Tesla Exec Revolutionizes Breaker Panels Forever - Finish-Out - 3
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Electric Pro Academy - Real skills to make real money.
Synopsis:
Part 3
Out with the old, in with the new! The SPAN panel is taller and (significantly) heavier than a normal panel, and has a thorough software commissioning stage of installation that is (obviously) not standard for other panels, so this made things a challenge. Thankfully, SPAN has excellent training and customer service to tap into, which allowed us to get this project wrapped up (mostly). Here’s what went smoothly and not so smoothly in our maiden install.
If the instruction in this video is unclear or skew to what you are searching for, feel free to comment below for additional assistance.
EPro-To-Call:
You’ve got the tools and the willingness to solve your own electrical problem, but are held up by a couple ominous details. Rather than hiring out the whole project, get EPro’s own Joel Walsman on a video or voice call here: electric-pro-academy.square.s...
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National Electrical Code (NEC) referenced in this video:
Free Access Here: link.nfpa.org/free-access/pub...
[] Top Overcurrent Device Under 6’7” [NEC 240.24]
[] Panel Cover Screw Requirements [NEC 314.5]
[] Overcurrent Devices Not Up & “On” [NEC 240.33 & 240.81]
Outline:
0:00 - Project Recap
0:47 - Wire Entry & Mounting Of SPAN Panel
2:22 - Main Terminations
9:35 - Branch Circuit Wire Entry
14:47 - Bringing Panel Online
18:22 - Branch Circuit Terminations & Software Troubleshooting
27:39 - Resolution, Testing, & Some Takeaways
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12:50, i discovered one of the outlets in my house, the clamp was tighted too hard, and it cut all the way into the hot, livening the entire box!
but there was also no gnd in the romex, so it never popped a breaker
it was like that for years, until i tried running an audio cable between devices on different circuits, and got a nasty surprise!
Joel, you open our eyes to new things every time. Thank you very much.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and your words of wisdom.
🎉 Great video…always comforting to see fellow pros goof…Talking & working same time…anytime clients want to talk I immediately tell them it’s extra
Yes, thank you for letting us see your mistakes, and how you address them!
Ratchet strap hooked to ceiling holding pannel.... you said "smarter not harder."....love your appre iation of the trades.... plumber since 1988
I've used pipe strapping straight across above the panel and zip-tied the nm to organize before and worked pretty well.
@26:36 yup, soo true. Just had mine installed & it's a MUST!
(Preface: I'm a former U/L inspector, & an electronics / electrical tech / company owner.. 40+ years AND I love electronics!)
Per the posts about this company being around for a while... and concerns about disassembling the entire panel in case of an electronics glitch: The elephant in the room seems ( to me..) to be a rather quick comment Joel made along the lines of (my paraphrase..) the 200 amp existing panel can be bought for about $125.., The SPAN panel (by my research) is about 20 to 30 times that..
That means the time/ cost of troubleshooting, disassembling & repairing the SPAN panel would be a significant concern to a few of us. That's a lot more than the cost of just a few smart hubs. I MIGHT be able to afford one of these, but when the electronics go dead in the middle of a snow storm, and the parts are so proprietary that there are none locally and the option is overnighting it. AFTER the electricians diagnosis and then install.... I guess I'd better have a rather robust Powerwall... oh and that might not help if this panel is the control point for the house.....
👴Y'know, when I was your age, electrical panels were just hunks of metal and plastic in the wall. They couldn't host malware or spy on the occupants of the house or be used to control your behaviour.
😨"Grampa, please! You'll get us all in trouble"!
Thanks for the video. I’m early in the process of getting solar/battery and just contacted SPAN to start the process. My house was built in 1988, more sub-panels than a house should have. I’m anxious how SPAN will work for us, but nice to now how it will start
I do IT and what concerns me, is tech fails, often. Replacing the board in that panel isnt an easy swap, and labor has to be up there
Yeah that is the only problem I'm seeing with this product is there are components that could go bad...
At the same time, if they are made with quality they could last a long time too.
Agree; this panel needs to be a lot more modular so that an individual circuit can be replaced if necessary.
Exactly I don’t want my house losing power because of a random WiFi module failure
This guy is about making the most amount of money possible installing breaker panels.
Panelboards and load centers are housed inside of cabinets and cutout boxes, which are literally large junction boxes that are meant to contain conductors and splices/connections. Whether you use the terminals only or do other splices with wire nuts, there is no code against it, so long as you don't exceed the allowable volume (which is hard to do).
but still some people try to stack wire splice's ( high resistance aka loosely ) aka 3 different wire nut's to the same braker ( going to the same circuit or 3 different circuits as it was different times for me seeing this crap 💩) on the same wire going to it 🤦🏻♂ im sure a code enforcement could find something to reject it and fall the testing thankfully, but i have come across someone's else's work before me and 🤪🤦🏻♂not sure whose work it was but wow unprofessional and tidy mannered
Wish they had pre drilled holes with water tight plugs. Drilling and making metal shavings is not great.
Joel, ethernet over power adapters. Very cost effective for internet of things interconnection. These devices don't require large data bandwidth, so heaps of options available.
Would be a good idea to blur the SPAN activation QR codes. It’s probably secured since you already activated it but could potentially allow unauthorized access.
yeaaa, i was wondering the same thing haha
I love the panel can you do a review on what the benefits of the panel are???
You are the ideal employer to work for bc you teach as you go and understand what has to happen to get the job done correctly. When I started out I was taught by a very wise electrician and I listened to him when he spoke and he was the owner of the company. At first it was just him and I but after I became a Journeyman he hired another employee and let me teach him the ropes. After I became a master electrician and the employee I trained became a journeyman he hired another employee and so on. I basically took over the company and he retired and I payed him royalties. Finally his son took over the business and ended up closing it down but I worked there for 25 years but I still hold on to the values he taught me today. You remind me of him so much
This is high praise, thanks @geezus1201!
Nice job
You may be sure that you aren't inspiring too many homeowners to get this! 8-)
The 1/8" allen screws are actually a lot more common that you might think. They can be found to fit into a 1/4: drive screwdriver extension that can be put on a 1/4" or 3/8" socket for torque wrench, or to a small screwdriver with multi-bit on it.
That said, I have never seen a allen screw in a electrical panel or any sort of electrical device, except the 3/8" lugs found on the 100 - 200 amp lugs.
For the Tesla connection you could use a line of sight (AKA point to point) Ethernet bridge or a WiFi extender.
I think working for Jefferson Electric may be my dream job
Huge upgrade !!! Not for the average home, especially at that price !!!
Wow, that is tight inside that panel. Not sure I would enjoy working in such cramped space
While the Span can connect over WiFi Span recommends an Ethernet connection. Fortunately I had a couple of spools of CAT 5e and the company installing the panel ran the cable for me.
OK I have to say I like the lights and it would be amazing if they were battery backed.
What happens if the electronics go out on that panel do you have to replace the panel or the individual part.
Communication cable AKA Ethernet or very old school CAT3 Telecom Cable is over 60 years old it’s solid Cooper conductors @ 24 and 26 Gauge. CAT5e is from 2005 rated at 26Awg and CAT6 24AWG with a(4) plastic splines in the cable to separate the (4) sets of 2 twisted conductors remember CAT5e, CAT6, CAT6A Insulated are 24AWG also per the NEMA Code communication wires are required to be 12 inches away from electrical wire, if the run in parallel!
50 seconds in, you mentioned a video card that didn't pop up for all of the equipment in the garage. I'm interested!!
Once installed, when you approach this thing, does it say: 'Where have you been so long? Could you please scratch my back now?'
Hello, what size drive is that torque wrench that you are using for 250" pounds, it looks like a 1/2" drive......Bob
Some devices need a network and internet connection to communicate with an app or software to function normally. But. What if that when the device sense no Internet from a ISP having constant outagees like, Cox. Or no Internet from a hurricane. Does the Span app goes wonky or does it just goes into lock out mode? Making all those cool features like remote switching and energy monitoring stop. So the fancy looking load center just became a fancy looking load center? If so, might as well be like Leviton and sell a pretty white box with white breakers.. For now, white paint and the old school load centers for reliability.
Hi why do you not use copper cable which more better conductors for customers and your Jobs?
33:50 surprised that Steve doesn’t have a Span panel in front of him
Thoughts on this vs the Leviton Smart Load Center?
I myself prefer the Leviton smart load especially if you install the WiFi breakers that allow similar power quality readouts circuit by circuit. The main reason is that Leviton is a full-on engineering company that makes its own breakers that counts for a lot whereas with the smart panel uses breakers from other manufacturers unless they release engineering data on that integration I would be wary of it. Though Joe does say their customer support is excellent.
Some questions to answer:
1. Is it UL certified?
2. Does it play well with AFCI and GFCI devices? How about other electronics and IoT devices?
3. My guess is that they are probably using SCR's for circuit control but these electronics do not isolate voltage potential on the branch circuits. Should GFCI protection be required for all receptacle circuits? Maybe AFCI should be included too?
4. Does the 2023 code address this technology?
5. A software app is not adequate to isolate circuits that need to remain on! Measurement is one thing, but making sure a circuit does not go off is another.
6. What sort of software support commitment comes from this company?
7. What if the company goes bankrupt? I see a need for a very large escrow account. (make sure you keep the original panel for this alone).
How do you get the fillable PDF? I never got one from my installer or SPAN and I have not been able to find it on their website or the app. Is this just something that installers have access to?
while I get testing each breaker ... but isnt the panel smart enought to tell if there is no draw on any line?
my main concern with this pannel is that the company will not be around in lets say like 10 years and all the "smart" functionality will be dead and then you'll end haveing over payed for a regular pannel or it will go completely dead
This is an aspect where technology has surpassed regulations. Ideally, if this company goes under, the propriety software would be required to become open source and another company or open source programmers could re-enable the smart features.
Honestly I don’t see that happening…..with all the new home batteries and solar being installed in homes
A smart brain-is needed and this fills the niche.
@@benjaminvivar7855 I must be missing what this panel offers ? Solar and batteries have there own apps ,data monitoring and programming.
@@persona250 Imagine a spot on the Electrical Distribution system where solar power, batteries, electrical utility, house generator, car charger and the house loads all meet in one area.
That would be the Main Electrical Panel or the SPAN Panel, by having Span Panel in a centralized location, with smart capabilities and SOFTWARE ! The future is, let’s say your Tesla is fully charged and in the evenings your electrical rates are through the roof. Well with a smart system (Span system) your car would be able to run all your house electrical loads. The system doesn’t have to tell you, it automatically would disconnect from the utility and have your car run your house. I don’t know if span can currently do that but that’s the future different electrical sources being manipulated
To charge batteries, maybe a sunny day house can run off of solar power, all these situations effortlessly. That is awesome you’d control your energy. What Span does it connects and controls all loads and power sources.
@@benjaminvivar7855 no the span panel cannot do what you claim . Vehicle to grid doesn’t exist yet . The panel has no changeover switch so no generator connection.
What does it do ?
Just to let you know from Anaheim California to San Francisco California. It is about a nine-hour drive.
But if you take an airplane. Between both cities. It is about an hour and a half.
4 days by EV
San Francisco to Anaheim is 407mi, 6h22min according to my maps application.
What if some of the electronics inside the panel fails? Do you have to pull the whole thing out again?
I think they may even already be a thing, but instead of the panel holding the brains, it should be in the individual breaker and that would make things a lot more convenient if something fails.
20:20 How about a powerline internet controller? the garage is attached to the main panel, internet could be sent over those wires rather than digging a new trench. You think Span would have a built in powerline controller for sending internet via your house wiring?
Power line networking sucks for performance, if you can get it to work at all.
@@shubinternet I doubt you need high data rates to communicate to a Tesla powerwall and report status.
@@ericfraser7543 - true, you shouldn't need much speed. But you do need something, and it needs to be reasonably reliable. Power line cables are not meant for doing those things or doing them reliably, with regards to computer networking.
@@shubinternet You are probably right, though ethernet/wifi is probably not the best choice for a smart home interface to something like a tesla powerwall... The problem is in the marketing, nothing else more standardized than ethernet or wifi...
Why do you not put QO panels in?
You may be able to check the system in thinking it has a land connection using two wireless routers set up as access points with nothing else connected to them just bridging a network in this situation if it ever comes up again and you're unable to have an easier solution
Thanks @waylonhartwell! We'll keep that in the back pocket 👌
a ubiquiti wifi bridge to the garage would be a good solution for your problem
Hey Joel, stupid question...when you first commission the panel, does it required wifi/cell signal? If so, just thinking worst case, what if you don't have cell signal at the area of install, does the panel still works like a old school panel before you could commission it...(thinking wifi won't work w/o power😅)...Thanks for the tips, keep up the good work!
A Span panel does require ethernet, wifi or cellular for full smart functionality, but it will work just fine as a dumb panel under any and all adverse circumstances.
@@ElectricProAcademyMakes perfect sense! Thanks!
I don’t think iPhones alway work in setup of IoT they work when done but not in setup.
I too had an issue with sense energy setup of Wi-Fi setup not working, but with a iPod able to setup. After all in done works with iPhone.
every breaker box video i watch involves struggling to get the box in because you have to fight getting the live feed wires through the top and bottom,, why dont the breaker box manufacturers make the top /bottom holes on a separate plate with a half collar that slides in and screws into place from the from the front so that the wires can be easily fed / attached without the struggle?
no Arc Fault breakers?
Future note for a job if it cost more to run cable use a pair Ubiquiti NanoStations as your ethernet connection.
So from Anaheim to San Francisco it's about give or take 450 MI Anaheim is located in Orange County not Los Angeles even though a lot of people tend to categorize Orange County as Los Angeles but it's not I used to live in Anaheim and I've made the drive to San Francisco it's doable in 8 hours
Two days by EV
Why don't they make that panel in a 42 space like most other panel manufacturers?
Another great upgrade would be to replace the twister pair Ethernet link with fiber. That would remove the potential for electrical interference. The difference in cost is negligible.
Since the original equipment has ethernet interface chaning to fibre requires media converters, these require power, have dip switch settings, become very problematic. Use well terminated STP cable routed correctly never had issues.
And why would you make the panel live before youre finished??
I still feel like I dont grasp the value of this panel. The big difference is that you can cycle the breakers via internet connection?
The biggest benefit is in flexibility. You can assign different breakers to different groups, so like when the power goes out, subset B stays on, and if the power stays out for 15 minutes, you can change to subset C to keep the power on for an extended period.
This can all be done in software and on the fly, meaning not only do you not have to wire all of your preferred circuits into a separate essential load centre, but you can change these at any time without a whole rewire. You can even adjust it while the power is out to extend your backup time. You can also set conditions like if it's winter power these certain circuits, or overnight only power the bedrooms, etc.
The Span panel is also capable of integrating with solar and battery to implement all of that.
Side benefit is you have complete visibility to your power usage and cost on a circuit by circuit basis, but the big sell is the flexibility for resiliency.
@@chaseohara4781 Oooo its also a UPS?
@@beachboardfan9544 no, but can interface with backup systems to take note of power level and adjust breakers depending on that
I was under the impression that low voltage and comms cables couldn't be run in the same chases and conduits as 120/240v. Are you saying they can if the jacket is rated for 300v?
@@hoocli Be interesting to see how long they last. Old style systems are still being replaced, 50+ year old systems. I feel like the fancier these get the more frequently they'll fail...
your identification labels are up side down on your your breakers
I heard a lots of problem with setup SPAM system. Need to works all the bugs out and lower the price before I want to get one. Also SPAM software need to integrate to other more popular Solar and Battery software. To me, SPAM consist of heavy duty relays for each circuits control by software on the cloud nothing new..
Cliff has a bump on the back / right (I think) side of his neck. Might be nothing, mosquito bite, but he may want to get that checked out.
Why use aluminum? Use copper, you can size down and it will be easier to get the panel up.
Because some of us have to run multiple hundred feet. More than one time.
Fans are just not a good idea for a power panel. Really should have found alternative cooling methods.
Why don’t you think fans a good idea?
Fans can introduce dust and vapours you may not want inside an electrical panel. I suppose one day the industry will require electronic monitoring but for now I’m still wrapping my head around arc fault breakers
Hopefully, one day, the company won’t implement a monthly fee to their software/panel combo to take advantage of some new updates or extra features. 😅
“For additional $19.99 per month, our latest update will allow you to save 75% of your annual electricity consumption. Your savings will come to $53 annually” 😂
Relax - I know I’m exaggerating. The monthly fee will be only $11.99 😮
Use a powerline Ethernet device and save yourself the headache of trenching.
Net gear makes one that has a LAN port and a wap so then you have wifi out there too.
Power line sucks if it’s not the same circuit…
@@itszachcarter8370 you may have just had bad devices I've installed over 100 of my previous employers' products and seen people run IPTV on others. They work pretty well also it's not like it's for a gaming or UTP-based service. It just needs a connection.
Why?
The cost of a dependable car for a service panel? Your customer must be a Richard, if you know what I mean.
Your videos are very entertaining but I am concerned that you always have holes in your gloves. Isn't that highly unsafe?
They aren’t electricity insulated gloves, he’s wearing them to protect his hands from being cut. Depending on the task at hand I’ll wear gloves with some holes in the fingers for a bit longer. I tend to get bit on the back of my hand more than the fingers when working.
They actually sell gloves like this. They're called framer gloves, I think. Basically the thumb and two fingers are left off so you can grip the nail. Anyways, it makes a pot of tasks easier to have the fingers exposed, but still protects the rest of the hand from scratches, etc.
They're uninsulated anyways, as the above comment says.
I don’t like that the grounds are only one sided … 6000 Dollars for a panel they should provide 2 ground bars ….
Some people have more dollars than sense
After watching all these videos and as a 25 year electrician, these are not worth it for the electrician or the customer. Youre not making 10k. The panel cost 4k before taxes. There are so many issues with this panel that you actually highlighted in the video.
Not trying to sound like a hater 😂 very fancy span box but u guys think those cooling fans will last more then 5 to 10 years 😂plus dust and debris. Those fans will be getting clogged and to repair them oh heck no that panel looks like it’s a liability 😂😂😂
Dust is a valid concern. It'd be amazing if electricians inspected and cleaned up panels every time they opened them up. We've got a $150 line item that provides a thorough, check, clean, torque...
The average American Home Owner lives in their home 7 years ?? Well, I guess I'm not average ! I lived in my home 36 years since I bought it brand new back in 1986 !!!
Installing more than 2 cables in NM clamp connectors on an educational video... for shame sir LOL
This panel is a waste of time and money
Doesn't seem worth the trouble or money at all
Why would anyone want an electric panel to connect to the Internet ? Also the Internet is unreliable so then what happens ? And all that phone crap... AND ANOTHER DAMN PASSWORD ? That's the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen in all my life. I'd never get that crap.
whats the differance betweena professional and an ameture....one gets paid.....would a safety minded electrician hook up a panel live when not absolutely neccessary....would they leave caables stripped to far {like that incoming neutral} how about turning on the main breaker to a sub panel with your right hand....are you kidding... left hand rule guy....oh and heres a real beauty tap on the incoming lines with your finger i dont care if its got plastic cases or not... ya DONT take that risk for any reason PLEASE folkd dont follow this guys videos for anything other than for signs of what NOT to do
Just use push in plastic connectors, that’s what I use all the time on my panel Make-ups, and you can use them all the way back…!!!