Yah, this looks like a video that needed to happen. How better to compare than to actually see it, side-by-side, component by component (and even box to box). Nice job, Alexander!!!
There are no errata counters, the 4th Marines was a c3i variant, the Kwai counter is just a prettier version of what was in the original, with the only real addition was the South HQ counter that was also in c3i.
Rewatching this video as I am finally unpacking and organizing EotS during the holiday. Thank you so much Alexander for including how you organized your chits via turn (14:55) -- that was extremely helpful! Also, my order from Cube4Me arrived -- so far an excellent product and only one tray needed for EotS! Now on to Wilderness War... Happy New Year!
Convinced me for another GMT game ; purchased a copy (was a little challenge to find one available - but success on amazon today!). Very good presentation - Love your evaluations. Very appreciated to guide us in purchasing the games that match our preferences.
Note that the latest version of the Erasmus solitaire bot is freely available on Boardgame Geek for download. Thus the only change to the new printing is the inclusion of the South Pacific scenario (which can also be found in C3i magazine, as you said), and the single errated counter (which can be corrected with a pen for owners of the 2015 printing). And the latest version of the rulebook, but new living rulebook versions are par for the course. So owners of the 2015 printing don't need to feel compelled to buy the 2019 printing.
From an aesthetic point of view Empire of the Sun is my favorite game. I love the counters, the box & the map specifically. The game system is great, too - but the physical game itself is so beautiful. FYI - the River Kwai counter in C3I was an just a graphics change. The counter itself has been around since 1st ed.
you prolly dont give a shit but does any of you know of a tool to get back into an instagram account? I somehow lost my password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Greyson Griffin I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im trying it out atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Let us hope Mark Herman made a decent solo bot system this time. Churchill was a disaster. BUT this video is fantastic to compare things. I sold my 2nd edition copy. Very glad to compare !
Im on the P500 for the next printing. I had thought it would be good for solo. I didn't know it was faulted. Maybe they will revamp the solo for the next printing.
@@willyum3108 Nothing wrong with the solo bots for Churchill. You just need to adjust your expectations. They are NOT detailed instructions for how to play the opponent for every situation. Instead they're a generalized logic tree which presents a guidelined thought process to the human player, so that he can best determine the action that the bot should take given the state of the game. This method of informing the player as to how to determine what action the bot should take thus requires a bit of interpretation. Especially since the flow charts are physically limited on space, so a lot of logic shorthand is used to convey some pretty sophisticated considerations. All the above is why people don't like the Churchill bots. But it doesn't have anything to do with their actual application and effectiveness.
@@bgm-1961In reading your answer QUOTE... "They are NOT detailed instructions for how to play the opponent for every situation. Instead they're a generalized logic tree which presents a guidelined thought process to the human player, so that he can best determine the action that the bot should take given the state of the game..." …. is the main reason why I think this original Churchil bot sucks big time. I played it 3 times and frankly the solo bot is terrible in that game. What would you say IF you played any other game where the bot is just giving you an advice. How about Arkham Horror games or Lord of the Ring Living Card game that... just pull out an advice instead of creating some great tension and challenges to your solo game by an unexpected card draw or instruction? When I play any John Butterfield solo game I am playing AGAINST a bot that offers challenging play. The moment I need to tune or correct the bot or just get a direction, I am no longer playing a challenging board wargame but I am playing against myself in a thing that does not matter much as a BOT. Mark Herman never understood this throughout his whole career frankly. He ALWAYS presumed playing his games solo was a preparation for the "real thing", playing against other opponents. Even creating games where you switch from side A to side B if you would win too strongly on one side (which frankly is a terrible idea). NOW... I like playing wargames 2 sided too !!!! But anything is better than a bot which does not make detailed instructions as it is pretty obvious it fails what an AI Bot should do in the first place: offer you an unexpected challenge you will not have by playing 2 sides. Solo Design is an ART form frankly when you look at games like the D Day series, Enemy Action: Ardennes the SOLO expansion of Conflict of Heroes, Ambush, Labyrinth the War on Terror. ANYTIME I play an AI BOT and I need to constantly "correct" it in order to not make foolish mistakes or need to "enhance" it, the game falls complete FLAT for me. A great example would be the AI bot seen in LocknLoad. They licenced the AI bot of the COH solo expansion (codesign by Butterfield and Eickert) and copied it onto old existing scenarios as such. Never worked of course as pure solo games need to be tuned extremely well or they simply … fail as a challenging solo mechanism. You can not put a bunch of cards on an old existing scenario as such. "Aiding the AI bot to be smarter" is inferior to just playing 2 sides along to the best you can. So I am VERY interested if the Player Aid WILL do a video of the supposed NEW AI bot game of this game which apparently is now based on Flow Chart technology (as seen in some COINS and Hitlers Reich). Very curious about that. It would be a first for Mark Herman. But I want to see it in action first before I will rebuy things.
Besides the obvious color change on the one chart you noticed, the changes in color you are seeing are just normal occurrences in the offset printing industry. If they printed 1000 of these, the 1st good sheet off the press is going to look different than the last and they'll both look different from the 500th. Honestly, for being printed 3 years apart, the pressmen who printed all of the items did a pretty good job of matching color.
Alexander, awesome video!! I just got this game last week. As soon as I can clear the junk off my game desk, it's up next. How tough is the learning curve for this one?
It's pretty steep. The pay off though is well worth it. The hardest part of this game is trying to remember all the rules whilst you play. How many times have I cobbled together offensives and been half way through resolution when I see an EZOC that I crossed illegally to get there.. oops.. time to start rolling back, and now I've revealed my strategy and a card from my hand.. The VASAL module for this is excellent for learning.
We will, as we can/they are appropriate (it's rare that we have multiple editions of a game that are that significantly different). I have one for Paths of Glory in the works. Ironically we have no two different editions and yet have still not played it.
I have the first edition, the mounted map for the first edition and the second edition. Since I'm not interested in the solo system or in the training scenario, the only real gain with this new edition would be the deeper box? I can't store my cards in the current box so it's not a completely insignificant difference but I wish GMT could sell the box separately.
@@ThePlayersAid They actually do sell the box separately for a limited time. And if you only hae the first edition, Romain, you might want to grab this one. This has the updated art (Jap Navy is white, Jap Army is yellow, US Army is green, US Navy is blue). There are also some modifications to the 1st edition cards and some additional ones in 2nd edition. Also some changes in the rules to overland supply in 2nd edition. In other words, if you only have 1st edition, get this reprint.
I keep telling myself that I should get this before it sells out yet again, but something always comes up. My game purchases through the summer have already been scheduled out/paid for. And I can't justify a 3 inch box without more shelf space. Still....I covet this game. Is it the "ultimate" Pacific game? I've seen many reviewed and played but it's up there. The only negative I can think of is that the map doesn't show enough. I'd love a version of this that has all of China and all of India. But since this is primarily US vs. Japan, I guess that's purposely out of its scope.
Yeah, that part of the war (specifically china) is abstracted away, but it still of vital importance. This could very well be some people's ultimate Pacific Game. I think it's very much up there for me. I like this, and then Pacific Victory from Columbia for lighter fair/single sitting.
I'd love to just buy the new box for my 1st printing. lol :-) Would be sort of nice if they offered an upgrade pack for those of us who already own the first printing of the 2nd edition.
Love this game. I have 2015 edition And I can fit everything in my box, cards, the map, even a small plastic box with units. You need to train your tactical skills ;).
Yah, this looks like a video that needed to happen. How better to compare than to actually see it, side-by-side, component by component (and even box to box). Nice job, Alexander!!!
There are no errata counters, the 4th Marines was a c3i variant, the Kwai counter is just a prettier version of what was in the original, with the only real addition was the South HQ counter that was also in c3i.
Rewatching this video as I am finally unpacking and organizing EotS during the holiday.
Thank you so much Alexander for including how you organized your chits via turn (14:55) -- that was extremely helpful!
Also, my order from Cube4Me arrived -- so far an excellent product and only one tray needed for EotS! Now on to Wilderness War...
Happy New Year!
Convinced me for another GMT game ; purchased a copy (was a little challenge to find one available - but success on amazon today!). Very good presentation - Love your evaluations. Very appreciated to guide us in purchasing the games that match our preferences.
Note that the latest version of the Erasmus solitaire bot is freely available on Boardgame Geek for download. Thus the only change to the new printing is the inclusion of the South Pacific scenario (which can also be found in C3i magazine, as you said), and the single errated counter (which can be corrected with a pen for owners of the 2015 printing).
And the latest version of the rulebook, but new living rulebook versions are par for the course. So owners of the 2015 printing don't need to feel compelled to buy the 2019 printing.
From an aesthetic point of view Empire of the Sun is my favorite game. I love the counters, the box & the map specifically. The game system is great, too - but the physical game itself is so beautiful. FYI - the River Kwai counter in C3I was an just a graphics change. The counter itself has been around since 1st ed.
you prolly dont give a shit but does any of you know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?
I somehow lost my password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Leonidas Korbyn instablaster ;)
@Greyson Griffin I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im trying it out atm.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Greyson Griffin It worked and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my ass :D
@Leonidas Korbyn happy to help =)
Let us hope Mark Herman made a decent solo bot system this time. Churchill was a disaster.
BUT this video is fantastic to compare things. I sold my 2nd edition copy. Very glad to compare !
That's funny that you mention issues with the Churchill bots... I've generally heard positive things about them.
Im on the P500 for the next printing. I had thought it would be good for solo. I didn't know it was faulted. Maybe they will revamp the solo for the next printing.
@@willyum3108 Nothing wrong with the solo bots for Churchill. You just need to adjust your expectations. They are NOT detailed instructions for how to play the opponent for every situation. Instead they're a generalized logic tree which presents a guidelined thought process to the human player, so that he can best determine the action that the bot should take given the state of the game. This method of informing the player as to how to determine what action the bot should take thus requires a bit of interpretation. Especially since the flow charts are physically limited on space, so a lot of logic shorthand is used to convey some pretty sophisticated considerations.
All the above is why people don't like the Churchill bots. But it doesn't have anything to do with their actual application and effectiveness.
@@bgm-1961In reading your answer QUOTE... "They are NOT detailed instructions for how to play the opponent for every situation. Instead they're a generalized logic tree which presents a guidelined thought process to the human player, so that he can best determine the action that the bot should take given the state of the game..."
…. is the main reason why I think this original Churchil bot sucks big time. I played it 3 times and frankly the solo bot is terrible in that game.
What would you say IF you played any other game where the bot is just giving you an advice. How about Arkham Horror games or Lord of the Ring Living Card game that... just pull out an advice instead of creating some great tension and challenges to your solo game by an unexpected card draw or instruction?
When I play any John Butterfield solo game I am playing AGAINST a bot that offers challenging play. The moment I need to tune or correct the bot or just get a direction, I am no longer playing a challenging board wargame but I am playing against myself in a thing that does not matter much as a BOT.
Mark Herman never understood this throughout his whole career frankly. He ALWAYS presumed playing his games solo was a preparation for the "real thing", playing against other opponents. Even creating games where you switch from side A to side B if you would win too strongly on one side (which frankly is a terrible idea).
NOW... I like playing wargames 2 sided too !!!! But anything is better than a bot which does not make detailed instructions as it is pretty obvious it fails what an AI Bot should do in the first place: offer you an unexpected challenge you will not have by playing 2 sides.
Solo Design is an ART form frankly when you look at games like the D Day series, Enemy Action: Ardennes the SOLO expansion of Conflict of Heroes, Ambush, Labyrinth the War on Terror. ANYTIME I play an AI BOT and I need to constantly "correct" it in order to not make foolish mistakes or need to "enhance" it, the game falls complete FLAT for me.
A great example would be the AI bot seen in LocknLoad. They licenced the AI bot of the COH solo expansion (codesign by Butterfield and Eickert) and copied it onto old existing scenarios as such. Never worked of course as pure solo games need to be tuned extremely well or they simply … fail as a challenging solo mechanism. You can not put a bunch of cards on an old existing scenario as such. "Aiding the AI bot to be smarter" is inferior to just playing 2 sides along to the best you can.
So I am VERY interested if the Player Aid WILL do a video of the supposed NEW AI bot game of this game which apparently is now based on Flow Chart technology (as seen in some COINS and Hitlers Reich). Very curious about that. It would be a first for Mark Herman. But I want to see it in action first before I will rebuy things.
Besides the obvious color change on the one chart you noticed, the changes in color you are seeing are just normal occurrences in the offset printing industry. If they printed 1000 of these, the 1st good sheet off the press is going to look different than the last and they'll both look different from the 500th. Honestly, for being printed 3 years apart, the pressmen who printed all of the items did a pretty good job of matching color.
Alexander, awesome video!! I just got this game last week. As soon as I can clear the junk off my game desk, it's up next. How tough is the learning curve for this one?
It's pretty steep. The pay off though is well worth it. The hardest part of this game is trying to remember all the rules whilst you play. How many times have I cobbled together offensives and been half way through resolution when I see an EZOC that I crossed illegally to get there.. oops.. time to start rolling back, and now I've revealed my strategy and a card from my hand.. The VASAL module for this is excellent for learning.
Superbly done comparison and display.
thank you I appreciate the comparison. Do more!!!
We will, as we can/they are appropriate (it's rare that we have multiple editions of a game that are that significantly different). I have one for Paths of Glory in the works. Ironically we have no two different editions and yet have still not played it.
@@ThePlayersAid thank you for the reply. Keep up the good work.
I have the first edition, the mounted map for the first edition and the second edition. Since I'm not interested in the solo system or in the training scenario, the only real gain with this new edition would be the deeper box? I can't store my cards in the current box so it's not a completely insignificant difference but I wish GMT could sell the box separately.
I wish they would too, they did for Labyrinth when it had an expansion.
@@ThePlayersAid They actually do sell the box separately for a limited time. And if you only hae the first edition, Romain, you might want to grab this one. This has the updated art (Jap Navy is white, Jap Army is yellow, US Army is green, US Navy is blue). There are also some modifications to the 1st edition cards and some additional ones in 2nd edition. Also some changes in the rules to overland supply in 2nd edition.
In other words, if you only have 1st edition, get this reprint.
Where can I get the expanded solo (11 page) booklet. I have the 2nd edition, but not the 2nd printing.
Not sure if it's available separately. Maybe shoot gmt an email email ask?
What's the difference between printings in the second edition of the game?
I keep telling myself that I should get this before it sells out yet again, but something always comes up. My game purchases through the summer have already been scheduled out/paid for. And I can't justify a 3 inch box without more shelf space. Still....I covet this game. Is it the "ultimate" Pacific game? I've seen many reviewed and played but it's up there. The only negative I can think of is that the map doesn't show enough. I'd love a version of this that has all of China and all of India. But since this is primarily US vs. Japan, I guess that's purposely out of its scope.
Yeah, that part of the war (specifically china) is abstracted away, but it still of vital importance. This could very well be some people's ultimate Pacific Game. I think it's very much up there for me. I like this, and then Pacific Victory from Columbia for lighter fair/single sitting.
Reading through the rules now - it's next up on my table!
Any chance of a review of the new solo bot in the future?
At some point, for sure.
I'd love to just buy the new box for my 1st printing. lol :-) Would be sort of nice if they offered an upgrade pack for those of us who already own the first printing of the 2nd edition.
Kinda surprised they don't, they did for Labyrinth with the expansion etc.
I'll cross fingers that maybe it will still come.
Oh yeah there was the South Pacific too. They need to make it happen.
Are you talking about this?
www.gmtgames.com/p-751-empire-of-the-sun-3-deep-box-from-2019-3rd-printing.aspx
Why doesn’t GMT start a P500 on extra rule books ? How can 2 people learn this game with 1 rule book ?! 🤷♂️ GMT take my money !
Love this game. I have 2015 edition And I can fit everything in my box, cards, the map, even a small plastic box with units. You need to train your tactical skills ;).
Even with the mounted board?!
@@ThePlayersAid Yes :) i.imgur.com/Z5I3Zjp.jpg
@@tomj.7599 No sleeves man :( no sleeves