Are Trads Really That Bad?
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2024
- ******** NEED TO CLARIFY A STATEMENT IN THE VIDEO***********
in the video I made the statement:
“We question/reject the conciliar and post conciliar documents. Which typically have little to no magisterial authority. Including the council documents themselves”
It is not my position that the Vatican 2 documents have low or no authority. They are not dogmatic or infallible, but they are official teaching, part of the Ordinary magisterium and require our acceptance, unless it can be shown to have errors. Since it's not infallible it's not protected from error. I have said this in previous videos.
I got carried away when recording and thought I had corrected it.
When someone called me out on it in the comments I tried to defend the position, until I stopped and realized it's not what I believe. Then I just deleted the comments. Sorry to the person whose comments I deleted
This is going to be a longer than normal video for me. I have a lot to say on this topic so im not going to do as much with the visual and music, like normally do. Ill fill it with images and videos, but this is going to be focused on the audio. More of a podcast.
And realize that my defense is geared more towards defending the sspx. since that's what I attend, rather than other groups. I'm not a sedevacantist so I'm not going to defend that position but I think a lot of my defense can be applied to other traditional groups.
I always love when they act like dissolving the Latin mass groups will fix the Novus Ordo
They're bitter and deluded in thinking that.
I’m a millennial who came to the church and I’m a traditional mass going catholic. I love the tradition of the church that’s what makes it so rich.
same ❤ i am 24 . Converted only last month in Germany from Lutheranism. Try to go TLM as often as I can
@@StukaEnthusiast They are. THe one I was with last week was Mgr. Laroche, the secretary of Mgr. Lefebrve at the time. Speaking to my parish priest about it.
we trads are not going away and i can already smell the angry vaticansplainers incoming keep it up 👍
“We Trads” you’re just another Protestant
Nobody wants us to go away. They just want our representatives to be less annoying and hypocritical.
You realize a vatican splainer is actually a Catholic.
"Be vigilant in act and word, so that the faithful may grow in love for this Holy See, venerate it, and accept it with complete obedience; they should execute whatever the See itself teaches, determines, and decrees" -Inter Multiplices 7, Pius IX
Imagine being this obnoxious
"angry vaticansplainers" this is the problem, and you are feeding into it
Pray for me that I may have the option in the future to go to the TLM. There are none within a 3-hour drive from my small town.
and there are none within a 10-hour drive from my small town..
What? My friend you have the desire. Do you have the faith? Practice makes perfect. Ask God continually for help he will do it. Believe me. If you’re faithful, he’s always faithful. Read your Bible have a copy of the old missile and do what they call a dry mass. It worked in the past and I will keep you in my prayers. God bless and may our blessed lady watch over you.
One practical option you might look into is to see if there are any Eastern rite Catholic masses in your area. Although they are not perfectly traditional, they tend to be less affected by the spirit of modernity than many Novus Ordo masses.
Me neither. The closest is a 3 hour drive one-way in good weather, across an international border. I’m a senior on a very fixed income and health doesn’t allow me to attend very often. Six + hour’s behind the wheel plus Confession, Mass is difficult, but I go when able.
My friends and I are in the same situation, there’s a Latin mass less than 3 hours away
A couple years back, a very holy priest in the parish just north of me was driven away by the tolerant and loving NO types. They have since stripped away every traditional element he had introduced except the patens. (Two weeks back, the girl altar server held about 4 inches away from my face.) At the same time, my own NO parish was assigned a new priest who is slowly trying to make the mass more reverent: he banned heretical hymns, he sent the choir back up into the choir lift, and uses incense during one mass on Sundays. Already people have left because that "doesn't fit my liturgical style."I've been screamed at for privately expressing the opinion that women shouldn't be lectors and altar servers, and what traditional Catholic who attends a NO hasn't been shamed or even denied communion for receiving on the tongue during the past few years?
If trads are often angry and judgemental, those are clearly faults shared by progressive Catholics too.
Keep up the good fight. The ancient traditions will return.
I guess it’s the area or towns, we live in.
I moved to a small rather rural town and there’s absolutely not one trace of Latin here.
The relatively small city I moved from, the Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus Dei as well as Benediction were prayed in Latin, the rest of the mass was in English, and the congregation loved it.
In the small rural town, it’s a no go.
The short statement at 6:10 mark was a very welcome affirmation. This (2024) marks the beginning of my third year diving deeper and learning more about Catholicism. [I'm a slow learner] I will, with Gods help, begin the journey; beyond reading and occasional attendance to local parishes, toward formal reception into The Church. Thank you for your content and perspective.
Come home, brother. I'll see you there. God bless.
As an Ecclesia Dei Catholic, I broadly agree, although not entirely. The root of the problem with the progressives in the matters of pastoral positioning, in my opinions, is that they want Catholicism to be easy. They think it will make Catholicism more attractive. Take feminism for instance, steadying fast to the traditional catholic patriarchy is hard both for women and men alike, because they have to commit to the relationship and fulfil their obligations. The progressives always undermine what precisely makes the relationship stronger. And they do it on every issue. They weaken the obligations to be a Christian in good standing, then it favors crinkly situations to occur more often. And then they decide to lower the bar even further in order to adapt to these twisted situations. And it goes on and on...
Excellent point.
I’m a NO parishioner, though I’ve always been blessed with trad parishes. Been debating going to a Latin mass as the other parishes slowly get with the “times.”
I’ve gotten the same label for presenting the Church’s historical teaching on penance and the death penalty among other things. So I absolutely sympathize with the trads. We uphold the Church and are treated like strays for it.
Thank you for defending the SSPX! Down here in Texas we are growing in numbers.
This was a banger… when you coming on my show? Can be audio only for you so you can stay anon
I'd love to be on your show, I dont have to be anonymous, Im just low tech. It'll have to be on my phone.
But it can be video, if we can do that
I'm looking forward to this!
I cant wait.
That would be great
Please do it!
ST. AUGUSTINE: “Apart from those moments when the Scriptures are being read or a sermon is preached, when the bishop is praying aloud or the deacon is specifying the intentions of the community, is there a time when the faithful assembled in the church are not singing? Truly, I see nothing better, or more useful, or more holy that they could do.”
When I was an Army Recruiter, I would "feel, felt, found" every day. Worked great.
Tbf i seen both Trads (mostly online) and N.O guys that talk badly about the Pope and the council, me personally i just follow in good faith that im where I need to be (even if its the Norvus Ordo), the gates of hades will not prevail regardless of the smoke of confusion, slanders, scandals. I will submit to the Pope even in times of my confusion and doubts in good faith that they wont lead me astray and the Catholic church if thats what it means to be a follower of Christ then so be it. Im just apart of the laity and I just want to make it to heaven and spread the gospel in hopes that others come to the true church for their salvation simple as that. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. John 21:16, peace be with you all
I’ve been in the TLM community for about 4 yrs now, I’m a cradle catholic, and was in Bible study class with a deacon, saw a video of an FSSPX mass and ask the deacon if there was a traditional mass around, he said no, I googled for one and found it (FSSP) 50 minutes away from me, I went there and was the best experience I had in years, and angry knowing that it was taken from me, while I was always looking for sacred liturgy, I’ve met the most knowledgeable people there one of the holiest priests.
I try to invite more people into it, but as you say they’ve heard that it’s a schismatic movement.
when someone is harsh with me saying something is a sin or bad. i take it as at least they care enough to correct me and tell me something is wrong instead of being quiet and watching me fall in the pit.
Excellent presentation.
¡Buen análisis como siempre hermano! ¡Viva Cristo Rey! ✝️ 🇻🇦
WAAAAAAIT! The Dimond bros are former protestants?? Never knew that. Learn something new every day!
I can often spot Protestant converts to Catholicism by how they think. I welcome them warmly and many are good, but they don't think the same. For example, I could NEVER leave the Church where my family has been for over 1000 years. Its not even possible.Even if I can only get Novus Ordo, I go to visit my Lord Jesus Christ. I grew up in the Old Mass and even at 10 years old felt robbed of our beautiful Church. There are churches here that claim to be Traditional but when I go, they are no where near what I remember and speak a lot of English and are very watered down. But we need more priests. Good ones. I pray for this every day.
Me too. Protestants are logical and do study of the Church fathers, history, the bible. Catholic converts to protestanism are more emotional: I learned the true Gospel, the Church is the Whore of Babylon, the Pope is the Antichrist, the Insquistion, the Crusades, Fox's Book of Martyrs..yadda yadda.
I do agree with what you say. Although my family left the church before I was born. I read myself into the church and ask God for guidance and I was given it. My family came to North America from France 350 years ago and I saw almost 7 years ago the traditional ordination in the cathedral in Meaux France. Where are my family came from? All this gave me assurance. Of my faith. And yes. History is important. It’s unfortunate. Some people don’t have the capacity of finding their ancestry going back 1000 years. Like yourself I can. Lots of documentation. So, my friend keep the faith and keep on studying. It’s for your benefit and my benefit that we get the love and serve God and our fellow man in the church that he founded. God bless.
@@gerardducharme2146Mine came from France to Canada in 1603 and 1604. Very religious and the masses were amazing! I believe it was so Medieval in Canada because they didn't experience the French Revolution that turned France secular. ❤❤❤
All Protestants come from Catholic families if you go back far enough. In my experience, converts from protestantism are better versed in the Bible and take the religion more seriously than cradle Catholics. I not only welcome them but I encourage them to take leadership roles - consider our host here, a former protestant. I say this as a Venetian whose family has been Catholic for like 600 years more than yours.
@@SebastianE30 that’s good and wholesome. My family came 350 years ago but I can trace my family back to the times of the crusades and even fight in the crusades still it is very interesting. It’s unfortunate that I’m not saying this to be harsh on anyone but the Venetians did some trade unfortunately, with the Muslims I have an aunt who’s from Italy who am I uncle married? Their last name was Borghese and you probably know about them. Anyhow, keep the faith my friend. I should add horrible 50 years in the 1500s my family converted to Calvinism. And before they were able to come to Canada they had to revert and my family were already business people dealing with furs, and shipping equipment. It is amazing. With what our ancestors worked out in life. And the faith they had God bless. And I’m not aware of the Calvinist side which more likely could’ve happened. They traded also with the Muslim. And unfortunately, they were turncoats. They sold out France to the Muslims. If you can find it, look up Turkish-Calvinism. You will definitely be shocked. Take care.
"Retvrn to 1950s" is the wrong way and not very Traditionalist. Why would we want to return to Kennedy Catholicism? It was a previous height, sure, but when you really dig into the details it was not very high overall. We had a good mass and the numbers were strong but most people were dead spiritually. They didn't actually believe in God, and that was true for laypeople and priests alike, which is why so many of them fled right after things got a little looser.
What we need is to drop American ideological "conservatism" and embrace authentic Catholicism against capital "L" Liberalism. The real height of the Church in the Middle Ages between the darkness of Pagan Antiquity and the darkness of Liberal Modernity should be our idealistic vision. Real living, thriving spirituality that converted continents; true respect for authority in an order of natural hierarchy where everyone knew his place; social peace founded upon the military might of the knightly class; the twin pillars of Christendom: the Papal States headed by the Pope and the HRE led by the Emperor; powerful and precise theology and morality; true freedom of the working man where most of his year could be spent on living life and loving God, rather than slaving away for some degenerate Capitalist tyrant in a corporate office or factory.
Many of the people who fetishize the degenerate and fallen 1950s are just garden variety, mainstream American "conservatives" who want to do "trad" stuff because it's in line with their political ideology. But, then they'll start spouting off the most heinous, seditious and denigrating to the Church things about the Church and the Pope to thousands of people online, which would've gotten them censured, jailed (like Galileo) or executed by the Church during our glory days. They do this because they are Liberals who like traditional aesthetics but in the entirety of their lives have drunk the poison of Enlightenment heresies. They aren't actually Traditionalists.
Sacred Tradition is not optional as a Catholic. This novus ordo religion that came out of the judeo masonic revolution of the 1962-65 council is not the catholic religion. This seems like the prophesied false ape of the True Catholic Church with all the externals but void of anything supernatural. Know what the true Church has always taught and condemned so as not to be led astray.
Well said. Well done. 👏🏼
We need to start saying "rad mods" because the modernist influence in the Church that has caused a drastic departure from the Faith is radical, whereas, believing, praying, attending a mass, and living like Christians did for almost 2,000 years is the precise opposite of radical.
Fantastic video brother. Lets get a I miss Christendom and Kennedy hall collaboration video soon.
Also, correction. There has never been an official doctrine that unbaptized babies go to limbo. That was a theory that Thomas Aquinas came up with. But there was officially no teaching on it. Pope Benedict XVI also made an encyclical on babies going to heaven even if unbaptized.(I know it's not an infallible document but it has every ground of a good opinion as Augustine's and Aquinas' commentaries about the subject.)
One of your best videos yet. This one honestly was a help to me in my life. May we all be one…✝️☦️
How would you feel if your Novus Odo mass was canceled? I don't hate NO mass attendees.
Asking for the Body of Christ that I belong to to realize I am a part of you like you are me. One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Exactly! Francis reign of terror where he will bend every teaching and rule to bring in gays and others while banning faithful Catholics from attending mass is diabolical.
Is he suggesting that the novus ordo be cancelled? It was in fact the old Mass that was cancelled (twice!) and its adherents deemed schismatics.
I wouldn't mind because as someone who travels l know that they are all different in trivial but distracting ways. A reverent Mass l would miss.
The Latin Mass was perfectly sublime, it was everything else in Catholicism post war that was lacking, eg the schooling wasn't teaching apologetics, dignified identity and community.
I also love my NO brethren, what gets to me is the hierarchy forcing it, we have the numbers and the faith , and given time it would go back to the TLM because of the decline of the NO attendance. Look up sunk cost fallacy that to me is an analogy of why the NO is still being forced.
I am very happy at my parish Novus ordo mass. I am glad that people can choose which they prefer. A couple was at our parish who left to the Latin Mass I miss them but we are still friends. I really can’t see why not. My parish is extremely faithful and have an excellent priest.
🇻🇦THERE'S ONLY 1 HOLY CATHOLIC & APOSTOLIC CHURCH🇻🇦
Currently an organist at a NO Diocesan church, but I’m slowly becoming disillusioned with it and think I will eventually resign. It’s been a long time coming that I am seeing the problems of the NO structure and liturgy (communion in the hand, lay lectors and participants, low quality music, etc.)There is a Sedevacantist chapel (Sanborn’s group) only a few minutes away from where I live, or an SSPX chapel and FSSP chapel 45ish minutes equidistant. Please pray for my discernment.
What a blessing. You could talk with the priest there and hit him with any questions you may have. I will pray for your discernment.
@@littlerock5256Appreciate your prayers and comment, for it may just be the push I need to go and check it out.
@@littlerock5256My comment got removed for some reason, but thank you for your comment and prayers.
@@winterman7559 You are quite welcome. Remembered you in my rosary this morning.
I also have had comments removed, predominantly those referring to the eastern schismatics or to infidels.
I have found a home with the FSSP, and the FSSP priests I have met are very knowledgeable and kind. Would recommend speaking with one of their priests - Ave Maria.
Great work, keep the videos coming. God bless you
To go to the NO and to somehow think it's objectively better than the Latin rite, there has to be something seriously wrong with you
Scott Hahn once said if you have the theology right but if you don't live a Christ like life wats the point
Please preach it. Im so sick of so called descerning N.O Catholics viciously saying those of us worshipping Latin Mass of the ages to be in schism. Meanwhile the N.O practises all over the world are full blown in error and schism but thats always ignored. Its becoming so pathetic i cant even be bothered with them anymore. Praying from a distance.
Great video
God only knows where this is all going
I disagree with many things in this video, but great work. I really love the points you did becouse I have heard so many objections to traditional catholic teachings
Can you do a video on Medjugorje and other Marian apparitions?
He has
My local TLM parish got shut down by the Bishop. Pray for me and pray for the church.
The catechism of the council of Trent says mothers should love to stay at home. Novus ordites love to ignore this because they are worldly.
Son question. How do you know which you fall under?
A youtuber by the name of Kyle is a former trad catholic that is now an orthodox, I recommend watching his reasons why he converted to orthodox and debunk him. I once watch his video regarding purgatory and boy oh boy, he misrepresent what purgatory is
Any person or group, that our enemies want to take out, will be slandered and vilified. This is to turn public opinion away from them to justify taking them out. The ones they want to stay, they call out hate speech, if you oppose them.
5:23 Well, if the "abandoned" spouse was an abuser, then it was that spouse's fault, almost by definition. But if you're leaving your spouse for another person, well, as a certain singer would put it, you might not have cheat but you're still a traitor.
I think this idea that Catholics don’t read the Bible is very pervasive in Protestant circles I just recently saw that being said at a church wow. I really want to be catholic and I want the tradition given to the church I pray I find it and never let go
I go wherever I can... these are tough times. I pull on a lot of doors
Tenete Traditiones
All thanks and praise be to God.
When was a catholoc saved vs when does christ tell nicodemus one is saved.
Most of what I've heard against trads are straw man type arguments, or just completely false statements about, dare I say, us. I've been to Latin Mass at 7 or 8 different locations and I've been to the new order in I guess about as many. People are people where ever you go. I've seen more socializing in church before Mass at the n.o. in one or two locations, and across the board the people get to praying before mass at the Latin Mass much more. There are more people who stay and pray after Latin Mass also that I've seen. But the charitible organized activities and the sense of community are about the same. I'm very suspicious of those who want to divide trad from n.o. I think the more a faithful n.o. attendee learns about tradition, the more they are likely to see the problems and the solutions as trads do. I see no real chance of the vice versa.
There are so many problems in the NO. I find it ironic that many of these claims against Trad Catholics are so present in the NO. I would say that it is worse in the NO all around.
At my parish we have had some good priests, but they can only do so much.
The SSPX was incardinated (incorparated) in Diocese of Freiburg, Switzerland by the Ordinary of that Diocese and granted Canonical recognition by Cardinal Wright of the Congregation of Bishops in 1970. SSPX priests are validly ordained Catholuc priests with all the rights of a Catholic priest to admister the Sacraments.
By this logic, all Eastern Orthodox are actually Catholic.
Ratzinger said V2 was an anti syllabus. Novus ordites always ignore the fact that they are in opposition to the v2 popes while criticizing trads for not following the Pope.
Yeah I remember watching. I show on CZcams. I think it was Kevin's show he was interviewing a woman who grew up the SSPV and clothing was one of the reasons why she said she left and Kevin also claims to be an ex trade and grew up then in a FSSP church
I’m not much of a tad, but I will agree that communion in the hand is mallakoi. I went to a church that did that once and it was so offputting as if they didn’t actually love Jesus., was how I felt
They can be.such as an automatic excommunication by their actions.
The melodramatic complaining and criticizing by ex-trads or post-trads stems partly from an insecurity with “muh blackpill”. They really do think “trads” are on a one way train to either Sedevacantism or Orthobroism. They don’t like that trads are “always angry” and seemingly on the edge of despair. They want to deny there is a crisis so that they can sleep at night. It feels good to give in to the normalcy-bias and just do the “trust the experts / everything is fine” routine. But what most of these ex-trads and post-trads overlook is not all trads are pessimistic or defeatist. We also look forward to brighter days and a future triumph and restoration. We also have the peace of Christ because we see with the eyes of eternity. Trads are whitepilled and are also able to be lighthearted, broad-minded and forward-looking. I look at Timothy Flanders and Scott Hahn as to big examples. Heck, even Taylor Marshall. He’s never given up or said to leave the Church. He believes we are living out Fatima prophecy.
Whenever you argue novus ordo mass the best response they have is: it’s valid.
@@orangemanbadValid but is it worthy ?, I think another reason for the NO animosity is that we have the growing numbers and the courage of our convictions. That they are still trying to sell this by force with the weak argument that it has not been properly implemented is sad and funny as they cannot/will not explain who , why or how it went bad.
This is pure cope. The complaints are that you’re smug and obnoxious, as your comment affirms.
@@navsquid32 I also find most of trad talking heads unbearable and cringe. But if I have to choose between them or Lofton, I’m taking them. Lofton isn’t smug and obnoxious? lol please.
@@navsquid32 I actually think you might have misread my original comment. I fixed it so I’m not misunderstood
Can someone define “Cafeteria Catholicism” for me?
It means you agree only with the teachings of the Church that you like, as opposed to all of them like you're supposed to. You pick teachings from the Church like you pick food from a cafeteria to put on your plate
According to Michael Lofton yes we are ignorant and foolish. To be on the moral high horse some of these "Catholic content creators" .
Thank you for your content.
I would not give any credibility to Lofton, look at his post on the pacamma using an Eastern Rite Catholic deacon to justify and defend that evil thing.
Maybe if so many trads didn't act like complete hypocritical jackasses, he wouldn't think that way about us.
Michael “Seraphim” Lofton is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, sarcastic and sneaky and against all devout clergy and laity so Catholics beware!
Can you do a series debunking Michael Lofton? I think his arrogant rambles have gone long enough.
Good idea.
Amen !
Michael Lofton doesn't attack Traditional Catholicism but those Trad Caths that act terribly. And there are a lot of those.
@@baldwinthefourth4098 Or trying to defend the Pope when he needs to be corrected in an issue. Who's the real supporters of the Pope now?
I mean he attacked Brian Holdsworth, Raymond Arroyo and Michael Knowles in regards to Pope Francis. And the aforementioned all act nicely and charitable in their opinions.
@@JustUsCrazyBoyz When did Michael Lofton defend the Holy Father when the situation he was in was indefencible?
What if we admitted that everyone and every group has problems and we should work together, through God’s grace, to fix our shared and differing problems?
depends on the trad
Please be careful you don't end up like Steve Skojec.
TLM parish is lovely and just Catholic teachings and real people and families living Gods ways because they can see the erros and rejects them. Praise God for SSPX.
The SSPX is getting cozier to the novus ordo.
@@StukaEnthusiast The SSPX tramples on Catholic teaching regarding the papacy, which is not traditional.
The 1962 missal, which had the Canon altered and was only used for 2 1/2 years, is also not traditional.
LOL... I am proud Trad... I convince protestant to Convert to Catholicism, but at the same time Convince them not to follow the Pope and Vatican 2... I live in this world of Dichotomy... The Catholic church is the true church, but we should not follow the Pope.... 🤣
"As we read in another place, the person who abandons the teaching of the Roman pontiff cannot be within the church" -Lateran V
However if the Roman Pontiff starts giving out blessings to men who sodomize each other, then you know the Roman Pontiff is not within the Church himself.
Roman pontiffs have to hold, defend and teach the Faith.
@@littlerock5256 They all have and all will.
@@matthewschmidt5069 Valid ones do...since VCII, not so much.
@@littlerock5256 On what authority can you say that? Your own? That's called Protestantism.
Limbo is not a true church teaching and if you say that unbaptized babies do not go to heaven than you are wrong after all can you see Jesus who said let the children come to me say to a baby you can never see me you can never be with me because you were not baptized. I can't and besides you are forgetting one thing that Jesus is the high priest and he can baptize babies if he wants and further Jesus is not bound by any sacrament and no one can tell Jesus what he can an cannot do because he is God.
Council of Florence
The souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straight away to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.
Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, since no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the devil and adopted among the sons of God, "
Council of Trent
If any one denies, that infants, newly born from their mothers’ wombs, even though they be sprung from baptized parents, are to be baptized;
or says that they are baptized indeed for the remission of sins, but that they derive nothing of original sin from Adam, which has need of being expiated by the laver of regeneration ( which is baptism) for the obtaining life everlasting, - whence it follows as a consequence, that in them the form of baptism, for the remission of sins, is understood to be not true, but false, - let him be anathema.
Ok. Thats why we believe in Limbo.
No torture, no demons, no fire, natural happiness, access to the angels and saints
@@imisschristendom5293 God's Mercy is as Infinite as His Majesty. Unbaptized Infants go to Heaven because they're under the Age of Accountability, even Father Chris Alars agrees with me, you are preaching Jansenism.
Thank you for the great program. And yes about the Orthodox I was asked why not become a member of the Orthodox I simply stated I’ve been Catholic baptized Catholic and I’m going to remain Catholic. Why should I join ? I Schismatic Group, when I go to the traditional Latin mass. Thank you sir keep up the good work God bless.
If we claim to love God then we love truth. If we love truth then we will be graced to know Traditional Catholic teachings and liturgical practises. Those who claim to see the crisis in the church and yet remain within the N.O parishes for sentimental reasons are deluding themselves and the ones happy to viciously attack Traditional Catholics. There is only one true, Catholic apostolic Church and its not the one making changes based on globalist agenda. God doesnt change and deep down we know whats what but as StJohn explains chapeter 1 the darkness can not fathom the light. Time for God to allow heresy to abound so we are all caused to choose a side. But seriously cant we all relate to seeing and waking up to the modernised liberal sell out Catholics and restore the faith.
Popes have their place. There’s only one true church and it’s the Catholic Church ❤
I attend a (very reverent) NO parish, but I live my life as a traditionalist with participation in the sacraments, penances and mortifications, traditional prayers (LOH, Angelus, etc).
I understand critiques of some NO masses. But, I’ve also attended Latin masses that were irreverent. The priest mumbled and rushed through the entire liturgy.
Here’s my point - just because something is done in Latin doesn’t make it automatically reverent. I’d put my NO mass up against any Latin mass anywhere. You can be a trad and attend NO. It’s TLM trads (and, yes, SSPX) who think that since their masses are in Latin, they are more pious than everyone else, AND WILL LET YOU KNOW ABOUT IT EVERY CHANCE THEY GET.
Who is more reverent - the guy who lives a trad life and attends NO, or the guy who goes to TLM and has never heard of the liturgy of the hours and can’t recite the Angelus from rote, let alone reciting it at 6, 12, and 6?
Edit PS: For the pompous trads who beguile the Bogus Ordo, what’s your favorite sermon that Jesus gave in Latin?
I think when i see rtf mike carrying on like a toxic fool, i can kind of see why trads get a bad name. It seems like its all about how "trad" he is and how less than trad others are. It becomes a dumb purity spiraling game
Following the heresies of Francis is schismatic.
Repost this video btw
Discounting emotion when it comes to religion...really? My mother was born dirt poor and hungry in southern Italy before WW2. She had a natural desire to love, know and understand God from a young age but the abuses and culture in the church was not very welcoming to put it nicely. Please tell me what "research" she was supposed to do. She did ask questions alot like: why latin when nobody understands what is being said or why it was forbidden to read God's word on her own, so the priest ordered her father to beat her more. Emigrated to America in the 60's and found a loving Jesus in a protestant church: do you blame her? You converted recently so you're on fire for your faith but you are taking a severely uninformed and light stance on the oppressive culture of the Catholic church in Europe over the millennia: America in the 50's is not quite the same thing with all due respect. Now I'm the one gravitating toward Catholicism because of the spiritual need for something Holier than the "rock concerts and motivational speech" on Sundays and now I come across these issues I never knew existed before this year, but hey do make sense because of my mothers life experience. I get everything you're saying, but some things are a little too narrow minded and self righteous.
Have you ever been to a TLM ? they have missals to explain it to the reader. Don't let the past experience of others dissuade you, questions are good and natural, find a traditional community for fellowship and instruction.
I have spoken to a number of people who left the Catholic faith because of unjustifiably harsh treatment on the part of priests or nuns. Your mother’s story is an example of people using their authority, but lacking the love Jesus commanded his followers must exercise. “Not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” When I returned to the faith, I sought out the Latin Mass because I recognized the Protestant-like new mass as insufficient. I’m not claiming everything was hunky-dory pre-Vatican II because it clearly was not, but this new manifestation of Catholicism is increasingly catering to our secular/pagan world. I’m just trying to be faithful to the teaching of scripture and tradition the only way I know how.
With due respect to your dear mother but referring largely to others who have abandoned Lord Jesus Christ and His-established One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, it is to their own downfall as they do so because of a weak/uninformed man or weak teaching and then gravitate to 1 of the 30-40,000 and still counting manmade groups built on sand, not churches, that lack truth, tradition and thereby the Sacraments and live lacklustre lives of just fellowship and spirituality and often leaves them languishing. Yet miraculously many of them have returned sooner or later to the Catholic Church and regret losing precious time away from it.
*ULTRA* Traditionalists preach Jansenism. God's Mercy is GREAT, and Unbaptized Infants go to Heaven because they are under the Age of Accountability.
At Lefebvre's last days or weeks, he celebrated his Mass, non una cum, not mentioning JPII. Check with his SSPX confessor about this truth. He was a Sedevacantist until he changed his mind and fear his salvation that he went back to his original position before it's too late. But he neglected to recant all his errors but it may be because of his physical condition, not his fault. I hope he saved his soul.
Yes, they are that bad. They're creating more evangelicals every day.
Are faithful Catholics who just prefer TLM bad? No. Are prideful "trads" who feel the need to bemoan the Novus Ordo every chance they get bad? Yes.
What is constructive criticism, and what isn't? and what is destructive criticising? Theologically speaking, what is "bad" Have we lost the distinction between the sin and the sinner here? Are we simultaneously setting up a false equivalence here? between 2 situations that are very different, have different consequences?
Please elucidate your thoughts on this issue.
👍🏻🙏🏻@@veronica_._._._
Now do the drama merchants that make a living "bemoaning" the trads every day🎉
There is a channel here that relies almost exclusively on AI answers to create his content. Much has been helpful for analyzing sophistry, and he claims he stands up for Catholicism and the Jews. Very recently, he turned on Traditional Catholics and attacking SSPX. It was a shock to see. The Catholic AI he’s using for his positions is Magisterium AI, the “official” AI of the Vatican, which has NO INFORMATION on pre Vatican 2 Magisterium and Dogma, insisting that those upholding the full deposit of the faith in Tradition and Scripture are in schism.
This same channel attacks any challenge or question of his conclusions with insult, ugly ridicule, and demeaning sarcasm.
@I Miss Christendom can destroy these false arguments and accusation since these videos are built upon the incomplete information in Magisterium AI.
Now, I can’t watch any of his content because of this disrespectful behavior. Please take Lloyd De Jongh ‘out to the woodshed’ on these erroneous and biased videos.
Mixing truth and lies to misdirect minds is the equivalent of feeding rat poison to their consciousness.
I’ll buy the popcorn. I pray for all haters to humble themselves and convert.
Viva Cristo Rei!
I don't trust the sspx but I trust the fssp. Glad trads for the win... be a glad not a mad.
I’m a sede and it’s the saddest form I know
There is nothing sadder than being a schismatic who is no better than protestants.
Trads are really lost like I was (when I was a trad until just Oct 2023) before I eventually understood the basic errors of “traditionalism”.
First, the irony of traditionalists is the assumption that we can disobey the pope as long as we stick to “tradition”. The problem with this view is that by rejecting papal teaching, governing and sanctifying, we place ourselves above the pope and indeed the Church.
Further, another erroneous view os that the Church no longer follows tradition, when tradition is an intrinsically indispensable part of the Church and can never be abandoned by Her because Christ has safeguarded the Church and papacy from ever proliferating serious errors to the faith.
Which is why Perennial tradition of the Church says that all magisterial teachings (such as Vatican Two Council documents, and the New Order of the Mass) MUST be assented to. None can be rejected, even if such teachings are non-definitive.
Finally, traditionalist end up making Tradition and the TLM their Sola, as do Protestants who make Scripture their Sola I.e. Sola Scriptura. This means tradionalist are really Protestants dressed up as Catholics.
The graces we receive do not come to us solely through the Mass, but first through Peter (the pope) and through those in full communion with the pope, like bishops and priests, then through the Mass which THESE specific bishops and priests celebrate.
Cann. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.
Here what the popes say on dissension from the pope:
- “Wherefore it belongs to the Pope to judge authoritatively what things the sacred oracles contain, as well as what doctrines are in harmony, and what in disagreement, with them; and also, for the same reason, to show forth what things are to be accepted as right, and what to be rejected as worthless; what it is necessary to do and what to avoid doing, in order to attain eternal salvation. For, otherwise, there would be no sure interpreter of the commands of God, nor would there be any safe guide showing man the way he should live." (Pope Leo XIII, SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE.)
- "Furthermore, the discipline sanctioned by the Church must never be rejected or be branded as contrary to certain principles of natural law. It must never be called crippled, or imperfect or subject to civil authority. In this discipline the administration of sacred rites, standards of morality, and the reckoning of the rights of the Church and her ministers are embraced." (Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos)
- "The sum of truth is a proof easy for faith: the Lord says to Peter, ‘feed my sheep.'” So the sheep of Christ should consider safe and eat cheerfully the food to which Peter’s voice and authority directs them; but despite any beauty and charm, they should shun as harmful and plague-ridden, what this voice forbids them. Those who do not comply are certainly not to be counted among the sheep of Christ." (Pope Pius VII, Diu Satis.)
- “Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey - that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; one does not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of others, however learned they may be, who differ from him. For however great their learning, they must be lacking in holiness, for there can be no holiness in dissension from the Pope.” (Pope St. Pius X, allocution of 18 November 1912, AAS vol. 4 (1912), 695).
This is the recognize and resist error, not held by all "traditionalists" -- a word without a set definition.
This, and all papal teaching, applies to a valid pope and not a false claimant, of which the Church had approximately 40 prior to Vatican II.
@imissChristiandom i think you all should look at this wholistically the catholic church is universal so look at it from a universal lens this trad vs novus ordo BS isn't pronounced in Africa infact we don't generally understand what the pre- vatican or latin entails and most of us dont attend it cause it's basically a foreign language but the you see the novus ordo that is what we have come to know and love and it is so in most parts of Asia too so i don't understand what is with the west and disturbing themselves with which liturgy is right or wrong. Wake up!! That is not the issue the issue is doing this the right way making sure no liturgical abuses, following church teachings and scripture and basically living out our lives as Christians. I think you should focus more on teachings and doctrines of the church and stop all this trad vs modern catholics or whatever it is called. Dont why the west always messes things up always!
Trads sounds more and more protestant by the day. The most important tradition is the unity of the church under the chair of Peter. The magisterium should be obeyed especially if you don't agree with it.
Pope Francis has taught virtually nothing authoritative. I’m not taking his airline comments with random journalists as dogma, sorry.
Why do you love Francis more than Christ and his Church? If you really knew anything about the Magisterium you'd realize he doesn't have the authority to change the Church's traditions, or Scripture.
@@nl396 Obedience is better than Sacrifice.
Trads or traditionalism is not bad thing in fact traditionalism is very much a beautiful thing.
The issue here is radical traditionalism.
What is the definition of "radical traditionalism"?
@@littlerock5256the problem is far right...same type of argument. It's vague and used to label undesirables as bad.
@@PhillipCummingsUSA
You lost me with the second sentence
The truth is the seat is vacant
Now I wouldn't say that. Francis is without doubt a bad Pope (possibly even a traitor) but he's still the Pope. We can't let him push us into the sin of sedevacantism.
@@nl396 not a sin the seats been vacant before
@@RZApologist So you're a sedevacantist then? I'm honestly sorry for you.
@@nl396 and I feel sorry for you , you have a gay anti pope that gives same sex blessings yet you feel sorry for me ?
@@RZApologist I would choose Pope Francis rather than the *ABOMINABLE* Wicked Pope. Pope Alexander the VI or Pope Alexander Borgia.
Who cares? Just stay with the church.
Return to the one Holy catholic Apostolic Church of the Holy Fathers and the Ecumenical council's decision
Since 1054 the Pope and the Rome have fallen into Hersey
I Consider myself a moderate trad not a rad trad i m not against novus ordo and i think we should have both latin mass and novus ordo and i dont have a latin mass here in the brazilian country and i fully support the carismatics since the best Catholics in my town the ones that follow the church teachings and are faithful and a famous brazilian carismatic monk frei Gilson made lots and lots of people pray the rosary at 4 AM with him i understand the rad trads but i disagree and also i believe the church is in difficult time as it was several times in history But the Church is infallible and can t make a full council be an error
Also you are strawmanning the novus ordo we think that the liberal theologians are schismatics too and we never approve the german bishops disobeying the pope
"Trads" especially SSPX can be divisive and proud from what I have experienced.
There is nothing wrong with Novus Ordo, and The Church has spoken.
Those who believe that the same Jesus Christ is not in the Holy Eucharist in a Novus Ordo Mass are wrong and worse they are against the One True Church.
There's a right way to do the Novus Ordo and there's a wrong way.
There were concerns about our culture long before Vatican II occurred.
I'm an orthodox Catholic convert myself. When I go to Mass it's Novus Ordo, and I know there are abuses that happen in certain parishes, but there are also great Prosta who conduct the Novus Ordo properly and it's beautiful.
If you want to have a Traditional Latin Mass, that's great. I'm all for it. Just don't act like it's the only valid form because it's not.
And don't blame the collapse of our culture on the form of Mass we have or Vatican II.
Did Pope John Paul speak out against Novus Ordo? Did Bishop Fulton Sheen, Mother Angelica? All of whom I see as great examples of Saints.
Have your Traditional Mass, just don't try to invalidate ours. It's completely out of context and the purpose of this rebellion is to divide The Church and cause scandal.
Catholic middle grounders are toxic jerks as well. Even more so than the trads at times.
I attend a Novus Ordo mass and it’s alright, but some of the songs they play feel a little Protestant-like. Also, it’s my dream to attend at least one Latin mass in my life.
@@crusader2112 What does it mean for a song to "feel protestant-like"? Can you elaborate?
@@davidrojas6457 Y’know usually they have a guitar, and they sing a kind of a weird way. Basically, I prefer more traditional music and chants as opposed to contemporary and to be fair they do have traditional music sometimes.
The trads are not trying to invalidate your Mass; the Pope is trying to invalidate our Mass.
I have no objection to a well-done NO and have attended quite a few 😊
I am sorry to say that but Trads are trapped in a logical fallacy. They hold on a tradition including the dogma that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
So their rebellion against the Roman Pontiff is biting them in the butt.
There is only one solution to that paradoxical situation : Reevaluating the notion of Roman Pontiff.
There was no Roman Pontiff in the early Church.
In fact there was a Roman Pontiff, the Emperor Nero, and he was persecuting the Christians.
The title does not come from the Hebraic tradition, nor from Jesus teachings, not from saint Peter or the Apostles.
It's a Roman religious title hold by the Roman high priest : Keeper of the sacred gate (Pontus in Latin), build by Emperor Adrian (now Sant'Angelo bridge) in Rome.
After the fall of the Republic, the Roman Emperors claimed the title for themselves and created a cult of the Emperor. Early Christians rejected the imperial cult and were persecuted like saint Mauricius was.
So how comes there is a Roman Pontiff on top of the Catholic Church?
It all started in 1050, when the imperial carolingian dynasty went extinct. Pope Leo IX born count Bruno von Egisheim-Dagsburg, was a descendant of Charlemagne and he claimed the imperial throne for the papacy. He constituted a Pontifical State, meaning the Roman Church is now the resurgence of the Roman Empire. He wore the imperial scarlet himself and gave the senatorial purple to an assembly of Cardinals.
He also designed a Chancellor : Humbert of Moyenmoutier, the same guy who went to Constantinople and provoked the Schism with the Orthodox Church.
The set of rules defining "Traditional Catholicism" was published in 1075 in the encyclical Dictatus Papae :
I That the Roman church is founded by the Lord alone. (despite the historical fact that saint Peter founded the Church in Antioch, saint James in Jerusalem and saint Mark in Alexandria.)
II That the Roman pontiff alone is called universal by right. (So the universality of Rome is due to the imperial title of the Roman Emperors Pontifex Maximus)
VIII That he alone can use the imperial insignia. (The Roman Pontiff is the new Cesar)
IX That all princes are to kiss the feet of the pope alone. (Rather that washing the feet like Christ did)
XI That this is the only name in the world. (Contradicting the Apostles "There is no salvation in anyone else (but Jesus), nor is there any other name under heaven given to men by which we can be saved.” Acts 4:12)
XIX That he himself must be judged by no one. (Even when he contradicts Jesus and the Apostles...)
XXVI That one is not to be held to be catholic, who does not concord with the Roman church. (It does not matter if you fallow the orthodox faith as long as you don't submit to the new Cesar)
Of course all those dispositions have been contradicted many times mainly since Vatican II but nevertheless they are part of the Catholic doctrine still today. The imperial crown has been deposed ( no more tiara). No one kisses the Pontiff's feet. The Orthodox Church is called "the second lung of the Church" despite not being subject to Rome etc.
Now I invite you to read st Lue 22:24 where Jesus gives precise instruction to how the head of the Church must or must not behave and compare with all that Pontifex Maximus stuff.
Lord have mercy
Kyrie eleison
IC XC
NI KA
Those who claim Pope Francis teaches heresy and error, are themselves ignorant of Catholic teaching and Canon Law and Holy Scripture! As lies were told of Jesus Christ at His trial, so too even now of Pope Francis by modern day elders! Obedience to Peter, is Obedience to Jesus Christ! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
Theologians and canonists have accused Francis of heresy.
@littlerock5256 And so many Scribes and Pharisees, accuse Jesus Christ of heresy! Again, those who claim Pope Francis teaches heresy and error, are themselves ignorant of Catholic teaching and Canon Law and Holy Scripture! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink
@@matthewbroderick6287 This is simply not true. Aidan Nichols, the most prominent theologian in the English speaking world, is among them.
@littlerock5256 Again, Aidan is himself ignorant of Canon Law and Catholic teaching if he claims Pope Francis is a heretic, as Vatican 1 and Vatican 2, state a Pope can never be a heretic! Plus. Aidan has never provided any evidence of this alleged heresy that a Pope can never teach! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink