Secrets, Lies, and If There Be Thorns

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
  • Cathy “Catch These Hands” Sheffield
    Background photo by me.
    Script Supervisor: Karl the Cat
    Icon made with:
    picrew.me/en/i...
    Helpful Links:
    Library Stuff:
    Find libraries and archives | USAGov
    Libraries with Non-resident Borrowing Privileges!
    Resources:
    Check Voter Registration Deadlines and Laws in Your State | Vote.gov
    Operation Olive Branch | Instagram, TikTok | Linktree
    LGBTQ Resource List | GLAAD
    You searched for - Center for Reproductive Rights
    Find Resources to Improve Your Living Conditions | Benefits.gov
    Homelessness Programs and Resources | SAMHSA
    Mental Health Resources - Mental Health First Aid
    www.thehotline...
    UN Crisis Relief
    foundation.cho...
    www.gsa.gov/re...

Komentáře • 282

  • @KorribanAlumniBooks
    @KorribanAlumniBooks  Před měsícem +70

    Skip to 37:06 to avoid discussions of animal death

    • @harmonierainbow7559
      @harmonierainbow7559 Před měsícem +4

      I forgot about that. 😭

    • @duchess5847
      @duchess5847 Před měsícem +9

      thank you so much for adding the skip for animal abuse, it can be such a trauma for many of us and rarely anyone ever thinks about it

    • @lisa-lisa-lisa
      @lisa-lisa-lisa Před měsícem +5

      thank you so much for this!

    • @Authorrlee
      @Authorrlee Před 22 dny +1

      THANK YOU FOR THIS!
      I wouldn’t have been able to handle any animal abuse or death

    • @yfrreetyyyyytuttI
      @yfrreetyyyyytuttI Před 10 dny

      Where is seeds of yesterday. I lo e your take

  • @kathleenjoseph4316
    @kathleenjoseph4316 Před měsícem +421

    Let the record show that I have purchased a full box of pins, just for this series! Ready to put a pin in EVERYTHING!!!

    • @fafnyrslair
      @fafnyrslair Před měsícem +16

      😂 you're going to need them all

  • @Subconscious.Sarah.
    @Subconscious.Sarah. Před měsícem +294

    “Cathy’s hands are rated E for everyone”
    “If there’s one thing I’m going to do it’s hold a grudge. I’ll heal in hell”
    Words cannot express how much I love your analysis and perspective.

  • @LeoGirl80
    @LeoGirl80 Před měsícem +191

    I DONT THINK CORRINE DESERVED FORGIVENESS EITHER. Like, she wasn’t even sorry for real. Every chance she got, she blamed it on someone else or started crying to deflect and manipulate.

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +20

      Oh she was sorry alright. A sorry excuse for a human being.

    • @JinaChantil
      @JinaChantil Před měsícem +8

      Omg, Toni!!! Hey girl! Can’t believe I found you here! 🙉
      Totally agree with you! I loved this series of books! I don’t think Corrine ever deserved forgiveness! She murdered her freakin children! She deserved a lifetime of hell! Glad to know you are a bookworm too! 🫶🏽

    • @LeoGirl80
      @LeoGirl80 Před měsícem +2

      @@JinaChantil Omg hey girl heyyyyyy!!!!!! Glad you’re also a bookworm too 🥰🥰

    • @LeoGirl80
      @LeoGirl80 Před měsícem +1

      @@stevenandcarminabeedle9089 EXACTLY!!!!!!

    • @kiracarver988
      @kiracarver988 Před měsícem +6

      ​@@LeoGirl80well now I need to know how y'all know each other, give us the lore
      This has only ever happened to me once and it was a trip! My old friend from elementary it was so cool.

  • @originalnameyeahrigh
    @originalnameyeahrigh Před měsícem +179

    Cathy throwing hands cleared my skin and watered my crops

  • @LeoGirl80
    @LeoGirl80 Před měsícem +152

    Every time I read the scene where Cathy kicks Corrine’s ass, I legit stand up and cheer “I KNOW THATS RIGHT CATHY!!!!!” 😂😂

  • @JinaChantil
    @JinaChantil Před měsícem +197

    “She has enough sense not to approach Cathy as she knows Cathy will beat the brakes off her!” Yo! I’m screaming! 🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭

  • @marmartin9822
    @marmartin9822 Před měsícem +92

    If this were set in the present day Bart would have 100% been on 4chan all day every day

    • @KariIzumi1
      @KariIzumi1 Před měsícem +5

      I hate that you’re right

    • @Lady.Luthien
      @Lady.Luthien Před 29 dny +2

      Oh yeah, Bart is definitely an !ncel in the making.

  • @moonlighthowling666
    @moonlighthowling666 Před měsícem +184

    Its so silly but I can never read If There Be Thorns without doing a pirate voice in my head "If THAARRR Be THAARRRNS"

  • @houdakasbadji504
    @houdakasbadji504 Před měsícem +83

    I have been re reading the whole series and I think the reason Corrine was so obsessed with bart is because she sees him as the son she never had with bart senior

    • @reneeschnarr6260
      @reneeschnarr6260 Před měsícem +42

      Also it shows her extreme narcissism and selfishness. She almost killed all of her children then moved next door and assumes she’ll be welcome and have any rights to her children or grandchildren. Also I always thought Bart was a very disturbed child from the gate but Corrine and her “butler” made him so much worse.

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +24

      Naturally. Because she “couldn’t”. That’s also why Cathy deliberately tried to make sure she got pregnant. The ultimate revenge. It’s pretty sweet but also that she literally had a baby to get back at her mom is hellacious. But at least she loved him unconditionally and treated him well. As well as she could.

  • @wellergurl
    @wellergurl Před měsícem +72

    😂😂😂😂 "Cathy's hands are rated E for EVERYONE !!!!!!!" "Beating the brakes" off of Corrine. 🤣🤣❤️👍

  • @LeoGirl80
    @LeoGirl80 Před měsícem +66

    I’ve got a Sam’s Club sized container of pins today. Let’s goooooooo!!!!!

  • @klane2004
    @klane2004 Před měsícem +82

    This is weirdly my new favorite book breakdown series. It just popped up in my suggested and I remembered the first book vaguely from highschool but I did NOT remember how bonkers these books are lol. Love it.

    • @zphidivah
      @zphidivah Před měsícem

      Same!

    • @sukriti7213
      @sukriti7213 Před měsícem +3

      Same. I've literally never read any of these even though I've heard about them, but I look forward to each new part being uploaded.

  • @katienichole6905
    @katienichole6905 Před měsícem +189

    "Locks him in the attic." THERE IT IS. The poison drips through.

    • @katienichole6905
      @katienichole6905 Před měsícem +29

      Just realized another element to why baby Cindy is likely such a trigger, even if bart doesn't clock it.
      Cindy fits the dollenganger naming theme of C's. Neither he nor jory do.

  • @kahnabull1694
    @kahnabull1694 Před měsícem +47

    That ending was absolutely horrifying. Bart began to WALK like a great grandfather he never met.. based on reading his journal.. and then that?…
    Also Tucker Carlson villain origins. My Boho mommy left me so all women are evil. 🥺😡

  • @Colidape
    @Colidape Před měsícem +30

    Just for the record you're not a bad person. I remember reading this and literally counting down the chapters when Kathy would discover Corinne and give her a one-way ticket to ass beat City.

  • @meltdownremix1996
    @meltdownremix1996 Před měsícem +52

    The amount of times I said "Oh no" out loud while listening to this....

  • @LiirThropp2687
    @LiirThropp2687 Před měsícem +63

    I been waiting for this one! Love hearing you discuss this insane series lol This one took me off guard in that I actually cried at the end during Corrine's funeral. When Cathy starts screaming "Momma, Momma I forgive you! I still love you!" That absolutely DESTROYED me when I first read it. As horrendous as Corrine was, and the damage she caused her poor kids, deep down Cathy still loved her Momma. 🥺💔 I also loved that Corrine died saving Cathy. The only good thing she did in the whole series. I took that as maybe she was truly sorry. Not that what she did could ever be taken back, it was just something I thought about.

    • @TheEverGrowingRosey-333
      @TheEverGrowingRosey-333 Před měsícem +15

      Cathy wouldn’t have remained resentful if she didn’t still love her. The opposite of love is apathy not hate.

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +4

      Same. She loves the Momma she was before the attic. Even if it wasn’t 100% genuine on Corríne’s part. She loved her as best she knew how I guess. I forgot all about that scene! It reminds me of Imitation of Life. An old movie, no incest lol And the daughter is the one who betrays her mother and throws herself onto the hearse when her mom dies. 😢

    • @LiirThropp2687
      @LiirThropp2687 Před měsícem +5

      ​@@TheEverGrowingRosey-333 Yep. Cathy even admits in Petals on the Wind that even though she does hate Corrine that a little bit of love for her still lives and it hurt to make her mom cry during the big confrontation at the end. It's such a heartbreaking story and I felt so bad for Cathy.

    • @LiirThropp2687
      @LiirThropp2687 Před měsícem +3

      ​@@stevenandcarminabeedle9089 I was expecting the end of If There Be Thorns to hit me as hard as it did. Even after everything Corrine did, for Cathy to break down and start begging God to let Corrine know she still loved her....Whew! That got me. 💔

  • @MikaelaCher
    @MikaelaCher Před měsícem +61

    Trying to imagine this entire drama and trauma novel but with all the characters in 80s clothes is much, much harder than it should be

    • @5th_cellar
      @5th_cellar Před měsícem +7

      I was in middle school when I read these, seventh grade, I think, so 96-97...but the absolute brake screech in my head when she started talking about the attic situation being in the 60s with Chris and Cathy born in the 40s...

    • @BooLadybeautycare
      @BooLadybeautycare Před 28 dny

      I was doing the same lol 😂 😊

  • @unsophisticatedlywellread
    @unsophisticatedlywellread Před měsícem +34

    Thank god I’m a seamstress and have pins! I love this quirk of yours! It’s so endearing 🥰
    Also thank you for covering this series.

  • @kirstenkendall6479
    @kirstenkendall6479 Před 9 dny +3

    I am so ready for seed of yesterday and garden of shadows.. I binged all 3 videos yesterday. I havent read these in 20 years, and it was so fun getting the recap with commentary. Great job!

  • @LostGirl04
    @LostGirl04 Před měsícem +48

    I've been following your breakdowns of these books. I never knew the whole story before, it's genuinely so morbidly fascinating! I don't have the resources to buy these books, so these reviews are really great for me. Thank you so much!

    • @katdeasyy
      @katdeasyy Před měsícem +7

      zlibrary is your friend

    • @alvafairchild13
      @alvafairchild13 Před měsícem +3

      Library's are your friends also most offer online services if you have mobility issues

    • @LostGirl04
      @LostGirl04 Před měsícem

      @@katdeasyy
      I don't like the idea of pirating works, especially if I can't/don't have plans to buy them. Would this be anything similar to piracy, or is it a digital library service?

    • @LostGirl04
      @LostGirl04 Před měsícem

      @@alvafairchild13
      I don't have time to go to the library, despite living maybe a 5-10 minute walk from one… Sad days.

    • @jaimelynn1609
      @jaimelynn1609 Před 26 dny

      ​@@LostGirl04not about zlibrary but the Libby app is connected to actual libraries

  • @prospitdreamer
    @prospitdreamer Před měsícem +27

    This is my favorite book in the series and I was waiting for you to do a video on it.
    I always say that the best (as in, best written and most tragic) corruption arc I've ever seen in media was the one of Bart in If There Be Thorns. I haven't read anything more horrifying, sad, and tragic as what Bart goes through and John Amos' manipulation that makes him spiral into becoming worse and worse and embodying the identity of a dead man. It's chilling, and I highly recommend reading this book if anything for the quality of the narrative writing and character arcs present in the story.
    Also my favorite character is Jory, the most well adjusted in the family 😭 (though he goes through some serious shit in the next book but he gets a happy ending of sorts and idk, I'm just glad that he's happy and okay).

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +3

      This was my fav too! It was the first book I read by V.C. Andrew’s and at first I figured the context was enough for the first two book. Boy was I wrong lol this one is my favorite series out of all the ones I read. I think Heaven is my second favorite.

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +2

      Oh yeah and I LOVE Jory (who doesn’t lol) HATE Melody 😡

    • @jaimelynn1609
      @jaimelynn1609 Před 26 dny

      ​@@stevenandcarminabeedle9089 my faves are opposite. I think because Heaven was the first series I read. I forget when I finally read the Flowers in the Attic series, I think it took me longer to read, because I had seen the movie, original, so many times

  • @Angi_Mathochist
    @Angi_Mathochist Před měsícem +47

    Glitch: Cathy threatens to spank Bart. Doesn't Bart have CIP? What would spanking him do?

  • @savannahhenley2116
    @savannahhenley2116 Před měsícem +24

    I don't think I've even been so early - Video posted 14 Minutes ago. Also "I'll heal in Hell" is so relatable. I can not wait for you to cover the rest of the books!

  • @erinreese1007
    @erinreese1007 Před měsícem +28

    “I will in fact heal in hell” ok queen adding it to the list ❤😂

  • @sihaya95
    @sihaya95 Před měsícem +27

    Wild I read these as a kid hearing that list of warnings

    • @stevenandcarminabeedle9089
      @stevenandcarminabeedle9089 Před měsícem +4

      I think most of Gen X did lol

    • @widowrumstrypze9705
      @widowrumstrypze9705 Před měsícem +2

      We Latchkey Survivors got to do pretty much whatever we liked, as long as our overworked parents didn't have to hear about it, lol!

  • @cheapmirage3579
    @cheapmirage3579 Před měsícem +17

    I’m just starting the video now but I want to say I really enjoy the way you discuss books compared to other “book tubers” I’ve seen. Whereas a lot of them nitpick and go off a list of annotations or just briefly summarize the book you really take the time to develop your feelings/stance about a book

  • @Simfyre
    @Simfyre Před měsícem +17

    "These hands are rated E for everyone." Omg ... I'm dying laughing. That was great.

  • @reganlandau
    @reganlandau Před měsícem +10

    These recaps have been great. Because I totally didn't want to read them again, but I did like hearing the story again

  • @Forwantofaname
    @Forwantofaname Před měsícem +11

    I just finished watching your other two videos, and wow, Cathy's pain train really never ends. She managed to survive to the end of this book, but with her career destroyed and her one child changed in a truly horrible way. I know this book followed the boys, but it with always be Cathy's story and perspective that I follow most, and goodness do I feel awful for her.

  • @colettemallory3813
    @colettemallory3813 Před měsícem +13

    Hurray!!! Another installment!!! I love this series!!!

  • @ExaggeratedRebellion
    @ExaggeratedRebellion Před měsícem +2

    These videos have been absolutely delightful (despite the subject matter). I’m glad CZcams recommended your channel to me out of nowhere!

  • @christineexe
    @christineexe Před měsícem +9

    the way i fist pumped so hard when i saw this was up! thank you for doing a deep dive into this series.

  • @QuintetMagician
    @QuintetMagician Před měsícem +11

    YESSSSSS IM SO HYPED. I just finished the original book this morning and loved it!!! Can’t wait to listen to this later!

  • @clo6178
    @clo6178 Před měsícem +10

    Every time she said john amos my brain replaced it was "john stamos"

    • @plinko84
      @plinko84 Před 26 dny

      You're not the only one. 😆

  • @TheFlamingPotato
    @TheFlamingPotato Před měsícem +2

    I am on the edge of my seat for part 4!

  • @angelinaabogado826
    @angelinaabogado826 Před měsícem +7

    My best friend was obsessed with these books in middle school and I never knew what they were about … I’m shocked lmao. Great job covering this series so far !!!

  • @jasmineraditz
    @jasmineraditz Před 7 dny +1

    Just binged all 3 videos. I will now not eat or sleep until you post seeds of yesterday and garden of shadows lmao

  • @erinreese1007
    @erinreese1007 Před měsícem +9

    Also i think those last few lines if the book might be a way of showing how trauma can come up at anytime even without triggers or warnings. We can relive a bad memory as if it was now.

  • @K1tC4t_94
    @K1tC4t_94 Před měsícem +3

    I remember reading Flowers in the Attic at an age way too young to do so. It always stuck in the back of my mind, but I never read the rest of the series. Listening to your analysis is helping me complete a story that's been opened in my mind for way too long.

  • @paulatikitour979
    @paulatikitour979 Před 26 dny +1

    I’m really enjoying this series, I read the books in my preteens/early teens back in the 90’s and I unironically loved them, as did my friends. It was a whole VC Andrew’s young teen fan club, we read so many of the authors books. Your retelling has me itching to go back and read all but Flowers In The Attic (which I remember far too well) from an adult perspective.
    Thank you for doing this series.

  • @AB-ip2ct
    @AB-ip2ct Před 29 dny +2

    You’ve done such a great job with breaking down these books. I’ve never read them, because every time I’ve seen a video or review talk about the book, the focus has always been about the weird incest. You’ve told the story so beautifully & shifted the focus to what it really is i.e generational trauma & the cycle of abuse. I think people have sensationalised the incest aspect so much that they fail to look beyond that. Your storytelling & analysis have convinced me to give this book a shot & have a better perspective on the events that take place in the book. From what I’ve seen till now, the author seems to have a very good understanding of trauma & how deeply it affects people in every aspect of their lives & how that trauma carries over to the people they come across. If anything, this book is a very well written story of the inner workings of victims & how the victims eventually become perpetrators. Especially for the time when it was written. I applaud you for doing this series justice with your breakdown of it.

  • @tricorvus2673
    @tricorvus2673 Před měsícem +8

    I have long wondered what Malcolm’s father was like. Did he do something to drive off the original Corrine? Remember, the impressions of a little boy are not the most reliable nor are they the full story.

    • @AmyBennett-kd2nb
      @AmyBennett-kd2nb Před měsícem +4

      Have you read "Garden of Shadows"? I don't want to say much without spoilers.

  • @Andrea-sg7qp
    @Andrea-sg7qp Před měsícem +6

    I've been loving these! I read these books probably an unhealthy amount of times as a teenager but it's been so many years since I've even thought of them and this has been such a fun nostalgia trip.

  • @VeronicAM313
    @VeronicAM313 Před měsícem +10

    I hate you're going to have go through this but I'm also thankful as it feels like a fever dream.

  • @adam-l74
    @adam-l74 Před měsícem +1

    Wow thanks so much for this series, not only did I read these books way too young I know now as an adult why they had such an impact on me. ❤

  • @absinthealice
    @absinthealice Před měsícem +10

    I don't know what to do...
    I have no more pins!

  • @reneeschnarr6260
    @reneeschnarr6260 Před měsícem +22

    I think Bart was already a deeply disturbed child long before Corrine moved in next door and John Amos got his hooks into him. I think certain mental illnesses must have run rampant in their family and it shows: Malcom was a misogynist, narcissistic and abusive person. He considered his daughter a beautiful possession he wanted to keep to himself. His daughter in turn was spoiled and selfish and also a narcissist. She thought she had every right to her children and grandchildren even after everything she’d done. She knew John Amos was mentally ill but she moved in next door with him in tow. Cathy was also narcissistic in her own way by bringing Cindy into the family even while it was more and more obvious that Bart was seriously diving into mental illness. From this book you finally learn more about Malcom and what made him the way he was and you learn more about Corrine but more importantly you see a pattern emerging. Chris and Cathy were also the products of incest which means that some very undesirable genes would be magnified.

    • @Natalie_11188
      @Natalie_11188 Před měsícem +10

      I agree. Bart was deeply disturbed from the get go, Jory was raised in the exact same home and is such a sweet kind boy.
      I can understand why Chris and Cathy didn’t know what to do with Bart! His attempt to hurt Cindy was so shocking.

    • @JinaChantil
      @JinaChantil Před měsícem

      Yeah that whole family was mentally ill

    • @xSwordLilyx
      @xSwordLilyx Před měsícem +3

      To be fair CPTSD can mimic narcissism and Cathy is the poster child for CPTSD. Sometimes mental illness is born, and sometimes it is made. If it was made with Bart I think it was internalization of the bullying.
      For a long time I thought my abusive narcissistic ex had CPTSD, if he does he still is a narcissist, and had no interest in getting help despite the abuse his issues drove him to do, specifically against me but really any woman, and the elaborate facade he has, but she doesn't typically act in ways heedless to others. She genuinely loves people, she doesn't try to make a performance of it for gain or seek attention no matter the cost. She genuinely wanted to give a mother to a child who lost hers.

    • @reneeschnarr6260
      @reneeschnarr6260 Před měsícem +2

      People can have narcissistic traits without having the full blown personality disorder. And people who have certain disorders tend to be self centered to at least some degree probably because they’ve been through so much trauma their self preservation instincts become magnified.

  • @Veganfries
    @Veganfries Před měsícem +4

    I just discovered your channel today, watched BOTH of your flowers in the attic videos and subscribed, and then I check my subs and see this gift- your channel is fantastic!!

  • @helenam00n
    @helenam00n Před měsícem +1

    Obsessed. Between these videos and the new Biz video that came out a few days ago, I've thrown myself into this world and I couldnt be more grateful

  • @schleb5541
    @schleb5541 Před měsícem +6

    I've been waiting for this! My pins & I are ready! 📌📌📌

  • @liallialcroc
    @liallialcroc Před 27 dny +1

    im excitedly waiting for the next video, im so curious about the pre-quels as well, i love your analysis!!!!

  • @Danimonster101
    @Danimonster101 Před 23 dny +4

    Just here to say I check almost daily if you have posted a video on the next book. Regardless of if you had plans to or not. I love content on these books lmao

    • @Authorrlee
      @Authorrlee Před 22 dny +1

      You aren’t the only one 😆

  • @daughteroftime8047
    @daughteroftime8047 Před měsícem +9

    I love this series. You should do My sweet Audrina when you're done with these!

    • @JinaChantil
      @JinaChantil Před měsícem +2

      Omg! I hope she covers My Sweet Audrina! That was such a good book!

    • @daughteroftime8047
      @daughteroftime8047 Před měsícem +2

      @@JinaChantil it is definitely one that hits hard. Fingers crossed!

    • @johannawigg6921
      @johannawigg6921 Před měsícem

      Thank you, I had forgotten the title of the book !!

  • @drewteora8169
    @drewteora8169 Před měsícem +13

    YES I’M SO STOKED I LOVE THIS VIDEO SERIES!!! i literally watch these as soon as you put them out 💃

  • @Niccixp
    @Niccixp Před měsícem +9

    Been waiting for this would l9ve for you to do breakdowns of other v.c novels

  • @Hunter7338
    @Hunter7338 Před měsícem +1

    “If there’s one thing I’m going to do it’s hold a grudge. I’ll heal in hell” this was genius and I relate so bad.
    Excellent review/analysis. Can't wait for the other two books, especially Garden of Shadows, even more after watching the tv limited series.

  • @beingheardmedia6339
    @beingheardmedia6339 Před měsícem +13

    THANK YOU for doing this one!!! I LOVE your breakdowns (the summary of the timescale is especially welcome and helpful)
    I originally read this whole series up to this point as a kid. And even then, my sympathies switched from Cathy to Bart in this book. I was on Cathy's side in the first two novels. The 3rd novel exposes in a way the others fail to one of the persistent underlying problems with the characters.
    What I picked up from the beginning but only fully realized in this novel, is that the main characters - Cathy, Chris, Corinne, Chris Sr. - all exist in this delusional bubble created by the following beliefs:
    1) What is physically beautiful is ultimately good - even in the face of all evidence to the contrary
    2) Love justifies ANYTHING (and yes that includes incest) - and with the corollary that sex more or less equals love
    3) You will get a happy ending in life if you just hold onto those first 2 beliefs
    Of course all of that is garbage. Yet it fuels the dreams and dwindling hopes of Chris and Cathy while they're in the attic. It fuels the entire plot of Petals on the Wind. And it comes crashing down in If There Be Thorns. Because if they weren't operating on those delusions Cathy and Chris might actually get their heads out of their asses and actually SEE and relate to Bart and realize that BOTH children require - and are WORTHY of - their attention and emotional investment. But they don't do that. And the result, before anyone moves in next door, is the fracturing of Bart's personality.They then double down on this tinder box of a situation by DRAGGING ANOTHER CHILD INTO THIS MESS just because Cathy wants to.
    What broke my heart most of all about this novel in general is how many Dollanganger series fans absolutely CANNOT or REFUSE TO get this about Bart because they are so invested in the forbidden "love story" of Chris and Cathy. Even as a kid I knew what Chris and Cathy were doing was not only wrong but it was one of the main drivers of Bart losing his mind. I also got that their willful (both conscious and unconscious) refusal to see that and do the right thing was the REAL VILLAIN of this story.
    ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF CHRIS AND CATHY DIDN'T LIVE AS HUSBAND AND WIFE AND DIDN'T LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE.
    That would have been the definitive step to beginning to fix all of this and they refused to take it. I blame Chris more than Cathy because at least Cathy TRIED. Chris just lay like a snake in the grass waiting for his moment which he finally got. Can you imagine how different the story COULD have been if, when Bart found out about all of this, Cathy and Chris were NOT living together? SO much damage could have been avoided. And the fault lies squarely at Chris and Cathy's feet.
    And then they doubled down on this by forcing Bart to continue playing happy families with their incestuous union. Basically they forced Bart to live a lie and keep a secret that would have had serious legal repercussions if it had gotten out. And they low-key treated him as if he was defective because he never truly becomes comfortable or totally on board with this the way Jory does. You can't do that to a kid and call yourself a good parent. No matter how pretty you are. No wonder the events of Seeds of Yesteryear happened.
    THIS IS THE BOOK IN WHICH CHRIS AND CATHY TRULY BECOME EVIL.
    I said what I said.
    It's one thing when what you do only affects you and whatever adult freely consents to do it with you. It's another thing entirely to drag kids into it. This is the point where I turned against Cathy and especially Chris. You know why Bart especially hated Chris? Because it's CHRIS who's the driving force keeping him and Cathy together. They're both at fault. But Chris is a perfect example of looking like a good person and being rotten underneath. No he's not mean. No he's not ugly. No he's not rude or argumentative, etc. But he is ROTTEN. Because he KNOWS what he's doing is wrong. He DID pressure Cathy into being with him. (Remember HE'S the one who started their sexual relationship in the first place. The feelings were there; but he activated the problem by his own actions. He is just as sick as Corinne is. He just manages it better. Cathy is the raggedy one because she doesn't manage this sick situation as well as he does. But that makes her the healthier one.) And now, together, he and Cathy are throwing Bart under the bus to keep their "marriage" going.
    Chris deserved what he got in Seeds of Yesteryear and much, MUCH more. Cathy never found peace because she could never make herself stick to doing the right thing which was to get away from Chris. She's really not that much different than Corinne. And the end result is Bart. THAT'S why this series is so tragic to me. And If There Be thorns is the book in which Chris and Cathy had the opportunity to GENUINELY do better than their parents and they turned away from it and sacrificed Bart's sanity instead.
    You know why? Because just like their mother, they could not look at themselves and see themselves for what they truly were - as selfish and inappropriately sexual as their own parents AND Malcolm Foxworth were. Is it sad? Yes. But it doesn't lessen my anger at them and it doesn't urge me to give them any slack. The solution was very simple. Just separate. End the sexual relationship. They could still support and love each other platonically but their sexual inappropriateness kept them from seeing that. Alternatively, Chris could have gone halfway around the globe working for something like Doctors without borders in order to stay away from Cathy.
    But I've learned the hard way - both from my own failings and others' - that humanity will climb the highest mountain and forge the roughest seas to avoid doing the right thing. We just don't want to do it. And if anyone outside of ourselves calls us on it, we attack them, ostracize them and turn them into a scapegoat - just like they did with Bart. Taking him to therapy? Therapy was never going to work for him while the situation that made him nuts in the first place - Chris and Cathy effing around - stays in place. And the fact that Chris and Cathy told themselves that this was the route to take instead of separating sows that they are STILL LYING TO THEMSELVES and willing to throw anyone under the bus in order to do it. THAT'S why I couldn't fully hate Bart in Seeds of Yesteryear and that's why I stayed on Bart's side in this novel.
    CHRIS AND CATHY CREATED THIS SITUATION. Corinne and John Amos just capitalized on it. If Chris and Cathy hadn't been together when Corinne and John Amos came along, it would have been MUCH harder for anyone to get a foothold into Bart's psyche.
    I'm glad Cathy got some shots back at Corinne, I really am. But it doesn't excuse how she and Chris wrecked Bart.

    • @Saeiyu
      @Saeiyu Před měsícem +6

      That is so absolutely true. Even if Cathy and Chris had remained close, there is nothing wrong with siblings living close by and a sibling helping his widowed sister with support for her two kids. Chris didn't do it because he KNEW another man would come along and take Cathy from him and that is what he feared.

    • @Natalie_11188
      @Natalie_11188 Před měsícem

      @@SaeiyuI do think that Chris was the instigator of the relationship. I get living near Cathy would’ve been too hard, but he could’ve moved away and Cathy with Paul’s inheritance and her good looks would’ve found another man who would’ve loved her and helped her raise her sons (he may have already had children etc); but Chris had to have her.

    • @johannawigg6921
      @johannawigg6921 Před měsícem +4

      I don't think anyone can sit and judge after the trauma they went through, by the time Bart and Jory found out Cathy and Chris were in too deep and for too long. It wasn't just ine decision they made, it was a series of decisions that led them deeper and deeper in the cortex that they created for themselves and those around them. Why so much sympathy for Bart when what Chris and Cathy went through as children and young adults is so much worse?

    • @Natalie_11188
      @Natalie_11188 Před měsícem +5

      @@johannawigg6921 I agree with you. I think Bart would’ve been seriously disturbed regardless. If Cathy had been a single mom raising him he probably would’ve blamed her for working too much or not giving him a Dad. He still would’ve been insanely jealous of Jory. If he found out Bart Sr was his biological father he would’ve hated Cathy for the affair. BART is a tragic character because he’s a child and you want him to go down the right path but you have an eerie feeling he’s only going to get worse as he gets older.

  • @evaferreira8
    @evaferreira8 Před měsícem +3

    YESSS PERFEC TIMING! I just finished your last vid and was so hyped for this one!! I never got past the first book because I was 14 and like “wtf was that” but knowing the fates of the characters in the later books gives me some closure 🫶 love how thorough and nuanced you are :)

  • @MsBluheart
    @MsBluheart Před měsícem +2

    Love that you even take the time to do a timeline! I have bever heard anyone else bother to. I'm glad I found your channel again. I had listened to the original videos you did where we saw you on camera. I really enjoyed them. I was sad when I couldn't find them, so I was glad to finally find these new ones and subscribed.

  • @jacobneale5844
    @jacobneale5844 Před měsícem +1

    ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ It’s really interesting to watch these videos as somebody who’s never read the books, & only seen the movies & tv shows. It’s honestly made me want to go back to watch the tv shows tbh

  • @naochan133
    @naochan133 Před měsícem +1

    You have no idea how much I have been waiting for this, your videos are getting me incredibly nostalgic for the young me that looked for these books all over the place in old bookstores to finish the saga. Everyday I check my suscriptions hoping that there will be a new one. Thank you very much for making this.

  • @jodieg6318
    @jodieg6318 Před měsícem +4

    I don't know if it was intentional or not, but something I always took as a take away from the whole series was at some point you have to stop blaming your baggage and trauma for your bad decisions. Everyone in this story had so much trauma (even Corine) and in true traumatic response fashion it colors all their decisions and reactions but all their lives also start to go downhill when they decide to blame their it and other people for their mistakes.

  • @Chelseabee55
    @Chelseabee55 Před měsícem +3

    I really wish the original VC Andrews website was available. I remember being slightly obsessed with her life because FITA may have been loosely based off her life. I wish we had more information
    All I know: she might have been in love with her doctor (she was disabled and spent a lot of time in hospitals and away from other children) and the doctor, Chris, was locked inside with his siblings for many years.

  • @AmyBennett-kd2nb
    @AmyBennett-kd2nb Před dnem +2

    Stephanie, I have my pins ready! When is the video for "Seeds of Yesterday" coming out????

  • @lucadia7554
    @lucadia7554 Před měsícem +1

    ❤ Oh Thank you for your brilliant story telling once again. I"m excited for the next in the series,... I know how much work goes into this, so Thanks again. Can't wait 😅

  • @Simfyre
    @Simfyre Před měsícem +1

    I absolutely love your insightful in-depth commentary and speculation on this series. It has been many years since I have read this series, but you inspire me to want to delve back into this tragedy.

  • @JosieSchuller
    @JosieSchuller Před měsícem +1

    I’m so glad I found your channel because these videos about the “Flowers in the Attic” series are excellent! I’ve really enjoyed your recaps and your commentary as well. I read the series years ago and found them creepy and enthralling at the same time.

  • @urmama77
    @urmama77 Před měsícem +6

    YESSSS LISTENING TO THIS IN THE SHOWER

    • @GlitterAndGlitzz
      @GlitterAndGlitzz Před měsícem

      Same lol and while doing dishes and prepping dinner lmao

  • @Dawn_gurrrl
    @Dawn_gurrrl Před měsícem +5

    And in a shocking turn of events it somehow gets worse

  • @kybunnii
    @kybunnii Před měsícem +1

    Im so glad you're covering this series. Thank you again❤

  • @eriyal
    @eriyal Před měsícem +1

    omg i started this series yesterday and was ready to wait patiently, and u posted today! Yay, so ready to listen to this video. Enjoying it so far! I read this series in HS but i like the refreshment.

  • @blackhippie_x5750
    @blackhippie_x5750 Před měsícem +1

    This dropped at the perfect time - getting my nails done and I can listen along 😍👏🏾 Thankyou!

  • @L0.razepam
    @L0.razepam Před měsícem +1

    I recently discovered your channel and binged through all your videos!! Can’t wait to sit back and enjoy this one too.

  • @BooLadybeautycare
    @BooLadybeautycare Před 28 dny

    This series popped up n I was like I haven’t read these books n years
    Wow so much went over my head

  • @melissacallaway6148
    @melissacallaway6148 Před měsícem

    I've been waiting!!!! Can't wait for Olivia's POV prequel. I was obsessed with this series in middle school and this is such a fun revisit. Thank you!

  • @robynsibal440
    @robynsibal440 Před měsícem +1

    So happy I found these! I just finished the first two and saw you posted the next one! So lucky. This is the only book of the series I have such a hard time reading as it is not from Cathy's POV. Barts POV is especially tough!

  • @komikbookgeek
    @komikbookgeek Před měsícem +3

    "I will in fact heal in Hell" that is very much how i am tbh

  • @Authorrlee
    @Authorrlee Před měsícem

    Yessss!
    Even with the 🔔 notification set, I have still been coming back every few days to see if I accidentally missed THIS upload!
    TY kindly for putting these fantastic long form breakdowns together in rapid succession!

  • @samb3209
    @samb3209 Před měsícem +2

    I have never read any of these books so this has been a WILD ride. I literally never know what’s going to happen next 😂

  • @arthas3687
    @arthas3687 Před měsícem

    I'm obsessed with your recap of this series. More! Thank you ❤

  • @KatelyBately
    @KatelyBately Před měsícem +2

    I cannot wait for the next book! This series brought me to your channel!

  • @cierrapettis8739
    @cierrapettis8739 Před měsícem +1

    I’m just a tad obsessed with your reviews on these books lol. Also your voice is soothing.

  • @caem77
    @caem77 Před měsícem +2

    Okay. Wow. So I now realize I read the entirety of VC Andrew’s Ruby series, not The Dollangangers. Also I’m loving this series, if there’s another video coming then I’m turning on notifications 😂

  • @unsophisticatedlywellread
    @unsophisticatedlywellread Před měsícem +9

    Fine I will rewatch all the previous episodes again lol

  • @ivery32
    @ivery32 Před 20 dny

    I’m sorry, but “Rated E for everyone.” 56:53 SENT ME 😂😂😂

  • @carsonbennitt5065
    @carsonbennitt5065 Před 18 dny

    Pins and needles for the next book, you are the best!

  • @remremrem4011
    @remremrem4011 Před měsícem +1

    Ever since I saw tour first vídeo, I felt very surprised that my family let me read it. I remember crying a lot while reading it and I dropped the series with this book, it was simply to much. I couldn't finish it.
    So I asked my mom why the y let me read it.... Turns out they didn't, I read it without they're knowledge... My mom knew that I was sneakily reding it when I was half way through petals to the wind. She says that at that point she would just prepare for supporting me emotionally because she knew I wouldn't stop until I had satisfied my curiosity.
    This books are sad but I wanted for Cathy and Chris to be happy and free. But until this book I realized that, after what they went through, that would never be the case.
    This book left me good things bu I reaaaaallllly shouldn't had read it.

    • @xSwordLilyx
      @xSwordLilyx Před měsícem

      I don't know how old you were but I was not badly affected by reading VC. It helped me deal with things in my own life, honestly. I was already a suspense novel reader, though, I knew about all the horrors that can befall a person. My favorite book is Heaven, though.
      A lot to learn about dignity, knowing your worth, secrets, greed, dysfunction, shame, class, misogyny, religious extremism, being worthy of forgiveness, the dangers of love in these series.

  • @Therese504
    @Therese504 Před 29 dny

    I remember reading that VC Andrews herself was disabled/bedridden, making Cathy an even more direct authorial insert ! I read these books so very long ago that I had forgotten a ton of details about them! Thank you!

  • @piedcamelart
    @piedcamelart Před 17 dny

    I did not expect a free for all at the end in a house on fire.

  • @j3nntrrz24
    @j3nntrrz24 Před 28 dny +1

    I read this series too when I was entirely too young and impressionable. This is a series I sometimes think back on this and feel sympathy for these fictional characters. All except for Malcolm, he can rot in hades

  • @detyqueriouswells1466
    @detyqueriouswells1466 Před měsícem +1

    I've been waiting for this. Thank you for the breakdown

  • @annabellenonimous1302
    @annabellenonimous1302 Před měsícem

    I loooooove this series! Not the Dollanganger series, but this series explaining it. I will probably not read the books, but hearing you talk about them is super entertaining!

  • @AbigailGibbons
    @AbigailGibbons Před 15 dny +2

    the audible gasps i’ve been making throughout this series have been ridiculous

  • @Pepperjack1986
    @Pepperjack1986 Před měsícem

    The way I cackled and rubbed my hands together when Cathy beat the snot out of Corinne, smirking and saying "Gooooood." 😂😂😂

  • @mondaysrmurder3199
    @mondaysrmurder3199 Před měsícem

    Thank you so much for covering this series! I haven't read the Dollanganger series since I was a teenager! Love this!

  • @dstarpro
    @dstarpro Před měsícem

    Just wanted to drop by and say thank you for analyzing these books for us. I'd only read the first two in dribs and drabs, abandoning them perhaps because I wasn't ready for them. I have been following this series closely and eagerly, and can't wait for your next installment!

  • @Xenawarriorprince
    @Xenawarriorprince Před měsícem +10

    📌📍📌📍📌📍📌📍📌

  • @carysfebruary
    @carysfebruary Před měsícem

    Thank you for these recaps! I heard about these books and while I did want to read them at some point, I knew id have to be in the right mindset. Bc of you, Ive been able to listen and turn off if my stomach turns too much