DO NOT BUY HAYES PRODUCTS
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2021
- Planned obsolescence and right to repair are big topics in the tech industry. Sadly, when I lost a bolt for my Hayes Dominion A4 mtb brakes, I discovered the bike industry is even worse. (RANT video)
Response from Hayes added as pinned comment.
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Update for those interested:
FROM HAYES:
Hi Laurens,
I’m following up with you regarding your feedback on the pivot bolt on your Dominion brake. I realize this is quite some time after your first interaction with us, but I wanted you to know we do take feedback seriously.
First I wanted to apologize that it had become such an ordeal to get one small bolt. This should have been resolved upon hello. I have used this feedback with my customer care team, so all are benefiting from this situation, and we are working to make certain another customer doesn’t have the same experience. We have been working hard to make sure the customer experience with us is positive and creates the confidence that makes for brand loyalty.
Secondly, has this situation been resolved for you?
I look forward to your response and if there is anything further we can assist with,
ME:
Hello [redacted]
Thank you for the email, I had to source a similar bolt elsewhere. The last reply I received from Conimex was that the bolt was not available, and that I'd have to buy a whole new brake system.
Has this been solved now? I could ask Conimex if service parts are now available.
FROM HAYES:
Hi Laurens,
To answer your questions below yes, this has been solved with my team. No, and the reason is Conimex is our Reynolds distributor/service partner and not a Hayes warranty center.
You reached out to the correct area (HBG direct) and as I mentioned should have been solved immediately and not sent elsewhere. Even with a Hayes service center I would expect my team to help a customer if they came direct to us in need of a solution like this. You are welcome to keep my contact information should you have any additional service concerns.
Thank you again,
I have not tried to lose another little part and contact them with a similar question to check if the situation has improved. If you have, please let me know!
@@UnicornBikes i had a look from a distributor here in the UK called Hotlines, and they appear to have some service parts, and i found out, if you get a new lever blade assembly for £55, it comes with the bearing, the little bolt you need, and the dog bone
Brother, I’m glad I watch this video because I was going to buy these brakes, sounds like I’ll be dodging a bullet
@@brandenhopkinssame I’ll stay away from them. I’ll find another brake system to go with
Then I thought I had finally found a high-end brake with high braking power, high-quality workmanship and good design at a reasonably good price... I won't buy it and will buy a Shimano XT / Saint or Formula Cura 4 instead.
I broke a random specialist bolt in my trp derailleur that I had no chance of making as it was a random one. Same as you, I messaged them and got a similar response. However, the guys at trp decided to go take a brand new derailleur and take the thing apart and give me the random bolt. So they made one of their $350 products not working anymore just so they could send me one. They sent it for free (I just covered shipping) and it arrived in no time with a free pair of socks. That’s how it should be done :)
I see the bolt for sale on their page.
So you're saying that the OEM bolt is proprietary, yet the very common M4, which you could buy in any length and material, fits. Huh.
Interesting…… i had the complete opposite with hayes…… they were awesome to me, sent me tech specs and new bolts for lever clamps, free of charge
A good tip when cutting a bolt is to put a nut on it and cut through the nut and bolt at same time. The nut stops the bolt burring so much on cutting.
That's agony, just thread the nut on all the way, cut the bolt straight, then unthread the nut off completely. Then sand a chamfer on the trimmed bolt end.
That's odd you couldn't get a replacement bolt for the lever as I've had the same issue on mine. I took it to my lbs and they fixed it with a bolt they had in their spare bolts bin.
Had my A4s for over a year now. I've put them through the ringer and have had no problems so far. So I can't comment about their customer service. I kinda feel like they forwarded the email expecting the Belgium crew to take care of it the right way, as warranty. I would've emailed the main company back again and showed them the email you received.
Lucky you. I've had two rear brakes go bad on me so far, Dominion A4's. They are quick to replace them, but if I'm going to have to do this every year or two, as per my current trend, I'm not going to keep buying Hayes products. I'm not even that hard on my brakes either. They're shit-tier products through and through.
You should have sent it back as faulty should never have fell out in the firstplace. . I prefer magura mt7s
Thanks for the video. Thought of buying myself these brakes. Maybe i go for TRP then..
That's really sad to hear ! Got another problem with mine , can't bleed my rearbrake
....... the fluid don't goes up to the master cylinder, equal what I try ...... never had an issue like this with other brakes before , any idea perhaps?.
✌
Interesting but did you ever go to a bike shop to see if they have the right bolt? I work at one and am somewhat confident the bolt you lost is fairly common within the industry
Old Shimano Philips head limit screw has been going strong for more than a year now on mine, what more it's the correct head diameter to start with.
Great Video! Also love that out there are channels talking truth. Keep it up. Most are losing this attribute when growing.
Also you might use threadlock as the original bolt also had some of the blue stuff on it.
This is very good to know, thank you. I was considering getting the Dominion A4 but after service is very important especially where I am where I've learned my ways with my Campag SR EPS... zero service unless I drive 4 hours to their East EU service center... So I will go with either the Magura or SRAM.
Yeah…. Don’t buy Hayes anything especially the Dominions. Hayes bleed procedure is the worst and their customer service for parts or info is terrible
but on the other hand. I have had 2 sets and thinking about a third set. Had ZERO issues with mine and they are VERY POWERFULL and one of the bestfeeling brakes on the market. Big thumgs up form me!
@@mhannah1985 Yeah, cause none of you know squat about hydraulic brakes and need to follow tuts down to the letter otherwise you're lost. Just watch the official video and do what you need to do to remove the old fluid and air, and that's it.
That's an M4 button head cap screw(sometimes called button head socket cap screw) Any supplier of machine scews should have them, McMaster and Carr would likely have them at different lengths and grades. Even stainless if you're fancy.
Exactly my thought.
Yep, basic small engineering parts will often do. Selection boxes available with various heads & sizes all below 5mm. Bottle of blue loctite is also worth owning, binds well but not so tight as to drag aluminium off when removing a fastening. Sometimes a little imagination required with epoxy for modifying shanks that take bearings (unnecessary bearings usually) or bushes.
For Christ's sake they are like $1.20 on eBay. Takes two seconds to find.
thank you for this video, was seriously thinking of buying them from all the reviews. Which manufacturer is most service able? Brakes being the most important component to work perfectly and reliably on downhills. I'm between Magura, TRP, and hope now. Withholding small parts is an insanely selfish pattern of a flawed companies principles.
Glad I could help!
This happens with Sram Code RSC brakes too, I think it's somehow because of the bearings in the lever pivot. You need to remove them and put on threadlock when new.
nothing good to say about sram either. sram brakes are so unreliable.
Good video , are they good brakes though, I mean would you recommend them for their stopping power? Too bad about the customer service, definitely a big negative considering the price.
Awesome vid mate! keep it up!!
Pherhaps use some weak locktite like the original?? And make a few spares :D They should have made a kit with them, doesn't make them look good. What are the breaks like feel wise? Do you know if they have the same attitude with Manitou, though Ive heard some of those forks are designed to be user serviceable.
I made sure to mangle the thread enough that it won't come out again lmao
Sorry but love my Hayes Dominion brakes... same bolt fell on me after 2 years of abuse. However, in the US they do sell such bolts on your regular hardware store no sweat on my end.
I almost had a similar experience: I had a defective A4 master cylinder from the bike maker (OEM part). It slowly lost pressure as I was braking. I reached out to Hayes via email and was offered to purchase a new master cylinder. I was a but frustrated. After cooling off, I suggested a course of action that I would expect from the likes of my favorite companies like Patagonia and Marmot: charge my credit card for a new master cylinder and immediately ship me a new one. I'll send the defective one in and if you agree it's defective, refund me. My CSR said he'd ask, and in a few days he said he was sending me a new master cylinder gratis. No need to return the old one. Now ideally I wouldn't have had to ask, but in the end they came through. I'm rooting for Hayes - they've been making brakes for a long time, but have never been a household name amongst us who love to build our our bikes. They took a risk with the R&D on the A4's and people dig 'em. I hope you're reading this, Hayes. We all hope your service will be as good as your A4's.
My older Hayes had a pin that was press fit. I lost it multiple times. Hayes does not want the lever to stay on
Today I was installing my new Dominion A4 brakes and the master cylinder port stripped out with barely any tension, I was using a torque wrench set to 1.5Nm. Now it's leaking DOT fluid. My train of thought is that if something like that happened to my brand new brakes, what worse may happen to them after they've been used? I think I need to replace the whole master cylinder unit. I'm considering swapping over to Hope as they sound bulletproof.
Same thing happend with my Hope brake... bought that little bolt on the first website i looked on and had a working brake after 3 days :)
idk about europe but in australia its super easy just to buy the lever and i know of many places that would have that kind of bolt or be able to make one. i run these brakes on all my bikes and love them and have never had any issues with reliability
Contacted my local supplier in NZ and they have them available. I'm as far from Europe and pretty much anywhere as you could get and I can get these bolts. Have you tried dealing with another Hayes supplier because your current one sounds like an R Sole.
Right, that's a complete dealbreaker. Horrible, horrible customer service and priorities. I was about to buy these brakes but this is a definitive dealbreaker.
Dude, do you think shimano would sell you that bolt? Or Magura? Forget it, they don´t sell any spare parts. It´s 5min job, go buy longer bolts that typically comes with threadless part under the bolt head, shorten it as needed and tap a new thread, job done. Try making new pistons or seals if you wanna know what´s difficult.
What a nightmare. Friend of mine has a set and loves them, but this convinced me not to get a set of my own.
Not that you didn’t search thoroughly, but there are specialty fastener shops that might get you closer to what you need. (I realize you’re in Belgium and I’m here in the States. I’ve had poor luck at regular hardware stores, but we have a fastener shop in town that has a huge assortment of specialized stuff, and that’s worked for me in the past when I struggled to find something I needed…)
I like these brakes so much I put them on on two bikes
What country is this where you can't buy simple metric hardware? I can walk into a local hardware store and buy M4 in stainless, chrome, zinc, or black oxide.
its an M4 shoulder bolt,you can get them on ebay if you are desperate.
Amazon too.
is there an update? did hayes react or improve the spare part situation?
No video update, but they mailed me to say they want to do better. A lot will depend on your distributor tho
See the pinned post ?
That’s unfortunate. I see they make an aftermarket lever assembly that cost shops $80. One would have thought they would just sent you one of those….crazy.
I did some looking around and found this: www.bike24.com/p2384316.html only 30 for an entire lever
@@UnicornBikes seems like that distributor was trying to rip you off. Hayes will sell you a lever on their website as well. Maybe they didn't when this video was released tho.
I also had the opposite experience. I've been able to order everything I've needed from their website for the A4s over the past couple years. Also, I think they're the best and most durable brakes I've ever used.. So not sure why you've had such a bad experience.
I think this is less about Hayes and more about the industry problem of finding small parts. And when you opt for a smaller brand that issue is compounded. And while those brakes may be awesome, you'll never have the dealer/shop support of Sram or Shimano....which both stop your bike perfectly fine.
Don't get me started. I'm currently elbows-deep in an attempt to repair a Shimano component that failed only because the company refuses to make basic parts available. You know they have warehouses full of these things; they have to, to manufacture the products. But they refuse to sell them to the public. (In this case, a simple bearing cup and an ordinary plastic dust seal. No can have. Period.)
The whole industry has this blackmail problem. That, and trendy pointless technologies forced down our throats (don't get me started on disc brakes -- I have Hayes, which is how I ended up here) have seriously diminished the joy of owning a bike.
@@RobMacKendrick There are several reasons why I don´t gel with Shimano brakes - and the fact that you cant service them is a big one.
Shimano is notoriously bad for small parts, and their brakes also suck. This is not a small company vs big company difference. It's just whether or not the brand decides to support their products.
Nope, my A4s came along with my Commencal Clash right from the store.
I'd like to upgrade my brakes soon, this is good to know.
I have had 2 sets of dominions and both work flawlessly. Best lever feel on the market and so much power!
I have read a couple of responses from Belgian Hope support guys recently.
People were asking "which crank size is that"... the response was: "make sure you are careful and get the correct size".
Also when someone had a question, the response was "stop the conversation and send the hub back" .... (that, on a hope fan facebook group)
I also had an argument with a guy from there, who claimed 180, 183, 200 and 203 rotors were all the same, and it was just a metric-> imperial conversion *thing* and I should just "calculate it myself" ... he wasn't support, just a bike guy from there ....
Not sure what's happening, maybe it's just that they don't have the brightest cookies in bike support positions !?
That said, if you want actual part support, then get Hope brakes.
Full rebuild kits, seals, tools, parts, everything is available for brakes going back years and different models.
This would never happen that you cannot find a bolt for a Hope brake.
I was thinking to buy the dominion but After this Video i definetly wont!
WOW! I wonder if they sell that bolt separately now, after all the negative press.
Thx bro
The bolts are probably the same as rsc codes
I lost mine too. I replaced it with a different bolt
I absolutely agree
I highly agree with this video. A pain in the arse to bleed, totally overrated, no shops stock pads, I had the exact same problem with the lever bolt amount other continued problem….. my advice buy HOPES
That's a big minus for these brakes..
It doesn't matter if they are good brakes if you can't get spare parts... 🤦🏻♂️
Just because of such things, only shimano! They have parts delivery on Jupiter too!
Definatelly a reason for not buying. Thanks for sharing!
Hayes, looks at Apple "Fuck you", un-phones your phone, "buy new one". Hayes "Hmmm". Hayes to customer " Fuck you", un-levers your lever" buy a new one".
Makes that buying (or NOT buying) decision easy.
That’s shocking…… I was looking at buying these brakes but will now buy Hope instead as they are known for their great customer support.
hope is worse
Well, crap. Was thinking of buying these. Maybe go with my tried and true Zee brakes instead.
Damn, thought about buying Hayes... probs not now
Jesus no wonder they are on sale everywhere!!! Stopped myself from pulling the trigger.
DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY
Hayes sent me replacement parts for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Free of charge
-Daniel Goldstein
Boulder, Colorado
specially developed bolt for this brake? really? if that's true that's absurd. But nice you solved the issue. But the bolt looks like an regular bolt, nothing special about it.
everything is fine, soon they will also add a subscription to the brakes.
This video is why I went with TRP DH-r Evo’s
I have Magura MT5 and if I upgrade it in the future, I’ll go with TRP as well.
@@travellerseko I couldn’t get along with the mt5 hc’s I had on my evil offering. Calipers always needed adjusted, and they were always noisy. MTX brake pads helped make them a bit better
you can buy a new leaver witch has that bolt.
But I don't need the lever, I need the bolt?
I have a very expense Hayes brake that decided to leak and become completely useless. So now it sits in a bag never to be used again lol
Looking at how you handle your phone id guess its your fault. Also you can get any bolt you like made for you from most engineering supply shop
Dont forget to coat the bolt against rust.
Better to invest in a Dremel....it will cut, grind, and polish.....
This is no longer true. I just got in touch with Eric from Hayes and he's helping me to replace the exact same bolt you've mentioned.
Can you send me his email to laurens@unicornreviews.net ?
Did you get a hold of any one at Hayes??
@@mr.d7429 yes, just contact tech support via email and they should be able to help. This is possibly the best brake I’ve used. I sure hope they help you out on this.
Reply from back in september:
Hi Laurens,
Thank you for your message.
We kindly ask you to contact our distributing partner in your country for your request.
You will find all our distributors by following this link - hayesbicycle.com/pages/find-a-distributor
Did you get any response? Did you get the screw or are you screwed?
IMO this is currently the best brake available. And this case changes nothing about it. Your distributer sucks not Hayes and not the a4.
I was just about to get them, my money going to hope instead.
Now they shell replacements on their site. Although a bit overpriced
I got an email from Hayes a few days ago. They claimed all was fixed now, but they didn't offer to actually send me the damn bolt lmao
@@UnicornBikes well i guess that was because you made one but still not that nice.
At least they shell replacements
also can you do a brake review now that its all good
Thanks and have a good day
I can't find the bolt or other small items here: hayesbicycle.com/collections/hayes-parts-and-accessories I'd still have to buy the entire $61 lever lmao. Also for a review these brakes are really good, can't complain much tbh
@@UnicornBikes yeah its a shame you have to get the lever but at least its something
Thank you
Love these brakes and haven’t had a problem
These are teh best brake I've ever had. As a bike tech, I see a lot of brakes, & have ridden most brands of brakes. I will only buy Hayes.
Well, you should have checked and tight loose parts on your bike, to begin with. Moreover, the screw is available on the Hayes site anyway. Also, you going to lose that screw again because you didn't use a lock-tight
you shouldnt blame hayes, but your distributor. just call the guys from hayes. with some nice words there is always a way and most of the time for free...
You had me until you said "bully them into being better". Bullying is never an option.
I'm sorry that happened to you and I agree that this is unfortunate. But maybe choose a better choice of words next time.
To me there is only one break I would buy: Shimano XT! Extremely nice quality and feel. Will not overheat (as I have experienced with other brands). Buy and forget.
only problem with them is you can't get caliper seals - after 2 years of heavy use they don't always work like they used to
Brakeless bmx, the true solution
"Chloe" strikes again!
This is ridiculous. I hate the attitude of companies. Thanks very much for the video
legit took me 2 mins max to google and find the right bolts from new zeland importer :/
Shimano are even worse on the spare parts front.
Hey dude, send me the specs of the bolt, i think i can find you one.
Button head T10, M4x0.75 6mm thread + 2mm unthreaded near the head.
@@UnicornBikes What is the shoulder diameter? (the unthreaded part)
4mm
@@UnicornBikes I found something similar online. They can also custom build. I'll try to find it in a local hardware shop nearby tomorrow.
Sorry dude: Tried my local hardware shop but when i got there i found an "out-of-business" sign :( I found a good match online. A bolt with an M4 thread, 4mm diameter, 2mm unthreaded, for hex screwdriver
Hayes should definitely watch this video. I was torn between Magura and Hayes, and now I just made up my mind
Try Magura calipers with TRP levers, mine feel amazing. (video soon-ish)
@@UnicornBikes what's wrong with Magura calipers? Why do people keep switching them?
Nothing really, many people just don't want plastic, I guess...
6:13 no threadlocker?
I mangled the thread enough by cutting the bolt. It hasn't come out yet lmao
@@UnicornBikes good point, also mad respect that you were able to implement a smart fix. BS that there is no service kit....
Sorry mate, I would have escalated it, tagged them on FB and IG, you'd be amazed how fast companies respond when they see social media rants. But all the responses below are legit. I've been riding my A4's for 2 years now w/o a single hiccup and would HIGHLY RECOMMEND them.
What do you think this video is? The sad part is, Hayes sent me an email to say that they now sell individual parts, but at no point did they offer to send me that stupid bolt. They only asked if my diy solution worked...
@@UnicornBikes other than this are the brakes still working well? maybe you did make a difference with your video at least 😁
Brakes are amazing in use yes. Nearly 2 years old now. No leaks, still smooth. only had to bleed them once.. I think Hayes made some changes to parts availability over the years.
Hope brakes you can buy everything and I mean EVERYTHING
me hope hayes company watch this video and learn from it
I don't think this was clickbait. You delievered. The title summed up the content. I would never buy from such a company.
So you're saying you're incapable of figuring out a thread, buying a thread cutting die and making your own thread from scratch using a piece of rod? K. Got it.
Sheesh, people these days need to be held by the hand for everything. It's a braking system, not an Apple product with specialized and coded parts so you can't change them without nuking your system. This comes off less like a Hayes problem and more like a you problem.
He is unbelievable.
He makes a video how he is unable to get M4 x 8 bolt.
McMaster Carr...
I'd probably make the same video if that happened to me. I've requested hayes for spare parts now just to see what happens. Note: dont forget the blue loctite just in case.
Please let me know what sort of response you got.
It’s worth noting that TRP supports their products and customers very well.
The bike industry is full of this ridiculous bullshite, for example the seals of Shimano XTR/XT spd pedals. They are worn out after each 5 rides or so, or get lost and nowhere you can buy these separately 🤨
Its not just the bike industry. Even Linus (Linus tech tips) released a vid about a brand new tech (for computer screens) that is worse than the "standard". He says it costs you more to be an early adopter.
I also think many people will tell you that XTR and Dura-Ace are for race components only. Those are expected to be lighter but also more prone to failure. It's kind of what they have done for F1 engines, that only lasted for 1 race.
at least you can get them on aliexpress, but maybe a seal shop can get the proper seal if they see the seal, so they can measure it?
@@mtbboy1993 Thanks for the input. However, I cannot find the Shimano XTR seals on Aliexpress myself. Do you have a link?
@@g_4462 Sorry I misread your comment. I thought you mentioned the Shimano brakes. I could not find anything for pedals. but you can measure and show them to a shop that sells seals, if they sell bearings, bushings they might sell seals too. I searched for ''Shimano piston seals'' you can find seals for the master sylinder, caliper, and also there are metal piston upgrades.
Just go to your local machine shop, they can make you a bolt of any kind, have them make 50 of them and then sell the to people in the situation you found yourself in, under sell them, they deserve it.
In Belgium, that would be a couple hundred euro per bolt...
@@UnicornBikes WHAT?! Wow! Machine shops are expensive in Belgium. I own machine shop here in the US if you need anything made contact me. I'll help you out.
I once asked a quote to get a keyboard case milled. €1700 for a little 30cm case
@@UnicornBikes Wow! that is excessive, seriously, even with international shipping from me would be less than ¼ the price.
I just spoke with Dan from Hayes, he stated they have a lifetime warranty from leaking and 2 years warranty for everything else. I spent about 40 min on the phone with him. Maybe you should call back and speak with someone else.
I couldn't get in touch with Hayes themselves, they told me to contact my local distributor.
@Blue Pitbull you are very lucky to get a hold of anyone at Hayes
@@UnicornBikes sometimes distributors or shops have no clue what they are talking about.
This video is very opinionated, & of course you are fully entitled to that opinion, but it is not a true representation to the product or the company as a whole, you have experienced one situation that you feel is worthy of a strong negative opinion & a video to rant about it. As expected, I have a very positive experience with both the brakes & the company, & I feel it's worth noting this as well. I am in Canada, & you are in Europe, so perhaps some distribution concerns are part of the issue, not everything is perfect.
I have these on one of my bikes, & have sold many sets to customers. I've had zero concerns, & I have had mine & actually brought them from one bike to another. Thousands of miles on them, no concerns. This video is very one sided in the opinion, & I can assure you these are issues that aren't all that worry some for riders, & should not sway your decision as what to purchase. This is not planned obsolescence, this is an unfortunate situation, & one that is avoidable (check torque & thread locker as part of regular / scheduled maintenance).
RIDICULOUS
It isn't Hayes fault you're absolutely useless in a hardware store.
If you bought the brake from hayze you can break the lever body then it will be warranted and you will have a lever for free🤫
That is a very common bolt, use McMaster carr or whatever engineering hardware supply is available at your company. What a waste of my time watching this video
Completely agree. Hayes sucks. Do not buy.
Yea that's bullshit
Shimano always wins.
nope
Disgraceful situation by Hayes. I was considering these brakes, but I will look elsewhere. My Code RSCs will allow me to buy spare parts, so I might consider these again,
this isnt hayes its the belgium distributor that is at fault