Can Van Rysel do the impossible?
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2023
- Can Van Rysel do the impossible? Deliver high performance, low weight, low price and some degree of quality? or will they just be another brand with fancy marketing selling low quality carbon frames that creak, flex and rattle.
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I don't rly understand why they should "compromise" at anything at this pricepoint. I rly doubt any premium brand frame costs more than 500$ to make in China and they have freedom to charge 3-4-5-6k $ for frameset. Plus Decathlon is huge, there is no problem for them to cut price a bit down. It's not that they're cheap, it's others are overpiced - it's not rocket science, bikes are relatively primitive product. Moreover, they're not using proprietary parts like forksteerer width, cockpits with strange design, like Canyon for example. Plus Decathlon is basicly in every big city so warranty and CS is not an issue, while DTC brands regulary crap their pants with CS.
Well said. Toy shop technology at aerospace prices is the order of the day...
I think alike.
Decathlon frames are made in Portugal. Still they arent something special. Its not TIME or Guerrilla Gravity.
You think R&D is free, all their engineers are volunteers, they don't have rent, insurance and taxes to pay?
@@valmorell there are aerospace screws(not huge ones) that cost $200. Bikes don't have aerospace prices. They don't even have moto gp prices for their parts
Perhaps Decathlon are simply offering a product without an inflated mark up like all the other over priced "manufacturers" these days?
They are! Ordered mine, it took two weeks to arrive, and it's a great bike!
@@gms80sixtreme Did you go for the RCR or FCR? I want to buy the FCR but there is little to no info on them online, maybe, i just go for the RCR. Has it seems to be a really great bike
times, where we have to be skeptical about a bike which cost 7500€....
Very very good point
Things get more expensive. The same could be said for when cars cost £10,000😅
@@veganpotterthevegan how old are you Sir, to remember 10k cars to be top of the range?
And pro cycling teams in Asia are racing on bikes with chinese frames like Hygge priced at 600$ with no issues. If a bike is not 15000$, everybody starts to question their success rate. You are so right about the times...
just to break it down for you, from someone within the bike industry. material and labor cost: shimano groupset between 60-80$, carbon frame less then 100$. only exception are wheels because of the mould, but they are also overpriced.
Guys thinking a good quality bike needs to cost 8k or more, that's what the industry wants you to believe. there was a discussion under another youtube video where some ppl pointed out 'cheap chinese carbon bikes' guess what, your canyon, crapvello, overpriced...sorry, i mean specialized and trek are from the same factory(oem) the only difference is branding and customer support. no they don't massage your frame 2 times a day and they are not freerange husbandry. we could argue about development and technology cost, but they are amortized long time ago@@veganpotterthevegan
GCN and David Arthur would give a positive "review" irrespective of quality. They're more or less extensions of brand marketing departments
I don't think they are offering anything lesser of a product .They are however offering good value for money ,unlike some of the top brands who charge loads of money for a name
and yet still produce poor quality frames.
Good luck to them and lets hope they win a few stages.
Well said Nick - I'm intrigued to see how this plays out for them. It's important not to get all elitist about this and recognise that Decathlon have the opportunity of dismantling some of the PR puff used to justify some premium brand offerings. Gram weenies and Rapha fans won't like them to succeed I suspect, but tubby 105 strugglers like me wish them well, as you do, with their audacious venture.
Righteously said! Time and Look will have lemons, too.
If they didn't have huge stores to make profit off of everything, they'd need to price their bikes higher too
Yeah. I don't think for a second that from a technology / capability point of view VR can't make a product that's as good or better than Specialized, TREK, Cannondale etc. They're all made in the same place. Best case scenario is Decathlon doesn't care much about pocketing a lot of profit from this bike's sale. They are using it as a marketing tool to get more eyes on their other products. Which means they can afford to sell it for that low and it won't automatically mean they are low on QC. Time will tell. VR's success will benefit us, consumers.
@@8rkyep that's the same reason they have them on the main decathlon website if you buy the bike you might also buy the bibs the bottle cages the pedals ect. And if you want to go gravel you'll buy the triban decathlon have a good history of innovation and keeping their consumer base (if we ignore the 2000-2015 decade that was a dark time)
There's a flaw in your logic, friend. There is no "set point" for where quality begins. There is NO guarantee that spending $10k gets you a better bike than $5k - You are right that assembly is key, though.
Yes! This! People need to wake up!
My guess is that they simply sell the RCRs with as little margin as possible, in order to improve Decathlon/Van rysel image and boost the sales of other products. They save money by having the whole process in-house, from design to sale. Decathlon is big enough to make margin elsewhere : in their shops where customers come back to service their Van Rysel / Rockrider, with their affordable tools suited for home mechanics or with the clothes. Btw their bibs and jerseys are incredible value for the money, they fit me a lot better than stuff like Gobik or Specialized for nearly half the price.
This. They sacrifice on margin mostly, like all their products anyway.
This is clearly a move to established the brand, and they are not rushing it. IIRC, 5 years ago, BTWIN top of the line was around 3k euro. Since they moved the branding to Van Rysel, they have progressively been putting higher tier bikes out, even at low volumes.
This bike and this sponsoring, are their for the brand image, and i think they expect to boost brand recognition and sales on their entry level and mid tier bikes more than the top. That also why it wouldn't make sense to separate that enterprise from the main site, as the message is explicitly "we are doing cheap stuff, but that's not all".
Absolutely
Their bibs and jerseys have improved a lot over time and are very durable. ‘Pile them high, sell them cheap’ ?
@@arzolt4765 In other youtube reviews (eg. CADE media), the low end Triban models from Decathlon achieved a superb rating which shocked many. At ridiculous price points compared to established brands or premium brands one starts to ask why established brands ask for ridiculous amounts of money for marginal gains. Especially for the average rider. Pinarello and S-Works are dentist's and lawyer's bikes it seems.
There is a reputation of Decathlon behind it. They always deliver the good value.
not true, thats blind consumerism! take the btwn bikes as an example, they are a load of garbage, thats made shiny so people will buy it.
As someone who worked in Decathlon: don't be too suspicious about price. It comes frome fact that Decathlon have their own designers, own factories, own distribution, huge volumes and most importantly: they almost don't make money on their high end products 😅
This bike will be priced to just pay for itself nothing more. It's there to satisfy more demanding users and boost image.
BUT you are spot on about mechanics and their tools. Decathlon have A LOT to improve in this case. It is so bad that I even suggested introducing an IKEA-like sales model for the most expensive bicycles, so that customers could assemble them themselves or take them to a more experienced mechanic 😆
Customers can assemble themselves. I don't know how recently you've worked, but since mid 2023 you can buy any Decathlon bike in a box and assemble yourself or in workshop you trust. By that assemble I mean Put wheels on, put seatpost, handlebar, pedals. Groupset, bb, bearings, etc are installed already in the orign factory. Also at least where I worked higher end bikes were assembled by workshop team as they had better tools, experience to be 100% sure it's properly built up.
All the bikes at decathlon are bs mate. Even the mechanics there are bs worker. They are not trained properly and poorly treated by stupid French kants. Just ask the guys down under!
Having purchased a bike from them before, their service is great. If a BB creaks, I can take it to a shop and get it fixed without any extra cost. Depends where you live of course, but I have 2 in my city so not an issue. I had a faulty frame and they gave me a brand new bike, the exact same day. With Canyon, god only knows how long that would take. Also they are the largest sports brand in the world, so that helps with buying power etc.
"price that low"; WHAT!?
Fair
i recently took a look at some of the Van Rhysel / Triban gravel bikes in a decathlon store in Spain and was astonished at the spec and quality for the price. I personally think the industry is ready for a shake up like this.
There was a time when French rode French bikes: Peugeot, Motobecane, Lapierre, Mercier, Gitane, etc. Decathlon is not seen in France as an underdog bike. They feel Decathlon is a winning horse. It became the Ikea of sport equipment. And now uncle Jean-Pierre will see his own Decathlon winning horse AT the Tour de France and he'll be so proud that he will pour himself another glass of rosé before falling asleep on his couch. And maybe someday many of them Jean-Pierre will buy a Van Rysel bike, not the 8000€ one but the 1500€ one. He'll buy the jersey too for some more publicity.... That's a very good move for them. Decathlon couldn't go to the Tour with someone else bike. The only problem I think is the name Van Rysel, not French enough. The big 8000€ bike is not the goal for the time being.for them. If their 2000€ bike is good for the price and if they manage to win an étape or two, their reputation will van Rysel...
Awesome comment. There may be a lot of truth here.
Look or Time don't sound very French either, but are perceived as the pinnacle products of the French biking industry.
A bike is a service product for the most of us. And that is a problem for Decathlon. Nothing more, nothing less
@@82vittYes. Something like "Cervélo" would have been great. It sounds international but with a French touch with thé "é".
Great comment. Decathlon is not the underdog at all indeed. The comparison with Ikea is spot on.
Most of my relatives are riding Tribans for recreational purposes. Lots of them would love to get a racier bike and a little nudge might be well enough to trigger the built in France by the French vibes and boost the sales. There's a whole gap in the market that Van Rysel is trying to fill and that's really exciting to see them shaking the biking world up.
If they deliver a good quality product for that amount, that means everyone buying 10k, 15k, and over 20k are just being ripped off.
People that already bought them WILL defend their purchase, no one wants to be seen as stupid or naive.
I don't mind paying a premium for quality, but paying a car's value for not even a round bottom bracket hole in a Cannondale is just greed.
Everyone buying 10k, 15k, and over 20k ARE being ripped of :-D. That is the point.
people paying 10-20k ARE being ripped off. the margins on Bikes are insane. Most frames are made in Xiamen in China, and you can half the price if you buy direct from China. And that's just the frame.
Don’t be a snub. More expensive or European made does not guarantee anything.
Van rysel is more than just some bike frames to decathlon. It is the name they use for everything they make that is premium cycling based. Van rysel shoes, van rysel jerseys, van rysel lights. It would be kind of absurd to suggest they sell it elsewhere, because the whole point of them developing van rysel bikes is to get people to shop at decathlon, and to buy a bunch of other van rysel products too. Why would they want another retailer taking away another 30% markup when it's the vertical integration savings that makes those bikes such good value in the first place.
"premium cycling based" maybe so, but their price level hasn´t been at a premium level imo (which is a good thing btw).
@@boc-tonysyklist2145 Premium opposed to the cheaper btwin and triban own brands they have. It was a smart strategy on their part to split up the pricing tiers into different brands. Like how everyone associates ikea with cheap stuff in their mind because they got a 5 eur end table once even though they make some nice stuff too.
You summed it up perfectly when you’ve said “What do I know”. Have you seen the price tag on this bike? It is their value for money proposition for a high end bike. They are not building new brand, they expanding existing product offering. You’ll see two things happening soon, a lot of people will be riding those bikes, as they’re authentic and affordable “pro-tour” machines. And the top of the line segment offering of the competition is going to drop in price as a result of that. This is same thing as people wearing a “Lidl” branded kit.
For sure. I hope the concern I raised is that this pro level kit needs building well to really get the best experience. If they train the mechanics well this will be a resounding success. If they build them badly, set them up poorly, then it will go badly. I dearly hope decathlon invest in their mechanics.
I think you are a bit too skeptical about this bike. The weight of the frame is good but not amazing, there are lighter bikes in the wt peloton. Also Decathlon is not just known for having cheap outdoor products, but also for making genuinely innovative ones that are not just less expensive, but also better than the alternatives. I think that this bike has the potential to be a budget alternative that is also well made: its a standard design for a modern road bike, has no weird features and they don’t waste a huge amount of money on marketing, so being a HUGE brand Decathlon could really make this miracle work. Lets see
I agree with all you said except the part of the weight. It's spot on the UCI weight limit of 6.8kg. (you can't have the UCI sticker with a lower weight.)
What got me intrigued is those set of wheels man... they are the shiz in TT/Triathlon circles.
@@Onigure The UCI sticker only means that the frame is compliant with the UCI frame builders manual and the brand paid a lot of money to UCI to it approved, but has fuck all to do with the weight of the frame which can weigh anything so long as the entire bike is no lighter than 6.8kg.
Dudes getting skeptical for a 8000$ bike. While bianchi and a few more bikes out there failing a decent amount of times despite having a price of equal to a Ducati Panigale. Lol meanwhile world tour Asian Riders having 0 issues with some 600$ 1000$ frame with just a mechanical or a simple di2 groupset with no additional icing on the cake (like overpriced pulleys, bbs, cockpits, etc…) or whatever is affordable, that is made from China, Taiwan, Philippines or anywhere in the southeast having 0 issues…
it is a good point... would I be as skeptical if Trek announced a bike of this spec at that price....
they are probably removing 3-5k dollars in profit, I mean most bikes right now are 20-40% off and I'm 100% certain that is still with them making money
Van Rysel has accomplished the most important thing... their bikes look great 🙂
Decathlon has been raced in the grand tours before and has won the most demanding sprint stages. They have their history in the pro peloton.
I would suggest the difference in the price point is based upon the economics of scale of a company with direct global outlet opportunities. Where Canyon will hope to sell 1,000-2,000 top end bikes via local vendors and online, Decathlon will expect to sell 50,000. Plus, their local after sales support will put them ahead of others who sell through local vendors where the support is more tenuous.
I do hope Van Rysel will do well with this new approach. I really like Decathlon for democratising sport in general. They have done probably more for enabling people of diverse economical status do sports than any other posh sports gear brand. Theu just offer a choice of affordable products. Van Rysel (which is the original name for the city of Lille) targets cycling enthusiasts, who want to spend money. 🙂
2 major issues I encountered with my VR EDR CF 105 (2022).
1. Loose thru-axle thread nut on the frame; I put a 303 Firecrest on my and realized the wheel's hub gone rusty in less than 3 months. At first, I contacted Zipp and was angry with them to produce a questionable product. Then, I bought a new hub (100 euros), but in the process of replacing, I realized the thru-axle end-nut on the frame was loose and potentially caused the water ingress by letting the axle wobble all along. I had to buy bent pliers to hold the nut.
2. Compromise on weight saving components; I moved the stem lower (or move spacers up), but later I found that the top of the fork is getting slightly crushed. I always use a torque wrench and actually use 1 number lower than spec'd. Turns out the expander plug is so small and placed so low in the fork, which lets the top of the fork to be mostly hollow and no matter how much the torque, the top of the fork gets crushed anyway. I replaced the original "lightweight" expander with a much longer version made by Pro which covers all of the fork to the top cap, leaving no room for any side to break the fork.
The frame is very light (around 900g) and very stiff. I find it much stiffer than my aluminium bike, which makes wonder how is this an endurance bike if it's as stiff for sprinting and racing, while they stated this is a non-aero bike in the product description.
So like with all other Decathlon products which are often described as "good value for money", but in fact are objectively mediocre at best. I would buy a t-shirt, socks or a kettlebell from them - low tech things that can't be made wrong, but I would rather I pay double their price and get a cycling jersey from Sportful or Castelli and get top performing gear than only just "good value". Their bikes are at best good for someone who rides purely recreationally or commute, but won't bear fast paces and 20k km per year of training and racing. Obviously, WT pros don't care because their bikes will be getting taken care of by top mechanics. I predict there will be lots of issues with those bikes similar to Dolan, Planet-X and other such "good value for money" brands.
@@82vitt I came to the same conclusion. Decathlon is mostly hit and miss. I have their winter jacket for 75 euros, uncomfortable but gets the job done, while a 100-120 euro Santini is far more comfortable and actually perfected for the job. On the other hand, Bioracer's winter gloves are a joke for 30 euro while Decathlon's VR gloves for the same price are keeping my hands away from freezing.
Canyon has done it 20 years ago. I bought my Canyon Ultimate(2005) frame for 999€ and their bikes were much cheaper than the competition. The price has gone up when they started sponsoring etc.
Very true. Sponsoring pro teams is big bucks
...same for Cube recently. But they still keep the basic models at competitive prices. Unlike Canyon further and further detacching from the ground.
But in Canyon defense, they were focusing on ultimate performance from the beginning, only could not afford it right away without profits from base models.
Judging by all the youtube videos picking apart all the other bikes, they can't do any worse. Also they probably aren't to bothered about a massive profit on bikes like bike companies as they can make it up with golf balls. hiking trousers. swimming trunks, canoes etc....
Great point. Like it.
Of course they can take a spill, many big brands can. I live in Sweden, we got Media Markt from Germany maybe 10 years ago, they`ve sold their shops now. The buzz said they lost £160m in the first 5 years. Media Markt didn´t go bankrupt because of this, to my knowledge.. And there are several other brands who are most probably involved in the plant in Portugal... Rgr
Maybe they cut out the middle man, like distributor, so if Decathlon is the distributor, retailer.
4:30 GCN? Review? they don't do reviews.
Agree with the GCN comment. They don't review, they sell.
The bike is still not exactly cheap.It's just not the absurd prices of other brands.
Problem with Van Rysel is no-one rides them. Decathlon always had several reasonably priced Van Ryzel road bikes, but I have never seen anyone buying or riding them. People are either buying super cheap Triban's, or spend tons of money on specialized and trek
Plenty in France
Low pricepoint?! Cheap?! What now?! How about everyone else being way overpriced? It´s not like the Van Rysel bike is cheap in any shape or form, but SOME of us are getting too used to a artificially high price level. Not that you can compare bikes and kit, but I bought a Van Rysel bib at Decathlon this summer, and it´s just as good as any other bib I own (Castelli, Sportful and several others). And since you bring Canyon to the table (and I´ll add Rose as well), they have much cheaper bikes than this (or they used to have at least), and do they necessarily have creaky bottom brackets and other parts falling off them (well Canyon have hade some handle bars issues tbh :-D)? No they don´t. We should all stop being such a bunch of snobs. If Van Rysel decided (for now) not to have their own web page and whatever else, maybe that is pretty smart. Why waste the money when the Decathlon web page is already up and running (and for all I know works well enough)? Why not save money on something which many of us don´t really care so much about? So maybe I´m at the Decathlon site to buy some cheap golf balls, and hey I see this bike I really like and I decide to buy it. Win-win, ka-ching! I refuse to believe that a Van Rysel bike (or any other bike) is rubbish just because it doesn´t cost 10000 pounds or dollars or 8500 euros. I would rather say that the Van Rysel bike probably is way too expensive and the brands which cost even more is like throwing your money out the window (over exaggerating of course).
The only ride/hi-level review has been of an RCR (not the WT Pro model) on GC Performance 3 or 4 months ago.
At the moment, I think we should give Decathlon a chance - all the reviews of their entry level bikes are positive.
Are they mega underpriced or are their competitors massively overpriced? 🤔🤔🤔 Let's face it, the bike industry is currently taking the piss with pricing hence why many large brands still have lots of inventory and are currently reducing the price to sell...
Exactly.
Correct. The Chinese brands are coming, take the hitherto profit and run... Rgr
I dont see why Van Rysel need to separate themselves from Decathlon. Decathlon has had bikes in the pro peleton before. This channel has proven that even the so called marquee brands dont always have the quality control that you should expect for their overinflated prices. Doesn't seem like any or many bike companies get it right 100% of the time. And Decathlon aren't just a bike company, so i dont see it as any great risk for them.
Many premium manufacturers act like Ferrari, Ferrari build significantly fewer sports cars than can be sold. This allows prices to be kept high, but there is little in the way of economies of scale. Furthermore, Decathlon has significantly lower distribution and logistics costs than normal bicycle dealers.
Compared to bike companies charging premium prices for hyped crap frames? Hands down win.
People found decent noname things for cheap online often enough to value brand names less in general i think. That's why budgetpremium has a chance.
Sadly all top brands quality control is very poor but prices sky high
You have a good point when it comes to price and quality. I bought a Van Rysel carbon road bike with campy Potenza which cost me 2000€ and the bike weight 7.5kg, but of course I immediately felt that something was wrong with the handling of the bike compared to my Canyon. The axles between the two wheels of the Van Rysel are not aligned, which means I steer more to one side than the other, and it's even dangerous. Ha also mentioning the bad service they have, Decathlon delivered the bike of my wife with rear wheel loose and missing a screw on the back light was almost falling I already complained. Unreal really
If they want to step into the ‘real’ bike world they need to have proper mechanics. I’ve seen too many bikes with the forks facing backwards, loose qr skewers etc etc. They should be aware of this and might already be hiring mechanics, probably one per store that handles the premium bikes.
@@Bonky-wonky 👍
Well my Rose cost about 500€ more in 2016 and weighed about the same (7.8 without pedals of course...). No axle problems (and why should there be as they´re DT Swiss) or any weird handling or any other issues.
Why would you separate Van R with Decathlon? What's so wrong with having a (supposedly premium product) top brand with a good price point? They are hopefully saying, the market is skewed. And bikes should be accessible even at the higher end.
To be fair the clothing is good quality.
Would help if they came into stock! I’ve had my eye n the FCR since the announcement, still waiting to see them available to purchase.
If it’s half as good as my Van Rysel carbon shoes it will be a cracking bike.
My van rysel NCR CF equipped with Rival etap Axs is one of the cheapest cabin road bikes with this groupset and it's pretty decent. Got it for 2400 euros in july this year. Others wanted at least 3k for this
Don't forget that car marketing saying "Race on sunday, sell on monday". In some countries, they might get the reputation edge they need through this kind of tricks.
But here in France, I don't think Decathlon would vastly benefit from this, as they already well flooded the market.
If they decided to keep similar margins, not in percentage but in actual value, this could be an interesting return on the long run.
Decathlon rc tribans and e-bikes are everywhere here in France, and they relied on decent customer service in their shops also. So if they bring the same offer, same customer service with publicity tricks on top of that, they could see good success.
To be honest, their triban offer can not be properly called cheap if you look at the components they put on those (microshift, low end tektro with mtb brake mounts on road/gravel oriented bikes), so they very well know how to make margins.
They're compromising on margins... The number of bikes in general that decathlon sells is astronomical compared to other bike brands. I dont have any numbers, but here in france the triban brand (level below van Rysel) has been incredibly successful and they are literally everywhere.
And no, decathlon doesn't just sell cheap, bad quality stuff, though that may be the case or image they have in the UK. In pretty much any field - climbing, running, walking etc. - they build up from the bottom and take the whole market, from cheap to expensive. They have an amazing iterative short life cycle on products, constantly making them better. And it's nit just in france, in Spain decathlon is everywhere too. I'm sure it's the same in much of europe.
They have no need to make a separate van rysel website, marketing, direct to consumer model. People here are already used to buying top quality products from decathlon, sitting right next to the cheap junk.
Btw, it may sound like am an apologist, I'm not. The reason they are able to make such cheap products (not talking about bikes) is because of the cheap labour they use. The company is an ecological disaster.
Any composite bicycle frame set is an ecological disaster.
A tiny handful of Chinese manufacturers have proven to be able to supply well made bikes with a top level spec. Winspace don't supply bikes with a groupset and fully built. I expect due to contractual agreements with their OEM suppliers. So it is possible for the price.. Time will tell. As you point out. Why not sell direct from a dedicated website? A possibility is the global push to consolidate all product sales into a tiny handful of big box companies. Eliminating 95% of current retailers.
Why not sell directly from a dedicated website? Well, why should they? They have a site selling sports equipment and a bike is... sport equipment. Voila!
Re : the bottom bracket. Decathlon don't yet sell this version of the RCR where I live, but I asked what BB their current most expensive bike uses - a Van Rysel RCR Pro, with Ultegra Di2 and L-sided Stages meter. It costs about 5600 euro and weighs 7.2 kg with tubeless. It uses a Shimano Ultegra Press fit Hollowtech II.
Got a Dolan myself, great value but was just thrown together. I had to completely rebuild it from new. It's now spot on.
Sport for all, all for sport. It's pure anti-elitism and it is great!
Let's see what happens. Just look at what Decathlon did with the Triban range. I suspect this will be a low margin range that fits a purpose. I have some Van Rysel products, including carbon fibre bottle cages that are extremely high quality but a third the price of the competition.
I would love to see you or Hambini get a hold of the new Decathlon (Van Rysel) race bike. It looks stunning from photos, but they are the 30,000' view. I would like to see the nuts and bolts you get into. Love your videos, keep it up! Great to hear from you on this part...I second Decathlon (Van Rysel) needs to send you a bike for a look!
As a consumer I like this. I don't want or need yet another high end brand offering bikes I am super skeptical about. I mean I have the cash to buy pretty much whatever I want, but I ride a Canyon as I just don't see the value in a specialized or pinarello or something. I really can't see were the extra money is going. Plus the argument of the build...??? Huh? Canyon even forgot to include my batteries for my axs groupset. I am going to go over the bike myself anyway, hell I would do that no matter what brand. Just give me the bike for a price that seems fair to me and I will be happy. A 7K ish bike? Sure. 10K plus? Man that's a hard sell unless it's some Time but with pink and wide tyre clearance dream build. Oh and I have already started to try van rysel clothing and am really happy with it.
When keith bontarager said that i think he was refering to $18 bars/seatposts. Kalloy springs to mind and super cheap super light frames. Not a bike that costs £7500!
The other stuff they sell is mostly very high quality for the price. Im betting its very good
The world pro team Decathlon-AG2R La Mondiale will be racing these bikes next year. Do you think they did any quality checks of the bikes before agreeing to do so? I can't imagine them racing substandard bikes but perhaps there's some chicanery going on where Decathlon performs extra QA for their racing team bikes vs. the ones they sell on the website?
It's happening from time to time with conti teams and lower tiers, of course more often. When bikes supplied have to be replaced several times in a row.
Or you can just offer questionable spec like it was with 3T Aquablue
Decathlon has been quietly upscaling. I’ve used a lot of their top shelf (Van Rysel) branded cycling kit and it’s about half the price of a truly premium brand like Castelli, but with 90 percent the quality (so they don’t exactly step on their toes because if you want the very best there’s that, but just destroy the mid tier brands).
Their non cycling kit has also been getting higher end product lines. Running shoes which are truly top shelf stuff.
They’ve evolved past the “cheap and a bit crap but good value”, they have a very wide offering.
A mate of mine rides one of their higher end road bikes, it’s absolutely solid stuff.
If Dolan is competition then I'd say Planet X is also. Interested to see how the new EC-130 is, looks a brilliant deal, loved my old Planet X bikes!
I had a RCR ultegra carbon frame before this model, previous edition...it was already amazing...very good value for money
You need to engage with Decathlon. I’ve ridden various of the Btwin higher end versions for years and have been endlessly impressed with the price value ratio.
I’d fully consider purchasing one just knowing their dedication to quality.
I’m sure the guys in a Decathlon store won’t be wrenching these. They have many guys in France and the UK who know their stuff.
You can get all three aspects you speak of with ease in any product of you removed the fourth, unspoken one of (profit) margin! For these guys this is a brand leader and I’d bet almost a loss leader to raise brand perception. Good luck to them in shaking the market.
Decathlon has been quietly upscaling. I’ve used a lot of their top shelf (Van Rysel) branded cycling kit and it’s about half the price of a truly premium brand like Castelli, but with 90 percent the quality (so they don’t exactly step on their toes because if you want the very best there’s that, but just destroy the mid tier brands).
Their non cycling kit has also been getting higher end product lines. Running shoes which are truly top shelf stuff, for instance.
They’ve evolved past the “cheap and a bit crap but good value”, they have a very wide offering in terms of quality and they save a lot of cash, comparatively, on marketing, shops, and so on by being pretty integrated.
Decathlon has nothing to be ashamed of nor a need to hide their name.
A mate of mine rides one of their higher end road bikes, it’s absolutely solid stuff.
So, 4 months on, the answer is in "WIN" left, right and center. The team is kicking ass and taking names.
Yeah. And it looks like they have been training staff too. That was my main concern.
Helmet looks like an off brand Protone, I like it, hope they sell them cheaply enough, might buy one.
Rode with a cyclist in Italy that used a brain bike (the old branding at decathlon). Super good climber and he loved the bike. Sadly he and a few other hit a bad segment at a descent and they had to go with helicopter to hospital. They were all crashing at different places. The roads probably were slippery after a really bad storm, I took the day off because of that. But I am interested in their lineup and would like to test them. But I prefer rim brakes because I am picky about balance on the bike so we all see.
is there any info available on whether they developed the frame in house themselves?
There have been various blogs, vids and articles that claim they have hired a proficient design team
It's fully in-house developed by the teams in Lille 😊
Any bike can land at the hands of a poorly trained mechanic and come back creaking. i do hope they send you a bike or frame to review.
The idea to combine performance and budget stuff under one brand never worked in the bike industry. Even decathlon did that in the past, you can still find some deca bikes with TIME forks. They go for the same as an old rockrider haha
I look forward to the day Paul gets one of these bikes, directly and anonymously from Decathlon, for his meticulous assessment!!
I would be more surprised than anyone if that ever happens.
I’d imagine they are compromising on wank factor….. most the big brands have a meaningful markup as they have an army of BS merchants, aka the marketing team.
Buy enough group sets / components then you can get the price down…. We know that from old chain reaction who were selling group sets to consumers for less than many LBS could get at trade.
They still are..
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the retail cost into its components (no pun intended). Frame materials, Labour (manufacturing, quality control, assembly, design), marketing (a biggie?), distribution, profit. I’d guess Decathlon profit margin is low but volume high and high end brands would have lower volume and (much?) higher profit margin. But a lot of bike brands go bust so it’s a mixed picture. So can you get top quality at a relatively low price? Probably not.
Most important thing everyone overlooks, which I can point to as Decathlon bike mechanic: Decathlon has almost 0 profit margin on the bikes. Decathlon has plenty profit margin on all other stuff you end up buying when you get your bike. Even your wife will come along to the shop to get new gloves, running shoes, bike lights, coats, etc. etc. etc.
Bike brands primarily sell bikes, they need profit margins on the bike. Decathlon does not.
On quality: I agree the bike is only as good as the mechanic that built it. This is how it works: At service centers there are well trained mechanics who build the bike up, ready to ship to the store. They are properly trained and you can expect they did a good job. In the store, mechanics like me will finish the bike, meaning, we will install pedals, adjust brakes and derailleurs, check torque specs and test if everything works as intended. Only the best trained mechanics in the store should touch the bikes, but as of right now this is something stores have to figure out themselves. I expect they do, but that's something that currently is not communicated across all stores. That being said, every bike mechanic in a store should be able to easily install pedals and adjust brakes and derailleur. If they can't do that correctly on high end products, they will struggle more with the lower quality stuff that needs way more creativity and thinking outside of the box.
Show answer; Good mechanics build the bike to 95% finished -> good mechanics in the store should finish it, but maybe sometimes it will be finished by a mediocre mechanic who should still be able to do the simple task without issue. But I will admit: If I was going to order this bike, I would kindly ask to build it myself, as I don't trust everyone in my store not to round out a bolt.
But remember: biggest cost saving is in having no profit margin.
Thanks for the input here. Very interesting
I think you will eat your own words. Decathlon are a huge sports company that are renowned for selling quality sports products at very competitive prices. So i am sure this will be another quality product. Lets just wait and see.
For sure. I really hope they get it right and lead the way to lower prices.
Maybe in the same way we looked down at lidl and aldi and went for m&s and waitrose then low and behold a few years later found their quality award winning wines and foodstuffs were actually OK and we'd all been a bit snobby.
Can't see the surrey dentist types with their pinarellos and matching rapha kit going into a decathlon though, maybe that's a good thing and an argument for another day.
Good analogy. Lidl and Aldi are also famous for paying better wages and their till staff to work super efficiently.
I think they are just playing in another league than all the other bike brands (Decathlon 15.2 bn revenue, Specialized 500 Mio).They can easily subsidize these top end frames with all their other product categories with way higher margins. Plus, to limit badly assembled bikes going out, they just limit the supply to a very few frames for consumers… On top of that, Decathlon is one of the largest sporting goods retailer and has huge private label brands in all categories incl. Cycling with long lasting factory connections in China. If there is one brand able to pressure any factory to keep quality up, it is Decathlon.
I would simply put it down to profit margins, and wish them luck , maybe other manufacturers will take note if the frame is top notch 👍🏼
We have been overcharged for theseso called quality bikes for years, the industry will have a major shake and this is one of them, it's looks like a top quality bike and we are finally NOT ripped off! Good luck van rysel.
Not only the info from Decathlon on the specs may be sparse… Also our info on how the project World Tour Bike works is. How much money do they move inside Decathlon (maybe that's why it's happening inside the discounter web shop) to sell a 9k or 10k bike for 7,5k? And how many are produced? Who is assembling for them? Do they really start those things from scratch? - The speculation is fun yet nonsense until we see Ag2r racing and so on. - I am curious as well.
(However, I think especially Rosti is not amused to print Decathlon & Van Rysel on their gear.)
@2:10... is the term "loss leader" applicable? I think this is when a company accepts that they will lose money on a product in order to create buzz, establish the brand, win new customers, drive sales of accessories, etc.
Maybe
Mate can you do a video specifically on how bottom brackets are incorrectly installed, or just reply here? I get that BB shells can be misaligned/need to be faced/ are oval or out of tolerance... but you make it seem like installing a BB is rocket science. What is it that you are worried about when you say "in decathlon with poor tools and bottom brackets will be installed badly and will creak "? If frame BB shell is in spec, in what way can they be installed badly?
Yes, main thing is shell manufacturing. But with assembly one can rush and not align the bearing press with cups and or shell, under or over tightening happens as well, either introducing cracks in the shell or leaving some gap. Then the preload of the cranks gets lost in short wear-in period and destroys the BB further
Dude his whole channel is full of videos about this topic. You make a very big assumption there bud. That is, frames are almost never in spec from the factory and if the mechanic doesn't have the proper tools to check the frame and remedy any issues (which seems to be rocket science to some people), you can bet it'll creak like there's no tomorrow. I have seen many Decathlon bike mechanics at work and if I was in the market for this bike I'd specifically request it to NOT be delivered fully assembled as much as possible and take it to my LBS instead. Then it'd still be stellar value over anything else
@@feedbackzaloop Right, under/over tightening is understandable, seen a few under tightened BBs straight from LBS myself. What I don't understand is how someone can not align a bearing press with cups when it is a weekly if not daily part of their job. Of course, everything gets much more complicated when BB shell is out of spec requiring a higher level solution. I was just wondering for shells within acceptable tolerances how mechanics can be so incompetent.
@@myxti3669 it's "normal" when you are at 20 minutes per whole bike pace, including brake bleed, and are the least experienced newly enrolled mechanic with other errands to do, what is the most case with pre-assembly at the factory or final assembly at the shop.
I have the RCR with Sram Force. It's absolutely brilliant. And installation / customer service has been flawless.
Installation? Did you order online and assemble at home. How was it?
@@Mapdec Ordered online and picked up in store. The assembly was already done, but they do fit the saddle height/angle etc to you.
I don’t see what all the fuss is about as I don’t suspect they will undercut anyone when the biggest costs in a top of the range race bike are groupset and wheels…
@0:51... the oddness of selling premium bikes in a discount store, indeed, seems odd... but can anything be said for those of us who know NOTHING about Decathlon? If I saw a premium bike on the Decathlon website, I'd think nothing of it, simply because I never even heard of them prior to a week or two ago. In my unknowing mind, they seem like just another retailer.
Are Ribbles ti CGR’s any good?
The problem in this price segment will be that people will consider whether they accept the background „Decathlon“, or they prefer to resort to an „established“ manufacturer.
The roadbike scene is extremely brand-savvy…
Or to put another way: If you invest 7000 in a bike, how important is the brand to you !?
Why Decathlon has such competitive prices? Bc they order in huge volumes. For example, Decathlon can get very good prices for drivetrains from Shimano/Sram. Some people fail to realize that small brands will charge you more bc they cannot negociate that much against the big boys.
Btw, I have a base layer and a wind breaker from Van Rysel. The quality is out of the charts.
Interesting video. I would bet on Bontrager's famous words as well, and the one they are dropping like a hot potato is quality.
On another note... following up on your Hunt Nipple cracking video. I mentioned your video on my warranty claim (my aero 50s are doing the same thing) and got an interesting reply. I'd like to share it and my response... if you'd like. I commented here on your latest vid. to save you some time. Let me know.
Thanks for politely calling spades... spades 🙂. Reminds me of the movie quote, "Where I'm from, they call that a left-handed compliment" 😁
Thanks. I hope you got your wheels sorted
@Mapdec Hopefully. As stated before, I'm getting weary of their quality. This is the third issue on two different wheelsets. It's the Bontrager pick two theory with Hunt as well. Those of us who have been in automotive, aerospace and/or heavy industries are stumped, and scratching our heads because these QC issues in the bike industry are low hanging fruit and easy to fix on the (manufacturing) shop floor... and they usually don't cost as much as they save in warranty, scrap, and waste. Also, big degrees and certs (aero and F1) don't mean much if you never roll your sleeves up, dive in, and get your hands greasy outside of the test lab (which is basically a vacuum). My mentors were Hambini types... Machinist with engineering degrees who thought management and marketing were a bunch of buzzword phonies... except the ones who listened and learned from those of us who have busted a knuckle and have grease under our fingernails. The Hunt rep thought you "exaggerated" the severity of the problem with the cracked nipples and proceeded to go into a rant about how many thousands of wheelsets they've had no problems with including with pro riders, blah blah blah. It was very full of marketing smoozery, to say the least. But it's not surprising. I believe I'm moving on after these wheels run their course. FFWD carbons seem promising. Have you seen misalignment issues on their nipple holes? I also like the DT Swiss foundation. Thanks again for your input and responsiveness.
Its called ....competition...for the maket!!
Ther bike are realy good.
Ive got a aluim. btwin whith ultrega and only at 7.9kg
And the frame was made in Belguim.
And its good your concerned...finaly good stuf for the money
How they lower the price? If some bike shops can take 40% margin on the bike they can take much less and still have profit. They can work with zero margins (they are not) because they are getting money from everything else that are selling in their stores and they are just building the brand up. Specialized could sell bikes at that price easy and still be profitable.
Because people don’t buy everything else at the shop, they buy online these days
Specialized could probably sell they bikes for a lot more and morons would still buy them.
Over £7,200 is still a lot of money so I wonder who they hope to aim this bike at - who the clientele might be? While the price is probably very reasonable for the specs you get the price is still way more than I can justify spending on a bike, and those who are willing to spend this kind of money, and have it as well, are very likely going to want some of the more prestigious brands even if it ends up costing them a few thousand extra. At the end of the day this could of course be a bit like the Skoda, that moved from bottom ranking to fairly acceptable over the course of a few years.
Who the clientele might be? People who look at bikes costing 10000 and saying to themselves: "Why?!"
Don't personally think they're making Money out of them, decathlon makes money on volume from all the low cost items and can price these at break even/loss and use them as a publicity stunt
They could be laughing in their sleeves, yes.. Rgr
Dream on, of course they are making money, just not as much as the others. But hey it’s not the manufacturers fault, it’s the idiots that think it’s ok to pay upwards of £4k for a bike !!
well yes they might be making money on them but there's at least 5k between groupset and wheels, so fagpack math they've got very little margin once you've paid off marketing, mechanics etc. Sure, they're making a profit on them, but let's face it Decathlon was never in it for the money on this, they probably make more selling 2£ towels than they'll ever make out of these. Take into account that if you've got 7k to spend on a bike you probably aren't going to Decathlon @@markx5
I believe this bike might be sold at a loss for a good reason. Branding. This is very likely all for marketing. Sell one product at loss (and likely not sell very often) but increase the sales of all decathlon bike product at a profit.
Loss? No way. Maybe a lower margin per bike yes.
Loss 😂😂😂😂😂😂🤯
Maybe the brand is entering the market and to gain share are sacrificing margin for volume. It could be that they have decided that they dont need to be as greedy as other brands.
Any news on an updated scylon for 24?
I have seen pictures of parts….
with regards to well paid: do you consider 30k/year to be well paid? because this is what you recently announced to pay to your guys... just asking ;-)
Yes, this is the average salary for our region and well above the industry average for the role. We will pay more when riders pay more. Currently £60 ph labour rate is a bit of a ceiling. Mechanics get about a quarter of what they put through the till after tax.
@@Mapdec ok, I live in South, it seems to be more $ here. But what do I know. I like your passion guys but passion without the full pocket might not be enough on long run.
7000 euros is perhaps closer what a bike is worth/ should cost?😊
CloseR yes.
My first response was that this must be an open mould bike, but I can't find anything about it and as nobody mentions it, it probably isn't.
I guess they're working on the margins, they don't need to earn a lot of money on this as most consumers won't buy the top model, the nerds do. Consumers will buy the bike below this one with Ultegra at 5500 euros and that's the bike they want the margins on.
AG2R Decathlon are riding Van Rysel in the Tour de France this year '24. Not too shabby. I'll be cheering them on! Eat your words bike industry snob too good for rim brakes, internal cable, alloy, and 105.
Higher end van rysel bikes are all assembled and quality controled in France. They also claim they use the same mechanic for the whole assembly from beginning to end of each bike. I think it's more effort than most companies.
I have the much cheaper (1,150 €) EDR AF and it's also assembled in France
Oh. Do you have a link to where you read that. Interesting
@@Mapdec I remember seeing it on a couple places. I have found one of their promotional videos where they do say so, however it is unfortunately in french czcams.com/video/_vXofDlG35c/video.htmlsi=b5c_rD6NjojkdZ54
The final reassembly at the store is not done by a mechanic tho
Thanks for your videos by the way, I always appreciate your input and expertise
@@Mapdecthe statement is correct. One person assembles each bike from A - Z at their facility in Lille.
7500k is 14,000 grand. Cheap? You think. The bicycle industry is lost
Strange maths
1:25 my take is that it’s a halo product aimed at lifting decathlon’s general image so in that sense it’s smart to actually keep van rysel close to decathlon/btwin..
The big caveat with their premium bike stuff is availability, their titanium gravelbike looks great but is rare as hens teeth.
Great to see them step into the market of ‘real’ sports bikes, although I must say their mtb range is ‘almost there’. Good bikes but there’s always one thing they could have done better, like they were at 85 per cent of a finished product and decided to just sling it into the market. As much as I want to like them I currently still wouldn’t buy their mountainbikes. I don’t want to rag on them as I love their outdoor gear and the bike development team seems like good people. Interesting development though, let’s hope this will shake things up, the prices and sheer arrogance of the big brands has become a bit untasteful since covid.
That sounds like a very bad, expensive and over complicated business case
the comp is middle men and markup. they have buying power to get sram out there. they certainly giving a biscount on parts because shimano owns the market. how many big companies dont offer sram.