Some People are always quick to put down older technology,what i call "techno junkies" that always have to have the newest and baddest things out there but to me I'm always amazed at how the built things back then, as old as these Mustang computers are now they are Amazing in all the stuff they had in them ,stop certain thing from working for 2 nano seconds until this other relay input this info and this and that and this and that,crazy cool stuff. I actually read a really long article about the EEEC IV and its development back in the day and it was really cool, blew my mind really, a ton of work went into these things.
Thanks sticky! I was surprised myself when I started seeing some of his stuff a year or so ago. I never really even laid much attention to it until a local cobra owner asked me to tune his nearly stock cobra. Figured I’d start with the X3Z calibration and was immediately like... nope.
Comparing ignition tables between A9L and X3Z should not be done as they both use different cylinder heads and different CAM specs. The Cobra heads are more efficient and therefore need less timing to get to MBT. Good Video by the way
Definitely agree with you as they are not the same engines. But this topic seems to come up a lot on forums and it is very easy for people to assume the cobra ecu will be setup to make more power than a non-cobra. I think my intent on this was more to steer people away from that line of thinking and to also show the odd injector characterization that was implemented on the x3z.
Excellent video!!! What about the scenario with much larger injectors (47) with a calibrated MAF? I have this setup and getting weird spark knock and detonation with 7 lbs of boost. Is the cobra computer limiting me to 24 lbs?
Very helpful info, I always thought that X3Z was better than A9L Now I know why A9L's are very famous. What is the best setting for timing at high RPM above 4000, specially at high elevation cities because I know more elevation more timing is required, where I live elevation is over 7000 feet
I believe the computing power of the a9l runs into issues with higher rpms. I believe there's ways to change the clock speed of the computer but everything has to be scaled to that frequency. Keep in mind too with timing you are mechanically limited to a timing range with DIS vs EDIS
Many reasons. Some people are on a tighter budget. Amount of parameters available to dial in drivability is ridiculous. Stock computer can support upwards of 750-850 horsepower with a competent tuner behind it. I do the Holley efi stuff too. But Holley has a strong lack of manufacturer support, what appears to be a reasonably poor quality control, lots of o2 sensor failures (I strongly suspect due to their sensor heating logic), harnesses mis-pinned or poorly assembled out of the box, etc. And let’s be honest, when you’re doing like a heads cam intake fox that’s just a street car, the Holley just doesn’t offer much in the way of features that actually matter... All that said, I am a huge fan of the Holley software’s ease of use and simple install. I have a Holley system sitting right next to me ready to put in my coupe when I get some spare time. My personal car has outgrown the capabilities of the stock computer. But it took me all the way to 600 horsepower on mine with no problems. But it’s getting turned up for next season and I need to log things like oil pressure, fuel pressure, and shock travel. I made the decision last year to go full race car with it. So I’m starting from scratch.
Well the question could be asked as the opposite as well. Why spend thousands on a stand alone and tune when the dinosaur will work just fine with a few hundred dollar tune? Like Matthew said they have their limits of course but the dinosaur will handle the masses of foxbody set ups. Like me for example I'm switching over a 351 to efi. I have all of the fox stuff laying around so it is a no brainer. $75 dollar chip and I'm in tuning the ECM for whatever my heart desires. I will have less in my whole set up(intake, TB, injectors, distributor, MAF, fuel pump, harness, ECM,etc) than just the standalone only.
Excellent video which confirms what my best friend and I used to tell people 15 - 20 years ago, the X3Z sucks! I tried a borrowed matched set of ‘93 Cobra computer, injectors and MAF that Ford Motorsport used to sell as a kit in my 1988 LX with a typical HCI combo as an experiment and the garbage performance was immediately noticeable. We also knew a guy that had a ‘93 Cobra and we convinced him to install an A9L with a ProM 77mm MAF system. It was like a whole different car and the owner was super happy. The one thing I was hoping this video would address is the ability to “no lift shift” with an X3Z. For those couple of days I ran it every time I tried to the car would fall on its face between gears, like it the engine shut off for a second then turned back on. Do you see anything in the programming that would prohibit no lift shifts? If I remember correct the ‘93 standard 5.0’s had a unique crappy computer and the 94/95 cars were that way, too?
In CBAZA strategy, "decel fuel shutoff min rpm" actually refers to rpm above idle rather than engine rpm. Is GUFB different? Sidenote: The bookmark in your video is called "Decent fuel shutoff", I assume by accident.
Are you asking if the T4M0 will handle it with or without a custom tune on it? What cam shaft is it? And will you be changing injectors, fuel pressure, or maf also?
If you don’t change the injectors or maf, you might get that to work ok without a custom tune. If it’s a stick shift car, though, you may experience some erratic idle and stalling that will be difficult to correct. But investing in a quarterhorse and wideband doesn’t really make sense if you are ultimately going to the Holley setup in the near future.
What similarities are there between the c3w1 , a9l and a9p? Ive been running an a9p in my car with a manual trans conversion and there doesnt seem to be much info out there on the c3w1. Just finding its an updated version of the early a9l/a9p and that it interchanges with either.
The c3w is the equivalent of the A9P, which is very different than the A9L. C3W and A9P are likely to have drivability issues if used in a manual transmission application without a custom tune. The idle air logic is vastly different. Since an auto always has the transmission to help maintain rpms and deceleration while in gear, it isn’t necessary to respond as quickly to dips in rpms. When you have a manual trans and hit the clutch, the efi system has to do something with spark and air to keep the car running or it will die.
@@LeechMotorsports ok so it is pretty well the same as what im using already, yep you're right its quite the pain to drive and doesnt like to come down to an idle easily, usually a quick tap of the throttle as I roll to a stop saves it from the stall out, I watched your other video on the differences between a9p and a9l was great to see the differences in them, and every forum ive looked through still claims the a9p to be a great option to keep in after doing a t5 conversion lol. Also with this car running the a9p have you come across any odd running conditions after someone has completed the t5 swap? Backfiring unsure if its a lean conditions or timing but after running for afew minutes it resolves itself and drives fine. Im wondering if its not seeing actual load as im driving right away, only happens after start up, about 40 seconds after its first started it acts up for a minute or so then is perfectly fine, does it ever time its started any temperature. Thanks for the information and doing these videos greatly appreciated!
Hard to say for sure what is the cause. Is the overall combo pretty close to stock or pretty far from it? What mass air meter, injectors, and cubic inches?
@@LeechMotorsports stock bottom 302, ported gt40 heads, b303 cam, 1.7 rockers, gt40 intake,70mm throttlebody 70mm mass air meter with the 19lb ford sensor and 19lb stock injectors, my confusion is coming from it was fine until the t5 swap then started doing this. I know with the little bit that is done a tune would likely net me abit more then what it is giving me but im just finding it really weird how its changed. Ive talked with someone else that had a similar car and when they did the swap the same scenario occurred. As its doing this while your driving you have to keep the rpms fairly high (3-3500 rpm as any tip into throttle makes it stumble and backfire as long as you dont push it or lug it down within a minute you can feel the power difference and it smooths out, thats the other thing it probably looses half of its power as its doing it, its about the oddest thing ive come across usually something like that continues on and can be diagnosed but i cant resolve it. Even pulling codes while its running has shown nothing.
Something jumps out at me here. You said 19lb ford sensor in a 70mm housing. If you change the location, or more importantly, the diameter of the mass air housing from stock, the flow numbers going to the computer will be incorrect. Essentially, if you put a stock meter in a bigger tube, the computer will think you are getting less air than you actually are. As a result, it will run lean. When you first start the car, the oxygen sensors are cold. So the car can’t adjust to rich/lean conditions. How long isn’t set in stone. Depending on ambient air temp, engine temp, bla bla bla it could kick into closed loop within a minute or it might take 2-3 minutes. Then it should drive “better” almost instantly, but still won’t be ideal. If you have a factory meter housing, I would switch back to that, pull your negative battery cable for a few minutes to reset the computer, and try it again.
What part number fuel injectors and MAF are specific to the X3Z? I have an X3Z and wonder if the MAF and injectors are correct or if they came from another car? My car will not idle with a TFS1 cam.
@@LeechMotorsports My f1te-d5a injectors & F1SF-12B579-AA (AFH70-02) MAF were acquired a different times, but I believe they are correct Cobra parts. I was concerned with your comments that they need to match the X3Z.
Some People are always quick to put down older technology,what i call "techno junkies" that always have to have the newest and baddest things out there but to me I'm always amazed at how the built things back then, as old as these Mustang computers are now they are Amazing in all the stuff they had in them ,stop certain thing from working for 2 nano seconds until this other relay input this info and this and that and this and that,crazy cool stuff.
I actually read a really long article about the EEEC IV and its development back in the day and it was really cool, blew my mind really, a ton of work went into these things.
Taking all the misinformation and dropping some truth bombs. I love this.
That is the goal. Trying to bring some of this old foxbody stuff into CZcams for a younger generation.
Pro m makes a maf for the x3z
Calibrated for 24lb injectors is the key there
Wow that was unexpected that the cobra x3z is tuned that way 👍great video
Thanks sticky! I was surprised myself when I started seeing some of his stuff a year or so ago. I never really even laid much attention to it until a local cobra owner asked me to tune his nearly stock cobra. Figured I’d start with the X3Z calibration and was immediately like... nope.
Comparing ignition tables between A9L and X3Z should not be done as they both use different cylinder heads and different CAM specs. The Cobra heads are more efficient and therefore need less timing to get to MBT. Good Video by the way
Definitely agree with you as they are not the same engines. But this topic seems to come up a lot on forums and it is very easy for people to assume the cobra ecu will be setup to make more power than a non-cobra. I think my intent on this was more to steer people away from that line of thinking and to also show the odd injector characterization that was implemented on the x3z.
Excellent video!!! What about the scenario with much larger injectors (47) with a calibrated MAF? I have this setup and getting weird spark knock and detonation with 7 lbs of boost. Is the cobra computer limiting me to 24 lbs?
Wow just a good tune on a cobra would pick up a lot of power!
The X3Z must be easily available and cheaper than the A9, right ?
No they have a Rev limiter In them
Very helpful info, I always thought that X3Z was better than A9L
Now I know why A9L's are very famous.
What is the best setting for timing at high RPM above 4000, specially at high elevation cities because I know more elevation more timing is required, where I live elevation is over 7000 feet
I believe the computing power of the a9l runs into issues with higher rpms. I believe there's ways to change the clock speed of the computer but everything has to be scaled to that frequency. Keep in mind too with timing you are mechanically limited to a timing range with DIS vs EDIS
Do you have any information about x0x
Why deal with either ECU? They’re both dinosaurs to a modern stand alone like a Holley EFI.
Many reasons. Some people are on a tighter budget. Amount of parameters available to dial in drivability is ridiculous. Stock computer can support upwards of 750-850 horsepower with a competent tuner behind it. I do the Holley efi stuff too. But Holley has a strong lack of manufacturer support, what appears to be a reasonably poor quality control, lots of o2 sensor failures (I strongly suspect due to their sensor heating logic), harnesses mis-pinned or poorly assembled out of the box, etc. And let’s be honest, when you’re doing like a heads cam intake fox that’s just a street car, the Holley just doesn’t offer much in the way of features that actually matter... All that said, I am a huge fan of the Holley software’s ease of use and simple install. I have a Holley system sitting right next to me ready to put in my coupe when I get some spare time. My personal car has outgrown the capabilities of the stock computer. But it took me all the way to 600 horsepower on mine with no problems. But it’s getting turned up for next season and I need to log things like oil pressure, fuel pressure, and shock travel. I made the decision last year to go full race car with it. So I’m starting from scratch.
Well the question could be asked as the opposite as well. Why spend thousands on a stand alone and tune when the dinosaur will work just fine with a few hundred dollar tune? Like Matthew said they have their limits of course but the dinosaur will handle the masses of foxbody set ups.
Like me for example I'm switching over a 351 to efi. I have all of the fox stuff laying around so it is a no brainer. $75 dollar chip and I'm in tuning the ECM for whatever my heart desires. I will have less in my whole set up(intake, TB, injectors, distributor, MAF, fuel pump, harness, ECM,etc) than just the standalone only.
Excellent video which confirms what my best friend and I used to tell people 15 - 20 years ago, the X3Z sucks! I tried a borrowed matched set of ‘93 Cobra computer, injectors and MAF that Ford Motorsport used to sell as a kit in my 1988 LX with a typical HCI combo as an experiment and the garbage performance was immediately noticeable. We also knew a guy that had a ‘93 Cobra and we convinced him to install an A9L with a ProM 77mm MAF system. It was like a whole different car and the owner was super happy. The one thing I was hoping this video would address is the ability to “no lift shift” with an X3Z. For those couple of days I ran it every time I tried to the car would fall on its face between gears, like it the engine shut off for a second then turned back on. Do you see anything in the programming that would prohibit no lift shifts? If I remember correct the ‘93 standard 5.0’s had a unique crappy computer and the 94/95 cars were that way, too?
In CBAZA strategy, "decel fuel shutoff min rpm" actually refers to rpm above idle rather than engine rpm. Is GUFB different?
Sidenote: The bookmark in your video is called "Decent fuel shutoff", I assume by accident.
So I’m doing a gt40p head and a cam upgrade on my 94 mustang gt will my T4MO ecu handle this upgrade
Are you asking if the T4M0 will handle it with or without a custom tune on it? What cam shaft is it? And will you be changing injectors, fuel pressure, or maf also?
That’s the thing my plans are to do this in stages gt40 p heads and comp cams 264 now and then install the terminator x with big injectors
If you don’t change the injectors or maf, you might get that to work ok without a custom tune. If it’s a stick shift car, though, you may experience some erratic idle and stalling that will be difficult to correct. But investing in a quarterhorse and wideband doesn’t really make sense if you are ultimately going to the Holley setup in the near future.
What similarities are there between the c3w1 , a9l and a9p? Ive been running an a9p in my car with a manual trans conversion and there doesnt seem to be much info out there on the c3w1. Just finding its an updated version of the early a9l/a9p and that it interchanges with either.
The c3w is the equivalent of the A9P, which is very different than the A9L. C3W and A9P are likely to have drivability issues if used in a manual transmission application without a custom tune. The idle air logic is vastly different. Since an auto always has the transmission to help maintain rpms and deceleration while in gear, it isn’t necessary to respond as quickly to dips in rpms. When you have a manual trans and hit the clutch, the efi system has to do something with spark and air to keep the car running or it will die.
@@LeechMotorsports ok so it is pretty well the same as what im using already, yep you're right its quite the pain to drive and doesnt like to come down to an idle easily, usually a quick tap of the throttle as I roll to a stop saves it from the stall out, I watched your other video on the differences between a9p and a9l was great to see the differences in them, and every forum ive looked through still claims the a9p to be a great option to keep in after doing a t5 conversion lol. Also with this car running the a9p have you come across any odd running conditions after someone has completed the t5 swap? Backfiring unsure if its a lean conditions or timing but after running for afew minutes it resolves itself and drives fine. Im wondering if its not seeing actual load as im driving right away, only happens after start up, about 40 seconds after its first started it acts up for a minute or so then is perfectly fine, does it ever time its started any temperature. Thanks for the information and doing these videos greatly appreciated!
Hard to say for sure what is the cause. Is the overall combo pretty close to stock or pretty far from it? What mass air meter, injectors, and cubic inches?
@@LeechMotorsports stock bottom 302, ported gt40 heads, b303 cam, 1.7 rockers, gt40 intake,70mm throttlebody 70mm mass air meter with the 19lb ford sensor and 19lb stock injectors, my confusion is coming from it was fine until the t5 swap then started doing this. I know with the little bit that is done a tune would likely net me abit more then what it is giving me but im just finding it really weird how its changed. Ive talked with someone else that had a similar car and when they did the swap the same scenario occurred. As its doing this while your driving you have to keep the rpms fairly high (3-3500 rpm as any tip into throttle makes it stumble and backfire as long as you dont push it or lug it down within a minute you can feel the power difference and it smooths out, thats the other thing it probably looses half of its power as its doing it, its about the oddest thing ive come across usually something like that continues on and can be diagnosed but i cant resolve it. Even pulling codes while its running has shown nothing.
Something jumps out at me here. You said 19lb ford sensor in a 70mm housing. If you change the location, or more importantly, the diameter of the mass air housing from stock, the flow numbers going to the computer will be incorrect. Essentially, if you put a stock meter in a bigger tube, the computer will think you are getting less air than you actually are. As a result, it will run lean. When you first start the car, the oxygen sensors are cold. So the car can’t adjust to rich/lean conditions. How long isn’t set in stone. Depending on ambient air temp, engine temp, bla bla bla it could kick into closed loop within a minute or it might take 2-3 minutes. Then it should drive “better” almost instantly, but still won’t be ideal. If you have a factory meter housing, I would switch back to that, pull your negative battery cable for a few minutes to reset the computer, and try it again.
What part number fuel injectors and MAF are specific to the X3Z?
I have an X3Z and wonder if the MAF and injectors are correct or if they came from another car? My car will not idle with a TFS1 cam.
You will have to have the Ford ev1 fat body blue top injectors. I believe the mass air meter starts with a F1 part number.
@@LeechMotorsports My f1te-d5a injectors & F1SF-12B579-AA (AFH70-02) MAF were acquired a different times, but I believe they are correct Cobra parts. I was concerned with your comments that they need to match the X3Z.
Best guess. There are three reason ford “detuned” the cobra. Warranty, warranty, warranty.