How to rate your landings like a REAL PILOT - without any fancy tools | Real Airline Pilot
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- čas přidán 16. 12. 2023
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Glad someone finally called out all the landing rate tools out there.
So many people need to watch this and stop with the stupid "butter" meme and all those overlays that mislead newbies. "A good landing starts with a good stabilized approach". You can't fix the last 4 seconds when you messed up the previous few minutes.
I immediately stop watching or reading when I hear somebody mention butter.
Ever heard of mayonnaise landing?
What about the “when it says 5 you know”… annoys me so much lol
Its always more enjoyable to land with a firm touchdown instead of the eternal float scraping the ground
@@unclealigwhat the hell is a mayonnaise landing?
Another invaluable video that enhances our skills as pilots - and it’s free! A huge thank you, Emanuel! ...................…and a million likes for this amazing content! 💪
Thank you so much!
You can get Emi out of Ryanair but you can't get the Ryanair out of Emi 😝
I also do not use any of those tools. The numbers are all over the place anyway and I do not really care too much. Sometimes I had landings on the 737 that felt perfect and Volanta showed me -450ft/min. So yeah, I don't care :D
😂😂😂
Had a landing last night at Vagar that Volanta showed as roughly -80 but another landing rate monitor showed as -200.
All that I look for now days is the G upon landing. I aim for 1.1G or under, smooth FPM is an added bonus.
I had a really gentle, smooth landing the other day that SmartCARS showed around 650fpm. But another landing a few days prior came up as something like 12fpm.... And I felt like I'd slammed it down Ryanair style that time.
This is very interesting.
I had heard elsewhere not to care about ft/min, but instead go to try and land on the aiming markers on the runway as a priority.
It is interesting to hear that this isn't the case exactly, but is instead based off of the flare, without mention of the markets.
That was beautiful to watch! Thank you for going over the theory.
Interesting theory and beautiful showcase of it. I think one more thing that makes this approach very interesting is the slope of the runway.
Great idea for a flight sim video and presented in excellent fashion as usual. Thanks!
Your insights are so valuable for me as a "sim-only guy". Thank you very much!
On ACARS I can select an approach report after landing which reports multiple data points about the final segment. One of which is time to touchdown after 50 foot RA. Perf data at my airline is based on 7 seconds to touchdown. 9 or 10 seconds is typical touching down about 1500-1800’ down runway.
The funny thing is that on the 787 irl if u go to system and than maintenance after you land it tells u ur fmp I think it’s the the only aircraft that does it
Thank you for this video
What a great video and a huge eyeopener for some people😄
Great video!! This confirms what a lot of us have been complaining about within the flight sim community regarding with this toxic obsession of ft/min landing descent rate. It is one of the main reasons why I left a virtual airline as it was completely unrealistic and unreasonable.
I feel you, part of those strict measurements of some VAs are also the reason why I don’t fly for VAs anymore.
What VA was it?
@@xeels2708 I think it was DLH Virtual, they had (at the time) a landing rate policy of like 300 feet per minute max, or maybe 250. Virtual Air Canada also has (or had?) A policy but they were a bit more forgiving. The issue was that if it happened "too often" they would reject the PIREPs. I just find any ft/minute policy for a VIRTUAL airline completely ridiculous. It's a sim. Most of us aren't professional pilots, and a lot of the virtual pilots are beginners who are mostly looking for a community that can help them to learn, not reprimand. The best VA that I was in was Atlantic Sun Airways. They only had a policy of 1 flight per 2 months or so. They didn't care for the rest. I left Atlantic Sun because the schedule wasn't inspiring me, and with Volanta, I find it meets my needs of logging my flights and pretty much giving me "carte blanche" of what I want to do, where I want to fly, with the aircraft I want, etc.
My main issue with many VAs is the way they treat it like they're actually paying you... No, I don't want to turn up to my pretend job this month... Why does that mean I should have my account deleted? That makes no sense.
Perfect time for this video. I was thinking if I should use one of these rating tools the other day. I am now convinced it’s not necessary and not very realistic.
The only time you get your landing rate (and most importantly g load) in the real world is if you f***’ed up and the plane puts out a hard landing report. Apart from that you got to judge your landings yourself (or by the passengers complaints when they deboard)
That is a very good reminder 😅
As a person getting back into the flight sim world, specifically on Xbox, your videos have been immeasurably helpful. I have fallen in love with the PMDG 737-600, and your tutorial series helped me learn a huge amount, so thank you. I have one question, I usually struggle on using the correct thrust during approach but I saw you went idle about 5 miles out. Was this because of the steeper gradient? Or depending on weather conditions a recommended technique for normal 3° glide slopes? I also use the controller, and no peripherals 😅.
Thank you!
I went IDLE because I wanted to reduce speed. The 737 flies excellent in IDLE on a 3 degree descent path with flaps 5.
@@A330Driver appreciate the clarity, thank you
Almost perfect and safe landing
Hi Emanuel, excellent tuition as usual. I have a related question re view position. I have watched the zoom video but mine is height related. I have a single side physical 737-800 setup and unsure of seat height. I have heard of tips such as being high enough to only just see autobrake led, some who say should see wiper bolt/nose structure. Would appreciate your real life reflection of how you set up when sat down. Thanks in advance. Alistair
Great video! Well done! Just would like to ask about VS - it may not be so important rating landings but in reality it is important not to damage gears (means slow enough). Shall we consider it as well as part of landing rate? Thank you!
The VS is not considered as part of a good landing. And below 1000fpm you won’t break your plane.
What about wet/slippery conditions? Ive read Boeing/Airbus recommend firm landing for better initial breaking action? And it's ok to use high brake setting as anti-lock should work as designed. That was years ago not sure if total nonsense😂
It’s still true, if the runway is wet or contaminated a “positive” touchdown is still recommended. You can use whichever brake setting you want, Anti Skid will prevent wheel skidding.
It would be awesome to see you rate your viewers landings since you your an irl pilot and can actually accurately rate them like you showed in this video. Would love to see a video like this!!!
Yeah that would be cool
Obviously I could not just go out and pick random CZcams videos of flight simmers and rate them, but I kinda like the idea of volunteers sending in their vids and assessing them. I’ll make a note for a future video, thank you!
@@A330Driver Yeah i was thinking viewers would send them in
@@A330Driver we should do something like Swiss001‘s challenge, but with actually well rated landings
There is a huge fascination with landing rates and greasing the landing on MSFS. It’s always been that way. I would say 99% of my landings are less than 250 FPM in large jets and probably -50 or so on smaller planes. I’ve never used a landing rate monitor and I’ve been using MSFS since 2002. It took some getting used to 2020, so I had some rougher landings, but now I’m as good as before. I find that if I don’t fly a plane for a few weeks or longer I can have poor landings. Even when I think my landings are harder, a look outside on recording shows a normal landing you’d see in any airport view from the outside spot view. I see some really good landings on streams in MSFS and people say it was floated, too long, or hard. You can’t win and you certainly know when you have a good landing or not with experience.
How much of these criteria would you apply for GA landings? Is it okay to flare beyond the touchdown points with a small business jet or piston plane? Afterall most runways are several times longer than the required length for them.
Depends a lot on the type in question. Check the POH of the plane (Google has almost all of them!) for the landing technique recommended by the manufacturer and apply that to your flying.
Emi, we need your thoughts on latest RSR update re: 777. Would you 'guess' we're talking January??
Hi, im under NDA for anything upcoming PMDG related so I’m afraid I can’t answer here. Sorry 😅
Great information Sir!! Thanks
Thank you Kevin
I’ve been having issues with the a/c going crazy when AP is deactivated after a long haul. Last thing one needs after a 6 hour realtime flight is to turn into a grease stain. Have you seen this after the latest update? I pretty much fly PMDG 737 exclusively and specifically the bbj.
I’ve never seen that happen. Please contact PMDGs support, I’m sure they will be able to help.
Anyway. It would be great to have a tool like „Stable Approach“ in Xplane that also rates the approach among many other factors.
Indeed it would!
I'd like someone to write a fancy plugin for X-Plane 12 that pops up "Landing rate: Ryanair" whenever you land.... Because that's pretty much all my landings.😂
Liked already while te add was playing 😂
😂😂😂👍
Hello Emmanuel, hope you are having a good day. I just wanted to know when do airline pilots generally engage the autopilot after take off, because i've always hand flown the aircraft for a long time after t/o but i'm not 100% sure if thats how real pilots do it.
Everyone basically does it different. Personally I usually fly until FL150 or so. Others engage it at 100ft AAL.
Legally the AP needs to be on as soon as you enter RVSM airspace, which mostly starts at FL285.
Thanks
I have been wondering, do the PAPI in MSFS (and IRL) may be set for a different glide path than 3 degrees?
IRL they are set to the angle published in the charts. In MSFS they are a mess anyway.
If you did an approach like this in real life, what do you do if you get a sink rate warning? Do you have to go around?
According to someone I know who is involved in aviation the answer is no. He says the warning just means the sinkrate is unacceptable for the moment, but if it can be corrected it is fine
If the warning comes below the stable gate it’s a mandatory go around as the approach is unstable. Above the gate you take corrective action as needed.
@@A330Driver is that a SOP thing or general for all aircraft? The person I know works for a big European airline that operates a320‘s and he told me what I’ve said
@@Jannik_SteinThat’s what is directly said in the FCOM and the memory items. For a Sink Rate caution above 1000ft in IMC or 500 in VMC it tells you to adjust the flight path, below those altitudes a Go Around is mandatory.
And a PULL UP is a definite terrain escape manouver, no questions asked.
I have Flow Pro which shows your decent rate after landing.
Wish I hadn't 😂
My first flight with the Vulcan showed 1450 fpm 😅😅😅
Haha, as mentioned, „the smoothness if a landing does not play into the judgement of a good landing“ (Boeing).
Though the reusability of the plane certainly does 😅
Flow’s landing widget is strange. It’s almost always vastly different from my volanta readout. As I said in another reply, all I aim for now is a G of 1.1 or less
I've actually tried 3 different landing rate apps running at once, and all 3 give different results, if you count PACX, then 4 different results. The swings between them are huge so basically all worthless.
And I'm not obsessed with landings, I just suspected all along that these apps are bullshit.
Yeah, for a reason I don’t know it seems particularly hard to catch the right moment of touchdown in the sim.
As the old saying goes: "a good landing is one you can walk away from; a great landing is one where you can use the plane again."
And after an excellent landings your passengers will even book the airline again? 😂
Lol
Any landing you can walk away from, is a good landing IMHO.
True that - but don’t we all strive for excellent landings? 😄
@@A330Driver Absolutely 👍
My humble opinion:
Impressive touchdown 10/10,
the approach however was quite high both on the ILS and the PAPIs for a long time 7/10,
so in total 8,5/10.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be able to do it anywhere near as good as you.
Hey mate, let’s be serious. This video isn’t about achieving a perfect 10/10 landing. It’s about teaching us how to rate our landings, which is valuable information that you’d usually have to pay for in real life. If the aim was to demonstrate a perfect landing, I assure you that Emanuel has the capability to land with precision similar to an autopilot, not just here, but anywhere in the world. However, when you’re trying to explain something, your focus is on teaching and explaining multiple aspects, not just achieving perfection. Let’s appreciate the educational value of this content.
Couldn’t have said it any better @fly737
Yes, I agree (as I even said). However that wasn't my point.@@Fly737
One thing I find bizarre is that often the papi show 4 whites while, visually and in GP/LOC I’m good.. this is misleading..
Check this out czcams.com/video/kucERBQMVl4/video.htmlsi=TLJicmMUS-GHjcW6
Manuel, of all real pilots out there, perhaps the fans and communities would be joking at your "smooth touch down" argument because of your previous employer 😋
Anyway, smooth touch down is great and all, I just feel like it is a bit too excessive chasing after "butter touchdown" on a very limited short runway. I'm happy with MSFS finally telling people to aim for the T/D zone.
You can do smooth touchdowns if conditions permit and all other criteria is met. I kinda like how the saying „to go the extra mile for your customer“ becomes quite literal with this however. Or should I say „to float the extra mile“? 😂
my landings... on the runway.. thats a result.
😂😂👍
thanks ....now i feel less of a slave to satisfying the landing tool
My landing is 5/10
6.28 seconds
well it could have been a little softer. I give it an 8/10
*let the record speak, I meant this to come out as sarcasm
A soft landing is not always a good (or rather safe) landing.
It could. But then I would have to waste runway length for an increased flare. Is that a good idea on 1800m of runway? Certainly not. You can do these things if you’ve got 3km of runway ahead of you. That’s why I choose this particular one runway for today’s video.
Yeah, you totally missed the whole point of this whole vid
The guy didn’t get the whole point of the video.