time and effort goes into bearings and bearing design for a good reason
Thanks. I'm inspired!
awesome!
Hi Robert - will that magnetic bearing only work for a vertical axis? I've a feeling that in the horizontal axis the load would be transferred to the traditional ball bearings. Any chance of a bit of Twizzy action :)
yes mate - it works on vertical axis I have done a few videos on just that
Could you give more detail about ceramic bearings you have used?
Have you ever tried using the rotor with the vanes (feathers) hanging instead of laying down on top?
Intriguing 🧐
I wonder how many paper bills those ring magnets could hold on a fridge door? 😊
lol
This is great, but im not sure how it would work out with a large load on it. How much weight can the magnets hold before they start rubbing against eachother?
look closely at the oscillation in the top bearing...that a lot of unintended drag..easy to fix.
My only issue with this kind of bearing is the flex. If the wind is coaxial to a set of blades mounted to a center hub - generator inside wind pipe style - wouldn't some of the wind force push the bearing together? Possible enough to change the relationship of the generator's rotor & stater?
no mate the forces that far away are really really small - remember it is the inverse of the square of the distance - the field line drop off remarkably quickly