7mm-08 vs 308: NOT What I Expected On Mild Steel
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- In today's video, we will be comparing the performance of the 7mm-08 Remington to the 308 Winchester on mild steel. Testing was setup at 50 yards using A529 gr 55 mild steel mounted to Steel Sled 4.0. Thanks for watching!
*These tests are meant for entertainment and educational purposes only. Shooting steel can be dangerous, so do not try any of these tests at home!
Thats why i use .308 as my go to. Beautiful caliber
Yeah steel plated deer at 20 yrds... stretch it out a bit and the 708 shines more than the 308... but a deer will never know the difference.
@@C.D.-tz6skWell I'd disagree with the more modern 308 ammo, but the smaller bullet will always have a better SD. If you hunt past 500 yards, then maybe the 7-08 will retain a bit more energy and wind deflect, but it's really neck and neck.
@@sinepari9160 i agree! I went with the 308
The entire 308 family of cartridges is amazing. from the 243 up to the 358. Especially if you're a reloader. You have so much control, you can tailor these rounds to do pretty much whatever job you want done.
if you consider that the .22-243 middlestead, .375 raptor and .45 raptor exist and can all be made with 308 brass, you can say that the family goes all the way from .452 to .224
All 06 varieties also I have 6.5x06 Iam on my last barrel 90 gr v max at 3250 and the 140 at 2975
@@uk5671 If you're a hand loader or buy some of the high end ammo, you're right. The 30-06 does hold an edge over the 308. But in most practical applications the difference is marginal. I have a Remington 7600 an M1 Garrand and a 1917 American Enfield all in 30-06 and they're all great rifles. But that doesn't belittle the 308 in any way. The only potential problem I see with the 30-06 is that there are rifles that are 100 years old chambered for 30-06. And shooting some of the hotter ammo that's out there might cause damage to some of those classic firearms. That's less of an issue with the 308 as the oldest guns chambered for it only go back to the 1950's. Even the Springfield M1A didn't come around until 1971. If I really felt a need to significantly step up the power level, I would probably use my 300 Win. Mag. But that thing beats the hell out of my shoulder. So, as I get older it's becoming more of a safe queen. I tell you honestly, arthritis sucks.
@@uk5671and .300 Win mag is better than 30-06. It never ends, the comparison was 7mm-08 and .308.
@Gyro_pilot
Good point! It is really about application. Are you trying to drop a squirrel or a polar bear? There really is no "better" cartridge. It all comes down to what you are trying to accomplish with said cartridge.
Actually rather amazing that an everyday round can get thru 1/2 an inch of steel.
This specific test, where the bullets hit next to the edge, where the steel plate was stiffer, goes to show just how much testing can be affected by minor unexpected factors (like the support of steel sled 4.0's side walls). That's rigidity was enough to reveal night & day results.
Very true, steel sled 4.0 definitely needs a few additions to hopefully stiffen up the plate some more
@@bananaballisticsSteel sled 4.0 needs clamps on all 4 sides to hold it as still as possible
Is there any way to harden steel that's already 1/2" thick (like maybe heating it until it glows white, then dropping it in a carbon-rich quench)? To me, intuitively, it seems as though that method would only create surface-strength, while the center to remained soft. I've seen AR500 plates that are only 1/4" stop 30 06 blacktip! I still refuse to believe it, sometimes, as 06 BT is about the best one can do from a civilian position, but there's a number of video's that prove it. Anyhoo, thanks for another great installment! Love ya man (no hoe-moe)!@@bananaballistics
@ericbergfield6451, yes! Ballistics, unlike conventional chemistry, can look great on paper, and be completely wrong in the field. A good example is how the regular 55 grain FMJ will sail right through steel armor, and the 62 grain, green-tip,(which was designed to defeat armor), fails! However when you use a Tungsten core, the 62 grain SC can defeat steel armor out of an SBR at less than 2500 FPS! Also, an old WW2 Mauser (7.92 x 57) went through level 4 at a hundred yards away, and this ammo is nearly a hundred years old. Buffman Range acquired some of these 3rd Reich bullet's, and they still work to perfection!
@@ghostwriter1415green tip was designed to pen an old GI helmet. That's merely ballistic protection against artillery fragments.
7mm-08 is a great hunting round. Short barrels allow for for easy suppressor additions. Great out to 500 yards.
@rsbreeze Do you use a .30cal suppressor with them?
@drew3184 yeah or .45 cal, just needs to be rated for 308 or better.
I have several favorite calibers but I always seem to go back to the .308 time after time when picking which rifle I'm going to take hunting.
Don’t move to Ohio. Grew up hunting all over the us with 308. And ofc I move to Ohio where anything that isn’t straight wall is illegal to hunt with lol.
@@walmi328 Still that way? I had to go outside of OH to do any hunting growing up (unless I wanted to hunt with a rock, and even that was probably illegal, and I'm not exaggerating much - bows couldn't be more than 50lb pull, no composite, no recurve, no crossbows, no sling-shots, no guns absolutely no guns).
@@rtharris84 you can use guns as long as theyre chambered for a straight walled cartridges. All the other bullshit laws still apply tho.
Here’s the thing Mr. Banana Man… I was dumbfounded for the longest time about how you filmed that banana going down range in your opening segment. I FINALLY figured it out. That ‘naner was stuck on the end of a selfie stick with a GoPro attached when you teeter it out of a shotgun. Only scenario that works! Your a clever man. CLEVER! Now if I can just figure out how you do that voice. This channel has lots of hidden details that nobody notices. I’m watchin you Banana Man.
🤣 That's no voice over. That's a real man! 😅
It's a mystery how his hands work without knuckles
Having shot both, I have a 7mm-08 and my father has a .308. I would expect the 308 to hit a little harder but the 7-08 shoots flatter and longer maybe? Both great rounds. Alot of people think the 7-08 is a starter or youth round but I've seen black bear taken with the 7-08
The 7mm-08 and the 7x57 mauser have very similar ballistics. I have a 7x57 and it has harvested the two largest elk I have ever taken. They have enough power to take the largest animals on earth. Mr. Bell, an old ivory hunter showed us that.
@@russellkeeling4387 yeah he killed a lot of elephants with the 7x57
At distance a 708 will outperform a 308. But you have to get out to 1000 yards for this to take place.
The first time I shot 300 yards was with a Rem.700 in 7mm-08 at im guessing a 10" plate of mild steel. Thinking the plate would move on impact, I got frustrated thinking I was missing and confused, no splash! Last shot the plate moved! Drove down to see the impact and saw five brand new perfect holes! I'm guessing as a carpenter without a tape measure that day the plate was probably 3/8". I really thought the 7mm-08 was going to beat the .308😮 They are both a fine cartridge! ❤❤❤
This channel should have way more subscribers. Excellent content.
Share it with a gun fanatic.
@@redfaux74I have
He never once says how far he's shooting
During my forty+ years of shooting mule deer at the ranch in Montana, I never once ran into one made of mild steel. Boys, if the 308 won't drop your deer, you need to start hunting down at Safeway.
What a brilliant scientist AND this particular subject matter hit the bullseye in elucidating this rivalry that has been bandied about for 30 years at the lunch table at a prestigious small arms training center. I'm subscribing because; "Truth is beauty, and beauty is truth!"
SLDT, very good point, quite succinct!
Glad to see you using 5/8, always thought jumping to 3/4 was too much from 1/2, not much is cutting through 3/4 to begin with
*plankton voice* YES finally 7mm-08!
The 308 improved ballistically
.308 is a more powerful round than the 7mm in regards to penetration, but the 7mm is built more like the 6.5 creedmoor with aerodynamics and flatter trajectory being the goals for longer distance accuracy.
Wow I was expecting the 7mm08 to outperform the 308 too! I still THINK the 7m.08 would outperform the 308 at say 200 yards????
I'm very surprised but I'll stick with my 7mm08
It does check ballistics to 600 yards
There’s a reason the Marines use the .308 for the sniper rifle
@@kencleg7721 what about retained energy?
@@dave-d-gruntfrom what I've read, yes the 308 is "standard issue sniper rifle " but the really good snipers use a lot of other calibers. I don't know this to be fact and I don't personally know any marine snipers. Supposedly Cris Kyle used 300 win mag and 338 lapua ?
@@justanobserver530 yes there are other calibers being used. Lots of changes over the last 20 years. The .308 was the standard issue for a long time in USMC.
I've asked this of Kentucky Ballistics, Demolition Ranch, Garand Thumb and more...no response. Many people, in the US, use the 30-06. I would love to see the differences between the Remington 180 grain soft points vs the 220 grain soft points on ballistics gel. Maybe 100 vs 300 meters.
Man I second this, big time!
@@ZyklonBeast12 Appreciated!
I’ll have to see if that is something I can tackle in the future.
I have always heard that the .308 really liked longer barrel rifles. I do believe you have proved this to be true!
Your comment begs an essential question "WHAT BARREL LENGTH IS OPTIMAL FOR THESE TWO CALIBERS." WE MUST HAVE AN ANSWER!
I shoot a Kimber Longmaster Classic, it has a 24" target, Bull BBL, plus target action and bolt! I get amazing speed and accuracy! Manufactures, use short 22" bbl. with normal receivers, made for short actions, this has truly not helped the .308 reach its full potential. The .308 is an all-around great cartridge, I love it!
@@PeterKushubar As a huge fan of both Kimber and the .308, you have now successfully added one more weapon to my "want" list! Betting you drive tacks with yours too!
Actually, it's the opposite. The 308 is better in a short barrel.
I've been wrong before, and I could be wrong here, but, I think if you had shot the 7mm-08 lower down closer to the clamp like you did with the .308 I believe the 7mm-08 would have gone through as well. Up high the plate wasn't touching the sled and I think that was the difference. That little bit of "flex" of having to push the plate against the sled before going through took out just enough to stop the 7mm-08, because it went right through with ease the first two shot when the plate was tight up against the sled. Impressive from both rounds, good test. But, I'm still screaming REDO THE 7MM-08...LOL
I certainly may do the 7mm-08 again. Maybe with some lighter and faster loads lol
@@bananaballistics I hope you do, I will certainly watch the video. I like watching all your videos, sometimes there are some surprising results. I have a soft spot for the 7mm-08 even though I don't own one. The balance between power, trajectory and recoil make it a great hunting cartridge. Been thinking about building an AR 10 in 7mm-08 for shooting hogs. Would be pretty neat if Ruger came with their SFAR chambered in 7mm-08.
I agree with you, it was not a fair test because of the shot placement.
I watched a video of a press pushing though armor from WWII and then armor from today, both were more then an inch thick. The press had a pointed cone on it, and it wnet through the WWII armor like butter.
The armor of today it looked like it was going though like butter, but it was the hardened cone crushing and it didn't even mar the armor.
Been shooting and hunting with both the 308win and 7mm08rem for many years and I still can't tell the difference. Gotta admit those 150 gr Interlocks you shot was a fairly warm load.
Definitely on the upper end of where I would want to be. No pressure signs though
@@bananaballistics I feel the 308win is more efficient than people give it credit for. Whenever anyone asks me about 7-08 and 308win, I tell them the 308 is always the better choice. I have 2 Savage mod-11 for hunting, Both identical and weight the same with same scope,.. one is a 308win and the other a 7mm08rem and I can't tell ANY difference in recoil regardless of what the numbers say or others may think.
They were a max load if you check Hodgdon's.
46 .0 varget 165/168 .308 one hole .284 I like the speer 130 boattail s w 43.5 varget one hole 3 k velocity same or close to a .270 120 nosler bt bt hammer these little Texas deer just fine hogs ear shots drt built a 1:10 twist 7 mm08 20” for the blind
I can feel, see, and appreciate the difference. The 7mm-08 stands on the shoulders of the 308 and is a welcome refinement/improvement in my hands. The 7mm-08 allows me to effectively duplicate the results of 308 with harshness trimmed away.@@ZeroBoostBuick
I may have shot 1 7mm on the thickest steel just for grins. Great video.
I have a 3x6mm piece of .243 jacket in my face (right jaw) from shooting steel too close. Always be careful. Thanks for posting.
I love the .308win, every animal shot goes down quickly, I've shot Kudu, Eland, Moose, Elk, Gemsbok and many more, it works! So many people who haven't been to Africa, say it's too light for big plains game, yet every place I've hunted says .308win is great for Eland! Now I never shoot over 275 yards away, at Kudu, Wildebeest or Eland, so you need the ability to hunt close, I loathe people who shoot at sniping distance, simply not hunting! I love your videos Mr. Banana, great viewing fun! Well done, Sir!!!!!
Great episode. I’m so impressed by the results of your testing!
my friend you made my day. the only rifle I own is a .308 AK and I like seeing it win
I have a half inch thick mild steel plate, hanging in my garage, there’s a few holes in it, some from 7 mm Remington mag, and a few from 50 BMG. The 7 mm goes through it like butter.
7mm mag definitely screams through half inch
@@bananaballistics have you tested any cartridges that go through 5/8”? Would love to see you try something like a 30-378 Weatherby
Always loved the .308 ❤
how does this man only have 40.4k subscribers? i love his videos
If I have to choose between a 7mm-08 or a .308, it'll always be a .308. If I'm out withy rifle and the world goes SHTF, there's no guarantee I'll be able to find rounds for a 7-08...
But only .223 and (possibly) 30-06 are more popular than .308 Win. Scrounging for rounds would be MUCH less stressful.
You do great tests, BananaMan
That 7mm 08 is going fairly slow compared to what it’s capable of doing.
Hornady’s current data shows only 4 powders pushing that 139 grain Interlock more than 2,800 fps. Even the 120 grain bullets have max velocity of 3,000 fps (with 1 exception).
Edit to add: on the flip side, just under 3,000 fps for the .308 launching the 150 grain Interlock is *over* Hornady max for any powder.
I like the 7mm-08 cartridge a lot but that’s the facts.
@@chipsterb4946😊😅
Hornady is always low on their velocity in the loading manual.
I don't agree. I've only found one load that offers a velocity beyond 2800 fps and that load is pretty well compressed.
You should be doing "Voice Overs" & "Narration" as a career or lucrative side gig. Love the channel.
I bet there are slightly hotter 7.08 cartridges available that have a similar velocity to that 3.08 and would probably penetrate as well or better.
My favourite gun Channel on CZcams and only one I hit the bell on. Think every guy said that I never had that happen before lol. I never shot 7 mm-08before. Thanks for the awesome content cheers from Canada 🍻.
The 7mm-08 round coming out of my Remington model 7, always worked wonders with every deer I ever shot with it!
I've got model 7's in both calibers and they both do wonderful on deer
When I first started 40 years ago , i really enjoyed shooting various stuff
.308 is my "go to gun" for hunting (everything from varmints to whitetails), it never fails me. I'm glad to see the old .308 (three "O" hate) can make it through some serious steel, whether it was held right or not, LOL
I just can’t wait for the “Time to grind “ 🤣🤣 it’s in my head when I use my grinder lol
I like all his shooting videos. Banana ballistics 🍌
150 grain FMJ is available for 308 too, rather than soft point.
Used to get 7.62 NATO ~149gr FMJ with bimetal jacket. But harder to find now. (magnetic).
This is an awesome channel!!
Keep grinding!!!😂
After shooting the three eighths plate four times. The plate was stiffened up. Like putting dimple dyes in 16 gauge sheet metal. That is the reason the 308 penetrated it.
Really felt that shut up to the cicadas
Some guys have all the fun!
308 hands down my favourite hunting cartridge and a very versatile round
If you let ballistics drive you bananas, then you might end up using bananas as your ballistics.
The 7mm08 has excellent ballistics. I bought a 700 LVSF A FEW years back, but because (maybe) the flimsy stock, it just would not group. I could only find maybe 3 different rounds for the gun. You basically have to reload. At least for that firearm.
Must have been the firearm...in a model 7 it grouped well
I would never argue against the 308 Win.
5.7x28 vs steel test? Would love to see the armor piercing stuff tested too. Maybe compare it to .22 magnum?
That raises a question : How many of the other bullets, in your previous tests ,could achieve different results , just because the steel plates are supported differently - different sled (V 1 to 5 ...) -different results for the same bullets? Introducing variables, from test to test - kinda falsifies the test results, for the same bullets. Just think what will happen next version of the sled, when you will completely immobilize the steel plates (with the same system as the one used on this one - just used on all 4 sides)
I have to agree with you and I would also question, who determines how far away to shoot the plates? I'm sure that results would change as distances are increased. 7mm is just a superior round in all respects.
Dang this is controversial lol
It is definitely a work in progress. I may be able to add a support towards the top and bottom of the plate to help avoid the bending of the plates
@@bananaballistics we all appreciate the effort, you are discovering in the same time with us, too bad that the comments are limited in what they can transmit ,but thank you for your videos no matter the results- it's called evolving 😁 🍻 (personally I'm not cheering for any caliber, just here to see what are they doing, each of the ones you are presenting ,under your conditions)
You "Edwinned" yourself with that plug :D Nice work as always
Great show and thanks for the info 👍👍👍👍👍
Great video! The factor that leads many shooters to 7mm-08 is recoil. I own both in
Nearly ideny Savage rifles and
The 140 grain 7mm-08 just
Seems much easier to shoot.
I'm not recoil sensitive so...
Just another voice in the
Wilderness.
You could build a small box….say 2”x2”x2” with a small hole in the middle…..drop a rod in the hole that touches the bottom of the divot….mark rod at top of box….take measurement….subtract 2”
My first rifle was a rem model 7 7mm08. Got it at 7 years old. Shot my first deer at 8. It's an amazing rifle... but ammo is outrageous compared to 308
Appreciate the demo. Interesting results.
I own both 308 and 7mm-08, both are great deer round
Thank you.😊
Good video brother. ❤ I'm loving your content.
One thing I know I can depend on is seeing a lot of nice clean holes with you! 😅
Impressive, keep 'em coming!
can you do battle of the 30 cals on steel? 30-30, 7.62x39, x 51, 300 BO, 30-06, ect
I’ll have to see what I can work up. Although I don’t know that the 30-03, x39 and BO are contenders in that matchup lol
Your testing method is perfect.
I'm not really surprised that the .308 penetrated better. Despite its less favorable BC, it was both heavier and faster than the 7mm-08.
7mm-08 starts to outperform 308 out beyond 400 yards or so. Inside that 308 is better
If shooting that far, I'd pick something different than either of these. Lot better choices out there for long range. 308 has way better ammo availability and better hunting cartridge, so I would take the 308 if I had to pick between the two.
7mm-08 shot at 1/2" plate was shot high, definitely not braced, the .308 was shot lower closer to the clamp, more of a solid grip on the plate, would have loved to have seen 7mm-08 shot low, around same height ... DJ
Thanks so much ☺☺👍
IHMO, bullet construction is more important than sectional density. A tougher bullet will penetrate deeper and that is why M1AP is made the way it is. To make the comparison fair and the test valid, the same bullet must be used in each cartridge.
Nice job short and quick!
I'm glad you always get right to the point!
Yooooooooo. You need to re-test everything with the badass steel sled
I feel like this test was cut short. I hoped to see more, better placed shots of each round especially since it was 1/2” plate.
What if one round was loaded with a little bit more and traveling just fast enough to punch through , the 7 did go through twice .. and the 3rd round might have been loaded smaller .. in conclusion not all rounds are loaded to the exact amount .. (just how the velocity varies from round to round )
It’s possible that might have been the case
So I see that with the 7mm hitting near the top edge, where it bent the plate, and the .308 down closer to the middle, the .308 shot had more support due to a mass of plate all the way around. The plate bending where the 7mm was near the edge proved it had less support material around it. I vote it's unproven because of that.
Great vid if I'm hunting plate steel.
Love midway .., just ordered
Just came across this Video. I shoot 7mm08 Great round for what I need, great video good comparison good to see you used a cover wall. Either caliber is great
😁❤💙👏👍👌💪
308 win сильный результат !!!
Благодарю за работу.
7.62×54r test❤
Off subject but I'd love to see a specific copper 308 test most copper you use is a tipped hollow point would be nice to see you get your hands on the fort scott tui copper solid in 308
Really like the jazz music!
Your welder must be like "Mr Banana is back again😳"
Steel Sled 5.0 set up for gel block. Purpose: What does a particular round do to the bad guy hiding behind wood, steel, etc?
I wonder how much varying the velocity of a cartridge would do. It would be interesting if a bullet would penetrate better if it were traveling at a lower velocity.
I love the 7mm-08 its a bigger caliber its elk approved and it has no recoil in comparison to a .300 winmag i havnt shot a .308 so i wouldnt know to much about those vut i have shot a 7mm-08 and a .300 winmag and the 7mm is much smoother to shoot all the way around
I enjoy both my 308's
Love my 308, one of the best calibers of all time for mine.
This seems to support my belief that in order of importance it goes velocity hardness of material and SD. The SD makes a difference, but it doesn’t help that much with rigid metals.
firstly, never heard of the 7mm-08 as a starter
I would like to see how the 8.6 blackout would do in these tests. Maybe a battle of subsonics.
It won't go through anything at all. It's an oversized 22.
So you saying that a necked up 6.5 Creedmoor shooting a 280-300 grain projectile is the same as an oversized 22?
Subsonic rounds won't penetrate steel plate. Not enough momentum. Simple physics.
Great job, great show. If the velocity was the same for both, the smaller diameter usually penetrates better because of the SD, WHERE'S THE BANANAS 🍌
Wad as you call it is called the core!
Nice but you left out the 7.62X54R if I am not mistaken, which is now a proven and popular choice with some new projectiles and speeds. Thanks.
I am hoping you will do an evaluation/comparison of the new 6.8 x 51 steel casehead ammo with 80,000 psi!
With better matched lease 7mm should be faster and penetrate steel better. Speed defeats hard targets like steel better. 243 in the same case with a hot load will out penetrate steel better than both 308 and 7mm. We have to take into account that these are all the same case. The smaller the wound the more speed you should be getting. I would load these all with Varget or 4064. I used both when I shot long range 243. Also a better quality bullet such as, my favorite, Berger or Nosler will give you better penetration as well.
I never bought a 7mm-08 because I can load 7mm magnum to the same ballistics and beyond.
If you're testing alternative cartridges that fit in a 308/ lower I think you'd want to test at 400+ yards as well because that's where 308 loses stream
This guy drives me bananas, love it
Hey professor you should have shot the 308 through a bolt action also. Some of the power in the AR PLATFORM is used to cycle the rifle. Where as the bolt gun all the power goes out the barrel. Not a fair experiment Doc.
Taken Deer with both calibers….love them both. Like my kids…i cant pick a favorite.😅
Would prefer that you use the same type ammo in each gun , as the difference might be the ammo . Hornady might make a good bullet but im not sold on them making the whole cartridge . Most ballistic charts list the 708 has a higher velocity than the 308 . PS I own both 7-08 and 308. Just sayin
You need to compare the same weight projectile in both these bc they both have the same case capacity. The 139 won't have the same kinetic energy so won't penetrate the same. Got to compare apples with apples not pears
Like mentioned by another subscriber can we please see a .30 cal shoot out
Would you be interested in testing some M80a1, p80 black tip, or M993? How can I contact you ?
I’d be interested to put an inch or two of very soft padding behind the plate to see if just an inch or two of crumple zone We keep it from penetrating a much thinner steel