Does Guitar Speaker Size Matter? Lets Plug A 1x10 Combo Into A 4x12 Cab
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In today's video Paul and James from The Studio Rats plug in James's new/old Rivera Pubster with a 10" speaker and wonder why they don't like the sound of it. After plugging in a marshall 4x12 it completely changes the character of the amp.
The Studio Rats are core band members Paul Drew on guitar/production/mixing, drummer James Ivey and Dan Hawkins on bass. They collaborate with singers and musicians to produce radio-ready songs. - Hudba
Excellent! 12’s it certainly is! Have settled on 2x12” cabs as sweet spot between sound and portability.
Myself as well....but not a big fan of the V30's but they mix good with a cream back 65 and other higher wattage speakers Some say there's a difference between the old ones and new ones so ?? I like alnico and am using a Mojo Tone open back cab w two old(1973) Vox goldbacks Love it but thinking about getting a panel for the back to get that Marshall vibe when using an M type circuit Fender open back... Marshall close back
I love 10’s. Used an ‘85 Marshall 2203 with a 4x10 cab for years. Still sounds killer. More punchy less flubby.
Hell yeah! I have had a Peavey 410 Ultratube amp for YEARS and I absolutely LOVE it. I play a lot of punk, and the 10s really make palm muting hit much harder than 12s. And for blues and jazz it has amazing clarity.
410 is a good cab. A single 10 is not
@@stringlocker I play a lot of punk on stage and you can feel those 4x10s slam, especially when palm muting.
I have developed a preference for 10's. I only play at home and they sound better in that context. A good 10 inch speaker seems ideal to me. I am a fan of early electric blues, so small combos are a sound I like.
I agree 100%. I have an old Marshall 1x10 combo, and I always thought it didn’t sound great. I plugged it into a 12” cab with an alnico cream, and suddenly the amp screamed. The speaker makes such a huge difference
That 65 w creamback is awesome
Marshalls should stay in their wheelhouse they should stop making combos. In 60 years they never figured out how to get all that sound into a combo.
This is a good demo of how important the speaker/cab is in your setup
This is not, however, a good demo of whether a 10" or 12" speaker is better 🙂
of late, I've been using an ancient Mesopotamian cauliflower as my speaker. it sounds glorious with my Gibson Parsnip plugged straight into it. all my cables are made of liquoice and my pedal board when I use it has 6 overdriven sprouts and a vine ripened tomato in the effects loop.
An organic tone enthusiast...well done, sir!
This method of demo for speaker size comparison really only applies to recording. All you’re really hearing with close-mic comparisons is the difference between a single 10 in an open back context and a single 12 in a large closed back context. We don’t hear the massive difference that you would hear standing in the room. Standing in front of *four* 12s, in a huge closed cab is vastly different than standing in front of a single 10 in a small cab, and its even vastly different than hearing a single 12 recorded close up. I always feel like these kinds of shootouts are not complete unless you throw in some examples of sounds recorded from a room mic, which are also an imperfect representation of the real sound in person, but are still helpful.
Absolutely agreed: It's the combination of the speaker(s) and the cabinet that makes all the difference. But from my experience, the exact same speaker will sound different in a different cabinet. Even at the risk of repeating myself:Your channel is outstanding and so is your guitar tone and Paul's playing!
I had the Bogner 1x12 cab w/ a V30 speaker a few years ago. It sounded like a mini-4x12 cab. I think the 10" sounds much different than a 12" AND it's open back, and that makes just as big of a difference, if not more.
I agree this amp sounds better through the 4x12 but I sure do love a 2x10 Vibrolux.
A 2-10 is so much different from a 110
James we see you less often on the channel but it's so fun to have you on the show and hell, you know a lot about guitar stuff! Love u guys♥️♥️
I own a Pubster I bought it long time ago.
The internal speaker is an O.E.M. Eminence somebody says similar a Red Coat model.
I did some mods to improve to my taste the sound.
First now the speaker is a Patriot series Raging cajun.
Second the valves there were two 12ax7 Sovtek, a short and a long grid, now I put in a TAD 12ax7-c and a groove tubes 12ax7-c the 6v6 are a couple of EHX.
Same thing is true on Modelers. And, if you lower the High Cut on the Speaker Cab Block to around 4-5kHz, you'll get a frequency response of a typical Guitar Speaker, and a better/more realistic "Amp" tone.
that's what the IR already does. it's literally a frequency response curve of a speaker. i have no idea where this high cut craze came from and why people buy into it so much, normal ranges for low pass filters on a mic'd cab (which, again, sounds no different than if you were to make an IR of that same setup) are 12-14k to take out some mic hiss that would clog up the cymbals. except for some reason the helix community thinks they have to make everything super muffled cause the old cab models were crap. that's not realistic in the slightest. at 10k most speakers only drop off by around 15db.
@@givemeajackson For those who don't use IR's and who are having difficulty dialing out excessive highs, harshness, and fizziness in a Line 6 Helix Preset, the Cab Block High Cut is a simple and effective way to deal with that, and it is easily reversible.
If you installed 10" speakers of different types and manufacturers in the Rivera case, you'd hear differences. Same if you tried different 12" speakers in the cab, and you might find that one particular 10" speaker sounded good in the combo. As a gigging guitarist, I prefer to carry the bare minimum, so it's a one-speaker combo for me, either miked up or DI'd to the PA. For many years, a 1980s Sessionette 75, 1 x 12", and more recently, a Fender BDR, also 1 x 12" but in a much bigger box. The Sessionette was very directional, and I suspect a 10" speaker would be worse, but going into the PA that's less of an issue.
Had Rivera Chubster(that is not a misspelling), it had a 12" Celestion made for Rivera. It was obviously a cheap speaker it had a small magnet. Replaced it with a Vintage 30 it made a vast improvement in tone. Never used 10" speakers until recently got a Marshall Origin combo with a Celestion V type speaker. What a junk speaker, all high-end, no bass response whatsoever. Pulled it and got a Greenback, and what a difference. I can't believe so many companies use those V Type speakers in their amps. Speakers are such an important part of your amps sound.
Agreed. Put an EVM12L in my R fifty five-twelve. Remarkable improvement over the black/white 85w celestion
Sounds killer with the Marshall 4x12. I think that 4x12 is the same size as my apartment.
Could you please do a video going through how you get your basic tone? It’s freaking amazing…
Will do.
I wholeheartedly agree about the amazing tone.
It's more like a Mesa Mark V but the Carvin V3M (head or 1x12 combo) is a VERY versatile three-channel 50W tube amp. Mine has a V30 in it and it goes from a screaming JTM45 on the clean to all the filth you want on one of the two dirt channels. I was able to pick up a pristine combo for under $500.
Couldn't agree more, my V3M is my main gig amp for years and it's wonderful, I have other amps and cannot think in something better or more versatile.❤
Outstanding!! and an interesting observation about the directionality of the Marshall 4x12 cab. Every speaker array produces a dispersion pattern. the 4 x 12 focuses to center, and projects sound to the back row. If running a 2 x 12 horizontal (such as a fender twin reverb) the dispersion focuses horizontally, and disperses vertically.. so your top end decreases a lot off-axis horizontally! Here's a nifty trick, try a vertical 2 x 12 cab (Fender Twin on end) and immediately you get audience coverage horizontally, AND projection to the back row on the vertical plane. The same occurs with a Marshall 1960 cab in "Stereo" but running only one side... a 2 x 12 vertical array. A full stack, then, on one side would be a 4 x 12 vertical line array, an awesome way to get audience coverage to the sides (good top end) and project (focus) to the back row on the vertical plane.
One 10” speaker is always going to pale compared 4x12. So will one 12”, so long as the speakers compared are similar.
Try a Marshall 1965a/b 4x10 cab with either the stock G10l35s or 10” greenbacks and then you’ll have the best of both worlds. Portability and will still move enough air to hit you right in the chest with the benefit of being less flubby and mix friendly. Best guitar cabs ever!
When we listen to the speakers close-mic'd, both 10'' and 12'' speakers can sound good. But in the room it's different. I've had a Blackstar HT5R MKII, which has a 12'' speaker. That amp has got great reviews and users seem to like it a lot. To me, it was always underwhelming. When I got the Marshall DSL20CR, I liked it more, and the Blackstar Artist 15 sounds even bigger. The cabinet size matters too even on combo speakers.
I can definitely see the Rivera being useful. I don't personally have preferences, but just to be sure I try to go 12'' rather than 10''. But I guess it also depends on the amp itself and if the speakers fit well.
My ear always gravitates to the 12" inch sound. When asked what setup I like, it's always the 12" inch speaker setup that wins out. Even against 4 x 10" cab. Just something more it it, deeper, bass voicing.
I play through a victory amps combo, with a 12” Celestion Creamback. When we were coming up to recording, I popped the equivalent 10” Celestion Creamback in, to do my back a favour. The sound was shockingly similar, but it understandably had nowhere near the volume - not enough for rehearsing or gigging with the 1x10. I was entirely happy with the tone and did the album with it though: Shameless plug: This Quiet Fall “Counter” if you want to hear a 10” Celestion Creamback in action.
I dislike 10’s. I’m prejudice ever since trying the Hot Rod Deluxe & Hot Rod DeVille. The Hot Rod Deluxe 112 sounds better than the DeVille 410
Love it guys
Just shows that the speakers and to some extent the cabinet makes a huge difference.
It is likely why I always liked heads so you can chose whichever cab you like.
This sounds crazy but I only own 2 combos. One Roland micro cube for little practice.
Also I bought a Little crate G15 transistor 8inch combo made in USA for £20 last year.
I read if you use an external cab it can send really good as a cleanish amp
I had a Rivera 55 combo and also the Rivera designed Fender Princeton Reverb II (10 inch speaker), lovely cleans, not so convincing boost sounds. Missing bottom end it got quite in your face. The Rivera was a nice amp, but I disliked the 12'' speaker. After I paired the amp with a Mesa Thiele ported cab, it got better, so I did not replace it. I moved on to Rockerverbs MKI 50 heads. Played years with sometimes quite heavy 2x12 cabs, so I wanted a more portable set up. I got a my hands on a Italian made The Valve ported cab with a British made Celestion V30. It sounds big. I did a lot of open air gigs with it. It delivers the goodies. If you don't want to lift heavy cabs, a ported 1x12 cab can be a relief and surprise in one.
I tend to prefer "12s in general but there are times where the "10s excel, like the Vibrolux or that kind of audio. That Tele is gorgeous! btw great review!
Thank you from bottom of my heart for this video. I bought my Rivera amp last year and always wondered what is sounded like though a big cab. It’s an incredible amplifier and I love it
I love 12" speakers, but I love 10" speakers - and truth be told I have some 8" speakers that are absolutely awesome.
I have been using my Peavey Classic 30 in to a 5150 straight cab for a long time, the same way. It had horrible tube/ chassis rattle, that solved my issue. 🤘👍have a great day.
The rivera sounds amazing
The difference in in the field of audio. Near field frequencies will be better but full range it’ll sound muddy.
depends on what amp you use. The two rock pro 35 combo is what ive settled on for many years now and I don't miss the 12 inch speaker ive had before
Big difference between 1-10 and 2 or 4 tens 4/10's is excellent and not too bad to haul around
Guys, I am sure you have a small commercial woodshop nearby or know someone who's a good hobbyist woodworker/carpenter that could quite easily take that Rivera Pubster combo and neatly cut it down and fix it back up as a smaller head-only unit for use in a stack with whatever extension cab you'd like. I could do it for a quite reasonable price and it would look like it came from the factory that way but Dallas is a bit far off from you, innit?
I just bought the head version, has reverb issues and no footswitch, but I got it for $529. It sounds fantastic though. I bought a Mesa 2x10 cab to go with it. :)
I am so stuck on 412's. I don't even like any IR's.. I love the feel and sounds too much for 412's. I have tried many times to walk away.. but I keep coming back..even at low practice volumes.
Those who rock salute you!
@@Adventuresingearland about a year ago, I decided to buy 3 more 412's. I have 5 now. A couple with V30's, one with Greenback 25's. One X patterned, and the last with Creamback 75's. Although I may mix something with those soon..
4x12s have a nice space and depth to them even at low volumes. They sound way better than a single 1x12.
@@crsantin yes.. the perfect cab
I have a boss IR-200 and I gravitate towards pairing 412 cabs with every amp model. Just a different depth with them.
Cool, that takes things in a new direction...thanks guys!
The 4x12 is going to push much more air. So yes it's going to sound fuller. It's like setting in front of a 10 inch fan on a hot day vs setting in frond of 4 12 in fans. Which do you think cools better. lol
well said
TOTALLY agree Paul. 12" all the way in a performance amp
I like 10's in the right setting. Love it in my VOX AC-10.
Have a Marshall Class 5 that sounds boxy and small with the internal 10” speaker. Completely different beast going through my 2x12 cabinet (Eminence GB12 and Legend 128). Similarly, found a Fender Princeton with a 12” Celestion Creamback and bought it on the spot.
Old gear prices over there seem to be much better than on this side of the pond. What I wouldn't give for a 1960A cab loaded with vintage Celestion speakers for $200-250 UDS.
I really need to know the answer to this. Lol.
I have a couple 5 watt tube amps that I want to play through sealed cabs. Trying to go to a complete analog system (boost, delay, modulation and distortion) that I can drive with low watt tube amps and into a DAW. Have a katana that I can also use the power amp and USB for recording.
I have always gravitated towards a 4x10 cab. Tighter and articulate
Classic rhythm 4x12s
Roar. Beautiful, Classic, Beautiful cleans, but showing that flex with just bit of Crack, of course. First time hearing you too! First of Beautiful, Stufff, lovely stuff - BUT, something overall would have loved to have been. Givin' 'im, all the same leads and just, overall everything exactly as it was the else vs 10" cab so could hear a more true versus and actual, versus, comparison. But I could't but say for the playing alone HA HA!
I'm sure that you're having a different experience with the cabinet in the room. Over the internet there isn't the same kind of difference. The 10" has a nice mid range. The 4×12 sounds more scooped. If I crank the volume of your video both sound big...just with different frequency emphasis
Update: now my Pubster 25 has Celestion G10 Greenback speaker now it's a rock n roll machine no brittle
seriously, what do you expect - the 4x12 moves more air than a singe 10 inch. And it's a Rivera after all. there is a speaker comparison video on the rivera I believe
Love these comparison videos I have an old Custom Shop 100 watt Tonemaster and would love to see a show on the Bruce Zinky designed custom shop amps Or even a show on the different custom shop designer's that Fender has used over the years Might be only Rivera and Zinky but not really sure.....12 ALL THE WAY FOR ME on this episode Cheers
That sounded immense. All it needs is a woolly sock!
Great sounding amp through the 4x12. Paul’s playing tho 🤤🤟🏻🎸🤟🏻
IMHO, Speakers are the most overlooked component in the signal chain, and it could be argued maybe the most important.
Speakers are like tires, you can have the best sports car with the best driver, and without great tires it is all for not.
Just saying, speakers and your cabinet are pretty darned important.
Oh yeah I almost forgot that amp sounds frigging GREAT
Nice studio there James. Great comparison too.
I like how it has wheels on it. So cute.
The only exception I make for 10” speakers is the Fender Reverb and that’s it.
WOW man 😳.that sounds amazing
My Vox mini super beetle run into a 2 x 12 the minute you play a string you get feedback doesn’t matter the guitar. It just doesn’t work unless you play it into the provided one by 10 which is a bummer because through headphones it sounds great.
Strange that feedback is determined by speaker size.
Always enjoyed my RI Fender '59 narrow panel Bassman...
4X10's = Punchy and focused😉👍
I just subscribed based on you're playing and tone as soon as the 12" speaker kicked in. 😊
From Leo: I have a Fender twin and my buddy plays guitar through a 4 x 10 Bassman. He certainly gets some great tones. Neither is better or worse, just different.
The 12 sounds cleaner and more open to me!
I was going to say make it a head and I thought no I’ll get shot down. But that’s exactly what you two were thinking.
I don't like 10" speakers either. I like 12" in 2x12 or 4x12. I cannot stand 1x12 cabinets. But better yet I like 15" Speakers. And sometimes mixed with a 12"'s in second cab.
little difference between the 2, love em all , including 8" , the smaller speakers have a little more highs and are puncher but 12" can have lots of highs and punch as well ....
Don’t mod the amp. The 10” speaker sounds better miked up, the 12” is lacking presence so will require EQ’ing for a mix. Combining the two should sound incredible.
I love my Marshall head thru the 2x12 slant cab.
But my Katana 50, even in comparison, ain’t too bad.
Older combos of yesteryear were not good tho.
Done with overdrive pedals 😆 for the moment next purchase will be a speaker cab
The Bass sounds richer and the Highs more smooth and singy with a 12" speaker.
10' works good for Bass Guitar for the same reason it does not for Guitar. It takes out the Low Lows and adds punch & accents the highs.
Question. Does the fact that both speakers were close mic'd negate the difference between a small open back combo enclosure and a closed back 4x12 enclosure?
Did you also know that the volume dial works as an extra gain stage when in the boost channel
What speakers are in that 4x12? When I got mine, it had 4 G12T-75s and I never really liked it. Too scooped, too harsh in the highs.
Now I have 2 V30s and 2 H-75 Creambacks in X pattern in it and it's a completely different animal (it weights quite a bit more too ;). Now it sounds glorious!
FWIW, I never liked 10" speakers either for guitar.
Sounds fantastic, lads.
James, what will you be using for amp switching? I have the Ampete. With the number of different amps and cabs you have now, it would be interesting to see what they all sound like mixed and matched. 👍🏽
i don't like 1x10 but 4x10 sounds killer.
Love you guys!!!If I may,please?Review amps with no pedal or effects,unless it's a Marshall code 50'nudge,nudge,' effects make the speaker LIE LOL
Have you guys tried the speakers in combination?
I have a Mesa Boogie Mark IV combo with the 12" black widow speaker. I'm interested in getting an extension cab. Boogie makes matching cabs in either 1x12 or 2x10 formats. Could I blend the single 12 with two 10s?
Real nice tube amps sound good through a 4-12. But combos with the added bass do not work through a 412. For example a blackstar it ends up being too bassy
So a 1x12 cab would be more like which one?
It sounds superb. What Tele are you using there, I don’t recognize it, looks and sounds great. Also Paul, are you running thru your entire pedal board, ie what tube screamer are you using? Everything sounds excellent and great playing too Paul!!
Conventional wisdom is that a 4x12 cab is going to sound better than a 1x12 even with with the same speaker, much less a 1x10.
Fuzzy Fenderesque goodness.
Why are these guys so mesmerised with overdrive? Do they like a lot of noise, for thats what it is.
apologies if it was discussed but what speakers are in the cab?
Hi James & Paul: sounds awesome through the Marshall 4x12: what speakers are in it ? Cheers
4x12 vs in cab 1x10?
How about 4x12 vs 4x 10
Are all 4 speakers running? How many ohms are the required settings?
Would be interesting to hear a different internal speaker in the Rivera but that’s a bit of a Rabbit hole lol.
It's resonating with me more and more that the speaker is the difference between a good tone and a really great tone.
Can anyone recommend a good 2 x12 cab that isn't ridiculously high priced? UK if possible?
Get a second hand Marshall 1922
@@TheStudioRats - Thank you so much. Your channel is amazing. Can't believe I've only recently discovered it.
Comparing a cheap 10" speaker in a cheap amp (360 cost) into a large marhsall cab (which costs more than the whole combo amp) with good speakers isn't an honest comparison of speaker size but a comparison of quality components on tone.
I think you missed the point of the video but going back to your comment, you’ll find you can pick up a Marshall 4x12 in the UK for less than £100. The combo costs a lot more than that.
Which Marshall Cabinet is that one ?
Would like to hear it through a 2x10.
yes
What's the Impendence of the amp and cab?
You probably heard it the thousand times but I can’t resist: guy on the right looks like fucking David Bowie clone! 😅
What speakers are in the cab? I have Celestion 75 and they sound not so great. Lol
uh, their is a difference between a pub and a bar in north America, we have both. lol
Marshall cabs have always been great at ripping heads off!!!
Sounds like through a 212 cabinet
Compare to a 4 x 10 Marshall cab . . . . .
A no name 10th against a Marshall 4x12, yes that looks fair! It should be one 10th against one 12th same company, same model.
Hard to beat a good 4x12 cab.