Hey, you didn't need to but thanks! Btw, I receive an email for a question a user sends but when I click it I cannot find the question in the comments lately (YT must be messing up with too many questions). Anyway, you had a question about which impulse peak to use and I cannot find it here. You should always be using the impulse peak of the measurement taken at the central listening position. You have to "cross corrletaion align" every other measurement for that speaker to that one. And then take vector average.
OCA, thank you for your videos. It’s fun to improve my system every few weeks. With this latest method, I had success importing 65k tap filters into Audyssey for all channels. It doesn’t seem like anything broke and lip sync is still fine with video. I stuck with the 0.7 target for my filters. I read the Dolby best practices document, and it’s confusing, but I believe the curve they describe is best for near field monitoring. With these correction targets, precise distances and levels, I finally get the 3D sound field Audyssey promises in both music and movies. Like others, I cannot line up my dual subs’ impulse because I hit the max distance. My second sub is at the back of a long room. My subs are sealed, so I believe I can line up the first rise from 0 to the center impulse, but I can’t remember where I read that advice. I definitely have better imaging, dynamics and bass punch than ever before. Cannot wait for your next video.
Even though I'm running a high-performance arcam avr20 boosted with a couple of matching power amps, enjoying Atmos music with quality is bloody expensive. Unlike stereo and equipment depending, Atmos music can only be appreciated at medium to high volumes. Too much background mechanical noise (RFI), and to think the cables that carry the signal to my height channels happen to be shielded as well. Can only assume the heightened noise floor (faint background signal noise) becomes more apparent cause the entry-level cables on my height channels have limited shielding. Hence, when the height channels are switched off (externally amplified poweramp), therefore, just going through just a five channel configuration (base-level) the noise floor comes back down to satisfactory levels, unlike the height channels, which only have limited shielding. The shielding on my base-level speaker cables are of superior quality. Unshielded cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my height and surround channels within 10 minutes, the unwanted faint background signal noise used to dissipate. Maybe I should've matched cables of the same quality? Yeah, so long as I don't mind paying at least an extra £500 for the height channel cables. Conclusion; Other than listening at medium to high volumes, listening to Dolby Atmos music with quality can be rather expensive. An avid music listener.
I find the volume level low with Atmos tracks and bar a few really great records, most sound like they have been Atmosized in the studio just for the sake of it.
Hey O.C., why exactly are you using the „reduced“ distances as per the supreme audyssey video I recall that this is not necessary when changing REW to 300 m/s to get impulse responses right? You used var smoothing instead of psychoacoustic mentioned in the supreme audyssey video. May it be an idea to use var. smoothing for that too, or probably 1/6? Thank you Sir.
The receiver calculates the time sound will travel 2.62 meters and applies a delay accordingly. Because it uses 300m/s as speed of sound, it only calculates the correct time for the real distance of 3m that way. As long as speaker impulse peaks are on top of each other, it will not matter in terms of coherence. Only the room size and atmos bubble size will change. I'd stay with either physcoacoustic or variable smoothing for sound accuracy.
I am a MULTEQ-X user and as such I am able to create a custom curve with PEQs. Would you mind providing each PEQ (Q/Gains/Frequency points) in order to achieve the prescribed ‘Atmos’ curve?
@@ocaudiophile Does this look right to you? I think it is but would like for you to confirm if you don't mind Type Frequency Level Q peak 16Hz -2.3db 1.52 peak 71Hz +1.2db .44 peak 185Hz -.6db .86 peak 5.77kHz -1.4db .6 peak 20.0kHz -6.4db .20
I cannot tell without seeing the original response but your Qs are low and dB levels are not too large so this is overall a nice EQ which will not degrade sound quality.
Hi Mate, many thanks for your great tutorials. I am running a Mac and Apple TV, which are giving me a headache with the Dolby Atmos files. Some files are playing as Atmos, others not. Your Pink Noise 9.1.6 Video will just play fine in Dolby Atmos, the single channel files will be only detected as Multichannel In. If by chance you could reencode those single channel files whith the same settings as the Pink Noise video, that would be awesome.
Dear OCA, Could you please comment (or do a lecture) on how to deal with dual subwoofer setup in Audyssey? You briefly mentioned in the comments bellow that we have to make 3 measurements. But as Odyssey treats Channel 55 (2nd Sub) as a reference to Channel 54, and uses the same Custom Target Curve, it should be treated differently. I assume that adding customTargetCurvePoints for Channel 55 manually, will not force Audyssey to change the logic and follow a separate curve. So what would be a proper way to treat it? Just an idea - wouldn't it make sense to time align the 2nd Sub to eliminate repeated standing waves in the room? Thank you so much for what you do and share
I would suggest using only one sub output for the loudest bass response with or without MiniDSP (you can use a y-splitter and time align the subs between each other with their phase settings unless they are just 0/180 switches) but if you prefer using both outputs, you will need to use the method of Audyssey to be able to use the app to custome calibrate. The method of Audyssey is to time align each sub for the LP (measured distance of the sub to the mic position) which is almost never the best time alignment to have between two subs (you can see in my subwoofer alignment video how total bass response changes with small time adjustments) but still there's a sum of two subs at the LP. After that Audyssey only corrects this summation and uses the correction filter only on the SW1 channel as it doesn't really have capacity to apply two different corrections to two separate subs. But since the summation is equalized, it's possible to get a flat response at the end regardless, You will need to measure and align each sub to the rest of the speakers then measure both subs together and create a correction for that and apply it to only SW1 in the app.
@@ocaudiophile Do you plan on a video on the details of manual dual sub correction using this audyssey approach? Would be realy helpful. Is there a way on how see/simulate the impact of the subwoofers phase setting, in REW? As far as i understand, in the phase affects the delay at a given frequency, right? but the delay is not consistent accros the spectrum.
Maybe a little off-topic, but would this also help with Stereo (non-Atmos) music listening with Audyssey enabled? At the moment for stereo listening, I tend to use Direct mode on my Cinema 50 because it makes the FL/FR speakers really come to life. Soundstage is wide and especially the Bass impact is really good at the main listening position. When I switch to Audyssey for stereo music listening, the sound/soundstage feels "boxy" or "boxed-in"...(sorry for my lack of technically precise explanation). Bass is basically non-existent, even with the subwoofer working(!!) and there is no tangible bass-impact at the main listening position. Just wondering whether you personally use Supreme Audyssey/Full Manual calibration for stereo listening, or Direct Mode? Thanks in advance.
I use a different solution for stereo and use convolution files processed in Roon. If I have to use Marantz for stereo, I'd either go for "pure direct" or apply the correction in "Dolby Atmos Music video". The boxy sound is because of tinkering with high frequencies and especially boosting dips there.
Hello! Your methods are simply the best. The music really sounds much better. But it's a little unclear to me. Sorry, I've never been familiar with RAW. The average measurements, as I understand it, are 3 measuring points with a microphone and aligned with the central microphone. And the central dimension is aligned in time is not clear to me. Which one? But I think this is the found distance. And re-make the measurement in the center. And this measurement should be aligned in time. So or not?
You can take measurements at as many microphone points as you wish but the last one should be at the central listenning position and then you cross correlation align all measurements to that last, central position.
@@ocaudiophile I don't understand from 6.06 minute in your video. What time measurements need to be loaded. Average I understand from your answer. I did so. Aligned three dimensions along the central time. And I aligned the same 3 measurements along the central cross-correlation. But did I do it right or not?
@@twister213 Ok now i understand your question. When you time align your speakers in REW, it aligns all of them to perfect time=0 but the reciever distance settings are not that accurate, they can only be aligned to a certain accuracy around time=0. What you do in the 6:06 minute in the video is to re-align every speaker again after measuring them with the best possible distance settings applied in the AVR. It's a very minor adjustment to help REW calcualte the subwoofer/speaker crossover interactions more accurately. You can skip it compeltely if you so wish.
measurements are fixed resoltuion, you can add/remove fdw/smoothing whenever you want. FDW cycles to use is a function of reflections in the room, most rooms will do fine with 15. 9 is for less correction and less deadly sound. It's up to you.
9 cycles (FDW) (vs former 15) and var smoothing instead of psychoacoustics. Does this also apply to your other videos on you channel? This is the better way, I presume? :)
@@BuffSquadBigBenni FDW window size (or cycles) really depend on how reflective your room is. 15 is generally accepted number for normal living rooms. With FDW 9, I intended to correct ONLY direct sound also considering Audyssey'e limited number of taps for correction. P.acoustic smoothing and variable smoothing are similar at the high frequencies. Variable only has more detail in the low band. There's no secret formula as long as you apply fdw and some smoothing, you're not gonna be wrong. The best way is try different variations and pick the one that sounds best to you. WIth a Marvel movie, you cannot hear these differences but with music it's more delicate.
Can I use the same original measurements from the Supreme calibration and just change FDW and smoothing settings? Or do I have to take all new measurements with the setting changes already in place?
Hi OCA, I am a MultEQ-X user here and i saw you commented to another user that he could import your dolby atmos curve as is to the program but when i tried that it applys nothing since it is only able to import bi quads parametrics . Is there any chance you could tell me how to replicate the curve using Q's and gains?
@@ocaudiophile yeah i tried importing the txt as a target curve but it does nothing because it contains no biquads,i can choose the file but it modifys nothing in the target curve.i did try to recreate it using PEQs but im not that skilled to do so.
Okay, maybe I'm not very good at this but I've watched this video and the Supreme twice and I still have many questions. I have trouble with the AISO drivers. I can now use Java if I use the files? What if my center is 11 feet away? How do you adjust for the speed of sound? I use a denon avr. Do you still change the measurement in REW to 300? Can you give me a time link from the steps I should have done per the Supreme video before I start on the atmos music steps. I am not clean what I should already have prepared to start the new steps. Thank you.
@@ocaudiophile Yeah I saw it, but was confused because the first video you changed it in REW then the second video you mentioned changing the measurement on the AVR to 2.67 to account for that. I am still not sure what to set my center distance as. It measures 10.5 feet with a tape measure.
What distance you enter for your acoustic reference speaker doesn't matter. It's the other speakers distances from that which needs to be accurate and REW will show you what you need to use in the AVR if sound speed is set to 300.
@@ocaudiophile but it seems to me that you are using the same target curve for each speakers but I want to know how to change the curve for each speakers to make them match to each other If you have a speaker with less treble on one side
@@msoles30 Target curve should always be the same for all speakers. You can increase the volume of the speaker with less treble and then equalize its bass response over the curve.
Finally finished this. Took me nearly all day as I was learning as I went. It was strange because my distances were never right the first try. I had to keep adjusting 2 or 3 times before they were aligned within reason? Do you multi EQ graphs looks very strange after this or did I do something wrong? They hardly show up and look like the slope almost straight down. I did run sweeps after and everything appeared very smooth and still aligned. More testing tomorrow if I can get some time.
@@ocaudiophile Here is the link. I made multiple mdat files to try to stay organized. Hopefully the title explains well what part they are for. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1w1KBkhKzjYgI-l3yAZpbYISUYZo1WaPO?usp=share_link
@@johnwicker7783 You've really done it exactly as instructed ;) however it seems like you have pasted Subwoofer custom curve points to TFL and there's no correction for subs. Also you're using both subwoofer outputs, it's quite uncommon in the community. Everyone with two subs uses minidsp (including myself). But not a big deal, you will need two subs separately and both subs together measured (a total of 3 LFE measurements, all with acoustic timing reference). Make sure you use REW's sweeps for LFE.
Thank you for the videos and answering all my questions.
Hey, you didn't need to but thanks! Btw, I receive an email for a question a user sends but when I click it I cannot find the question in the comments lately (YT must be messing up with too many questions). Anyway, you had a question about which impulse peak to use and I cannot find it here. You should always be using the impulse peak of the measurement taken at the central listening position. You have to "cross corrletaion align" every other measurement for that speaker to that one. And then take vector average.
@Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile I deleted it as I figured my mistake. I'll get my files over shortly. Thank you
Got awesome results! Interesting that the sound is better even though the frequency response is not as flat as what I had before. Thank you yet again!
Cool, thanks!
OCA, thank you for your videos. It’s fun to improve my system every few weeks. With this latest method, I had success importing 65k tap filters into Audyssey for all channels. It doesn’t seem like anything broke and lip sync is still fine with video. I stuck with the 0.7 target for my filters. I read the Dolby best practices document, and it’s confusing, but I believe the curve they describe is best for near field monitoring. With these correction targets, precise distances and levels, I finally get the 3D sound field Audyssey promises in both music and movies. Like others, I cannot line up my dual subs’ impulse because I hit the max distance. My second sub is at the back of a long room. My subs are sealed, so I believe I can line up the first rise from 0 to the center impulse, but I can’t remember where I read that advice. I definitely have better imaging, dynamics and bass punch than ever before. Cannot wait for your next video.
Even though I'm running a high-performance arcam avr20 boosted with a couple of matching power amps, enjoying Atmos music with quality is bloody expensive.
Unlike stereo and equipment depending, Atmos music can only be appreciated at medium to high volumes. Too much background mechanical noise (RFI), and to think the cables that carry the signal to my height channels happen to be shielded as well. Can only assume the heightened noise floor (faint background signal noise) becomes more apparent cause the entry-level cables on my height channels have limited shielding. Hence, when the height channels are switched off (externally amplified poweramp), therefore, just going through just a five channel configuration (base-level) the noise floor comes back down to satisfactory levels, unlike the height channels, which only have limited shielding. The shielding on my base-level speaker cables are of superior quality.
Unshielded cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my height and surround channels within 10 minutes, the unwanted faint background signal noise used to dissipate.
Maybe I should've matched cables of the same quality? Yeah, so long as I don't mind paying at least an extra £500 for the height channel cables.
Conclusion;
Other than listening at medium to high volumes, listening to Dolby Atmos music with quality can be rather expensive.
An avid music listener.
I find the volume level low with Atmos tracks and bar a few really great records, most sound like they have been Atmosized in the studio just for the sake of it.
Yes, compared to other sound modes, Atmos sounds quite low.@@ocaudiophile
Hey O.C., why exactly are you using the „reduced“ distances as per the supreme audyssey video I recall that this is not necessary when changing REW to 300 m/s to get impulse responses right? You used var smoothing instead of psychoacoustic mentioned in the supreme audyssey video. May it be an idea to use var. smoothing for that too, or probably 1/6? Thank you Sir.
The receiver calculates the time sound will travel 2.62 meters and applies a delay accordingly. Because it uses 300m/s as speed of sound, it only calculates the correct time for the real distance of 3m that way. As long as speaker impulse peaks are on top of each other, it will not matter in terms of coherence. Only the room size and atmos bubble size will change.
I'd stay with either physcoacoustic or variable smoothing for sound accuracy.
I am a MULTEQ-X user and as such I am able to create a custom curve with PEQs. Would you mind providing each PEQ (Q/Gains/Frequency points) in order to achieve the prescribed ‘Atmos’ curve?
You can download the curve in the link and use it "as is" in REW and Multeq -X
@@ocaudiophile Does this look right to you? I think it is but would like for you to confirm if you don't mind
Type Frequency Level Q
peak 16Hz -2.3db 1.52
peak 71Hz +1.2db .44
peak 185Hz -.6db .86
peak 5.77kHz -1.4db .6
peak 20.0kHz -6.4db .20
I cannot tell without seeing the original response but your Qs are low and dB levels are not too large so this is overall a nice EQ which will not degrade sound quality.
Hi Mate, many thanks for your great tutorials. I am running a Mac and Apple TV, which are giving me a headache with the Dolby Atmos files. Some files are playing as Atmos, others not. Your Pink Noise 9.1.6 Video will just play fine in Dolby Atmos, the single channel files will be only detected as Multichannel In. If by chance you could reencode those single channel files whith the same settings as the Pink Noise video, that would be awesome.
That's not technically possible, that video is encoded by Dolby but the sweeps should play fine, check your settings.
Dear OCA,
Could you please comment (or do a lecture) on how to deal with dual subwoofer setup in Audyssey? You briefly mentioned in the comments bellow that we have to make 3 measurements. But as Odyssey treats Channel 55 (2nd Sub) as a reference to Channel 54, and uses the same Custom Target Curve, it should be treated differently.
I assume that adding customTargetCurvePoints for Channel 55 manually, will not force Audyssey to change the logic and follow a separate curve. So what would be a proper way to treat it?
Just an idea - wouldn't it make sense to time align the 2nd Sub to eliminate repeated standing waves in the room?
Thank you so much for what you do and share
I would suggest using only one sub output for the loudest bass response with or without MiniDSP (you can use a y-splitter and time align the subs between each other with their phase settings unless they are just 0/180 switches) but if you prefer using both outputs, you will need to use the method of Audyssey to be able to use the app to custome calibrate. The method of Audyssey is to time align each sub for the LP (measured distance of the sub to the mic position) which is almost never the best time alignment to have between two subs (you can see in my subwoofer alignment video how total bass response changes with small time adjustments) but still there's a sum of two subs at the LP. After that Audyssey only corrects this summation and uses the correction filter only on the SW1 channel as it doesn't really have capacity to apply two different corrections to two separate subs. But since the summation is equalized, it's possible to get a flat response at the end regardless, You will need to measure and align each sub to the rest of the speakers then measure both subs together and create a correction for that and apply it to only SW1 in the app.
@@ocaudiophile Do you plan on a video on the details of manual dual sub correction using this audyssey approach? Would be realy helpful. Is there a way on how see/simulate the impact of the subwoofers phase setting, in REW? As far as i understand, in the phase affects the delay at a given frequency, right? but the delay is not consistent accros the spectrum.
Maybe a little off-topic, but would this also help with Stereo (non-Atmos) music listening with Audyssey enabled?
At the moment for stereo listening, I tend to use Direct mode on my Cinema 50 because it makes the FL/FR speakers really come to life. Soundstage is wide and especially the Bass impact is really good at the main listening position.
When I switch to Audyssey for stereo music listening, the sound/soundstage feels "boxy" or "boxed-in"...(sorry for my lack of technically precise explanation). Bass is basically non-existent, even with the subwoofer working(!!) and there is no tangible bass-impact at the main listening position.
Just wondering whether you personally use Supreme Audyssey/Full Manual calibration for stereo listening, or Direct Mode?
Thanks in advance.
I use a different solution for stereo and use convolution files processed in Roon. If I have to use Marantz for stereo, I'd either go for "pure direct" or apply the correction in "Dolby Atmos Music video". The boxy sound is because of tinkering with high frequencies and especially boosting dips there.
Hello! Your methods are simply the best. The music really sounds much better. But it's a little unclear to me. Sorry, I've never been familiar with RAW. The average measurements, as I understand it, are 3 measuring points with a microphone and aligned with the central microphone. And the central dimension is aligned in time is not clear to me. Which one? But I think this is the found distance. And re-make the measurement in the center. And this measurement should be aligned in time. So or not?
You can take measurements at as many microphone points as you wish but the last one should be at the central listenning position and then you cross correlation align all measurements to that last, central position.
@@ocaudiophile I don't understand from 6.06 minute in your video. What time measurements need to be loaded. Average I understand from your answer. I did so. Aligned three dimensions along the central time. And I aligned the same 3 measurements along the central cross-correlation. But did I do it right or not?
@@twister213 Ok now i understand your question. When you time align your speakers in REW, it aligns all of them to perfect time=0 but the reciever distance settings are not that accurate, they can only be aligned to a certain accuracy around time=0. What you do in the 6:06 minute in the video is to re-align every speaker again after measuring them with the best possible distance settings applied in the AVR. It's a very minor adjustment to help REW calcualte the subwoofer/speaker crossover interactions more accurately. You can skip it compeltely if you so wish.
@@ocaudiophile Thank you. Now it is clear. I'll try again. But even now it sounds like it never did. Thank you very much.
So when doing the setup from your previous video, i should change the 15 cycles to 9 before i do the 3 listening positions measuring right?
measurements are fixed resoltuion, you can add/remove fdw/smoothing whenever you want. FDW cycles to use is a function of reflections in the room, most rooms will do fine with 15. 9 is for less correction and less deadly sound. It's up to you.
9 cycles (FDW) (vs former 15) and var smoothing instead of psychoacoustics. Does this also apply to your other videos on you channel? This is the better way, I presume? :)
This is slightly better for music with Audyssey in my tests.
@@ocaudiophile ok, so stick with 15 cycles and psychoacoustics for movies?
@@BuffSquadBigBenni FDW window size (or cycles) really depend on how reflective your room is. 15 is generally accepted number for normal living rooms. With FDW 9, I intended to correct ONLY direct sound also considering Audyssey'e limited number of taps for correction. P.acoustic smoothing and variable smoothing are similar at the high frequencies. Variable only has more detail in the low band. There's no secret formula as long as you apply fdw and some smoothing, you're not gonna be wrong. The best way is try different variations and pick the one that sounds best to you. WIth a Marvel movie, you cannot hear these differences but with music it's more delicate.
Can I use the same original measurements from the Supreme calibration and just change FDW and smoothing settings? Or do I have to take all new measurements with the setting changes already in place?
You can use the same measurements
@@ocaudiophile As always, thank you OCA!!
Hi OCA,
I am a MultEQ-X user here and i saw you commented to another user that he could import your dolby atmos curve as is to the program but when i tried that it applys nothing since it is only able to import bi quads parametrics . Is there any chance you could tell me how to replicate the curve using Q's and gains?
I haven't used X but I'd expect it to accept .txt file as target curve. If you are sure I will have a look at how to create it with biquads
@@ocaudiophile yeah i tried importing the txt as a target curve but it does nothing because it contains no biquads,i can choose the file but it modifys nothing in the target curve.i did try to recreate it using PEQs but im not that skilled to do so.
Okay, maybe I'm not very good at this but I've watched this video and the Supreme twice and I still have many questions.
I have trouble with the AISO drivers. I can now use Java if I use the files?
What if my center is 11 feet away? How do you adjust for the speed of sound? I use a denon avr. Do you still change the measurement in REW to 300?
Can you give me a time link from the steps I should have done per the Supreme video before I start on the atmos music steps. I am not clean what I should already have prepared to start the new steps.
Thank you.
You can use Java Exclusive drivers as well.
You should change speed of sound setting in REW. This information is already in the videos.
@@ocaudiophile Yeah I saw it, but was confused because the first video you changed it in REW then the second video you mentioned changing the measurement on the AVR to 2.67 to account for that. I am still not sure what to set my center distance as. It measures 10.5 feet with a tape measure.
What distance you enter for your acoustic reference speaker doesn't matter. It's the other speakers distances from that which needs to be accurate and REW will show you what you need to use in the AVR if sound speed is set to 300.
@@johnwicker7783 you can set center speaker distance to 10.5/343x300 feet, your atmos bubble will be the correct size.
Can you do a video on to get left and right speakers to perform the same or have a similar response to each other
That's exactly what these correction methods are trying to do but it's very dependent on the placement of speakers and the shape of the room.
@@ocaudiophile but it seems to me that you are using the same target curve for each speakers but I want to know how to change the curve for each speakers to make them match to each other If you have a speaker with less treble on one side
@@msoles30 Target curve should always be the same for all speakers. You can increase the volume of the speaker with less treble and then equalize its bass response over the curve.
@@ocaudiophile right so how would you do that so they can match
Just increase the volume level of the speaker (receiver speaker level settings) until its high frequency response matches to the other one.
Finally finished this. Took me nearly all day as I was learning as I went. It was strange because my distances were never right the first try. I had to keep adjusting 2 or 3 times before they were aligned within reason?
Do you multi EQ graphs looks very strange after this or did I do something wrong? They hardly show up and look like the slope almost straight down.
I did run sweeps after and everything appeared very smooth and still aligned. More testing tomorrow if I can get some time.
You can paste google drive links here and youtube will not delete them. Send me your .mdat and .ady files if you can. I'll have a look ;)
@@ocaudiophile Here is the link. I made multiple mdat files to try to stay organized. Hopefully the title explains well what part they are for.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1w1KBkhKzjYgI-l3yAZpbYISUYZo1WaPO?usp=share_link
Also, one big difference i did notice was my target curve was a damn near flat line...
@@johnwicker7783 Ok I downloaded them, have a coule of errands to run, will get back to you soon.
@@johnwicker7783 You've really done it exactly as instructed ;) however it seems like you have pasted Subwoofer custom curve points to TFL and there's no correction for subs. Also you're using both subwoofer outputs, it's quite uncommon in the community. Everyone with two subs uses minidsp (including myself). But not a big deal, you will need two subs separately and both subs together measured (a total of 3 LFE measurements, all with acoustic timing reference). Make sure you use REW's sweeps for LFE.